[cctalk] Re: What's the going rate for 80286?
On 9/18/24 16:34, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote: if I don't have a computer with one in it in my basement, it's because I recently took it in for recycling. should I not do that any more? I have some 8086 and probably 80386 machines. probably sx and dx, and maybe one with a numerical coprocessor. --Carey You should see what a DIP 8250-compatible UART costs... Doc
[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS
On 7/30/24 17:09, Ali via cctalk wrote: Tuxera Systems acquired Datalight in 2019 and now sells ROM-DOS. They claim it's still fully compatible with MS-DOS. Single User ROM-DOS costs $55 USD, and the SDK for building it embedded is "Call for a Quote". $55 isn't that bad. If it was a real commercial product with printed manuals, disks, etc. I would say that is pretty fair. However, I think it is a download only purchase option though. On the upside it supposedly has built in support for LFN and FAT32 That price wouldn't be bad at all if the "ROM" part were included. I have embedded systems from a V40 8088-alike to Pentium that will run from EPROM or EEPROM; it would be fantastic to have the DataLight/Tuxera run-from-ROM tools. And sadly, even the SDK delivers on CD - no paper for you! Doc
[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS
On 7/29/24 19:21, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 29 Jul 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: I had not realized that 43 yrs. ago Microsoft purchased 86-DOS for $50,000 – US not Cdn. money. With this purchase the PC industry, IBM’s version thereof, began. I remember using it to do amazing things, moreso than what 8-bit machines could do! Initially MS-DOS and PC-DOS differed only in name and trivial items, such as "IO.SYS" and "MSDOS.SYS" being renamed "IBMBIO.COM" and "IBMDOS.COM" When changes were made, Microsoft's and IBM's version numbers were separated. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com And I learned last week that DOS is still alive, and well, and damned expensive. Tuxera Systems acquired Datalight in 2019 and now sells ROM-DOS. They claim it's still fully compatible with MS-DOS. Single User ROM-DOS costs $55 USD, and the SDK for building it embedded is "Call for a Quote". They're apparently pretty active with the Cease & Desist action - none of their products are "out there" in the usual places. Long Live DOS! Doc
[cctalk] Fwd: Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
Sellam, Stay the FUCK off my private email. That crosses the line and you know it. Forwarded Message Subject:Re: [cctalk] Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:46:54 -0700 From: Sellam Abraham To: Doc Shipley On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 10:19 AM Doc Shipley via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: On 7/15/24 12:12, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > The only thing criminal here is Paul Allen's handling of LCM. > With all due respect, man, your noise:signal ratio is getting really awful. Do you ever look at what you've typed and ask yourself if it's *useful*? The last I looked this mailing list was meant to be an exchange of information and a source of support, not a Reddit clone. Useful or not, it needs to be stated. I stand by the comment. Thanks for your feedback. Sellam
[cctalk] Civility; Was Re: Re: LCM auction pre-notice
On 7/15/24 12:12, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: The only thing criminal here is Paul Allen's handling of LCM. With all due respect, man, your noise:signal ratio is getting really awful. Do you ever look at what you've typed and ask yourself if it's *useful*? The last I looked this mailing list was meant to be an exchange of information and a source of support, not a Reddit clone. Doc
[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"
On 6/27/24 21:53, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: The ones that I don't like are ones (particularly flea-market) where the seller refuses to give any indication of what they want, and demands that the potential buyer make the first offer. That goes to a lesson I learned long before the internet: "If you have to ask, it's way too much." Doc
[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
On 6/27/24 00:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:17 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash: THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH. It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to "properly" dispose of my computers. To do so would require a silly amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE, much less what they're worth and where to sell them. Not necessarily. It depends on the trash in question. The second-hand market is huge, and the computer collecting hobby is currently a thriving part of it. Bottom line is that vintage computer stuff now has a lot of value, and there's a generation of younger people coming up behind my generation that has a definite interest in this stuff, from the 1990s PCs all the way back to 1940s mainframes. So even if they were to hire one of those companies that comes and hauls everything away and sells it all on eBay and gives a cut back to the owner, it will still result in much of your effort to preserve historical computer stuff not at all being in vain. Bonus if you leave behind a detailed inventory with historical notes. Sellam My point was, and is, that my heirs must get a choice in all that. Even casual listing on ebay takes time and attention, and in the case of computers there's a significant up-front expense just *housing* them, even temporarily. All my kids have kids of their own and not a lot of available time and attention. It's on me as a responsible father to make it available if, and only if, they feel it's worth their time. Otherwise I'm leaving them a burden that's not of their choosing. I should add that organizing and making coherent the physical storage of all this is a big part of my goal. *I* know what that open topped cardboard carton of circuit boards is, but J Random Helper will have no idea how to tell the ISA adapters from the AGB cards from the QBus RAM boards, and even if there's a detailed inventory, somebody would have to find the *correct* set of characters on the silkscreens and look them up. I feel that just sorting for some kind of coherency and consistently labeling all the little parts and pieces, and packing them in stackable cartons or tubs, will go a very long way toward making my collection an asset to the heirs instead of a giant pain in the butt. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
To some extent I agree with you, but the Sunk Cost Fallacy is a real thing. I'm 50-ish minutes from turning 66 years old. I've already outlived most of my contemporaries and the collectors I knew personally are either dead or lost interest long ago. In good conscience, I simply can't avoid dealing with all my junk *now*. I don't have energy or resources - the space requirement alone has skyrocketed in cost the last few years - to continue to collect physical examples of my computing interests. For my own economic security I've started divesting. I plan to 90% cash out while I'm physically able and while I'm able to enjoy whatever return that brings. Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash: THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH. It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to "properly" dispose of my computers. To do so would require a silly amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE, much less what they're worth and where to sell them. At this time I'm culling my collection on paper. Evaluating what I want to keep, what I can reasonably *afford* to curate, what I can effectively emulate, and current value. What I paid for any of it is absolutely irrelevant. My longer term plan is to die with one Uhaul load or less of Stuff, and a detailed inventory of what's there, including current value and current best venue for sales. My daughter also has contact info for a friend who will post here and a couple of other places if she wants somebody to just come take it off her hands. Doc On 6/26/24 16:04, Teo Zenios via cctalk wrote: When you sell it as a lot all you are doing is taking pennies on the dollar and the buyer gets all the profit. If collecting starts to decline the buyer still makes money, if the hobby goes up they make even more money. The issue starts to suck more if you actually paid a pretty penny for your collectables and then want to cash out. Plenty of people started collecting what was pretty much trash (before e-waste was even a thing and Ebay didn't exist yet) and those people will make out well either way. I remember as a teen going to a coin/stamp shop and seeing people in suits show up to buy the place out with a suitcase full of cash for maybe $15% of catalog value when stamp collecting was going crazy in the early 1980's. Granted he probably would have been better off auctioning his best stuff at that time and burning the rest as collecting has been going down every year since (except for some rarities here and there). -Original Message- From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 12:59 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: Sellam Abraham Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:31 AM Teo Zenios via cctalk wrote: Ditching a collection is a full time job. It took you so many years to put it together and it will take the same amount of time to part it out if you expect to get any real money out of it (unless you sell the most wanted items and recycle the rest). This is very true, as I discovered when I began selling off (what remained of) my collection in 2017. I thought I'd get it all out in a year or so. It's been 7 years and I'm still at it, with no real end in sight. Granted I haven't been working on it diligently, and I still ended up with 40 pallets of stuff after the Great Vintage Computing Heist of 2012, but disgorging a large collection is in fact a major undertaking, unless you're willing to sell it all at one price, and can find such a buyer to take it in one lot. Sellam
[cctalk] Windows, Was Re: Re: First Personal Computer
On 5/30/24 07:29, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 2:06 AM John Herron via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Only because I thought it would be funny to hear ChatGPT's wrong answer. Here is ChatGPT's answer on the first personal computer. This would be a fun topic for a series of online debates. There seem to be a few angles 1) First microcomputer of the modern style (desktop computer running home/small business applications) 2) First computer that was primarily used as a personal computer but not necessarily practically or large-scale 3) First inadvertent use of a computer as a personal computer (i.e. first application developed for personal use on a machine not originally designed for such a purpose) more? Can we do the "Which version of Windows is 'Classic' now?" flame war next? Pleeeze? Doc
[cctalk] Re: Last Buy notification for Z80 (Z84C00 Product line)
On 4/20/24 13:16, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Who still uses the Z80 line for new projects? Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to just use an Arduino or Raspberry Pi? I dissected a dead coffee maker last week that has a current-design 8051 clone running the control board. Well-known instruction sets and "Nobody cares if I clone this" make powerful arguments Doc
[cctalk] Re: Bomar 901b My wife found in my stuff. Is this as scarce at it seems?s,?
On 4/15/24 21:03, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Bomar 901b My wife found in my stuff. Is this as scarce at it seems?s,? My dad had one of those in '72-ish. IIRC he paid just under $400 for it. It was a complete game-changer. His business sold cotton farming implements, and Dad said that the ability to calculate the bottom line without having to go to a desk almost doubled his new-customer sales. We talk a lot about the technical aspects and advantages of gear like this, but I think it's difficult to remember just how much effect mobilization had in everyday life. Also IIRC, year or so later a TI calculator with more functions, more digits, and twice the battery life cost about $100 Doc
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On 3/23/24 09:53, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Yes. So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical to do it and do it right. I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran it, for their Arpanet connection. The story was that CAC was a good facility to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illiac 4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to campus protests. So there was little worry about having to repair the file system manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or perhaps wasn't reliable yet. paul You say that like fsck is reliable now Doc
[cctalk] Re: PDP 11/34 or 11/04 front panel question
On 11/6/23 19:33, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Has anyone successfully glued back the plastic sheet to the aluminium plate? If yes, what type of glue did you use and how exactly did you do the operation? Any suggestions, advice or tips? Thanks and best regards Tom Hunter 3M markets several different types of double-sided adhesive sheets that can be positioned by applying the sheet to one part and then wetting the other part, usually with Windex. Once you've got the position correct you squeegee the liquid and any bubbles out to the edges. I couldn't say whether the adhesives would damage your plastic, but given that there's no curing involved I doubt there'd be any at all. If you're willing to endure some hold time 3M might even help you with that. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Mail veracity signing
I got it, and vaxen.net is a private "virtualdomain" server running on a private email server. None of that is necessarily complicated but it's not your average Google Services mail domain. Thanks for the work you're putting in! Doc On 4/20/23 19:32, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: Folks, A heads up that I've turned on some mail veracity signing functionality in Mailman. One could hope it would just work, and that I made no mistakes in the configuration, but... :) I'm working on this to try to improve deliverability of list traffic. De
[cctalk] Re: Tadpole RISC laptop RAM modules
On 2/26/23 15:16, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: Well, this is the second Tadpole laptop RAM module I've had go bad on me (one in my PA-RISC PrecisionBook and now one in my SPARC UltraBook IIi). These are the maroon-red 256MB or 512MB screw-in modules marked "Huxley Only" using a custom friction fit connector, not regular SO-DIMMs. I can't find an obvious part number on them and searching for Tadpole RAM modules just finds the rinkydink 8MB parts for the earlier SPARCbooks. Anyone know someone who carries them, or better still, is willing to sell some they have? Looking for a 256MB module but a 512MB module would be even better. Izzat a "SPARCBook II"? If so, I have one with 2 drives, and the /usr drive is failing. I can replace that but I have no idea how to reinstall SunOS/Solaris/Whatever. I don't have a floppy drive or the SCSI dongle. Help? You also have the only other PrecisionBook I've ever heard of. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Store with "vintage" computers and parts
On 2/9/23 12:58, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: There are some older folks on the list, so this is a good time to talk about internet safety. . . . and maybe a [youtube?] tutorial on sucking eggs? O, SNAP!!! Doc, giggling uncontrollably
[cctalk] Re: Restoring floppy disk images to their rightful media
On 1/24/23 17:28, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I know people seemed kind of turned off by the idea of GOTEK floppy disk emulators, but you do realize if you actually have the machine you are wanting to make disks for the GOTEK is a great way to do it. Put a GOTEK and a real drive on the machine and just use backup. Then, for the purists, take the GOTEK back off and hide it in a drawer. This - a gotek and an original-format floppy drive - is my standard setup for machines that support multiple floppy drives. I could write a small essay on all the ways this works for me, but they mostly boil down to one choice. Sometimes I want the whole experience, complete with noise and chatter and blinky amber lights, and sometimes I want to just get it done and move on. Example: Installing WFW 3.11. Been here, done this, way too many times. Gotek. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Computer of Thesus (CRT Risk)
On 1/24/23 15:22, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On 1/24/2023 12:14 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: To me, I'm somewhat concerned on the "health risk" of CRTs - I know there is no direct evidence about it. But they're fundamentally like old radar systems, using a directed beam. Never mind radiation, etc. TVs damage the brain! This Subject: line is damaging my brain. Doc
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/21/23 11:35, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 22:11, Mike Stein wrote: FWIW, I just received a Gotek last week and it uses an AT32F415. Aw shucks, that's not inspiring at all. F4 core, but only 32KB of SRAM. Probably is cheaper than the usual STM32F107. The 2022 Goteks use a 256KB artery; I don't know the part number offhand. The 32KB Goteks work fine (in the formats I know - PC & Amiga mostly) with good fast USB storage and FlashFloppy firmware. HxC did *not* work for a while but I think that's been fixed. (and no, the AT32F415 variants weren't one bit cheaper.) Doc
[cctalk] Re: Reading Old Floppies
On 1/8/23 23:21, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 1/8/23 8:41 PM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: I avoid Disk Utility like the plague. Doc, will you please elaborate on why you avoid the Disk Utility (.app)? Short version is that the GUI Disk Utility hides too much of what it's doing AND, more to the point, makes assumptions by default. Yes, it's possible to override the default but after [holy crap!] 2 decades of using it I still have to fumble around. I much prefer the command-line "diskutil". It's the same tool, I guess, but the CLI demands explicit control. In almost every operation that writes to disk, if you leave out a parameter the operation doesn't happen. Bonus, you can get very detailed diagnostic info. Plus, you know... I'm still a little averse to pointy clicky. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Reading Old Floppies
On 1/8/23 19:29, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: When reading old floppies, how often is it advisable to clean the drive? I managed the first 3.5” floppies no problem, I’m using a USB Floppy Drive hooked up to my Mac Laptop, I was able to image them using “Disk Utility”. The next two floppies have had errors. Though I think I was able to successfully copy all the files off the one. Also, what is floppy drive cleaning fluid made of, and how well does it age? I know I’ve got at least a couple cleaning floppies around here, but they’re *OLD*. I avoid Disk Utility like the plague. dd works great, although MacOS's device naming is stupid. "diskutil list" will show you what the floppy device is, and "sudo diskutil unmountdisk diskX" will free it for imaging. If you can source a Blue Pill, though, you can handwire it to a floppy drive and run the greaseweazle tools... https://github.com/keirf/greaseweazle/wiki/Blue-Pill-Direct Good luck! Doc
[cctalk] Re: Downsizing "feeler"
On 1/7/23 13:02, George Currie via cctalk wrote: Greetings all, it's "that time", the time I've finally accepted that I no longer have the time/energy/space to devote to this collection/restoration hobby that I've been able to enjoy for several decades now.During this time, I've managed to amass a pretty sizeable amount of hardware, software, manuals, etc. We're talking half a garage, part of a large shed and a storage rental's worth of stuff. I need to go through and hit some highlights, but there are things from rack mount PDP-10's, an SGI (Challenge XL rack, Indy's), tons of old Macs (original, 512, original, Portable, etc), Lisa, Apple II, Commodore, TRS80, Grid, HERO robots, DG Aviion, HP PA-RISC, MIPS system, early luggables (e.g. Zenith), boxes of ISA cards, etc, etc, etc. A good 20ft uhaul trucks worth of stuff.There is no way I can piece meal stuff, so I'd be looking for someone, or an org like a museum, who is willing to take the whole enchilada.This is an early feeler before I start doing actual inventory to see if a) is anyone interested in/capable of dealing with a large collectionb) is anyone aware of someone, or a museum, that may be interestedI know I'm a bit light on the details, and we all know where the devil lives. But this is the first step.The collection is located in Central Texas.TIA for any interest, leads, pointers, sympathy, ridicule, etc.George Are you looking to sell or donate? Doc
[cctalk] Re: HP Computer Museum update
On 11/8/22 15:27, David Collins via cctalk wrote: With only a few exceptions, the museum's entire collection of HP hardware, software and manuals has now been shipped from Melbourne, Australia, to HPCA's archival company - Heritage Werks Inc, in Atlanta, Georgia, USA. The equipment will be catalogued and preserved as a record of HP's early years in computing, with the ability for HP offices to borrow equipment for display purposes. This will bring to a close my role in maintaining Jon's legacy in HP computing. It's been a privilege to be responsible for the collection and the website and to see the value they bring to the vintage computing community. This is a huge thing. I cannot imagine how much time and eergy you've invested making this happen. Congratulations on a successful transition, and thank you so very much for your efforts! Doc
[cctalk] Re: Bubble Memory
On 10/20/22 20:15, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote: Sigh... Yet another American seler who doesn't understand how simple overseas shipping is. Oh, we understand, we really do. We also get really tired of strangers asking us to lie, on paper, to foreign government agencies. We understand why that's "necessary". We understand that customs duties in most other countries are insane. We understand that the chances of getting caught twiddling our declaration is minimal, and the odds of prosecution are even less. NONE of that makes taking that risk tenable for a person who hasn't earned my trust. My main, issue, though, is the response from prospective recipients when I say I won't falsify customs forms. It's usually something like "Don't be such a wimp." That's the behavior that makes me REALLY want not to ship overseas. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Apple G5 Rebuild
On 10/10/22 11:33, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 at 08:20, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote: Problem is my GoogleFoo can't find any diagrams, illustrations etc on how the internals are put together What? I am *amazed*. I don't know how you could _not_ find the info. There is loads of it. This is the first hit on "apple powermac g5 disassembly" -- https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Disassembling+Power+Mac+G5+Motherboard/7579 This is the 2nd: https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Power_Mac_G5 It's one of the easiest machines ever to assemble or disassemble and there's tons of info, videos, walkthrough, step by step guides etc. 4 words is not "Google-fu". Liam, don't be a d**k. Doc
[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux
On 8/6/2022 5:02 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: For fruit flies in kitchen put some apple vinegar in a cup, cover it with saran wrap, make a few small holes in it with a knife and push the wrap into the cup (not touching the vinegar) to make a dimple. Works perfectly. We use 2 parts molasses to one part apple vinegar. You don't even need the saran wrap! People who have never actually tried doing it constantly claim that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Yeah... You need the vinegar. Even a fly won't trust anything that's too perfectly sweet. Doc
[cctalk] Re: Slightly off topic --Places to go in Huntsville
On 8/5/2022 4:39 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: Next week I will be in the Huntsville, Al, USA area for an entire day with no commitments. Does anyone have recommendations on how to spend my day? I have been to the space and rocket museum several times. Any computer museums or displays, especially of space-related equipment? Any good surplus stores? All suggestions welcome. Not knowing where you're from, it may be too familiar to be fun, but Huntsville is in some of the most beautiful country in the US. It's at the foot of the Appalachian/Smokey/Blue Ridge complex, and driving northeast takes you out of the urban area PDQ. Pack a lunch, fill the tank, go exploring. Doc
[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux
On 8/5/2022 9:48 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: For fruit flies in kitchen put some apple vinegar in a cup, cover it with saran wrap, make a few small holes in it with a knife and push the wrap into the cup (not touching the vinegar) to make a dimple. Works perfectly. We use 2 parts molasses to one part apple vinegar. You don't even need the saran wrap! Doc
[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux
On 8/4/2022 4:07 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 8/4/22 2:12 PM, Doc Shipley via cctalk wrote: This becomes an actual showstopper when the most recent hardware platform that will run the most recent Linux kernel to support DECNet becomes impossible to maintain. I'm not convinced that the inability to boot the newest kernel that supports DECnet will be in and of itself a show stopper. I believe it will be possible to run said kernel as a user space process a la. User Mode Linux (arch=um) with a virtual NIC that is bridged to the external Ethernet NIC. There's still the possibility of running the older kernel in a VM even when it won't run native on the hardware. All very true. I was just whacking at the low hanging fruit... ;-) Doc
[cctalk] Re: DECnet to be dropped from Linux
On 8/2/2022 2:12 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: I'm trying to understand how many installations are actually using DECnet in Linux / how big the potential problem is / will be. This becomes an actual showstopper when the most recent hardware platform that will run the most recent Linux kernel to support DECNet becomes impossible to maintain. In other words you'll probably want to put your DECNet bridge system behind a more current firewall fairly soon, but DECNet in current Linux distributions will not stop working then it's dropped from future versions. No offense, people, but the sky is not falling. Doc
Re: Looking for Atari Mega ST peripherals
On April 12, 2022 8:34:10 PM CDT, Ryan Eisworth via cctalk wrote: >Hi folks, > >I'm looking for a keyboard and mouse for a Mega ST. Please contact me if you >have either available. I'm in Texas, USA, 77833. > >Best, >Ryan I have a mouse, and am in Texas.
Re: Women of Computing
On 12/4/21 12:37, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: OK, Boomer. There's really no call to be nasty about it. To those of us who are baby boomers, that usage is extremely offensive. Doc
BC19S
Hi, Chris, Where are you, and how long is that cable? I believe that I have a spare that's around 18". As luck would have it, I'm moving, and today I'm sorting and culling the graphics cable tub anyway. If I have a spare I'll save it out. Doc
Re: RQDX3 firmware sources
On 8/26/21 19:22, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote: Has anyone tried to compile the sources? succeeded? I'm not even going to try, but I think the actual low-level formatter code is missing. Was curious if anyone else noticed that too. I always thought that the service diagnostics were the only formatting code available for the RQDX3? Doc
Re: Tektronix XpressWare 8.1
On 8/22/21 19:16, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: Bitsavers has 6.3 (thank you Al) but I'm trying to push my luck and find 8.1 for this XP421CH Xterm. Anyone know of where it can be found? Well There's this: http://bio.gsi.de/DOCS/NCD/www.technogoths.demon.co.uk/tekxp400/node3.html and there's this: http://www.docsbox.net/V81106.tgz Please don't kill my server. It's been a long long time since I had the XP400D, and I don't think I ever tried connecting from Windows, so you're kind of on your own. Good luck! Doc
Re: Install Floppies (Was: Compaq Deskpro boards/hard drives from
On 7/23/21 18:35, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 7/23/21 2:11 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Some further questions BELOW to complete the distribution media database: }:-) 1) Which ones were available on 5.25"? (and how many disks?) A) "360K"? B) "1.2M"? C) "1.4M"? D) Microsoft non-standard crammed 3.5" HD? (1.7M?) Ugh ... I don't know and I don't have a good way to differentiate my disk images. First CD-ROM install media that I got was Windows 3.00, but it was an inclusion on a "tools" collection CD-ROM (not quite a shovel-ware). Then a Multi-Language 3.00 CD-ROM from Microsoft (for international market) I would like to know more about, or better find a copy, of such a CD-ROM. I do wish that I could do an install of MS-DOS 6.22, CD-ROM driver + MSCDExec, DOSidle, and Windows 3.x on a CD-ROM for simplifying installations in virtual machines. I've not yet figured out how to put all of the install files for MS-DOS 6.22 in one directory, boot and do the install. My minimal passes at doing so don't work as well as I want or get stuck wanting to change the disk based on the disk label. > 3.10 Windows CD-ROM from Microsoft Interesting. When did MS-DOS come on CD-ROM? Or did it? I have an ISO image labeled "OEM Adaptation Kit" that contains v6.22 (I think? 6.x at any rate). As far as I know the OAKs are the only Microsoft DOS CDs, and I expect that's your best bet for making a single-directory install image. The "wildman" v6.22 CD-ROM boots and installs MS-DOS, iirc with some options like installing mscdexe, etc. Totally off the MS reservation, but it was pretty well documented, and all the MS files passed checksum testing. It ought to be simple enough to add Windows to that. I have a Dell CD with DOS 6 and Windows 3.1 on it, but I don't think it's bootable. I also don't remember the directory structure. Windows 95 on 3.5" 1.44M floppy is 28 disks. I had 98 on 3.5" floppy but I don't remember disk count or format. Pretty sure I still have my backup copy of 95, and pretty sure I don't have 98 anymore. They were both MS releases, not OEM. And finally, slightly OT, I remember buying an IBM-branded box set of PC-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3-something *on CD* with a boot floppy. I was very new with non-OEM hardware and clean installs, so when my computer freaked out about a "virus is trying to alter the boot sectors" *I* freaked out, took it back to the store and chewed them out for selling malware. I still occasionally kick myself for letting that go, and chuckle at myself over the tirade I delivered. Doc
Re: VAX4000 VLC diagnostics/console
On 7/13/21 14:30, Adrian Graham via cctalk wrote: Hi folks, Powering up with nothing attached apart from an MMJ/H8571 cable I get nothing on the console, I'm using PuTTY via a genuine COM1 port on a PC which is one level above what I used last time I powered the machine up (FTDI USB adapter to a laptop). Diagnostic LEDs cycle through the tests and end up at ' 0011' which according to the manual is 'entering the console program'. Clearly the DALLAS has passed the TOY tests, but if it's not happy would that stop the console displaying? It doesn't matter how I set S3, next step I guess is to hook it up to a 'proper' VT. Adrian, I'm having exactly that problem with my VLC. I put a Real VT420 on it and still get no output. With a known-good/compatible monitor and keyboard on it, same thing. If there's a solution to this, I'd love to know. Doc
Re: Vax/pdp on ebay
On 3/5/21 10:51, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote: Speaking of badges, I have a BA23 that doesn't have one. It was an 11/73 but that badge is gone, and I am trying to repair an 11/93 to go in there. Does anybody have a spare 11/73 badge for the BA23 that could be used as a model for a printed version that says 11/93? I don't believe there ever was one for the BA23 chassis! I have a BA123 micro VAX II badge going spare if anybody needs it, or to swap for an 11/73! I once had a pair of 11/93s that originally lived in BA23 pedestals, and I'm fairly certain that they did have "MicroPDP 11/93" badges. I'll look and see if I have any photos. Doc
Re: DEC backplane power connectors
Not at all a waste. I have that page bookmarked. Doc On 1/27/21 11:51, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > Are the power connectors on the DEC PDP-11 backplanes (e.g. DD11-DF > 15pin and 6pin) Molex or other? > Are they still commonly available? https://gunkies.org/wiki/DEC_power_distribution_connectors#Connectors I'm not sure why I bothered to write all this stuff up; it was clearly a waste of time. Noel
Winsystems SAT-V40
I know this is a long shot, but I'm asking anyhow. I'm looking for the Ops Manual for a Winsystems single-board system. Model: SAT-V40 P/N: 400-0186-000 The SAT-V41 model is essentially the same board, so I'd settle for docs for that. There are references (from 2012) to SAT-V41.PDF, so I know it at least *did* exist in digital form. If anyone in the US has the paper manual I would happily scan it, and pay postage both ways. Thanks! Doc
Re: WTB: Amiga 8375 Agnus IC (NTSC or PAL) or Amiga 600 motherboard
On 11/16/20 10:47 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: Ethan I probably have one. More likely to be NTSC than PAL - I'll look. What do they go for, these days? Cheers Robert Hello Robert, Did you find this? Eager to get back to repairing the A600. It has kicked my butt for a long time. A friend gave me the system working and I like it a lot, but then the caps leaked. Cleaned that up but can't get past RAM failure issue that isn't the RAM chips. If all else fails, there's this: https://github.com/LIV2/Diet-Agnus-A500-plus It's a little interposer that allows using an 8372A Agnus. You're limited to 1MB chipram with it, but it beats 0. Doc
Re: WTB: Amiga 8375 Agnus IC (NTSC or PAL) or Amiga 600 motherboard
On 11/12/20 10:42 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: Looking for an Amiga 8375 Agnus IC (Amiga 600, Amiga 500 Plus.) NTSC is what I have now but the PAL version might work. So say we all, man, so say we all. Doc
Re: Circuit board trace repair...
When I worked for Texas Instruments in '83, we used 30ga 24K gold wire... I use plain wire-wrap wire for board repairs, and from the looks of most of my pre-1990 circuit boards, that's period correct. The only issue I'd have with that 3M tape would be cutting it narrow enough to fit. Otherwise, it's purpose-built for what you're doing. Doc On 8/10/20 4:31 PM, William Sudbrink via cctech wrote: Hi All, I'm going to be attempting to repair, both cosmetically and operationally, a circuit board that had a strip of 12 volt trace "blown off" of it by a short. The fiberglass is clean and there was no solder resist in the affected area. I'm considering using 3M 1183 adhesive tinned foil tape for the job. Has anyone else done this? Could you recommend this or another product? Any tips? Thanks, Bill Sudbrink
Re: Restarting Old Amiga's
On 6/10/20 5:10 PM, Jules Richardson via cctech wrote: That is crazy. To buy something to "mark to market" the price real high ... you would still have to pay the crazy eBay fees. Yeah, it's weird. Mind you I was doing some poking around and A4000 desktop/tower parts prices seem to generally be insanely high across the board. There are a bunch of new-production Amiga motherboard PCBs available now, and they all require the original Amiga custom chips. Individual IC prices are higher than I've ever seen them and they're suddenly very scarce. Even dead-dead-dead and stripped A3000 and A4000 boards are suddenly valuable for the slot hardware That's also why empty cases are going so high. ObBragALittle: I just got my "Floppy209" Rev6.2 A2000 PCB this week, and I am stoked. I have an old 2000 that looks like it was stored on its side (the wrong side) when the battery went. All the logic is good, except the CPU, but several of the card connectors are rotted underneath. This PCB is a gift from the universe! ObWifeQuote: Just looks like 4 square feet of expensive holes. Doc
Re: Amiga Vendors?
On 6/10/20 11:05 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: I found AmigaKit.com in the UK, are there any Amiga vendors left in the US? I need to order some parts, and not only do I not remember who I used to use in the US, I assume they’re gone. Zane I haven't dealt with them but there's Amiga On The Lake - a *new* Amiga vendor: http://amigaonthelake.com/ There's a ton of reverse-engineering going on in the Amiga world. There are new-production motherboard PCBs for the A500+, A1200, A2000 and A4000D. Plus, for the A3000 and A4000 there are "enhanced" versions a Re-Amiga 3000 with SMD passives and SIMM sockets instead of ZIP/CHIP the "AA3000+" which is a full rework, including daughterboard with optional PCI The A4000TX which is a more mildly enhanced A4000 in micro-ATX form factor. The A3640, reborn as A2640/A3660 Plus a new-design CPLD based A2000 flicker-fixer that's actually affordable. Most of those are Open Hardware, and all of them are available as Amibay as group buys or straight-up For Sale, or on Tindie. Free-ish CAD and design software has been very very good to the Amiga community. Doc
Re: 2.11bsd rogue can't build
On 3/4/20 8:01 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctech wrote: Wonder why I can't make(1) rogue on my 11/83, 2044KW, latest patch release from sms. [16] root--> make ld:/usr/lib/libcurses.a(refresh.o): text overflow *** Exit 4 Stop. [17] root--> I'm going on 15-years-ago recollection here, but if that's the problem I think it is, it can be fixed by reallocating driver distribution in the overlays. I tried to build 2.11 with ethernet support and piled all the extra includes into one overlay. A more even distribution across overlays fixed it. Doc
Waay OT, IRC on Win10, was Re: Discord
On 11/16/19 12:04 AM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: well irc seems to be broken on windows 10 for me Windows 10 is actually the first Windows in which IRC is correctly supported. 1. Enable Windows Subsystem for Linux. 2. Get the (free) Linux distribution of choice from the MS Store. 3. Use your distribution's package management tools, apt or yum etc, to install your favorite CLI IRC client. 4. PROFIT! I'll just grab my hat on the way out... Doc
Re: WTB Metcal workstand
On September 25, 2019 9:03:23 PM CDT, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > >> On Sep 25, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alexandre Souza via cctalk > wrote: >> >> Dear sirs >> >> I'm looking for a metcal MX500 (so you know what handpiece I have) >workstand. Also, cheap tips and a new handle, mine is broken and fixed >up man times >> >> I don't know if this request is apropriate on this list, but who >knows? =) >> >> Thanks >> Alexandre >> >> PS: I know there are some on epay… > > >Is there a good source for cheap Metcal tips? I got mine through this >list about 20 years ago, and IIRC, I still need tips. > >Zane -- I just replaced my old Metcal base unit - a PS2E? - last year off ebay for $40. I get tips NIB for $8-15. It's old, and ugly, and probably not as efficient as the new ones, but I can do sub-mm trace repairs with it, or build a working harness for my motorcycle. I love me some Metcal. Doc Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Re: AIX 5L/ia64 media?
On 7/25/19 5:07 AM, Plamen Mihaylov via cctech wrote: I know it was a short lived, but anyone has the installation cd or iso image? I was actively involved with AIX as an IBM contractor till 2010 and as a hobbyist user since then. I've never heard even a rumor that such media exists, much less of anyone running it. The short version, from my perspective: I was teaching AIX admin courses at the time, and learned of the ia64 port when it was mentioned in some beta course material. I tried to track down any solid information with the AIX guys here in Austin and my Linux contacts in Durham NC. The official AIX for ia64 beta release, and later the licensed product in 2001/2002, wasn't available for customer installation, or as a media set for customer use. (IBM's later statements that AIX/ia64 was a request-for-quote only item supports that.) It wasn't even called AIX, at least within IBM, it was "Monterey". Further, IBM was not the sole marketing source for Monterey - Caldera/SCO Group and IBM were both marketing Monterey and paying each other royalties. Officially, that is. I've never found any record or rumor of SCO actually selling a copy. This last is mostly scuttlebutt and surmise, but anyone who has worked with IBM will recognize the mindset. When SCO started the infamous IBM lawsuit, I strongly suspect that IBM Legal scoured the planet for Monterey media and made it Gone. Doc
Re: IBM PC-RT 6150 looking for help
On 6/15/19 2:19 AM, Peter Turczak via cctalk wrote: In preparation of moving, I dug out a IBM 6150 PC-RT from my basement. This was my first proper computer as a child, which was donated to me by a local company that upgraded their CAD system. So it would be interesting to bring it back to life. The machine is equipped with an 320 MB ESDI, 10 MBit Baseband Ethernet adapter and an IBM Megapel graphics adapter. This baby was quite a sight in 1993 when I got it, with its elegant console font designed by Knuth. Now I'm trying to revive the old machine, but there are some hassles: The hard disk seems to be stuck or the drives electronics are broken, it does not spin up. As these drives are quite rare, I'm looking for the SCSI card (Model 6lX700l). Is it right, the PC-RT can boot off SCSI? While I made images of the install floppies, it seems the AIX base system 2.0.0. disk #1 is missing. The AIXWindows floppies where not imaged and seem to be unreadable. Otherwise all VRM/extendes svcs, etc floppy images are at hand. I had a PC-RT awhile back that came with dead hard disks. I got AIX going with an ISA IDE adapter and a 1GB IDE drive. This was a long time ago and the details are hazy, but maybe this is enough to get you started: I don't remember the nature of the limitations on both IDE adapter and disk. I do remember that I needed an adapter that allowed disabling the floppy interface (or didn't have one), that later IDE chipsets did not work, and that there was one IDE instruction that the disk drive needed to *not* support. The <2GB Seagate Medalist series were known to ignore that instruction and my Medalist 1GB worked. Doc
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/20/18 10:41 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote: > From: Al Kossow > The quality of modern keycaps is poor. > These guys are after mechanical boards with double-shot keytops. There's something I'm still not quite grasping. I can see two reasons for people liking the old keyboards: - i) Higher quality construction - ii) Connection, through a historial artifact, to an earlier age Am I missing any? I can definitely see the first (I myself find many modern keyboards to be complete crap), but if that's _all_ it is, I'd think there'd be a market for modern production of quality keyboards - not a large market, true, but I'd think it would be large enough to be worth servicing? (Unless the cost to produce such would be so high that there wouldn't be any buyers - but that seems at odd with some of the prices being mentioned.) So maybe people _only_ want keyboards that have both i) and ii)? i) There is certainly a very active market in good quality, current-production keyboards, keyboard kits and keyboard parts. That market is not just being serviced, it's moving past the niche category. The level of ongoing development and the vendors' response to customer input are phenomenal. The level of "discernment" in the higher tiers of keyboard gear reminds me a lot of the high-end audiophile market I'm mostly deaf and my hands are scarred, arthritic, and desensitized and I don't play video games, so I have no useful opinion about either one. ii) My observation, by no means authoritative, is that the folk who used those '80s keyboards in the '80s aren't the ones paying top dollar for them. My grandson dreams of owning a '67 Dodge Charger. A 440cid '68 was my daily driver for a couple of years, and I don't want one at all. Same-same. Doc
Re: Selling keyboards without the terminal
On 10/19/18 12:18 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: On Oct 19, 2018, at 10:34 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Here is a great example of why the keyboards and terminals are getting separated Keyboard fetishists are vermin; They are destructive and have no redeeming qualities, and should be treated as such. I had one of them spend the better part of an hour going on about how I had achieved “the holy grail of collecting” by having more than one “Space Cadet” keyboard, fawning about how superlatively perfect they’re supposed to be and everything else pales in comparison. They’re a status symbol in keyboard fetishist circles. According to him they auction north of $5000 for even non-working examples. I have no idea why. GNU Emacs can't use most of the “special” keys - The Lisp Machine itself doesn't even use most of them - and control is in the same relative place as modern keyboards instead of being where the caps lock key is which was the "mostest hacker-est” thing last I heard. I think it’s just conspicuous consumption - Having one proves you’ve got the dosh to waste things other people must work hard for a chance to get. That's just nasty. Your invective, that is. There are idiots in any enthusiast group, and predators. Including this group, if we're honest. You want to talk conspicuous consumption? How many on this list, myself included, have spent a fortune on old computer hardware, and then another fortune housing it? I'm one of those "fetishists" - I do love me a nice clackety keyboard. And not for nothing, but my experience with '80s- and '90s-era mechanical keyboards is precisely why I do. I build my keyboards from new parts, and I think paying $5/switch for parts from the old Apple Extended Keyboard II is just silly, but I have a hard time blaming anybody for pursuing what's important to them. You guys want people to stop scavenging those irreplaceable treasures? Ante up, pure and simple. I've seen the same thing over and over in the vintage computer circles - guys wailing and wringing their hands about classic machines going to keyboard scavengers, or gold recovery, or whatever the Demon du Jour happens to be. And then they won't pay the price of shipping to keep the thing out of the scrap pile. I have a 5140 Convertible that I tried to sell awhile back in the vcfed community. I got a lot of lowball offers and a lot of rants veiled as warnings about those godless scavengers. From the same cheapskates of course. In the end, that system is worth twice as much as desoldered parts as the best offer I got. Survey sez all that wailing and teeth-gnashing is bullshit.
Re: Sparc Laptops
On 5/11/18 6:45 AM, Michael Thompson via cctalk wrote: Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:08:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Sparc Laptops I have a pretty cool DEC 486 laptop. I am unsure if they made a Pentium laptop before they were bought out. http://www.vintagecomputer.net/digital/DECpc_433SLC/ DECpc_433SLC_Premium_open2.jpg b On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:46 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: I dream of owning an Alphabook. It?s a silly dream, but it?s one I dream anyway. I have a Sparcbook 3GS (I think that?s the model) somewhere. Zane I have about 15 SPARC based lugables and laptops. Some are TRIgem/RDI Britelites that have an IPC/IPX/LX motherboard inside, three Voyagers, the rest are Tadpole SB2, SB3, SB3GX, and Ultrabooks. oh! Do you, by chance, know where I can find either install media or the Tadpole-specific drivers for a SPARCBook 2? System docs would be a bonus. I have an SB2 with a dying HDD. I also have a 2.5" SCSI-IDE adapter, so I'd like to get it going again. This would likely be a bootp-based installation. Thanks! Doc
Re: DEC Storageworks
Sorry, hit send half-done. The cans are easy to open, and a bit of care will prevent damage to the electronics. The internal connectors are all Mylar ribbon cables and the IDC and Molex connectors are VERY tight. This means that you'll need to use a putty knife or screwdriver to pry the SCSI and power connectors off the drive without stressing the ribbon. The ribbon cable *will* either break away from the plug or just break if you pull on it. Having said that,, after the obligatory learning curve I did replace a bunch of the drives in SW cans without mishap. ;-) Doc On 2/4/18 10:56 PM, Doc Shipley via cctech wrote: The Storageworks cabinets I worked with were all either LVD or SE SCSI, no HVD. All of the RZ26 and some of RZ28 and RZ29 disks that I've seen were 50-pin, the rest 80-pin. I don't recall any 68-pin Storageworks drives. Then again, my knowledge of that whole ecosystem is VERY anectdotal and limited. I think the answer you need is "Pop the cans open and look first." Doc On 2/4/18 10:17 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: Ben; Jbod. Didn't know what it meant until today. The computer has 4 SCSI controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration. 4 drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI controller. What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI. I don't know what is in there. Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin. Doug On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote: I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD SCSI ... unless you’ve swapped out the guts yourself, I’d not mix and match... Then again it’s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I could be mistaken... As for opening them, I’ve cracked them open before. It’s possible, but they were not manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be careful. Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod? -Ben Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array. The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that are blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable? Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk out? Doug
Re: DEC Storageworks
The Storageworks cabinets I worked with were all either LVD or SE SCSI, no HVD. All of the RZ26 and some of RZ28 and RZ29 disks that I've seen were 50-pin, the rest 80-pin. I don't recall any 68-pin Storageworks drives. Then again, my knowledge of that whole ecosystem is VERY anectdotal and limited. I think the answer you need is "Pop the cans open and look first." Doc On 2/4/18 10:17 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: Ben; Jbod. Didn't know what it meant until today. The computer has 4 SCSI controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration. 4 drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI controller. What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI. I don't know what is in there. Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin. Doug On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote: I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD SCSI ... unless you’ve swapped out the guts yourself, I’d not mix and match... Then again it’s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I could be mistaken... As for opening them, I’ve cracked them open before. It’s possible, but they were not manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be careful. Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod? -Ben Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote: The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array. The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that are blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable? Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk out? Doug
Re: Ibm rs6000 7025-f50
On 7/26/17 8:33 PM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote: I emailed IBM regarding a license to do research with IBM redid all their websites a few years ago, and finding information about systems older than Power7 has become ... challenging. They're ... uh, not going to respond to you. IMHO. TL;DR: Mr. Linimon is probably right. In... 1998? I bought a 43P 133 "Carolina" system off Ebay, with the intention of learning AIX. At the time, IBM had offered v4.3.2 "free" for educational use, so I was confident that I would have no problem obtaining license and media. There was no link or instructions in that announcement page on their website to actually avail myself of the offer, so I called IBM Sales, RS/6000 Group. No person in the RS/6000 sales group had ever heard of that promotional program. I logged about 15 hours on the phone with them, over the space of two weeks. EVERY conversation went like this: "AIX? What is one of your machines' serial number? We need that to access your support contract." Then "That RS/6000 is registered to ." "You bought it on *EBAY*???" "We don't SELL AIX. The license and media are included in your support contract." "What do you mean 'free for educational use'...?" I eventually located a manager who would give me an email address so that I could send this IBM employee, whose job was providing service and goods to RS/6000 customers, a link to the web page on ibm.com that described the Educational AIX Licensing Program. Two or 3 weeks later I received in the mail a 17-page contract detailing my obligation to give them a kidney and both pinky toes if I dared use my RS/6000 for profit. I signed it, had it notarized, and mailed it back. Two weeks after that I received a 6-page license document and a shiny, shiny set of AIX CDs from IBM. I swear this is no exaggeration. To date, I have never located another person who was able to get AIX media through that educational program. Doc
