[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On Oct 31, 2022, at 11:45 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > > Thank you Rich for shedding light on this. Most of it makes sense to me, > but the secrecy part where you weren't allowed to talk to those still at > the museum is weird. I can't see any possible commercial reason for > preventing former engineering staff to talk with their former colleagues or > replacements. If anything you would think that any new staff would be > encouraged to talk to the engineers who left to benefit from their > experience. As I said this appears to be rather strange. I think you have it backwards: The way I read Rich's message, former LCM+L staff can talk to each other -- they can't really prevent that! -- but anyone still on at LCM+L can't talk to them about LCM+L (or presumably the public). That's fairly standard for a company; if I were to leave my employer, my former colleagues wouldn't be able to talk to me about current internal goings-on there because I'm a civilian. (We could certainly talk about anything else.) It's a bit weird for an educational/cultural institution though. -- Chris
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On Oct 31, 2022, at 4:31 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > > Tour guides and front desk personnel were immediately let go, because it was > clear that it would be several months, up to a year, before we could open > again. Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook etc. were willing to pay all of the ancillary on-site staff (like the people work at their coffee bars) their regular wages through the pandemic even when nobody was allowed in the offices. LCM+L, being owned by a billionaire's foundation, could have chosen to do that too. > Professional museum staff (curator, educational coordinator, etc.) were > retained for a short while, to wind things down. They and the entire engineering staff should have been kept on until the museum could reopen, doing whatever work they could remotely, and should still be working there now. That they weren't shows how little the foundation cares for the things Paul Allen cared about. While I prefer the way LCM+L made working systems available to the public over the CHM's mostly-static "behind a velvet rope" approach, CHM has turned out to be the better institution since they at least kept people on. > All of the engineers, which the exception of the manager of the department, > were laid off as of 1 July 2020. None of us was allowed to return to the > museum at any future time, and no one associated with the mothballed museum > was > allowed to talk to any of us. Disgusting. Good luck to LCM+L hiring anyone with real skills for passion rates if they ever actually do try to reopen. -- Chris
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 21:50:42 -0700 > From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk > I'm hoping Rich Alderson will pipe in and give us the actual story as to > what's going on with the LCM and its collection, but there's a possibility > that he may be legally constricted from giving comment at this time. > Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 15:31:43 +0800 > From: Tom Hunter via cctalk > The Internet is wonderful for misinformation and a good laugh. > Here even Paul Allen's sister Jody can morph into Paul's wife.:-) Yeah, I was going to correct that ;-) > Rich Alderson please provide the LCM facts if you can to stop the silly > rumours. First, let me thank Sellam and Tom for inviting me to comment on this topic. LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020, at the height of the initial pandemic (in the sense that it had become clear that the Covid-19 virus was not a passing thing), because our entire mission was to make possible actual physical contact between visitors to the museum and vintage computing engines of various stripe. There was no way to allow visitors to continue to touch all the hardware which would protect both visitors and the equipment. Tour guides and front desk personnel were immediately let go, because it was clear that it would be several months, up to a year, before we could open again. Professional museum staff (curator, educational coordinator, etc.) were retained for a short while, to wind things down. The engineers were put to work winding things down: Creating power-down-bring-up documentation, backing up software on those systems for which that was necessary, and generally making it possible to close up shop with an eye to opening again in a year (the target period). This project was the response to the original order simply to turn everything off. We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it had taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could plan on a month of restoration per month of down time, before the museum could be reopened after the decision was made to do so. All of the engineers, which the exception of the manager of the department, were laid off as of 1 July 2020. None of us was allowed to return to the museum at any future time, and no one associated with the mothballed museum was allowed to talk to any of us. All of that is by way of saying that I have no information on the internal state of the collection, or of the museum which we built on it. As for the status of the collection: While we built the museum, there was a private foundation set up which acquired items for the collection, generally by purchase. After 5 years of successful operations, with year over year increases in visitor counts, ongoing relationships with several school districts for instructional field trips, and worldwide acclaim, the decision was to taken to move to a 501(c)(3) public charity. This transition was under way when Paul died suddenly; that placed things into limbo because the transition was incomplete, and the estate could not do things that he could have done in person. That's as much as I know. Rich Alderson
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Thank you for sheding some light on what transpired. Regards, Pontus On 2022-11-01 00:31, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: First, let me thank Sellam and Tom for inviting me to comment on this topic. LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020, at the height of the initial pandemic (in the sense that it had become clear that the Covid-19 virus was not a passing thing), because our entire mission was to make possible actual physical contact between visitors to the museum and vintage computing engines of various stripe. There was no way to allow visitors to continue to touch all the hardware which would protect both visitors and the equipment. Tour guides and front desk personnel were immediately let go, because it was clear that it would be several months, up to a year, before we could open again. Professional museum staff (curator, educational coordinator, etc.) were retained for a short while, to wind things down. The engineers were put to work winding things down: Creating power-down-bring-up documentation, backing up software on those systems for which that was necessary, and generally making it possible to close up shop with an eye to opening again in a year (the target period). This project was the response to the original order simply to turn everything off. We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it had taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could plan on a month of restoration per month of down time, before the museum could be reopened after the decision was made to do so. All of the engineers, which the exception of the manager of the department, were laid off as of 1 July 2020. None of us was allowed to return to the museum at any future time, and no one associated with the mothballed museum was allowed to talk to any of us. All of that is by way of saying that I have no information on the internal state of the collection, or of the museum which we built on it. As for the status of the collection: While we built the museum, there was a private foundation set up which acquired items for the collection, generally by purchase. After 5 years of successful operations, with year over year increases in visitor counts, ongoing relationships with several school districts for instructional field trips, and worldwide acclaim, the decision was to taken to move to a 501(c)(3) public charity. This transition was under way when Paul died suddenly; that placed things into limbo because the transition was incomplete, and the estate could not do things that he could have done in person. That's as much as I know. Rich Alderson P. S. After the layoff, I looked for work for a few months, with nary a nibble. I've officially been retired for tax purposes since September 2021.
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Thank you Rich for shedding light on this. Most of it makes sense to me, but the secrecy part where you weren't allowed to talk to those still at the museum is weird. I can't see any possible commercial reason for preventing former engineering staff to talk with their former colleagues or replacements. If anything you would think that any new staff would be encouraged to talk to the engineers who left to benefit from their experience. As I said this appears to be rather strange. On Tue, 1 Nov 2022, 7:31 am Rich Alderson via cctalk, wrote: > First, let me thank Sellam and Tom for inviting me to comment on this > topic. > > LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020, at the height of the > initial pandemic (in the sense that it had become clear that the Covid-19 > virus > was not a passing thing), because our entire mission was to make possible > actual physical contact between visitors to the museum and vintage > computing > engines of various stripe. There was no way to allow visitors to continue > to > touch all the hardware which would protect both visitors and the equipment. > > Tour guides and front desk personnel were immediately let go, because it > was > clear that it would be several months, up to a year, before we could open > again. Professional museum staff (curator, educational coordinator, etc.) > were > retained for a short while, to wind things down. The engineers were put to > work winding things down: Creating power-down-bring-up documentation, > backing > up software on those systems for which that was necessary, and generally > making > it possible to close up shop with an eye to opening again in a year (the > target > period). > > This project was the response to the original order simply to turn > everything > off. We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the > dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it > had > taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could > plan > on a month of restoration per month of down time, before the museum could > be > reopened after the decision was made to do so. > > All of the engineers, which the exception of the manager of the department, > were laid off as of 1 July 2020. None of us was allowed to return to the > museum at any future time, and no one associated with the mothballed > museum was > allowed to talk to any of us. > > All of that is by way of saying that I have no information on the internal > state of the collection, or of the museum which we built on it. > > As for the status of the collection: While we built the museum, there was > a > private foundation set up which acquired items for the collection, > generally by > purchase. After 5 years of successful operations, with year over year > increases in visitor counts, ongoing relationships with several school > districts for instructional field trips, and worldwide acclaim, the > decision > was to taken to move to a 501(c)(3) public charity. This transition was > under > way when Paul died suddenly; that placed things into limbo because the > transition was incomplete, and the estate could not do things that he could > have done in person. > > That's as much as I know. > > Rich > Alderson > > P. S. After the layoff, I looked for work for a few months, with nary a >nibble. I've officially been retired for tax purposes since > September 2021. >
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On 10/31/2022 6:31 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: ... LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020... This project was the response to the original order simply to turn everything off. We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it had taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could plan on a month of restoration per month of down time... Rich, would you describe a little about why this would be? Why would a shutdown (properly done) be so difficult to recover from? Thank you- -John Singleton
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Chuck, They did close to the public for a while, in around June of 2020, But they re-opened a while back now, and are back on their standard Sunday open to public day sched. Mark -Original Message- From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Monday, October 31, 2022 4:47 PM To: Rich Alderson via cctalk Cc: Chuck Guzis Subject: [cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum) On 10/31/22 16:31, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > > That's as much as I know. I'm a bit curious if the Connection Museum managed to stay open during the Plague. Does anyone know? -- --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On 10/31/22 16:31, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote: > > That's as much as I know. I'm a bit curious if the Connection Museum managed to stay open during the Plague. Does anyone know? -- --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
First, let me thank Sellam and Tom for inviting me to comment on this topic. LCM+L closed its doors to the public in March 2020, at the height of the initial pandemic (in the sense that it had become clear that the Covid-19 virus was not a passing thing), because our entire mission was to make possible actual physical contact between visitors to the museum and vintage computing engines of various stripe. There was no way to allow visitors to continue to touch all the hardware which would protect both visitors and the equipment. Tour guides and front desk personnel were immediately let go, because it was clear that it would be several months, up to a year, before we could open again. Professional museum staff (curator, educational coordinator, etc.) were retained for a short while, to wind things down. The engineers were put to work winding things down: Creating power-down-bring-up documentation, backing up software on those systems for which that was necessary, and generally making it possible to close up shop with an eye to opening again in a year (the target period). This project was the response to the original order simply to turn everything off. We pointed out vociferously how much damage that would do to the dinosaurs, reminding the nontechnical powers-that-be of just how long it had taken to make most of the vintage hardware work again, and that they could plan on a month of restoration per month of down time, before the museum could be reopened after the decision was made to do so. All of the engineers, which the exception of the manager of the department, were laid off as of 1 July 2020. None of us was allowed to return to the museum at any future time, and no one associated with the mothballed museum was allowed to talk to any of us. All of that is by way of saying that I have no information on the internal state of the collection, or of the museum which we built on it. As for the status of the collection: While we built the museum, there was a private foundation set up which acquired items for the collection, generally by purchase. After 5 years of successful operations, with year over year increases in visitor counts, ongoing relationships with several school districts for instructional field trips, and worldwide acclaim, the decision was to taken to move to a 501(c)(3) public charity. This transition was under way when Paul died suddenly; that placed things into limbo because the transition was incomplete, and the estate could not do things that he could have done in person. That's as much as I know. Rich Alderson P. S. After the layoff, I looked for work for a few months, with nary a nibble. I've officially been retired for tax purposes since September 2021.
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 12:48 AM Bushie via cctalk wrote: > I've been recently been told, in person, by someone who works there that > they are actually remodeling and just getting ready to open. Of course, > I brought up the recently closures by Vulcan but this person assured me > that this wasn't the case for the LCM. > Thank you, that was the kind of update I was looking for. Now I wish they'd be more vocal about communicating that! -Mike
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
The LCM has some of stuff (a Zenith Z150 PC computer, including monitor and an early paged memory expansion that I installed, a couple of Apple IIc computers and monitors, a printer, but probably more important, a bunch of original MS-DOS software diskettes and manuals from the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s (including several versions of MS-DOS, FORTRAN, MS Word for DOS, an early version of Lotus-123, and other earlier software) that I used to complete my doctoral degree and first start my college teaching position. But I understood at the time that Paul's LCM was actually "buying" my computer stuff, as they reached out to me in interest to acquire the entire lot of materials (after I had emailed an availability list to this very same cctalk group) and accepted the prices I requested without question as I recall, plus I was reimbursed for all shipping costs. And so I interpreted the transaction at the time that I no longer had rights (other than visitation rights should I ever visited Seattle) to these items. I may be unclear in my understanding from the time, but at the same time none of what the LCM received from me was so rare or unique as to my wanting to ever request it back again. I was thankful at the time that I had a place for this computer stuff to go. I would be sad, however, if any of it might be now in a dumpster or landfill, or has been sold to someone else, and so I guess I also don't want to hear that news either way. Kevin Anderson Dubuque, Iowa
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Chris Zach wrote: > All that said, if I have to drive out to Seattle with a U-Haul I'll do > it. Again. But I would prefer them to be displayed, taken care of, > loved. AI is available right now from here: ssh i...@tty.livingcomputers.org It's running under the name LC ITS now, but it's the original AI KS10.
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Unless you gave something to them with conditions, that's unlikely to work. Normally, when you give a thing to another person, that person is free to do with it what he wants. For example, if someone doesn't like a birthday present, he can throw it away, or give it to someone else, and you have nothing to say about that. There is a very nice note in the door panel of AI saying that if Paul ever got bored of the system, tired of it, or just went broke that I would come out there with a U-Haul and pick it up. Because that happened. Time and time again. MIT, FTP software, Sandstorm, Digex, etc... All people who said to me "don't worry, we'll give it a good home" then I'm called 6 months later to find it's on a loading dock to the dumpster Part of the reason I ask any museum or collector who has one of the three (AI, BLT, MC) to agree to that. Not so much because I want them back, but because I was charged with them as a "sacred oath" or whatever. All that said, if I have to drive out to Seattle with a U-Haul I'll do it. Again. But I would prefer them to be displayed, taken care of, loved. In the meantime the last ITS system sits in my storage shed. MC is a bit lonely these days, and is a bit of a mess: When it blew up with a massive system failure they took out the CPU core and scrapped the rest of the chassis before I could get to it. However the CPU core box, boards, Massbus, power supply, and chaosnet interface are still intact. I've been pulling the parts together over the summer, many of the boards were in a closet here at the house when I was using them to test AI and the power supply was removed and stored in another closet. I think I have everything accounted for, so maybe this winter I'll roll the chassis box into my workshop for a good cleaning and photography session CZ And on top of that, various courts that don't like paying attention to law and contract have in the past allowed museums to go against the explicit written restrictions of gifts made to them. My conclusion from all that is: if you want any chance of controlling what happens with your stuff, don't donate it -- lend it instead on a long-term loan agreement. paul
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 06:57, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On Oct 31, 2022, at 12:13 AM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> >> [...] >>> >>> Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not >>> simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be >>> interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... >> >> If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially >> looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse >> my donation then I have intention to have it back. > > Unless you gave something to them with conditions, that's unlikely to work. > Normally, when you give a thing to another person, that person is free to do > with it what he wants. For example, if someone doesn't like a birthday > present, he can throw it away, or give it to someone else, and you have > nothing to say about that. > > And on top of that, various courts that don't like paying attention to law > and contract have in the past allowed museums to go against the explicit > written restrictions of gifts made to them. My conclusion from all that is: > if you want any chance of controlling what happens with your stuff, don't > donate it -- lend it instead on a long-term loan agreement. > I donated a few items to LCM. I was told that they didn’t do long-term loans when I brought that up on one item. The paperwork for the first item was minimal, basically just an acknowledgment of receipt. The paperwork for the last item was more complicated and included an agreement that allowed them to do lots of things with the item that I wasn’t comfortable with but that at the time I trusted them not to do without good reason. alan >paul > >
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 12:13 AM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk > wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >> > [...] >> >> Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not >> simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be >> interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... > > If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially > looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse > my donation then I have intention to have it back. Unless you gave something to them with conditions, that's unlikely to work. Normally, when you give a thing to another person, that person is free to do with it what he wants. For example, if someone doesn't like a birthday present, he can throw it away, or give it to someone else, and you have nothing to say about that. And on top of that, various courts that don't like paying attention to law and contract have in the past allowed museums to go against the explicit written restrictions of gifts made to them. My conclusion from all that is: if you want any chance of controlling what happens with your stuff, don't donate it -- lend it instead on a long-term loan agreement. paul
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
I've been recently been told, in person, by someone who works there that they are actually remodeling and just getting ready to open. Of course, I brought up the recently closures by Vulcan but this person assured me that this wasn't the case for the LCM. On 10/30/2022 10:16 AM, Royce Taft via cctalk wrote: That’s really disappointing to hear. I only discovered that museum for myself via their website a couple of years ago and had no idea that it closed. I had planned on visiting next time my wife and I travel to Seattle. I hope that they are able to reopen. Royce Sent from my iPhone On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Michael Brutman via cctalk wrote: My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you. Their abrupt closing wasn't that long ago. Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there? The web site has not been updated in about 2.5 years. The world seems to be moving on; it would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, and in what capacity. I realize the people are gone and scattered and it's never going to be the same experience if it re-opens. But there are plenty of us who still believe in the need for such a place, and starting from scratch would be difficult. -Mike (Off-list replies are welcomed if that makes the discussion easier ...)
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
The Internet is wonderful for misinformation and a good laugh. Here even Paul Allen's sister Jody can morph into Paul's wife.:-) Rich Alderson please provide the LCM facts if you can to stop the silly rumours. On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 11:36 AM Michael Kerpan via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > The museum had been one of Paul Allen's private passion projects. Sadly, he > died rather unexpectedly and he hadn't really had time to set up a proper > legal entity to protect it after his death, so it and all his other passion > projects ended up controlled by his wife's real estate company which > started looking at ways of shutting them down almost immediately. COVID > gave them the perfect excuse, sadly. > > Mike > > On Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 1:16 PM Royce Taft via cctalk > > wrote: > > > That’s really disappointing to hear. I only discovered that museum for > > myself via their website a couple of years ago and had no idea that it > > closed. I had planned on visiting next time my wife and I travel to > > Seattle. > > > > I hope that they are able to reopen. > > > > Royce > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Michael Brutman via cctalk < > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > > My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you. Their > > abrupt > > > closing wasn't that long ago. > > > > > > Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there? The web site > > has > > > not been updated in about 2.5 years. The world seems to be moving on; > it > > > would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, > and > > in > > > what capacity. > > > > > > I realize the people are gone and scattered and it's never going to be > > the > > > same experience if it re-opens. But there are plenty of us who still > > > believe in the need for such a place, and starting from scratch would > be > > > difficult. > > > > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > (Off-list replies are welcomed if that makes the discussion easier ...) > > >
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Yea they are squatting on something SMECC museum would dearly love Ed Sharpe - Archivist for SMECC Sent from the all new AOL app for Android On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 9:13 PM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > [...] > > Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not > simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be > interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse my donation then I have intention to have it back. So they have to stuff this paper into their files and maybe even be nice to donator. I have no idea how this seems from the side of the law - is it at all possible that donator can claim his donation back? If there is a good reason for this, of course. It was given to the museum, with purpose to have it exhibited or otherwise used by some group of people. If museum is being scrapped for good, then this purpose is not going to be fulfilled, so???... Or, if museum decided to give it to some artistic movement, which used it in their performances - say, peeing on olde computer, making it puff and throw sparks, under the slogans painted on the wall, claiming this very computer enabled certain pitiful aspects of western civilization (which I will not name, so as to not have attention of bots). How is that called in English law-speak, abuse of good faith? -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
Tomasz, This is a very interesting and relevant question. To the extent that there is an implied and enforceable contract between donor and donee that a donation not be neglected or removed from public use, if a donated item were to actually be removed from public use, that would definitely be actionable in the courts. Whether one would prevail or not would depend on the competency of their argument. If the LCM is a non-profit corporation, their inventory of computers are considered public property, and therefore subject to specific rules for disposition. However, I believe (but could be wrong) that the LCM was a foundation of sorts, so the same rules wouldn't necessarily apply. Foundations are typically of a private nature, and so to the extent that the wishes of the donor are to be honored, they would have to be explicitly established. Otherwise, as a gift to the foundation, the foundation could then reasonably do with the property what it wished per its own needs or desires, irrespective of the considerations of the donor. I'm hoping Rich Alderson will pipe in and give us the actual story as to what's going on with the LCM and its collection, but there's a possibility that he may be legally constricted from giving comment at this time. Sellam On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 9:13 PM Tomasz Rola via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > > > [...] > > > > Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not > > simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be > > interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... > > If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially > looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse > my donation then I have intention to have it back. > > So they have to stuff this paper into their files and maybe even be > nice to donator. > > I have no idea how this seems from the side of the law - is it at all > possible that donator can claim his donation back? If there is a good > reason for this, of course. It was given to the museum, with purpose > to have it exhibited or otherwise used by some group of people. If > museum is being scrapped for good, then this purpose is not going to > be fulfilled, so???... > > Or, if museum decided to give it to some artistic movement, which used > it in their performances - say, peeing on olde computer, making it puff > and throw sparks, under the slogans painted on the wall, claiming this > very computer enabled certain pitiful aspects of western civilization > (which I will not name, so as to not have attention of bots). > > How is that called in English law-speak, abuse of good faith? > > -- > Regards, > Tomasz Rola > > -- > ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** > ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** > ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** > ** ** > ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** >
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > [...] > > Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not > simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be > interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse my donation then I have intention to have it back. So they have to stuff this paper into their files and maybe even be nice to donator. I have no idea how this seems from the side of the law - is it at all possible that donator can claim his donation back? If there is a good reason for this, of course. It was given to the museum, with purpose to have it exhibited or otherwise used by some group of people. If museum is being scrapped for good, then this purpose is not going to be fulfilled, so???... Or, if museum decided to give it to some artistic movement, which used it in their performances - say, peeing on olde computer, making it puff and throw sparks, under the slogans painted on the wall, claiming this very computer enabled certain pitiful aspects of western civilization (which I will not name, so as to not have attention of bots). How is that called in English law-speak, abuse of good faith? -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
The museum had been one of Paul Allen's private passion projects. Sadly, he died rather unexpectedly and he hadn't really had time to set up a proper legal entity to protect it after his death, so it and all his other passion projects ended up controlled by his wife's real estate company which started looking at ways of shutting them down almost immediately. COVID gave them the perfect excuse, sadly. Mike On Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 1:16 PM Royce Taft via cctalk wrote: > That’s really disappointing to hear. I only discovered that museum for > myself via their website a couple of years ago and had no idea that it > closed. I had planned on visiting next time my wife and I travel to > Seattle. > > I hope that they are able to reopen. > > Royce > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Michael Brutman via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you. Their > abrupt > > closing wasn't that long ago. > > > > Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there? The web site > has > > not been updated in about 2.5 years. The world seems to be moving on; it > > would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, and > in > > what capacity. > > > > I realize the people are gone and scattered and it's never going to be > the > > same experience if it re-opens. But there are plenty of us who still > > believe in the need for such a place, and starting from scratch would be > > difficult. > > > > > > -Mike > > > > (Off-list replies are welcomed if that makes the discussion easier ...) >
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
That’s really disappointing to hear. I only discovered that museum for myself via their website a couple of years ago and had no idea that it closed. I had planned on visiting next time my wife and I travel to Seattle. I hope that they are able to reopen. Royce Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 30, 2022, at 09:22, Michael Brutman via cctalk > wrote: > > My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you. Their abrupt > closing wasn't that long ago. > > Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there? The web site has > not been updated in about 2.5 years. The world seems to be moving on; it > would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, and in > what capacity. > > I realize the people are gone and scattered and it's never going to be the > same experience if it re-opens. But there are plenty of us who still > believe in the need for such a place, and starting from scratch would be > difficult. > > > -Mike > > (Off-list replies are welcomed if that makes the discussion easier ...)
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
> On Oct 30, 2022, at 12:22 PM, Michael Brutman via cctalk > wrote: > > My apologies if this topic is a sore point for some of you. Their abrupt > closing wasn't that long ago. > > Does anybody have any insight on what is going on there? The web site has > not been updated in about 2.5 years. The world seems to be moving on; it > would be nice to know if we're ever going to see the museum re-open, and in > what capacity. Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... paul
