Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/23/2016 02:30 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > >> At the time, I was in my (almost) young teens - and at least in the >> circles >> I traveled, the TRS-80 / Osborne and Kaypro were viewed as boring, >> stodgy >> machines without any redeeming entertainment qualities - no color >> graphics, >> no

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Peter Corlett wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 04:14:28AM -0700, Eric Smith wrote: > > The same trick works perfectly well with a 6502, and in fact was > invented by > > Don Lancaster using a 6502 years before the ZX80 was designed. That >

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Fri, 23 Dec 2016, Cameron Kaiser wrote: Commodore's Z80 in the 128 was due to unnecessary fear that they might lose market share to CP/M, when IBM should have been their big worry. I don't know all of the details of the ST/Amiga technology swap, but BOTH were too late, if the primary goal

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 04:14:28AM -0700, Eric Smith wrote: > On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 3:59 AM, Peter Corlett wrote: >> People who know Uncle Clive's unwillingness to spend a penny more than he >> has to on bulding computers may wonder why they selected the relatively >>

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 24 December 2016 at 05:02, geneb wrote: >> Commodore's Z80 in the 128 was due to unnecessary fear that they might >> lose market share to CP/M, when IBM should have been their big worry. >> I don't know all of the details of the ST/Amiga technology swap, but BOTH >> were

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

> > Commodore's Z80 in the 128 was due to unnecessary fear that they might lose > > market share to CP/M, when IBM should have been their big worry. > > I don't know all of the details of the ST/Amiga technology swap, but BOTH > > were too late, if the primary goal was competing with IBM. > >

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

Commodore's Z80 in the 128 was due to unnecessary fear that they might lose market share to CP/M, when IBM should have been their big worry. I don't know all of the details of the ST/Amiga technology swap, but BOTH were too late, if the primary goal was competing with IBM. That might be

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 24/12/2016 8:32 AM, "Fred Cisin" wrote: NO source is completely reliable. >> > On Fri, 23 Dec 2016, allison wrote: Most number and data I see to day in the popular media is just plain wrong. > particularly on anything like this. Surely, there must have been some

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

NO source is completely reliable. On Fri, 23 Dec 2016, allison wrote: Most number and data I see to day in the popular media is just plain wrong. particularly on anything like this. Surely, there must have been some [relatively] objective compilations of the sales data?

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > Of the original "Big three" (Radio Shack, Apple, Commodore), who came > first, Apple was the only one with entertainment capabilities, but they > priced it out of your market. > I'm not sure about that. My friends and I

Re: BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

and Snapper *IS* Pac Man On 23 December 2016 at 21:10, Adrian Graham wrote: > On 23/12/2016 17:00, "Liam Proven" wrote: > > >> The Acornsoft games were very high quality (hard to distinguish from > their > >> arcade inspirations). > >> > >> But

Re: BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23/12/2016 17:00, "Liam Proven" wrote: >> The Acornsoft games were very high quality (hard to distinguish from their >> arcade inspirations). >> >> But I was mostly interested in programming, so I loved our BBC Micro Model B >> to bits. A far superior machine to the Apple

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 19:56, Liam Proven wrote: > The Apple ][E was > £1390 in 1983 Sorry -- wrong currency sign. $1390. -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr:

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 16:00, allison wrote: > When the timex/sinclair with membrane keys got her eit was around 99$ > and immensely unpopular the later chicklet keyboard version was better > accepted. > BY then people wanted printer and mass storage and that machine was 2-4

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 19:34, Michael Holley wrote: > I was in London in 1981 and happened upon a computer faire. Here is a > write-up published in Seattle's Northwest Computer Society newsletter. It is > an American's view of the English computer scene. >

RE: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter Corlett Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 2:59 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards? >The "at least i

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

I knew my last missive would provoke at least one or two interesting (if not informative) responses. Yours was no exception, and I thank you for it. not informative responses are inevitable For one, I hadn't known that CP/M was written originally to the 8080.. I'd always assumed it originated

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/23/2016 10:16 AM, Liam Proven wrote: > On 23 December 2016 at 10:59, Peter Corlett wrote: >> The "at least in the US" caveat is important :) > Absolutely. > >> Sinclair's Z80-based ZX Spectrum was outrageously successful in the UK. Every >> teenage bedroom seemed to have

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/23/2016 07:18 AM, Tor Arntsen wrote: > On 23 December 2016 at 05:45, drlegendre . wrote: > urs was no exception, and I thank you for it. >> For one, I hadn't known that CP/M was written originally to the 8080.. I'd >> always assumed it originated on the Z80. > There

Re: BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

>> But I was mostly interested in programming, so I loved our BBC Micro Model B >> to bits. A far superior machine to the Apple and Commodores. > > I agree that it was a far superior machine. It had its limitations -- > shortage of RAM, notably -- but it was a great design. My personal view is

Re: BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 2016-12-23 2:00 PM, Liam Proven wrote: On 23 December 2016 at 15:50, Toby Thain wrote: On 2016-12-23 12:16 PM, Liam Proven wrote: ... The BBC Micro, at another quarter or third over the price of a C-64 but with a superb BASIC instead of CBM's abomination, was

Re: BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 15:50, Toby Thain wrote: > On 2016-12-23 12:16 PM, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> ... >> The BBC Micro, at another quarter or third over the price of a C-64 >> but with a superb BASIC instead of CBM's abomination, was what the >> unfortunate children of

BBC Micro - was Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 2016-12-23 12:16 PM, Liam Proven wrote: ... The BBC Micro, at another quarter or third over the price of a C-64 but with a superb BASIC instead of CBM's abomination, was what the unfortunate children of very serious, very wealthy people bought. Not nearly so many games and not very good.

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 10:59, Peter Corlett wrote: > The "at least in the US" caveat is important :) Absolutely. > Sinclair's Z80-based ZX Spectrum was outrageously successful in the UK. Every > teenage bedroom seemed to have one by the late 1980s. The various 6502-based >

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/22/2016 11:37 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > NO source is completely reliable. > > >> http://jeremyreimer.com/m-item.lsp?i=137 > http://jeremyreimer.com/uploads/notes-on-sources.txt > > He does provide some information on his sources. > > When we talk about sales, are we talking about UNITS, or

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/22/2016 11:04 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > We all hang out with people who are smart enough to see things the > same way that we do. Accordingly, our choices in computers, cars, > cellphone providers always look to us like the MAJORITY. They are > the BEST, and certainly the MOST POPULAR

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 23 December 2016 at 05:45, drlegendre . wrote: urs was no exception, and I thank you for it. > > For one, I hadn't known that CP/M was written originally to the 8080.. I'd > always assumed it originated on the Z80. There are only 8080 instructions in CP/M, not a single

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 3:59 AM, Peter Corlett wrote: > People who know Uncle Clive's unwillingness to spend a penny more than he > has > to on bulding computers may wonder why they selected the relatively > expensive > Z80 over the 6502, but it was because they managed to

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 08:01:46PM -0600, drlegendre . wrote: > "The Z80 had more players and more names than all the rest" > And yet it was essentially a bit-player in the days of the 'home computer' > revolution - at least in the US. CBM, Apple, Atari - the three big names in > home computers,

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

@Grumpy Old Fred I knew my last missive would provoke at least one or two interesting (if not informative) responses. Yours was no exception, and I thank you for it. For one, I hadn't known that CP/M was written originally to the 8080.. I'd always assumed it originated on the Z80. And I don't

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

I’ll chime in on the Z80 preference, since I was there at the time. In the very early 1980s, when I was about 15, my father decided to buy a home computer. (Before that, he had a TI Silent 700 that dialed up to a Univac mainframe.) I remember him doing hours of research comparing the Apple II,

Re: General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

NO source is completely reliable. http://jeremyreimer.com/m-item.lsp?i=137 http://jeremyreimer.com/uploads/notes-on-sources.txt He does provide some information on his sources. When we talk about sales, are we talking about UNITS, or about dollars? (an important distinction for such as the

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 7:01 PM, drlegendre . wrote: > The Z80 also showed up in the Osborne, Kaypro and TRS-80 models.. mostly > due to the fact that CP/M was written to it. > Use of the Z80 in the mainstream TRS-80 models (1 and III) had little or nothing to do with

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

"The Z80 had more players and more names than all the rest" And yet it was essentially a bit-player in the days of the 'home computer' revolution - at least in the US. CBM, Apple, Atari - the three big names in home computers, all went with the 6502 family. And perhaps even more importantly, so

General public machines (Was: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

We all hang out with people who are smart enough to see things the same way that we do. Accordingly, our choices in computers, cars, cellphone providers always look to us like the MAJORITY. They are the BEST, and certainly the MOST POPULAR [among everybody that WE hang out with], but not

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On 12/21/2016 07:06 PM, Sam O'nella wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:54 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote: > >> >> On 12/17/2016 1:23 PM, Stephen Pereira wrote: >> >>> I was (finally) lucky enough to acquire an Altair 680 back in November... >>> >> Is there any logic to the naming of

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

Dammat. "were not limited" -> "were more limited" On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 9:15 PM, drlegendre . wrote: > I have my own ridiculous ad-hoc hypothesis on this.. > > Both names have a couple things in common - first, they do +not+ contain > the actual CPU model. This may have

Re: Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

I have my own ridiculous ad-hoc hypothesis on this.. Both names have a couple things in common - first, they do +not+ contain the actual CPU model. This may have been to avoid marketplace confusion and potential legal action from a outfit much bigger than Altair (Now who makes the 8080 again?

Altair 8800 name Was: Re: Altair 680 Expansion Boards?

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:54 PM, j...@cimmeri.com wrote: > > > On 12/17/2016 1:23 PM, Stephen Pereira wrote: > >> I was (finally) lucky enough to acquire an Altair 680 back in November... >> > > Is there any logic to the naming of these Altairs? Wonder why it wasn't > "Altair