RE: who is in this picture? (VCF 199x)

[wayne.smith--- via cctalk]

 

Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 04:21:40 -0600 

From: Michael Lee  

To: cct...@classiccmp.org [2] 

Subject: Re: who is in this picture? (VCF 199x) 

Message-ID:  

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed 

***Sorry to be picking up this thread so late - I'm behind in my
reading - but I have a bunch of pictures that I took at this show
here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/AysFbl8Dhv4qn23V2

I believe that's Pavl Zachary... 

Photo from 2004 VCF West 7: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geekmuseum/2908317855 [4] 

On 1/30/2018 3:55 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: 

>
https://retropopplanet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vintage-computer.jpg
[5] 

>  

> I was not at this particular VCF out in California in the later
90's when 

> this photo of a DEC exhibit was taken; the original picture from
vintage.org 

> is no longer hosted. 

>  

> Does anyone have a copy of the old vintage.org exhibit/photo
archive? 

>  

> Bill  

I believe that's Pavl Zachary... 

Photo from 2004 VCF West 7: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geekmuseum/2908317855 [6] 

On 1/30/2018 3:55 PM, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote: 

>
https://retropopplanet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vintage-computer.jpg
[7] 

>  

> I was not at this particular VCF out in California in the later
90's when 

> this photo of a DEC exhibit was taken; the original picture from
vintage.org 

> is no longer hosted. 

>  

> Does anyone have a copy of the old vintage.org exhibit/photo
archive? 

>  

> Bill

Links:
--
[1] mailto:mike...@tdh.com
[2] mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org
[3] mailto:2a444223-cd25-8686-c836-88313baac...@tdh.com
[4] https://www.flickr.com/photos/geekmuseum/2908317855
[5]
https://retropopplanet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vintage-computer.jpg
[6] https://www.flickr.com/photos/geekmuseum/2908317855
[7]
https://retropopplanet.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/vintage-computer.jpg

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:41 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> The V-series may be a good example of why Intel didn't want to publicize
> the added 8085 instructions.
>

Maybe. What I'd heard from multiple sources was that they only wanted the
8085 to replace the 8080, so it was supposed to be "better" in terms of
being a lower-cost 8080 replacement, needing fewer support chips (except an
address latch, but that's cheaper than an 8228/8238), but they didn't want
it to have a better instruction set that might put it into sockets that
might otherwise get filled with an 8086/8088.

Re: How to enable USB drives in both Windows 98SE AND MS-DOS 7.1.

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

Sorry if this comes across wrong.  I think I'm fighting a meat space 
bug.  As such my filters are a little less functional than normal.


On 02/09/2018 12:00 PM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
Hi, can I appeal to you (and everyone else who writes up these kinds of 
notes) to put this stuff on the Computer History wiki?


You can appeal to me.  But I don't think I'm likely to listen.

And no, I don't have time to upload all this stuff myself - I have too 
much other stuff I'm trying to work on!


This is the primary reason as to why your appeal falls short for me.  (I 
have no idea about others.)


When I write things for my personal site, I want them first and foremost 
to be on my personal site.  I don't really care if they are copied 
elsewhere.  I give people permission to copy, just with credit.


Since I'm going to write for my site first, and I'm having to make time 
to do so, I'm not likely to make additional time to put the content 
elsewhere.



So, please - let's get organized!


I believe that your goal is laudable and should be encouraged.  It's 
just that the unfriendly reality is that time and motivation is 
diametrically opposed to what you're asking.  I think it's more 
important to get things recorded somewhere, even if it's not the ideal 
location, than it is to delay getting them recorded elsewhere, if ever.


Again, your appeal is heard, understood, and sadly dismissed.  At least 
for my current situation.


I'm replying in an attempt to provide a counter point for a discussion 
of reality.  So please don't take this as an attack on you, or your 
laudable appeal.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 01:59 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> I use that as an example of compatibility or extensions another more 
> familiar is the NEC V20 fits in the 8088 socket but has enhanced
> performance and native 8080 emulation mode.
The V-series may be a good example of why Intel didn't want to publicize
the added 8085 instructions.

Aside from 8080 emulation, the V-series also has some x86 "orphan"
instructions, such as the BCD string instructions that were never
carried over into any other x86 design.

It reminds me a bit of the 386 bit-string instructions that were
publicized early on, but never implemented AFAIK in any 80386.

--Chuck

Re: DECwriterIV/LA100s and large DEC monitors available, Cambs UK

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 3:22 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk  wrote:

>
> > On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > LA100-CA
>
> I’m really glad you’re on the right side of the Pond!  I really don’t have
> the space to get tempted by something like this! :-)
>

I believe that I have one w/o keyboard that is surplus to my needs :) And
I'm on the left side of the pond :)

Warner

Re: DECwriterIV/LA100s and large DEC monitors available, Cambs UK

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Feb 9, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Adrian Graham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> LA100-CA 

I’m really glad you’re on the right side of the Pond!  I really don’t have the 
space to get tempted by something like this! :-)

Zane

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Mike Loewen via cctalk]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:


A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?


I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM drives, but the ones that really surprise 
me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and (2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c these 
are amongst the earliest of models.


   At the risk of jinxing my drives, I have a Tandy 6000HD with two 
operational Tandon TM503 drives.  The only thing done was to reformat.



Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology  http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 04:18 PM, Sean Conner wrote:
> It was thus said that the Great allison via cctalk once stated:
>> The industry was loaded with that the 6502 series also had that going on
>> as well as the 6809 and others.
>   Do you have any information about undocumented opcodes for the 6809?  
>
>   -spc
Not a processor I use much bt there is a version of the 6809 that has
additional modes.
Thats the Hitachi 63b09 wich is 6809E compatable save for it has an
extended
mode and more registers.

I use that as an example of compatibility or extensions another more
familiar
is the NEC V20 fits in the 8088 socket but has enhanced performance and
native
8080 emulation mode.

Allison

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 12:26 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> IBM PC early also did that... other vendors of the 8088 didn't work
> in the 64K and early 256K IBM PCs due to a slight timing variation
> that reputedly intel helped design in.  One gate fixed it but it was
> undocumented thing you could getaway with only with Intel 8088s.

Hmm, must have been *very* early PCs, as mine had an AMD 8088 in it--but
wasn't AMD a licensee of the Intel part?   But then, so was NEC.

I think IMSAI used the "different" NEC 8080s in their floppy controller,
as they were inexpensive (because of the incompatibility) and in the
particular application, it didn't matter.

I do recall very early 8085s having a "reset" bug, necessitating some
external glue, but it's been too long for me to remember the details.

--Chuck

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 12:14 PM, allison via cctalk wrote:
> 
> The grand daddy of them all is the RL02 salvaged in 1983 and still 
> running along with two packs from then.  Its life was 9 years of
> Monday through Friday power on and now intermittent about 5 times a
> month since 1994.  Still booting a PDP-11.


I've still got an SA4000 drive here.  I haven't fired it up in donkey's
years, but it would be interesting to see if it still worked.

--Chuck

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Fri, 9 Feb 2018, js--- via cctalk wrote:
A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives 
they're extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?
I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM drives, but the ones that really surprise 
me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and (2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c these 
are amongst the earliest of models.


One factor may be that the earliest models were new attempts, and tended 
to be very carefully engineered, and often conservatively, due to lack of 
prior experience.  On the later drives, they had "learned" and "realized" 
some of the corners that they could cut.  "On analysis of failed drives 
from various problems, it is clear that none of the failed drives were 
even halfway through the life of the lubricants.  Therefore, cheaper 
lubricants and smaller quantities with half the expected life would still 
be adequate to outlast, on average, the other components."?


I've performed *some* work on all these drives, such as cleaning and caps 
reforming, but haven't yet discovered a way to lube motors & bearings.   I 
think lube issues will spell their ultimate demise.


One of the first corners to cut, once analysis of failed units from other 
causes shows that it is outlasting the rest of the unit.


In addition, of course, some lubricants can deteriorate, whereas many 
other components may have no significant impact from time.  Lubricants can 
fail from contaminants that would not affect most other components.

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Sean Conner via cctalk]

It was thus said that the Great allison via cctalk once stated:
> 
> The industry was loaded with that the 6502 series also had that going on
> as well as the 6809 and others.

  Do you have any information about undocumented opcodes for the 6809?  

  -spc

Re: HP 9816 CP/M-68K

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2018-02-09 4:05 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

floppies recovered and uploaded to http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/cpm-68k

I'm pretty sure this will only work in a 9121 single-sided drive but I'll be 
trying
to boot it soon


I would suspect the issue is that it only support Amigo devices so it 
may also work with 9895 or 82901/2  like other early 68K 9800 software 
like HPL, but yeah the boot disk is would seem to be for a 9121 or 
possibly one of the 5.25 drive they quite conveniently have the same 
number of tracks per disk.


Paul.

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 12:23 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/09/2018 05:22 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>
>> Also all of the competitors and second sources that made 8085s had the
>> added instructions.  The are indeed handy too.
> Calmos (then later Tundra) Semiconductor actually documents them in
> detail in their CA80C85 datasheet, but those were from the early 1980s.
> What was interesting was that even through we were working pretty
> tightly with Intel in 1976, not a word of the added instructions was
> uttered by our sales guy, "Fast Eddie", who usually was pretty well
> informed about the goings on over in Santa Clara.   Bill Davidow was on
> our BOD as well.
>
> That's a shame; we could have used those instructions too.
>
> --Chuck
>
Interesting story the NEC 8085A was a reverse engineer and was faithful to
the then (pre 1980) hidden instructions.  NEC learned hard form the 8080
as it was not compatible (they belived the datasheet) and would lead to the
8080AFC (A version, fully compatable).

If anyone didn't that's a first as every part I could get did at least
after 1978.

I new of the instruction back in 78-79 when I got a Netronics Explorer85
(8085 powered with a short s100 bus).  I bought and built it to play with
8085 and the magic instructions.

IBM PC early also did that... other vendors of the 8088 didn't work in the
64K and early 256K IBM PCs due to a slight timing variation that
reputedly intel helped design in.  One gate fixed it but it was undocumented
thing you could getaway with only with Intel 8088s.

The industry was loaded with that the 6502 series also had that going on
as well as the 6809 and others.


Allison

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 01:05 PM, js--- via cctalk wrote:
>
>
> On 2/9/2018 12:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>> On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:
>>
>>> At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
>>> height)
>>> that are really old and getting older and still work without issues.
>>> Some of those
>>> have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.
>> I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
>> case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.
>>
>> --Chuck
>
>
> A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives
> they're extremely surprised are still working, and which model(s)?

Working Drive some of which I bought new...

These are all MFM:
 2 st506  1 new in 1981, last tested 1 year ago and still has the base
install of CP/M 2.2.
    It was my first hard disk in my Northstar Horizon S100 crate and
still visits there.
    Its hard to imagine when 5MB seemed like a huge unfillable space.
2 St412  both gotten used (one was RD51) both work but one has stiction
so startup
   the first time in a while requires manual twist of the drive(inertia).
 3 ST225 one was former RD31 all work though they have been formatted
for RQDX2,
    RQDX3 and WD1003 at different times.
  1 ST250, out of a PC rescue back in the early 90s, still hasn't died.
14 Q540s some as old as 1985 all work no failures yet.  The first one I
have was "tossed"
      literally as bad by field circus (dec internal in 1986) only to
find the RQDX2 had
  croaked.  By tossed I mean dropped from 3Ft into a steel trash
can.  Reformatted
  (high level using XXDP) for RQDX2 its served me since.  Yes, I
pick trash.
 3  RD53 aka 1325s ll had spindown from head sticking to bumper, opened
and fixed
    with the oldest picked up used in 1991.
 1 CDC (wren) 3.5" MFM picked up used in '93 and paired with a Xybec
controller in my
    Micromint SBC180.

SCSI group:
In the SCSI class I have a large collection of PC and VAX drives from
RZ22 though RZ56s
and those that worked when I got them still do over 20 years later. 
This is a mix of 3.5
and 5inch full height.

Of those from PCs the Baracuda 1gb drives  have proven bullet proof.  I
have 4 that
came from system upgrades (2001) that have at least 2 years 24/7 when I
got them.
Note the replacement Maxtor drives (9gb) tended to fail after about 13
months
(humm pattern, yes?).

One noteable SCSI drive is a 3.5" Fugitsu SCSI 45MB given to me for a
AMPROLB+
still running more than 20 years and used just yesterday to assemble
some 8085 code.

IDE:
Large selection of pulls all tested good.  Noteables were the 420mb WD,
4.3GB WD and
St3660A.  Oddballs like a 5.25 thin bigfoot (slowest and reputed to be
the worst for failure)
in linux 486box thats still running Slackware 1.2.

In all cases the drive mentioned are not less than 15 years old most
greater than
25 and a few pushing more than 35 years.

The grand daddy of them all is the RL02 salvaged in 1983 and still
running along
with two packs from then.  Its life was 9 years of Monday through Friday
power on
and now intermittent about 5 times a month since 1994.  Still booting a
PDP-11.


Allison

HP 9816 CP/M-68K

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

floppies recovered and uploaded to http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/cpm-68k

I'm pretty sure this will only work in a 9121 single-sided drive but I'll be 
trying
to boot it soon

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 9:56 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 02/08/2018 07:18 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
> > At some point I read an article or a transcript of an interview with an
> > Intel employee (or former employee) who had been involved with the design
> > of the 8085, describing how he had specified additional instructions over
> > those of the 8080, and they had been implemented in the silicon, but then
> > the decision was made to not document any of the new instructions other
> > than RIM and SIM.
> >
> > I no longer recall which Intel employee that was, and can't find the
> > article or interview. Does anyone else remember that, and perhaps have a
> > copy?
>
> Do you mean Cort Allen?   His email a couple of years ago was:
>
> manofqu...@aol.com
>

That's not the interview I was thinking of, but it's definitely interesting!

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 10:57 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:

> For those that don't want to read through the entire datasheet,
> https://electronicerror.blogspot.com/2007/08/undocumented-flags-and-instructions.html
> has a good summary.

RIM and SIM were always documented for the 8085.   Not doing so would
have made it difficult to use the added features, such as "half" and
TRAP interrupts, in addition to bit-bang serial I/O.

In the Calmos document cited by Al, the discussion of added flags and
instructions begins on PDF page 39 and is much clearer.

--Chuck

DECwriterIV/LA100s and large DEC monitors available, Cambs UK

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

Hi folks,

Clearing out some of the larger DEC pieces I have, does anyone want these 
before I offer them to the Centre For Computing History?  They’d need to be 
collected from Cambridgeshire, or I can deliver them if the distance is 
reasonable. I kind of need the space quickly too. 

Usual caveat as working-when-last-powered-up :)

3x LA100-CA with keyboards
VRT19 with video cable, last powered up in Dec 2014
VR319 mono VXT monitor 
VR261 mono workstation monitor
VXT1200
VXT1000
Alpha 3000-400, maybe 2 if I can find the 2nd one.

Cheers,

—
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk  t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs

Re: How to enable USB drives in both Windows 98SE AND MS-DOS 7.1.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Terry Stewart

> 
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2018-02-05-USB-in-MS-DOS-and-Win98.htm

> Hopefully the article will be useful to others who might want to do
> this.

Hi, can I appeal to you (and everyone else who writes up these kinds of
notes) to put this stuff on the Computer History wiki?

When things like this get placed in the CCTalk archives (for which there is
no search system other than Google), or on people's personal sites (ditto) -
and I have in the past BTDT for both of these, myself - it's probably going
to be hard to find them amidst all the other dross that a Google search
typically produces, a couple of years down the road.

With the CHWiki, we stand a chance of filtering out the useful information
and making available, and _organizing_ all this stuff so that it's possible
to find relevant information when it's needed...

And no, I don't have time to upload all this stuff myself - I have too much
other stuff I'm trying to work on! :-)

So, please - let's get organized!

Noel

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk  wrote:

>
>
> On 2/9/18 9:23 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
>
> > Calmos (then later Tundra) Semiconductor actually documents them in
> > detail in their CA80C85 datasheet, but those were from the early 1980s.
>
>
> the info is still out there
> http://saxelec.com/doc/T8000.pdf


For those that don't want to read through the entire datasheet,
https://electronicerror.blogspot.com/2007/08/undocumented-flags-and-instructions.html
has a good summary.

Warner

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/9/18 10:05 AM, js--- via cctalk wrote:

> A tangential question out of curiosity: who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
> extremely surprised are still working, and
> which model(s)?

Looking around after purging about 100 dead drives a few months ago..

CDC Wrens seem to be holding up OK, IMI 5012 and 5018 and ST-412s

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 2/9/18 9:23 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

> Calmos (then later Tundra) Semiconductor actually documents them in
> detail in their CA80C85 datasheet, but those were from the early 1980s.


the info is still out there
http://saxelec.com/doc/T8000.pdf

power cord end

[Adrian Stoness via cctalk]

anyone know of a power cord designation simlar to nema 13 but smaller its
used on a roland R8 has round pins has a power brick between it and te ain
power plug

https://electricdenimstudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Roland-R8-MKII-Vintage-Drum-Machine-Human-Rhythm-Composer-02.jpg
http://www.vintagesynth.com/sites/default/files/2017-05/roland_r8mkii_rear_lg.jpg

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[js--- via cctalk]

On 2/9/2018 12:25 PM, Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk wrote:

On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:


At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
height)
that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
Some of those

have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.

I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.

--Chuck



A tangential question out of curiosity: 
who here has 5.25" MFM drives they're 
extremely surprised are still working, 
and which model(s)?


I'll start.  I've quite a few MFM 
drives, but the ones that really 
surprise me are (2) Seagate ST-506, and 
(2) IMI CM-5412.   My surprise is b/c 
these are amongst the earliest of models.


I've performed *some* work on all these 
drives, such as cleaning and caps 
reforming, but haven't yet discovered a 
way to lube motors & bearings.   I think 
lube issues will spell their ultimate 
demise.


- John

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 05:20 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
> height)
> that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
> Some of those
> have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.

I've still got a Q540 mounted on its side in a MAD Intelligent Systems
case--I fired it up about a week ago and it's still working just fine.

--Chuck

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 05:22 AM, allison via cctalk wrote:

> Also all of the competitors and second sources that made 8085s had the
> added instructions.  The are indeed handy too.

Calmos (then later Tundra) Semiconductor actually documents them in
detail in their CA80C85 datasheet, but those were from the early 1980s.
What was interesting was that even through we were working pretty
tightly with Intel in 1976, not a word of the added instructions was
uttered by our sales guy, "Fast Eddie", who usually was pretty well
informed about the goings on over in Santa Clara.   Bill Davidow was on
our BOD as well.

That's a shame; we could have used those instructions too.

--Chuck

Re: Intel 8085 - interview?

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/08/2018 11:56 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/08/2018 07:18 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
>> At some point I read an article or a transcript of an interview with an
>> Intel employee (or former employee) who had been involved with the design
>> of the 8085, describing how he had specified additional instructions over
>> those of the 8080, and they had been implemented in the silicon, but then
>> the decision was made to not document any of the new instructions other
>> than RIM and SIM.
>>
>> I no longer recall which Intel employee that was, and can't find the
>> article or interview. Does anyone else remember that, and perhaps have a
>> copy?
> Do you mean Cort Allen?   His email a couple of years ago was:
>
> manofqu...@aol.com
>
> He wrote;
>
> Actually, all of these instructions were 100% tested when they were
> manufactured at Intel. The test program used to test these devices
> contained all of these instructions and was written to do an extensive
> test on ALL instructions in many combinations and order. So, unless the
> 8085 broke after it was shipped, these instructions were tested and were
> working.
>
> I know this because I was the Test Engineer at Intel that developed the
> 8085 Production Test Program. I wrote all the code for this test and it
> ran on a Megatest @8000 test system.
>

Also all of the competitors and second sources that made 8085s had the
added instructions.  The are indeed handy too.

Allison

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[allison via cctalk]

On 02/09/2018 01:40 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
> On 02/08/2018 10:17 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
>> Any idea if the drive orientation during storage might make any
>> difference in the failure rate? Usual PCB side down, PCB side up,
>> either side down, either end down? My guess it that it is best to
>> store them in the usual PCB side down orientation, but that is just a
>> guess.
> Mine are stored on their sides, but I wonder if storing them inverted
> (PCB down) would be best for ensuring lubrication distribution.
>
> --Chuck
>
I've found flat pcb down seems better.  Those working are stored that
way and those
I've found for spares or parts are on their side currently.   Most I've
found have been
fried already.

Most common problem head crash, likely due to handling. Second up are
servo issues
maybe due to high temps (some were formerly used in PCs with very poor
cooling)
and the remainder had board level issues.  Of the board level problems
the motor
drive fried, and positioner driver dead.  One had a bad microprocessor n
the
positioner subsystem.  The remainder seem to have likely suffered some ESD
or power supply hit. 

Like I said earlier these drives used a lot of power and ran hot, the
lonest lasting 
and still working units were in BA123 which has better cooling.  I know
from my
time at DEC if the drive was in a MicroVAX2000 the drive life was about
half and
a drive in a ba23 was longer lasting.  Also those mounted on edge seemed
a bit longer lasting.  The differential between the uVAX2J abd the BA123
life
was about 2:1 (about 2 years 24/7 against better than 4),

At the other extreme I have over a dozen Quantum D540s (RD52 31mb full
height)
that are really old and getting older and still work without issues. 
Some of those
have sat on the shelf for a decade and work fine when I need one.


Allison

Re: OpenVMS software repositories?

[Michael-John Turner via cctalk]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2018 at 03:30:17AM +, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

On Feb 7, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
wrote:
I'd suggest that you redirect your question to the comp.os.vms 
newsgroup.  I frequently see discussions there about software archives. 
In fact, you can probably search an archive of the group and find some 
answers to your question.


I need to see about getting back on comp.os.vms, I???ve not been active there 
in a decade.


There's also the info-vax mailing list, which is a mail<->Usenet gateway 
for comp.os.vms.


[1] http://info-vax.com/mailman/listinfo/info-vax_info-vax.com

Cheers, MJ
--
Michael-John Turner * m...@mjturner.net * http://mjturner.net/ 

RE: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of emanuel
> stiebler via cctalk
> Sent: 09 February 2018 08:16
> To: Ian ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
> Posts 
> Subject: Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death
> 
> On 2018-02-08 21:05, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> > On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives
> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year
> warranty.
> >> Be thankful they lasted this long.
> >
> > Good point.
> >
> > The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime
> too- pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.
> >
> > I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and
> repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this 
> long, gold
> scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case.
> 
> I thought there are some MFM drive emulators out there by now?

Indeed there are. I use the one designed by David Gesswein, it is great. 
However I think the OP was talking about ESDI as well. I don't know how ESDI 
differs from MFM.

Regards

Rob 

Re: Maxtor full-height 5.25" drives of death

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2018-02-08 21:05, Ian via cctalk wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2018, at 11:03, Tom Gardner via cctalk  
> wrote:
>>
>> XT2190 was first produced in 3Q 1984 and last produced in 1989 which gives 
>> yours a remarkable life span and well beyond the them at most 5 year 
>> warranty.
>> Be thankful they lasted this long.
> 
> Good point. 
> 
> The lisp machines I’ve been using the drives with are way past their prime 
> too- pushing 34+ years outside of their warranty.
> 
> I think next time one fails, instead of trying to understand the problem and 
> repair it so it can last another 30, I’ll just be thankful it lasted this 
> long, gold scrap the boards, and build a gaming PC out of the case. 

I thought there are some MFM drive emulators out there by now?