Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
Many thanks to all those who are helping me!Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy. Messaggio originale Da: cctech-requ...@classiccmp.org Data: 11/06/19 19:00 (GMT+01:00) A: cct...@classiccmp.org Oggetto: cctech Digest, Vol 57, Issue 11 Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctechor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at cctech-owner@classiccmp.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAME (Pontus Pihlgren) 2. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 3. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 4. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Peter Corlett) 5. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Peter Corlett) 6. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 7. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 8. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org) (dwight) 9. Old soaftware and documentation (Electronics Plus) 10. June 22 (Electronics Plus) 11. Re: Old soaftware and documentation (Grant Taylor) 12. Re: Old soaftware and documentation (Noel Chiappa) 13. RE: Old soaftware and documentation (Electronics Plus) 14. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Tomasz Rola) 15. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger) 16. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Tony Duell) 17. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Chuck Guzis) 18. RE: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Birkel) 19. What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick? (Liam Proven) 20. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 21. RE: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick? (Paul Birkel) 22. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger) 23. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger)--Message: 1Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:56:30 +0200From: Pontus Pihlgren To: Al Kossow , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAMEMessage-ID: <20190610095630.2a3dnxf6dvc75...@update.uu.se>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiThat is impressive! Is it close to real time we are seeing?/POn Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 10:38:35AM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:> pretty cool..> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6E0_qgfGGQ> --Message: 2Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:57:34 +0200From: Liam Proven Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Modems and external dialers.Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:45, Stefan Skoglund wrote:>> The economist wrote about this (> https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/06/08/how-the-pursuit-of-leisure-drives-internet-use> )>> The current situation is this:> it is much more important for Apple and Samsung to sell overpriced> things to consumers which then basically only will be used to play> games, look on sport games and youtube films.Fair point.And in the tropics, it is more important than ever that a device issealed, waterproof, has no moving parts, etc. -- to keep it tough.Cheap & replaceable are more important than convenient and repairable.> What you used the Psion for will only sell about 4 percent of apples> volumes last year> The screen of the machine i write this on, stands on a sun sparcstation> 10.> If i had that machine running well i would be as productive writing> reports on that one as on the asus tower which i now uses.I know what you mean, and I agree.I just wish a few more companies thought like Planet Computers andtried to make devices for rich niches, rather than the cheap massmarket...https://planetcom.squarespace.com/-- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamprovenEmail: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven@gmail.comTwitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamprovenUK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053--Message: 3Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:58:53 +0200From: Liam Proven Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"Subject: Re: Modems and external dialers.Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:49, Stefan Skoglund wrote:>> I also hate my samsung a5 mobile - the stupid thing> doesnt have something which the two ericsson mobiles i used before (and> a nokia and i believe a samsung to) had.>> Namely a small led which was on all the time. A great thing when> you need to look for the damn things while it is dark.>> For example in the car or in bed or out in the nature inside a tent.>> Stupid little things...>> that little led usually changed colour when the battery became low.Agreed again. My old Mac mini h
In search of an ancient IEEE-754 floating point test suite
One of the projects I've been working on recently is adding floating point accelerator emulation to the SIMH 3B2/400 emulator. I _think_ I've done reasonably well, in that the simulator passes all of the accelerator diagnostics that AT&T wrote for their own product, but frankly these tests are rather cursory and don't validate much. I'd like to compile a set of IEEE-754 tests on the 3B2. Unfortunately, the only compiler I have ready access to on the 3B2 is AT&T's pre-ANSI C compiler, so not a lot of modern C is going to work. Does anyone know of a period-appropriate set of IEEE-754 tests that could be compiled on SVR3? -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA w...@loomcom.com
Re: TurboDOS for S-100, IMS or L/F Technologies
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 12:55 PM Jonathan Haddox via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I'm restoring an IMS - L/F Technologies S-100 Bus computer. I've got all > the pieces except for the Operating System. I'm hoping that someone here > may have a disk stashed away. From the literature I have read, I would > need TurboDOS version 1.40a or 1.41c from IMS or L/F Technologies. I've > seen TurboDOS 1.3 versions out in the wild from IMS, but the 1.4 version > was greatly enhanced and offered better compatibility with my specific > hardware. I'd be much obliged if anyone can help. > > Thanks, > > Jonathan > new_castle_j at yahoo > Can you detail the associated hardware (drive controller, drive model, CPU, etc.) >
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk wrote: Almost as bad as desperately looking for a fix for something, and coming across your own posting from 15 years ago with the solution :) IFF your old post had a solution! (rather than being an unresolved query) A related anecdote (that must surely happen often to ARD, Chuck, Allison, and a few others), . . . A friend of mine did hobbyist holography, with a ton of sand in a waterbed frame on stacks of tires, . . . There used to be only one REAL professional photography supplier in the area, where you could get sheet film, glass plates, etc. One time, she noticed an Eastman glass plate emulsion that she hadn't seen before, so she asked the staff about it. "Well, I personally don't know anything about it, but I hear that we have a customer who knows EVERYTHING about that stuff, and we'll get them in touch with you!" When she got home, there was a message on her answering machine, "Hi, this is George at Alpha Photo. We have a customer who wants to know about a new Eastman glass plate emulsion. Would you mind telling them what you know?" Guess what? YOU are the expert that they will put you in touch with.
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 2:13 PM ben wrote: > On 6/11/2019 2:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > > > > > There are no banner ads on ycombinator, nor on Seth's site. I suspect > > you have malware somewhere in your system or on your network. > > As froghorn leghorn once said. "That was a Joke son" ... > If you say so. - Josh
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On 6/11/2019 2:55 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: There are no banner ads on ycombinator, nor on Seth's site. I suspect you have malware somewhere in your system or on your network. As froghorn leghorn once said. "That was a Joke son" ... - Josh I'll look at that site later, as finding any kind of intersting page is becoming harder and harder as web searching is getting very sloppy. Ben.
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:48 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 6/11/2019 11:11 AM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, at 9:22 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > >> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 18:15, Seth Morabito via cctalk > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that > ancient post of mine... > >> > >> Ancient? It was on HN yesterday! > >> > >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20137134 > > > > It's not my fault they found a blog post I made in 2012 yesterday! :^) > > USE LESS BANNER ADS. > > -Seth > What I have seen a lot lately, is that you get a search hit, click on > the link > and get a "We will display NOT this page for you because ". Is that > the same for you people out there? > Ben. > > > There are no banner ads on ycombinator, nor on Seth's site. I suspect you have malware somewhere in your system or on your network. - Josh
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On 6/11/2019 11:11 AM, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote: On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, at 9:22 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 18:15, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote: Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that ancient post of mine... Ancient? It was on HN yesterday! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20137134 It's not my fault they found a blog post I made in 2012 yesterday! :^) USE LESS BANNER ADS. -Seth What I have seen a lot lately, is that you get a search hit, click on the link and get a "We will display NOT this page for you because ". Is that the same for you people out there? Ben.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
I couldn't see remoting my self more from the design. The JEDIC file is specified, the fuses are numbered why do we need the added steps. I was told the same thing, that there was no way other than to use a PAL compiler. If you really want to confuse things, try using a PALASM or such to move from positive logic to negative logic. Another use for the tristate is to make an OC output. Dwight From: Brian L. Stuart Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:44 AM To: Paul Berger; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; dwight Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk wrote: > When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made > a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the > same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was > done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots > on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back I thought I was the only one! Back when I first used a PAL, I also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers how to get that programmed into the device. It was pretty annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first. It seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was just going to turn around and turn the equations back into the matrix wiring I had just marked up. BLS
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 6/11/19 11:40 AM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > > Well in this case I have Mr Duell's schematic to go by to determine what > is input an what is output. For the 16L8 tristate is an available > output option that you would need to specify in PLD design and I believe > can be selected individually for each output. In the case of this HAL > it would seem likely that pin 11 tristates all outputs but output 0 at > least when pin 11 is low the output from all the rest is high but I did > not test for tristate as it does not matter in this case since pin 11 is > permanently tied high. That's nice; but in my case, I was sent a couple of PALs to clone without a hint of their origin. So the PAL was essentially a black box and the task was to come up with a box that behaved similarly. --Chuck
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 3:17 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/11/19 10:54 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time back... The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). I mentioned in my blog entry that I had a way of detecting this by driving the outputs through a series resistor and sensing the logic level of the pin. In other words, you've already labeled the pin as an output by exhaustively running through input combinations. What's needed is to differentiate a "driven" high level from a tristated one. By driving the outputs low through a series resistance you can determine if an output is high-impedance or not. I explained that badly, but it does work. --Chuck Well in this case I have Mr Duell's schematic to go by to determine what is input an what is output. For the 16L8 tristate is an available output option that you would need to specify in PLD design and I believe can be selected individually for each output. In the case of this HAL it would seem likely that pin 11 tristates all outputs but output 0 at least when pin 11 is low the output from all the rest is high but I did not test for tristate as it does not matter in this case since pin 11 is permanently tied high. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 6/11/19 10:54 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time > back... > > The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's > one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used > in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the > backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). I mentioned in my blog entry that I had a way of detecting this by driving the outputs through a series resistor and sensing the logic level of the pin. In other words, you've already labeled the pin as an output by exhaustively running through input combinations. What's needed is to differentiate a "driven" high level from a tristated one. By driving the outputs low through a series resistance you can determine if an output is high-impedance or not. I explained that badly, but it does work. --Chuck
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:50 PM Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > The process documented above is essentially the process I started last > night, but in my case I used a GPIO in my HP 9000-332 to cycle through > the inputs and record the output. It is very handy to have general > purpose parallel I/O for purposes like this. In this case the number of > possible states is reduced as two of the inputs are permanently tied > high. I am well on my well to developing logic equations to feed into > palasm to generate a new JEDEC file which I can then burn into a GAL and > test to see if it is correct. I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time back... The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). You'll not spot problems with those signals in a 9816 unless you have a DMA controller board in one of the DIO slots, but... -tony
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk wrote: > When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made > a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the > same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was > done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots > on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back I thought I was the only one! Back when I first used a PAL, I also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers how to get that programmed into the device. It was pretty annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first. It seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was just going to turn around and turn the equations back into the matrix wiring I had just marked up. BLS
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
> On Jun 11, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Seth Morabito via cctalk > wrote: > > It's not my fault they found a blog post I made in 2012 yesterday! :^) Almost as bad as desperately looking for a fix for something, and coming across your own posting from 15 years ago with the solution :) Ian
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, at 9:22 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 18:15, Seth Morabito via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that ancient > > post of mine... > > Ancient? It was on HN yesterday! > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20137134 It's not my fault they found a blog post I made in 2012 yesterday! :^) -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA w...@loomcom.com
TurboDOS for S-100, IMS or L/F Technologies
I'm restoring an IMS - L/F Technologies S-100 Bus computer. I've got all the pieces except for the Operating System. I'm hoping that someone here may have a disk stashed away. From the literature I have read, I would need TurboDOS version 1.40a or 1.41c from IMS or L/F Technologies. I've seen TurboDOS 1.3 versions out in the wild from IMS, but the 1.4 version was greatly enhanced and offered better compatibility with my specific hardware. I'd be much obliged if anyone can help. Thanks, Jonathan new_castle_j at yahoo
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On 06/11/2019 06:33 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: I wonder what the unlisted 20 ICs are for, and what they are? I think the 23B are microcode ROMS, and the 441 seems to be clerical error. Jon
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 at 18:15, Seth Morabito via cctalk wrote: > > Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that ancient post > of mine... Ancient? It was on HN yesterday! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20137134 -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019, at 4:33 AM, Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: > >-Original Message- > >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Liam Proven > >via cctalk > > > >Found on Hackernews but by our very own Seth Morabito... > > > >"This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be > >441 ICs. Impressive!" > > I wonder what the unlisted 20 ICs are for, and what they are? > > List totals [421]; claim is 441 ... Oops! Clearly a boneheaded mistake on my part. Time to fix that ancient post of mine... -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA w...@loomcom.com
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
I realize that most are familiar with using the equations to create the PALs but I'm a circuit person more than an equation person for circuits. When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back and add the don't care connections. You know, A*A!. I transposed them to a text file in the JEDEC format ( One needs to add on non-text character as I recall ) I then gave the file to my friend that had a PAL programmer and made the PAL. I made a simple ruler to convert dot locations to column offsets. While, Most seem to like the algebraic formulas, I find it harder to check than a schematic. I had one value that I wasn't sure about that require an experimental PAL blown, as the circuit didn't show if the bank select was 0 or 1 at reset. I've used this method on both the recreation of Jef Raskin's Swyft board and the PAL I needed for my 6532 to 6530 KIM-1 fix ( the KIM took a couple more PALs because as a human, I made some logic mistakes ). Copying a L type PAL is a little simpler but in the case of the Swyft board it was a R type PAL. Doing it from the schematic, and know what it was suppose to do was much simpler than trying every possible combination of clock and data from the pins of a PAL ( that I didn't have anyway ). Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Paul Berger via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 5:54 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On 2019-06-11 1:19 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > >> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : >> >> For each combination of inputs : >> Read the outputs >> Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) >> Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have >> changed then there's a sequential function on that input >> Check the next input >>Check the next combination of inputs > For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at > vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and > documented the process. > > FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel > port of a PC. Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive > MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of > flexibility to the process. > > Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all > combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs. If the tristate > feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference > between a tristated pin and a genuine input. > > There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as > Logic Friday. After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations > that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed. > > --Chuck Old computer work too, I used a GPIO in a HP 9000-332. Years ago I also created general purpose I/O ports for a PC using 6821 chips since they are way more flexible that the Intel 8255, but the HP 9000 coupled with RMB makes for a great environment to bang out quick programs to do things like this. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 1:19 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : For each combination of inputs : Read the outputs Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have changed then there's a sequential function on that input Check the next input Check the next combination of inputs For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and documented the process. FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel port of a PC. Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of flexibility to the process. Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs. If the tristate feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference between a tristated pin and a genuine input. There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as Logic Friday. After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed. --Chuck Old computer work too, I used a GPIO in a HP 9000-332. Years ago I also created general purpose I/O ports for a PC using 6821 chips since they are way more flexible that the Intel 8255, but the HP 9000 coupled with RMB makes for a great environment to bang out quick programs to do things like this. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 6:17 a.m., Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:19 AM To: Tony Duell via cctalk Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : For each combination of inputs : Read the outputs Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have changed then there's a sequential function on that input Check the next input Check the next combination of inputs For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and documented the process. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?329-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-12-The-Trantor-T130B-memory-PAL http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?328-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-11 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?327-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-10 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?326-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-9 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?325-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-8 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?321-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-7) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?320-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-6) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?319-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-5) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?318-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-4) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?316-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-3) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?315-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-2) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1) A nice read. When does the article/book get self-published :->? - paul The process documented above is essentially the process I started last night, but in my case I used a GPIO in my HP 9000-332 to cycle through the inputs and record the output. It is very handy to have general purpose parallel I/O for purposes like this. In this case the number of possible states is reduced as two of the inputs are permanently tied high. I am well on my well to developing logic equations to feed into palasm to generate a new JEDEC file which I can then burn into a GAL and test to see if it is correct. Paul.
RE: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
>-Original Message- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Liam Proven >via cctalk >Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 7:06 AM >To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick? > >Found on Hackernews but by our very own Seth Morabito... > >« >This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be >441 ICs. Impressive! >» > >https://loomcom.com/blog/0044_what_makes_a_pdp_11_35_tick.html > >-- >Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven I wonder what the unlisted 20 ICs are for, and what they are? List totals 221; claim is 441 ... - paul
Re: Modems and external dialers.
On Mon, 10 Jun 2019 at 22:57, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > > I share the sentiment and I guess I could give similar description > (yours was very interesting, BTW). Thank you! > If I had a privilege to own > Psion. But, when I went on for shopping, Psion was already bowing out > of the PDA market. So I bought Compaq iPAQ 3630, installed Familiar > Linux on it and hoped there would be a future when PDAs can be > bought. Hoho, I was so wrong. But while researching, I could on one > ocassion tap a bit on this excellent Psion 5mx keyboard in a shop. I > think about this keyboard to this very day. Nothing ever was better and fitted in your pocket. *Nothing*. > About displays: my ideal display was the one from iPAQ (they were also > used in other handheld PDAs of the time). It was called transflective > LCD. They are easily recognized, because the light can be permamently > turned off. "Normal" LCD has a backlight, i.e. a layer of > leds/incandescents which shine through from the back of the display > towards the user. Transflectives have special reflective layer in the > back, and a diode on a side. The external light reflects and shines > back through the crystal layer. Sorry for laymanish description, but I > hope I have got it right. > > Anyway, such display looked best in full sun. The one in 3630 could > display 4096 colors (with spectrum slightly bent towards pinky). Later > iPAQ models could do 65k colors (again slightly bent, but this time > much less visible). I used mine PDA as a proto ebook reader, lots of > html and pdb material read outdoors. The same kind of LCD was to be > found in many phones. Fascinating. I did not know transreflective LCDs were in PDAs. I only knew of them from the One Laptop Per Child project. There was an attempt to "productize" them as Pixel Qi but it died: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_Qi > For whatever reason, morons decided the shiny LCD should be next best > thing. And transflective got lost. Just like this. Nada. Appears like > the very meaning of "mobile" changed during last twenty years - first > it meant "outdoors" and now it means "from one couch to another, > indoors". A tragic loss for all of us. Triple-layer transmissive LCDs are a terrible bodge of a technology, and it is only because they are so bad that things like OLED look like good alternatives. But since it is all that anyone knows now, we think they are great. > Twenty years ago people using such tech were easily falling into > "elite users" of some kind. Either because of earnings or because they > had nontrivial needs and were decided to satisfy them - and the > machines reflected this. Not so with todays users, and again, machines > reflect this. Yes, true. > I am rather baffled whenever I read Psion had milion users and yet > this was not enough for them. Plenty of people would consider > themselves lucky if their books, cars or games were bought by this > many. The attitude of Psion managers is totally disgusting for me, > unless I had not taken something into account. Agreed. This is something Planet Computers understands and I hope that it continues to. > Perhaps niche technical products should be sold by those who > understand niche markets. I imagine that if I came to manager of niche > recording label and suggested he should get rid of musicians and start > recording some generic crap outsourced from other side of the world to > "reduce costs" I guess I would fly out the window with his boot in my > arse. In contrast, I imagine that coming with similar proposition to > manager of huge (so called) tech firm I would get a bl**job and some > of his shares. But maybe I am romantic. :-D Excellent comparison! -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick?
Found on Hackernews but by our very own Seth Morabito... « This is what makes a PDP-11/35 or PDP-11/40 tick. It turns out to be 441 ICs. Impressive! » https://loomcom.com/blog/0044_what_makes_a_pdp_11_35_tick.html -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
RE: HP9816 PAL16L8
>-Original Message- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis >via cctalk >Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:19 AM >To: Tony Duell via cctalk >Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 > >On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > >> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : >> >> For each combination of inputs : >>Read the outputs >> Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) >> Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have >> changed then there's a sequential function on that input >> Check the next input >> Check the next combination of inputs > >For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at >vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and >documented the process. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?329-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-12-The-Trantor-T130B-memory-PAL http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?328-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-11 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?327-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-10 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?326-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-9 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?325-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-8 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?321-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-7) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?320-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-6) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?319-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-5) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?318-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-4) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?316-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-3) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?315-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-2) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1) A nice read. When does the article/book get self-published :->? - paul
