Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-22 Thread Ethan A Merritt
Thank you Randy and Pavel for correcting my failure to find an appropriate tool in my mental toolbox. I was thinking too much in terms of examining a difference map rather than a performing a resolution-dependent analysis of Fo;Fc agreement. Is there a straight-forward way to extract what Hunter

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-22 Thread Hunter Moseley
Randy, Use of correlation makes normalization superfluous, but as you say it cannot distinguish from the causes of deviation which may not just be missing density. Pavel, Thanks for the reference. Will look at it more closely. But how is the error being separated into separate error components

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-22 Thread Pavel Afonine
Hi, Is there a straight-forward way to estimate the amount of missing electron > density that a particular protein structure is missing based on the > difference between Fo and Fc? > Any refinement or map calculation software that uses likelihood-based approach does this routinely. In

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-22 Thread Randy Read
Hi, I rarely disagree with Ethan, but there are in fact ways of getting some idea of how much of the ordered structure from your crystal is missing in your model. It's not based on the difference between Fo and Fc but rather more on the correlation between them and how that varies as a

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-22 Thread Francis Reyes
This is a good point, the difference between Fo and Fc can be great if Fc is actually missing (an 'incomplete' structure). And of course this wreaks havok in defining the maskf for bulk solvent, and refinement, etc. Incomplete can be missing whole parts of the protein (say in model building) or

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-21 Thread Hunter Moseley
Ethan and Phil, Your responses about i) normalization based on minimizing the average differences between Fobs and Fcalc and ii) the smearing of electron density by various physical phenomena, makes sense. The smearing cannot easily be accounted for and having density, where it should not be, can

Re: [ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-21 Thread Ethan A Merritt
On Tuesday, 21 February, 2017 16:53:06 Hunter Moseley wrote: > Is there a straight-forward way to estimate the amount of missing electron > density that a particular protein structure is missing based on the > difference between Fo and Fc? Short answer: no. > It appears that the normalization

[ccp4bb] Estimating the amount of missing electron density for a model

2017-02-21 Thread Hunter Moseley
Is there a straight-forward way to estimate the amount of missing electron density that a particular protein structure is missing based on the difference between Fo and Fc? It appears that the normalization of the Fc due to the employing of a maximum entropy method that keeps Fo and Fc comparable