Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
Thanks, Dave. Was the group mark on the Model 2 typewriter keyboard? I don't recall it from the CADET. It was associated with the 1311 disk option anyway. How does one print a flagged numeric blank? (the "dump numeric" instruction prints it)? Thanks, Chuck On 4/10/19 10:10 PM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote: > Sorry about the missing photos. > > Here's the keyboard: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyxdpwi2mzz4kek/custom-keyboard.jpg?dl=0 > > Here's the printed output: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb7lzrlzygnnvhl/Console_Typewriter_Output.png?dl=0 > > > Thanks, > Dave > > > On 4/10/2019 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> Dave, >> >> I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the >> listserv strips out anything but test. Got a link? >> >> --Chuck >> >> >> On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote: >>> Chuck, >>> >>> True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen). The 1620 Model 2 >>> used a Selectric (2nd gen). We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric >>> typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?). [I know >>> it's a stretch.] >>> >>> The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low >>> maintenance device. The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education >>> Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed >>> difficult & expensive maintenance. >>> >>> Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console >>> Typewriter: >>> >>> And here is the printed output: >>> Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special >>> characters. :-) >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Dave >>> >
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
Sorry about the missing photos. Here's the keyboard: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyxdpwi2mzz4kek/custom-keyboard.jpg?dl=0 Here's the printed output: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb7lzrlzygnnvhl/Console_Typewriter_Output.png?dl=0 Thanks, Dave On 4/10/2019 11:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Dave, I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the listserv strips out anything but test. Got a link? --Chuck On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote: Chuck, True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen). The 1620 Model 2 used a Selectric (2nd gen). We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?). [I know it's a stretch.] The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low maintenance device. The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed difficult & expensive maintenance. Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console Typewriter: And here is the printed output: Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special characters. :-) Thanks, Dave On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote: To all, The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter motherboard, with custom firmware. Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter... --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 2:11 PM, Mark Moulding via cctalk wrote: > The Diablo was the first one I thought of. I had one for some time, and > it was very reliable and produced high quality output. Also much faster > than the Teletype, and faster also than the TermiNet 300 I had at the > same time. There's currently one on eBay: > https://www.ebay.com/itm/263756218024 I believe that both Qume and NEC also offered KSRs. --Chuck
Re: TeleVideo's MmmOST
fascinatingly advanced for 1981. From: cctalk on behalf of Patrick Finnegan via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 4:50 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: TeleVideo's MmmOST I've been adding a few more blog posts, and put up the first one on what (to me) makes TeleVideo actually interesting - their MmmOST client/server operating system. I hope to get more up soon, but I have a (somewhat lengthy) introduction based on what I've been able to learn about MmmOST: https://worldofvax.blogspot.com/2019/04/televideo-systems-part-v-mmmost.html I'm still looking for TS-800A's and TS-806/816's if anyone has some laying around. It'd be informative to get a real MmmOST service processor up and running. Pat
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. Well, there are Qume and Diablo.? Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of them carry that label. Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. The Diablo was the first one I thought of. I had one for some time, and it was very reliable and produced high quality output. Also much faster than the Teletype, and faster also than the TermiNet 300 I had at the same time. There's currently one on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/263756218024 ~~ Mark Moulding
TeleVideo's MmmOST
I've been adding a few more blog posts, and put up the first one on what (to me) makes TeleVideo actually interesting - their MmmOST client/server operating system. I hope to get more up soon, but I have a (somewhat lengthy) introduction based on what I've been able to learn about MmmOST: https://worldofvax.blogspot.com/2019/04/televideo-systems-part-v-mmmost.html I'm still looking for TS-800A's and TS-806/816's if anyone has some laying around. It'd be informative to get a real MmmOST service processor up and running. Pat
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
Dave, I'd love to see the keyboard and printed output; unfortunately, the listserv strips out anything but test. Got a link? --Chuck On 4/10/19 11:14 AM, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote: > Chuck, > > True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen). The 1620 Model 2 > used a Selectric (2nd gen). We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric > typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?). [I know > it's a stretch.] > > The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low > maintenance device. The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education > Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed > difficult & expensive maintenance. > > Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console > Typewriter: > > And here is the printed output: > Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special > characters. :-) > > Thanks, > Dave > > > On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: >> On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote: >>> To all, >>> >>> The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done >>> this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter >>> into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with >>> an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in >>> the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter >>> motherboard, with custom firmware. >> >> Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console >> typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated >> enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was >> going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. >> >> What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record >> mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter... >> >> --Chuck >> >> >> > -- --Chuck Sent from my digital computer
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Dave Babcock via cctalk wrote: The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low maintenance device. The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed difficult & expensive maintenance. So, . . . not fully replicating the original real experience. :-)
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 11:29 AM, Fred Cisin via cctech wrote: > On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: >> Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console >> typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated >> enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was >> going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. > > Immaculately maintained equipment, such as at the CHM, also doesn't have > the burnt oil smell that used to be associated with real world EAM. Or the grime--such as replacing a shredded ribbon on a line printer. Or roaches and mice under the raised floor... --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. Immaculately maintained equipment, such as at the CHM, also doesn't have the burnt oil smell that used to be associated with real world EAM.
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote: > To all, > > The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done > this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter > into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with > an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in > the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter > motherboard, with custom firmware. Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter... --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
To all, The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter motherboard, with custom firmware. The initial work was to create a robust substitute for the IBM 1620's console typewriter. However, software changes are being completed this month to extend it into a general-purpose, easily-adapted, ASCII teleprinter. We demoed the device as part of our VCF West display last August at which we took 1st Place in Best of Show and 2nd Place in Restorations/Replicas. We will be making all of our design files, software, and documentation available free to the classic computer community. To whet your appetite, here's the step-by-step, illustrated guide for the physical conversion of the typewriter: https://github.com/IBM-1620/Junior/raw/master/docs/wheelwriter-adaptation-instructions.pdf We'll be posting a formal announcement of this device within a few months. This work has been done by Joe Fredrick, Steve Casner, and myself. Thanks, Dave On 4/10/2019 9:24 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: I remember in '79 a KSR Diablo was the dream KSR printing terminal and cost like 3 grand? Oh how we used to dream of having one of these back then! We do have one in the museum's collection... although have not attempted to power up to use. Ed# In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of them carry that label. Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the keyboard were known as). I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated. Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants to pay shipping. I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete system with it. Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away. --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
Chuck, True, the 1620 Model 1 Model B typewriter (1st gen). The 1620 Model 2 used a Selectric (2nd gen). We're using the 3rd generation IBM electric typewriter (Wheelwriter) with the 1620 Jr. (3rd gen 1620?). [I know it's a stretch.] The issue is that for Jr. we needed a reliable, robust, very low maintenance device. The IBM 1620 Jr. will be used by the CHM Education Department and needs to stand up to hands-on use without needed difficult & expensive maintenance. Here's the keyboard of our Wheelwriter-based IBM 1620 Jr. Console Typewriter: And here is the printed output: Note the slashed zero, flagged digits, and all of the 1620 special characters. :-) Thanks, Dave On 4/10/2019 10:56 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctech wrote: On 4/10/19 10:35 AM, Dave Babcock via cctech wrote: To all, The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter motherboard, with custom firmware. Aw, that's too bad! The original Model I (CADET) 1620 had a console typewriter (was it based on the IBM Model B electric?) that gyrated enough, particularly on carriage returns, that made you wonder if it was going to fly to pieces at any time. It was all part of the experience. What did you do about the 1620-specific keys? I don't think that record mark or R-S was a keytop legend ona Weheelwriter... --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
To all, The Computer History Museum's IBM 1620 Jr. project has already done this. We have converted an IBM Wheelwriter 1000 electric typewriter into a computer terminal. The conversion consists of a custom PCB with an Arduino Teensy 3.5 microcontroller which is physically installed in the typewriter, electrically in-between the keyboard and typewriter motherboard, with custom firmware. The initial work was to create a robust substitute for the IBM 1620's console typewriter. However, software changes are being completed this month to extend it into a general-purpose, easily-adapted, ASCII teleprinter. We demoed the device as part of our VCF West display last August at which we took 1st Place in Best of Show and 2nd Place in Restorations/Replicas. We will be making all of our design files, software, and documentation available free to the classic computer community. To whet your appetite, here's the step-by-step, illustrated guide for the physical conversion of the typewriter: https://github.com/IBM-1620/Junior/raw/master/docs/wheelwriter-adaptation-instructions.pdf We'll be posting a formal announcement of this device within a few months. This work has been done by Joe Fredrick, Steve Casner, and myself. Thanks, Dave On 4/10/2019 9:24 AM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: I remember in '79 a KSR Diablo was the dream KSR printing terminal and cost like 3 grand? Oh how we used to dream of having one of these back then! We do have one in the museum's collection... although have not attempted to power up to use. Ed# In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of them carry that label. Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the keyboard were known as). I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated. Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants to pay shipping. I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete system with it. Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away. --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 1:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: > I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. The CHM "1620Jr" project has been using IBM Wheelwriter 1000s http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/IBM-1620-Jr-Status-2018_04_30.pdf
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of them carry that label. Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the keyboard were known as). I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated. Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants to pay shipping. I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete system with it. Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away. On Wed, 10 Apr 2019, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: I remember in '79 a KSR Diablo was the dream KSR printing terminal and cost like 3 grand? Oh how we used to dream of having one of these back then! We do have one in the museum's collection... although have not attempted to power up to use. My first computer printer was a DTC-300. Diablo HyType 1 KSR. Non-detachable stand. Given to me by a friend who I gave a car to. I created the manuscript for my Honda book on it. TRS80 model 1 with "Electric Pencil" I printed out drafts as 80 columns on 15" paper. Centered and double spaced for the editor, flush left for the illustator, who loved having a big chunk of space alongside to doodle in. Used to be able to get wide paper with both edge tear-offs, AND a tear-off to reduce to 8.5x11. One time, I got FOUR of them at John Craig's Computer Swap America. Bringing them home in a Honda Civic was "interesting". Always have a couple of skeins of rope in the trunk. Getting rid of them when I closed my office in 2001 was "interesting". But, a really great guy rescued me, and took truckloads of computer stuff that nobody else would. Thank you, Sellam! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
I remember in '79 a KSR Diablo was the dream KSR printing terminal and cost like 3 grand? Oh how we used to dream of having one of these back then! We do have one in the museum's collection... although have not attempted to power up to use. Ed# In a message dated 4/10/2019 8:40:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: >> I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. >> > Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of > them carry that label. > Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the keyboard were known as). I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated. Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants to pay shipping. I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete system with it. Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away. --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 4/10/19 8:16 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: >> I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. >> > Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of > them carry that label. > Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. I've given a couple of the Diablo KSRs (that's what the Hitypes with the keyboard were known as). I didn't care for them much--no immediacy of sound and keypress--the two seem unrelated. Daisywheel printers are incredibly difficult to get rid of--nobody wants to pay shipping. I got rid of the last one by throwing in a complete system with it. Still have a NEC Spinwriter mouldering away. --Chuck
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
On 04/10/2019 03:38 AM, GerardCJAT via cctalk wrote: I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. Well, there are Qume and Diablo. Diablo was bought by Xerox, so some of them carry that label. Most of the stand-alone versions had serial (RS-232) ASCII interface. Jon
RE: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of GerardCJAT via > cctalk > Sent: 10 April 2019 09:38 > To: cct...@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY > > I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. > One immediately think : " Find an IBM Selectric, a Friden flexowriter or a like " > But NO, I want something less complex, mechanical wise. > That's why I want to investigate on daisywheel typewriters. > I am aware of IBM Actionwriter and Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 that > can be used as a printer with a dedicated interface BUT that is one way only : > Printer only ! > From my investigation, so far ***, KEYBOARD does not send ( upload ? > ) any signals. > ( or a special command code is required ?? ) > > Any suggestion for "others" daisywhell typewriters that could do OR > someone already went this way ? > OR any documentation ( even user's manual ) on the dedicated interface : > ( IF 600 Computer Interface for Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 ) ( > ???name??? for IBM Actionwriter ) Try googling IBM Wheelwriter. Certainly these have been used as printers. For a key board get a model M and an Arduino .. or even a DEC LK401 as that's already a serial keyboard... Dave
Re: Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
Gerard asked > I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. > One immediately think : " Find an IBM Selectric, a Friden flexowriter or a > like " > But NO, I want something less complex, mechanical wise. > That's why I want to investigate on daisywheel typewriters. > I am aware of IBM Actionwriter and Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 that can > be used > as a printer with a dedicated interface BUT that is one way only : Printer > only ! > From my investigation, so far ***, KEYBOARD does not send ( upload ? ) > any signals. > ( or a special command code is required ?? ) > > Any suggestion for "others" daisywhell typewriters that could do > OR someone already went this way ? > OR any documentation ( even user's manual ) on the dedicated interface : > ( IF 600 Computer Interface for Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 ) > ( ???name??? for IBM Actionwriter ) How about https://hackaday.com/2017/01/14/vintage-ibm-daisywheel-prints-again-after-reverse-engineering/ Steve
Daisywhell typewriter emulating a TTY
I would like to emulate a TTY, using a daisywheel typewriter. One immediately think : " Find an IBM Selectric, a Friden flexowriter or a like " But NO, I want something less complex, mechanical wise. That's why I want to investigate on daisywheel typewriters. I am aware of IBM Actionwriter and Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 that can be used as a printer with a dedicated interface BUT that is one way only : Printer only ! >From my investigation, so far ***, KEYBOARD does not send ( upload ? ) >any signals. ( or a special command code is required ?? ) Any suggestion for "others" daisywhell typewriters that could do OR someone already went this way ? OR any documentation ( even user's manual ) on the dedicated interface : ( IF 600 Computer Interface for Triumph/Adler/Royal Gabriele 9009 ) ( ???name??? for IBM Actionwriter )
