Identifying LSI Logic IC

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Can anyone identify this IC?

https://imgur.com/a/CU7Cn8z

This is from an Omega VLF receiver. I don't see many custom parts within
this unit, but perhaps this is one?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Pro-Log M980 Programmer

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 11:50 Randy Dawson via cctalk 
wrote:

> I had a Data I/O 29B with a serial interface and I assume your Pro-Log is
> similar.
> Cabled up and baud correct you should get a menu on a CR with your host.
> Mine took an Intel or Motorala ASCI HEX string on power up without any
> commands or prompts.
> Randy
>

No menu on a Pro-Log. It's a very basic unit powered by an Intel 4004 or
4040.

The manuals on bitsavers do a very good job explaining how to use the 980
and 900, as Brent mentioned.

Kyle

>

Re: DEC pin

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 17:50 Fritz Mueller via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102682110
>
> Timely!
>
>   --FritzM.


Thank you! It was a hard thing to search for. I kept getting all of these
other results, for some odd reason... "Did you mean...?" No, actually I
didn't!

Kyle

DEC pin

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have a picture of the "I've been VAXinated" pin? I know I've
seen this pin before, probably at some VCF event.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: TC08 DECtape bootloader question

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 18:07 Rick Murphy via cctalk 
wrote:

> The instruction that's waiting on the done bit to be set is overwritten
> with a NOP while the bootstrap is being read.  This is common for
> bootstraps: minimal user-entered code that gets overwritten by the boot
> when it's being loaded into memory.
>
> You have to read the code to understand this. :)
>
> The setting of the WC to zero happens in the code I posted.
>

Rick, I think we're talking about two different bits of code.

The code I am referring to is here:

http://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/Eagle/projects/DEC/Mxxx/M847/m847/m847yc.pal

It does not get rewritten, at least not right away. It's at 07554, and the
first load happens at 07600, to get the rest of the bootloader code you're
referring to. There's another almost identical loader I've seen used by the
PDP-8/E Simulator for macOS, which is loaded at 0200 instead.

The handler makes some comments:

/BOOTSTRAP FOR DECTAPE MONITOR IS THE SAME AS FOR THE
/DEC LIBRARY SYSTEM, RL MONITOR AND POLY BASIC - OR JUST
/READ RECORD 0 INTO 7600 AND TRANSFER TO 7600 A LA DISK
/MONITOR SYSTEM ON DECTAPE

The code you're referring to has to get into memory somehow, and my
question involves this process, not afterward.

So, I think you're a step ahead here! :) I don't disagree with anything
you've said regarding the rest of the boot process, though.

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Re: TC08 DECtape bootloader question

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021, 09:35 Rick Murphy via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> You have to read the bootstrap code in the TC0x driver to understand this.
>

I agree with your assessments, but I'm referring to the first stage
bootloader: either your toggle-in or MI8E-based ROM bootstrap. In the case
of that, the PDP-8 is in a spin loop waiting for the first load of block 0
into 07600; the rest of the bootstrap in the driver isn't yet loaded in
core.

But you did answer the question that was bugging me, and that's the end
error flag getting set at the end of a block in single read mode. Nice,
thank you!

I'm still a bit suspicious of the handling of WC overflow in SimH, even
though, as you point out, it does not matter here. The difference it makes
for the toggle-in boot process is whether or not it loads unnecessary code
at 1, after WC and CA both are overwritten with zeros. Either way, the
first read will terminate, but with default SimH behavior, the read
terminates early, after writing a zero to WC.

In the 3-cycle break, WC is incremented in the first cycle. If a carry was
generated, the WC overflow flop is set. CA is incremented in the second
cycle. The actual data transfer happens in the third. Hence, overwriting
either WC or CA cannot affect either until the following cycle. So, writing
a zero to WC should not cause an overflow until 4096 breaks later.

Am I looking at this correctly?

Kyle

>

Re: TC08 DECtape bootloader question

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 7:19 PM Kyle Owen  wrote:

> However, it appears as though word count will be hit by the loading of the
> first block. In fact, my instrumented version of SimH says it's overwritten
> with a zero. If that's the case, it would seem as though the word count
> overflow flag will never get set. Not to mention, the current address will
> be updated next, causing data to be redirected to yet another position.
>

To continue this thought, it appears as though SimH does the following for
a read data break:
0. Increment WC
1. Increment CA
2. Compute memory address from the extended memory bits from the TC08 and CA
3. Store the data from the tape at the memory address specified from 2.
4. Check if WC equals zero, and handle that accordingly

>From what I can tell, both the PDP-8/E and the PDP-8/I set the WC overflow
based on the carry out from the adders...so if WC happens to be overwritten
with a zero, a carry out will never happen in the real hardware. In SimH,
the entire WC is tested and compared to zero. This behavior seems different.

Kyle

TC08 DECtape bootloader question

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

My understanding of the OS/8 TC08 bootloader (MI8-EC) is as follows:
0. Rewind tape
1. Set current address (07755) to 07600
2. Set word count (07754) to -0200
3. Read block 0 and wait for flag
4. Continue executing at 07600

However, it appears as though word count will be hit by the loading of the
first block. In fact, my instrumented version of SimH says it's overwritten
with a zero. If that's the case, it would seem as though the word count
overflow flag will never get set. Not to mention, the current address will
be updated next, causing data to be redirected to yet another position.

But according to SimH, a write to the current address, 07755, never
happens. How can this be?

Any help would be appreciated!

Kyle

Re: DECtape ancestry

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 16:13 Paul Koning  wrote

> Speculating here since I have no direct knowledge: the DECtape format
> allows read and write in either direction, while LINCtape only allows read
> and write forward.  The bidirectional I/O capability was part of DECtape
> format from the start, and I suspect the desire was to keep that.


What systems took advantage of the bidirectional nature?

Kyle

Re: DECtape ancestry

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Why did DEC not use the LINCtape format for the PDP-8? I assume maintaining
format compatibility between their low, mid, and high range systems was
important to them? I suppose there was no other good solution to
transferring large files across different DEC platforms than to use
magnetic tape...so I may have answered my own question here.

Kyle

Re: DF32?

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:38 PM Paul Koning via cctalk 
wrote:

> Sure, a generalization of Dave Gesswein's MFM emulator.  I was just
> looking the other day how practical it would be for such a device to do an
> RK05 emulation.  The answer seems to be: quite practical.
>

Dave made a DF32/DS32 emulator:
https://www.pdp8online.com/dfds32/emulator/index.shtml

Constructing an RK05 emulator would be very handy, for sure. I have toyed
with the idea for those that want to spin rust on a PDP-8 (but only have
12-sector packs) to have a timing converter within the RK05 that uses a PLL
to generate 16 sector pulses from 12, and can auto-detect when a real
16-sector pack is spinning (to pass the sector pulses through directly).
Has this been done?

 Kyle

PDP-8/I vs 8/E EAE

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Has anyone noticed a difference in DVI overflow behavior on the PDP-8/I EAE
versus the PDP-8/E EAE? The 8/E EAE claims to be 8/I compatible in Mode A,
and I think I agree, for the most part. At least, it's compatible for the
parts that matter.

When a DVI instruction results in overflow, the EAE immediately returns
with the link set. The results in AC and MQ seem to have no relevance, but
they appear to differ between the 8/E and 8/I.

For instance, running the 8/I MUY/DVI diagnostics under SimH fails due to
the following:

sim> lo maindec/maindec-8i-d0ba-pb.bin
sim> d sr 40
sim> g 201



DIVERRL   C(AC)  C(MQ)  C(MB)

PROB  0         

GOOD  1         
BAD   1      0001   

SCA   

HALT instruction, PC: 01512 (JMP I 1506)

The link is set, but obviously MQ and AC do not match.

Running the same diagnostic on an 8/I works fine.

I can't imagine a scenario outside of diagnostics where this behavior would
impact the software, but it does seem curious nevertheless that the DVI
approach to handling overflow differs slightly between EAEs on the 8/I and
8/E.

Kyle

IBM System/370 turns 50 years old

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Happy birthday to the 370! Looks like it was released to the press on 30
June 1970.

https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PR370.html

Kyle

Re: Game Of Life, John H. Conway

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 14:15 Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Seeing that video makes me want to play around with game of life again.
> Once it came out in October 1970 Sci Am, we were all coding it but
> not nearly as much fun doing it as a batch FORTRAN job and having to
> enter cells on punched cards (at least we could run that initial game
> configuration card deck through a card printer to see if any errors).
>
> Last version I wrote was in PDP8 assembler to run on a TSS-8 which at
> least allowed one to see each generation on TTY, but slow.
>

I also wrote a version for the PDP-8; I was sure someone else had beat me
to it (an assembly version, that is), but I didn't find any versions online
other than for BASIC and FOCAL—neither of which supported very many cells
nor ran very quickly.

https://github.com/drovak/pdp8life

The version I wrote supports both VC8E and terminal outputs, both printing
and video terminals alike. It's a pretty big playing field, too, but it
runs quickly enough, I'd say. It'll run from OS/8 and supports initial
configuration, but I don't think I ever added support to initialize from
another file on disk; just TTY input, if I recall.

If anyone has more optimizations, feel free to submit a pull request!

Thanks,

Kyle

>

SWTPC SuperClock II board

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

In the midst of cleaning up, I came across this board. Can't seem to find
any info online about it. There's another board from another company, not
SWTPC, with the same name—apparently a timekeeping board for an Apple II.

https://imgur.com/a/j8pyqMZ

I assume this is a way to generate a composite video signal with the
current time displayed? Anyone have schematics or a parts list?

Thanks, and stay healthy!

Kyle

Re: Houston Computer Museum Warehouse Liquidation

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Have any list members seen the place in person?

Have any list members successfully bought anything yet?

I have tried reaching Thomas by email and phone, to no avail. Just
wondering if others have had similar challenges.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: plated wire memory

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019, 09:45 Nigel Johnson via cctalk 
wrote:

> I remember an IBM engineer talking about this at our ham radio club. The
> wire was coiled inside a drum and pulses were sent down the wire.  The
> 'read head' was  a magnetic pickup at the other end of the coil - and
> access time was however long it took the pulse to arrive at the other
> end.
>

You are describing delay line memory. Plated wire memory is more akin to
core memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plated_wire_memory

Kyle

>

Re: Vintage Computer Warehouse Liquidation

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Thomas,

I'm interested in anything HP, SGI, early Sun, and pre-VAX DEC. Do you have
any photos? What kind of condition is most of this stuff in? I've been
thinking about visiting Computer Reset with a box truck this fall. Think I
could stop by?

Many thanks,

Kyle


On Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 15:41 Thomas Raguso via cctalk 
wrote:

> This is my first of many posts that I will make about this sale.
>
> I am liquidating a large warehouse filled with vintage computers including
> Apple, DEC, IBM, Commodore, Tandy/Radio Shack, HP, and more. Many items are
> currently inaccessible due to large piles of junk and video games.
>
> So far, I have found:
>
> Apple Lisa 2
> Tandy 6000 HD
> IBM 5251 Keyboard
> MicroVAX 3900 (currently inaccessible)
> MicroVAX II (currently inaccessible)
> Cromemco System One
> Ohio Scientific Challenger 2p
> Lots of Apple II series
> IBM 5110
> Piles of VT100s
> Even more VT220, VT320
> Northstar Advantage
> Osborne 1
> Various Kaypros
> PC clones
> Commodore B-Series
> Just about every  kind of TRS-80
> IBM XT with monitor in box
> NeXT cube
> Almost every type of Macintosh
> Amigas
> IBM PS/2 P70
> HP 3000 (inaccessible)
> 1970s HP computers
> Boxes filled with Cromemco and Northstar manuals
> A pallet of 1980s PC clones (inaccessible)
>
> Heaps of CRT monitors
>
> Mechanical Keyboards
> At least 20 Apple Extended Keyboard II's
>
> I have barely scratched the surface of the warehouse, and will keep you
> updated when I find more items, or am able to move the large systems.
>
> The DEC terminals are not yet for sale, since I have not yet found the
> keyboards.
>
> I am not taking offers on the entire warehouse at this time.
>
> Please feel free to text me with questions
>
>
> Thomas Raguso
>
> (832) 374-2803
>

Re: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:06 PM Marc Howard  wrote:

> BTW, Genteq is a reputable brand.  It is the former GE capacitor division,
> hence the name Gen(eral Electric)teq(technology).
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:02 PM Marc Howard  wrote:
>
>> Amazon is your friend:
>>
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Capacitor-Motor-Quick-Connect-Snap/dp/B00HRNKI9Q/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?keywords=660v+capacitor+8+mfd=1568059220=gateway=8-2-fkmr0
>>
>> $13 bucks.  Cheep.
>>
>
Awesome! That's much cheaper than I was expecting. I'll make an update when
I get it installed. It is physically much smaller than the previous one, so
I'll have to come up with another mounting solution. Maybe I'll find some
material to wedge underneath the cap to make it around the same height,
assuming the width is the same; should be able to use the same mounting
brackets that way.

Kyle

Re: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:18 PM Mattis Lind  wrote:

> Mouser has CDE 8 uF 660 VAC. 11 are on order from the manufacturer.
>
>
> https://www.mouser.se/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/SFA66T8K475B-F?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu3dWSqd4Tl0A9wIZdhZWWRKQi0fpV8QTUDmNGSFUtTTQ%3D%3D
>
> I have replaced several  of these capacitors in  PDP-8, LA30, PDP-9.
>

Thanks! Someone else pointed me to Mouser as well. Was hoping to find
something in stock, but I guess I can wait and go with Mouser; after all,
the PDP-8/I has been waiting well over 30 years for a new capacitor!

Kyle

Re: Ferroresonant transformer supply repair

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 20:39 Guy Dunphy via cctalk 
wrote:

> >
> >We recently replaced the ferroresonant capacitor in a power supply on the
> CHM's
> >PDP-1. They do fail (thankfully, not often) - and they are not
> super-critical
> >as to value. If the one you're replacing has the same marked value, you
> should
> >be fine.
> >
>
> Yes, that's right. Find something with the same marked capacitance value.
> The rated voltage can be the same or higher.
>

I can't seem to find motor caps that meet the voltage spec of 660V. 8uF
doesn't seem like a problem, but the combination together isn't looking
good. Are there any specific vendors I should be looking at? My usual
suspect of DigiKey isn't looking good.

Thanks!

Kyle

>

Ferroresonant transformer supply repair

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Has anyone replaced the capacitor in a ferroresonant power supply with much
success? My current understanding is that the capacitor and transformer are
mated as a pair, so replacing just one of them would require careful
consideration.

The PDP-8/I I'm working on has a 704A in it, with a GE 8uF 660V capacitor.
It measures a couple of nF on my capacitor meter, and I was told by the
previous owner that it's dead.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SGI Personal Iris information

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Jul 14, 2019, 07:20 Patrick Mackinlay via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I'm currently working on emulating the 4D/20 in MAME, and looking for
> anyone who might have actual hardware, software or documents that might
> help.
>

Would photos of a 4D/35 be helpful as well? If so, I can probably do that
soon.

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Identifying some boards

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I picked up these boards many weeks ago, but haven't photographed them
until recently. Some of them are pretty disgusting, but some of the others
look alright.

Anyone have any idea what these came out of? Some are labeled Gould, others
are labeled Encore.

http://imgur.com/a/d9iK9qb

Thanks!

Kyle

Game of Life for PDP-8

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Back at VCF PNW, the subject of the Game of Life came up among some peers.
I recall messing with the BASIC version that supported 32 by 32 cells, and
there's also a FOCAL version that can do a whopping 11 by 11 cells.

This was simply not enough. So, I wrote my own implementation and came to
the realization of why more cells may not actually be better...it's
freaking slow!

https://github.com/drovak/pdp8life

I've improved the performance a bit using some caching and other tricks to
skip extraneous processing and twiddling of bits, but running in SimH for
lots of cellular life still takes a while. I haven't been able yet to try
it on the real hardware, and I can't say I'm looking forward to the speed
of the real machine either!

I'm working on a few new versions, which may get wrapped up into some
conditional assembly soon. One version will support both storage and
non-storage oscilloscopes with a VC8E. Another version may work to actually
reduce the size of the bitmap to increase speed; it's all a tradeoff, I
suppose.

Would love to hear some comments if anyone plays with this. And, if someone
significantly speeds things up while keeping the large playing field, I'll
be very happy to hear how!

Kyle

PDP-8: count number of set bits in a word

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Just wondering if anyone has come up with a fast way to count the number of
1s in a word on a PDP-8. The obvious way is looping 12 times, rotating the
word through the link or sign bit, incrementing a count based on the value
of the link or sign.

With a small lookup table, you can reduce the total number of loops by
counting multiple groups of bits at a time, but this of course comes with
the cost of using more memory. Any other suggestions?

Much appreciated,

Kyle

Re: Yes there is a PDP 10 front panel and Kenbak on Ebay

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019, 15:01 Al Kossow via cctalk 
>
> On 4/3/19 11:51 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
>
> > and no, a "best offer" of $250 for the front panel will not be accepted.
>
> because it's $125 lower than the last one that sold.
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/113190860596


That seems...remarkably cheap.

Re: PDP-8 signed overflow detection

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Overflow can be summarized in a few ways, such as: (sign of arg_a XOR sign
of arg_b == 0) AND (sign of arg XOR sign of result == 1)
or, less intuitively, the carry into the sign != the carry out of the sign.

My first inclination was to try the XOR approach, as that was most
intuitive to me. Using the "traditional" XOR macro on a PDP-8 is rather
inefficient, as you don't really care if you're XORing the rest of the
bits; only the sign bit. Since the sign bit is the high bit of the AC,
ignoring the link bit, simply adding the signs together results in an XOR
of the signs. However, you can't simply add the arguments, as you need to
ensure there are no carries into the sign bit; hence, ANDing one argument
with 04000 prevents any potential carries in.

I then realized that, when performing the addition with the link cleared,
the parity (i.e. XOR) of the link bit and the three sign bits will also
indicate overflow.

So, all this to say, here's my implementation:
/KYLE'S IMPLEMENTATION
SATADD, 0
CLA CLL
TAD ARGA
TAD ARGB
DCA SUM /NORMAL SUM
RAR /LINK TO SIGN BIT
TAD ARGA /SIGN OF LINK XOR SIGN OF ARGA
AND (4000
TAD ARGB /XOR SIGN OF ARGB
AND (4000
TAD SUM /XOR SIGN OF SUM
SMA CLA /OVERFLOW?
JMP NOPROB
TAD SUM /YES, GENERATE CORRECT CONSTANT
SPA CLA
CMA
TAD (4000
JMP I SATADD
NOPROB, TAD SUM /NO OVERFLOW, RETURN
JMP I SATADD
ARGA, 0
ARGB, 0
SUM, 0

Vince Slyngstad and I worked on this puzzle at VCF PNW this weekend quite a
bit, and I feel very compelled in declaring Vince the winner! Here's his
very elegant solution:
/
/ Saturation add
/
/ Add ARGA and ARGB, returning the sum in AC.  If integer overflow
/ occurs, return 3777 or 4000, depending on the sign,
/
SATADD, .-.
TAD ARGA / Get first operand
CLL RAL / Remember the sign
CLA / ...but not the magnitude
TAD ARGB / Get the second operand
SPA / Is it negative?
CML / Yes, add to sign(ARGA)
TAD ARGA / Add the rest of ARGA
SMA SNL / Link == sign == 0?
JMP I SATADD / Yes, we are done
TAD (4000 / Complement sign, also carry into L
SMA SNL / 00 => was 11
JMP RESTOR / No overflow, go restore sum and return
SMA CLA / Overflow.  Is the sum to be positive?
CMA / Yes, get -1
RESTOR, TAD (4000 / Form the correct result
JMP I SATADD / ...and return it
ARGA, .-.
ARGB, .-.

Vince's solution is 20 total locations; mine is 24. Excellent work, Vince!

All this to fix a ~45 year old bug in Spacewar! where a ship's velocity
overflows, causing the ship to "bounce" off of nothing.

Kyle

PDP-8 signed overflow detection

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

What is the shortest subroutine on a PDP-8 which will add two variables in
RAM and return the saturated sum (that is, returning 2047 or -2048 upon
overflow, otherwise the sum) in the accumulator?

Kyle

DECtalk-PC Schematic

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Hi all,

I recently got one of these DECtalk-PC ISA cards from eBay (
https://www.ebay.com/itm/183684666377, no affiliation with seller other
than a happy customer) and was wondering, does anyone have a schematic for
this?

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: Dumping contents from MC68701

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 15:52 Al Kossow via cctalk  it depends on the version of 68701
>
> P3 has no protection P5 does
>
> a P3 can be read with a Data I/O Unisite
>
> http://matthieu.benoit.free.fr/pdf/MC68705P5_Bootstrap_ROM_Listing.pdf
>
> The P5 is more involved. You put it into factory test mode, feed it a NOP
> instruction
> and it will output the rom data on the I/O pins.
>
> A variation of that will work on other parts in the series.
>

Thanks for the info! Pardon the naïve question, but will this procedure
work for the 701? Not sure the differences between in and the 705.

Kyle

>

Dumping contents from MC68701

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Has anyone been successful in dumping the EPROM contents from an MC68701?
As I understand it, this MCU requires executing a particular program from
external memory to access the internal EPROM, both for programming and
reading.

I will write a utility to dump the contents if necessary, but I am happy to
refrain from reinventing the wheel if a solution already exists.

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: SGI Personal Iris 4D/35

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 19:02 John Ball via cctalk  Hey Kyle.
> You can narrow things down a bit by removing the optional Z-buffer and
> additional bitplane memory (ZB3 and BP4). While that removes those two
> masses of memory out of the equation that still leaves the still massive
> amount of ZIPP base video memory. for the later Onyx systems I've only seen
> pinstriping when the video memory or supporting glue has been allowed to
> overheat. I can't recall if it tests the graphics as well but have you
> tried
> running the ide diagnostics in case that refines the error a little?
>
> -John
>

Thanks John. I'll give it a try with the extra memory removed. I noticed
some jumpers on the main graphics board. Will those need to change with the
removal of the extra memory?

Is the IDE the PROM diagnostics? If so, I didn't find it very interactive.
It probably ran for close to 30 minutes without doing much until the error.
Photos of the error are in the album. If there's another suite of tests
other than the confidence tests I can run, please let me know.

Is there a source listing for the PROM monitor? Maybe reviewing the
graphics test code would help me understand how to patch a more useful
error message when the graphics test fails.

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Hickok MEM-70 Core Memory Trainer

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Picked up this core memory trainer yesterday. Seems pretty obscure.

http://imgur.com/a/TIOvt7r

Has anyone seen one before? Would love to find some documents someday.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SGI Personal Iris 4D/35

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Here's some pictures of the system: http://imgur.com/a/NNA2xYq

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Bellmac 8 Tutor on ebay

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Bringing up a bit of an old thread here, as I just picked up one of these
yesterday. Typed in some example programs, which took far too long thanks
to a bouncy keypad. But hey, at least it works!

Were there any real applications for the MAC-8? Haven't been able to find
much.

Thanks,

Kyle

SGI Personal Iris 4D/35

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I've got a graphics issue in my 4D/35, and I suspect it's a VRAM chip. I've
got vertical lines appearing on the screen, but not everywhere on the
screen; that seems to hint at an issue with one buffer having bad memory.
It was especially evident in the flight simulator demo, where alternating
frames flashed with and without lines.

The ever helpful self test says, "ERROR: Failure detected in the
Electronics Module (graphics). press  to continue".

The system is equipped with the ZB3 and BP4 on a GR1.2.

How can I better diagnose this issue? There are so many RAM chips soldered
on these three boards. Tracking it down to a single chip sure would be
nice.

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: off topic - capatob - saratov2 computer Russsian pdp8? HELP

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Mon, Jan 7, 2019 at 8:51 AM Peter Corlett via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Thanks to inflation, $0.25 in 1972 is worth $1.51 now. Likewise, $1.25 has
> inflated to $7.54. So they're cheaper in real terms than they used to be.
>
> However, it's still not entirely comparable, as I suspect nobody's making
> 74-series chips any more so you're buying NOS. A modern equivalent would
> be a
> microcontroller, which start at well under a dollar.
>

Logic chips still have their uses, and are most certainly still being made.
You can still get 74LS parts, in a DIP package even:
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/SN74LS00N/296-1626-5-ND/277272

Note: it's an active production part, too.

Kyle

Re: music dec tapes? (paper)

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM allison via cctech 
wrote:

> Those were likely with a PDP12 or LAB-8 with DAC board.  The code
> actually is a roughly
> digital version of tones in 10 or 12 bit form by writing sequential
> words (waveforms) to
> the DAC.
>

Do you have any information on the AA01-A DAC that was used with the
PDP-12? I see in the PDP-12 System Reference Manual that it is capable of
supporting three channels, 12 bits each. It gives an example of one
instruction, 6551, which loads the first DAC. Is it safe to assume that
6552 and 6554 are the other instructions to load the other two DACs?

I see the AA50-A in the 1972 PDP-8 Small Computer Handbook has sequential
instructions for updating the DAC channels (up to 8).

AA05-A/AA07 use a more complex address/data method to address more total
channels, but that is listed in the Laboratory Computer Handbook as an
option on the Negibus.

>
> Of course everyone here forgets the First Philadelphia Computer Music
> Festival on vinyl from '78
> with samples of computer played music.  I run my copy on occasion just
> to remember being there.
>

I don't think this album has been forgotten; I have a copy, and I know
others with copies, too. It seems as though "Unplayed by Human Hands" (both
versions) are less well-known. I would like to work on getting the original
software archived, assuming it's still out there, as it ran on a Straight-8.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: music dec tapes? (paper)

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 17:48 allison  I don't think this album has been forgotten; I have a copy, and I know
> others with copies, too. It seems as though "Unplayed by Human Hands" (both
> versions) are less well-known. I would like to work on getting the original
> software archived, assuming it's still out there, as it ran on a Straight-8.
>
> ITs also on line.
>

The recordings, or the software? If you're referring to the latter, please
send a link! I know someone has a GitHub repository, but it's missing any
and all PDP-8 files.

Kyle

>

Re: music dec tapes? (paper)

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 18:23 Bill Degnan via cctalk  I have these, plays music over the radio
> b
>

Bill, which of these tapes do you have exactly?

I've checked and it would appear DECUS 8-152 is not intended to play over
the radio, but rather with a DAC (or two). I'm still working on fully
understanding it, but that's my conclusion thus far.

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Re: music dec tapes? (paper)

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 15:18 Adrian Stoness via cctalk  anyone seen these music tapes before i grabed  this trays for the oddnes of
> the content of these tapes? also apears to have the software to play them?
>
>
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Lot-of-15-digital-decus-Paper-Tapes-w-Case/273628629483?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
>
>
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Lot-of-8-digital-decus-Paper-Tapes-w-Case/273628539210?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
>
> would this be some weird synthy type thing?
> control points for the sound boaerd used for automation on some fancy desk?
> or somthing els?
>

Vince has a listing for some version of DECUS 8-152 on his website (
http://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/8-152/decus-8-152-lst.pdf).
I have reverse engineered it enough to have his version play a few songs.
However, it seems like there's a difference between the music tapes I have
and the listing he has.

I don't know what hardware was required of this software, but I suspect it
to be a DAC responding on address 055. This seems to match with an AA01
option.

Did you end up buying these tapes? I have digitized the music tapes I
bought from the seller and will post them soon. It would be excellent if
the buyer of this lot would do the same.

Musically,

Kyle

>

Re: WTD: 9 track open reel for PDP-11

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, Dec 27, 2018, 13:23 Jason T via cctalk  On Thu, Dec 27, 2018 at 11:17 AM W2HX via cctalk 
> wrote:
> > Does anyone have a (preferably working) 9-track drive that can be used
> with a PDP-11 (like a pertec interface) for sale? Willing to drive anywhere
> from Philly to Boston for one.
>
> A bit out of your range, but if we can figure out transport, I have an
> AT HP 9-track, with Pertec interface, that I've been trying
> to unload for years (they're heavy!)   It's yours if we can move it.
> It's clean and powers up and gets through self-test.  I have not had a
> compatible machine to actually read a tape on.
>
> I'm in 60070, near Chicago.
>

Hi Jason!

If this goes unclaimed, I'd be happy to give it a home. I've been trying to
find a time to get a few things from Jack Rubin too; not sure when that
will be yet. Probably after VCF SE.

I have a bunch of tapes from some Harris minicomputer that I'd like to
digitize at some point. I finally got around to digitizing the paper tapes.

Thanks!

Kyle

>

Re: OCR old software listing.

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 6:15 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 12/26/18 3:17 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> >
> > And TYPE the programs in again
>
> I've found that it's often the best course of action and consumes the
> least time overall.  You also have a better chance of understanding the
> code.
>

I'm doing this right now for DECUS 8-152. Yes, it certainly helps you
understand what the code is actually doing.

Kyle

Re: Another weird paper tape

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018, 15:16 Fred Cisin via cctalk  THEN, you insert that message a few characters at a time between words in
> Ed's posts.  He has cleverly been steganographically relaying the hidden
> message for a while.
>

Maybe the real data has to be read between the holes...!

Here's the tape reader that I found this reel in. Unfortunately I was not
able to rescue the reader...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Ow1Wo1rBQUVUk1alRqVGdRZHM/view?usp=drivesdk

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Re: Another weird paper tape

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018, 17:52 Paul Koning 
>
> > On Dec 23, 2018, at 6:24 PM, Kyle Owen via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> > I have another paper tape...this time, it's 7-channel.
> >
> > I dumped it and found that it has very, very little data on it.
> > ...
> >
> > The tape is dated 22 October 1958.
>
> Which country?  I know of 7 track tape (actually 7 tracks wide, rather
> than 8 track 1-inch tape with channel 8 unused) from Electrologica in
> Holland, and the date would be a bit early but possible.  But the data  you
> gave doesn't look like anything meaningful.
>

USA. It is indeed 7 tracks wide. I didn't realize that until I tried
dumping the tape today. First time I've come across 7-channel tape before.

I thought it might be for sequencing a test, perhaps, but I'm not certain.

Kyle

Another weird paper tape

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I have another paper tape...this time, it's 7-channel.

I dumped it and found that it has very, very little data on it.

Tape image here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kCiSiNuPvAPzBG0XCqBJiBoPhjmyvU21

Here's some of the first of the tape.

000 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
380 a0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
390 80 80 a0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
3a0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
3d0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 a0 80 80 80 80 80
3e0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
430 80 80 80 80 88 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
440 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
ca0 80 80 80 80 81 81 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
cb0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
00010d0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 81 81 80 80
00010e0 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
*
0001100 81 81 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001110 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001120 80 80 80 80 81 81 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001130 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001140 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 81 81 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001150 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80
0001160 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 81 81 80 80
0001170 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80

The tape is dated 22 October 1958.

Any ideas what this could have been used for?

The 8th channel is set since I read this on an 8-channel reader.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Unknown paper tape format

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I think I found some promising info...haven't read through it all yet:
https://ia801201.us.archive.org/23/items/DTIC_ADA038326/DTIC_ADA038326.pdf

Here's photos of the reel: https://photos.app.goo.gl/u4UdDYc1RxYGTSh99

I see mention of a SEL 8600 computer. I wonder if this is for the SEL, or
closer to the front-end?

Kyle

Unknown paper tape format

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I found a spool of mylar tape dated 23 March 1972, with "EARS" on it; best
I can tell, this was for the Experimental Array Radar System.

Image can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11VKKklor1QDyWCz0b3zVNj_I_vmt4oN4

Anyone have any clue as to the format? Here's the beginning of the tape:

000 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
*
060 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 40 40 40 08 e5
070 43 c1 40 5b 43 c1 40 dc 43 c1 40 5d 43 c1 40 5e
080 43 c1 40 df 43 c1 40 e0 43 c1 40 61 43 c1 40 62
090 43 c1 40 e3 43 c1 40 64 43 c1 40 f1 c2 c1 40 f2
0a0 c2 c1 40 73 c2 c1 40 f4 c2 c1 40 75 c2 c1 40 f7
0b0 c2 c1 40 45 43 c1 40 46 43 c1 40 c7 43 c1 40 c8
0c0 43 c1 40 49 43 c1 40 4a 43 c1 40 4c 43 c1 40 cb
0d0 43 c1 40 d5 43 c1 40 d6 43 c1 40 4a 40 c1 40 cd
0e0 40 c1 40 cb 40 c1 40 7f e0 c1 40 f2 45 c2 40 57
0f0 43 c1 40 58 43 c1 40 d9 43 c1 40 da 43 c1 40 6e

and the end:

0006400 45 c2 40 57 4c c1 40 5e 4c c1 40 f4 cb c1 40 e5
0006410 4c c1 40 fb cb c1 40 ec 4c c1 40 e0 7f 7f 40 40
0006420 40 c7 40 73 4c c1 40 7a 4c c1 40 c7 40 40 40 da
0006430 c8 c2 40 ef 57 c1 40 c1 cd c1 40 46 d0 d0 40 79
0006440 cd c1 40 d5 57 c1 40 4f cd c1 40 5d cd c1 40 c2
0006450 4c c1 40 6b cd c1 40 c8 cd c1 40 58 cb c1 40 df
0006460 cb c1 40 e6 cb c1 40 f2 cd c1 40 46 40 40 40 cd
0006470 40 40 40 4c 40 40 40 d5 d6 c1 40 d5 61 c1 40 40
0006480 61 c1 40 fb d3 c2 40 c7 ce c1 40 7f 57 c1 40 c2
0006490 cb c1 40 49 40 40 40 e3 d6 c1 40 f2 d6 c1 40 58
00064a0 57 c2 40 76 d9 c2 40 40 40 40 08 07 80 80 80 00
00064b0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
*
0006600 00 00 00 00 00 00

Would love to know what computer system this was running on.

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: Core memory emulator using non volatile ram.

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I've seen a lot of talk about memory technologies, but as far as I can see,
no one has offered any complete solutions.

One already exists, thanks to the efforts of Steve Lafferty, Vince
Slyngstad, and others.

http://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/32KOmnibus/32KOmnibus.php

Yes, it uses a battery. FPGAs and CPLDs are not needed (though a CPLD could
reduce all of the logic and drivers to a single chip, with the ATF1508).

Numerous Omnibus PDP-8 owners have these cards, and I swear by them in my
machines. I'd much rather keep a hefty load off of the power supply and
free up 11 card slots, especially in my 8/M.

Maybe with enough interest, Vince would consider doing another run of
boards.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: remove bad yelpMATERIAL INGEST. adams associates COMPUTER CHARACTERISTICS QUARTERLY 1963

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 14:00 ED SHARPE via cctalk 
> How to Remove Bad Yelp Reviews (and Report Fake Yelp Reviews)MATERIAL
> INGEST   ADAMS ASSOCIATES   COMPUTER CHARACTERISTICS QUARTERLY 1963
>
> HAVE ONE  A  LITTLE  CUTE  LOOKS  AS   NEW POCKET  GUIDEI   SEE ONE IN
> GOOGLE  SCANNED   FROM  67  SO DO NOT KNOW THIS  NEEDS TO BE  OR?
>
> ALSO  A  EAI  POCKET  CALENDAR  APPOINTMENT  REMINDER  BUTAS  NEW  NO
> FASCINATING NOTES  ALAS..
>
> ALSO A  67 STOCK HOLDERS AGENDA  SHEET.  PURPLEDITTO   REPRODUCED.
>

What does this even mean!?

>

Re: AMD Am8177 Datasheet

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 1:36 AM Randy Dawson  wrote:

> Let us know of any bipolar AMD am2900, anything in the am2900 Bipolar
> Microprocessor Family.
> 2900 demo board:
> http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/EVAL_Board_cropped_reduced.pdf
>

Guess I have a whole 8 bits of computing power!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vD33aMjVSvnRuWLR6

Kyle

Re: AMD Am8177 Datasheet

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 23:49 Marc Howard via cctalk  Kyle,
>
> Where did you find that part?  I designed the video stage of the AT Pixel
> Machine back in the late 80's using that part.  It was perfect for us as I
> had to access up to 16 cards worth of pixels in TTL and spit out a video
> rate stream in ECL to drive the lookup tables and the DACs.  Only time I've
> ever designed a backplane with active parts on it.
>

Very cool! I found this one in the bwtwo framebuffer for a Sun 3/60. They
didn't seem to use the chip in other Sun machines, far as I can tell.

Kyle

>

Re: AMD Am8177 Datasheet

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Gah...just found it.

http://www.bitsavers.org/components/amd/_dataBooks/1989_AMD_Personal_Computer_Products.pdf

Page 693 of the PDF.

Sorry,

Kyle

On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 11:30 AM Kyle Owen  wrote:

> Does anyone have a datasheet for an Am8177 shift register? Seems to be ECL.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

AMD Am8177 Datasheet

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have a datasheet for an Am8177 shift register? Seems to be ECL.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Documation card readers for sale

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 6:50 PM Curious Marc via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Interested in the Arduino interface too. Will save me some time. Has it
> been posted anywhere?
>
> Marc
>

Sorry it took me a while to get it. Here's the program, ca. 17 January 2015.

https://pastebin.com/uQED05Xk

Enjoy,

Kyle

Re: PDP-8/e

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Dec 8, 2018 at 12:36 AM Josh Dersch via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:29 PM Rod G8DGR via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
>
> > It can only do 110 baud !!
> >
>
> Unless you have an oddball SLU, this is not true -- what do you have
> installed?  The earlier M8650 and the later M8655 can both be jumpered for
> higher baud rates.
>

Maybe an M865? I don't remember if those have jumpers or not. I seem to
recall it being current loop only, though.

Kyle

Re: Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:46 AM Stefan Skoglund 
wrote:

>
> You have one the ECL one ie (i think) bwtwo.
>
> https://www.sun3arc.org/FEH/CPU/3_60.phtml


Ahh, so it's built onto the board itself. Cool. I'll see about what it
would take to convert it to something else; might be a good Verilog
project. Might see about using the project Al mentioned for inspiration.

Thanks!

Kyle

Re: Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Upon closer inspection, it appears as though I have no frame buffer. Drats.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ariFxb8xggERExkU9

Anyone have a spare that would work?

Thanks,

Kyle

Sun Monochrome TTL Monitors

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

What are people doing for early Sun monitor replacements? I've got a Sun
3/60 that I'd like to hook up to a modern monitor, but am unaware of any
means of doing so.

Thanks!

Kyle

Zapata Tormenta ISA card

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have a Zapata Tormenta card that they'd be willing to sell?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 9:50 PM  wrote:

>
> Ah cool. I was at a friend's brother's house on a work trip out to Silicon
> Valley. One of his friends was there, with something amazing running in
> QEMU. It was a work in progress, but he said that there were a lot of
> issues because QEMU was too accurate in emulating the MIPS procressors and
> in addition to this, there was bugs in his former employer's hardware that
> had software work-arounds in the real OS. So when trying to run that OS on
> the emulated system the accuracy worked against him.
>

Yikes! I've been thinking, since the Previous (NeXT) emulator works so
well, what would it take to turn it into a Sun emulator? I haven't looked
at the Previous source yet, but it seems like that would be a good starting
point.

>
> > Trying to build MazeWar results in:
> >
> > ld: Undefined symbol
> >   ___bb_init_func
> >   DREG_SEG
> > *** Error code 2
> >
> > Not sure yet what to look for, but the source does say it was tested on
> > SunOS 3.1 and 3.4. So, I am trying to compile it on something a bit
> later.
>
> Sun compiler I assume and not a GCC?
>

Yes, the Sun compiler. At some point, I'll see if I can get my 3/60 booted,
but I'm lacking the right SCSI cable, I think. I also don't know how well
SCSI2SD will work emulating a streaming tape device, if at all.

Does anyone have a 3/60 hard disk image of SunOS 3.4 or 3.5, by chance?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 9:14 PM  wrote:

> Since you said QEMU, you are emulating this? If on the real hardware, is
>
the NVRAM memory dead? Looks like it doesn't know what kind of hardware it
> is. Real hardware will loose nvram battery and need to be replaced and
> reprogrammed, or you can file it down and jumper a battery into it.
>

I was hoping to just emulate it for now to avoid potentially bad hardware,
but seems like I need to use the real hardware to avoid potentially bad
software! :)

The NVRAM is totally dead; I've been reloading the IDPROM contents each
time. I've already ordered replacement NVRAMs from China; we'll see how
they do. Otherwise, I'll be going with the filing/coin cell trick.

There is also probably a bunch of environment variables in the NVRAM as to
> the CD-ROM SCSI path and OS scsi path and stuff on the Sun. It's been a
> long time since Sun boxes for me, so unfortuantely I've forgotten a lot of
> it. But if it's all reset or non-existant it could be a source of issues
> if my memory is right (It definitely is on SGI hardware.)
>

Not sure; but, I can say, I've got SunOS 4.1.3 finally installed, and am
now looking at a sparse SunView desktop.

Trying to build MazeWar results in:

ld: Undefined symbol
   ___bb_init_func
   DREG_SEG
*** Error code 2

Not sure yet what to look for, but the source does say it was tested on
SunOS 3.1 and 3.4. So, I am trying to compile it on something a bit later.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Well, got the last problem solved rather quickly: I tried using 512 byte
sectors for the emulated CDROM instead of SCSI2SD's default of 2048 for a
CDROM, and that did the trick. Working my way through the SunOS 4.1.3
installation process now on the SS-20.

>
If anyone has some advice on how to get QEMU or TME working, I'd still be
all ears.

Thanks,

Kyle

NeXT Monitor Problem

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I've got a NeXTstation Turbo and a MegaPixel display; the computer boots
fine, but seems to complain of a failing hard drive.

The monitor works okay; slight burn in, but otherwise looks okay in terms
of the phosphor. However, something seems to be wonky with the horizontal
scan...the left edge is very wobbly.

Pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/azWHVuB

Before I open this up, does anyone have any suggestions on where to start?
I didn't see a NeXT section on Bitsavers.

I am aware of the dangers of CRTs and will be sure to discharge the anode;
I've worked on a few MDA monitors before.

Thanks!

Kyle

P.S. From the hard disk error message, would you agree it's failing? Would
this indicate total failure is imminent?

Re: How to work out unknown PSU replacement

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018, 16:56 Mike Stein  wrote:

>
> Neat trick; surprised I'd never heard of it before in my decades of
> trouble-shooting. Then again, at my advanced age and senility I might just
> have forgotten... ;-)
>
> Thanks!
> >
>

Hah! Probably also best to discharge the caps before proceeding; I could
imagine some major damage resulting if voltages were still present! :)

Kyle

>

Re: How to work out unknown PSU replacement

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 4, 2018, 16:23 Mike Stein via cctalk 
wrote:

>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Adrian Graham via cctalk" 
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2018 4:59 AM
> Subject: Re: How to work out unknown PSU replacement
> ...
> > Today I’ll break out the ’tin foil covered sponge’ method of tracing any
> other points on the board that I might have missed last night.
> ---
> "Tin foil covered sponge" ???
>

Connect one lead of the multimeter to some pin/net you want to trace. Then,
connect the other lead to a foil-covered sponge (or metallic brush) and
brush it over the PCB backside, stopping when you hear the continuity
alert. Not useful generally for big nets that connect everywhere, and not
very useful for SMT boards; good for through-hole stuff though.

Kyle

>

Action Computer Enterprise and ADES

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Anyone have any manuals or software for an ACE 1600? Or manuals for an ADES
hard drive? I've had this one in storage for a while, but it seems fairly
interesting and possibly complete.

http://imgur.com/a/KR83Okw

Thanks,

Kyle

VT320 Fonts

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone know of any more downloadable VT320 fonts and glyphs? This is
about all I could find at the moment.

https://vt100.net/dec/vt320/fonts

Trying to find some Cyrillic fonts so that Tetris looks right. I suppose I
can try to write my own, but that would take a good bit of effort to get it
looking right.

Also, is there a way to dump the existing font on a VT320 in the DRCS
format?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Floating point math in FORTRAN IV on PDP-8

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Mon, Sep 24, 2018, 05:59 Rick Murphy  wrote:

>
> Since it's (apparently) working for me, it seems like your FRTS.SV is
> probably a version with a bug in the EAE-disabled FP emulator. Note that
> getting the parts of the compiler right is hard, which is why the PiDP-8
> project has put a lot of work into building their OS/8 distro from known
> good parts, mostly starting from source.
> -Rick
>

Interesting; thanks for trying it. Do you have a link to the image you're
using? I'm using this one:
https://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/os8_html?act=dir;fn=images/os8/disk2.fortran.rk05;sort=none

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Re: Floating point math in FORTRAN IV on PDP-8

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:28 PM Rick Murphy via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> That seems like you have a mixed-up F4 compiler/runtime.
> On my system (SIMH) I get the same results, FPP enabled or disabled.
> Don't know how to enable/disable EAE on SIMH, unfortunately.
>
> What you're getting means that the compiler, runtime, and libraries are
> not from the same release.
>  -Rick
>

Hmm...I was using the exact same RK05 image in both SIMH and the real
machine.

I've been informed that "set cpu noeae" will disable the EAE.

Just tried it with that...and there's the problem. No FPP or EAE seems like
a bad combination for running FORTRAN IV code that does any bit of math
operations.

>From SIMH (with EAE and FPP disabled):

.R F4
*FLOAT/G$
1.021.020.00
2.021.310.693147
3.021.2247471.098614
4.022.021.386296
5.025.7981761.609439
6.024.0152021.791761
7.023.5222111.837092
8.012.61   -1.920560
9.022.121345   -1.802777
   10.082.236078   -1.697417
   11.072.345213   -2.130667
   12.122.449492   -1.515095
   13.112.549511   -1.141335
   14.103.331171   -1.469765
   15.093.338015   -1.037061
   16.084.022.772591
   17.074.1231072.833214
   18.124.2426422.890373
   19.114.3589002.967808
   20.10   11.5963572.995733
   21.09   10.1501883.122650
   22.089.1886972.562484
   23.138.5164582.604795
   24.128.0304023.178056
   25.117.6710243.206363
   26.107.4015723.551816
   27.107.1981193.612231
   28.157.0444203.223386
   29.146.9290631.967658
   30.136.8438003.656090
   31.126.7825153.713244
   32.114.0001213.465738
[snip]

Maybe someday I'll delve into why it doesn't play nicely with such math
without EAE and FPP.

So, in summary, either EAE or FPP (or both) works fine. Without at least
one, don't count on any floating point math to be right (based on my
limited assessment).

Surely this must've been known about 40+ years ago...right?

Kyle

Re: Manual for Documation TM200 punched card reader

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 9:39 AM Guy Dunphy via cctalk 
wrote:

> By coincidence, today I started evaluation of a punched/optical card
> reader.
> Model TM200, made by Documation Inc.
>
> Naturally I have zero information on it so far.
> Does anyone know where I'd find a service manual or schematics?
>

Did you check Bitsavers already?

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/documation/

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Floating point math in FORTRAN IV on PDP-8

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 19:46 Michael Zahorik  wrote:

> Kyle, I have not run my machine since March. Summer is car season. But I
> thought that maybe I could run this little program quickly. My PDP8E
> started up, loaded the RIM and SERIAL DISK then OS/8 ran. Everything looked
> good, BUT.. something is wrong with my FORTRAN 4. Programs seem to
> compile, but I can't even run a simple test program that prints out
> whatever I enter from the TTY. Something has gone south. Anyway, I'm not
> familiar with the command FLOAT(). Do I have to have floating point
> hardware to use this? Well either there is something wrong with my
> machine or more likely with my FORTRAN software or even more likely
> operator error (me). So many times after a long summer I have to re learn
> most of what I learned last winter. Kinda of like when I was in school
> after summer vacation.
>
> Mike Zahorik (414) 254-6768
>

Since you're running SerialDisk...did you disable the SerialDisk interrupt,
or are you running a new enough version to do so?

If FRTS hangs when executing, that would be one possible explanation. FRTS
is only smart enough to check the interrupts it knows about; the aux TTY
interrupt is apparently not handled.

Thanks!

Kyle

Floating point math in FORTRAN IV on PDP-8

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

At VCF MW this past weekend, I was playing around with an FPP8/A stuffed
into a PDP-8/M with a fan removed. This hex-wide two-board set will happily
work in a quad-wide backplane, as it needs no signals that an 8/A would
otherwise provide.

I wanted to benchmark the FPP8/A with the software emulation that FORTRAN
IV supposedly does. Mind you, I also don't have an EAE in mine, so software
emulation for integer multiplication/division would also be used.

I tried running a simple program to print some natural logs and square
roots, which ran quite well with the FPP8/A in place.

Without the FPP8/A...all of the results were wrong. Significantly. Negative
numbers in many cases. No clear pattern as to what it's doing.

Would anyone be able to try my program on some other real hardware (or
another emulator) to verify? With and without EAE would also be desirable.
I'm not sure how to disable the EAE in SIMH, else I'd try that too.

Here's what SIMH looks like with my program:

PDP-8 simulator V4.0-0 Currentgit commit id: d35b8725
sim> at rk0 disk2.fortran.rk05
sim> b rk

.TYPE FLOAT.FT
  DO 50 I=1,100
  F = FLOAT(I)
  G = SQRT(F)
  H = ALOG(F)
  WRITE(4,100) F,G,H
50CONTINUE
100   FORMAT(' ',F12.6,F12.6,F12.6)
  END

.R F4
*FLOAT/G$
1.021.020.00
2.021.4142150.693147
3.021.7320531.098614
4.022.021.386296
5.022.2360701.609439
[snip]
   98.019.8994954.584968
   99.009.9498744.595121
  100.23   10.084.605171

.

Much appreciated,

Kyle

Re: Unknown US manufacturer - try again

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018, 23:03 Kelly Leavitt via cctalk 
wrote:

> Is that a Control Logic logo? page 3-34 of this document:
>
>
> https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/05/155/5155759.pdf


Nice work, detective! Even has the same model number prefix on the card.

Kyle

>
>

Re: VCF Midwest seller's experience?

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:45 PM, John Foust via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
> I'm thinking of reducing my collection by bringing items to VCF Midwest.
> I attended once six or seven years ago.
>
> Of course a great deal depends on what I'm selling, so I'll build a list.
>
> Possibles include Micro PDP-11, Microvax II, Vaxstations, Kaypro 1,
> CBM, Amiga, Atari, Apple, some S-100 boards.
>
> Is there anyone here who sold at a previous VCF Midwest?  How did it go?
>
> If there's only 150 attendees, is selling more like exhibiting?
> Ideally I'd like to come home with an empty van.
>

Depending on your prices, I think you'll do very well. There have always
been a good number in attendance, and those items should be very desirable
for many attendees (myself possibly included).

Kyle

Re: Weird Lear-Siegler ADM-3A board

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 12:52 Eric Smith via cctalk 
wrote:

> Sure, if you've got them handy, I'll try compiling them with FPC. Are you
> willing to release them as open source?
>
> Do you have any actual NS405/NS455 code that would be of interest?
>

I have this development board with an NS405 on it. Checked through my docs
and don't seem to have anything for it. Would dumping the EPROM be of
interest?

http://imgur.com/a/zYJvN5B

Thanks,

Kyle

>

Re: Motorola EXORciser M6800 System

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Thomas B via cctech 
wrote:

>
> Now to my question. The vintage computer forum at
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-44638.html mentioned some
> interesting manuals. Archive.org has some manuals, Bitsaver does not have
> manuals about the M6800 development system.
> If someone already owns scanned manuals to the following list
>
> M6800 Basic Interpreter Reference Manual
> M6800 Macro Assembler reference Manual
> M68SFDU Exordisk 11/111 Disk `Drive Unit Maintenance Manual
> M6800 Exorciser 11 User's Guide
> M6800 Exorciser User's Guide
> MEX68PP1 PROM Programmer Module Supplement M6800 Exorciser User's Guide


Apologies if you already know about these, but Bitsavers did fairly
recently split some of the stuff from /pdf to /components.

http://bitsavers.org/components/motorola/6800/exorciser/

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Modifying microcode

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 12:05 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 05/30/2018 08:19 AM, Kyle Owen via cctalk wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm thinking about trying to find a microcoded architecture to play with
>> before I design something around the Intel 3000 series.
>>
> Intel 3000?  WHY!
>

Well, the Tesla clones were cheap and readily available on eBay! :)

>
> I'd get an FPGA development board and download Xilinx's webpack software.
> It would not take real long to design the basic microcode engine, and then
> you could develop some application microcode in parallel with the hardware,
> adding whatever feature to the hardware you needed when the need came up in
> the microcode.


Yup, I've played around a lot with my Basys 3 board. But I like the idea of
writing microcode for an existing design (one that has a software
simulation as well as real hardware would be preferable), even though it
could likely run much faster on an FPGA.

>
> I've got a MicroVAX 3800, so I suppose I could run MICRO2 to assemble the
>> aforementioned microcode. But then what? I assume PALs would have to be
>> burned to implement the new microcode. Or is it more complicated than
>> that?
>>
>> PALs?  I don't think the 3800 microcode was in PALs.  I think it was in
> the CPU chip.  There may have been a patch array that allowed a very small
> number of microcode words to be overridden.


Yes, you appear to be correct; it's all internal.

Kyle

Re: Modifying microcode

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:34 AM, Camiel Vanderhoeven <
camiel.vanderhoe...@vmssoftware.com> wrote:

> The microcode for the MicroVAX 2 (for which the MICRO2 assembler was used)
> and the CVAX (which is the CPU in your 3800) is implemented as a mask ROM
> on the CPU chip itself. No way to change it, and no way you can use MICRO2
> to assemble the microcode for the CVAX.


Gotcha. Which small VAXes had external ROM/PALs for microcode store?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Modifying microcode

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 8:51 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > From: Kyle Owen
>
> > I do have an 11/45, though... so with this modification, I suppose
> one
> > could have some fun:
>
> That's for the -11/40 - very different machine, one couldn't use the same
> technique on the /45; the /40 is prepared to accept additional ucode on
> additional CPU boards, that's how the EIA works:
>

Ah, I got confused! Thanks for the clarification! So the same technique
would work on the 11/35, then?

Kyle

Modifying microcode

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Has anyone attempted to reassemble and update the microcode on a MicroVAX?

Seems like there's enough stuff here to possibly do it:
http://simh.trailing-edge.com/semi/ucode/

I'm thinking about trying to find a microcoded architecture to play with
before I design something around the Intel 3000 series.

I've got a MicroVAX 3800, so I suppose I could run MICRO2 to assemble the
aforementioned microcode. But then what? I assume PALs would have to be
burned to implement the new microcode. Or is it more complicated than that?

I don't have a PDP-11/60, unfortunately. I do have an 11/45, though...so
with this modification, I suppose one could have some fun:
http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3241=compsci

Thanks,

Kyle

Tennecomp

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Al uploaded some of my Tennecomp docs onto Bitsavers:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/tennecomp/

He also already had some brochures, which are very interesting as well.

Anyone else have some Tennecomp stuff? I've got more stuff to scan,
including a bunch of schematics (size C paper, for the most part), as well
as a few other manuals I believe.

I'd be curious to hear any of their history, especially because of their
location in Oak Ridge, TN.

I will also photograph some of my Tennecomp things (my Minidek, some
Omnibus boards, etc.) at some point.

Thanks,

Kyle

P.S. My Minidek came with some carts, but the pressure pads are all rotted.
A cursory glance online didn't turn up any source of replacement pads in
stock for Fidelipacs/Stereo-Paks. Anyone have any suggestions, or tips on
making your own?

Re: Unknown CDC unit , looks like a drum memory ?

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:11 AM, geneb via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Thu, 17 May 2018, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 May 2018, geneb wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>> OK  I  see there is a  mix  of  photos in this  directory!
 some  tape  reader  some  drum  2  separate  topics.


>>> Ed, I don't know if you (or anyone else) can see this, but there's two
>>> junk characters at the end of every word you write.  I see it in Alpine and
>>> it makes your text nearly unreadable. :)
>>>
>>
>> I use Alpine, too, but I only see two spaces after each word, but yes, Ed
>> has the talent to write illegible postings ;-)
>>
>
> Understatement of the century. :)  It varies. Sometimes it's interspersed
> with garbage, sometimes it's multiple spaces.


Sometimes it's ALL CAPS. Maybe Ed has a Model 26 Teletype hooked up in lieu
of his computer's keyboard?

Kyle

Re: Intel 3000 series

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 8:16 PM, dwight via cctalk 
wrote:

> I'm not sure how much good a 2900 assembler would be for a 3000 series
> part. The 2900 has an address controller more like a typical micro
> computer, while the 3000 is more like playing a game of chess.
>

I can certainly attest to the 3000 being like chess after pouring over the
documentation; the microcode is laid out in a (possibly 3D) matrix, with 32
rows, 16 columns, and perhaps multiple pages. The conditional jumps only
allow certain destinations, like jumping to row 0, jumping somewhere in the
current row or column, jumping to an even/odd column depending on a flag,
etc. It can get quite confusing!

Kyle

Re: Intel 3000 series

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 2:47 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

>
> Signetics also had a microassembler for the 3000 series, "Signetics Micro
> Assembler", also written in FORTRAN, and not compatible with CROMIS.
>

Well, maybe that'll turn up if CROMIS doesn't.

>
> If CROMIS doesn't still exist, I'd suggest AMDASM on CP/M. It's on
> Bitsavers. It is a general-purpose metaassembler, not in any way
> specialized for AMD parts (e.g., 2900 series).
>

I assume it's one of these? http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/AMD/AM29/

Any tips on how to get it running in SimH or the like? I don't see any text
file describing the system or format.

>
> Some time ago I started working on an AMDASM clone written in Python 3,
> but it's not yet far enough along to be useful.
>

Sweet! I wonder if there is enough in the way of microcoded stuff that a
microdisassembler wouldn't be handy as well. Does something like that
already exist?

Kyle

Intel 3000 series

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have any software for developing for the Intel 3000 series? I
bought some parts on eBay and am contemplating a bit-slice PDP-8 or DG Nova
for fun.

Bitsavers has some 3000 series manuals, but I can't seem to find any "bits"
of software. Looks like CROMIS is the cross microprogram assembler, which
looks like it would've run on an MDS-800.

Apparently the CROMIS sources are in Fortran IV, and provide both XMAS and
XMAP, the cross microassembler and a programming file generator,
respectively.

Anyways, if anyone has any bits of Intel 3000 development software or
simulators, I would be very interested in checking them out.

Thanks!

Kyle

GDB front-end for SimH

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Has anyone made a GDB front-end for SimH? Just curious. Seems like it could
be an interesting way to tie an IDE to SimH, if one were inclined.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Identifying an aluminum panel

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

The size is just large enough to fit in a 19" rack. It's also possible that
I don't have what it goes to.

Here are more panels to puzzle over:

http://imgur.com/a/8nJ5I

In related news, I am missing the bottom panels for an RK05J. Never got it
with the unit I picked up, nor the cards. I've been slowly accumulating
cards, but I'm not quite there yet. It's in otherwise nice shape. Not sure
what happened in its former life.

Kyle

Identifying an aluminum panel

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I feel like I should know what this panel goes to...I found it in my garage
when cleaning up. Any ideas?

http://i.imgur.com/u4LMNqE.jpg

Thanks,

Kyle

Identifying vacuum tube module

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Anyone knows what these go to?

https://imgur.com/a/CpxLs

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Thank you for the compliments! I'm looking forward to getting it going.

Any idea what the model (FIO) indicates?

Trying to locate some repair manuals and tips. Anything else I should look
for other than what's on Bitsavers?

The unit powers up and types with a few keys slow to act or return.
Carriage return doesn't latch when it gets to the left margin. Column 4 of
the punch is stuck on. Reader seems to work fine.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I ended up going with PakMail and was not disappointed. It arrived safe and
sound yesterday, and though the cost of shipping was almost as much as the
unit itself, I felt much better about paying a little more to make sure it
arrived without damage.

Pictures are here: https://imgur.com/a/xW480

Looking forward to getting it going!

Thanks for the suggestions,

Kyle

Re: PDP8/e programmers consoles

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 20:58 allison via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 03/16/2018 08:28 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
> > So the PDP8/e used the KC8-EA programmers console which has
> > incandescent indicator lamps and the PDP8/f used the KC8-FL
> > programmers console which has LED indicator lamps.
> Wrong.  The 8f uses the same as the 8e.  It was the 8m that had the
> LED console.  If memory serves it was date of design that influenced it.
>

I have seen several 8/f systems that have LEDs, for what it's worth. I can
only imagine DEC was transitioning the 8/m and 8/f to take LEDs instead of
incandescents.

>
> I can be certain as I have an 8f built in 1973.  I've since moded it to
> take bright yellow LEDs as lamps are not easy to find and annoying
> to replace.  If I care to I can put the lamps back.  Since I put
> operational
> over absolute faithful its better as is, less digging in the box.
>

The bulbs are still available on Mouser. I've ordered a bunch for my 8/e
and have been very happy with them.

http://so-much-stuff.com/pdp8/repair/bulbs.php

>
> However its possible to swap the panels, I tried it once and it pass diags
> and worked fine.  Didn't like the red.
>

I've found that my LED 8/m is very hard to read, as the LEDs are very dim.

>
> >
> > Another console question...
> >
> > Has anyone ever seen a PDP8/i style console for the PDP8/e? Looking at
> > the way the PDP8/e console functions, it should be possible to time
> > multiplex all the register to the data bus so they are all visible at
> > once when the machine is halted.
> No and can't!   The 8i (nor the 8L) was not omnibus.
>

I think he's aware (hence "style").

Kyle

>

Re: AlphaServers

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

So, B-Cache is a common failure; any idea what specifically is failing
about it?

I've got a 1000A, but its been years since I've tried booting it. It was
successfully booting when I last tried it, however. I think I've got Tru64
installation media somewhere around here, too...

Kyle

Re: AlphaServers

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Several people have now mentioned they have dead Alphas. What is generally
failing about them?

Kyle

Is livingcomputers.org down?

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

I'm not able to load Living Computer's website. Anyone else?

Kyle

Re: Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

The more quotes I get regarding shipping, the more I'm thinking to just
drive the 1300 miles (one way) and pick it up myself. I'd rather nothing
bad happen to it, as insurance money can't replace the unit (easily).

Any recommendations on finding a private carrier? It's in Colorado.

Kyle

Shipping a Flexowriter

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Does anyone have any tips on preparing a Flexowriter for shipping? Any
thoughts as to crate vs. pallet?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Looking for Heath H-29 operation manual and schematic

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Feb 5, 2018 07:02, "dwight"  wrote:

I expect to be at the PNW VCF. If Al isn't going up there I can take them
and give then to Al. We are in yelling distance ( almost ) of each other.

Dwight


Only issue is I'm already in Portland visiting other collectors before the
show. :\

Kyle