Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-26 Thread Navdeep Sidhu
PS: There's also a very nice book edited by Peter Mueller with guided tutorials and example data (ranging from the simple to more complex cases), if you'd like to check it out at some point: Crystal Structure Refinement - A Crystallographer's Guide to SHELXL by Peter Müller, Regine

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread Tim Gruene
Dear David, I dare claim that rather you do not know how to use the listed programs in the case for small molecule data rather than none of them were optimised. E.g. 10degree frames loose all the possible accuracy in the phi-direction so I am not surprised you had trouble indexing. There is no

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread Felix Frolow
Dear Tim, I am sure your statement is too general and is not very precise. 10 deg oscillation range is as precise as 0.1 deg. Positions of diffraction spots on the area detector have defined position on rotation axis within the precision/accuracy of the stepping motor and the spacial

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread Tim Gruene
Dear Felix, as far as I understand we are talking about the frame width, not the total data range for indexing (10 degree rotations to get enough spots per frame). I have used 180degrees of data for indexing. At least XDS places the reflection at the centre of the frame so that with a 10deg frame

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread Felix Frolow
Dear Tim, My most experience is with HKL2000 which during the index doing something quite mysterious and not very well described such as a brute search for the correct reciprocal lattice. I do not know where initially the reflections are placed by HKL2000, but finally it converges. In the moment

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread George Sheldrick
Indexing involves storing all the reflection positions in orthogonal reciprocal space and then finding a reciprocal lattice that fits most of them. For a 10 degree frame all we know is that a reflection lies somewhere on a sort of 10 degree arc; only two of the three coordinates are precisely

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-25 Thread Zbyszek Otwinowski
There are detectors that are small and have fast readout time and others that have much larger size and slower readout time. Large detector size reduces background level very effectively by allowing data collection with larger crystal-to-detector distance. For well ordered crystals, level of

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-24 Thread Matthew Franklin
Hi Andreas - My two cents, from having tried this a couple of times on small molecule crystals that crossed my path: - You can get an answer using only standard macromolecular crystallography programs. It may not be up to the standards of the small molecule community, but that's probably

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-24 Thread Jens Kaiser
Andreas, What is your setup? We have a Cu Anode with an R-Axis IV, and just due to the geometry, the maximum resolution we can collect is around 1.4A. That won't do for small molecules. I think if your resolution is worse than something like 0.85A alarm bells start going off. If you can

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-24 Thread Navdeep Sidhu
Dear Andreas, It's a closely guarded secret that the data collection for small molecules is not that different from that for macromolecular crystallography. (Otherwise there's the risk that more macromolecular folks might get hooked to the addictive charm of the small-molecule world!) Just

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-24 Thread Tim Gruene
Dear Andreas, if you find a single crystal, you can use your favourite program for data collection, none of them should have problems with small molecule data. Since data integration only takes the Laue group into account, the space group make no problems, since also the Laue group of a protein

Re: [ccp4bb] small molecule crystallography

2014-03-24 Thread David Schuller
Coincidentally, I just spent my day trying to index a lattice of ~ 10 x 10 x 11 A. Mounting samples: if the compound is stable, just glue it to the end of a steel pin. No muss, no fuss. We had to attenuate our synchrotron beam heavily to make it work; motors can only turn so fast. We did