Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

One aspect of the RJ21 coding that's always puzzled me was the ordering
of the colors.

25 pairs, where

White Red Black Yellow Violet for each "bank" and within each bank
Blue Orange Green Brown Gray

So the first pair would be White-Blue
and the last (25th) would be Violet-Gray

Does anyone know where the odd ordering (contrary to electronics color
code) originated?

--Chuck

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 09/18/2019 09:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin 
miniature ribbon

connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!


On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors.  I'm sure 
that that's

also a misnomer.


I still believe that that is the correct name.
I've always assumed that that was Amphenol's name for that 
line of connector when they invented it.  I also assumed 
that "blue ribbon" was a reference to the blue first-prize 
ribbons at county fair type contests.


Although a friend claimed that that name was 
unintentional, since instead of pins, it uses "ribbon 
contacts", hence also "micro ribbon connector". and many 
of them had a BLUE plastic center section.


The original Amphenol connector was about 3 X the contact 
spacing of the micro-blue ribbon
connector, but basically the same design.  They used Diallyl 
pthalate insulators.  I don't know if these are just always 
dyed blue, or the chemical makeup makes them blue, but it is 
a deep blue color.  So, that's where the blue in the name 
comes from.  The contacts are punched out of a ribbon of 
gold-plated beryllium copper, so that's where the ribbon in 
the name comes from.


Jon

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 09/18/2019 08:27 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Oh, my Gosh!  the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone 
system.  If you are OLD enough, remember the phones with 
5 line select buttons and a red hold button below the 
rotary dial?  That is what that unit supports, the 565 
phone.


Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature 
ribbon connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!



Nope, AMP mini-blue ribbon.

Jon

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon
connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!


On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors.  I'm sure that that's
also a misnomer.


I still believe that that is the correct name.
I've always assumed that that was Amphenol's name for that line of 
connector when they invented it.  I also assumed that "blue ribbon" was a 
reference to the blue first-prize ribbons at county fair type contests.


Although a friend claimed that that name was unintentional, since instead 
of pins, it uses "ribbon contacts", hence also "micro ribbon connector". 
and many of them had a BLUE plastic center section.

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 9/18/19 6:27 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon
> connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!

We used to call them "blue ribbon" connectors.  I'm sure that that's
also a misnomer.

--Chuck

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Nigel Johnson via cctalk]

Alleluia! A kindred soul!  I have spent the latter half of my life 
trying to tell people that the Centronics Data Computer Co of Hudson NJ 
NEVER used a 50-pin connector!  The Amp 57-10360 would have been a 
57-10500 if they had :-)


cheers,

Nigel


On 18/09/2019 21:27, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Oh, my Gosh!  the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.  If you are 
OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red 
hold button below the rotary dial?  That is what that unit supports, 
the 565 phone.


Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon 
connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!


 


--
Nigel Johnson
MSc., MIEEE
VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU

Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!


You can reach me by voice on Skype:  TILBURY2591

If time travel ever will be possible, it already is. Ask me again yesterday

This e-mail is not and cannot, by its nature, be confidential. En route from me 
to you, it will pass across the public Internet, easily readable by any number 
of system administrators along the way.
   Nigel Johnson 


Please consider the environment when deciding if you really need to print this message

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Frank McConnell via cctalk]

On Sep 18, 2019, at 11:32, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> 
> I know some peeps here are phone pholks…..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> One is an old “bell system western electric”. It seems to have a few 66 
> blocks just under the cover, a power supply, and some kind of modules that 
> plug in.

I think you might have a 1A2 key system there (this based on the 400Ds up top). 
 Kind of want but do not need.  I see other (and closer) interest has been 
expressed and that is good.

> The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if 
> anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, seems 
> to be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call Pilot 100.

That is why you want the 1A2.  It looks substantial hanging on the wall with 
those 25-pair cables to the key sets.  It feels substantial while you’re 
working to get it hung on the wall.  And it whirs and clicks in ways that the 
fully electronic key systems and PBXs don’t.  

-Frank McConnell

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 9/18/19 6:16 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
 
> Oh, my Gosh!  the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.  If you are
> OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red
> hold button below the rotary dial?  That is what that unit supports, the
> 565 phone.

You have to be OLD to have used these?  Golly, maybe I really am OLD.

There were touch-tone later versions also.  Hooked to a KSU with the
wonderful 50 wire cable.

I remember that our (no dial at all) phone number was Sheffield 2118-W.
(Party line, don'tcha know).

My grandmother's was 46 (no exchange or dial; rural phone company).

Anyone collect the old Rolm (IBM) PBX stuff?

--Chuck

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Oh, my Gosh!  the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.  If you are OLD 
enough, remember the phones with 5 line select buttons and a red hold button 
below the rotary dial?  That is what that unit supports, the 565 phone.


Please don't let anybody call the 25 pair 50-pin miniature ribbon 
connector (RJ21),  "Centronics"!

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 09/18/2019 01:32 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:

I know some peeps here are phone pholks…..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff 


  



Oh, my Gosh!  the first 3 pics are of a KTU phone system.  
If you are OLD enough, remember the phones with 5 line 
select buttons and a red hold button below the rotary dial?  
That is what that unit supports, the 565 phone.


Jon

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Kevin Monceaux

> I'm not sure what it is about phone systems. ... I don't know why I'm
> doing this. 

Oh, and the rest of us have a real use/need for old, slow, small (by modern
standards) systems that use a ton of power? :-)

Noel

Re: KiCad pcb file

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

We have to clean it up but we've got the pattern for a quad height
prototype board. I can share the outline and edge connectors once it's 100%
verified.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 7:54 PM David Bridgham via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 9/17/19 15:00, Ed Groenenberg via cctalk wrote:
> > Hello.
> >
> > I'm looking for a PCB layout file / template of a 2 slot Unibus card,
> > which I want to use in KiCad.
> >
> > Can someone help me with this?
>
>
> Here's a KiCad template for a double-height QBUS card.  I haven't
> verified it or cleaned it up but it ought to make a good starting point
> and deleting the QBUS bits will be easy.  Eventually I'll need to do a
> quad-height Unibus card too.
>
> http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-template.tar.gz
>
> If you're building your own DEC boards, this is the best dimensional
> diagram I've come across; I pulled it out of a uVAX manual.  The one bug
> I've found in it is the "1.00±.010" in the corner where the edge fingers
> start.  I think it's supposed to be "0.100±.010" but I'd double-check
> that against other diagrams or measure a real board.
>
> http://pdp10.froghouse.org/qsic/qbus-dimensions.pdf
>
>
>

Re: DEC RP04 service manual available

[P Gebhardt via cctalk]

Hi Noel,
I am very glad that you're the one who put hands on it. I planned to get it 
with the same intention to scan it for bitsavers, but then I got distracted and 
missed it!

Best regards,
Pierre

-
http://www.digitalheritage.de






Am Mittwoch, 18. September 2019, 20:33:44 MESZ hat Noel Chiappa via cctalk 
 Folgendes geschrieben: 





So I have just acquired a copy of the service manual for the RP04 drive (ISS
model 733). Does anyone have an immediate need to look at this? If so, I can
put it on the top of the 'to scan' stack.

    Noel

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Kevin Monceaux via cctalk]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 01:32:21PM -0500, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
 
> I know zilch about phone systems, and don’t want to know anything about
> phone systems  They were on the wall of a warehouse telco closet that my
> client just rented and we need the space on the dmarc wall for a rack. If
> someone wants them, and is willing to pay ship/pack (ups) from 63146 let
> me know within 2 days or they go to the skip.

I sent a short replied off list to express interest.  I'm not sure what it
is about phone systems.

I've had a fascination with them for years, especially PBX type systems.
I've only recently started setting up a home PBX style phone system.  At the
moment I have a couple of Cisco IP phones and a few analog phones from the
1930's and 1940's working using Cisco CME on a 3845 router as a phone
controller.  I'm about to take a stab at punching down a 25 pair cable on a
66 block to connect to a Cisco VG224 voice gateway, which would enable me to
connect 24 analog extensions to my current system.  I don't know why I'm
doing this.  I live alone.  I don't need to be able to call from one room to
another in my house.

I've been eyeing 1A2 key systems and Nortel PBX systems for a while, not to
mention Mitel, Avaya Definity, and more.




-- 

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

Re: phone systems, old and less-old

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if 
anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, 
seems to be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call 
Pilot 100.


Call Pilot is an automated call routing plus voicemail system (thanks 
google) that is likely tied to the ICS.


ICS should be the PBX.

- Ethan

DEC RP04 service manual available

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

So I have just acquired a copy of the service manual for the RP04 drive (ISS
model 733). Does anyone have an immediate need to look at this? If so, I can
put it on the top of the 'to scan' stack.

Noel

phone systems, old and less-old

[jwest--- via cctalk]

I know some peeps here are phone pholks…..See www.ezwind.net/phonestuff 
 

 

One is an old “bell system western electric”. It seems to have a few 66 blocks 
just under the cover, a power supply, and some kind of modules that plug in.

 

The other is a Nortel Networks ICS. It feels way too light, not sure if 
anything is in it. There is another piece of Nortel gear on the wall, seems to 
be some kind of wireless? thingy called Nortel Networks Call Pilot 100.

 

I know zilch about phone systems, and don’t want to know anything about phone 
systems  They were on the wall of a warehouse telco closet that my client just 
rented and we need the space on the dmarc wall for a rack. If someone wants 
them, and is willing to pay ship/pack (ups) from 63146 let me know within 2 
days or they go to the skip.

 

J

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:59 AM, Chris Elmquist  wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
>>>  wrote:
> ...
 Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written 
 up in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
 
 One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as 
 Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a 
 paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is 
 message padding.
 
 The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
 listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
 timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
 others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top 
 cryptographers.)
 
 It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security 
 mechanisms.
>>> 
>>> ... Wow.
>>> 
>>> *Wow.*
>>> 
>>> Thanks for those!
>> 
>> In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being 
>> able to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking 
>> at the AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was 
>> relatively low fidelity, but yikes!
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking 
> 

Cool!

Yea, I had to make a trip to a “secure facility” once and there were entire 
“tempest” rooms with conditioned power and no external communications 
equipment.  The room itself (think *large*) was a faraday cage with a vault 
door that was kept closed when ever there was sensitive stuff going on.  Since 
I didn’t have a security clearance, the door was open and everywhere I went 
there were red lights in the rooms/halls that I was in that would be on to 
indicate that no sensitive information should be discussed (makes you feel 
really wanted).  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Chris Elmquist via cctalk]

On Wednesday (09/18/2019 at 09:19AM -0700), Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
> >  wrote:
> >>> ...
> >> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written 
> >> up in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
> >> 
> >> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as 
> >> Skype, by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a 
> >> paper named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is 
> >> message padding.
> >> 
> >> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
> >> listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
> >> timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
> >> others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top 
> >> cryptographers.)
> >> 
> >> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security 
> >> mechanisms.
> > 
> > ... Wow.
> > 
> > *Wow.*
> > 
> > Thanks for those!
> 
> In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able 
> to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the 
> AC (e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was relatively 
> low fidelity, but yikes!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Eck_phreaking

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 12:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
>  wrote:
>>> ...
>> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up 
>> in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
>> 
>> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, 
>> by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a paper 
>> named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is message 
>> padding.
>> 
>> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by 
>> listening to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is 
>> timing tweaks in the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among 
>> others, Adi Shamir, the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.)
>> 
>> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms.
> 
> ... Wow.
> 
> *Wow.*
> 
> Thanks for those!

In the deep dark days of yore, I recall an actual demonstration of being able 
to read/replicate the contents of the screen (CRT) of a PC by looking at the AC 
(e.g. mains) that the PC was plugged into.  Admittedly it was relatively low 
fidelity, but yikes!

TTFN - Guy

Re: [Simh] Fwd: VAX + Spectre

[Liam Proven via cctalk]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 02:19, Paul Koning via cctalk
 wrote:
> > ...
> Speaking of timing, that reminds me of two amazing security holes written up 
> in the past few years.  Nothing to do with the Spectre etc. issue.
>
> One is the recovery of speech from an encrypted VoIP channel such as Skype, 
> by looking at the sizes of the encrypted data blocks.  (Look for a paper 
> named "Hookt on fon-iks" by White et al.)  The fix for this is message 
> padding.
>
> The other is the recovery of the RSA private key in a smartphone by listening 
> to the sound it makes while decrypting.  The fix for this is timing tweaks in 
> the decryption inner loop.  (Look for a paper by, among others, Adi Shamir, 
> the S in RSA and one of the world's top cryptographers.)
>
> It's pretty amazing what ways people find to break into security mechanisms.

... Wow.

*Wow.*

Thanks for those!

-- 
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053