Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Heartly concur John. Count me as a bander who has both noted this and had research muddled by such exact descriptions. john -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat On Thu, January 15, 2015 16:03, John Confer wrote: HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com mailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Hopefully this is not taking this outside the interest of many on the list but: I am curious to know the evidence on reduced nesting success in goshawks, in part because it is really important to know what such evidence would look like. John, can you direct those of us who might want to follow up to publications, people, organizations? Thanks, Anne On Jan 16, 2015, at 2:07 PM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote: Heartly concur John. Count me as a bander who has both noted this and had research muddled by such exact descriptions. john -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat On Thu, January 15, 2015 16:03, John Confer wrote: HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com mailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
As a follow-up to Anne's request, I'd also love to hear about any evidence showing that Goshawks are on territory in January, and that flushing from low cover is a typical behavior of a Goshawk on territory and susceptible to disturbance. -Scott On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Anne Clark anneb.cl...@gmail.com wrote: Hopefully this is not taking this outside the interest of many on the list but: I am curious to know the evidence on reduced nesting success in goshawks, in part because it is really important to know what such evidence would look like. John, can you direct those of us who might want to follow up to publications, people, organizations? Thanks, Anne On Jan 16, 2015, at 2:07 PM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote: Heartly concur John. Count me as a bander who has both noted this and had research muddled by such exact descriptions. john -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat On Thu, January 15, 2015 16:03, John Confer wrote: HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com mailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
I'm just suggesting that an overdoes of caution for the sake of a species that is known to be adverse to human disturbance is worth considering. The evidence for goshawk nest abandonment that I know about is limited but real. I doubt that at this time of year that there would be any impact on reproductive success, but a visit in ~April-May might have an impact. 40 years ago Dorothy McIlroy described to me one goshawk nest that was abandoned while the birds were on eggs and 30 years ago John Snelling, a former grad student of Tom Cade, with a strong interest in raptors, also described such an instance. John Gregoire, below, added another instance(s). This doesn't approach the sample size for a publication. There is data for golden-wings that the number fledged per nest is lower for renests, but that comes from pooling nearly a dozen major studies of GWWA reproductive success, including a half-dozen PhDs, and is detectable only with a sample size of on the order of 500 nests. This won't happen for goshawk. So what we have is anecdotal. Since my information on goshawk is old and very personal and not generally known among the public, I wanted to make the gentle suggestion that for birds swuch as ravens and goshawk or similar birds with individual pairs that can be adversely affected by human presence that the location of (potential) territories and/or nests is probably not a good thing to share. It is interesting that within a species there may be pairs that are acclimated to human presence and pairs that don';t often contact humans and may over-react' to human intrusion. This the consequence of visiting a nest or entering a territory is unpredictable. Cheers, John On 1/16/2015 2:17 PM, Anne Clark wrote: Hopefully this is not taking this outside the interest of many on the list but: I am curious to know the evidence on reduced nesting success in goshawks, in part because it is really important to know what such evidence would look like. John, can you direct those of us who might want to follow up to publications, people, organizations? Thanks, Anne On Jan 16, 2015, at 2:07 PM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote: Heartly concur John. Count me as a bander who has both noted this and had research muddled by such exact descriptions. john -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat On Thu, January 15, 2015 16:03, John Confer wrote: HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com mailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:*
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
John C., I'm still trying to figure out how we know Goshawks to be adverse to human disturbance. Anecdotal evidence is nice, as is your research on Golden-winged Warblers, but actual cited research on Northern Goshawks reports the following: *Disturbances associated with research are usually of short duration, apparently having little impact on nesting birds. Viewing nests for short periods after young have hatched does not cause desertion. Trapping adults during nesting for banding or attaching transmitters apparently does not cause abandonment. The percentage of nesting pairs with radios that successfully raised young (83%, n = 8, 1988–1989) was similar to those without radios (82%, n = 10, 1987–1990; Austin 1993 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib018). Timbering activities near nests can cause failure, especially during incubation (Anonymous 1989 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib013, Boal and Mannan 1994 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib034). Logging activities, such as loading and skidding, within 50–100 m of nest can cause abandonment, even with 20-d-old nestlings present (JRS). However, see Zirrer (1947 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib242) for descriptions of repeated renesting attempts despite extreme disturbance.* My takeaway from that is that unless someone starts logging/timbering at Foster Pond, I think Josh's goshawk will be fine, even if a few folks decide to go take a look for it. This is not a situation comparable to something like a roosting owl's location being posted, since there's no evidence at all that the goshawk will even remain at this exact location any longer than the single day on which Josh observed it. According to more research cited in the BNA account, the earliest-ever recorded date of this species being paired up and on territory is late February, and mid-March to early April is much more common. Exercising caution for the sake of leaving rare or poorly-known birds undisturbed is one thing, but I think it's also worth not immediately rushing to chastise and scold new contributors for their sightings, without any legitimate evidence that their reports will have any negative impact on said birds. -Scott On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:54 PM, John Confer con...@ithaca.edu wrote: I'm just suggesting that an overdoes of caution for the sake of a species that is known to be adverse to human disturbance is worth considering. The evidence for goshawk nest abandonment that I know about is limited but real. I doubt that at this time of year that there would be any impact on reproductive success, but a visit in ~April-May might have an impact. 40 years ago Dorothy McIlroy described to me one goshawk nest that was abandoned while the birds were on eggs and 30 years ago John Snelling, a former grad student of Tom Cade, with a strong interest in raptors, also described such an instance. John Gregoire, below, added another instance(s). This doesn't approach the sample size for a publication. There is data for golden-wings that the number fledged per nest is lower for renests, but that comes from pooling nearly a dozen major studies of GWWA reproductive success, including a half-dozen PhDs, and is detectable only with a sample size of on the order of 500 nests. This won't happen for goshawk. So what we have is anecdotal. Since my information on goshawk is old and very personal and not generally known among the public, I wanted to make the gentle suggestion that for birds swuch as ravens and goshawk or similar birds with individual pairs that can be adversely affected by human presence that the location of (potential) territories and/or nests is probably not a good thing to share. It is interesting that within a species there may be pairs that are acclimated to human presence and pairs that don';t often contact humans and may over-react' to human intrusion. This the consequence of visiting a nest or entering a territory is unpredictable. Cheers, John On 1/16/2015 2:17 PM, Anne Clark wrote: Hopefully this is not taking this outside the interest of many on the list but: I am curious to know the evidence on reduced nesting success in goshawks, in part because it is really important to know what such evidence would look like. John, can you direct those of us who might want to follow up to publications, people, organizations? Thanks, Anne On Jan 16, 2015, at 2:07 PM, John and Sue Gregoire wrote: Heartly concur John. Count me as a bander who has both noted this and had research muddled by such exact descriptions. john -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Foster Pond is a small parking lot on the left Side Of Potomac Rd going north from 227. It is not in the CLB but in the SLB. -- John and Sue Gregoire Field Ornithologists Kestrel Haven Avian Migration Observatory 5373 Fitzgerald Road Burdett,NY 14818-9626 N 42 26.611' W 76 45.492' Website: http://www.empacc.net/~kestrelhaven/ Conserve and Create Habitat On Thu, January 15, 2015 11:14, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Foster Pond is in Finger Lakes National Forest. It probably is not in the basin. But I have not looked at the details where the water flows! Here is the map with Foster Pond! http://www.cnyhiking.com/FingerLakesNationalForest.htm Meena From: bounce-118706019-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-118706019-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Scott Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 11:15 AM To: Joshua Snodgrass Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co. Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.commailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and Leave Archives: The Mail Archive Surfbirds BirdingOnThe.Net Please submit your observations to eBird! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Oh I forgot to point where the pond is on the map. It is close to the yellow box “see inset A” but on the left hand side adjoining the black dotted line in the center of the map! From: bounce-118706019-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-118706019-3493...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Donna Scott Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 11:15 AM To: Joshua Snodgrass Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co. Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.commailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basicshttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Informationhttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leavehttp://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm Archives: The Mail Archivehttp://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirdshttp://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Nethttp://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBirdhttp://ebird.org/content/ebird/! -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
Thank you both for the pointers. Had this been a nesting bird, I certainly would have used more discretion. I hadn't considered the possibility of disturbance to a possible future nesting site. This is the first rare bird I've discovered and posted about. The last thing I want is for it to be disturbed or scared off. Good birding Josh On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Kevin J. McGowan k...@cornell.edu wrote: Concern for animal welfare is always worth considering. However, it seems climbing to nests is quite different than observing a bird. In some circumstances, crows will abandon nests with chicks if someone climbs to the nest. Here is what the BNA account says: *Sensitivity To Disturbance At Nest And Roost Sites * Timbering activities near nests can cause failure, especially during incubation (Anonymous 1989 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib013, Boal and Mannan 1994 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib034). Logging activities, such as loading and skidding, within 50–100 m of nest can cause abandonment, even with 20-d-old nestlings present (JRS). However, see Zirrer (1947 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib242) for descriptions of repeated renesting attempts despite extreme disturbance. Camping near nests has also caused failures (*n* = 2; Speiser 1992 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib202 ). *Research Impacts * Disturbances associated with research are usually of short duration, apparently having little impact on nesting birds. Viewing nests for short periods after young have hatched does not cause desertion. Trapping adults during nesting for banding or attaching transmitters apparently does not cause abandonment. The percentage of nesting pairs with radios that successfully raised young (83%, *n* = 8, 1988–1989) was similar to those without radios (82%, *n* = 10, 1987–1990; Austin 1993 http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/298/articles/species/298/biblio/bib018 ). I don’t see a pressing concern here, personally. Kevin *From:* bounce-118707197-3493...@list.cornell.edu [mailto: bounce-118707197-3493...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *John Confer *Sent:* Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:04 PM *To:* Donna Scott; Joshua Snodgrass *Cc:* CAYUGABIRDS-L *Subject:* Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co. HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http
Re: [cayugabirds-l] Northern Goshawk Fingerlakes National Forest, Schuyler Co.
HI Folks, The barn door is open or the cat is out of the bag, BUT I HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT DESCRIBING LOCATIONS OF N GOSHAWK WHEN THEY ACT SOMEWHAT AS IF THEY HAD A TERRITORY. Northern Goshawk are known among banders who climb to hawk nests to frequently abandon a nest, especially early in the nesting cycle, although not so much after the young have hatched.Individual birds can become accustomed to human disturbance at a low level and provide an exception. Other birds that rarely see humans may well abandon a nest if disturbed. At this time of year, they probably haven't started laying and, even if the bird is considering nesting nearby, at this time of the year the bird might just move away. However, if they did start to nest and someone visited the well described site a couple months from now, the bird might abandon eggs. I know there is an excitement in seeing a good bird, and it is very nice to share providing a very good motivation to share a siting with others, e.g., the Schofield Short-eared Owls, which do not seem to be at all disturbed by humans watching them in a car. Other species of birds may have reduced nesting success if people visit them, and goshawk are known to be so affected. Discretion in individual circumstances is advised. Cheers, John On 1/15/2015 11:14 AM, Donna Scott wrote: Where is Foster Pond, please? Sent from my iPhone Donna Scott On Jan 14, 2015, at 6:19 PM, Joshua Snodgrass cedarsh...@gmail.com mailto:cedarsh...@gmail.com wrote: I went birding at Foster Pond this afternoon, because high twenties feels like spring compared to the last few days. Past the frozen pond and down Backbone trail I ventured into the brushy field to get a better look at some waxwings when I flushed a Northern Goshawk from low cover. Life Bird! She (I'm guessing based on the size) perched in a small tree and posed for a long time. Excellent views. Adult with a bright eyestripe. I took pictures until my hands and toes went numb. She never flew away. As I was returning to the trail two Common Ravens flew over calling. Awesome Day! Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/16096262487/in/photostream/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/123875591@N03/15662257883/in/photostream/ Sorry I didn't post earlier, but I have a dumb phone. Good birding! Josh -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* Welcome and Basics http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME Rules and Information http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES Subscribe, Configuration and Leave http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm *Archives:* The Mail Archive http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html Surfbirds http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds BirdingOnThe.Net http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html *Please submit your observations to eBird http://ebird.org/content/ebird/!* -- -- Cayugabirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/cayugabirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/CAYU.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --attachment: confer.vcf
