Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Tor Arntsen via cctalk writes: > On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 18:19, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > >> What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm >> often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon >> which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been >> invaluable in this respect. > > I collect all the documentation I can find (including my own old notes > when I can find them). It's really hard to figure out exactly how > something works when documentation is lost and there's nobody around > with the knowledge. This was by far the biggest challenge I had when writing the 3B2/400 simulator for SIMH. Documentation was scarce or nonexistent for almost every aspect of the 3B2 system board internals, and I had to work out a lot of it myself by watching a logic analyzer. Thankfully, as the emulator progressed and word got out, it attracted the attention of some people with very useful documentation who kindly offered it to me. I've been hoarding what I can find and scanning it as fast as possible to get it all archived online in digital form as well as maintaining the original physical copies. But as a result, I'm keenly aware of how much this stuff is ephemeral. There are still lots and lots of AT&T publications relating to the 3B2 that are (as far as I can tell) lost to history and probably gone forever. -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA, USA w...@loomcom.com
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 06:04, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Be careful about taunting a time traveller. > He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Oh no! Roko's basilisk! You've wok+++ATH NO CARRIER
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 18:19, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. I collect all the documentation I can find (including my own old notes when I can find them). It's really hard to figure out exactly how something works when documentation is lost and there's nobody around with the knowledge. When I visited Ise shrine in Japan some years ago they were in the middle of building a completely new wooden bridge beside the existing one. They were building new temples as well. Turned out that every twenty years they routinely rebuild *everything*, including the items inside the temples and buildings. Then they tear down the old ones (and use the old material at other sites around the country). And still they claimed that the temples. bridges, items etc. had been there since around 1200 AD. I was a bit baffled about this, but when I had lunch in the nearest town a waiter noticed the foreigner and gave me a booklet to read. It was all explained there. It's simple enough: What they feel as important to preserve is the knowledge about how to build these things. The craftmanship and the artistry. 20 years is just about right - it's enough to hand over the craft to another generation, with overlap. And they've been doing this for hundreds of years. So, what is worth preserving is the *howto*, not the actual old things which would just detoriate more and more over time and eventually disappear. That's just "stuff", and immaterial, as it were. And, as I once witnessed a Viking ship replica going under in bad weather due to something not fully correct in the understanding of exactly how to construct a specific part of the bottom of the ship, I can fully appreciate the thinking. Knowledge gained over hundreds of years in wooden ship building can be lost over a generation or two, even if there's still a parallel tradition of building other types of boats. Which turned out not to be enough to understand how it was done. It can be painfully difficult to recreate, figure out, and document something that's lost, even if you have an old original in bad shape to look at. Which is why they've worked for decades at e.g. Roskilde in Denmark to recreate the knowledge. And the last time I visited that site they still couldn't build as well as the old builders, there was a newly built replica of a small boat where they had a beatifully preserved original nearby - the original still looked better. Give them a decade or two more, and it'll improve I'm sure.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? Awesomeness. The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? You'd be surprised. There is a whole library of software out there. I hope they’re not crowding out anything Nope. Plenty of room for everyone.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Yes Evan, you mentioned that. I know; ergo my use of a smiley there...
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 09:04:38PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > >That is him. > >I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories [...] > > Be careful about taunting a time traveller. > He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Ah. Ok, you have convinced me. Sorry, John Titor. BTW, you would like a ride to the past? I would like a ride to the future. Although from what I have seen so far, maybe not... -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: That is him. I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories about how he conducts various petty crimes in a past in order to get hold of many precious classic computers. So that he could easily retire like some of use would like to (but no way, no Apple-1 for us). Be careful about taunting a time traveller. He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Then you might suddenly find that he has become your grandfather. Or his own grandfather.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 10:02:27PM -0500, John Herron wrote: > Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to > be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. That is him. > I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and > calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I > coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories about how he conducts various petty crimes in a past in order to get hold of many precious classic computers. So that he could easily retire like some of use would like to (but no way, no Apple-1 for us). So, he could be sitting now (his "now", in the year, say, 2050), reading archives of this group and spraying his pinacolada on the monitor when he reads about his fictional misdeeds. And those stories would have been from his past, so he could not go back to correct me, for example, without changing his timeline. Well, on the other hand, if he is some kind of local incognito saint in the group, and I had no idea, than maybe making up stories about him is not the best idea. Is there any better way to play joke on John Titor? > Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) Yes, and get caught in a photo... -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 1:09 PM Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, John Herron via cctalk wrote: Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) I have publicly offered: If John Titor will give me a ONE WAY ride to 1960, I will get him his 5100, with both BASIC AND APL, and make some investments to fund his entire project. The investments will include only a few Apple 1 computers, because they will need to be discreet and low profile, although it would be very tempting to make a few "adjustments" to history. If the ride is ROUND-TRIP, then all he gets is a good look at a 5100. I'll take the long way back.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 1:09 PM Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I > board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits > on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Jul 5, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? I have heard that there is quite a bit of variation from one to the next. But I haven't had the chance to see several side by side to compare. It hadn't yet reached the stage of mass production of absolutley identical units. The PEOPLE who have them, and the stories about how they got into it are also interesting. Even the people who bought into it more recently. "WHY?" "If you're willing to pay that kind of money, maybe you should come look at some of the stuff that I no longer need." The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? I hope they’re not crowding out anything more interesting. Not to worry. Evan is very capable of expanding the space if it gets too crowded, rather than turning away anything that is more interesting. If anything, having the crowds all clustered around the "artifacts of divine provenance" will make it less crowded around the good stuff! I hope that my health holds up well enough to fill the consignment area with a few cubic meters of stuff that I need to get out of my house. And, not to worry, I will not be bringing any Apple 1 computers. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Jul 5, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at > VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? I hope they’re not crowding out anything more interesting. -- Chris
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :) To some yuppies, the cost is something to brag about being able to afford. To the truly wealthy, it is irrelevant. If Bill Gates wanted one, he would not have to economize elsewhere to afford it. And there are a lot of billionaires today. It would be a trivial expense for the nostalgia, or the "I wanted one, and couldn't get one then; but now I can." For your panel, a few questions to put to them: 1) Did you get one when they were current, or more recently? 2) For each of those two groups, WHY did you get one? 3) Did you later get an Apple ][?
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Yes Evan, you mentioned that. Eventually there will be people settling estates. The first ones sold will do well but eventually, even those that want bragging rights will have little interest in such items. Apple is already at a point that they no longer have a hold on the market. They may be able to get a couple more geeky gotta have items, like the watch, but their days are already numbered. Their computers are virtually unrepairable, if something goes wrong( talk to anyone that has one but maybe just because of their own policies, not that the hardware is any worse or better than anyone else's ). I expect that Apple-1s will hold their value for at least the rest of my life time, if not go up more. So, what should I care. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Evan Koblentz via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 1:10 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West > The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, > would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just > an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 01:30:36PM -0500, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > At 01:09 PM 7/8/2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > >Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard > >alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender > >and the rest. > > What? Why? I must have a few in the warehouse... Cool. I have got the number from some keyboard-0-prn websites, given in Deutsche Marks, translated liberally to more current currency. I cannot tell if number was right, but if it was right few years ago then I would expect it to only go up over time. Lucky you! -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The value of Apple 1s are clearly a combination of many things. They're about a factor of 500x because they were Apples first product. There is no question about that. Other factors include limited run. The fact that may were turned in for credit to get an Apple II made them even rarer. Value is what the buyer will pay. At $600+ they were not attractive to me at the time because at that time, I could get a working, used, S-100 for $400. Even when the Apple II came out, its limited expansion were not of interest to me. Apple's hardware design was poor ( the disk system is an example ). Another was blowing out printer interfaces because you tuned them on in the wrong order. Even the selection of the 6502 was based on how cheap one could make a computer for the masses ( not saying that the 6502 wasn't a good design, only that the selection was based on cost, not quality received ). Rare is not equal to valuable. Rare and desired combine to make value. If I didn't expect to make a profit I'd not personally buy an apple 1 for more than $200. I don't have the funds to buy one at the current rate. Like many stocks, I personally think it is over valued. I think that some day the value will drop. I couldn't guess as to how much. The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. As a museum item, it is interesting. I do wish I'd bought one when I started. I'd not have it today, though. When the value went over a few tens of thousands, I'm sure I'd have sold it. All stated, buy me, are just opinions. Done take offense as none was intended. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of corey cohen via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 8:10 AM To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West The high price isn’t a Steve Jobs distortion field. The Apple-1 was collectible in the 1980’s before Jobs became the one we all remember. The Apple-1 was really the 1st collectible personal computer and it was produced in very limited numbers for a very short time and was tied the grandparent to the Apple II and all other Apple products. As for the replicas being more reliable, only if they are built using modern sockets with modern caps and TTL chips where possible. The original boards still differ a lot from the replicas because the techniques used to make the PCB boards are no longer used or legal due to environmental laws and the dying art of how they made PCBs in the 70’s. As for why a replica can cost so much, look at the prices for some of the items on the Apple-1 like the ceramic 6502, the shift registers or RAM. They aren’t expensive because they are on an Apple-1, but there are people who collect those vintage chips also. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >>> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >>> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >>> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 >> >> No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? >> >> The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs >> (reality distortion field.) > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. > > --Chuck > > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 9:19 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. > Thanks, Chuck. Keeping old information available is why I spend so much time/money on doing it.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
At 01:09 PM 7/8/2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: >Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard >alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender >and the rest. What? Why? I must have a few in the warehouse... - John
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 09:19:09AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 7/8/19 8:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > > > > Spoken like a non-collector. :-) > > I suppose that's the root of it. I'm basically a pragmatist. I give > away old hardware that no longer has any use to me. When I am > eventually forced to downsize, (or my widow is) most of the stuff will > go either to the recyclers or to the landfill. I am not my possessions. > > I recall the Homebrew CC at SLAC auditorium where the Apple I was rolled > out for a special price. Since I already had a MITS box, I wasn't very > enthusiastic about laying out cash for a single-board microcomputer--a > feeling shared by several other people I knew. At any rate, if I'd > have sprung for one, it'd be gone by now, as its utility has long passed. Yeah. I was a proud owner of Amiga 2000C... or B. A big box with place for cards, and a memory extension inside (i.e. one slot filled), and two click-click-click-ing floppy drives. And a standalone mech keyboard. And green monocolor monitor. When I went to buy a 486, I had to sell it in second hand shop to raise money. It went for 600 Polish zloty (about 1/5 of 486 price), which (I estimate) was about 200-300 buckies at the time. Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender and the rest. But like you say. Amiga had less _practical_ value at that time than a lousy PC, which came with a hard drive (finally, I could install Linux and run LaTeX on it) and VGA (Doom!! UFO: Enemy Unknown), color monitor, not blinking at 640x400... Much better for anything I wanted to do with a computer then and now. So be it. I rarely do such things as remembering past decisions which later proved to be wrong, and bitching and whipping myself in guilt - especially if at the particular time it was the best decision I could have made. Now if any of you guys ever see an Amiga 2000 with small green happy dragon stickered to the keyboard, say "hello, little ami" from me. > While I can appreciate painted artworks for the genius behind them, I'm > fully aware that they're just blobs of paint on a bit of canvas or wood > and that an accurate replica could be fashioned without too much trouble > using modern technology. > > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. I stick around here mostly for learning. I am almost an informational omnivore (limiting to subjects of interest at the time), so I get everything. Stories about smoking caps. Or how a mainframe warmed water in open swimming pool. Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. Reading archives of this list and planning whose basement to rummage in a night after funeral. C'mon folks. Let's make cruel jokes at him. He cannot do a shit about it, or else he will ruin his future :-). > As far as owning a watch that was worn by Charles Lindbergh, okay, if it > keeps good time; otherwise, not so much. You have not weared a watch if you did not try ones from Salvadore Dali. The lousy watchmaker's works not only cannot keep up the time, they even cannot keep up the shape. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The high price isn’t a Steve Jobs distortion field. The Apple-1 was collectible in the 1980’s before Jobs became the one we all remember. The Apple-1 was really the 1st collectible personal computer and it was produced in very limited numbers for a very short time and was tied the grandparent to the Apple II and all other Apple products. As for the replicas being more reliable, only if they are built using modern sockets with modern caps and TTL chips where possible. The original boards still differ a lot from the replicas because the techniques used to make the PCB boards are no longer used or legal due to environmental laws and the dying art of how they made PCBs in the 70’s. As for why a replica can cost so much, look at the prices for some of the items on the Apple-1 like the ceramic 6502, the shift registers or RAM. They aren’t expensive because they are on an Apple-1, but there are people who collect those vintage chips also. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >>> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >>> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >>> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 >> >> No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? >> >> The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs >> (reality distortion field.) > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. > > --Chuck > > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 8:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > Spoken like a non-collector. :-) I suppose that's the root of it. I'm basically a pragmatist. I give away old hardware that no longer has any use to me. When I am eventually forced to downsize, (or my widow is) most of the stuff will go either to the recyclers or to the landfill. I am not my possessions. I recall the Homebrew CC at SLAC auditorium where the Apple I was rolled out for a special price. Since I already had a MITS box, I wasn't very enthusiastic about laying out cash for a single-board microcomputer--a feeling shared by several other people I knew. At any rate, if I'd have sprung for one, it'd be gone by now, as its utility has long passed. While I can appreciate painted artworks for the genius behind them, I'm fully aware that they're just blobs of paint on a bit of canvas or wood and that an accurate replica could be fashioned without too much trouble using modern technology. What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been invaluable in this respect. As far as owning a watch that was worn by Charles Lindbergh, okay, if it keeps good time; otherwise, not so much. --Chuck
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 17:02, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. Spoken like a non-collector. :-) It's OK, it's not condemnatory, I've just noticed some people are like that. I have seen a handful of original Leonardo da Vinci works. "Girl with ermine" was the best, for me, in Krakow. But I had the chance to see the Mona Lisa in the Louvre and the Last Supper in Milan. Both would have meant paying and queuing for hours. I said no. I'm not that into them. But of course millions do every year. I got a thrill hearing a player piano play a roll cut by Gershwin himself playing Rhapsody in Blue, though. Partly it depends what you're into, partly convenience, partly preference. I never wear designer clothes and think the whole idea is silly. (I was much impressed by Naomi Klein's /No Logo/ but I was like this before it. Recommended read anyway. It's a Liff in the Douglas Adams sense.) But designer jeans, say, I'd expect to be comfier and fit better. Designer *T-shirts* strike me as just ridiculous. It's an ordinary tee with a name printed on it. The book taught me how ludicrous that was. Would you consider working with an emulator of a vintage machine just as good as the real thing? If a Raspberry Pi, costing $35 and running on milli-Amps, could save you the hassle of running a full-size minicomputer on expensive 3-phase power and cooling -- would that be enough? If yes, then fine. Perhaps you like the PiDP-11. If no, then I get you. Part of the fun for me is that it's the real thing. I don't just want to play games on emulators. I want to experience the speed, the noise, the smells, the whole experience of using a vintage computer. But other people just want to _own_ one and would be happy with the experience of the emulator. They'd prefer their rare machine, in proper original packaging, safe in a clean dry place, and using the emulator for the fun of old games. Both are legitimate to me. My vintage machines are often a bit grubby. I don't care if they _look_ new but I want them to _work_ and work well. I max out the RAM, fit bigger disks, etc. I am not much bothered if it is stock or mint condition but working is important. For others, original packaging and it looking nice is. Thus, Retrobr1te and all that. I'd never bother. It just takes all sorts. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 > > No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? > > The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs > (reality distortion field.) Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some additional spiritual property? The replica may actually be more reliable. --Chuck
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs (reality distortion field.) - Ethan
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 5, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk > wrote: > > >> What are the replicas gong for Evan? > > > A perfect reproduction -- for example a Mimeo will entirely date-code-correct > components -- can go for four figures. > > Most repros/replicas aren't at that level. >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
> From: Evan Koblentz > what the owners plan to do in the future. Sell the Apple I and retire to a tropical island on the proceeds, if they have any sense! :-) Noel
Apple ][ EPROM programmer Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Guy said > I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple > I, and what that mistake cost me. > > http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm You mention you were not aware of any EPROM programmer boards for the Apple ][. I had one for my taiwanese FORMOSA Apple ][ clone and I recall it could do 2716s perhaps 2732s. It was dirt cheap relative to locally bought computer gear in Australia in 1982 like all the other clone cards on offer (Z80 Softcard, printer card, language card, disk ][ card, PAL colour card, 128k ramdisk card and so on) so we got the lot. Since we had no accessible internet back then, everything was done via telexes and wire transfers at the local Post Office to Formosa's Taiwan office. The clone programmer card was very similar in size, layout and appearance to this one but I don't recall it was as sparsely populated: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cider-EPROM-Programmer-VIA-for-Apple-II-Computers/223574161149 Steve
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/6/2019 7:59 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Not many collectors back when the Apple1 came out! While the CHEAP 6502 is remembered with the Apple we must not forget that the 16 pin 4K dram really made that computer work. Regardless of the architecture, 32 KB is needed to do any useful computing work, and 1975 was the start of affordable memory. PS: Ben's 18 bit computer is BETTER than a PDP 11, faster, simpler and with *2 MORE Blinking lights and Switches*. 1.25 us Core (2.5 us instruction time) vs the orginal PDP 11. did I say more blinking lights. :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Not many collectors back when the Apple1 came out! Not sure either if many understood what that single board computer would birth in the way of a line of follow ons. Sometimes the future is not known! Ed# In a message dated 7/6/2019 6:51:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: It ((If)) the Apple I was so great, why did the COLLECTORS not buy them then?
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/6/2019 1:12 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: At 08:21 PM 5/07/2019 -0400, you wrote: You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards. I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple I, and what that mistake cost me. http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Guy Just like the stock market, Next week it could be vintage WWI army boots worn my Mother Inlaws. It the Apple I was so great, why did the COLLECTORS not buy them then? Now a 6501 CPU would be worth a pretty penny. I wonder what has more sales Saturday July 6 2019, A PDP/8 in some form, A PI computer, or a 6502 Home brew computer? Ben. Ps: I have a one of kind 18 bit computer lurking in a DE1 FPGA card, and I am not getting any offers for its sale. Replace your PDP-8 with something bigger. :) 1.5 uS core memory cycle. PPS: A Deluxe 20 bit computer coming REAL SOON.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 at 09:12, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > > I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple > I, and what that mistake cost me. > > http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Sad reading... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
At 08:21 PM 5/07/2019 -0400, you wrote: >You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of >decent-condition Apple 1 boards. I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple I, and what that mistake cost me. http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Guy
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
What are the replicas gong for Evan? A perfect reproduction -- for example a Mimeo will entirely date-code-correct components -- can go for four figures. Most repros/replicas aren't at that level.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
real or replica? Real! That's the whole point. we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look for one in the STUFF! My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). Definitely! I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Time to start sorting boards!Although... I am not sure if I will live long enough to get though all of it... What are the replicas gong for Evan? Ed# In a message dated 7/5/2019 5:21:17 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cct...@snarc.net writes: > real or replica? Real! That's the whole point. > we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of > piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look > for one in the STUFF! > My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at > later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
real or replica? we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look for one in the STUFF! My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# In a message dated 7/5/2019 3:24:46 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: That is amazing. When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:27 PM Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be > displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of > these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join > early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were > purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the > future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ > > -Evan > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
That is amazing. When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:27 PM Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be > displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of > these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join > early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were > purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the > future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ > > -Evan > >
Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ -Evan
