Re: Looking for HP 9810A keyboard springs

[Curious Marc]

Springs are a notoriously annoying. In small volume they are very expensive or 
hard to find. In high volume you basically have them wound for you and they are 
very cheap per unit, if you make a ton of them. Not much in-between. In the US 
I have used both of the below for stock springs with good luck:

http://www.centuryspring.com/

http://www.asraymond.com/extension-springs.html

Marc

 

From: cctech  on behalf of Camiel Vanderhoeven 

Reply-To: "cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Date: Friday, July 22, 2016 at 8:24 AM
To: "cct...@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: Looking for HP 9810A keyboard springs

 

Hi Guys,

 

I've got an HP 9810A that has been stored in sub-optimal conditions by

a previous owner; a lot of the keyboard springs have rusted away, so

I'm looking for a replacement. These are about 15.5mm outer diameter,

0.35mm thick wire, about 10mm high when uncompressed, and have only

about 1.5 turns of wire.

 

Any pointers would be appreciated!

 

Camiel.

 

Re: HP Computer Museum in the (local) News

[J. David Bryan]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 17:43, Rodney Brown wrote:

> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-22/vintage-computer-museum-revives-hp21
> 16a-founder-dies/7638458
> 
> A keen mountaineer who died trekking in Tibet has left a rare computer
> collection behind as his legacy.

A touching article; thanks for posting it, Rodney.

  -- Dave

RE: heap of floppy disks

[william degnan]

It would not take much time to archive these disks and post somewhere for
those who have the disks that have gone bad, have docs but lost the/s disk
in the set, etc.

Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
On Jul 22, 2016 11:30 PM, "Rob Jarratt"  wrote:

>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
> > davison
> > Sent: 23 July 2016 00:11
> > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> > 
> > Subject: heap of floppy disks
> >
> > I picked up two crates jam packed full of floppys today. Bunch of random
> old
> > utilities in there, borland turbo asm, turbo pascal, windows for
> workgroups
> > etc.
> >
> > I found a set of disks with the DEC digital logo on them. 4-5 disks,
> says dos for
> > the dec pc. Some utilitys too. Are these of any use to anyone, or is it
> just a
> > stock dos install with a dec sticker on the disk?
> >
> > There are little heaps of disks on just about every surface around here,
> i will
> > post back with a complete list of what is here to see if anyone is
> interested in
> > what is here. I just want some of the software off of the disks, i don't
> > necessarily want to keep the two full crates of disks around . There is
> also an
> > original copy of doom on floppy that looks to be complete.
> >
>
>
> Looking forward to seeing the list. Could you also tell us where they are
> located?
>
> Thanks
>
> Rob
>
>

RE: heap of floppy disks

[Rob Jarratt]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of devin
> davison
> Sent: 23 July 2016 00:11
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: heap of floppy disks
> 
> I picked up two crates jam packed full of floppys today. Bunch of random old
> utilities in there, borland turbo asm, turbo pascal, windows for workgroups
> etc.
> 
> I found a set of disks with the DEC digital logo on them. 4-5 disks, says dos 
> for
> the dec pc. Some utilitys too. Are these of any use to anyone, or is it just a
> stock dos install with a dec sticker on the disk?
> 
> There are little heaps of disks on just about every surface around here, i 
> will
> post back with a complete list of what is here to see if anyone is interested 
> in
> what is here. I just want some of the software off of the disks, i don't
> necessarily want to keep the two full crates of disks around . There is also 
> an
> original copy of doom on floppy that looks to be complete.
> 


Looking forward to seeing the list. Could you also tell us where they are 
located?

Thanks

Rob

Re: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[Paul Berger]

On 2016-07-22 9:17 PM, CuriousMarc wrote:

Unfortunately, I have the older ROM, the HP 98217A. Says 9885 Flexible Disk
Drive on it (duh). Only this 9885, single side low density 8" drive,
connected with the parallel interface and a special cable is supported. And
indeed as Tony says, to start from a blank disk, you need a tape cartridge
that has the "disc system" on it and run an initialize program to copy files
on the first disc sectors. If you don't have a copy of that cartridge then
you are hosed even with that ROM. So I am hosed twice: I don't have a 9885
drive and I don't have the cartridge. And I suspect a cartridge that's
readable doesn't exist anymore.

The newer ROM is the HP 98228. Which can ONLY work in a later HP 9825T (not
the A nor the B), and can drive the aforementioned 8" 9885 with the parallel
interface, and also the 9895 double sided double density double drive via
the HP-IB interface. But only with the "revised" HP-IB interface, not the
original interface. Very picky that ROM.  Bu for the 9885 disc, it does not
have the cartridge requirement (yeah!). I have the 9825T, the 9895 drive,
the revised interface, but not the right ROM. Hosed again.

The details are in the 9825 Disc ROM Manual:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=1864

Marc
On the hpmuseum.net page for the 98217A ROM here is an image of what is 
reputed to be an initialized diskette for use with 9825 and 98217A 
http://www.hpmuseum.net/display_item.php?hw=166. When I get my 9825T I 
will look into 9885 emulation, I don't think it will be too difficult 
but you may still need a GPIO unless I build the whole thing onto a 
plug-in card I don't think the GPIO would be too difficult to clone.   
But ideally I would still like to get access to a 98228A ROM to dump and 
clone it, even though it is bank switched it should still be possible.


Paul.

Re: Reproduction micros

[Paul Koning]

> On Jul 22, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:
> 
>>> It's not.  Peter is talking about a four-bit field in the
>>> instructions. You're talking about a six-bit field in the program
>>> counter.
>> 
>> Something that's always bothered me about three-address architectures
>> like ARM is why there is the insistence on that scheduling bottleneck,
>> the condition code register?  You can see how two-address architectures
>> like the x80 and x86 try to get around the problem by having certain
>> instructions not modify certain condition code bits
> 
> I realize I'm a broken record here, but PowerPC does the same thing. 

It seems that a great many things that some modern reporter thinks are new, or 
recent, and unusual, have been done in any number of places.  And possibly (as 
in this case) at least 20 years earlier than the reporter is aware of.

paul

RE: Flex Disc options for the HP 9825

[CuriousMarc]

Unfortunately, I have the older ROM, the HP 98217A. Says 9885 Flexible Disk
Drive on it (duh). Only this 9885, single side low density 8" drive,
connected with the parallel interface and a special cable is supported. And
indeed as Tony says, to start from a blank disk, you need a tape cartridge
that has the "disc system" on it and run an initialize program to copy files
on the first disc sectors. If you don't have a copy of that cartridge then
you are hosed even with that ROM. So I am hosed twice: I don't have a 9885
drive and I don't have the cartridge. And I suspect a cartridge that's
readable doesn't exist anymore.

The newer ROM is the HP 98228. Which can ONLY work in a later HP 9825T (not
the A nor the B), and can drive the aforementioned 8" 9885 with the parallel
interface, and also the 9895 double sided double density double drive via
the HP-IB interface. But only with the "revised" HP-IB interface, not the
original interface. Very picky that ROM.  Bu for the 9885 disc, it does not
have the cartridge requirement (yeah!). I have the 9825T, the 9895 drive,
the revised interface, but not the right ROM. Hosed again.

The details are in the 9825 Disc ROM Manual:
http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=1864

Marc

> > Probably a question for Tony's encyclopedic knowledge. I just scored
> > two HP 9825, one a later "T" option and one "B" version with all the
> > fixings (i.e ROM packs). They both seem to work save the usual tape
> > drive which I have not gotten to yet. Both have the flexible disc ROM.
> > What kind of discs can I hook up?
> 
> Which flexible disk ROM? There are 2. The older one, AFAIK supports the
> HP9885 8" drive which has a 16 bit parallel interface and needs the right
> version of the 98032 to hook it up. The later disk ROM supports the HP9895
> on HPIB.
> 
> The older ROM needs a disk with various programs on it to work, it is
> essentially just a bootstrap. Have any such disks survived?
> 
> -tony

Re: Reproduction micros

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > It's not.  Peter is talking about a four-bit field in the
> > instructions. You're talking about a six-bit field in the program
> > counter.
> 
> Something that's always bothered me about three-address architectures
> like ARM is why there is the insistence on that scheduling bottleneck,
> the condition code register?  You can see how two-address architectures
> like the x80 and x86 try to get around the problem by having certain
> instructions not modify certain condition code bits

I realize I'm a broken record here, but PowerPC does the same thing. You
have to ask for the bits to be updated (specialized forms like the "dot"
instructions) unless you do an explicit compare instruction, and in many
cases there is a special form to only update a certain set of bits instead
of them all (e.g., "addo" updates overflow but nothing else, "addo." does
overflow and CR bits, "addco." does carry too).

> and even have
> specialized instructions, such as JCXZ, that don't reply on a specific
> condition code.

... bdnz, which decrements CTR and branches if not zero, ...

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- "Use gun kata for fun! Because you worth it!" --

Re: heap of floppy disks

[Tothwolf]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, devin davison wrote:

I picked up two crates jam packed full of floppys today. Bunch of random 
old utilities in there, borland turbo asm, turbo pascal, windows for 
workgroups etc.


I found a set of disks with the DEC digital logo on them. 4-5 disks, 
says dos for the dec pc. Some utilitys too. Are these of any use to 
anyone, or is it just a stock dos install with a dec sticker on the 
disk?


There are little heaps of disks on just about every surface around here, 
i will post back with a complete list of what is here to see if anyone 
is interested in what is here. I just want some of the software off of 
the disks, i don't necessarily want to keep the two full crates of disks 
around . There is also an original copy of doom on floppy that looks to 
be complete.


I'm still on the lookout for Procomm Plus for Windows (ver 2.11) if you 
happen across that on 3.5" disks. I bought what was supposed to be a boxed 
copy off eBay years ago and it was mostly complete... box, manuals, 
license, but no disks :)

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

It was not someone at the PCB manufacturer.  They would not have had access to 
the prom software.  

This was a pre-NTI board so Apple at the time was only a handful of people, the 
only technician was Dan Kottke and he was asked about the board already.  

BTW, The only known defective board is Woz's personal NTI board which was 
repaired by cutting a short under the green coat between two address lines.  

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Jul 22, 2016, at 3:01 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
>> There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave soldered 
>> by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 100 boards 
>> each.
> 
> Then, there were blank boards before the shop making the boards populated 
> them.  A bord could have been pulled aside at that time.
> Obvious possibilities include:
> 1) It failed some form of quality control, even if just cosmetic or 
> repairable?
> 2) Sample pulled aside before population for more testing.
> 3) An Apple technician who was fed up with trying to troubleshoot with crappy 
> sockets requested/demanded/bribed the shop to populate xx of them with half 
> decent sockets.  Surely Woz,himself, was fed up with the time that he had 
> wasted due to the bad sockets!
> 4) the VERY first board got pulled aside for testing, populated with real 
> sockets, wave-soldered, and then, when it passed testing, word was given to 
> put crap sockets on the rest.
> 
>> This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
>> soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
>> sockets even though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is 
>> from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
>> expensive and reliable RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte Shop 
>> boards because of all the evidence.
> 
> None of THAT explicitly implies PREdates.
> Consider,  after completion, it was noticed that there was one more board. 
> Maybe they had run out of, or dumpstered, all of the crap sockets.
> Or Apple employee or board shop employee simply wanted something better.
> 
> 
> Although, in #3 above, if it were ME, I would have populated a testing board 
> with Augat.
> 
> 
> With any of these scenarios, LATER ON, when no longer needed in testing, or 
> Apple lab work, the board could have been given away or sold, such as at 
> Computer Swap America.  With, or without, official authorization.
> 
> 
> There was no attempt to affix a serial number to all of the boards?
> "At some point, every company realizes the need to tighten inventory."
> 
> 
> 

8i front

[Adrian Stoness]

finaly got some pregress on this 8i from a feild restoration of mine..

now to sit down and do an order for the transistors

and go talk to the local ewaste recycler on monday see if they can help me
source some slider switches like one i found in the junk pile at the local
hacker space last night looks very promising will need to get new rocker
peics made to atach the 8i switches to but its looking promising if this
works out there may be a suden suply of replacement switch assemblys
avail...


https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8752/27863539914_a92d0264c7_b.jpg

baby steps baby steps

Re: heap of floppy disks

[geneb]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, devin davison wrote:


I picked up two crates jam packed full of floppys today. Bunch of random
old utilities in there, borland turbo asm, turbo pascal, windows for
workgroups etc.


I would be interested in any of the Borland stuff!

tnx.

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

heap of floppy disks

[devin davison]

I picked up two crates jam packed full of floppys today. Bunch of random
old utilities in there, borland turbo asm, turbo pascal, windows for
workgroups etc.

I found a set of disks with the DEC digital logo on them. 4-5 disks, says
dos for the dec pc. Some utilitys too. Are these of any use to anyone, or
is it just a stock dos install with a dec sticker on the disk?

There are little heaps of disks on just about every surface around here, i
will  post back with a complete list of what is here to see if anyone is
interested in what is here. I just want some of the software off of the
disks, i don't necessarily want to keep the two full crates of disks around
. There is also an original copy of doom on floppy that looks to be
complete.

--Devin

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Tothwolf]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:

There were no blank boards. That's the key. The sockets were wave 
soldered by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 
100 boards each.


This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
sockets even though they were from a different PCB house. This board is 
from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
expensive and reliable RN sockets. Which implies it predates the Byte 
Shop boards because of all the evidence.


TBH, I'm not sure why people get hung up on wave soldering vs hand 
soldering. My own hand soldering is practically indistinguishable from a 
properly wave soldered board and it wouldn't be unreasonable for someone 
working at Apple to be able to hand solder boards similarly, or even for a 
prior owner of the board to have retrofitted those sockets.


When I stuff boards, I use an assembly jig and form/pre-cut component 
leads before soldering. This is how I was (re)taught to solder when I 
began working with high reliability gear (cutting leads after soldering 
can cause microfractures in the joint) and I continue to use those 
techniques. I also use supplemental flux because the flux in cored solder 
is really only sufficient for bright/clean pads and leads. I consistently 
get better results with the extra flux.

RE: Nova 3 front panel

[Jay West]

Jim;

Thanks for the link... I went up the tree and saw the pics of that ADDS Envoy 
terminal. I'm exceedingly green with envy. Congrats on an awesome piece of kit!

J

Re: Reproduction micros

[Adrian Graham]

On 22/07/2016 21:23, "Pete Turnbull"  wrote:

> On 22/07/2016 20:36, Adrian Graham wrote:
>> On 22/07/2016 10:04, "Pete Turnbull"  wrote:
> 
>>> If you have those, I would strongly recommend you arrange an offsite
>>> backup.  Say, about 170 miles north via the A14/A1 :-)
>> 
>> I remember why I've never fired them up, this is the label on the one with
>> the Beeb connecting podule:
>> 
>> http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/acorna500label.jpg
>> 
>> Of course 'smoke' in these PSUs just means the mains cap has blown but I'm
>> not sure about the fizzing.
> 
> Well, those A500s use a standard Master 128 power supply.  I can fix
> that :-)

Feast your eyes. Not pictured are the Dark Matter keyboards because they're
in another room probably weighing something down so it won't fly away...

http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/acorna500.jpg

It'd be interesting to see if the Rodimes in there power up and start given
their sticky head problems, the label on the other one says 'disc works,
contains lots of useful stuff'.

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[jim stephens]

On 7/22/2016 10:39 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
I'm not a big fan of the surgery involved in LED conversion, though I 
understand why folks do it.  Particularly if they, like Emil, have 
used the wrong bulbs and found themselves replacing them all the time.
I wouldn't do the surgery, but here's the situation.  Someone already 
used this panel for the source of lamps, or they were all burned out.  
There are only two bulbs left to remove.


The surgery wasn't bad, it doesn't look like there are lifted etch pads, 
so that part is good.  So this one is a good candidate for the 
conversion as any.  I'm not a stickler for historic accuracy, and if 
anyone gets it to use as a running unit, they will hopefully never have 
to open the panel again.


Thanks for the analysis too, that is good to know, as i still have 
1600's with 5v bulbs to deal with.  Luckily the 1600 uses socketed parts 
and the main issue with them is pulling the panels two 50 pin ribbon 
connectors off.  The connectors on the ends of that get worn out.


The Nova has an edge card connector (as does my buddies Eclipse panel) 
so that isn't a problem with this design.  Between the two problems I'll 
take the problem with the connector over the problem with soldering 
lamps any time.


thanks again
Jim

http://jimsoldtoys.blogspot.com/2016/07/nova-3-front-panel.html

Re: Reproduction micros

[Pete Turnbull]

On 22/07/2016 20:36, Adrian Graham wrote:

On 22/07/2016 10:04, "Pete Turnbull"  wrote:



If you have those, I would strongly recommend you arrange an offsite
backup.  Say, about 170 miles north via the A14/A1 :-)


I remember why I've never fired them up, this is the label on the one with
the Beeb connecting podule:

http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/acorna500label.jpg

Of course 'smoke' in these PSUs just means the mains cap has blown but I'm
not sure about the fizzing.


Well, those A500s use a standard Master 128 power supply.  I can fix 
that :-)


--
Pete

Re: Reproduction micros

[Karl-Wilhelm Wacker]

If these are switching power supplies, the fizzing may be the output filter 
caps

overheating and about to pop their safety 'corks' due to self heating due to
high ripple currents.

I can across this probelm in a Clary Datacomp 404 computer that I worked
on in the late 60's.  The initial fix was a plastic sheild across the top of 
the caps
so that if they vented while a tech was working on the unit, they would not 
spew

the fluid inside them into the tech's face.

Karl

- Original Message - 
From: "Adrian Graham" 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 


Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: Reproduction micros



On 22/07/2016 10:04, "Pete Turnbull"  wrote:


On 22/07/2016 00:33, Adrian Graham wrote:

On 22/07/2016 00:07, "Liam Proven"  wrote:


There were only a few
made.  They were used internally during development - hence the podule 
to
connect it to a Beeb, which provided the I/O early on - and in the 
later

stages before the Archimedes launch in 1987, several were loaned to
software
developers.


This is the machine Dick Pountain reviewed, I think.


Pretty sure I've got 2 of those, the keyboards are made of Dark Matter. 
I've

never dared power one up though.


If you have those, I would strongly recommend you arrange an offsite
backup.  Say, about 170 miles north via the A14/A1 :-)


I remember why I've never fired them up, this is the label on the one with
the Beeb connecting podule:

http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/acorna500label.jpg

Of course 'smoke' in these PSUs just means the mains cap has blown but I'm
not sure about the fizzing.

--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Reproduction micros

[Adrian Graham]

On 22/07/2016 10:04, "Pete Turnbull"  wrote:

> On 22/07/2016 00:33, Adrian Graham wrote:
>> On 22/07/2016 00:07, "Liam Proven"  wrote:
>> 
 There were only a few
 made.  They were used internally during development - hence the podule to
 connect it to a Beeb, which provided the I/O early on - and in the later
 stages before the Archimedes launch in 1987, several were loaned to
 software
 developers.
>>> 
>>> This is the machine Dick Pountain reviewed, I think.
>> 
>> Pretty sure I've got 2 of those, the keyboards are made of Dark Matter. I've
>> never dared power one up though.
> 
> If you have those, I would strongly recommend you arrange an offsite
> backup.  Say, about 170 miles north via the A14/A1 :-)

I remember why I've never fired them up, this is the label on the one with
the Beeb connecting podule:

http://binarydinosaurs.co.uk/acorna500label.jpg

Of course 'smoke' in these PSUs just means the mains cap has blown but I'm
not sure about the fizzing.

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave 
soldered by the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 
100 boards each.


Then, there were blank boards before the shop making the boards populated 
them.  A bord could have been pulled aside at that time.

Obvious possibilities include:
1) It failed some form of quality control, even if just cosmetic or 
repairable?

2) Sample pulled aside before population for more testing.
3) An Apple technician who was fed up with trying to troubleshoot with 
crappy sockets requested/demanded/bribed the shop to populate xx of them 
with half decent sockets.  Surely Woz,himself, was fed up with the time 
that he had wasted due to the bad sockets!
4) the VERY first board got pulled aside for testing, populated 
with real sockets, wave-soldered, and then, when it passed testing, word 
was given to put crap sockets on the rest.


This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave 
soldered sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI 
sockets even though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is 
from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more 
expensive and reliable RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte 
Shop boards because of all the evidence.


None of THAT explicitly implies PREdates.
Consider,  after completion, it was noticed that there was one more board. 
Maybe they had run out of, or dumpstered, all of the crap sockets.

Or Apple employee or board shop employee simply wanted something better.


Although, in #3 above, if it were ME, I would have populated a testing 
board with Augat.



With any of these scenarios, LATER ON, when no longer needed in testing, 
or Apple lab work, the board could have been given away or sold, such as 
at Computer Swap America.  With, or without, official authorization.



There was no attempt to affix a serial number to all of the boards?
"At some point, every company realizes the need to tighten inventory."

Re: Reproduction micros

[Chuck Guzis]

On 07/21/2016 11:34 PM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:

> It's not.  Peter is talking about a four-bit field in the
> instructions. You're talking about a six-bit field in the program
> counter.


Something that's always bothered me about three-address architectures
like ARM is why there is the insistence on that scheduling bottleneck,
the condition code register?  You can see how two-address architectures
like the x80 and x86 try to get around the problem by having certain
instructions not modify certain condition code bits and even have
specialized instructions, such as JCXZ, that don't reply on a specific
condition code.

Anyone have a clue?

--Chuck

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Corey Cohen

> This board is from the 1st PCB house that made the "byte shop" boards
> but has the more expensive and reliable RN sockets. 

Maybe someone at the 1st PCB house made an extra board for themselves, and
used better sockets (since it was for themselves)?

Noel

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Fred Cisin]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
Somewhere, I have Oshino's write-up about bulb rated voltage and bulb 
operating voltage, but I do remember the lifespan varies as some power of 
the ratio, and it makes a huge difference.  (There are also formulae for 
derating brightness, etc.)

I found it -- the lifespan varies as the 12th power of the ratio.
The current varies as the 0.55 power, and the brightness as the 3.5th power 
(of the reciprocal).
So, a 12V bulb in a 28V circuit can expect 1/26000 the lifetime, and will 
take about 1.6X the current to burn about 20X brighter than normal.
A 28V bulb in a 24V circuit would last about 6.3X it's rated lifetime, take 
92% of the rated current, and about 58% as bright.


. . . and that presumably clarifies the "Livermore Firehouse Bulb".

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jul-22, at 11:00 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
> From: Vincent Slyngstad: Friday, July 22, 2016 10:39 AM
>> Somewhere, I have Oshino's write-up about bulb rated voltage and bulb 
>> operating voltage, but I do remember the lifespan varies as some power of 
>> the ratio, and it makes a huge difference.  (There are also formulae for 
>> derating brightness, etc.)
> 
> I found it -- the lifespan varies as the 12th power of the ratio.
> The current varies as the 0.55 power, and the brightness as the 3.5th power 
> (of the reciprocal).
> 
> So, a 12V bulb in a 28V circuit can expect 1/26000 the lifetime, and will 
> take about 1.6X the current to burn about 20X brighter than normal.
> 
> A 28V bulb in a 24V circuit would last about 6.3X it's rated lifetime, take 
> 92% of the rated current, and about 58% as bright.

Nice to see the data & math on that.

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Bruce Ray]

DG generally used 28V, 0.040 Ma (nominal), fragile wire-lead 
incandescent bulbs for the Nova/SuperNova/Nova2/Nova3 front panels as 
well as the early Eclipses.  The S/130 was DG's first LED-based front 
panel and was much-appreciated by Field Service.


More followup off-list...

Bruce



On 7/21/2016 10:53 PM, jim stephens wrote:

Is there anyone with documents on the Nova 3 front panel, and what
drives it?  It has some number of custom DG chips, which hopefully are
good if I want to try to fire it up to play, but am interested in that
on good authority there are 28v incandescent lamps.

A friend has an Eclipse front panel with nearly identical bezel, which
has LED's and a number of differences in the logic (different connector
to the system, for instance).  So it is probably all run on 5v.

I have not had time to figure out the driver circuit for any of the
lamps to see what that may turn up, and wanted to know whether it was
28v lamps before I buy 40 of them.  (the thing has only 2 out of a lot
of lamps).

Thanks
Jim

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Jul-22, at 10:39 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
> From: jim stephens: Friday, July 22, 2016 12:46 AM
>> On 7/22/2016 12:25 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
>>> I mentioned http://www.foxdata.com/blog/tag/nova-312/ to you earlier, which 
>>> suggested the 28V bulbs.  I also found
>>> http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/ledmod.html
>>> which makes it clear that the voltage is likely a fair bit over 12V.
>> Thanks for the tips.  I see that the foxdata site lamps don't appear quite 
>> as bright as the chookfest ones, which is interesting.  I'm thinking now if 
>> I do anything it will be the LED route, so will evaluate that, as I agree 
>> opening the thing back up will suck.
> 
> Those chookfest bulbs are doing just what I'd expect from 12V bulbs in a 28V 
> circuit -- way too bright, and then a drastically shortened lifespan.  (The 
> right bulb can last for years; the wrong one for minutes.)
> 
> I'm not a big fan of the surgery involved in LED conversion, though I 
> understand why folks do it.  Particularly if they, like Emil, have used the 
> wrong bulbs and found themselves replacing them all the time.
> 
> Somewhere, I have Oshino's write-up about bulb rated voltage and bulb 
> operating voltage, but I do remember the lifespan varies as some power of the 
> ratio, and it makes a huge difference.  (There are also formulae for derating 
> brightness, etc.)


Not to mention that the extra heat from a bulb run over-voltage can damage 
plastic front panels and light shrouds.

Even at the rated voltage, different bulb models can have a wide range of 
specified lifetimes,
from a few thousand hours to 25,000 or 40,000 or more hours.

Although the common trick with computer front panels seems to have been to just 
run bulbs under-rated,
e.g. a 6V bulb in a circuit with Vcc=5V, with some further voltage drop in the 
drive circuit the bulb sees well under 5V.

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: Vincent Slyngstad: Friday, July 22, 2016 10:39 AM
Somewhere, I have Oshino's write-up about bulb rated voltage and 
bulb operating voltage, but I do remember the lifespan varies as 
some power of the ratio, and it makes a huge difference.  (There 
are also formulae for derating brightness, etc.)


I found it -- the lifespan varies as the 12th power of the ratio.
The current varies as the 0.55 power, and the brightness as the 
3.5th power (of the reciprocal).


So, a 12V bulb in a 28V circuit can expect 1/26000 the lifetime, 
and will take about 1.6X the current to burn about 20X brighter 
than normal.


A 28V bulb in a 24V circuit would last about 6.3X it's rated lifetime, 
take 92% of the rated current, and about 58% as bright.


   Vince 

Re: HP Computer Museum in the (local) News

[Curious Marc]

Thanks for the link. My heart is sinking every time I read about Jon’s passing.

Marc

 

From: cctalk  on behalf of Rodney Brown 

Reply-To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Date: Friday, July 22, 2016 at 12:43 AM
To: "cctalk@classiccmp.org" 
Subject: HP Computer Museum in the (local) News

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-22/vintage-computer-museum-revives-hp2116a-founder-dies/7638458

 

A keen mountaineer who died trekking in Tibet has left a rare computer

collection behind as his legacy.

 

Surrounded by bushland in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne is a wooden shed

with barn doors.

 

It closely resembles a shed in California where, in 1939, Bill Hewlett and

Dave Packard launched the company that would become HP.

 

The much larger Australian shed is home to the HP Computer Museum, filled

with ageing computers, printers and calculators, most of which are a dull

light grey. ...

 

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: jim stephens: Friday, July 22, 2016 12:46 AM

On 7/22/2016 12:25 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:
I mentioned http://www.foxdata.com/blog/tag/nova-312/ to you earlier, 
which suggested the 28V bulbs.  I also found

http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/ledmod.html
which makes it clear that the voltage is likely a fair bit over 12V.


Thanks for the tips.  I see that the foxdata site lamps don't appear 
quite as bright as the chookfest ones, which is interesting.  I'm 
thinking now if I do anything it will be the LED route, so will evaluate 
that, as I agree opening the thing back up will suck.


Those chookfest bulbs are doing just what I'd expect from 12V bulbs 
in a 28V circuit -- way too bright, and then a drastically shortened 
lifespan.  (The right bulb can last for years; the wrong one for 
minutes.)


I'm not a big fan of the surgery involved in LED conversion, though 
I understand why folks do it.  Particularly if they, like Emil, have used 
the wrong bulbs and found themselves replacing them all the time.


Somewhere, I have Oshino's write-up about bulb rated voltage and 
bulb operating voltage, but I do remember the lifespan varies as 
some power of the ratio, and it makes a huge difference.  (There 
are also formulae for derating brightness, etc.)


   Vince 

Re: How to open a SUN CDROM drive box?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
>> There are a couple of locking tabs on the sides in the back corner.
>> You poke at them through the holes in the outer shell.  They look
>> decorative.  Two of them are not.
>
> That did the trick! Thanks! I think I never would have found out by
> myself...

Excellent!

>> > The drive doesn't seem to work properly. Either I need to get it working
>> > somehow or replace it with a new (512 byte block capable) drive.
>
> It can eject the caddy. But I am not really sure it actually rotates. Maybe
> some lubricant has became a little too sticky over the years. The activity
> LED lights up when the caddy is inserted and then goes dark after some very
> low noise inside.  Nothing more happens and the SUN machine just sits there
> doing nothing.
>
> BTW. It is a SONY drive.

If you have a modern machine with SCSI, you could try it there.  I
think a Linux box would give you better error messages, but even a
Windows machine could tell you something.

I'd be looking in my logs for the report that it's on the bus, and any
traffic that occurs on insertion or when you try to mount the media,
and see if lights blink then, etc.

OTOH, it's probably not hard to find an old Sony or Plextor mech to
drop in there, as long as it has the 512-byte jumper set (ISTR there
are some drives that's it's a solder-blob option).

-ethan

Re: How to open a SUN CDROM drive box?

[Mattis Lind]

>
> There are a couple of locking tabs on the sides in the back corner.
> You poke at them through the holes in the outer shell.  They look
> decorative.  Two of them are not.
>
> Once you depress one, lift lightly on that back corner and it should
> move up 1mm-2mm.  Do the other corner and the back of the lid should
> tip up towards the front.  It has some large plastic tabs on the front
> edge that act as a hinge, then it pops off, exposing the innards.
>

That did the trick! Thanks! I think I never would have found out by
myself...


>
> > The drive doesn't seem to work properly. Either I need to get it working
> > somehow or replace it with a new (512 byte block capable) drive.
>
> Could be a lot of things, but a new drive would probably solve most
> problems.  It also depends if the problems are on the SCSI side (won't
> respond, is at wrong unit number, etc.) or the optical side (can't
> read any media) or in between (can't eject caddy...)
>

It can eject the caddy. But I am not really sure it actually rotates. Maybe
some lubricant has became a little too sticky over the years. The activity
LED lights up when the caddy is inserted and then goes dark after some very
low noise inside.  Nothing more happens and the SUN machine just sits there
doing nothing.

BTW. It is a SONY drive.

>
> -ethan
>

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

There were no blank boards.  That's the key.  The sockets were wave soldered by 
the PCB manufacturer according to Woz. There were 2 runs of 100 boards each.  

This is also an early layout board (Non NTI) but with different wave soldered 
sockets than the two known production runs which both used TI sockets even 
though they were from a different PCB house.  This board is from the 1st PCB 
house that made the "byte shop" boards but has the more expensive and reliable 
RN sockets.  Which implies it predates the Byte Shop boards because of all the 
evidence.

Cheers,
Corey 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

On Jul 22, 2016, at 10:24 AM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

>>> "Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
>>> current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he got 
>>> it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
>> The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the two 
>> known production runs.  It was assembled at a different time.
> 
> So, somebody, perhaps an Apple employee, walked off with a board and 
> assembled it.
> The first gray/black market unauthorized Apple.
> 
> Every company has a moment when they realize that they need to tighten up 
> inventory control.
> 
> 
> 

Looking for HP 9810A keyboard springs

[Camiel Vanderhoeven]

Hi Guys,

I've got an HP 9810A that has been stored in sub-optimal conditions by
a previous owner; a lot of the keyboard springs have rusted away, so
I'm looking for a replacement. These are about 15.5mm outer diameter,
0.35mm thick wire, about 10mm high when uncompressed, and have only
about 1.5 turns of wire.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Camiel.

Re: How to open a SUN CDROM drive box?

[E. Groenenberg]

Mattis,

Seen from the front, use a pencil or whatever fits in the holes and
count 3 (or 2) holes from the back of each side and push it gently in.
There is a notch on each side which locks the cover.

Regards,

Ed
--
Ik email, dus ik besta.
BTC : 1J5fajt8ptyZ2V1YURj3YJZhe5j3fJVSHN
LTC : LP2WuEmYPbpWUBqMFGJfdm7pdHEW7fKvDz

On Fri, July 22, 2016 16:35, Mattis Lind wrote:
> I am probably too stupid to not understand how to get into this box:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/7KXKP2l.jpg
>
> Before I break some parts of the old plastic I better ask...
>
> What is the procedure to open this up?
>
> The drive doesn't seem to work properly. Either I need to get it working
> somehow or replace it with a new (512 byte block capable) drive.
>
> /Mattis
>

Re: WANTED: PDP-8 KE8E Extended arithmetic element

[Anders Sandahl]

>You used to be able to find a set with connector blocks for $200 to $300
>range on EBay.  But I haven't seen any pop up for a couple of years now.
>

There are actually two individual board on eBay now, but the they are a
bit expensive, ~$250 each. The freight change is about $200 to Sweden for
each board (don't now if they combine chipping). I'll guess I have to pay
for customs as well...


>Keep an eye on machines.  These options were found in the variants of E's
>(F and M) and some A's.  You might have to buy another machine in order to
>get this option.
>

If I only could find one...

>Remember that you are looking for what I would classify as a fairly rare
>option on machines that are becoming rare now.  There are not a lot of
>these machines in service anymore.
>
>Good Luck!

Thanks, I know that those things starts to get really rare. I could live
with a broken set.

/Anders

Re: Reproduction micros

[Adam Sampson]

Lars Brinkhoff  writes:

> The link you posted above says "Sophie maintains that "inspired by"
> isn't the right choice of words." [...] I'm just genuinely curious
> exactly which features of the 6502 and ARM instruction sets people
> think are so alike?

I've always interpreted the "inspired by" description as being about
*how* the ARM was designed, rather than about the design itself. There's
a story Sophie Wilson's told in several interviews about a visit to
WDC...

>From The Inquirer:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/feature/1687452/birth-world-beater

| A visit Wilson and her colleague Steve Furber made to the Western
| Design Centre at Phoenix, Arizona, to check out a successor to the
| 6502 has passed into UK computing legend.
|
| The two British engineers, expecting high-tech buildings bristling
| with expert brains, were astonished to find just two developers
| working in a bungalow with "a bunch of college kids" on holiday
| jobs. "We came away thinking if they can do it, so can we."

Later in the same article:

| The instruction set, Wilson said, "came from that strange place inside
| my head where computer design comes from. Most engineers like to
| proceed from A to B to C in a series of logical steps. I'm the rare
| engineer who says the answer is obviously Z and we will get on with
| that while you guys work out how to do all the intermediate steps. It
| makes me a dangerous person to employ in IT but a useful one."

-- 
Adam Sampson  

RE: Nova 3 front panel

[Jay West]

Jim wrote...
---
Jay did your DG stuff on the back dock move?  just curious
---

Not yet. One listmember expressed interest but nothing firm. Two racks of 
DGblue just waiting for someone to cart them off ;) One is an S/200 and it uses 
bulbs. My S/130 uses LEDS I seem to recall, but haven't had the panel open in a 
good while.

My DG Eclipse S/130 project is at a long  impasse for now.

But once the S/130 project is done I'll be diving into a sizeable pile of nova 
800/1200 stuff and I'll have DGtonnage to make go away then

I do not have a Nova3, but I will see if I have any docs that speak to the 
bulbs used there.

J

Re: How to open a SUN CDROM drive box?

[Ethan Dicks]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Mattis Lind  wrote:
> I am probably too stupid to not understand how to get into this box:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/7KXKP2l.jpg
>
> Before I break some parts of the old plastic I better ask...
>
> What is the procedure to open this up?

There are a couple of locking tabs on the sides in the back corner.
You poke at them through the holes in the outer shell.  They look
decorative.  Two of them are not.

Once you depress one, lift lightly on that back corner and it should
move up 1mm-2mm.  Do the other corner and the back of the lid should
tip up towards the front.  It has some large plastic tabs on the front
edge that act as a hinge, then it pops off, exposing the innards.

> The drive doesn't seem to work properly. Either I need to get it working
> somehow or replace it with a new (512 byte block capable) drive.

Could be a lot of things, but a new drive would probably solve most
problems.  It also depends if the problems are on the SCSI side (won't
respond, is at wrong unit number, etc.) or the optical side (can't
read any media) or in between (can't eject caddy...)

-ethan

How to open a SUN CDROM drive box?

[Mattis Lind]

I am probably too stupid to not understand how to get into this box:

http://i.imgur.com/7KXKP2l.jpg

Before I break some parts of the old plastic I better ask...

What is the procedure to open this up?

The drive doesn't seem to work properly. Either I need to get it working
somehow or replace it with a new (512 byte block capable) drive.

/Mattis

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Fred Cisin]

"Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he 
got it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.


On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Corey Cohen wrote:
The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the 
two known production runs.  It was assembled at a different time.


So, somebody, perhaps an Apple employee, walked off with a board and 
assembled it.

The first gray/black market unauthorized Apple.

Every company has a moment when they realize that they need to tighten up 
inventory control.

Re: Reproduction micros

[Liam Proven]

On 22 July 2016 at 10:26, Pete Turnbull  wrote:
> I took that as "SA110 came in a plastic QFP, ..., with threaded shanks".
>
> I see that what you evidently meant was "the Alpha, which had threaded
> shanks".

Well, no, I meant to write exactly what I did write, drawing a
comparison between the two. However, you have made me aware of the
possible ambiguity in the sentence.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction

[Corey Cohen]

The key to this board is the evidence it wasn't part of either of the two known 
production runs.  It was assembled at a different time. 

corey cohen
uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ

> On Jul 21, 2016, at 10:54 PM, TeoZ  wrote:
> 
> "Original owner believed to be an early Apple employee ". You have the 
> current owner who has a receipt from the previous owner who had said he got 
> it from "maybe" an Apple employee back in 1977.
> 
> -Original Message- From: Evan Koblentz
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2016 10:26 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Possibly rarest Apple 1 ever for auction
> 
>> The article doesn't appear to say, but does anyone know where this Apple
>> came from?
> 
> Go to http://apple1.charitybuzz.com/ and click "provenance". 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 

Re: Reproduction micros

[Pete Turnbull]

On 22/07/2016 00:56, Paul Koning wrote:

PLCC and PQFP both are plastic packages with leads on all 4 sides.
But PLCC specifically means a package with J-leads: the legs come out
the package side, go straight down, and tuck under the package in a
J-shaped curve.  PQFP (and variations with similar acronyms) have
"gull wing" leads: out the side, down to near the board, and then
outward resting on the board.

SA110 is definitely PQFP.


The StrongARM data sheet does actually show all three types: PLCC, PQFP,
and PPGA.  All of mine are PPGA.

--
Pete

HP Computer Museum in the (local) News

[Rodney Brown]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-22/vintage-computer-museum-revives-hp2116a-founder-dies/7638458

A keen mountaineer who died trekking in Tibet has left a rare computer
collection behind as his legacy.

Surrounded by bushland in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne is a wooden shed
with barn doors.

It closely resembles a shed in California where, in 1939, Bill Hewlett and
Dave Packard launched the company that would become HP.

The much larger Australian shed is home to the HP Computer Museum, filled
with ageing computers, printers and calculators, most of which are a dull
light grey. ...

Re: Reproduction micros

[Peter Corlett]

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:55:26PM -0600, ben wrote:
[...]
> A read and cuss item I see. Thank you, but it seems it is still big $$$ for
> good compiler to follow the ever changing rules.

Eh? The LLVM backend generates excellent code for at least x86 and ARM, and is
effectively BSD-licenced.

Re: Reproduction micros

[Pete Turnbull]

On 22/07/2016 00:33, Adrian Graham wrote:

On 22/07/2016 00:07, "Liam Proven"  wrote:


There were only a few
made.  They were used internally during development - hence the podule to
connect it to a Beeb, which provided the I/O early on - and in the later
stages before the Archimedes launch in 1987, several were loaned to software
developers.


This is the machine Dick Pountain reviewed, I think.


Pretty sure I've got 2 of those, the keyboards are made of Dark Matter. I've
never dared power one up though.


If you have those, I would strongly recommend you arrange an offsite 
backup.  Say, about 170 miles north via the A14/A1 :-)


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Reproduction micros

[Pete Turnbull]

On 22/07/2016 00:07, Liam Proven wrote:

On 21 July 2016 at 23:26, Pete Turnbull 
wrote:



There were only a few made.  They were used internally during
development - hence the podule to connect it to a Beeb, which
provided the I/O early on - and in the later stages before the
Archimedes launch in 1987, several were loaned to software
developers.


This is the machine Dick Pountain reviewed, I think.


Indeed, the Personal Computer World August '87 article does mention he 
had an A500 on loan, though the photos are of an A310. They appear to me 
to be Acorn stock photos, which I remember being shot in June (IIRC) 1987.
  It seems he had an A310 by the time he wrote the article for Byte 
Vol.12 No.11, though.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Reproduction micros

[Pete Turnbull]

On 22/07/2016 00:07, Liam Proven wrote:

On 21 July 2016 at 23:26, Pete Turnbull 



Hmm.  Never seen one like that.  None of the ones I've seen in
real life are PQFPs, and none have a heatsink.


Perhaps you misread my message.


Ah, I misunderstood.  You wrote:


The SA110 came in a plastic QFP, and it came from the same company
and around the same time as the Alpha, with threaded shanks on the
packaging for screwing a heatsink into place. Spoke volumes. :-)


I took that as "SA110 came in a plastic QFP, ..., with threaded shanks".

I see that what you evidently meant was "the Alpha, which had threaded 
shanks".


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Multiflow Trace 14/300 close to being scrapped in Texas

[Chris Hanson]

On Jul 21, 2016, at 8:09 PM, Mark Linimon  wrote:
> 
> I see that someone has picked it up via Buy It Now.  No,
> it wasn't me.

I know the person who acquired it, who last I heard is seeking a good way to 
move and safely store it near its current site right now. If anyone has any 
suggestions, I can forward them along.

  -- Chris

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[jim stephens]

On 7/22/2016 12:25 AM, Vincent Slyngstad wrote:

From: jim stephens: Thursday, July 21, 2016 9:53 PM
I have not had time to figure out the driver circuit for any of the 
lamps to see what that may turn up, and wanted to know whether it was 
28v lamps before I buy 40 of them.  (the thing has only 2 out of a 
lot of lamps).


I mentioned http://www.foxdata.com/blog/tag/nova-312/ to you earlier, 
which suggested the 28V bulbs.  I also found

http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/ledmod.html
which makes it clear that the voltage is likely a fair bit over 12V.

The DG Components guide only lists part numbers for the 28V bulbs, 24V 
bulbs, 5V, and 6V bulbs (at least that I found that fit with the wire 
base and the form factor).  I think installing 28V bulbs in 24V 
circuits would be fine (they'd last longer).


Alas, I have no authoritative information on the exact correct bulb.

That's not a problem.  I was also interested in the info if I ever get 
around to using it for a simh front panel blink'n version. Unless a Nova 
3 drops in my lap.  (and still would want info).


Thanks for the tips.  I see that the foxdata site lamps don't appear 
quite as bright as the chookfest ones, which is interesting.  I'm 
thinking now if I do anything it will be the LED route, so will evaluate 
that, as I agree opening the thing back up will suck.


Jay did your DG stuff on the back dock move?  just curious.  PM if you like.
thanks
Jim

   Vince

Re: Nova 3 front panel

[Vincent Slyngstad]

From: jim stephens: Thursday, July 21, 2016 9:53 PM
I have not had time to figure out the driver circuit for any of the 
lamps to see what that may turn up, and wanted to know whether it was 
28v lamps before I buy 40 of them.  (the thing has only 2 out of a lot 
of lamps).


I mentioned http://www.foxdata.com/blog/tag/nova-312/ to you 
earlier, which suggested the 28V bulbs.  I also found

http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/ledmod.html
which makes it clear that the voltage is likely a fair bit over 12V.

The DG Components guide only lists part numbers for the 
28V bulbs, 24V bulbs, 5V, and 6V bulbs (at least that I found 
that fit with the wire base and the form factor).  I think installing 
28V bulbs in 24V circuits would be fine (they'd last longer).


Alas, I have no authoritative information on the exact correct 
bulb.


   Vince 

Re: Reproduction micros

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Liam Proven writes:
> Peter Corlett wrote:
>> In ARM, *all* instructions can be predicated. Because instructions
>> are 32 bits wide, it has the luxury of allocating four bits to select
>> from one of 16 possible predicates based on the CPU flags.
>
> If I understand it correctly, this caused considerable problems for
> the RISC OS people later. The original Acorn ARM machines used 26 bits
> of the program counter as the PC, and the rest as flags.
>
> I'm not sure this is the same phenomenon you're describing.

It's not.  Peter is talking about a four-bit field in the instructions.
You're talking about a six-bit field in the program counter.

Re: Reproduction micros

[Cameron Kaiser]

> An occasionally forgotten feature is that ALU operations also have a S-bit to
> indicate whether they should update the flags based on the result, or leave
> them alone.

Power ISA also has this feature (the so-called "dot" instructions). It also
has special forms of instructions for setting the overflow and carry flags,
when appropriate.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- "Garbage in -- gospel out" -