Re: Mark-8 opinion question

[steven]

 Original Message 
Subject: Mark-8 opinion question
From:"Brad H" 
Date:Wed, October 12, 2016 2:38 pm
To:  "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" 

--

> I asked this on vcfed and I don't know how much overlap there is here so I
> apologize if this is hitting all the same people over again.  As some are
> aware I recently won an auction for 9 original Mark-8 boards (it has 4 1k
> RAM boards).  To say I was elated would be an understatement - I certainly
> have some unusual stuff in my collection but this is something truly rare.
>
>
>
> And these are rare both in their own right and for what they are - unused.
> Pretty much spotless.
>
>
>
> I feel kind of in a bind about it now though.  As an amateur historian, my
> first impulse is to stick em in a frame and hang em.  Not even lay a finger
> on them.  But I've a stubborn practical side.  Like that guy that has an
> original AC Shelby Cobra and actually drives the thing.  He was asked why
> he'd actually drive such a rare and valuable vehicle and he said 'What's the
> point of a car you don't drive?'.But then he can say that - that Shelby
> doesn't have zero miles on it.
>
>
>
> Realistically, I'm never likely to own a complete, vintage Mark-8.  There
> are simply too few of them and I couldn't afford one even if one popped up
> (I could afford the computer, just not the divorce afterwards :)).  So here
> I am with one path to having one that would be, by virtue of the boards, way
> more legit than a clone, but still have that 'built in 2016' asterisk beside
> its name for serious collectors.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I'm just soliciting opinions from those I haven't already heard
> from.  This is just for the purpose of discussion, because I'm sure this
> isn't the first and won't be the last time somebody buying vintage gear runs
> into a situation like this.  Whatever I end up doing, it will not happen for
> years anyway.  I'm not at a skill level yet to pull it off, and I'd still
> like to build that clone first and see what I achieve before touching
> priceless originals.
>

It sounds like you've already made your mind up. If it were me, I would
not build on the originals. I would engage someone to repop the boards,
their labour cost would be recouped with the sale of a few sets.
What I would do is make sure the repops are easily identifiable as such
so that they are not in future passed off as orignals at the same time as
preserving your investment in the real thing.

I recall seeing photos of a WWI biplane fighter being restored by the 
Smithsonian,
and on the new pieces of wood they used to replace damaged or missing fillets,
longerons and other parts of the airframe they had clearly stamped 
'REPRODUCTION'
so that future conservators would know what was original and what was not.

Steve.

Mark-8 opinion question

[Brad H]

I asked this on vcfed and I don't know how much overlap there is here so I
apologize if this is hitting all the same people over again.  As some are
aware I recently won an auction for 9 original Mark-8 boards (it has 4 1k
RAM boards).  To say I was elated would be an understatement - I certainly
have some unusual stuff in my collection but this is something truly rare.

 

And these are rare both in their own right and for what they are - unused.
Pretty much spotless.

 

I feel kind of in a bind about it now though.  As an amateur historian, my
first impulse is to stick em in a frame and hang em.  Not even lay a finger
on them.  But I've a stubborn practical side.  Like that guy that has an
original AC Shelby Cobra and actually drives the thing.  He was asked why
he'd actually drive such a rare and valuable vehicle and he said 'What's the
point of a car you don't drive?'.But then he can say that - that Shelby
doesn't have zero miles on it.

 

Realistically, I'm never likely to own a complete, vintage Mark-8.  There
are simply too few of them and I couldn't afford one even if one popped up
(I could afford the computer, just not the divorce afterwards :)).  So here
I am with one path to having one that would be, by virtue of the boards, way
more legit than a clone, but still have that 'built in 2016' asterisk beside
its name for serious collectors.

 

Anyway, I'm just soliciting opinions from those I haven't already heard
from.  This is just for the purpose of discussion, because I'm sure this
isn't the first and won't be the last time somebody buying vintage gear runs
into a situation like this.  Whatever I end up doing, it will not happen for
years anyway.  I'm not at a skill level yet to pull it off, and I'd still
like to build that clone first and see what I achieve before touching
priceless originals.

Remember Data Printer Corp?

[Richard Loken]

While falling over Sun and DEC manuals I also found a complete set of
manuals for a great and massive Data Printer Corporation line printer
in four volumes:

Data Printer Corp Chaintrain Line Printer
Models CT-4964 CT-6644 CT-7484

parts and diagrams
operating
maintenance
principles of operation

Yours for the postage but I doubt anybody wants them.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

DECwriter II and Decwriter III engineering drawings

[Richard Loken]

I have fallen a across a bound set of LA36 and LA120 engineering drawings.
Anybody want them for the cost of mailing them?

Remember the good old days when you not only got a printer but detailed
service information including a big set of engineering drawings?  Sigh.

--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

RE: Getting out of the hobby

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 5:41 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: RE: Getting out of the hobby

On Oct 11, 2016 3:48 PM, "Brad H" 
wrote:
> I always enjoyed the repair aspect of the hobby more than use, 
> although I
do
> enjoy some use.  The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost 
> a letdown when something is already just working.

>Weird Stuff Warehouse used to put "Guaranteed Not to Work" stickers on some of 
>the items they sold. One time I >bought an Atari 800 with such a sticker, 
>intending to part it out to repair other machines. To my dismay, it worked 
>>perfectly. I went back and complained. They said I was the only person to 
>have ever complained, but that they would >honor the guarantee if I brought it 
>back, i.e., they would break it for me.

That is hilarious, and awesome. :)  It really does kind of suck the fun out of 
it.  When I got my Digital Group Z80 I couldn't even find a photo of one 
operating with something on the screen.  Mine wasn't operating at all so I 
literally had no idea what to expect.  When I finally got a (corrupted) prompt 
it was like discovering an ancient Egyptian tomb.  Sort of. :)  I can't wait to 
try getting my Phideck working with it.

Manuaal for the original Sun Workstation

[Richard Loken]

While rooting through the shop I found the user's manual for the original
Sun Workstation.  The computer is long gone but the manual returned to
haunt me.  It is devoid of pictures, logos, and fancy fonts and labelled
revision C December 1982.

Anybody want it for the cost of postage?

--
   Richard Loken VE6BSV, Unix System Administrator : "Anyone can be a father
   Athabasca University:  but you have to earn
   Athabasca, Alberta Canada   :  the title of 'daddy'"
   ** t...@athabascau.ca **:  - Lynn Johnston
--
This communication is intended for the use of the recipient to whom it is 
addressed, and may contain confidential, personal, and or privileged 
information. Please contact us immediately if you are not the intended 
recipient of this communication, and do not copy, distribute, or take action 
relying on it. Any communications received in error, or subsequent reply, 
should be deleted or destroyed.
---



--
  Richard Loken VE6BSV, Systems Programmer - VMS   : "...underneath those
  Athabasca University : tuques we wear, our
  Athabasca, Alberta Canada: heads are naked!"
  ** rllo...@telus.net ** :- Arthur Black

Re: Getting out of the hobby

[Alexandre Souza]

When I decided my collection gave more troubles than fun, I stored
everything in plastic boxes and stashed on a room at my mother's house.
Some years later...ta-daaa! :D Happiness forever! :D

2016-10-12 1:19 GMT-03:00 Paul Anderson :

> Hi Seth,
>
> I'm sorry to see anyone leave the list or the hobby for any reason, but
> especially because of comments made on the list.
>
> I strongly agree with Rob.  Hang on to some of your favorite toys. You
> never know when you might want to play with them again. I have a lot of
> regrets from letting go a lot of equipment that I might never find again.
>
> Paul
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Cameron Kaiser 
> wrote:
>
> > > > The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost a
> > > > letdown when something is already just working.
> > >
> > > Weird Stuff Warehouse used to put "Guaranteed Not to Work" stickers on
> > some
> > > of the items they sold. One time I bought an Atari 800 with such a
> > sticker,
> > > intending to part it out to repair other machines. To my dismay, it
> > worked
> > > perfectly. I went back and complained. They said I was the only person
> to
> > > have ever complained, but that they would honor the guarantee if I
> > brought
> > > it back, i.e., they would break it for me.
> >
> > It's that attention to quality and customer satisfaction that is so
> sorely
> > lacking today.
> >
> > --
> >  personal:
> > http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
> >   Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> > ckai...@floodgap.com
> > -- Drive defensively ... buy a tank. --
> > 
> >
>

Re: Getting out of the hobby

[Paul Anderson]

Hi Seth,

I'm sorry to see anyone leave the list or the hobby for any reason, but
especially because of comments made on the list.

I strongly agree with Rob.  Hang on to some of your favorite toys. You
never know when you might want to play with them again. I have a lot of
regrets from letting go a lot of equipment that I might never find again.

Paul

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 9:19 PM, Cameron Kaiser 
wrote:

> > > The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost a
> > > letdown when something is already just working.
> >
> > Weird Stuff Warehouse used to put "Guaranteed Not to Work" stickers on
> some
> > of the items they sold. One time I bought an Atari 800 with such a
> sticker,
> > intending to part it out to repair other machines. To my dismay, it
> worked
> > perfectly. I went back and complained. They said I was the only person to
> > have ever complained, but that they would honor the guarantee if I
> brought
> > it back, i.e., they would break it for me.
>
> It's that attention to quality and customer satisfaction that is so sorely
> lacking today.
>
> --
>  personal:
> http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
>   Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
> ckai...@floodgap.com
> -- Drive defensively ... buy a tank. --
> 
>

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Zane Healy]

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 1:56 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Peter Corlett  wrote:
>> Find better games :)
>> 
>> The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games and
>> gaming systems...
> 
> I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
> to 1995.  Specifically, things that require Windows and a Pentium and
> newer are out of bounds.  I'm attempting to breathe some excitement

This is my main area of interest these days, when it comes to vintage hardware, 
though I’m focused on 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Gen video game systems, especially 2nd 
and 4th.  Oddly enough, I’m not messing with the computers, still, here are 
some ideas.

VIC-20:
Miner 2049er
River Raid
Omega Race
Gorf
Scramble

Commodore 64:
Omega Race

Amiga:
Tons of good games

PC:
Balance of Power
Zork 
Wasteland
MS Flight Simulator
F16
X-Wing/TIE Fighter
Master of Orion - I’m a massive fan of the original game
Warlords
Warlords II
Comanche
D Gold Box games
Eye of the Beholder

68k Mac:
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
Master of Orion (higher res than PC)
Warlords II (higher res than PC)

VAX/VMS:
DnD (reason enough for me to keep a VAX around)

PDP-11:
Pac-Man (cool to see on a VT)

Zane

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[ethan]

It's not bad. I have it on an Indy, which is where I played it originally
(wasting time at the Salk Institute as an undergrad -- we used the SGIs for
visualization of X-ray crystallography). There is also a decent SGI port of
Quake.


When I worked at NASA they had a copy of Cave Quake. It could run on SGI 
Onyx2 (16 processor full rack with 4 graphics outputs.) The graphics 
outputs hit fiber converters that fed the video downstairs to 4 fiber 
receivers, then into 4 Electrohome CRT projectors. Left front and right 
walls were rear projected, 4th projector was overhead hitting bounce 
mirror then floor. It was running 120hz I believe, 60hz per eye with IR 
xmitters for crystal eyes LCD shutter glasses. The CRT projectors were 
special with fast phosphor CRTs.


 There was some sorta spatial tracked controller as well -- it was 
tethered by cable as I recall. It was kind of neat but the game showed 
weakness since you could look to the right and see the monsters walking 
towards you but caught on the edge of the wall -- had to advance a bit 
then they would come for you. I remember it was strange seeing the medical 
kit clipping through my leg.




--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Cameron Kaiser]

> I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
> discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.

It's not bad. I have it on an Indy, which is where I played it originally
(wasting time at the Salk Institute as an undergrad -- we used the SGIs for
visualization of X-ray crystallography). There is also a decent SGI port of
Quake.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- One can live in Paris ... on just grief and anguish. -- Henry Miller ---

Re: Getting out of the hobby

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost a
> > letdown when something is already just working.
> 
> Weird Stuff Warehouse used to put "Guaranteed Not to Work" stickers on some
> of the items they sold. One time I bought an Atari 800 with such a sticker,
> intending to part it out to repair other machines. To my dismay, it worked
> perfectly. I went back and complained. They said I was the only person to
> have ever complained, but that they would honor the guarantee if I brought
> it back, i.e., they would break it for me.

It's that attention to quality and customer satisfaction that is so sorely
lacking today.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Drive defensively ... buy a tank. --

Re: Looking for Sellam and his sale site

[Adrian Stoness]

Crazy phone glitches eh

On Oct 11, 2016 9:09 PM, "Evan Koblentz"  wrote:

> Sellam, are you out there?
>>
>
> I texted him a picture of your email.  He replied saying the text went
> through 36 times (!) so, at any rate, he's alive. :)
>

Re: Getting out of the hobby

[Marc Howard]

Sigh.  For a second there I thought you were going to be getting rid of an
11/45.  That would be my dream machine as I used one at Ohio State in the
very early days (mid 70's) of computer graphics.  I designed one frame
buffer and part of another to run on that machine.

Marc

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 1:41 PM,  wrote:

> That is a real shame, but if you aren't enjoying it there us little point
> carrying on. I also have to agree that it is dispiriting at times when you
> are constantly dealing with new failures.
>
> I suspect though that years later you may regret getting rid of your
> collection, you hear this from many people. So I would suggest you don't
> get rid of *everything*, in case you change your mind in the future.
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> From: Seth Morabito

Re: Looking for Sellam and his sale site

[Evan Koblentz]

Sellam, are you out there?


I texted him a picture of your email.  He replied saying the text went 
through 36 times (!) so, at any rate, he's alive. :)

RE: Getting out of the hobby

[Eric Smith]

On Oct 11, 2016 3:48 PM, "Brad H" 
wrote:
> I always enjoyed the repair aspect of the hobby more than use, although I
do
> enjoy some use.  The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost a
> letdown when something is already just working.

Weird Stuff Warehouse used to put "Guaranteed Not to Work" stickers on some
of the items they sold. One time I bought an Atari 800 with such a sticker,
intending to part it out to repair other machines. To my dismay, it worked
perfectly. I went back and complained. They said I was the only person to
have ever complained, but that they would honor the guarantee if I brought
it back, i.e., they would break it for me.

Re: Getting out of the hobby

[Terry Stewart]

Yes, some things I've enjoy about the hobby is..

1. Admiring the "design" aspect of machines back in those days (all unique
and all different) and experiencing them hands-on
2. Learning about the machines, their origins and purpose (from reading,
watching videos and hands on)  and thereby learning a lot about computer
history
3, Writing about them, videoing them.
4. Talking with others about them
5. Repairing them (and thereby learning a lot about digital electronics)

It's not my only hobby though, and VC doesn't dominate my life.  The
nostalgic factor with me is not great.  I was an adult before they were
popular (or in school) so I was never in my bedroom playing games with
others in my formative years.  Although I did play games as an adult (some
arcade but esp, text-based Adventure games), my interest in them at the
time was always more as productivity tools, in particular for writing and
statistical analysis. There is SOME nostalgia in the TRS-80-type
culture...I can't deny that but I'm certainly not that interested in the
retro-gamer scene.

I've got very limited room, which means I've been very disciplined with
what I've got.

Eventually I hope to run a few private, temporary exhibitions, perhaps in
our local museum...maybe when I retire.

What will happen to them when I become old and infirm?  Well, who knows.  I
do have a daughter and step-son who are IT specialists.  They may or may
not be interested.  As it is, I'm still happy to pull them out, admire
them, reflect on the period they represent and keep them going if I can.

Terry (Tez)

P.S. Chuck, please stay active in the community.  Your knowledge is on
disks and disk formats is legendary. Many (including me) appreciate the
help you've given them.

RE: Getting out of the hobby

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Seth
Morabito
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 1:07 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Getting out of the hobby

Hey folks,

Recent activity on the list, especially the "Ka... ching!" thread, has had
me reevaluating a lot of what I get out of this hobby. I think there are two
things going on that make it less fun for me now: The money, and the age of
the stuff. I'll try to explain.

I've never been a real "collector", I suppose. I don't feel a burning need
to fill every hole in a product line, or to put things on display.
I've also never been in this for the money, far from it. No, the only reason
I've ever collected classic computers is because I've loved playing with
them. That's really all there is to it. I enjoy the sights, sounds, and
smells of firing up vintage computers and seeing them work.

I'm not sure yet what that means for my current collection. It's already
much smaller than it once was, as I've found homes for a lot of things over
the years. I've moved a lot, and every time I've moved I've found homes for
things I didn't want to take with me. It's probably time to do that again,
only without the moving part.

I think probably I'll have one last big "sale" of stuff, which I'll post
about here. At this point most of what I have is vintage home computers,
terminals, and QBUS PDP-11 stuff, so not everyone will be interested in it
-- but maybe some people will.

-Seth
--
> Seth Morabito
>w...@loomcom.com

I hear ya, especially on the hospice stuff.  This is an issue if you're
collecting cars newer than the mid-80s.. some of the computers (ie. ABS
controller) aren't available anymore and repairs are not possible.  On older
cars you could always make what you didn't have (at great expense, yes) but
at least you could theoretically do it.  Not likely with ICs.

I always enjoyed the repair aspect of the hobby more than use, although I do
enjoy some use.  The learning is the best part, I think.  It's almost a
letdown when something is already just working.

Hunting would be really fun -- I had that experience with cars but not
computers.  Just doesn't seem to be much vintage stuff to hunt for in my
part of British Columbia.

Sorry to hear you're leaving.  Best to you regardless!

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[alex d]

- Original Message -
> From: "Ethan Dicks" 
> Subject: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[... snip ...]
>and curses-based UNIX games, and would like to add more platforms.  I'm
> especially interested in any favorites that run on dumb terminals (I
> have numerous ones to bring in, and have a VT220 already in the
> collection).
> If you've played anything in the past 3 years, I'd especially like to
> hear about it since that speaks to enjoyment and replayability.  If
> you like it, someone here will probably like it too.

rogue or anything rogue-like - nethack comes to mind 8-)

I started playing it in the mid 80's. Still play it today. I have it on my 
iPad, Android phone, Mac Desktop and a whole slew of
Unix boxes (SGI/Sun/IBM/DEC) and even (ughhh!) a PC/Linux laptop... It's 
usually the first thing that gets
installed/compiled on a new machine/platform.

The only experience that will top the above, is feeding some quarters in a "Fun 
House" or "Black Knight" pinball machine...

RE: Getting out of the hobby

[robert.jarratt]

That is a real shame, but if you aren't enjoying it there us little point 
carrying on. I also have to agree that it is dispiriting at times when you are 
constantly dealing with new failures.

I suspect though that years later you may regret getting rid of your 
collection, you hear this from many people. So I would suggest you don't get 
rid of *everything*, in case you change your mind in the future.

Regards

Rob

Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: Seth Morabito

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Ken Seefried]

I thought this sort of thing was what the various target-mode SCSI
frameworks were designed for?  I seem to remember at least one of them
had emulated tape drives backed by files.

KJ

Getting out of the hobby

[Seth Morabito]

Hey folks,

Recent activity on the list, especially the "Ka... ching!" thread, has
had me reevaluating a lot of what I get out of this hobby. I think there
are two things going on that make it less fun for me now: The money,
and the age of the stuff. I'll try to explain.

I've never been a real "collector", I suppose. I don't feel a burning
need to fill every hole in a product line, or to put things on display.
I've also never been in this for the money, far from it. No, the only
reason I've ever collected classic computers is because I've loved
playing with them. That's really all there is to it. I enjoy the sights,
sounds, and smells of firing up vintage computers and seeing them work.

On the money front, as I said I've never been in this for the money.
There was a time when most of this stuff could just be had for free, and
that was fun! Going on rescue trips was a blast. I'll never regret
driving down to LA from the Bay Area to rescue a PDP-11/34, or the time
that a bunch of us got togethr and picked up an 11/45 and an Imlac PDS-1
from Bill Gosper's house. What a time that was -- I didn't even keep any
of it, I was just there for the rescue and the camaraderie.

But nowadays, there's so much less of that. 99% of what trades hands
seems to go back and forth on eBay for real big bucks. And that's
probably just the sign of a maturing hobby, but it's not really what I
enjoy.

And secondly, lately there's been a lot less of "firing up vintage
computers and seeing them work", and a whole lot more "carefully
replacing capacitors and praying that the vintage computer will still
fire up".  We've reached the point where the hardware I love is dying.
It's been dying for years, I suppose, but now it's in hospice care. And,
frankly, that part of it is so much less fun for me than actually using
the systems. Am I just lazy? Maybe. And don't get me wrong, I've learned
SO MUCH about electronics from taking care of these systems, so I don't
consider it a loss at all. It's just not what I want to spend my time
on.

I've been ruminating on all of this pretty hard for the last couple of
months, and I've concluded that my enjoyment just isn't there any more.
Now that I'm surrounded by a bunch of stuff that I'm not getting
much out of, I feel like I'm being weighed down by the hobby. I think
it's time for me to move on and concentrate on other things.

I'm not sure yet what that means for my current collection. It's already
much smaller than it once was, as I've found homes for a lot of things
over the years. I've moved a lot, and every time I've moved I've found
homes for things I didn't want to take with me. It's probably time to do
that again, only without the moving part.

I think probably I'll have one last big "sale" of stuff, which I'll post
about here. At this point most of what I have is vintage home computers,
terminals, and QBUS PDP-11 stuff, so not everyone will be interested in
it -- but maybe some people will.

-Seth
-- 
Seth Morabito
w...@loomcom.com

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [

[Adam Sampson]

Liam Proven  writes:

>> As far as Doom, not long after I became a Sun employee in Mountain
>> View in '94-95, we played Doom Arena, a networked, multiplayer
>> version of Doom.
> I think you might be conflating 2 games here.

Nope:
http://www.sirbooga.com/doomarena.html

-- 
Adam Sampson  

Re: ADM 3A in Sunnyvale, CA

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:

> >
> > On Oct 11, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Craigslist. Has bad screen rot.
> >
> > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/5817891157.html
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> That’s an understatement!  Anyone know how difficult is it to source a
> replacement CRT for these?



I wonder what the deal is with different ones. Mine has a perfect CRT on
it, and as far as I know it is original (I acquired mine from the guy that
built it).

Re: Looking for Sellam and his sale site

[william degnan]

yup.  she's dead jim

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Eric Christopherson <
echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sellam, are you out there? Your sale site -- http://vintagetech.com/sales/
> -- shows:
>
> Object not found!
>
> The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL
> manually please check your spelling and try again.
>
> If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster.
>
> Error 404
>
> vintagetech.com
> Apache
>
> I tried emailing you in July.
>
> --
> Eric Christopherson
>

RE: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Liam
> Proven
> Sent: 11 October 2016 19:04
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])
> 
> On 11 October 2016 at 19:41, Alan Perry  wrote:
> >
> > As far as Doom, not long after I became a Sun employee in Mountain View
> in '94-95, we played Doom Arena, a networked, multiplayer version of Doom.
> 
> 
> I think you might be conflating 2 games here.
> 
> Doom was *always* multiplayer and network aware. Doom 1.0 for DOS used
> IPX networking and allowed 4 players to deathmatch.
> 

My sons' friends used to come to our house to play as at the time we were the 
only one with two computers and a network...


> However, no more than 4.
> 
> Quake III Arena was a separate release, the 3rd generation of the Quake
> series, which itself was the OpenGL-accelerated sequel to Doom, with actual
> vertical 3D in its levels. (Doom only faked this.) Quake allowed up to 16
> players in deathmatch mode, and ran over TCP/IP. I do not know about the
> limitations in Quake II, which was AFAICR Windows-only on the PC, let alone
> Quake III.
> 
> 
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
> Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven
> Skype/MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
> Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Dave

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Liam Proven]

On 11 October 2016 at 19:41, Alan Perry  wrote:
>
> As far as Doom, not long after I became a Sun employee in Mountain View in 
> '94-95, we played Doom Arena, a networked, multiplayer version of Doom.


I think you might be conflating 2 games here.

Doom was *always* multiplayer and network aware. Doom 1.0 for DOS used
IPX networking and allowed 4 players to deathmatch.

However, no more than 4.

Quake III Arena was a separate release, the 3rd generation of the
Quake series, which itself was the OpenGL-accelerated sequel to Doom,
with actual vertical 3D in its levels. (Doom only faked this.) Quake
allowed up to 16 players in deathmatch mode, and ran over TCP/IP. I do
not know about the limitations in Quake II, which was AFAICR
Windows-only on the PC, let alone Quake III.


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven
Skype/MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Alan Perry]

> On Oct 11, 2016, at 09:24, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/11/16 9:06 AM, Charles Anthony wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:44 AM, william degnan 
>> wrote:
>> 
 
 DOS PC: Doom
 
 
>>> Last comment from me...
>>> 
>>> I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
>>> discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.
>>> 
>> As I understand it, the SGIs were the development platform for DOOM, and
>> the PC version is the 'port'.
> That's incorrect -- DOOM was developed on NeXT hardware.

Yep. In '93 (IIRC), I bought the last of the new NeXT magneto-optical cartridge 
that Canon had and was selling them via Usenet. One of the buyers was some guy 
named John Carmack from some company called Id Software. He paid by check and, 
trying to decide whether to wait for the check to clear, I asked some 
co-workers also from Dallas if they had heard of him or the company (they 
hadn't).

As far as Doom, not long after I became a Sun employee in Mountain View in 
'94-95, we played Doom Arena, a networked, multiplayer version of Doom. It 
saturated the network, so could only be played after business hours. It ran on 
SPARCstations under Solaris.

alan 

> 
> - Josh
> 
>> -- Charles
>> 
> 

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[ethan]

As I understand it, the SGIs were the development platform for DOOM, and
the PC version is the 'port'.
-- Charles


SGI was a development platform for Nintendo 64 console games.
http://assemblergames.com/l/threads/my-complete-sgi-ultra64-dev-set-manual-scans-dev-software.45165/



--
Ethan O'Toole

Re: ADM 3A in Sunnyvale, CA

[Al Kossow]

On 10/11/16 9:43 AM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
> Sark on IRC told me you can use pretty
> much any tube of the right size

Depending on the length of the HV lead, you may need side or
bottom anode button. VT100 is bottom, newer terminals tend to
have it on the side.

I've got an ADM3 in storage nearby, there are probably pics of
the insides on the web, though.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Glen Slick]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:44 AM, william degnan  wrote:
> Last comment from me...
>
> I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
> discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.
>

You can also play Doom on an HP / Agilent 16700 series logic analyzer
(PA-RISC CPU). It is included in the standard software installation.

Looking for Sellam and his sale site

[Eric Christopherson]

Sellam, are you out there? Your sale site -- http://vintagetech.com/sales/
-- shows:

Object not found!

The requested URL was not found on this server. If you entered the URL
manually please check your spelling and try again.

If you think this is a server error, please contact the webmaster.

Error 404

vintagetech.com
Apache

I tried emailing you in July.

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: ADM 3A in Sunnyvale, CA

[Eric Christopherson]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Peter Cetinski  wrote:

> >
> > On Oct 11, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Craigslist. Has bad screen rot.
> >
> > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/5817891157.html
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
>
> That’s an understatement!  Anyone know how difficult is it to source a
> replacement CRT for these?


I don't have one of these yet, but Sark on IRC told me you can use pretty
much any tube of the right size, and if you want to just clean the
cataracts off the existing tube, that isn't hard either.

-- 
Eric Christopherson

Re: ADM 3A in Sunnyvale, CA

[Peter Cetinski]

> 
> On Oct 11, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Bob Rosenbloom  wrote:
> 
> On Craigslist. Has bad screen rot.
> 
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/5817891157.html
> 
> Bob
> 
> 

That’s an understatement!  Anyone know how difficult is it to source a 
replacement CRT for these?

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/11/16 9:06 AM, Charles Anthony wrote:


On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:44 AM, william degnan 
wrote:



DOS PC: Doom



Last comment from me...

I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.


As I understand it, the SGIs were the development platform for DOOM, and
the PC version is the 'port'.

That's incorrect -- DOOM was developed on NeXT hardware.

- Josh


-- Charles

ADM 3A in Sunnyvale, CA

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On Craigslist. Has bad screen rot.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/atq/5817891157.html

Bob

--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Charles Anthony]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 8:44 AM, william degnan 
wrote:

> >
> >
> > DOS PC: Doom
> >
> >
> Last comment from me...
>
> I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
> discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.
>

As I understand it, the SGIs were the development platform for DOOM, and
the PC version is the 'port'.

-- Charles

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[william degnan]

>
>
> DOS PC: Doom
>
>
Last comment from me...

I played SGI Doom the other day for the first time.  There are always new
discoveries, I did not even know this port existed.

There is always vintage console gaming at (what was once MARCH but is now)
the VCFed club's holiday party each December.  Ian Primas always brings a
van full of vintage TVs etc.  That's part of the charm, using old TVs too,
when you use the vintage consoles.

Personally for console gaming I have a Retron 5 with HDMI port.  Modern
convenience.  I don't use actual vintage hardware for gaming that often.
Retron 5 has an SDI card port.  5 game systems in one.

b

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Liam Proven]

On 10 October 2016 at 22:56, Ethan Dicks  wrote:
> I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
> to 1995.


Classic 9" mono Mac: Crystal Quest
CBM PET: The Valley
BBC Micro: Elite
ZX Spectrum: Jet-Pac, The Hobbit, the Strangler's Aural Quest
Acorn Archimedes: Zarch (well, the Lander demo, really)
DOS PC: Doom


-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • GMail/Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven
Skype/MSN: lpro...@hotmail.com • LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) • +420 702 829 053 (ČR)

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 7:51 AM, Adam Sampson  wrote:

>
> On the Amiga, our favourites included: Lemmings (two mice), Stunt Car
> Racer (serial link), Gravity Power, Blob Kombat, Space Taxi, XTreme
> Racing, and Super Skidmarks (all two joysticks). On Unix machines, hunt
> (terminal) and XPilot (X).
>


There was a port of Space Taxi for the Amiga? Interesting. One of my
favorites on the C-64. Off the top of my head another favorite vintage game
is Dino Eggs, which I believe the creator is working on releasing for
mobile platforms right now.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [

[Adam Sampson]

Ethan Dicks  writes:

> I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
> to 1995.

If it's for a meetup, then I'm guessing some multiplayer games would go
down well...

On the Amiga, our favourites included: Lemmings (two mice), Stunt Car
Racer (serial link), Gravity Power, Blob Kombat, Space Taxi, XTreme
Racing, and Super Skidmarks (all two joysticks). On Unix machines, hunt
(terminal) and XPilot (X).

-- 
Adam Sampson  

Front Panels - Update.

[Rod Smallwood]

Hi

  Firstly I am pleased to be able to say I have five different 
PDP-8 front panels all in stock.


Secondly a big thank you to Jack Rubin for mentioning my panels in his 
presentation at the Chicago show.


I have the artwork for the PDP-8/L done and I'll get a run done as soon 
as I get enough interested  parties.


Thanks to Vince I have been able to make a working PDP-8/i lights board.

As we all know the 8/i is made up of a wire wrap back plane and loads of 
flip chip modules.


I am only mad not totally insane. So reproducing that lot is not possible.

So its the Raspberry Pi and simH  route for me.

First job is to go and have another look at what Oscar did/is doing.

I know he muxed the lamps on his board. He usually open sources everything.

In keeping with my plug compatible philosophy

I'll go as far as paddle cards and DEC style edge connectors on my PiBoard

The switches are the butterfly rocker type. I should be able to pick up 
an odd one as a sample.


I know Oscar is looking at this whole question so I'll get an update 
from him.



Rod (Panelman) Smallwood



--
PDP-8/e PDP-8/f PDP-8/m PDP-8/i
Front Panels ex Stock - Order Now

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 04:56:40PM -0400, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> hackerspace.  I'm already bringing the hardware - to date, Commodore
> PET, Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari 2600, PDP-8 (emulated for now), and
> curses-based UNIX games, and would like to add more platforms.

I'm certain you will be overwhelmed with lists :) I arrange game-nights 
on a semiregular basis with two friends and we focus on retro stuff. We 
play mostly on consoles but on the C64 we recently played:

Last Ninja 2, Rock'n'Bolt, Thrust, Commando, Mancopter, Delta.

I can heartily recommend the little known Rock'N'Bolt and Mancopter. 
Easy to get into and play for a short while. Great music :)

>  I'm especially interested in any favorites that run on dumb terminals 
> (I have numerous ones to bring in, and have a VT220 already in the 
> collection).

With a little work you can get the original tetris running on a PDP-11, 
real or emulated.

/P

ISO Table from ENIAC Technical Manual

[Brian L. Stuart]

I know this is a very long shot, but I'm looking for Table 6-13
from the ENIAC Technical Manual Part 1 by Adele Goldstine.
In the table of tables at the front of the manual, it's listed as being
"in an envelope attached to the back cover."  Neither the scan
on archive.org nor the printed copy from Periscope Film (which
appears to be produced from the scan on archive.org) appear
to have this table.  Does anyone know where a scan of this
table might exist?

Thanks in advance,
BLS

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4

[Scott Baker]

*Hi Glen
*>> The boards appear to be the following in the photos:>> M8186
KDF11-A 11/23 CPU>> ?   256KB parity RAM>> ?   DSD disk
interface for the DSD-440?>> ?   bus grant card?>> M8028   DLV11-F
Async interface>> M8012   BDV11   Bus terminator, bootstrap and
diagnostic ROMs>> M8016   KPV11   Power fail, realtime clock,
(termination)

?   256KB parity RAM  >> Yes, the board was made by National
Semiconductor Memory Systems but is has TI RAMs on it
9x4xTMS4164-150ns
?   DSD disk interface for the DSD-440? >> Yes :)
?   bus grant card? >> Yes :)

>> In some of the photos the M8012 BDV11 is installed upside down. Make >>
sure you don't power it on that way.

I noticed that :P

Thanks,
Scott



On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 10:00 AM,  wrote:

> Send cctech mailing list submissions to
> cct...@classiccmp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon (Scott Baker)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 11:31:29 -0700
> From: Scott Baker 
> To: cct...@classiccmp.org
> Subject: PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon
> Message-ID:
>  gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi,
>
> Pictures can be found here: http://sierracircuitdesign.
> ddns.net/temp/pdp11/
>
> The system is located in Portland, Oregon. Local pick-up is preferred.
> Not sure if it still works. I have not tried to turn it on in years.
> I do not have any software of floppies for it.
> I'm not sure what it's worth. If you are interested in it, make me an
> offer.
>
> Regards,
> Scott
>
>
> End of cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4
> *
>

ISO figure from ENIAC Technical Manual

[Brian L. Stuart]

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Al Kossow]

On 10/10/16 2:43 AM, asw...@t-online.de wrote:

>> So it would plug into the SCSI bus and allow ".TAP" (and other tape formats)
>> stored on some kind of flash memory, say USB or SD card perhaps, to be read
>> by real hardware.
>>
>>
>>
>> Does this sound usefull to any one? Any other thoughts on how this could be
>> achieved?
>>

yes it would be useful. a firmware mod to the existing scsi disk emulator board?