Re: pdp-11 ethernet boot
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: > > The boot ROMs for uPDP-11 contain loaders for XH (ethernet) was there any > kind of standard for the server? I'd guess that it was mostly for DECserver 500/550s to boot off of a VAX/VMS host. So... yes, a MOP server running on a VAX. Pat
pdp-11 ethernet boot
The boot ROMs for uPDP-11 contain loaders for XH (ethernet) was there any kind of standard for the server? It tries to load from a MOP DL server and I have modified mopd from NetBSD to respond and load 2.11bsd a.out. So I have a solution, but was curious if there was some DEC standard.
Re: The DosFish (object oriented GUIS)
That’s a great one! Best summary of this thread so far. Thanks for sharing. Marc > On Oct 28, 2018, at 10:36 AM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk > wrote: > > This was circulating in 1995/6. IBM had been shipping the very good > OS/2 for some years and Microsoft was trying to catch up. Someone did > a very nice parody. > > Jeff > > *The Legend of the Pea Sea* > Long ago, in the days when all disks flopped in the breeze and the > writing of words was on a star, the Blue Giant dug for the people the > Pea Sea. But he needed a creature who could sail the waters, and would > need for support but few rams. > So the Gateskeeper, who was said to be both micro and soft, fashioned a > Dosfish, who was small and spry, and could swim the narrow sixteen-bit > channel. But the Dosfish was not bright, and could be taught few > tricks. His alphabet had no A's, B's, or Q's, but a mere 640 K's, and > the size of his file cabinet was limited by his own fat. > At first the people loved the Dosfish, for he was the only one who > could swim the Pea Sea. But the people soon grew tired of commanding > his line, and complained that he could neither be dragged nor dropped. > "Forsooth," they cried, "the Dosfish can only do one job at a time, and > of names he knows only eight and three." And many of them left the Pea > Sea for good, and went off in search of the Magic Apple. > Although many went, far more stayed, because admittance to the Pea Sea > was cheap. So the Gateskeeper studied the Magic Apple, and rested > awhile in the Parc of the XerOx, and he made a Window that could ride > on the Dosfish and do its thinking for it. But the Window was slow, and > it would break when the Dosfish got confused. So most people contented > themselves with the Dosfish. > Now it came to pass that the Blue Giant came upon the Gateskeeper, and > spoke thus: "Come, let us make of ourselves something greater than the > Dosfish." The Blue Giant seemed like a humbug, so they called the new > creature Oz II. > Now Oz II was smarter than the Dosfish, as most things are. It could > drag and drop, and could keep files without becoming fat. But the > people cared for it not. So the Blue Giant and the Gateskeeper promised > another Oz II, to be called Oz II Too, that could swim fast in the new, > 32-bit wide Pea Sea. > Then lo, a strange miracle occurred. Although the Window that rode on > the Dosfish was slow, it was pretty, and the third Window was prettiest > of all. And the people began to like the third Window, and to use it. > So the Gateskeeper turned to the Blue Giant and said, "Fie on thee, for > I need thee not. Keep thy Oz II Too, and I shall make of my Window an > Entity that will not need the Dosfish, and will swim in the 32-bit Pea > Sea." > Years passed, and the workshops of the Gateskeeper and the Blue Giant > were many times overrun by insects. And the people went on using their > Dosfish with a Window; even though the Dosfish would from time to time > become confused and die, it could always be revived with three fingers. > Then there came a day when the Blue Giant let forth his Oz II Too onto > the world. The Oz II Too was indeed mighty, and awesome, and required a > great ram, and the world was changed not a whit. For the people said, > "It is indeed great, but we see little application for it." And they > were doubtful, because the Blue Giant had met with the Magic Apple, and > together they were fashioning a Taligent, and the Taligent was made of > objects, and was most pink. > Now the Gateskeeper had grown ambitious, and as he had been ambitious > before he grew, he was now more ambitious still. So he protected his > Window Entity with great security, and made its net work both in > serving and with peers. And the Entity would swim, not only in the Pea > Sea, but in the Oceans of Great Risk. "Yea," the Gateskeeper declared, > "though my entity will require a greater ram than Oz II Too, it will be > more powerful than a world of Eunuchs." > And so the Gateskeeper prepared to unleash his Entity to the world, in > all but two cities. For he promised that a greater Window, a greater > Entity, and even a greater Dosfish would appear one day in Chicago and > Cairo, and it too would be built of objects. > Now the Eunuchs who lived in the Oceans of Great Risk, and who scorned > the Pea Sea, began to look upon their world with fear. For the Pea Sea > had grown and great ships were sailing in it, the Entity was about to > invade their Oceans, and it was rumored that files would be named in > letters greater than eight. And the Eunuchs looked upon the Pea Sea, > and many of them thought to immigrate. > Within the Oceans of Great Risk were many Sun Worshippers, and they had > wanted to excel, and make their words perfect, and do their jobs as > easy as one-two-three. And what's more, many of them no longer wanted > to pay for the Risk. So the Sun Lord went to the Pea Sea, and got > himself eighty-sixed. > And taking the next step
Re: DEC 8640 Pinout
SOme history that might come in handy - pbir...@gmail.com March 8th, 2014, 11:37 PM The DEC PDP-11 Unibus Handbook identifies three standard ICs for use when connecting to Unibus lines: Bus Receiver - 8640 Quad NOR Bus Transceiver - 8641 Quad Bus Driver - 8861 Quad NAND It seems to be generally agreed that the 8861 driver/transmitter can be substituted by the 7439 Quad 2 Input NAND Buffer O.C. There seems to be no recognized physical substitute for the 8640, at least in part because it uses the 1 & 8 pins rather than 7 & 14 pins for GND/VCC, respectively (see Figure 1-25). Is that correct? What have folks been doing when needing to physically replace one of these -- substitute from a sacrificial module? For new designs, or rewiring old ones (dead-bug?), is there a generally agreed logical substitute for the 8640? Unibus handbook Figure 1-30 does specify the RC-equivalent input for this IC but I have not as yet tried to cross-walk it against well-known SN74xx-series chips. I imagine that I'm the umpteenth person to encounter this problem, so before I try to rediscover fire I'm hoping that someone else could share their torch of knowledge :->? On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 2:19 PM Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk wrote: > > 8640 looks like a date code; most dec chip numbers begin with "DC". > > On 10/28/18, 6:53 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Rob Jarratt via cctalk" > wrote: > > I am trying to trace the reason why the CPU on my Pro 350 is apparently > being constantly reset. I have reached a DEC 8640 chip. Does anyone have a > pinout for it, perhaps even a datasheet, so I can understand what it is > supposed to do and whether the pin is an input or an output? > > > > Thanks > > > > Rob > > > >
RE: DEC 8640 Pinout
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850...@gmail.com] > Sent: 28 October 2018 18:15 > To: r...@jarratt.me.uk > Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Subject: Re: DEC 8640 Pinout > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 6:10 PM Rob Jarratt > wrote: > > > Thanks for the datasheet. I have to say I am not totally convinced that I > have correctly identified the reset pin on the F11 because there seems to be > a lot of logic behind it. This particular path I am pursuing now seems a bit > more promising though. I have not checked the DC OK pin yet as I wasn't > sure which one it was and I was hoping my tracing would take me back to the > PSU, but I haven't reached it yet. I suppose I have been assuming that the > LED means it is OK, but perhaps it isn't. Hopefully this 8640 will take me > closer. When you say it is pin 1 on the connector, which side are you counting > from? > > > No idea how the pins are numbered. But the Pro380 printset seems to show > pin 2 as the polarising key.And the pin at the other end of the connector is > logic ground which you must be able to check. > Knowing the 8640 pinout now I was able to trace one of its inputs to the PSU connector, which appears to confirm that DC OK is next to the polarising pin. I can now confirm that DC OK is stable. It seems from my reverse engineering of the schematic that this allows other signals to control the reset state of the F11, but these other signals appear to be driven by clock signals, which is rather confusing at the moment. > That printset includes a schematic of the PSU which might help too. > > -tony
Cossor/Raytheon DIDS-400
I just rescued a Cossor DIDS-400 terminal from ending up at the garbage dump. Cossor was a UK company, that ended up as a Raytheon subsidiary, and the Cossor DIDS-400 was marketed as the Raytheon DIDS-400 in the US. My terminal is model no 402-2/C15, part no D/GA 800260, serial no 023, option table code 321121. Date codes on the IC’s are in 1968. Internally, there’s some interesting technology; ITT MIC9xx DTL IC’s, a piano wire delay line for character storage, and a Raytheon Symbolray monoscope tube as the character generator. I’d love to get this terminal working again, and to that end I’m looking for any kind of service documentation (any other documentation would be welcome too, as I have nothing). The power supply in this terminal consists of two parts, manufactured by Best Products Ltd, of Felixstowe, Suffolk, models 508-L (low voltage supply), and 508-H (high-voltage supply). Any documentation on these would be most welcome, too. Kind regards, Camiel Vanderhoeven
Re: Cossor/Raytheon DIDS-400
On 10/28/18, 10:21 AM, "cctech on behalf of Toby Thain via cctech" wrote: On 2018-10-28 5:21 a.m., Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech wrote: > I just rescued a Cossor DIDS-400 terminal from ending up at the garbage dump. What a fantastic rescue. I for one will be very interested in our new terminal overlords--- I mean, hearing about the restoration. Will you be (v)blogging it somewhere? --Toby Yes, the first installment is here: https://vaxbarn.com/index.php/feat/41-acquisitions/677-saving-private-cossor Camiel
Re: DEC 8640 Pinout
8640 looks like a date code; most dec chip numbers begin with "DC". On 10/28/18, 6:53 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Rob Jarratt via cctalk" wrote: I am trying to trace the reason why the CPU on my Pro 350 is apparently being constantly reset. I have reached a DEC 8640 chip. Does anyone have a pinout for it, perhaps even a datasheet, so I can understand what it is supposed to do and whether the pin is an input or an output? Thanks Rob
Re: Cossor/Raytheon DIDS-400
On 2018-10-28 5:21 a.m., Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech wrote: > I just rescued a Cossor DIDS-400 terminal from ending up at the garbage dump. What a fantastic rescue. I for one will be very interested in our new terminal overlords--- I mean, hearing about the restoration. Will you be (v)blogging it somewhere? --Toby
Data Systems Design DSD-4140 microcode PROMs
Hello Everyone, We found a PDP-11 QBUS card cage with a KDF11 and some other cards (RAM, ROM, some basic peripherals) which included a DSD-4140 card. Unfortunately, the DSD-4140 is missing one of it's microcode PROMs for some reason. Does anyone else have one of these cards? It'd be really helpful if we could get some dumps of the 4 microcode PROMs so we can compare what we have and look into replacing what we don't have with an adapted modern part. (and if anyone goes to the trouble to read the 4 microcode PROMs, there's also an 82S137 that deserves to be dumped). Here's a picture of the card in question: https://i.imgur.com/tzYjPYF.jpg Regards, Joe Zatarski
Re: source for smt probe clip
On 10/27/2018 06:19 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: Has anyone seen a source for these clips? http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG They come with the Salae logic analyzer, and are like the HP logic analyzer clips in that the wire is detachable, instead of the common style you can buy where you have to solder on a wire. HP and Tek both made ultra-micro grabbers for use with logic analyzers. I've got a few for the Tek 9100/1240 series analyzers. They have an anodized or painted metal tube with two springy wires in it. The wires have bends right at the end, and the button extends the wires, opening up the grabber. You might check eBay under logic analyzer accessories or the like. The one you link to looks just a little different, but I think is somewhat similar. Jon
Re: DEC 8640 Pinout
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 6:10 PM Rob Jarratt wrote: > Thanks for the datasheet. I have to say I am not totally convinced that I > have correctly identified the reset pin on the F11 because there seems to be > a lot of logic behind it. This particular path I am pursuing now seems a bit > more promising though. I have not checked the DC OK pin yet as I wasn't sure > which one it was and I was hoping my tracing would take me back to the PSU, > but I haven't reached it yet. I suppose I have been assuming that the LED > means it is OK, but perhaps it isn't. Hopefully this 8640 will take me > closer. When you say it is pin 1 on the connector, which side are you > counting from? No idea how the pins are numbered. But the Pro380 printset seems to show pin 2 as the polarising key.And the pin at the other end of the connector is logic ground which you must be able to check. That printset includes a schematic of the PSU which might help too. -tony
RE: DEC 8640 Pinout
> -Original Message- > From: Tony Duell [mailto:ard.p850...@gmail.com] > Sent: 28 October 2018 18:04 > To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Jarratt RMA ; General > Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: DEC 8640 Pinout > > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 5:53 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > > > > I am trying to trace the reason why the CPU on my Pro 350 is > > apparently being constantly reset. I have reached a DEC 8640 chip. > > Does anyone have a pinout for it, perhaps even a datasheet, so I can > > understand what it is supposed to do and whether the pin is an input or an > output? > > > > I've sent the data sheet by private e-mail. > > Have you looked at the Pro380 printset on bitsavers? The reset input on the > J11 chip in that machine comes from the DCOK pin on the power supply (Pin > 1 of the PSU connector). It's also buffered by an 8640 for other bits of the > systen. I would not be surprised if the Pro 350 is similar. > > Are you_sure_ the DCOK pin on the power supply is stable and not > oscillating? > Thanks for the datasheet. I have to say I am not totally convinced that I have correctly identified the reset pin on the F11 because there seems to be a lot of logic behind it. This particular path I am pursuing now seems a bit more promising though. I have not checked the DC OK pin yet as I wasn't sure which one it was and I was hoping my tracing would take me back to the PSU, but I haven't reached it yet. I suppose I have been assuming that the LED means it is OK, but perhaps it isn't. Hopefully this 8640 will take me closer. When you say it is pin 1 on the connector, which side are you counting from? Thanks Rob
Re: DEC 8640 Pinout
> From: Rob Jarratt > DEC 8640 chip. Does anyone have a pinout for it, perhaps even a > datasheet, That's almost certainly a DS8640; a quad NOR unified bus receiver. Data sheets for the are readily available. Noel
Re: DEC 8640 Pinout
On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 5:53 PM Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote: > > I am trying to trace the reason why the CPU on my Pro 350 is apparently > being constantly reset. I have reached a DEC 8640 chip. Does anyone have a > pinout for it, perhaps even a datasheet, so I can understand what it is > supposed to do and whether the pin is an input or an output? > I've sent the data sheet by private e-mail. Have you looked at the Pro380 printset on bitsavers? The reset input on the J11 chip in that machine comes from the DCOK pin on the power supply (Pin 1 of the PSU connector). It's also buffered by an 8640 for other bits of the systen. I would not be surprised if the Pro 350 is similar. Are you_sure_ the DCOK pin on the power supply is stable and not oscillating? -tony
DEC 8640 Pinout
I am trying to trace the reason why the CPU on my Pro 350 is apparently being constantly reset. I have reached a DEC 8640 chip. Does anyone have a pinout for it, perhaps even a datasheet, so I can understand what it is supposed to do and whether the pin is an input or an output? Thanks Rob
Re: The DosFish (object oriented GUIS)
This was circulating in 1995/6. IBM had been shipping the very good OS/2 for some years and Microsoft was trying to catch up. Someone did a very nice parody. Jeff *The Legend of the Pea Sea* Long ago, in the days when all disks flopped in the breeze and the writing of words was on a star, the Blue Giant dug for the people the Pea Sea. But he needed a creature who could sail the waters, and would need for support but few rams. So the Gateskeeper, who was said to be both micro and soft, fashioned a Dosfish, who was small and spry, and could swim the narrow sixteen-bit channel. But the Dosfish was not bright, and could be taught few tricks. His alphabet had no A's, B's, or Q's, but a mere 640 K's, and the size of his file cabinet was limited by his own fat. At first the people loved the Dosfish, for he was the only one who could swim the Pea Sea. But the people soon grew tired of commanding his line, and complained that he could neither be dragged nor dropped. "Forsooth," they cried, "the Dosfish can only do one job at a time, and of names he knows only eight and three." And many of them left the Pea Sea for good, and went off in search of the Magic Apple. Although many went, far more stayed, because admittance to the Pea Sea was cheap. So the Gateskeeper studied the Magic Apple, and rested awhile in the Parc of the XerOx, and he made a Window that could ride on the Dosfish and do its thinking for it. But the Window was slow, and it would break when the Dosfish got confused. So most people contented themselves with the Dosfish. Now it came to pass that the Blue Giant came upon the Gateskeeper, and spoke thus: "Come, let us make of ourselves something greater than the Dosfish." The Blue Giant seemed like a humbug, so they called the new creature Oz II. Now Oz II was smarter than the Dosfish, as most things are. It could drag and drop, and could keep files without becoming fat. But the people cared for it not. So the Blue Giant and the Gateskeeper promised another Oz II, to be called Oz II Too, that could swim fast in the new, 32-bit wide Pea Sea. Then lo, a strange miracle occurred. Although the Window that rode on the Dosfish was slow, it was pretty, and the third Window was prettiest of all. And the people began to like the third Window, and to use it. So the Gateskeeper turned to the Blue Giant and said, "Fie on thee, for I need thee not. Keep thy Oz II Too, and I shall make of my Window an Entity that will not need the Dosfish, and will swim in the 32-bit Pea Sea." Years passed, and the workshops of the Gateskeeper and the Blue Giant were many times overrun by insects. And the people went on using their Dosfish with a Window; even though the Dosfish would from time to time become confused and die, it could always be revived with three fingers. Then there came a day when the Blue Giant let forth his Oz II Too onto the world. The Oz II Too was indeed mighty, and awesome, and required a great ram, and the world was changed not a whit. For the people said, "It is indeed great, but we see little application for it." And they were doubtful, because the Blue Giant had met with the Magic Apple, and together they were fashioning a Taligent, and the Taligent was made of objects, and was most pink. Now the Gateskeeper had grown ambitious, and as he had been ambitious before he grew, he was now more ambitious still. So he protected his Window Entity with great security, and made its net work both in serving and with peers. And the Entity would swim, not only in the Pea Sea, but in the Oceans of Great Risk. "Yea," the Gateskeeper declared, "though my entity will require a greater ram than Oz II Too, it will be more powerful than a world of Eunuchs." And so the Gateskeeper prepared to unleash his Entity to the world, in all but two cities. For he promised that a greater Window, a greater Entity, and even a greater Dosfish would appear one day in Chicago and Cairo, and it too would be built of objects. Now the Eunuchs who lived in the Oceans of Great Risk, and who scorned the Pea Sea, began to look upon their world with fear. For the Pea Sea had grown and great ships were sailing in it, the Entity was about to invade their Oceans, and it was rumored that files would be named in letters greater than eight. And the Eunuchs looked upon the Pea Sea, and many of them thought to immigrate. Within the Oceans of Great Risk were many Sun Worshippers, and they had wanted to excel, and make their words perfect, and do their jobs as easy as one-two-three. And what's more, many of them no longer wanted to pay for the Risk. So the Sun Lord went to the Pea Sea, and got himself eighty-sixed. And taking the next step was He of the NextStep, who had given up building his boxes of black. And he proclaimed loudly that he could help anyone make wondrous soft wares, then admitted meekly that only those who know him could use those wares, and he was made of objects, and required the biggest ram of all. And the people looked out
Re: "Object Oriented GUI"
I used OS/2 from 1993 to 2003 almost exclusively. It has the most beautiful GUI on the planet, is object-oriented to a fault, and is the target of all the claims Microsoft was making with regard to the Object-orientedness of their new windows 95. Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_Shell mentions some important attributes of a truely object-oriented gui. Someone mentioned inheritance and polymorphism. These are two products of true object oriented gui design. Applications inherit the ability to manipulate and use whatever objects exist in the system. A word processor is not limited to just text files, for example, or to only the files the programmer originally set out for it. The system allows the applications to grow in functionality as new object types are developed/assembled by other applications or the user. I gather, though I have not had the opportunity to play with it, that the Next Gui was also extreme in its object-orientedness, though I can't see that from MACOS (its inheritor), I understood that to be the case? At any rate, if you want a fantastic example of a object-oriented graphical user interface, check out the Workplace Shell. Jeff
Re: source for smt probe clip
I've got lots and lots in HP probe kits. Just gota brand new HP probe kit for #40 with some 80 clips and 4 "Hydra" termination cables. The HP P/N is 16715-68702 ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- http://www.tabajara-labs.blogspot.com http://www.tabalabs.com.br ---8<---Corte aqui---8<--- Em sáb, 27 de out de 2018 às 21:42, Al Kossow via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> escreveu: > Has anyone seen a source for these clips? > > http://bitsavers.org/mysteries/salea_clip.JPG > > They come with the Salae logic analyzer, and are like the HP logic > analyzer clips > in that the wire is detachable, instead of the common style you can buy > where you have to solder on a wire. > >
Re: source for smt probe clip
On 10/28/18 9:15 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > Software is then pretty simple. Display a .1" grid of points (41x67) and each > single-pin probe sweep is a net. foo, I forgot about the CPU board. the grid needs to be 67x86 :-(
Re: source for smt probe clip
On 10/27/18 9:13 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 10/27/18 7:37 PM, Eric Smith wrote: >> EZ-Hook XKM > > thanks! > > https://sigrok.org/wiki/Probe_comparison > > is a breakdown. they note that Salae used to ship EZ-Hook but now ship a > knock-off (no EZ-Hook name molded on) > This request was related to the displaywriter board prober I'm working on I've abandoned DIP clips for individual wires My current thoughts on the probes are a single sense comparator, and an string of tlc6c598 DMOS drivers to common on a strip of 41 POGO pins on a push solenoid moved across the x axis of the board by the AxiDraw. Setup of the scan is easy, the chip has clear, load and shift. On each pass, clear the chain, load a 1 on the serial input then shift to probe the other 40 pins. Step and repeat. This is simple enough the whole thing should be able to be bit banged by an FTDI UM245R Software is then pretty simple. Display a .1" grid of points (41x67) and each single-pin probe sweep is a net. Light the hits so you don't bother scanning points that are already in a net. Start with power and ground. An added benefit is you'll pick up the DIP, power and ground connections to all the passives, as well as all of the vias in the net and connections to the IBM cans that you can't probe from the top.
Apple PowerMac G4 Mdd mobo + CPU + MOS license
hi guys I have a motherboard + CPU G4 @1.2Ghz for sale it's the last revision of the MDD PowerMac G4 and it comes with a license for Morphos (MOS) located in Italy cheers
