[cctalk] Re: Random items on Pascal #3

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/10/24 16:37, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > I was told that some of the many locally applied patches were done by > writes to array elements with negative subscripts. > CDC 6000 (the one with PPUs) OS (SCOPE, KRNONOS, MACE and NOS) used a single PPU that, among other things, monitored the

[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/10/24 14:44, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: > C didn't enter my world until I started running FreeBSD in the late 90's > where it was essentially part of the OS. I remember paying $600 bucks AUD > for a Borland C compiler running under Windows, but the whole concept of > writing a simple

[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/10/24 14:03, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 1:36 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > I developed quite a bit and for many years with Microsoft C v6.0 under DOS > and it was not bad. The compiler was decently fast and once 486s and then > Pentiums became

[cctalk] Re: Programming languages; Was: DOS p-System Pascal

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
While doing my customary "whatever happened to" sweep, I ran across this paper of Jules Schwartz (he of JOVIAL) A refreshingly frank evaluation from the author from 1978. http://jovial.com/documents/p203-schwartz-jovial.pdf (Tidbit: The "J" in JOVIAL does stand for "Jules'", but was not of his

[cctalk] Re: DOS p-System Pascal: (Was: Saga of CP/M)

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
There have been some minor skirmishes in the MCU world over what language should be used when programming. C/C++ is very much top dog, probably because the development suites are written for that. There's a small group that advocates Python; and some say that Ada is best. But they represent a

[cctalk] Re: Random items on Pascal #3

2024-05-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/10/24 06:44, Paul Koning wrote: > > As for "language to the machine" that's pretty much unheard of. While there > certainly are languages that only were seen on one or a few machines or > architectures -- SYMPL, CYBIL, BLISS, TUTOR -- it isn't because that was the > intent of those

[cctalk] Re: GEM95 cable

2024-05-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/9/24 18:16, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > > Thanks Chuck. Makes sense. I am sorting cables (fun) and I was unsure > about this one. Go on to Amazon and search for "cable RJ45 DB25" The things are apparently still in use. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: GEM95 cable

2024-05-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/9/24 17:50, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > I have a cable with two heads on one end and a rj45 phone connector on the > other end. On the two-headed side is a 25-pin ( serial female RS232 ?) and > 9-pin (serial female RS232 ?) > > The 25 pin adapter has a GEM95 sticker on it. > > What was

[cctalk] Re: Random items on Pascal #3

2024-05-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/9/24 16:30, Michael Thompson wrote: > I have a source code tape for Pascal on a CDC 6600 from CDC in France. > I am not sure which version it is. Broadly speaking, there were only three major CDC versions; the 1972 original, the 1975 rewrite, and the (I think) 1980s version. There were

[cctalk] Re: Random items on Pascal #3

2024-05-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/9/24 15:10, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >>> Turbo-Pascal was quite popular.  At the annnouncement of it (West >>> Coast Computer Faire), Phillipe Kahn (Borland) was so inundated with >>> "yeah, but what about C?" questions, that by the end of the first >>> day, "Turbo C is coming soon" > >

[cctalk] Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnitizitation [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks]

2024-05-08 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/8/24 11:54, John Maxwell via cctalk wrote: > I recall an ad for a 'double-helix, special' 6-foot power cord going for $500 > (or more) claiming that it would make your main power amplifier sound better > with better mains power - that's about the time I started calling them > "audio-fools"

[cctalk] Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnitizitation [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks]

2024-05-07 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/7/24 15:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > How difficult is it to measure and compare "With/Without" signals? > If you peruse the old Bob Pease articles on "Electronic Design" magazine, I believe more than once, he alluded to a proposed "blind test"--two boxes; one filled with the latest

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

2024-05-07 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/7/24 10:31, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > >> On May 7, 2024, at 1:20 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk >> wrote: >> ... >> Thus proving to >> be complete horseshit all the educators that said if you want to get into a >> computer career you must be good at math. > > Indeed. That is, or

[cctalk] Re: FWIW CD & DVD demagnitizitation [was: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks]

2024-05-07 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
The thing that many audiophiles fail to grasp is that there's a difference between listening and hearing. The fact is that I'm just as content listening to a recording of an old scratchy 78 with, say, Albert Schweitzer (yes, that guy) playing Bach on organ as the latest wunderkind flogging at the

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

2024-05-06 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/6/24 21:16, Don R wrote: > Maybe I need one of these power cords for my Monroe-Litton 1830 aka > Compucorp 485. It might make the calculations more precise? ;) That's the economy version. If you're *really* serious, you'll grab this one (on sale: 6% off!):

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

2024-05-06 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/6/24 20:25, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134706639303 > > include a basic feature for rewinding rental DVDs before returning them. > Of course, you need a pure silver AC cable for those: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115970049389 --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

2024-05-06 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/6/24 15:12, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Radio Shack used to sell a "Bulk Tape Eraser".  I gave mine to the college. > Those are on eBay, and even Amazon. > I've had one of those for years. Resembles a kitchen Mixmaster without the beaters. The problem is that it has a limited working

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

2024-05-06 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/6/24 11:28, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of a mag tape > demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know what i mean) and it > had no effect at all. I could still read them fine in my pc. I surmised that > the magnetic

[cctalk] Re: 5,34 Petaflop System Cheyenne

2024-05-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/3/24 17:41, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I wonder if some intermediary is buying it for a country that cannot > legally purchase something like that from the USA. > > I'm not normally a conspiracy guy but why would any normal company pay > half a million dollars for something that could be

[cctalk] Re: Saga of CP/M

2024-05-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/3/24 18:30, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > PL/M (think "PL/1") was a high level programming language for > microprocessors. Notable that a subset of PL/I was marketed for CP/M around 1981 or so. I've heard from some folks that Gary developed ISIS for Intel. That is definitely not true. It

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/3/24 17:48, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: I seem to recall that MCBA's business applications were originally coded in DG BASIC. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/3/24 11:05, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > "Remembering his conversation at NCC with Marc McDonald about File Allocation > Tables in his unfinished, large, and never-released 8-bit MIDAS operating > system, Paterson decided that the FAT scheme was a better way to handle disk > information

[cctalk] Re: 5,34 Petaflop System Cheyenne

2024-05-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/3/24 08:07, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: >> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/04/us-government-auctions-5-34-petaflop-cheyenne-supercomputer/ 2.3-GHz Intel Xeon E5-2697v4 processors, I think that's a close relative to what I'm running on the X99 desktop... --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/2/24 13:59, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: > There's also Geoff Graham's BASIC for the Pi Pico. > > https://geoffg.net/picomite.html Then there's the 8042 MCU-embedded BASIC, the BASIC stamp, etc. I have a little MicroPy board here that's fun to play with. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Thinking back over the last couple of months, I realize that most of my recent programming has been in Linux Bash scripts. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
I'll add a postscript with my reaction upon seeing my first Microsoft Visual BASIC program code: "What the hell is this? It's not BASIC!" --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

2024-05-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/2/24 07:02, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > My guess is that the languages you use routinely are the ones that work best, > and which languages those are depends on where you work and on what projects. > For example, I don't *like* C (I call it a "feebly typed language") and C++ > not

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-02 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/1/24 23:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > I recall IITRAN for the IBM 7044, and am i correct that there was an IITRAN > for the Univac 1108, which was significantly different? I believe that IITRAN was moved from the 7040 to a 360/40 for a few years, then to an Univac 1108. All

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Am I the only one on this list who designed and implemented a business BASIC? (I did have two programmers to work with me. Did it in about 4 months). Multiuser on an 8085; later versions were re-hosted on Xenix.

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

2024-05-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/1/24 16:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > APL was incredible.  I was amazed.  I was immediately able to do a few > simple things that were useful for my boss and myself, and writing > simple programs within hours.  Its matrix arithmetic was awesome. APL > typeball on a selectric terminal at

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 5/1/24 16:37, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 4:36 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > >> To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive >> programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, IITRAN and a host of others, >>

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

2024-05-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
To be sure, BASIC was hardly unique in terms of the 1960s interactive programming languages. We had JOSS, PILOT, IITRAN and a host of others, based on FORTRAN-ish syntax. not to forget APL, which was a thing apart. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

2024-04-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/27/24 19:09, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > How many know that AAM is a two byte instruction, with te second byte > beint 0Ah? > Changing the second byte to 8 gave division by 8, etc. Argh! I said earlier that the NEC V20 assumed that the value of the second byte of AAM was always 0x0a.

[cctalk] Re: PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

2024-04-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/27/24 19:09, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > How many know that AAM is a two byte instruction, with the second byte > being 0Ah? > Changing the second byte to 8 gave division by 8, etc. Only for sure on Intel x86 processors. I believe that the NEC V20 assumes that the second byte is 0x0a

[cctalk] Re: PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

2024-04-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/27/24 18:46, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 4/27/24 17:02, ben via cctalk wrote: >> Did any one need REAL BCD math like the Big Boys had? >> >> > No, this is a fallacy.  Binary arithmetic is as "accurate" as decimal.  > Handling VERY large numbers in floating point loses some precision, but

[cctalk] Re: OFF TOPIC: Doctor Who

2024-04-24 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/24/24 15:32, ben via cctalk wrote: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJeu3LCo-6A > Dr who ads for prime. I think old Dr. Who shows are also on Pluto TV. --Chuck (not a fan)

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-24 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/24/24 13:10, David Brownlee via cctalk wrote: > Typically the second processor would run as primary, using the > original 6502 to handle input, display and I/O (and on 32016 you > *really* wanted someone else to deal with anything time critical like > interrupts :) Thats the way we did it

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-24 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/24/24 11:34, Fred Cisin wrote: >>>> Did the Dimension 68000 (a multi-processor machine) have Z80 and 6502? > > On Tue, 23 Apr 2024, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> Couldn't Bill Godbout's CPU-68K board co-exist with other CPU boards? > > Did he, or anybody els

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-24 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/24/24 10:54, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote: > The Otrona Attache 8:16 had a Z80A and an 8086 on a daughter card. Of course, Godbout offered the S100 85/88 board in the same vein. --CHuck

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-24 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/23/24 21:06, ben via cctalk wrote: >> > I remember Bill Godbout's PACE ads. Now I got the $$$ and time I can't > find any chips. National was handing the chips with manuals out for free at on WESCON--I got mine there, built up an S100 board with all of the interface logic (I think the PACE

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-23 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/23/24 17:18, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > > On 4/23/2024 8:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: >> Did the Dimension 68000 (a multi-processor machine) have Z80 and 6502? Couldn't Bill Godbout's CPU-68K board co-exist with other CPU boards? --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 20:36, Chris Elmquist wrote: > Hey, I did that on Sunday afternoons on the Star-100 with Lincoln and his son > PD when I was in 8th grade. I never became a manager though :-) > > Chris Trying to remember, was the star the same as the 6000 as far as wiring? That is, twisted pair and

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 17:35, Paul Koning wrote: > What about the coincidence that a lot of today's logic runs on 3.3 volts, > just about the same as the first generation of IC logic (RTL). I think I still have some survivors from the Motorola HEP mwRTL kit. TO-100, I think. RTL was pretty cool--slow,

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 14:34, dwight via cctalk wrote: > For those that don't know what a UV(UX)201 was, it was most commonly used for > audio amplification in early battery powered radios. These used a lot of > filament current, not like later miniature tubes. > They had a UV(UX)200 tube for RF detections

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 14:04, Paul Koning wrote: > I never had my hands on a 6600, only a 6400 which is a single unit machine. > So I had to do some thinking to understand why someone would do a register > transfer with L (shift operation) rather than B (boolean operation) when I > first saw that in my

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 13:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > In COMPASS: > > MORE SA1 A1+B2 (B2 = 2) > SA2 A2+B2 > BX6 X1 > LX7 X2 > SB3 B3-2 > SA6 A6+B2 > SA7 A7+B2 > PL b3,MORE My recollection is that putting the stores

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 13:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > In COMPASS: > > MORE SA1 A1+B2 (B2 = 2) > SA2 A2+B2 > BX6 X1 > LX7 X2 > SB3 B3-2 > SA6 A6+B2 > SA7 A7+B2 > PL b3,MORE

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 13:02, Wayne S wrote: > I read somewhere that the cable lengths were expressly engineered to provide > that signals arrived to chips at nearly the same time so as to reduce chip > “wait” times and provide more speed. That certainly was true for the 6600. My unit manager, fresh out

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 12:31, ben via cctalk wrote: > > > Classic cpu designs like the PDP-1, might be better called RISC. > Back then you matched the cpu word length to data you were using. > 40 bits made a lot of sense for real computing, even if you > had no RAM memory at the time, just drum. I'd call

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 11:46, Paul Koning wrote: > > Probably not. Cycle accurate simulation is very hard. It's only rarely been > done for any CPU, and if done it tends to be incredibly slow. I remember > once using a MIPS cycle-accurate simulator (for the SB-1, the core inside the > SB-1250, later

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 11:09, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > Following along this line of thought but also in regards all our > other small CPUs > > Would it not be possible to use something like a Blue Pill to make > a small board (small enough to actually fit in the CPU socket) that > emulated

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
A bit of a postscript: The ALU on the 8085 according to Ken is 8 bits wide. https://www.righto.com/2013/01/inside-alu-of-8085-microprocessor.html --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 09:54, Lamar Owen via cctalk wrote: > On 4/22/24 12:18, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> I don't know if this applies to the Z80, but on the 8080, 16-bit >> increment/decrement is handled by a separate increment block (also used >> to advance the P-counter

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

2024-04-22 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/22/24 08:36, Lamar Owen via cctalk wrote: > Die real estate forced the design to do without a full 8-bit ALU. When > you have a 4-bit ALU, and you are doing 16-bit math, you will need 4 > cycles through the ALU. I don't know if this applies to the Z80, but on the 8080, 16-bit

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-21 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/21/24 17:44, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2024-04-21 5:26 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> On 4/21/24 12:11, ben via cctalk wrote: >>> I keep finding I still need 74XX just for having 10 TTL loads, >>> and 74LSXX just does not have the power. >>

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-21 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/21/24 12:11, ben via cctalk wrote: > I keep finding I still need 74XX just for having 10 TTL loads, > and 74LSXX just does not have the power. Ever try BiCMOS chips? IIRC, the 74ABTxxx will drive loads of up to 60 ma, far in excess of old 74xx parts. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-21 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/21/24 09:37, Mike Katz wrote: > Even the 6809 could push up to 8 registers (up to 10 bytes) at once on > one of two stacks in a single two byte instruction. The 6809 was introduced the same year as the 8086. The 80186, introduced in 1982, did have the "PUSHA POPA" instructions and was

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-21 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/21/24 07:45, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > One of the biggest features of the Z-80, the extra register set, was > rarely used in open source software in order to maintain compatibility > with the 8080. My understanding of the extra (partial) set of registers on the Z80 was that they were

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-20 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/20/24 01:37, Peter Corlett via cctalk wrote: > There's this thing called "inflation", which does tend to become somewhat > significant after four decades. > > In the mid-80s, a pint of beer cost about 70 pence. I've escaped that > benighted island, but according to friends who were not so

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-19 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/19/24 19:39, ben via cctalk wrote: > There still are RADIO SHACK 8080A's still on ebay, with @RARE@ prices. > NO thank you, z80's are the way to go. I found 8085 generally easier to work with, but that's just me. > Now is a good time to stock up for any z80 projects > or repair, while they

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-19 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/19/24 11:55, Peter Schow via cctalk wrote: > > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Littelfuse_PCN_Z84C00.pdf > I should add parenthetically that in my wildest fevered dreams did I ever think that Zilog would be a division of Littlefuse--even after the Exxon debacle. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)

2024-04-19 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/19/24 11:55, Peter Schow via cctalk wrote: > In case you missed it, Zilog has issued a Last Buy notification for the Z80: > > https://www.mouser.com/PCN/Littelfuse_PCN_Z84C00.pdf > > Looks like Mouser and Digikey still have decent inventory of them. There should still be a reliable supply

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-18 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/18/24 14:01, paul.kimpel--- via cctalk wrote: > The tape for the Burroughs 220 drives was not metallic. It was 3/4-inch wide, > and I think a Mylar sandwich. It could be spliced much the same way you would > have spliced quarter-inch reel-to-reel audio tape back in the day. > The Datamatic

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

2024-04-15 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Don't know if it's germane, but the CDC STAR-100 (Cyber 200 series) MCU used a small drum. 70s-80s. Don't recall if the stations did also. There was the "STAR Drum" blue sky that was part of the boilerplate in proposals at the time. STAR had a 512-bit wide data channel reserved for a paging

[cctalk] Re: Other input devices.

2024-04-13 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/13/24 11:22, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: >>> On Apr 12, 2024, at 9:55 PM, ben via cctalk >> wrote: >>> >>> Did any one ever use a keyboard to magtape as input device? >> >> My wife did, sort of: for a while she worked with IBM MT/ST word >> processors. Those were very early word

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-13 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/13/24 10:20, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > PLATO was the system where a whole lot of early games first appeared, > especially multi-player games. Among them were any number of variations of > "Star Trek" inspired ones. While you couldn't refresh a screen full of space > ships in

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/12/24 14:27, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 2024-04-12 at 16:13 -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> Not all that fast, well, it depends on what you're comparing with. >> Given tube logic with cycle times measures in microseconds, quite >> possibly serial rather than parallel

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/12/24 14:54, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_IBM_products for genuine ibm devices. > > Calcomp (and others?) had automated tape libraries for reel to reel taps. > The cartridge tape library that staged onto 3350s (and later 3380s?) The

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/12/24 12:04, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > I remember a concept for a very fast magnetic storage system that didn't > become a product, as far as I know. The scheme was to build a large array of > heads, using IC-manufacturing type techniques, and mount that array in > contact or

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/12/24 11:10, Tom Gardner via cctalk wrote: problems too and in the end I'm told it was a rather successful product. > > NCR CRAM (Card Random Access Memory) truly considered magnetic cards as the > media, see > https://www.computerhistory.org/brochures/m-p/national-cash-register-company >

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

2024-04-12 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/12/24 09:45, Christian Kennedy via cctalk wrote: > > On 4/12/24 05:31, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote > > [snip] >> Yes.  See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_2321_Data_Cell .  By >> the standards of the time it was an unusually high capacity storage >> device, way faster than a room

[cctalk] Re: 5150 mobo?

2024-04-11 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/11/24 11:01, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Then, there was the "64-256KB" motherboard.  It had one row of 4164s > soldered in, and three rows of sockets.  Populating those with 4164s > gave you 256K of RAM.  BUT, there was an empty socket on the board, that > you could populate; I don't know

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/10/24 10:20, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > OK, never worked on one, I did actually see one in a tour once. So, > there's a lot I don't know about the /20.  Thanks for the correction. In point of fact, given the constraints posed by the small register file and lack of instructions, the

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/10/24 08:17, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > The 360/20 had only halfword instructions, no float, no char strings.  > But, main storage was 16 bits wide. > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "char strings", but SS instructions MVC, MVN, MVZ, CLC, ED, TR were in the set, (but not, say, TRT,

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/10/24 08:11, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 4/10/24 00:21, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: >> On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote: >>> >> What model of a 360?  8K sounds a lot like a Model 20, which the purists >> may not consider to be a "real"

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/9/24 23:51, Van Snyder via cctalk wrote: > I don't remember whether it was one of the docents at Haus zur > Geschichte der IBM Datenverarbeitung at Sindelfingen, or at the > Computer History Museum at Mountain View, who told me that IBM was > developing a machine to be designated 1480, as

[cctalk] Re: IBM 360

2024-04-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/9/24 22:03, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2024-04-09 8:53 p.m., Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: >> I had not realized the IBM 360 was 60 yrs. old this month. I worked on >> such >> a computer in the late 60s in Toronto. What one could do with 8 Kbytes of >> ram was remarkable! >> >> Happy

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

2024-04-04 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/4/24 09:54, CAREY SCHUG wrote: > my syquests say 135 mb, though IIRC that must be raw, because useable was a > more even number, like 125mb, which the formatting program agreed with. I > made it my c: drive on my I386 pc so I could switch operating systems before > virtualization. I was

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

2024-04-04 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/4/24 09:27, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > > Was there any other kind? > > Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac.  It says 88M > on the front. Zip, Jazall Iomega. The Zips were 100MB, 250MB and 750MB. The Jaz was 1 GB and 2 GB, if memory serves. The 88M sounds

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

2024-04-04 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/4/24 08:05, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > One more list before I give up. > > Anybody interested in Iomega drive? > > I have: >     2 - 90 Pro >     2 - 150 Multidisk > and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet. > > To go along with them I have: >

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

2024-04-03 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 4/3/24 09:01, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I still have a TEK 475A (with the DMM4 on top) and a TEK 11043A > mainframe scope. I still occasionally haul out my 465A. If I got rid of it, I'd have to figure out what to do with the scope cart... --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes

2024-04-01 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Well, if you're after an EMP-tolerant oscilloscope, there's always the mirror-galvanometer + rotating mirror variety. Precedes the development of the CRT by quite a bit. Runs fine with clockwork. It's amazing what can be done with simple electrics and mechanics. Anyone remember using the

[cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines

2024-03-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Back in the day (early 90s, IIRC), there was a package called "SyDupe" from modesty-forbids. It could use up to 3 diskette controllers, each with up to 4 drives (grand total 3). Simultaneously copying three disks, sensing disk changes, so no keyboard interaction aside from startup. Stick a disk

[cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines

2024-03-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Just curious--how many old Formasters are still in operation? --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: recreating old computers [was: Paper tape in casettes...]

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 18:34, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > And the 1620 does addition and multiplication by table lookup. That was only the CADET; the Model II had the math hardcoded. There was an octal arithmetic option for the Model II, so it could do binary math of a sort. Spent lots of fun hours

[cctalk] Re: emulating floppies [was: Paper tape in casettes...]

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 15:43, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > I know you do this for a living and are good at it. Most of us don’t do it as > a living but have piles of floppies that we want to recover cheaply using an > existing method. Grease, cat and other wezels, are fine but you have to do > more work

[cctalk] Re: applesauce vs western digital emulator

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 14:50, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: > but still only floppy speeds. maybe they have software mods for larger > capacity, but > still only floppy speeds. emulate the western digital chip and go as fast as > the > original machine can handle it. There are inexpensive floppy

[cctalk] Re: Paper tape in casettes...

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 14:42, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > Take a look at the Applesauce. > It hooks up to a lot of different floppy drives and records and decodes the > flux. > Version2 of the hardware is being sourced and should be available in a few > months. > Good grief, there are more of these

[cctalk] Re: recreating old computers [was: Paper tape in casettes...]

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 14:09, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > Suppose you had schematics of, say, a KA-10. You could turn those gates into > VHDL or Verilog, and that should deliver an exact replica of the original > machine, bug for bug compatible. That assumes the timing quirks are > manageable, which

[cctalk] Re: PB-440 [was: Paper tape in casettes...]

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 13:28, CAREY SCHUG wrote: > you are correct. Packard Bell. apologies. And the picture on page 8 is (or > is close to) > the paper tape reader I remember. So many fun things to program (I > programmed in octal only). I like the description on that same page referring to "octal

[cctalk] Re: Paper tape in casettes...

2024-02-27 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/27/24 10:10, ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2024-02-27 9:20 a.m., CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: >> It's not a cassette, but the PB-440 (Pitney-Bowes), renamed Raytheon >> 440 and its upgrade the raytheon 520 had a large reel paper tape with >> a bidirectional read and an "operating system"  Load

[cctalk] Re: Overland Data Depot4 application

2024-02-23 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/23/24 20:32, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: > Would you consider parting with it?  I've actually got the 1052S up and > working with the Depot4 software but I'm still looking for a 6250 unit. > Hi Steve, I might consider a trade, but to be perfectly frank, I don't think you'd like it. At

[cctalk] Re: RD54 Maxtor XT-2190 w/one long meep

2024-02-23 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
I wonder if the XT2180 uses the same mech as the XT1140. That thing's initial seek would wake the dead.. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: NRAO Data tapes

2024-02-10 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
In my experience, the Qualstar drives aren't the best tool for the job. They're basically a cost-minimized apparatus for handling tapes under the most optimistic of conditions. In particular, they don't really move the tape quickly enough at 6250 fci to get a decent read signal. SCSI drives for

[cctalk] Re: NRAO Data tapes

2024-02-09 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/9/24 10:16, Gary Sparkes via cctalk wrote: > Do we have anyone who can read these tapes? Maybe Al at CHM? Any number of folks here should be able to read them. I certainly can, but that's business for me, so not free. --Chuck

[cctalk] Re: Overland Data Depot4 application

2024-02-08 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 2/7/24 22:59, Nico de Jong via cctalk wrote: > > Maybe you dont know, but all the Qualstars I've met, are basically > Pertec. I've run some 1052's on Overland software. > I have a 1260S that's a SCSI interface. The 1052 was also available with a SCSI interface. Basically a 1260 or 1052

[cctalk] Re: Qume 842 8" Disk Drive Question

2024-01-31 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 1/31/24 13:03, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > Michael, > > Thank you, that was what I was planning as my next step.  I haven't > checked to see if the service manual has a full schematic. > > The main purpose of my message on here was to see if I was missing > something obvious like an option

[cctalk] Re: Qume 842 8" Disk Drive Question

2024-01-31 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 1/31/24 11:12, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: > I have not yet tried installing terminating resistors... That might help. It's also possible that the LED/phototransistor for the SS index position is faulty. The two LEDs (SS and DS) are connected in series, so you know that at least one isn't

[cctalk] Re: FASTBACK Help how to recover files stored in this backup format,?

2024-01-23 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 1/23/24 02:13, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > FASTBACK bak up ptogrsm...Help how to recover files stored in this backup > format,? > Back when the museum was next to computer exchange  Inc. Pre '94. We put out > a journal once a year Over 100 pages tightly leaded would like to access > files

[cctalk] Re: Anyone have a D1 deck?

2023-12-30 Thread Chuck Guzis via cctalk
On 12/30/23 22:26, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > https://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/23/12/30/0151241/documentarians-secure-original-reboot-master-tapes-but-need-help-to-play-them > The Bosch unit may be very difficult to find. Will a Sony DVR-1000/2000/2100 do the same job for those

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