On 8/25/2023 9:46 AM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:
I feel like people are over-thinking the Apple 1 thing.
Apple made a lot of people rich, and I think the number of rich Apple
people who want to be able to throw parties and say stuff like, "Oh,
yes, that's my Apple I that I paid a million
Paul,
this is getting OT...but "value" is what something sells for, or the future
value it will be agreed to sell for. Otherwise it's subjective "value" to
the individual meets reality eventually.
On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:43 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>
> > On
I feel like people are over-thinking the Apple 1 thing.
Apple made a lot of people rich, and I think the number of rich Apple
people who want to be able to throw parties and say stuff like, "Oh,
yes, that's my Apple I that I paid a million dollars for."
substantially exceeds the number of extant
> On Aug 25, 2023, at 9:39 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:27 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 24, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>> It's obvious
On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 9:27 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>
> > On Aug 24, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > ...
> > It's obvious that the Apple 1 has the value it does not so much for its
> > technology but for
> On Aug 24, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> ...
> It's obvious that the Apple 1 has the value it does not so much for its
> technology but for what it represents, and that's all that matters.
This reminds me of the observation that economics is a branch of
On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 5:51 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> I don't mean to be argumentative. I totally get it why the apple I is
> historic and valuable, but the proportion is lost. My only point, the
> proportion. The fact that today Apple is worth $1Tn does
On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 20:51 Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
> The Jolt was the first 6502, how much is that worth?
>
Did the Jolt predate the KIM-1? I don't know their introduction dates.
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 21:27 Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> The PACE itself was a re-cast of the NSC IMP-16 chipset.
>
The IMP-16 and PACE architectures were similar (and similar to the DG
Nova), but they weren't binary or source compatible. Apparently NS didn't
think there was enough of an
On Thu, Aug 24, 2023, 8:38 PM Eric Smith via cctalk
wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 08:54 Bill Degnan via cctalk
> wrote:
>
> > The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify
> > the prices they get
> >
>
> The first product sold by the first company to hit $1T market cap
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 08:54 Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
> The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify
> the prices they get
>
The first product sold by the first company to hit $1T market cap seems
historically significant to me.
AFAIK the Apple 1 was also the first
On 8/17/23 17:40, ben via cctalk wrote:
> Did any body ever buy the PACE 16 cpu? Godbout ad, DEC 1975, BYTE page 9.
I grabbed one and manuals as a freebie at Wescon, I think. I built it
onto an S100 board (PMOS-TTL level translation will add lots of parts).
I got it going, and then, I thought
On 2023-08-17 2:30 p.m., Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 4:07 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap
from
dead or unimportant period electronics, cards,
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 4:07 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> > I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap
> from
> > dead or unimportant period electronics, cards, etc. In that way slowly
> > building up what is
> On Aug 17, 2023, at 3:18 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>
> ...
> Unicorn electronics, sells replica parts.
> NOW you know why the sell for on ebay. :)
> Ben.
> https://unicornelectronics.com/
Nice. They seem to have lots of stuff at decent prices. Impressive to see
SN7441 ICs,
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap from
dead or unimportant period electronics, cards, etc. In that way slowly
building up what is needed to complete parts of the Apple I replica one
piece at a time. I am
On 2023-08-17 12:28 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 4:08 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to
produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many the
chance to experience the Apple I at
> there aren't a lot of places to encounter massive PMOS shift registers.
I someone had told me around 1975 that these would become Valuable Collectibles
I would have laughed my ass off.
Maybe I should get around to doing something with those ceramic 1702s.
Probably equally "collectible" now.
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:34 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:28 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
> I should add that part of the fun is to locate parts for free or cheap from
> dead or unimportant period electronics, cards, etc. In that way slowly
> building up what is
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 6:11 PM Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
wrote:
> I have an IMSAI as well, but for me my favourite computer of that era is the
> KIM-1, and that's such a simple design there are tons of implementations
I only recently got a KIM-1 (at VCF East). It's been on my list for a
while
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:28 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 4:08 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
> wrote:
> > But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to
> > produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 4:08 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
> But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to
> produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many the
> chance to experience the Apple I at a reasonable price
I have a bare replica PCB. It's
The MITS emulator can't play Daisy :D
As I was leaving VCF late a few months ago, I was rolling an Apple2 around
outside on a cart - and a student across the street was walking by. I
didn't think much of it, then he ran over and asked "isn't that an Apple?"
So it occured to me: he was excited
Cool.
One of packages that I supported also ran on the "Medium Systems" (B3000
and B4000 at that point). When I needed to run tests on those machines,
I had to drive to the Pasadena office. There was an old-school fish bowl
system operator room though it hadn't been used as such for a long
Ah, BBM memories...
My first paying programmer/operator job was on a B260 in the late 60s, the
first Burroughs minicomputer in Canada IIRC. Many years later, after trying
a few other careers including managing a large motorcycle dealership, I
wound up back with Burroughs doing contract
As a matter of fact a local friend, Josh Bensadon, restored their MCM/70
for the York U museum in Toronto
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:37 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> On 8/5/23 16:30, John Herron wrote:
> > For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically
> > incorrect)
Yup!
There's one in the local University's museum, and the curator even wrote a
book about its interesting history.
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 7:37 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> On 8/5/23 16:30, John Herron wrote:
> > For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically
> >
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 4:37 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
>
> If I weren't old and if I were a collector, I'd be going after an MCM/70
> as my target. 8008 CPU, APL and pretty darned close to the first
> mobile-capable PC.
>
> Gotta love them Canadians.
>
Definitely a sleeper. Very hard to
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 3:32 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk
wrote:
> I have a MITS Altair 8800 that I constructed from the kit back in 1975.
> I haven't touched the thing in over 30 years--nor am I likely to.
> It'll probably go to the e-recycler (hopefully not the landfill) when I
> shed this mortal
My holy grail is a Burroughs B1965. I was one of the last people at
Burroughs (Unisys at that point) fixing bugs in the system software on
B1000 (the only one in the Lake Forest, CA office; all of the sys admins
knew of the B1965 there as "my" machine.). My office was filled with
B1000
On 8/5/23 16:30, John Herron wrote:
> For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically
> incorrect) being the first PC, the Altair 8800 is my holy Grail. Some
> day I'd like to have a real one but they increase in value at the same
> rate as my income lol so not likely going
For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically
incorrect) being the first PC, the Altair 8800 is my holy Grail. Some day
I'd like to have a real one but they increase in value at the same rate as
my income lol so not likely going to happen. It's a neat system though and
like
On 8/5/23 15:58, b...@techtimetraveller.com wrote:
> Do you have an emotional attachment to it? I just saw one sell on ebay
> yesterday for $6100. An e-recycler will have a nice payday on your Altair.
>
No real attachment; it was a useful tool for a time. It took an entire
weekend with
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: Sellam Abraham
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:48 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk
wrote:
>
> The Apple 1 is collectible purely because it was the first product
> Apple made.
Not really, though that's part of it.
-Original Message-
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 3:32 PM
To: Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
Cc: Chuck Guzis
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple 1
I have a MITS Altair 8800 that I constructed from the kit back in 1975.
I haven't touched the thing in over 30 years--nor am I likely
I have a MITS Altair 8800 that I constructed from the kit back in 1975.
I haven't touched the thing in over 30 years--nor am I likely to.
It'll probably go to the e-recycler (hopefully not the landfill) when I
shed this mortal coil or simply become incompetent. IIRC it ran about
$1,000--and that
> Personally I use my IMSAI somewhat regularly, thats my favorite computer
> from the mid 70s.
I have an IMSAI as well, but for me my favourite computer of that era is the
KIM-1, and that's such a simple design there are tons of reimplementations
(though I prefer the original since some of them
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:48 AM Joshua Rice via cctalk
wrote:
>
> The Apple 1 is collectible purely because it was the first product Apple
> made.
Not really, though that's part of it. The value of the Apple 1 has more to
do with the Cult of Steve than anything else. Steve Jobs became the most
On 8/5/2023 4:07 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 1:46 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though.
While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 1:46 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though.
> >
> While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them. Haven't
>
> even
On 2023-08-05 11:16 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 8/3/23 00:45, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
Value is a very much reliant on both desirability and historical significance.
I guarantee most people who own an Apple 1 never use it, and it sits in a
cabinet/shelf somewhere.
On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though.
While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them. Haven't
even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they
came home .
Wouldn't take an Apple
On 8/3/23 00:45, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
> Value is a very much reliant on both desirability and historical
> significance. I guarantee most people who own an Apple 1 never use it, and it
> sits in a cabinet/shelf somewhere. Transversely, I’m sure there’s very few
> Amiga 1200’s purely on
2023 07:07
To: Murray McCullough via cctalk
Cc: Christian Corti
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023, Murray McCullough wrote:
> Classic computers have a value in our capitalist society. Take the Apple-1:
Not necessarily. Something only gets a value if there is a demand or
mar
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:44 AM Gordon Henderson via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors'
> > hobby. The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to
> justify
On Sat, 5 Aug 2023, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors'
hobby. The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify
the prices they get, there is a cultural/memorabilia component too. Just
rare enough to form an
> No one collects cloud servers, the things that do
> the real work and storage. Will they?
Google's first server is in the Computer History Museum...
On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:54 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
> Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors'
> hobby.
Something has to be the most sought-after thing in every collectors'
hobby. The Apple I is not historically significant enough alone to justify
the prices they get, there is a cultural/memorabilia component too. Just
rare enough to form an elite "market". It's an indicator that computer age
On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 08:51:31AM -0500, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> That price is interesting. Does that imply the value has gone down after
> some skyrocketed close to 1 million? One still has to make the decision of
> a owning a house or an apple 1.
Well, both of them are treated as
Apple 1 prices have definitely peaked...for now. But you won't find one for
a few funded dollars in your lifetime, if ever. They're now an object of a
rich man's obsession.
Sellam
On Fri, Aug 4, 2023, 6:51 AM John Herron via cctalk
wrote:
> That price is interesting. Does that imply the value
That price is interesting. Does that imply the value has gone down after
some skyrocketed close to 1 million? One still has to make the decision of
a owning a house or an apple 1.
On Thu, Aug 3, 2023, 1:08 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Aug 2023,
On Wed, 2 Aug 2023, Murray McCullough wrote:
Classic computers have a value in our capitalist society. Take the Apple-1:
Not necessarily. Something only gets a value if there is a demand or
market. As I repeatedly see old classic systems scrapped because nobody
wants them/has space to store
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