Re: Malware history was: Spectre & Meltdown

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

 On 1/16/18 4:27 PM, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote:
> Enjoying the virus/malware history as its always interesting to see
> what people thought. Tricks, boredom, etc cause interesting results.
> For punch cards i thought someone was going to mention punching all
> the holes and jamming the reader. I'm not sure if thats real but heard
> some folks had to check their opcodes or it could potentially lead to
> that or flimsy card integrity if not.
> Did anyone here ever see animal or other shared system malware? Animal
> was just a nondestructive trojan (other than potential to take up disk
> space) but interesting that someone would run a program that appeared
> unexpected in their home folder.

Cards that were mostly holes were called "lace cards".  Not uncommon to
see one punched (and offset if the punch had the feature) to indicate
the start of a punched output file--usually showing the file name or job
ID in "see-thru" fashion.

High-speed punches generally could be very noisy when punching lace
cards (or column/row binary) and prone to errors as they heated up.  I'm
thinking of the CDC 415 punch as an example, but the 1402 could put out
quite a racket as well.

Never tried duping a lace card on an 029 or 514. It doubtless would have
been noisy as well.

--Chuck

Reviving ARPAnet

[Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk]

Hello,

What software, hardware, simulators, emulators, etc are there that could
run ARPAnet today?

- ITS has support for NCP, but I don't know if it works.
- There's source code for the IMP.
- TENEX seems ok at a quick glance.
- WAITS, likewise.
- Multics NCP has not been located.
- Unix?
- IBM mainframes?
- NOS?
- VMS?

Does anyone have any host tables between 1975 and 1981?

Classic regards,
Lars Brinkhoff

AT UNIX PC 7300 (3b1) disassembly video

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

While I'm thinking about it, for any/all who might be interested, just last
week, I created a step-by-step video for disassembling a UNIX PC 7300 (with
a few comments/comparisons for the 3b1)

https://youtu.be/vYKS-jOdcsQ

I've always found them tricky to work on with the way they are packed
together, so I hope this could help others who might want to take a crack
at a repair/restoration (or, heaven forbid...a "part-out")

-- 

Thanks,
AJ
http://MightyFrame.com

http://QICreader.com

http://UnixPC.blogspot.com

Re: Sold on eBay: Convergent Technologies S/50 a.k.a. Unix PC, AT 3B1 Unix Workstation

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

Thank you for this, Todd!  I believe I can help here, on all fronts.  I
have several 3b1s, both complete and in varying stages of assembly.  I'd be
glad to be the comparison on the hardware for sure.  I can even donate
parts (and/or a whole 3b1) if appropriate, and would gladly do so to see
that much rarer S/50 get running.

And as far as the disks documentation, I believe I can, and would
definitely like to help there as well, thank you for being open to that.  I
believe that the Dave Dunfield ImageDisk ".imd" files are what bitsavers.org
prefers for 5.25" floppy archive files (Al, Bear, please feel free to
correct me here...).  I have a setup ready to go for that.

To keep from clogging this list with the logistical minutiae, I'll reply
from my Convergent MightyFrame-email address to you directly, and let's see
what we can work out.

Thanks again!

-AJ

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 6:31 AM, Todd Goodman  wrote:

> Hi AJ,
>
> Thank you, I've been looking for 3b1s and 3b2s for a while.
>
> I plan to eventually be able to image the disks and scan the documentation.
>
> It will however take a while to get to that point.
>
> I'm open to loaning media and manuals to someone who can get that done
> quicker (I'm in southern NH.)
>
> I'm also happy to open up the machine and do what I can to help identify
> differences though I don't have a "regular" 3b1 to compare against myself
> (I'd love one and any 3b2s I could get my hands on as well.)
>
> You or anyone else should please feel free to stay in contact with me
> either on list or off.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Todd
>
> On 1/14/2018 9:05 PM, AJ Palmgren wrote:
>
> Todd, thanks so much for sharing, and I'm thrilled to know that a member
> of this community is where it's going.
>
> May I ask, what are your plans for archival of the included disks and
> manuals, if any?
>
> I'd also be quite curious to see if there are any internal circuit
> differences between that machine and a "regular AT 3b1.  If you ever open
> it up, I'd love to see/hear about that.
>
> I've put a fair amount of effort into preserving Convergent-branded OS and
> programs, particularly from this era, solely out of personal interest.
> Mostly for the MightyFrame, but my journey had to start with the AT UNIX
> PC first, as that had the larger "still available" user group for learning
> & support before I could revers-engineer how to get a MightyFrame to boot.
>
> Anyway, I would really love to see those software/manual sets be preserved
> in a bitsavers.org / archive.org fashion, and if there is anything that I
> might be able to do to assist in that effort, I'd love to volunteer.
>
> My site for preserving this area of Convergent software and equipment is
> at http://MightyFrame.com
>
> Please let me know how I might help, in any way.
>
> Thanks so much!
> -AJ
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Todd Goodman  wrote:
>
>> Hi AJ (and list),
>>
>> I got that one.
>>
>> Todd
>>
>>
>> On 1/13/2018 10:02 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> I'm just wondering if anybody here did (or knows who) bought this one.
>>>
>>> http://ebay.to/2DaRr13
>>>
>>> Even though these were all manufactured by Convergent Technologies, this
>>> one is actually BRANDED by Convergent, as their model S/50.
>>>
>>> And there's software included here. I tried to buy myself, but just
>>> missed
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I'd really like to connect with the buyer here, to see if we can do a
>>> more
>>> expansive documentation project on this machine, as well as an archival
>>> of
>>> the software that was included.
>>>
>>> As far as I know, this is the only Convergent S/50 I've ever seen that
>>> has
>>> survived, especially with all the CONVERGENT software and manuals (vs the
>>> AT ones)!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -AJ
>>> http://MightyFrame.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> AJ Palmgren
> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
> http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>
>
>
>


-- 

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

Re: Sold on eBay: Convergent Technologies S/50 a.k.a. Unix PC, AT 3B1 Unix Workstation

[AJ Palmgren via cctalk]

Dwight, thanks for sharing all of this this!  Great memory, and fantastic
ingenuity, to say the least!

Did it happen to be one of these older-style Convergent AWS machines?

http://mightyframe.blogspot.com/2017/03/convergent-technologies-workstation.html

On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 6:16 AM, dwight  wrote:

> Years ago, we used one of the Convergent machines. I recall playing rats
> on it. It had a green screen. It was a 8086 processor and had some Multibus
> slots in it.
>
> I recall the SA8000 hard disk. It would fail after 20 minutes or so. We
> sent is back to Shugart for warranty  repair with a complete description of
> how it needed to run for some time before it failed.
>
> They sent it back still broken. I when to Shugart with the drive and found
> out that they never even looked at the return sheet they had me fill out.
> They just replaced the drive belt tested it for 2 minutes and sent it back.
>
> I couldn't wait for them to not fix it again. I bought a replacement
> transistor for the stepper drive and fixed it my self.
>
> We used them because of the bus slots on the back. I made a DC servo
> controller to run an XY table.
>
> I had an early version of fig Forth running on it to debug my hardware.
>
> Dwight
>
>
> --
> *From:* cctalk  on behalf of AJ Palmgren
> via cctalk 
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 14, 2018 6:05:55 PM
> *To:* Todd Goodman
> *Cc:* General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> *Subject:* Re: Sold on eBay: Convergent Technologies S/50 a.k.a. Unix PC,
> AT 3B1 Unix Workstation
>
> Todd, thanks so much for sharing, and I'm thrilled to know that a member of
> this community is where it's going.
>
> May I ask, what are your plans for archival of the included disks and
> manuals, if any?
>
> I'd also be quite curious to see if there are any internal circuit
> differences between that machine and a "regular AT 3b1.  If you ever open
> it up, I'd love to see/hear about that.
>
> I've put a fair amount of effort into preserving Convergent-branded OS and
> programs, particularly from this era, solely out of personal interest.
> Mostly for the MightyFrame, but my journey had to start with the AT UNIX
> PC first, as that had the larger "still available" user group for learning
> & support before I could revers-engineer how to get a MightyFrame to boot.
>
> Anyway, I would really love to see those software/manual sets be preserved
> in a bitsavers.org / archive.org fashion, and if there is anything that I
> might be able to do to assist in that effort, I'd love to volunteer.
>
> My site for preserving this area of Convergent software and equipment is at
> http://MightyFrame.com
>
> Please let me know how I might help, in any way.
>
> Thanks so much!
> -AJ
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 8:26 AM, Todd Goodman  wrote:
>
> > Hi AJ (and list),
> >
> > I got that one.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> >
> > On 1/13/2018 10:02 PM, AJ Palmgren via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> I'm just wondering if anybody here did (or knows who) bought this one.
> >>
> >> http://ebay.to/2DaRr13
> >>
> >> Even though these were all manufactured by Convergent Technologies, this
> >> one is actually BRANDED by Convergent, as their model S/50.
> >>
> >> And there's software included here. I tried to buy myself, but just
> missed
> >> it.
> >>
> >> I'd really like to connect with the buyer here, to see if we can do a
> more
> >> expansive documentation project on this machine, as well as an archival
> of
> >> the software that was included.
> >>
> >> As far as I know, this is the only Convergent S/50 I've ever seen that
> has
> >> survived, especially with all the CONVERGENT software and manuals (vs
> the
> >> AT ones)!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> -AJ
> >> http://MightyFrame.com
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
> AJ Palmgren
> http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
> http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/
>



-- 

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

New S-100 boards For Sale and Update to Tektronix 4051 bundle

[Sellam Ismail via cctalk]

Hello Good Folks.

I've put up a new batch of S-100 boards for sale, details here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?61192-Sellam-s-S-100-Hardware-Software-and-Peripherals-Sales-Thread=494644#post494644

I've also added a 4051E01 ROM Expander to the Tektronix 4051 system I put
up for sale earlier.  Details and photos here:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?61006-Tektronix-4051-complete-system=494648#post494648

As always, direct responses via e-mail.

Thank you!

Sellam

Re: Malware history was: Spectre & Meltdown

[David C. Jenner via cctalk]

This isn't malware, but back in 1962 when I was taking a college class 
in assembly language programming for the IBM 709, my innocence led to 
the following.


Of course, I had, on the typewriter, for my high school years, always 
typed ' backspace . to get an exclamation point.  I did this in a 
comment in my first punched card submittal using an 026 keypunch.  The 
program was rejected, and I lost $0.25 from my lab fee.


So my first real computer program was a flaming failure.  Had to wait 
for the 029 to be emphatic in punching.


Dave

On 1/16/18 4:27 PM, Sam O'nella via cctalk wrote:

Enjoying the virus/malware history as its always interesting to see what people 
thought. Tricks, boredom, etc cause interesting results.
For punch cards i thought someone was going to mention punching all the holes 
and jamming the reader. I'm not sure if thats real but heard some folks had to 
check their opcodes or it could potentially lead to that or flimsy card 
integrity if not.
Did anyone here ever see animal or other shared system malware? Animal was just 
a nondestructive trojan (other than potential to take up disk space) but 
interesting that someone would run a program that appeared unexpected in their 
home folder.
 Original message 
(I'm unaware of any punch-card attacks, but trojans were possible when
people used prior subroutines)

Re: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Silvertel makes POTS line interfaces (SLICs) that work on 3.3v or 5v
> supplies. They do all the high voltage generation and impedance wizardry on
> the POTS side, then expose audio in/out and simple control lines.

I've worked with early versions of SLIC - circa 1990... even then,
they packed enormous amounts of telco stuff in a small package.

One place I worked for made a 2-line telco simulator product - the
primary use was testing auto-dialling software to replicate various
fault conditions.

> To complete the picture you'd have to generate the tones and decode the
> numbers but that's it I'm guessing.
>
> Practical? No. Awesome? Yes.

We did that with an 8749 (MCS-48) microcontroller.  By dialling
different phone numbers from one of the stations, the MCU would
complete a connection or play a busy or fast busy signal.

-ethan

Re: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 08:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

I wonder if one of the inexpensive VoIP-to-POTS adapters would do the job...


I expect so.  That's what I was referencing earlier when I said that I 
had a fax machine working behind an IAXy (connected to Asterisk.)



Otherwise, there should still be some cheap KSUs around on the surplus
market.


I took a gander this evening, and yes, I saw multiple 'Partner' systems 
that had multiple FXS ports.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

I wonder if one of the inexpensive VoIP-to-POTS adapters would do the job...

Otherwise, there should still be some cheap KSUs around on the surplus
market.

--Chuck

Re: Malware history was: Spectre & Meltdown

[Charles Anthony via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Sam O'nella via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Enjoying the virus/malware history as its always interesting to see what
> people thought. Tricks, boredom, etc cause interesting results.
> For punch cards i thought someone was going to mention punching all the
> holes and jamming the reader. I'm not sure if thats real but heard some
> folks had to check their opcodes or it could potentially lead to that or
> flimsy card integrity if not.
> Did anyone here ever see animal or other shared system malware? Animal was
> just a nondestructive trojan (other than potential to take up disk space)
> but interesting that someone would run a program that appeared unexpected
> in their home folder.
>  Original message 
> (I'm unaware of any punch-card attacks, but trojans were possible when
> people used prior subroutines)
>

For CDC 6000 SCOPE, the second card in the job deck was
'ACCOUNT,name,password' (or something like that; it was a long time ago).
In a corner of the keypunch room was a large card recycling bin right next
to a card sorter. One would set the card sorter to pull out cards that had
an 'A' in column one, and shovel cards out of the bin into card sorter and
end up with a tidy pile of user accounts and passwords, Or so I've heard.

-- Charles

RE: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Ali via cctalk]

> I would expect that such PBXs have a way to receiving incoming analog
> lines.  As such, I would expect that you could take an FXO (station)
> port on one PBX and connect it to the FXS (CO) port on the other PBX,
> and vice versa.

They do have access to outside lines (e.g. 9, number). However, I am not sure 
again if daisy chaining is possible. Reading the manual I could not find a way 
to change extension numbers so that even if you connected two units you still 
would have two sets of the same extensions. An email to the company support 
address, unsurprisingly, went unanswered. Do a search for sp-208M to see 
pictures and somewhat of a description.

-Ali

Malware history was: Spectre & Meltdown

[Sam O'nella via cctalk]

Enjoying the virus/malware history as its always interesting to see what people 
thought. Tricks, boredom, etc cause interesting results.
For punch cards i thought someone was going to mention punching all the holes 
and jamming the reader. I'm not sure if thats real but heard some folks had to 
check their opcodes or it could potentially lead to that or flimsy card 
integrity if not. 
Did anyone here ever see animal or other shared system malware? Animal was just 
a nondestructive trojan (other than potential to take up disk space) but 
interesting that someone would run a program that appeared unexpected in their 
home folder.
 Original message 
(I'm unaware of any punch-card attacks, but trojans were possible when 
people used prior subroutines)

Re: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Silvertel makes POTS line interfaces (SLICs) that work on 3.3v or 5v
supplies. They do all the high voltage generation and impedance wizardry on
the POTS side, then expose audio in/out and simple control lines.

To complete the picture you'd have to generate the tones and decode the
numbers but that's it I'm guessing.

Practical? No. Awesome? Yes.

=]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:53 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 01/16/2018 04:46 PM, Ali wrote:
> > You can pick up a cheap Chinese analog 8 port PBX on ePay for about
> > $60. It will create dial tone, ring, etc. and allow you to call from
> > "extension" to "extension" so you can even dial in and get a handshake
> > tone. The only issue is that I don't believe they can be daisy chained
> > so eight ports is your max and there is no way to connect one site to
> > another (short of running very long wires).
>
> I would expect that such PBXs have a way to receiving incoming analog
> lines.  As such, I would expect that you could take an FXO (station)
> port on one PBX and connect it to the FXS (CO) port on the other PBX,
> and vice versa.
>
> My brain stalls ever time I say FXS vs FXO and I have to verify what I'm
> saying.  -  Here's an old but IMHO good reference from Digium.
>
> Link - What are FXS and FXO?
>   - https://my.digium.com/en/docs/misc/fxs_fxo_desc/
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
-- 
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 04:46 PM, Ali wrote:
You can pick up a cheap Chinese analog 8 port PBX on ePay for about 
$60. It will create dial tone, ring, etc. and allow you to call from 
"extension" to "extension" so you can even dial in and get a handshake 
tone. The only issue is that I don't believe they can be daisy chained 
so eight ports is your max and there is no way to connect one site to 
another (short of running very long wires).


I would expect that such PBXs have a way to receiving incoming analog 
lines.  As such, I would expect that you could take an FXO (station) 
port on one PBX and connect it to the FXS (CO) port on the other PBX, 
and vice versa.


My brain stalls ever time I say FXS vs FXO and I have to verify what I'm 
saying.  -  Here's an old but IMHO good reference from Digium.


Link - What are FXS and FXO?
 - https://my.digium.com/en/docs/misc/fxs_fxo_desc/



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Cheap Analog PBX was: RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Ali via cctalk]

> Would this be a good job for the Viking Electronics DLE-300?
> 
> It emulates a CO with a pair of POTS lines, so you can call from port
> to port on it. It emulates all of the correct tones and CPC, both
> modems think they are on POTS lines. Makes it very easy to connect a
> pair of modems back-to-back, and fwiw it supports data to 112,500.

You can pick up a cheap Chinese analog 8 port PBX on ePay for about $60. It 
will create dial tone, ring, etc. and allow you to call from "extension" to 
"extension" so you can even dial in and get a handshake tone. The only issue is 
that I don't believe they can be daisy chained so eight ports is your max and 
there is no way to connect one site to another (short of running very long 
wires).

-Ali

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 04:19 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
If you don't need the "handshake" for dialtone, ring, caller-ID, etc., 
then all you need is some electric power.


Now I'm wondering about superimposing ~90 VAC (at 20 Hz) to simulate ring.

I think that the ""dialing modem could be configured to ignore the 
incoming ring while it's dialing.  If not, some analog circuitry might 
need to be applied.


I wonder if a momentary break between the two sides (still applying 9V 
to each) while applying ringing voltage to the receiving side would work.


Now I need to figure out how to stop my brain.

For MAXIMUM realism, then the "answer" end should also get occasional 
random "wrong number", incoming fax, "I'm calling to offer you a great 
deal on" (I don't listen past that).


LOL



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[drlegendre . via cctalk]

Would this be a good job for the Viking Electronics DLE-300?

It emulates a CO with a pair of POTS lines, so you can call from port to
port on it. It emulates all of the correct tones and CPC, both modems think
they are on POTS lines. Makes it very easy to connect a pair of modems
back-to-back, and fwiw it supports data to 112,500.

You might also be able to use a Viking DLE-200B but they are not nearly as
feature-full as the 300. Should work, though, but the data will be limited
to 14,400 or so IIRC.

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 4:59 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 01/16/2018 03:15 PM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
>
>> The tightwad fix is to bodge a PP3 battery onto a line splitter, which is
>> often enough to convince modems that there is a phone line. There is no
>> dial tone nor ring signal, so you need to turn off dial tone detection on
>> the calling modem ("ATX1", IIRC) and somehow tell the answering computer to
>> send "ATA" to answer at the right time.
>>
>
> Sounds like an interesting hack.  But should probably be good enough for
> most of what is desired.
>
> I'm going to have to look into this.
>
> It's just a bit of test gear, which you should be able to find on eBay. I
>> suspect it will be priced like obscure test gear as well.
>>
>
> That's what I've found.
>
> With the kit I have available, I'd just spin up Asterisk or FreeSWITCH on
>> a handy Linux box, set up a minimal local-only PBX, and plug the modem into
>> a VoIP ATA. This eliminates four hops worth of latency and jitter via an
>> external VoIP provider and thus should reduce or eliminate retrains and
>> disconnects.
>>
>
> Yep, that's the route that I'd go too.  Or maybe even FXS ports in an
> adapter in the PBX itself.
>
> Link - Analog Telephony Cards for Asterisk | Digium
>   - https://www.digium.com/products/telephony-cards/analog
>
> I could try and order an analogue phone line, but I suspect that KPN
>> doesn't have a script for that and would get very confused. (I also don't
>> care to pay their extortionate tariff of 11 cents per minute for local
>> calls.)
>>
>
> I'm not surprised.
>
> I think a number of analog phone lines are now really something digital to
> the neighborhood / house (possibly ~> likely VoIP) and splitting it out the
> B1 locally.  So even those might not support modem / fax as well as an old
> school B1.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

The tightwad fix is to bodge a PP3 battery onto a line splitter, which is 
often enough to convince modems that there is a phone line. There is no 
dial tone nor ring signal, so you need to turn off dial tone detection on 
the calling modem ("ATX1", IIRC) and somehow tell the answering computer to 
send "ATA" to answer at the right time.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
Sounds like an interesting hack.  But should probably be good enough for most 
of what is desired.

I'm going to have to look into this.


If you don't need the "handshake" for dialtone, ring, caller-ID, etc., 
then all you need is some electric power.



For MAXIMUM realism, then the "answer" end should also get occasional 
random "wrong number", incoming fax, "I'm calling to offer you a great 
deal on" (I don't listen past that).

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any key 
of the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will work.


MOST of such locks (called "cam lock") have a standardized mounting, 
although the "cam"/latch bar may differ.

You can replace the lock with one of your choice.
There are even COMBINATION cam locks, giving you the opportunity to forget 
the combination that you set, instead of losing the key.


With a larger mounting hole, you can get cam locks with Interchangeable 
Core, or with house-hey keyways to rekey to match your residence key.

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 03:15 PM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
The tightwad fix is to bodge a PP3 battery onto a line splitter, which is 
often enough to convince modems that there is a phone line. There is no 
dial tone nor ring signal, so you need to turn off dial tone detection on 
the calling modem ("ATX1", IIRC) and somehow tell the answering computer 
to send "ATA" to answer at the right time.


Sounds like an interesting hack.  But should probably be good enough for 
most of what is desired.


I'm going to have to look into this.

It's just a bit of test gear, which you should be able to find on eBay. I 
suspect it will be priced like obscure test gear as well.


That's what I've found.

With the kit I have available, I'd just spin up Asterisk or FreeSWITCH 
on a handy Linux box, set up a minimal local-only PBX, and plug the 
modem into a VoIP ATA. This eliminates four hops worth of latency and 
jitter via an external VoIP provider and thus should reduce or eliminate 
retrains and disconnects.


Yep, that's the route that I'd go too.  Or maybe even FXS ports in an 
adapter in the PBX itself.


Link - Analog Telephony Cards for Asterisk | Digium
  - https://www.digium.com/products/telephony-cards/analog

I could try and order an analogue phone line, but I suspect that KPN 
doesn't have a script for that and would get very confused. (I also 
don't care to pay their extortionate tariff of 11 cents per minute for 
local calls.)


I'm not surprised.

I think a number of analog phone lines are now really something digital 
to the neighborhood / house (possibly ~> likely VoIP) and splitting it 
out the B1 locally.  So even those might not support modem / fax as well 
as an old school B1.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, dwight via cctalk wrote:
You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any 
key of the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will 
work.


Most any real lock smith can make a key for you if you give him the 
lock. The ones on the HPs are not that hard to remove.


Or get a key cut based on the code number (if avaialable)
Or swap the pins to make the lock fit any other key that you have with the 
same keyway.
(If so, and if the lock has the code number engraved/stamped on it, 
consider taking a dremel to cross out the number that is no longer 
correct.  Or leave it, so that somebody getting a key code cut to 
steal your machine wastes some time)

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[dwight via cctalk]

You know that one can always remove the pins from the lock and then any key of 
the right diameter will work. It won't be original but it will work.

Most any real lock smith can make a key for you if you give him the lock. The 
ones on the HPs are not that hard to remove.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Ed Sharpe via cctalk 

Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 2:31:26 PM
To: ci...@xenosoft.com; cctalk@classiccmp.org; cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Re: HP 2108A key

I never  found on ein the key stash I ordered  2  off  ebay
one to use...
one to loose!


Ed#


In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:19:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:


 On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:
> Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
> https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: Re: HP 2108A key

[Ed Sharpe via cctalk]

I never  found on ein the key stash I ordered  2  off  ebay
one to use...
one to loose!
 
 
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 1/16/2018 3:19:11 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
cctalk@classiccmp.org writes:

 
 On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:
> Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
> https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: HP 2108A key

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:

Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:
https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446


Nice pictures of a 2108A !
But no pictures of the key, (which has been worked out)

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 02:07:59PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
[...]
> I doubt that will work quite like you are thinking. There is more to an
> analog phone line than the audio that comes over it. Namely the loop current
> and voltage are also additional bits of signaling.

The tightwad fix is to bodge a PP3 battery onto a line splitter, which is often
enough to convince modems that there is a phone line. There is no dial tone nor
ring signal, so you need to turn off dial tone detection on the calling modem
("ATX1", IIRC) and somehow tell the answering computer to send "ATA" to answer
at the right time.

> I don't think there is such a thing as a cross over phone line.

It's just a bit of test gear, which you should be able to find on eBay. I
suspect it will be priced like obscure test gear as well.

With the kit I have available, I'd just spin up Asterisk or FreeSWITCH on a
handy Linux box, set up a minimal local-only PBX, and plug the modem into a
VoIP ATA. This eliminates four hops worth of latency and jitter via an external
VoIP provider and thus should reduce or eliminate retrains and disconnects.

I could try and order an analogue phone line, but I suspect that KPN doesn't
have a script for that and would get very confused. (I also don't care to pay
their extortionate tariff of 11 cents per minute for local calls.)

Re: HP 2108A key

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Tim Riker via cctalk wrote:


On 09/21/2017 08:52 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:

  Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key
for their 2108A, this weekend.


Ask if he can snap a few good close-up pictures of it.  While
measurement from a picture isn't reliable, it doesn't have to be, if the
picture is clear enough to decide whether a given cut is a 2 cut or a 3
cut.



Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:

https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446


   Yes, it did.  Dennis Boone has the techninal details.

Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

-


From cctalk@classiccmp.org Mon Sep 25 18:21:35 2017

Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 17:21:27 -0400
From: Dennis Boone via cctalk 
Reply-To: Dennis Boone , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic 
Posts" 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
Subject: Re: HP 2108A key

 > I received a key that was made based on the Chicago Lock H2007 key in
 > Christian's picture:

 > It works!

 > I've asked our resident keymaster to post any specifications needed
 > to duplicate this key.

The key is an H2007.  This is one of the Chicago double-sided types.
The keyblank is an Ilco 1041G, aka CG1, which looks like this:

http://mysecuritypro.com/images/products/highres/cg1large.jpg

Note that there are other similar blanks in which the center land is
offset one way or the other, but on this one it's centered.

One easy way to get one is on ebay: H2007 is one of the relatively
common numbers, once used in alarms or elevators or some such.  Most
real locksmiths (i.e. not the key booth at Ace or Home Despot) will have
the means to originate such a key, and can work from "Chicago
double-sided H2007 CG1".  Many of said serious locksmiths will want you
to prove you own the lock.  I think I remember hearing that Jay carried
one of his HP minis into such a place once... ;)

TL;DR:

The tricky bit to cutting them is that when Chicago designed them, they
developed several hundred unique curves instead of a set of numbered cut
depths.  However, manufacturers of numerical key machines have worked it
out, probably by pretending there are a large number of cut positions.

There are two ways these days to originate one: copy the appropriate
master key (they come in sets from whoever now owns Chicago, or used
from ebay occasionally) onto the appropriate blank; or use a numerically
controlled key machine.

I can originate most of these Chicago keys from my set of masters, if
people are stuck.  I think I can also produce the 4T1427 panel lock key,
and with a little testing the tubular XX2946, XX2247, XX2065 (since we
have cut depths for these).  I've been trying to get to the point where
I can produce most ccmp related keys, and am interested in expanding
that capability, if people have needs or additional data.

De

Re: HP 2108A key

[Tim Riker via cctalk]

On 09/21/2017 08:52 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
>>   Mike Thompson at the RICM is going to look for a number on the key
>> for their 2108A, this weekend.
> 
> Ask if he can snap a few good close-up pictures of it.  While
> measurement from a picture isn't reliable, it doesn't have to be, if the
> picture is clear enough to decide whether a given cut is a 2 cut or a 3
> cut.
> 

Did this get resolved? I have an HP-2108A with key as pictured here:

https://rikers.org/gallery/hardware-hp2108a/20050415_132446

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 02:21 PM, Mark G Thomas via cctalk wrote:
Teltone and several other companies made/make phone line similators which 
provide battery, dial tone, ringing, caller ID (sometimes), DTMF (and 
maybe even pulse?) dialing between several ports. These are designed 
for testing and demonstrating fax machines, modems, and other analog 
phone gear.  I'm not talking about the sophisticated bench testing 
gear simulators which provide simulated line loss, delays, and noise, 
but the simple small portable 2-8 line devices. A quick search on e-bay 
produces lots of listings for these devices.


Yep, such simulators will (should) work nicely.

I (mis)took Anders comment to be wanting to do something more akin to a 
cross over cable, possibly with audio induced.


If I were ever to try to do something like this I'd likely use an old 
'Partner' phone system or an Asterisk (FreePBX / FreeSWITCH) box with 
the analog FXS ports.  If I went the Asterisk (et al) route, I'd also 
likely try getting soft modems to interface so that the devices 
connected to the FXS could dial virtual (software) modems and their 
associated TTYs on the box.  -  Seeing as how everything is local, and 
likely using the u-law codec without worrying about bandwidth in box. 
Hopefully that would work reliably enough to allow playing with things.


I do know that I've gotten (33.6?) fax to work across an IAXy ATA and 
it's proprietary codec fairly well.  So I expect that it would be 
possible to get slower (14.4,or lower) modems to work fairly reliably.


Now I'm wanting to re-acquire some POTS devices to play.  :-/  My wife 
isn't going to like that.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:19 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 01/16/2018 02:07 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> Which of course also goes out if the power fails, perhaps not as quickly as 
>> a poorly constructed POTS system but it will.  Various emergency 
>> sitatuations (hurricanes etc.) have demonstrated this repeatedly.
> 
> That surprises me.  In Missouri, analog (a.k.a. B1) phone lines are 
> considered "life saving devices" and have (had?) mandates to be available for 
> service even when the power is out.

Sure.  That's why I said that a POTS that fails in an hour or so is "poorly 
constructed".

Still, any telecom service is going to deal only with limited power failures.  
Once the batteries drain, or the generators run out of fuel, *poof*.  And any 
of them rely on quite complex infrastructure that can, and sometimes will, fall 
apart.  I still remember a small NH telco which broke 911 service for a full 
day because their SONET loop wasn't a loop.  They had only bothered to connect 
one end, so when a squirrel chewed through a fiber cable the supposedly fault 
tolerant connection wasn't, and the whole town went off line.

> This is one of the reasons that TelCo equipment had such massive battery 
> backups.
> 
> I expect that a true analog (B1) phone line should stay in service even 
> without power.

It certainly does, which is why I still use them.  Then again, mine is the only 
house of about 20 on this one-mile stretch of line that still uses POTS.

paul

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
I doubt that will work quite like you are thinking.  There is more to an 
analog phone line than the audio that comes over it.  Namely the loop current 
and voltage are also additional bits of signaling.

I don't think there is such a thing as a cross over phone line.


A "Phone Line Simulator" is a small box that permits interconnecting two 
POTs.  The one that I had/have(if I find it), also can create a ring 
signal.



If you can find a Type L handset, it will fit acoustic couplers, but is a 
crude attempt to LOOK like an "antique" pre-type G handset.

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Mark G Thomas via cctalk]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 02:07:59PM -0700, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> On 01/16/2018 12:18 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> >I suppose one could emulate the telephone carrier dial tone and
> >ring back tone with a third device, then the modems would just act
> >like a direct connection after their handshake?
> 
> I doubt that will work quite like you are thinking.  There is more
> to an analog phone line than the audio that comes over it.  Namely
> the loop current and voltage are also additional bits of signaling.
> 
> I don't think there is such a thing as a cross over phone line.
> 
> You will quite likely need something like an old school PBX that
> provides analog ports to pull this off.

Teltone and several other companies made/make phone line similators
which provide battery, dial tone, ringing, caller ID (sometimes), DTMF 
(and maybe even pulse?) dialing between several ports. These are designed 
for testing and demonstrating fax machines, modems, and other analog 
phone gear.  I'm not talking about the sophisticated bench testing gear 
simulators which provide simulated line loss, delays, and noise, but 
the simple small portable 2-8 line devices. A quick search on e-bay 
produces lots of listings for these devices.

Mark

-- 
Mark G. Thomas (m...@misty.com), KC3DRE

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 02:07 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Which of course also goes out if the power fails, perhaps not as quickly 
as a poorly constructed POTS system but it will.  Various emergency 
sitatuations (hurricanes etc.) have demonstrated this repeatedly.


That surprises me.  In Missouri, analog (a.k.a. B1) phone lines are 
considered "life saving devices" and have (had?) mandates to be 
available for service even when the power is out.


This is one of the reasons that TelCo equipment had such massive battery 
backups.


I expect that a true analog (B1) phone line should stay in service even 
without power.


I've also seen a number of VoIP offerings that include a battery backup 
both in the ATA and various equipment along the aggregation path for 
this very reason.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 01:19 AM, Martin Meiner via cctech wrote:

Hello guys.


Hi,

I am a passionate collector of old computer hardware (PDP8’s) and 
terminals from the very early 70ies.


To each his / her own.

It has always been my aim to be able to connect a modem or an acoustic 
coupler directly to one of my ASCII terminals, dial a number and be 
connected…with Google!


Okay.

Are you wanting to connect to Google, like you would a specific BBS?  Or 
are you wanting to connect to something, like an ISP, that you can then 
use to connect to Google across the internet?


The difference is subtle from the terminal's point of view, but very 
important.


Something like Google-interface but converted to match ASCII terminals 
(only text, very simple graphics).


I've seen a number of textual interfaces to Google, usually via TUI 
based web browsers.


I am aware that all searches that return pictures and graphics will 
not be displayed. But at least search-page should be in plain text, 
and many websites may as well. Wikipedia would be great…


I don't think that text only is strictly necessary.

1)  There are programs that can convert images into ASCII art.  (With 
varying degrees of success.)

2)  Some terminals support various types of graphics.

I have recently been playing with Sixel and ReGIS graphics, which both 
come from DEC VT2xx / VT3xx / VT4xx days.  So in theory, you could have 
actual 4 or maybe 16 (?) color graphics show up on a DEC VT440 (?) terminal.


Does anybody know if there exists such an access-number where this 
conversion is already made, or is there a small device on the market that 
allows on one side connect to a dial-up modem and on the other side to 
the terminal and doing the ASCII conversion stand-alone?


I am 99.999% certain that Google has never had an access-number (ala BBS 
style).


I think you're really talking about an old system that provides a shell 
account and a text mode browser to the internet.  -  There are MANY over 
the years.


You could do similar via null modem cable between a terminal and 
something like a Raspberry Pi.


It's my understanding that the WiFi232 pretends to be a modem that can 
initiate TCP connections and convert them to serial.  (Think telnet / 
netcat.)


You could obviously insert a pair of modems and phone lines between the 
terminal and the dial up server.  -  I personally would not want to pay 
for the two phone lines needed to do such.


That being said, I suspect that you could get slower modem speeds to 
work across ATAs & VoIP, or even an old analog phone switch.  (I've 
talked with people about using an old AT / Lucent / Avaya 'Partner' 
class phone system for this.


 It would be really cool to be able to demonstrate to folks that these 
 terminals can actually look up pages on Google and (with limitations) 
 also access some pages.


It should be relatively easy to have the terminal connect to a unix 
system and have it run programs to connect.


Something similar has actually been done in an artistic way 
a few years ago under: http://www.masswerk.at/googleBBS/ or 
http://www.masswerk.at/google60/


googleBBS seems to provide an example of the ASCII art graphic.  15 
seconds of looking didn't show any telnet (et al) ability to access 
googleBBS.


I've seen and messed with Google60 for different reasons (mainframe 
predilections) before.  -  I'm sad to see that Google60 no longer works 
because "Sorry, the Google Web Search API has been shut down in May 2016."



But I need the real thing working where I can connect my terminals to…


The big issues that I see are:

1)  Do you want the terminal to connect (dial) directly to endpoints, 
ala BBS style?  Or do you want to connect (dial) to an intermediary 
system that can connect to things on your behalf.
2)  I'm not aware of any dumb (or otherwise) terminals that support IP, 
via SLIP or PPP.  So I think you're going to need /something/ to gateway 
between serial and IP via a dial up connection via SLIP or PPP.


I personally would be interested in something, like a Raspberry Pi that 
can function as a shell account server that can accept the (dial up) 
connection on a serial port, and then gateway to the internet via 
standard text mode utilities.


I'd be very interested in text mode utilities that support (basic) 
graphics via Sixel (or ReGIS).



Any help is appreciated


I don't know if it's help or not, but it's at least feedback.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 01:19 AM, Martin Meiner via cctech wrote:

Hello guys.


Hi,

I am a passionate collector of old computer hardware (PDP8’s) and 
terminals from the very early 70ies.


To each his / her own.

It has always been my aim to be able to connect a modem or an acoustic 
coupler directly to one of my ASCII terminals, dial a number and be 
connected…with Google!


Okay.

Are you wanting to connect to Google, like you would a specific BBS?  Or 
are you wanting to connect to something, like an ISP, that you can then 
use to connect to Google across the internet?


The difference is subtle from the terminal's point of view, but very 
important.


Something like Google-interface but converted to match ASCII terminals 
(only text, very simple graphics).


I've seen a number of textual interfaces to Google, usually via TUI 
based web browsers.


I am aware that all searches that return pictures and graphics will 
not be displayed. But at least search-page should be in plain text, 
and many websites may as well. Wikipedia would be great…


I don't think that text only is strictly necessary.

1)  There are programs that can convert images into ASCII art.  (With 
varying degrees of success.)

2)  Some terminals support various types of graphics.

I have recently been playing with Sixel and ReGIS graphics, which both 
come from DEC VT2xx / VT3xx / VT4xx days.  So in theory, you could have 
actual 4 or maybe 16 (?) color graphics show up on a DEC VT440 (?) terminal.


Does anybody know if there exists such an access-number where this 
conversion is already made, or is there a small device on the market that 
allows on one side connect to a dial-up modem and on the other side to 
the terminal and doing the ASCII conversion stand-alone?


I am 99.999% certain that Google has never had an access-number (ala BBS 
style).


I think you're really talking about an old system that provides a shell 
account and a text mode browser to the internet.  -  There are MANY over 
the years.


You could do similar via null modem cable between a terminal and 
something like a Raspberry Pi.


It's my understanding that the WiFi232 pretends to be a modem that can 
initiate TCP connections and convert them to serial.  (Think telnet / 
netcat.)


You could obviously insert a pair of modems and phone lines between the 
terminal and the dial up server.  -  I personally would not want to pay 
for the two phone lines needed to do such.


That being said, I suspect that you could get slower modem speeds to 
work across ATAs & VoIP, or even an old analog phone switch.  (I've 
talked with people about using an old AT / Lucent / Avaya 'Partner' 
class phone system for this.


 It would be really cool to be able to demonstrate to folks that these 
 terminals can actually look up pages on Google and (with limitations) 
 also access some pages.


It should be relatively easy to have the terminal connect to a unix 
system and have it run programs to connect.


Something similar has actually been done in an artistic way 
a few years ago under: http://www.masswerk.at/googleBBS/ or 
http://www.masswerk.at/google60/


googleBBS seems to provide an example of the ASCII art graphic.  15 
seconds of looking didn't show any telnet (et al) ability to access 
googleBBS.


I've seen and messed with Google60 for different reasons (mainframe 
predilections) before.  -  I'm sad to see that Google60 no longer works 
because "Sorry, the Google Web Search API has been shut down in May 2016."



But I need the real thing working where I can connect my terminals to…


The big issues that I see are:

1)  Do you want the terminal to connect (dial) directly to endpoints, 
ala BBS style?  Or do you want to connect (dial) to an intermediary 
system that can connect to things on your behalf.
2)  I'm not aware of any dumb (or otherwise) terminals that support IP, 
via SLIP or PPP.  So I think you're going to need /something/ to gateway 
between serial and IP via a dial up connection via SLIP or PPP.


I personally would be interested in something, like a Raspberry Pi that 
can function as a shell account server that can accept the (dial up) 
connection on a serial port, and then gateway to the internet via 
standard text mode utilities.


I'd be very interested in text mode utilities that support (basic) 
graphics via Sixel (or ReGIS).



Any help is appreciated


I don't know if it's help or not, but it's at least feedback.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 12:18 PM, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
I suppose one could emulate the telephone carrier dial tone and ring 
back tone with a third device, then the modems would just act like a 
direct connection after their handshake?


I doubt that will work quite like you are thinking.  There is more to an 
analog phone line than the audio that comes over it.  Namely the loop 
current and voltage are also additional bits of signaling.


I don't think there is such a thing as a cross over phone line.

You will quite likely need something like an old school PBX that 
provides analog ports to pull this off.


My other email (which still hasn't shown up to the list) went into more 
details.  TL;DR:  I think an old school AT / Lucent / Avaya 'Partner' 
phone system would be a good candidate as they provide analog ports and 
had relatively simple dialing plan.  I've picked them up from swap meets 
/ ham fests for ~$20.


As far as I know, ISDN is similarly difficult to emulate.  You really 
need an ISDN switch to do it.  :-(


I'm so glad there are others who want to accurately recreate the whole 
user experience!
It's part of the fun.  Learning and overcoming problems.  It really 
makes you appreciate where we are now, compared to where we have been.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> ...
> Of course, when the power goes out during a winter storm, *everything*
> goes out, even if you have emergency backup power for your home.  Said
> fiber-fed terminal has only about an hour of reserve power,
> 
> So a mobile phone, lousy coverage and all, is still a necessity.

Which of course also goes out if the power fails, perhaps not as quickly as a 
poorly constructed POTS system but it will.  Various emergency sitatuations 
(hurricanes etc.) have demonstrated this repeatedly.

paul

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 12:31 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> The WHOLE experience?
> howzbout BUSY signal, random drop of calls, noisy/static? on line, . . .
> maybe even include human error, and randomly [rarely] dial wrong number

Or trying to call Los Gatos from Sunnyvale using an acoustic modem?  (LG
was GTE, Sunnyvale was Ma Bell--connections were tenuous at best).

Although you can get a copper POTS connection in my neighborhood, it
terminates at a fiber-fed terminal.  If you're going to get Internet
anyway, you might as well go to third-party VoIP.

I did, some time ago; I use one of the Obitalk boxes, so I can keep my
obsolescent telephones.  No problem--*I'm* obsolescent myself.

Of course, when the power goes out during a winter storm, *everything*
goes out, even if you have emergency backup power for your home.  Said
fiber-fed terminal has only about an hour of reserve power,

So a mobile phone, lousy coverage and all, is still a necessity.

--Chuck

RE: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Ali via cctalk]

> http://biosrhythm.com/?page_id=1453
> 
> I tried one out on a tandy 1000 and it worked flawlessly. I had set up
> linux system and made it remotely accessable via telnet, and was able
> to reach it via the dos running tandy 1000. I did not have the correct
> adapter at the time, but i dont see anything stopping you from plugging
> it into a vt100 directly.

Now that is interesting. So how does it work? Once you plug it in to your modem 
do you use your favorite term program (e.g. Procomm Plus, Telix, etc.) to dial 
into a telnet system? At modem speeds? I assume it does not emulate the lovely 
modem handshake signs though? 

-Ali

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[devin davison via cctalk]

I personally have had a hard time even trying to get a traditional
POTS phone line installed over here. The only offerings from atnt and
comcast are voip nonsense. Its kinda redundant and buggy trying to
dial up over a comcast voip line. ive tried it, it drops constantly.
The sales staff do not even know what i am asking for when i ask for a
traditional line over a voip line.

Being as it was so hard to get a phone line set up over here, i looked
into this as an option. Its called a wifi232.

http://biosrhythm.com/?page_id=1453

I tried one out on a tandy 1000 and it worked flawlessly. I had set up
linux system and made it remotely accessable via telnet, and was able
to reach it via the dos running tandy 1000. I did not have the correct
adapter at the time, but i dont see anything stopping you from
plugging it into a vt100 directly.

I was looking to use the phone line as a kind of last resort
connection to deliver mail and keep in touch, but ironically, it goes
down more often than any other provider, and is the first thing to go
in a storm. I personally have been looking into getting a cheap cell
phone under the provider "ting" which only bills you for the data
used. Set that up as a wifi hotspot and get it talking to the wifi232
connected to a dumb terminal and i think it would be a good setup. if
you telnet into a linux system that has the lynx web browser
installed, you can view google and wikipedia quite easily.

Let me know if you think that kind of setup would be of any use to you.



On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 01/16/2018 03:38 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> I do this routinely, albeit with a terminal emulator and ssh session
>> rather than a physical terminal and modem.
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>> My "small device" is a Debian Linux box in Germany on which I read mail
>> and Usenet, do IRC, etc. I wrote a trivial Perl script called "google" that
>> inspects its arguments, and constructs a search URL which it passes to
>> elinks, a text-mode web browser. A similarly-trivial "wikipedia" script
>> could be written. Some web sites such as Twitter recognize the elinks
>> User-Agent and switch to a non-JavaScript "mobile" site. Facebook doesn't
>> work, but there's nothing of value there anyway.
>
>
> Nice.
>
>> A physical serial connection is simpler than a pair of modems, so start
>> with that. Run a null modem cable between your terminal and COM1 on the
>> Linux box, edit the inittab to add a getty for /dev/ttyS0 with the
>> appropriate terminal type (there's usually a commented-out example) and
>> reload init. A similar principle applies to USB-serial dongles, but they're
>> a bit unreliable so try to use a proper on board serial port if possible.
>
>
> I'm curious what sort of issues you've had with USB based serial ports. Is
> it the fact that USB devices can change names?  Or is it a race condition
> between driver load and getty launching?  Or something else?
>
>> Linux's "vt100" terminal type differs somewhat from DEC's in that it
>> includes command sequences that an original VT100 does not and some
>> full-screen applications will render incorrectly,
>
>
> That surprises me.
>
> Is it actually the VT100 definition in termcap / terminfo?  Or are you
> referring to the fact that Linux uses the "linux" (?) term type in lieu of
> the "vt100" term type?
>
>> but a VT220 worked OK when I last tried, back in 2003-ish. If the render
>> is occasionally off-by-one -- you'll know it when you see it -- it means
>> that the terminal is configured for 24 lines and the Unix box for 25 lines
>> or vice-versa. Use the terminal's settings menu and/or tweak $LINES/$COLUMNS
>> on the Linux box.
>
>
> *nod*
>
> I feel like theses are issues that were prevalent back in the days of serial
> terminals.  Probably not new.  If anything, new variants in an existing
> messy soup.
>
> Throw some DEC MMJs and LAT in for good measure.  }:-)
>
>> Dial up is a refinement of this. You will need to use "mgetty" instead
>> which understands Hayes commands and other modem control signals, but it
>> might not be installed by default.
>
>
> Why is mgetty required?  Are you referring to the fact that mgetty can
> discern the difference between text / SLIP / PPP / FTN / fax / voice and
> hand the connection off to the proper back end?
>
> If the port is dedicated for this, then I don't think mgetty (or any other
> fancy getty) is required.
>
>> Note that 15 years ago we were running sysvinit, and now we have the Brave
>> New World of systemd, which is overcomplicated GUI junk and probably doesn't
>> support serial terminals. If you decide to build this, find a Linux
>> distribution without systemd, or use something like FreeBSD.
>
>
> Why will systemd be a blocker?  Shouldn't any self proclaimed init system be
> able to launch a daemon (what ever it's dependencies / arguments are) and
> re-spawn it when it exits?  -  Why does systemd need to know anything about
> 

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Tue, 16 Jan 2018, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

I suppose one could emulate the telephone carrier dial tone and ring back
tone with a third device, then the modems would just act like a direct
connection after their handshake?
I'm so glad there are others who want to accurately recreate the whole user
experience!
=]


The WHOLE experience?
howzbout BUSY signal, random drop of calls, noisy/static? on line, . . .
maybe even include human error, and randomly [rarely] dial wrong number

the ring signal, at least around here, is 90V 20Hz?


Howzbout acoustic couplers with the various phone handsets that did NOT 
fit them?

I no longer have any of my Livermore modems.

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 03:38 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote:
I do this routinely, albeit with a terminal emulator and ssh session 
rather than a physical terminal and modem.


Agreed.

My "small device" is a Debian Linux box in Germany on which I read mail 
and Usenet, do IRC, etc. I wrote a trivial Perl script called "google" 
that inspects its arguments, and constructs a search URL which it passes 
to elinks, a text-mode web browser. A similarly-trivial "wikipedia" 
script could be written. Some web sites such as Twitter recognize the 
elinks User-Agent and switch to a non-JavaScript "mobile" site. Facebook 
doesn't work, but there's nothing of value there anyway.


Nice.

A physical serial connection is simpler than a pair of modems, so start 
with that. Run a null modem cable between your terminal and COM1 on 
the Linux box, edit the inittab to add a getty for /dev/ttyS0 with the 
appropriate terminal type (there's usually a commented-out example) 
and reload init. A similar principle applies to USB-serial dongles, 
but they're a bit unreliable so try to use a proper on board serial port 
if possible.


I'm curious what sort of issues you've had with USB based serial ports. 
Is it the fact that USB devices can change names?  Or is it a race 
condition between driver load and getty launching?  Or something else?


Linux's "vt100" terminal type differs somewhat from DEC's in that it 
includes command sequences that an original VT100 does not and some 
full-screen applications will render incorrectly,


That surprises me.

Is it actually the VT100 definition in termcap / terminfo?  Or are you 
referring to the fact that Linux uses the "linux" (?) term type in lieu 
of the "vt100" term type?


but a VT220 worked OK when I last tried, back in 2003-ish. If the 
render is occasionally off-by-one -- you'll know it when you see it -- 
it means that the terminal is configured for 24 lines and the Unix box 
for 25 lines or vice-versa. Use the terminal's settings menu and/or 
tweak $LINES/$COLUMNS on the Linux box.


*nod*

I feel like theses are issues that were prevalent back in the days of 
serial terminals.  Probably not new.  If anything, new variants in an 
existing messy soup.


Throw some DEC MMJs and LAT in for good measure.  }:-)

Dial up is a refinement of this. You will need to use "mgetty" instead 
which understands Hayes commands and other modem control signals, but 
it might not be installed by default.


Why is mgetty required?  Are you referring to the fact that mgetty can 
discern the difference between text / SLIP / PPP / FTN / fax / voice and 
hand the connection off to the proper back end?


If the port is dedicated for this, then I don't think mgetty (or any 
other fancy getty) is required.


Note that 15 years ago we were running sysvinit, and now we have 
the Brave New World of systemd, which is overcomplicated GUI junk and 
probably doesn't support serial terminals. If you decide to build this, 
find a Linux distribution without systemd, or use something like FreeBSD.


Why will systemd be a blocker?  Shouldn't any self proclaimed init 
system be able to launch a daemon (what ever it's dependencies / 
arguments are) and re-spawn it when it exits?  -  Why does systemd need 
to know anything about the serial port?  Why can't systemd just launch 
(m)getty which is monitoring the serial port.  -  Or are you saying that 
the (systemd based) login program that (m)getty would call might have 
issues.


Note:  I am anti-systemd.  But I don't see how Master Control Program, 
ala Tron, can prevent (m)getty from working on a modern distribution. 
Granted, the OP might need to create some custom systemd config files. 
But I view that as more of a speed bump than an actual blocker.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

I suppose one could emulate the telephone carrier dial tone and ring back
tone with a third device, then the modems would just act like a direct
connection after their handshake?

I'm so glad there are others who want to accurately recreate the whole user
experience!

=]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 10:06 AM Tapley, Mark via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:38 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 08:19:34AM +, Martin Meiner via cctech wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Does anybody know if there exists such anaccess-number where this
> conversion
> >> is already made, or is there a small deviceon the market that allows on
> one
> >> side connect to a dial-up modem and on theother side to the terminal and
> >> doing the ASCII conversion stand-alone?
> >
> > I do this routinely, albeit with a terminal emulator and ssh session
> rather
> > than a physical terminal and modem.
> >
> > My "small device" is a Debian Linux box in Germany on which I read mail
> and
> > Usenet, do IRC, etc. I wrote a trivial Perl script called "google" that
> > inspects its arguments, and constructs a search URL which it passes to
> elinks,
> > a text-mode web browser. A similarly-trivial "wikipedia" script could be
> > written. Some web sites such as Twitter recognise the elinks User-Agent
> and
> > switch to a non-Javascript "mobile" site. FaceBook doesn't work, but
> there's
> > nothing of value there anyway.
> >
> > A physical serial connection is simpler than a pair of modems, so start
> with
> > that. Run a null modem cable between your terminal and COM1 on the Linux
> box,
> > edit the inittab to add a getty for /dev/ttyS0 with the appropriate
> terminal
> > type (there's usually a commented-out example) and reload init. A similar
> > principle applies to USB-serial dongles, but they're a bit unreliable so
> try to
> > use a proper onboard serial port if possible.
> >
> > Linux's "vt100" terminal type differs somewhat from DEC's in that it
> includes
> > command sequences that an original VT100 does not and some full-screen
> > applications will render incorrectly, but a VT220 worked OK when I last
> tried,
> > back in 2003-ish. If the render is occasionally off-by-one -- you'll
> know it
> > when you see it -- it means that the terminal is configured for 24 lines
> and
> > the Unix box for 25 lines or vice-versa. Use the terminal's settings menu
> > and/or tweak $LINES/$COLUMNS on the Linux box.
> >
> > Dialup is a refinement of this. You will need to use "mgetty" instead
> which
> > understands Hayes commands and other modem control signals, but it might
> not be
> > installed by default.
> >
> > Note that 15 years ago we were running sysvinit, and now we have the
> Brave New
> > World of systemd, which is overcomplicated GUI junk and probably doesn't
> > support serial terminals. If you decide to build this, find a Linux
> > distribution without systemd, or use something like FreeBSD.
> >
>
> I’m not even that advanced, I’m just trying to get OmniWeb on my NeXTStep
> 3,3 machine to hit wikipedia. Wikipedia seems to have gone to https, and
> for some reason that is not working. I can do ssh and sftp from that
> machine, so I must be doing something wrong with the Omniweb settings.
> - Mark
>
>
> --
--
Anders Nelson
+1 (517) 775-6129
www.erogear.com

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 01/16/2018 10:47 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
> > From: Jay West
> 
> > I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for imaging
> 
> Why? I sent some tapes out to Chuck to get read, those went by USPS, and no
> problem (well, one had some drop-outs, but they were old and not in great
> shape; the other one read fine).

Sorry, I haven't been following this thread.  Sure, I can treat and read
some tapes.  9-track, I assume? (I can also do 7-track).

Taking some time to see after miscellaneous personal stuff, but they'll
get done eventually.

--Chuck

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Jay West

> I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for imaging

Why? I sent some tapes out to Chuck to get read, those went by USPS, and no
problem (well, one had some drop-outs, but they were old and not in great
shape; the other one read fine).

Noel

Re: DECtape madness

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jan 16, 2018, at 1:04 PM, Doug Ingraham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 7:34 AM, David Bridgham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> I've wondered if you might not make DECtape tape from 3/4" video tape.
>> I know that DECtape has mylar on both sides but what if you somehow
>> glued two strips of video tape together with the mylar backing on the
>> outside.  Probably want to build a jig of some sort and I'm not sure
>> what glue to use.
>> 
> 
> I have read on several occasions about the mylar on both faces of the
> tape.  I have over 300 reels of DECTape in my collection.  Most of these
> are 3M Scotch branded but around 30 of them are DEC branded in the blue
> plastic boxes.  I have never seen one with mylar on both sides.  This may
> have been something that existed early on but certainly wasn't the norm.

Well, the spec is clear about a protective layer on top.  And I've always been 
told that it's mylar.  And the fact that DECtape is far more wear resistant 
than regular magtape makes it clear it isn't constructed the same way.

It is correct that it doesn't have a glossy top layer matching the glossy 
substrate.  But that doesn't mean there isn't a top layer present.

paul

Re: Long Shot - Looking for boards from a Western Electric 101-A modem

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Make that a 28 (Baudot) not a 35 

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Pete Lancashire 
wrote:

> Think 101-C's are rare ?
>
> This weekend a Teletype model 35 came home with me and the attached
> Western Electric 101-A modem is missing its boards.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/rZNAt20Vh9CXAflA3
>
> -pete
>

Re: DECtape madness

[Doug Ingraham via cctalk]

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 7:34 AM, David Bridgham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I've wondered if you might not make DECtape tape from 3/4" video tape.
> I know that DECtape has mylar on both sides but what if you somehow
> glued two strips of video tape together with the mylar backing on the
> outside.  Probably want to build a jig of some sort and I'm not sure
> what glue to use.
>

I have read on several occasions about the mylar on both faces of the
tape.  I have over 300 reels of DECTape in my collection.  Most of these
are 3M Scotch branded but around 30 of them are DEC branded in the blue
plastic boxes.  I have never seen one with mylar on both sides.  This may
have been something that existed early on but certainly wasn't the norm.



-- 
Doug Ingraham
PDP-8 SN 1175

Long Shot - Looking for boards from a Western Electric 101-A modem

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Think 101-C's are rare ?

This weekend a Teletype model 35 came home with me and the attached
Western Electric 101-A modem is missing its boards.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rZNAt20Vh9CXAflA3

-pete

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I understand very well your concerns about sending by mail rare data on 
magnetic media. It's a pity that I live so far away (in Belgium), even 
if I have not finished to configure my machines, at the end I should be 
able to write anything on any media, and concerning magnetic tapes it 
will be from 500 to 6250 bpi.


If one day you find in your stock a communication board for Nova 1200 
that you do not use please note that I am a potential buyer.


In the meantime, I have to find solutions to reopen all my old monsters 
to the outside world ;-)


Dominique

On 16/01/2018 15:19, Jay West via cctalk wrote:

The 'other Jay' wrote...
--
Diagnostics for DG systems are notoriously difficult to find.  I have a few, in 
listing format.
--
I have a full official DG-issued/labeled original diagnostic OS tape. I do 
believe it is at 800bpi though. If I had an 800 bpi drive (everything I have is 
1600-6250) I'd image it for everyone.

I have a nice S/130 rack that I was almost finished restoring till Bruce Ray 
stopped responding. It's been sitting in my workshop for years now and I may 
have to just get rid of it. Next to it is a pile of about 8 nova 800/1200 cpus 
(all stuffed with boards) that I was going to start on next, but was waiting 
till the S/130 was done. I'd like to get done with them so I can move on to 
other machines that need to be restored... but may have to just move them out 
altogether.

I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for imaging maybe I can 
find someone local with an 800 bpi tape drive and eric smith's tapeutils.

J

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello Jay (JRJ),

I'm not sure if I understand well, what do you mean by "drawings", do 
you need additional images of the beast, maybe to better identify it ?

If yes :
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_side.jpg

Regarding SimH it was one of my questions in previous posts: Is there 
way to make bootable tapes with the data provided with SimH, apparently 
the answer is yes and it is excellent news ! I have never used this 
emulator but I will follow your suggestions and try to install the 
equivalent of a Nova 1200.
After I do not know how to convert a disk image into a bootable tape. 
Regarding RDOS I see that I downloaded with SimH a file "rdos_d31.dsk", 
how to proceed to put this .dsk on a tape?
Regarding my hardware, I have two possibilities, I'm currently working 
on a set of machines that I'm going to dedicate to the production of 
bootable media for a whole assortment of machines, I want to be able to 
generate floppies 8 inches, 5 1/4, 3 1/2 (DD or HD), and also 9 track tapes.


For that I have two machines:
- One is a TU81 Plus attached to a VAX 4000-505A running OpenVMS 6.2
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/tu81plus.jpg

- The other is a Shugart (KENNEDY) 9612 which can write in 800, 1600, 
3200 or 6250 bpi, this tape drive is equipped with a SCSI interface but 
I do not know yet if I can connect this drive to a conventional Adaptec 
scsi interface and I do not know which program I can use. I read 
somewhere that Linux seems a good choice concerning the support of old 
tape drive, that'is right ?

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/kennedy_9612.jpg

Anyway, all is to make a 800 bpi bootable tape to mount on the Mag-tape 
Pertec 8840A of my DCC D-116(E).


Regarding the floppy drive I have a project but just started, and as 
usual no information, I recovered this triple 8 inches diskette drive , 
it is a Shugart Model 3800 (or SA3800)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/shugartSA3800_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/shugartSA3800_02.jpg
I found a brochure about this:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/shugart/brochures/Shugart_SA3800_Brochure_Feb78.pdf

I do not know if there is a way to connect this machine to my D-116, I 
don't know if I have the required interface in the D-116, and finally I 
don't know anything about the interface currently present inside the 
SA3800. This machine was hooked to another rare machine, a "Hermes Data 
System 200 FD", machine currently down, and no doc, no info:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/hermes_data_system_200_fd.jpg

I wanted to use the Hermes as a telex and one of these floppy drive - 
Although it's an SD one - for data transfer between my recent machines 
and my dear (still dead) Sperry Univac UTS 40, but that's another topic 
again, sorry, I'm scattering ;-)


FYI I still have many lacks of knowledge, I do not know what an AWS 
image format. I do not know anything about licensing and copywrite 
issues in the context of retro-computer preservation, I've always found 
that very inappropriate in regard of the efforts we make, the time we 
take on our lives to protect this legacy for the unique purpose of 
preserving a piece of history related to the evolution of technology.
Fortunately there are people like you, in a good spirit of mutual help 
that goes beyond the borders of countries and continents,  a big thank 
you for that!


Dominique


On 16/01/2018 02:16, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:

On 10/4/2017 3:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctech wrote:

Hi all

I start here another topic concerning my research about a new Operating
System for my freshly restored DCC-116 E.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg

I originally intended to install RDOS on my machine but it seems very
difficult to find the files needed to make a system installation tape.


FIRST:  If you have drawings for the DCC, please let me know.  I have
two of them (long in storage in the house, but they ran when I pulled
them from their Unitote/Regitel rack a couple of *decades* ago.

There is an RDOS - disk images, available at:

http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html

(Top entry in the list)  It is about a 2.5MB disk image.

I suggest that you might download SimH and that image, configure SimH as
a straight Nova (rather than a /3 or /4) and see if it runs that image
OK.  If so, there you go!

Beyond that, I *might* be able to help, but it will depend on what the
status of copyright is on what I have, and whether your system can even
run what I do have.  I am looking into the copyright part of it - that
may take a week or two.  (This is something I needed to to anyway).

In the meantime:

Do you have a way to *write* a 

RE: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Jay West via cctalk]

The 'other Jay' wrote...
--
Diagnostics for DG systems are notoriously difficult to find.  I have a few, in 
listing format.
--
I have a full official DG-issued/labeled original diagnostic OS tape. I do 
believe it is at 800bpi though. If I had an 800 bpi drive (everything I have is 
1600-6250) I'd image it for everyone.

I have a nice S/130 rack that I was almost finished restoring till Bruce Ray 
stopped responding. It's been sitting in my workshop for years now and I may 
have to just get rid of it. Next to it is a pile of about 8 nova 800/1200 cpus 
(all stuffed with boards) that I was going to start on next, but was waiting 
till the S/130 was done. I'd like to get done with them so I can move on to 
other machines that need to be restored... but may have to just move them out 
altogether.

I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for imaging maybe I can 
find someone local with an 800 bpi tape drive and eric smith's tapeutils.

J

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Tapley, Mark via cctalk]

On Jan 16, 2018, at 4:38 AM, Peter Corlett via cctalk  
wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 08:19:34AM +, Martin Meiner via cctech wrote:
> [...]
>> Does anybody know if there exists such anaccess-number where this conversion
>> is already made, or is there a small deviceon the market that allows on one
>> side connect to a dial-up modem and on theother side to the terminal and
>> doing the ASCII conversion stand-alone?
> 
> I do this routinely, albeit with a terminal emulator and ssh session rather
> than a physical terminal and modem.
> 
> My "small device" is a Debian Linux box in Germany on which I read mail and
> Usenet, do IRC, etc. I wrote a trivial Perl script called "google" that
> inspects its arguments, and constructs a search URL which it passes to elinks,
> a text-mode web browser. A similarly-trivial "wikipedia" script could be
> written. Some web sites such as Twitter recognise the elinks User-Agent and
> switch to a non-Javascript "mobile" site. FaceBook doesn't work, but there's
> nothing of value there anyway.
> 
> A physical serial connection is simpler than a pair of modems, so start with
> that. Run a null modem cable between your terminal and COM1 on the Linux box,
> edit the inittab to add a getty for /dev/ttyS0 with the appropriate terminal
> type (there's usually a commented-out example) and reload init. A similar
> principle applies to USB-serial dongles, but they're a bit unreliable so try 
> to
> use a proper onboard serial port if possible.
> 
> Linux's "vt100" terminal type differs somewhat from DEC's in that it includes
> command sequences that an original VT100 does not and some full-screen
> applications will render incorrectly, but a VT220 worked OK when I last tried,
> back in 2003-ish. If the render is occasionally off-by-one -- you'll know it
> when you see it -- it means that the terminal is configured for 24 lines and
> the Unix box for 25 lines or vice-versa. Use the terminal's settings menu
> and/or tweak $LINES/$COLUMNS on the Linux box.
> 
> Dialup is a refinement of this. You will need to use "mgetty" instead which
> understands Hayes commands and other modem control signals, but it might not 
> be
> installed by default.
> 
> Note that 15 years ago we were running sysvinit, and now we have the Brave New
> World of systemd, which is overcomplicated GUI junk and probably doesn't
> support serial terminals. If you decide to build this, find a Linux
> distribution without systemd, or use something like FreeBSD.
> 

I’m not even that advanced, I’m just trying to get OmniWeb on my NeXTStep 3,3 
machine to hit wikipedia. Wikipedia seems to have gone to https, and for some 
reason that is not working. I can do ssh and sftp from that machine, so I must 
be doing something wrong with the Omniweb settings.
- Mark

Re: Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Peter Corlett via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 08:19:34AM +, Martin Meiner via cctech wrote:
[...]
> Does anybody know if there exists such anaccess-number where this conversion
> is already made, or is there a small deviceon the market that allows on one
> side connect to a dial-up modem and on theother side to the terminal and
> doing the ASCII conversion stand-alone?

I do this routinely, albeit with a terminal emulator and ssh session rather
than a physical terminal and modem.

My "small device" is a Debian Linux box in Germany on which I read mail and
Usenet, do IRC, etc. I wrote a trivial Perl script called "google" that
inspects its arguments, and constructs a search URL which it passes to elinks,
a text-mode web browser. A similarly-trivial "wikipedia" script could be
written. Some web sites such as Twitter recognise the elinks User-Agent and
switch to a non-Javascript "mobile" site. FaceBook doesn't work, but there's
nothing of value there anyway.

A physical serial connection is simpler than a pair of modems, so start with
that. Run a null modem cable between your terminal and COM1 on the Linux box,
edit the inittab to add a getty for /dev/ttyS0 with the appropriate terminal
type (there's usually a commented-out example) and reload init. A similar
principle applies to USB-serial dongles, but they're a bit unreliable so try to
use a proper onboard serial port if possible.

Linux's "vt100" terminal type differs somewhat from DEC's in that it includes
command sequences that an original VT100 does not and some full-screen
applications will render incorrectly, but a VT220 worked OK when I last tried,
back in 2003-ish. If the render is occasionally off-by-one -- you'll know it
when you see it -- it means that the terminal is configured for 24 lines and
the Unix box for 25 lines or vice-versa. Use the terminal's settings menu
and/or tweak $LINES/$COLUMNS on the Linux box.

Dialup is a refinement of this. You will need to use "mgetty" instead which
understands Hayes commands and other modem control signals, but it might not be
installed by default.

Note that 15 years ago we were running sysvinit, and now we have the Brave New
World of systemd, which is overcomplicated GUI junk and probably doesn't
support serial terminals. If you decide to build this, find a Linux
distribution without systemd, or use something like FreeBSD.

Google, Wikipedia directly on ASCII terminal?

[Martin Meiner via cctalk]

Hello guys. 


I am a passionate collector of old computerhardware (PDP8’s) and terminals from 
the very early 70ies. 


It has always been my aim to be able toconnect a modem or an acoustic coupler 
directly to one of my ASCII terminals,dial a number and be connected…with 
Google! 

Something like Google-interface but convertedto match ASCII terminals (only 
text, very simple graphics). 

I am aware that all searches that returnpicture sand graphics will not be 
displayed. But at least search-page should bein plain text, and many websites 
may as well. Wikipedia would be great… 


Does anybody know if there exists such anaccess-number where this conversion is 
already made, or is there a small deviceon the market that allows on one side 
connect to a dial-up modem and on theother side to the terminal and doing the 
ASCII conversion stand-alone? 

 It would be really cool to be able todemonstrate to folks that these terminals 
can actually look up pages on Googleand (with limitations) also access some 
pages. 

Something similar has actually been done in an artisticway a few years ago 
under: http://www.masswerk.at/googleBBS/or http://www.masswerk.at/google60/

But I need the real thing working where I canconnect my terminals to… 


Any help is appreciated