Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 12/02/2016 06:18 PM, Brad H wrote:
>
>  Original message 
> From: allison <ajp...@verizon.net> 
> Date: 2016-12-02  2:23 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
> Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 
>
> On 12/02/2016 12:33 PM, Brad H wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich 
>> Alderson
>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
>> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>> Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff
>>
>> From: Brad H
>> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM
>>
>>> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.
>> See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
>> There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
>> weight, and capabilities.
>>
>> Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room 
>> to spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.
>>
>>  Rich
>> Rich Alderson
>> Sr. Systems Engineer
>> Living Computers: Museum + Labs
>> 2245 1st Ave S
>>> Seattle, WA 98134
>>>
>>> http://www.LivingComputers.org/
>> Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there 
>> are some pretty large PDP-# systems.
>>
> That's more than lazy!  Just don't!
>
> The PDP-8 and the PDP11 and PDP10 were beating the pants off of Intellec
> 2xx systems
> for years before the first one was made.  Remember Billy Gates used a
> PDP10 cross
> assembler and simulator to create BASIC.  The market those DEC system
> were in
> demanded far more performance than the 8080 from 1974 could deliver.
>
> An 8e running WPS was typically a multi-user system.
> A PDP-8E running TSS could service 8-16 users in what appeared to them
> as real time.
> That was the original Boces Lirics system of 1969 a whopping three racks
> of PDP-8i
> The PDP-8e was a tad faster.  Fast forward to the early 90s and my
> Decmate-III with APU
> and running OS278 likely make the I230 look poor and it was much
> smaller.  FYI the DMIII
> is a PDP-8 on a chip (cmos 6120 cpu).  The APU was a z80@4mhz with 64K
> ram and could
> still easily outrun the I230 and gave me the choice to use 0S278 (a
> version of OS8),
> WPS (word and list processing), and CP/M-80.
>
> A PDP-10 (BOCES LIRICS system 1970!) serviced over 300 users.  A 36bit
> monster.
> The CPU and the memory was eight 6ft racks long by two rows big not
> including the four RP06s.
> That system used the old PDP8i to keep it fed (data concentrator).
>
> A PDP-11/23 with a 10MB disk in a single 50inch short cab running TSX or
> other time sharing
> system usually  supported 4-8 users. It was a 16bit system at that. 
> They usually fit in the corner.
>
> A Intellect 230 was handily beat by my NS*Horizon system in 1980. 
> That's allowing for
> the fact that the I230 was 8080 powered and ran at 2mhz (2:1 handicap). 
> I know the
> system well as I used it to develop programs for 8048/9, 8085, 8088, and
> other micros
> of the day till we retired it for a faster box (multibus 8086 at 8mhz in
> 1981).
>
> So a knowledge of computer history and performance is is something to
>> consider.
>> Allison
> Sorry.. when I said 'beat'.. I meant weight only.  And only for the main 
> PDP-8e system unit.  Was not comparing processing speed.  But I appreciate 
> all the info you gave me there for sure. :)
An 8e box with boards for a reasonable system is still heavier than a
I230.  That's not
counting the IO terminal (asr33). :)  I know that as I've had the
opportunity to carry
both of them to the door and if I got there it was mine, they aren't
light at all.  FYI I
think the DEC docs for the 8E might weigh in as impressive!

DEC did some impressive boxes, the documentation and training alone was also
pretty important as many of the people familiar with them get their
training that
way.  Intel learned from that model which is why databooks and other
info is
common from the era.  Later RS, Apple, and even IBM would follow the model
of get while they are young and make them loyal.

Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

 Original message 
From: allison <ajp...@verizon.net> 
Date: 2016-12-02  2:23 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On 12/02/2016 12:33 PM, Brad H wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff
>
> From: Brad H
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM
>
>> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.
> See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
> There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
> weight, and capabilities.
>
> Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room 
> to spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.
>
> Rich
> Rich Alderson
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> Living Computers: Museum + Labs
> 2245 1st Ave S
>> Seattle, WA 98134
>>
>> http://www.LivingComputers.org/
> Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there 
> are some pretty large PDP-# systems.
>
That's more than lazy!  Just don't!

The PDP-8 and the PDP11 and PDP10 were beating the pants off of Intellec
2xx systems
for years before the first one was made.  Remember Billy Gates used a
PDP10 cross
assembler and simulator to create BASIC.  The market those DEC system
were in
demanded far more performance than the 8080 from 1974 could deliver.

An 8e running WPS was typically a multi-user system.
A PDP-8E running TSS could service 8-16 users in what appeared to them
as real time.
That was the original Boces Lirics system of 1969 a whopping three racks
of PDP-8i
The PDP-8e was a tad faster.  Fast forward to the early 90s and my
Decmate-III with APU
and running OS278 likely make the I230 look poor and it was much
smaller.  FYI the DMIII
is a PDP-8 on a chip (cmos 6120 cpu).  The APU was a z80@4mhz with 64K
ram and could
still easily outrun the I230 and gave me the choice to use 0S278 (a
version of OS8),
WPS (word and list processing), and CP/M-80.

A PDP-10 (BOCES LIRICS system 1970!) serviced over 300 users.  A 36bit
monster.
The CPU and the memory was eight 6ft racks long by two rows big not
including the four RP06s.
That system used the old PDP8i to keep it fed (data concentrator).

A PDP-11/23 with a 10MB disk in a single 50inch short cab running TSX or
other time sharing
system usually  supported 4-8 users. It was a 16bit system at that. 
They usually fit in the corner.

A Intellect 230 was handily beat by my NS*Horizon system in 1980. 
That's allowing for
the fact that the I230 was 8080 powered and ran at 2mhz (2:1 handicap). 
I know the
system well as I used it to develop programs for 8048/9, 8085, 8088, and
other micros
of the day till we retired it for a faster box (multibus 8086 at 8mhz in
1981).

So a knowledge of computer history and performance is is something to
>consider.


>Allison

Sorry.. when I said 'beat'.. I meant weight only.  And only for the main PDP-8e 
system unit.  Was not comparing processing speed.  But I appreciate all the 
info you gave me there for sure. :)

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 12/02/2016 12:33 PM, Brad H wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff
>
> From: Brad H
> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM
>
>> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.
> See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
> There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
> weight, and capabilities.
>
> Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room 
> to spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.
>
> Rich
> Rich Alderson
> Sr. Systems Engineer
> Living Computers: Museum + Labs
> 2245 1st Ave S
>> Seattle, WA 98134
>>
>> http://www.LivingComputers.org/
> Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there 
> are some pretty large PDP-# systems.
>
That's more than lazy!  Just don't!

The PDP-8 and the PDP11 and PDP10 were beating the pants off of Intellec
2xx systems
for years before the first one was made.  Remember Billy Gates used a
PDP10 cross
assembler and simulator to create BASIC.  The market those DEC system
were in
demanded far more performance than the 8080 from 1974 could deliver.

An 8e running WPS was typically a multi-user system.
A PDP-8E running TSS could service 8-16 users in what appeared to them
as real time.
That was the original Boces Lirics system of 1969 a whopping three racks
of PDP-8i
The PDP-8e was a tad faster.  Fast forward to the early 90s and my
Decmate-III with APU
and running OS278 likely make the I230 look poor and it was much
smaller.  FYI the DMIII
is a PDP-8 on a chip (cmos 6120 cpu).  The APU was a z80@4mhz with 64K
ram and could
still easily outrun the I230 and gave me the choice to use 0S278 (a
version of OS8),
WPS (word and list processing), and CP/M-80.

A PDP-10 (BOCES LIRICS system 1970!) serviced over 300 users.  A 36bit
monster.
The CPU and the memory was eight 6ft racks long by two rows big not
including the four RP06s.
That system used the old PDP8i to keep it fed (data concentrator).

A PDP-11/23 with a 10MB disk in a single 50inch short cab running TSX or
other time sharing
system usually  supported 4-8 users. It was a 16bit system at that. 
They usually fit in the corner.

A Intellect 230 was handily beat by my NS*Horizon system in 1980. 
That's allowing for
the fact that the I230 was 8080 powered and ran at 2mhz (2:1 handicap). 
I know the
system well as I used it to develop programs for 8048/9, 8085, 8088, and
other micros
of the day till we retired it for a faster box (multibus 8086 at 8mhz in
1981).

So a knowledge of computer history and performance is is something to
consider.


Allison

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich Alderson
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 1:34 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

From: Brad H
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM

> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.

See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size, 
weight, and capabilities.

Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with room to 
spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.

Rich



Rich Alderson
Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Ave S
> Seattle, WA 98134

>http://www.LivingComputers.org/

Sorry.. I was being lazy.. I should have said 'a PDP 8/E'.  Obviously there are 
some pretty large PDP-# systems.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Rich Alderson]

From: Brad H
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2016 8:18 AM

> My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.

See, I'm trying to get you to stop saying "a PDP".  There's no such thing.
There are families of PDP-n things, but there are wide differences in size,
weight, and capabilities.

Your Intellec 230 would fit inside one memory cabinet of a PDP-10 with
room to spare.  The entire PDP-10 system weighs tons.

Rich



Rich Alderson
Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computers: Museum + Labs
2245 1st Ave S
Seattle, WA 98134

http://www.LivingComputers.org/

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John H. 
Reinhardt
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 5:18 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff


On 12/1/2016 2:22 AM, jim stephens wrote:

> Very true, but didn't honestly think of that in context of the thread, 
> nor have I ever had any Digital Group stuff.  And does any Digital 
> Group cause any injuries requiring orthopedic medical attention when 
> you are lifting it?
>
> thanks jim

Only borderline, I think the total weight of the system box was around 40lbs.  
The standard box was a little bigger than the Altair 8800, I think.  Wider by 
about 10" or so.  I built a bunch of their kits when I was 17/18 before I went 
to college.  Tried to make my own chassis and P/S but finally had to give in 
and buy the dg one.  I had a 2.5Mhz Z80a, 26kB ( 3x8k +2k on CPU board) memory, 
an audio cassette tape storage interface and a Panasonic 12 (13"?) B/W TV 
cobbled into a surplus DEC VT52 style case that I bought from that famous (in 
the 70's) surplus place in Massachusetts. Poly Paks*? I can't remember the name.

I kind of wish I still had that system.  But after college, I never was back 
near home and eventually my parents asked if it was okay to sell it and I gave 
them permission.  someone packed it up and hauled it off. I hope it's still out 
there somewhere.

John H. Reinhardt


>*Yes, Poly Paks.  Found a discussion  
><http://antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2=200282>
>I also bought an old vector display unit from then, there as an article in 
>Byte about turning one into a display and playing Space War on it.  Never got 
>it to >work though. Parents sold it off either when I was away in college or 
>after I graduated and wasn't at home.

I have the Basic Box and it's not very heavy at all relatively speaking.  I 
imagine the Bytemaster, with the built in monitor probably weighs a fair bit.  
My Intellec 230 though might give a PDP a run for its money.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 11/30/16 3:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:

From: Brad H
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:16 AM


That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might be my
way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to rebuild one.
It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying to
think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)

So what kind of system are you interested in?  There is no such thing as a
generic "PDP".  Before giving up the naming convention, DEC produced 7
different architectures all named "PDP-n" for small integers n (and designed 2
that were never built by DEC):

PDP-1:  18 bits, 6 instruction + 12 address (System Modules)
PDP-2:  24 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-3:  36 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-4:  18 bits, 5 instruction + 13 address (System Modules)
PDP-5:  12 bits (System Modules)
PDP-6:  36 bits, 9 instruction, 9 AC+index+indirect, 18 address (mainframe)
PDP-7:  18 bits (PDP-4 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-8:  12 bits (PDP-5 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-9:  18 bits (PDP-7 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-10: 36 bits (PDP-6 upwards compatible) (mainframe)
PDP-11: 16 bits (FlipChips)
PDP-12: 12 bits (PDP-8 + LINC compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-14: 12 bits (NOT compatible with the PDP-8 family) (FlipChips)
PDP-15: 18 bits (PDP-9 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-16: register-transfer module machine, with 8-, 12- or 16-bit memory as
needed for particular application design.

Later members of each family were designated by suffixes (e.g. 8/i, 8/e, 8/A
and 11/40, 11/70, etc.) or newer names (DECsystem-10, DECSYSTEM-20).  The VAX
was the first new architecture from DEC not to have a PDP-n designation at all.

 Rich

P. S. For most of us, I think, "DG" = Data General, not Digital Group.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/


Rich,

You missed posting approximate volumes made. Some of those like the 
PDP1,4, 6 and 12

have very low production volumes.

Yes on DG, however there are use that did play with Digital Group.
A Digital group system fully bown out is likely about 60 pounds or so.
They were on a par with other S100 8080 systems for size and weight.

Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 12/1/2016 2:22 AM, jim stephens wrote:


Very true, but didn't honestly think of that in context of the
thread, nor have I ever had any Digital Group stuff.  And does any
Digital Group cause any injuries requiring orthopedic medical
attention when you are lifting it?

thanks jim


Only borderline, I think the total weight of the system box was around 40lbs.  The 
standard box was a little bigger than the Altair 8800, I think.  Wider by about 10" 
or so.  I built a bunch of their kits when I was 17/18 before I went to college.  Tried 
to make my own chassis and P/S but finally had to give in and buy the dg one.  I had a 
2.5Mhz Z80a, 26kB ( 3x8k +2k on CPU board) memory, an audio cassette tape storage 
interface and a Panasonic 12 (13"?) B/W TV cobbled into a surplus DEC VT52 style 
case that I bought from that famous (in the 70's) surplus place in Massachusetts. Poly 
Paks*? I can't remember the name.

I kind of wish I still had that system.  But after college, I never was back 
near home and eventually my parents asked if it was okay to sell it and I gave 
them permission.  someone packed it up and hauled it off. I hope it's still out 
there somewhere.

John H. Reinhardt


*Yes, Poly Paks.  Found a discussion  

I also bought an old vector display unit from then, there as an article in Byte 
about turning one into a display and playing Space War on it.  Never got it to 
work though. Parents sold it off either when I was away in college or after I 
graduated and wasn't at home.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[jim stephens]

On 11/30/2016 11:36 AM, allison wrote:

On 11/30/16 2:32 PM, jim stephens wrote:



On 11/30/2016 9:20 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:


When I got
a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it 
operating was

like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

I was ecstatic to get a Nova 3, but it was released when I thought 
the Nova 800's I used were actually getting to be old technology. 
Still very glad to finally have a full Data General system.  Since it 
replaced a PDP 11/34 on deck, I'm glad to have a system that doesn't 
make me wonder if I'll be disabled everytime i move or lift it as well.


thanks
Jim

There is DG aka Data General and then there is Digital Group Inc. They 
are very different!


Very true, but didn't honestly think of that in context of the thread, 
nor have I ever had any Digital Group stuff.  And does any Digital Group 
cause any injuries requiring orthopedic medical attention when you are 
lifting it?


thanks
jim


Allison

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rich
Alderson
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:16 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

From: Brad H
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:16 AM

> That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might 
> be my way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to
rebuild one.
> It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying 
> to think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)

So what kind of system are you interested in?  There is no such thing as a
generic "PDP".  Before giving up the naming convention, DEC produced 7
different architectures all named "PDP-n" for small integers n (and designed
2 that were never built by DEC):

PDP-1:  18 bits, 6 instruction + 12 address (System Modules)
PDP-2:  24 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-3:  36 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-4:  18 bits, 5 instruction + 13 address (System Modules)
PDP-5:  12 bits (System Modules)
PDP-6:  36 bits, 9 instruction, 9 AC+index+indirect, 18 address (mainframe)
PDP-7:  18 bits (PDP-4 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-8:  12 bits (PDP-5 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-9:  18 bits (PDP-7 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-10: 36 bits (PDP-6 upwards compatible) (mainframe)
PDP-11: 16 bits (FlipChips)
PDP-12: 12 bits (PDP-8 + LINC compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-14: 12 bits (NOT compatible with the PDP-8 family) (FlipChips)
PDP-15: 18 bits (PDP-9 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-16: register-transfer module machine, with 8-, 12- or 16-bit memory as
needed for particular application design.

Later members of each family were designated by suffixes (e.g. 8/i, 8/e, 8/A
and 11/40, 11/70, etc.) or newer names (DECsystem-10, DECSYSTEM-20).  The
VAX was the first new architecture from DEC not to have a PDP-n designation
at all.

Rich

P. S. For most of us, I think, "DG" = Data General, not Digital Group.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

>mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

>http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Can I use 'dg'? :)  I think Digital Group preferred to be uncapitalized if I
remember correctly.

Regarding PDP -- I'm just sort of dipping my toes in here.  I'd like
something that looks similar to an 8/E -- front panel toggle switches,
preferably from before 1975.  But it's all a function of price.. if I can
find a later 11 that isn't $600+, that might be a place to start.  I'm open
to suggestions.  I've always been curious about DEC -- the computer shop we
once frequented in Vancouver always had stacks of DEC stuff among its used
computer inventory.  VAX stations mostly.  But I never got around to buying
anything.  Was too busy collecting classic Macs.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Rich Alderson]

From: Brad H
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:16 AM

> That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might be my
> way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to rebuild one.
> It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying to
> think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)  

So what kind of system are you interested in?  There is no such thing as a
generic "PDP".  Before giving up the naming convention, DEC produced 7
different architectures all named "PDP-n" for small integers n (and designed 2
that were never built by DEC):

PDP-1:  18 bits, 6 instruction + 12 address (System Modules)
PDP-2:  24 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-3:  36 bits (design only) (System Modules)
PDP-4:  18 bits, 5 instruction + 13 address (System Modules)
PDP-5:  12 bits (System Modules)
PDP-6:  36 bits, 9 instruction, 9 AC+index+indirect, 18 address (mainframe)
PDP-7:  18 bits (PDP-4 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-8:  12 bits (PDP-5 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-9:  18 bits (PDP-7 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-10: 36 bits (PDP-6 upwards compatible) (mainframe)
PDP-11: 16 bits (FlipChips)
PDP-12: 12 bits (PDP-8 + LINC compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-14: 12 bits (NOT compatible with the PDP-8 family) (FlipChips)
PDP-15: 18 bits (PDP-9 upwards compatible) (FlipChips)
PDP-16: register-transfer module machine, with 8-, 12- or 16-bit memory as
needed for particular application design.

Later members of each family were designated by suffixes (e.g. 8/i, 8/e, 8/A
and 11/40, 11/70, etc.) or newer names (DECsystem-10, DECSYSTEM-20).  The VAX
was the first new architecture from DEC not to have a PDP-n designation at all.

Rich

P. S. For most of us, I think, "DG" = Data General, not Digital Group.


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 11/30/16 2:32 PM, jim stephens wrote:



On 11/30/2016 9:20 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:


When I got
a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it 
operating was

like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

I was ecstatic to get a Nova 3, but it was released when I thought the 
Nova 800's I used were actually getting to be old technology. Still 
very glad to finally have a full Data General system.  Since it 
replaced a PDP 11/34 on deck, I'm glad to have a system that doesn't 
make me wonder if I'll be disabled everytime i move or lift it as well.


thanks
Jim

There is DG aka Data General and then there is Digital Group Inc.  They 
are very different!



Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 11/30/16 11:48 AM, Brad H wrote:


Haha.  I don't know if I'd call using all that iron to run Christmas lights
'practical', though it is very cool.  I'm just trying to get out of the home
computer collector mindset.  We buy machines that can do all sorts of
things, especially games with graphics.  And when we're done we can simply
move them aside or tuck them in a closet.  A PDP with racks and all that,
not exactly portable. :)  So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested
and how much they actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.




Well using them to do work and also programming keeps it going and having
enough hardware to have one different one for each week of the year doesn't
hurt either.

I also do things like start with a Z80 system, a machine I know well and 
then
say CP/M-2.2 OS and proceed to try and write a improved version that can 
actually

do the one thing everyone wanted then, hierarchical directories, in a larger
disk space.  When you consider things like ZRdos were improvements and 
solved
the 8mb limit but not the flat directory issue in a compatible way. Will 
it change
the world, no, but its an interesting exercise.  To do so means 
understanding

at the most fundamental levels OS and file system operation.

As to PDP-11s or any PDP-mumble not all are rack size!  The small 11 I 
have is
in a BA11VA (13x12x4 inches!) that's smaller than a lot of current PCs 
save for

the terminal.

Never forget everything old is new again.


Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Mouse]

> Argument goes both ways.  Does anyone really do practical things with any ho$

Depends on how you define "practical" and "home computer".

My home network includes a SPARCstation-20, which is my main head (I'm
typing this message using it to handle keyboard and screen).  I don't
think there's any question that the SS20 is on-topic, but is it a "home
computer"?  I think of it and treat it that way, but it was never aimed
at that market by its maker and it differs in some drastic and
fundamental ways from most machines that were.

As for practical, well, it's the HCI in front of almost everything I do
at home, including work-from-home stuff

And I have another SS20 with a qec in it, which I recently used to
regain some semblance of connectivity when my house DSL decided to die
on me (it took multiple days for it to get fixed, for a variety of
reasons).  It sat on my house network with one of the qe ports
connected to a friend who had mass-market connectivity; I set up an
instance of my cloud VPN on it and it did its job well, passing packets
between my house network and my machines on the outside.  That
certainly counts as practical to me.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[jim stephens]

On 11/30/2016 9:20 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:


When I got
a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it operating was
like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

I was ecstatic to get a Nova 3, but it was released when I thought the 
Nova 800's I used were actually getting to be old technology. Still very 
glad to finally have a full Data General system.  Since it replaced a 
PDP 11/34 on deck, I'm glad to have a system that doesn't make me wonder 
if I'll be disabled everytime i move or lift it as well.


thanks
Jim

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Sam O'nella]

Argument goes both ways. Does anyone really do practical things with any home 
computer? 
On the vcf forums I enjoyed two folks who eventually got their two PDP models 
running chess and had them play eachother.  I'd like to see a rematch or maybe 
some new vintage competitors approach :-)
If they can run holiday lights they could also probably use it for x10? home 
automation if one considers that practical.
 Original message From: Brad H 
So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep 
interestedand how much they actually used the machine over the course of, say, 
a year.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Al Kossow]

On 11/30/16 9:45 AM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:

> For me it is really about the learning experience. And boy is there much to 
> learn. It's very interesting to see what is different and was is similar 
> between various operating systems and architectures (and decades).
> 
> Learning the history makes you appreciate what you have and understand why 
> some things are the way they are. Deaign decisions made 30-40 years ago 
> that affect your every day life.

And thanks to the web, the primary sources are getting spread internationally.
It isn't something that was even thought about being taught in school at any 
deep level
until VERY recently.

What you're learnin' here ain't gettin' taught in school.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Fred Cisin]

Howzbout:
line the frame of the doorway and the raingutters with rows of lights, 
with some of them grouped into rows of 8, 12, 16, 18, 24, 32, 48, 64, etc.


Put touch sensitive nailheads at various places, including alongside some 
of the rows of lights.

Wire the touch sensitive nailheads to relays.

Maybe some programming so entering appropriate codes controls porch light, 
garage door, etc.


Can any of your machines handle a second blinkenlights console?
(consisting of the entire front of your house?)

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 08:48:07AM -0800, Brad H wrote:
> 
> Haha.  I don't know if I'd call using all that iron to run Christmas lights
> 'practical', though it is very cool.  I'm just trying to get out of the home
> computer collector mindset.  We buy machines that can do all sorts of
> things, especially games with graphics.  And when we're done we can simply
> move them aside or tuck them in a closet.  A PDP with racks and all that,
> not exactly portable. :)  So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested
> and how much they actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.
> 
> 

For me it is really about the learning experience. And boy is there much to 
learn. It's very interesting to see what is different and was is similar 
between various operating systems and architectures (and decades).

Learning the history makes you appreciate what you have and understand why 
some things are the way they are. Deaign decisions made 30-40 years ago 
that affect your every day life.

I've dedicated my garage to the hobby. It's a mere 20 square meter so I can 
only fit about ten racks or so.

/P

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

I was born in '75 and my first experiences with computing were my Dad's
early Commodore stuff.  I missed the whole hobbyist era.  To me, DG stuff is
seriously antique.  When I got my Mark-8 boards they felt a little like Inca
treasure to me.  It's all relative.

It's not that I'm unaware of pre-75 computing, especially big mainframes,
etc.  But given how viciously much deeper pocketed collectors compete for
that stuff, and shipping, and space.. really... that stuff will likely
always be a curiosity for me rather than something to actually collect and
experience.

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:20 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff



On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:
> 
> 
> When I got
> a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it 
> operating was like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 11/30/16 11:48 AM, Brad H wrote:



I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos
of some in large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones
seem like a a pretty substantial investment in space for something
that doesnt (or does it?) have much practical use today.

Define practical use?

Most still can or do produce useful work.  After all programming in C or 
other language
on a PDP-11 or PC is about all the same things.  One difference is the 
PDP-11 is really
running unix.  IF anything its no different than using an arduino to 
blink a light.



What I do:
Use them to run old software that still does useful work.

Let me correct that

Use them to run well tested and debugged old software that still does 
useful work.


Amuse myself, enjoy the hardware I can fully understand down to the gate 
level.
Marvel that unlike every PC I've had that crapped after a few years 
these old machines

just keep doing their thing.

The above is significant as most of the machine I have were obtained 
when they were still
current or relevant and they were fully functional.  So maintenance has 
been minimal to none.

There are a few that I built myself back in the mid to late 70s as well.


Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Al Kossow]

On 11/30/16 9:15 AM, Brad H wrote:
> 
> 
> When I got
> a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it operating was
> like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.

Were you born in the 20th century?

Seriously, for some of us, DG microcomputers are modern.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Al Kossow]

On 11/30/16 9:07 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

> Seriously, though, like all hobbies, it's primarily to amuse me, not to
> create anything useful.

And, like an old car, it's nice to have something around you can understand
down to the gate or transistor level. You haven't been able to do that with
a computer designed in the last 25 years or more.

Because of that, they aren't going to be any ASICs in them, which make 'em
BIG. The are also going to be full of cables and connectors, and all sorts of
other things that corrode and get flakey, which doesn't happen in the same
scale as more integrated computers.

But as a device you'd, say, want to do serious development on, or expect to
run without a crash for weeks or months, not so much so.

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel
Chiappa
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 9:08 AM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

> From: Brad H

> So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested and how much they
> actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.

Well, I have to get all mine running first... ;-) Seriously, though, I'm
looking at several years of work to get them all running. (And there are
also various peripherals to do, like tape drives, etc.)

And then there's the project Dave B and I have to creat new blinkenlitz
panels (not to mention SD-card based mass storage to replace those cranky
old disk >drives for every-day running, the original purpose before the
blinkenkraze hit us :-) for the PDP-11's...

>Seriously, though, like all hobbies, it's primarily to amuse me, not to
create anything useful. And it's _very_ successful at that.

>   Noel

True enough.  I enjoy the repair and build aspect of the hobby.  When I got
a dead Digital Group Z80 system, repairing that and getting it operating was
like going on an exploration of ancient ruins.  Seeing it come to life was
amazing.  But I don't find a lot of use for it day to day.  Likewise with my
TVT project -- the experience of building it is fantastic, but not sure I'd
have much for it to do once done.  Even my old Commodore only gets sporadic
use, and only because it has so much of my old games library.

That was kind of why I thought buying a PDP in pieces over time might be my
way to go, even if it took eons to get everything I needed to rebuild one.
It'd be fun to try and piece one back together.  But yeah, I'm trying to
think of what I would do with it afterwards. :)  

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Brad H

> So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested and how much they
> actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.

Well, I have to get all mine running first... ;-) Seriously, though, I'm
looking at several years of work to get them all running. (And there are also
various peripherals to do, like tape drives, etc.)

And then there's the project Dave B and I have to creat new blinkenlitz
panels (not to mention SD-card based mass storage to replace those cranky old
disk drives for every-day running, the original purpose before the
blinkenkraze hit us :-) for the PDP-11's...

Seriously, though, like all hobbies, it's primarily to amuse me, not to
create anything useful. And it's _very_ successful at that.

Noel

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Fred Cisin]

I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos
of some in large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones
seem like a a pretty substantial investment in space for something
that doesnt (or does it?) have much practical use today.

Are you sure you are on the right mailing list?
Anyway, here is someone controling his christmas lights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MDYYvw0cY


On Wed, 30 Nov 2016, Brad H wrote:

Haha.  I don't know if I'd call using all that iron to run Christmas lights
'practical', though it is very cool.


Have you ever seen a Christmas lights system that was any more "practical" 
than that?



How do we define "hobby"?

RE: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pontus
Pihlgren
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:10 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:03:22AM -0800, Brad H wrote:
>
> I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos 
> of some in large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones 
> seem like a a pretty substantial investment in space for something 
> that doesnt (or does it?) have much practical use today.

Are you sure you are on the right mailing list?

Anyway, here is someone controling his christmas lights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MDYYvw0cY

> Cheers,
>Pontus.

Haha.  I don't know if I'd call using all that iron to run Christmas lights
'practical', though it is very cool.  I'm just trying to get out of the home
computer collector mindset.  We buy machines that can do all sorts of
things, especially games with graphics.  And when we're done we can simply
move them aside or tuck them in a closet.  A PDP with racks and all that,
not exactly portable. :)  So I wondered what PDP guys did to keep interested
and how much they actually used the machine over the course of, say, a year.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 12:03:22AM -0800, Brad H wrote:
>
> I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos 
> of some in large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones 
> seem like a a pretty substantial investment in space for something 
> that doesnt (or does it?) have much practical use today.

Are you sure you are on the right mailing list?

Anyway, here is someone controling his christmas lights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MDYYvw0cY

Cheers,
Pontus.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: "Ian S. King" <isk...@uw.edu> 
Date: 2016-11-29  7:19 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Brad H <vintagecompu...@bettercomputing.net
> wrote:

>
>
> That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?
>
>
> Keep in mind that the 8/I is a fairly substantial investment in space and
weight.  Also, if you want to add something, it's not as easy as plugging a
card into a backplane.  The 8/I requires wirewrap work.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School <http://ischool.uw.edu>
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal <http://tribunalvoices.org>
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab <http://vsdesign.org>

University of Washington

>There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon >could go to China."

I'm curious.. what do people do with these things?  I've seen videos of some in 
large racks being used to play music, etc.  The rack ones seem like a a pretty 
substantial investment in space for something that doesnt (or does it?) have 
much practical use today.

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 08:13:53PM -0500, william degnan wrote:
> 
> I am working on liberating 10 PDP 8i's...but the guy has fallen off comms.

Woa! I hope that works out, the 8i is a very nice model.

> I plan to make a trip to the location, see what I can do.  I don't want
> these, just want to help find a good home for them.

You are a hero :)

/P

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[allison]

On 11/29/2016 06:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > From: Brad H
>
> > I was thinking about trying to acquire something early 70s...
>
> Anything DEC early 70's is going to be fairly expensive, alas. Only once one
> gets to QBUS -11's does the price come down.
>
> > if it is feasible to buy in pieces .. but is dependent on parts
> > availability
>
> I would not recommend this route. Those machines are a lot of bits and
> pieces, and if you buy a few, unless you're incredibly lucky, it will take
> forever for the rest of them to show up. There will be a few things that just
> never show. (Even when buying a 'complete' system, one will often find that
> it has been robbed of a few critical components, probably cannabilized to
> keep another machine running BITD.)
>
> There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
> chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it _might_ be possible to
> round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the rule.)
>
>   Noel
>
I'll add my penny...

The likelihood of success is based on available money and space to store
things.
That and how common they were/are.  For example a PDP-6, I believe under
30 were made so
finding one is very unlikely and also going to be expensive to acquire
never mind restore.

So Unibus PDP-11s, they were largely going away by the late 70s to mid
80s with maybe 15000 made
 where Qbus 11s were ramping up from about 76 on though relatively
recently with something north
of 50,000 made.  Easier to find and fix too as they used parts that
aren't quite as extinct.  Its also good
that the early MicroVAX used the same bus and IO boards to add to the
supply.

Same would apply to the PDP-5, 12 and later its follow on the PDP8.  The
Omnibus 8s are easier
to find and fix compared to the 8I/L and earlier machines, less costly
too. 

There are other machines like Data General to consider as well.  Or
likely things that were
common in your geography.

Me, I've only been collecting since the mid 70s so patience has been an aid.


Allison

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Ian S. King]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Brad H  wrote:

>
>
> That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?
>
>
> Keep in mind that the 8/I is a fairly substantial investment in space and
weight.  Also, if you want to add something, it's not as easy as plugging a
card into a backplane.  The 8/I requires wirewrap work.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 11/29/2016 8:17 PM, Brad H wrote:


That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: william degnan<billdeg...@gmail.com>
Date: 2016-11-29  5:13 PM  (GMT-08:00)
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:28 PM, jim stephens<jwsm...@jwsss.com>  wrote:



On 11/29/2016 3:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:


There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it_might_  be possible
to
round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the
rule.)

  Noel


He sold the boardset first, now has broken up part of the rest. parts of
the backplane were sold earlier as well.

I've watched this vendor for a while and bought some things, which were
clean.  He also sold a complete 8/E
recently and as noel said, went for $$$

thanks
Jim


I am working on liberating 10 PDP 8i's...but the guy has fallen off comms.
I plan to make a trip to the location, see what I can do.  I don't want
these, just want to help find a good home for them.

b


Just because you sent from your Samsung device, you can't bottom post?

I don't care whether it's top of bottom posting, but at least keep it 
consistent within a thread!!

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

That sounds interesting.  I imagine they'd be worth even more than an 8/E?


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: william degnan <billdeg...@gmail.com> 
Date: 2016-11-29  5:13 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> 
Subject: Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff 

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:28 PM, jim stephens <jwsm...@jwsss.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/29/2016 3:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
>> chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it_might_  be possible
>> to
>> round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the
>> rule.)
>>
>> Noel
>>
> He sold the boardset first, now has broken up part of the rest. parts of
> the backplane were sold earlier as well.
>
> I've watched this vendor for a while and bought some things, which were
> clean.  He also sold a complete 8/E
> recently and as noel said, went for $$$
>
> thanks
> Jim
>

I am working on liberating 10 PDP 8i's...but the guy has fallen off comms.
I plan to make a trip to the location, see what I can do.  I don't want
these, just want to help find a good home for them.

b

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[william degnan]

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 7:28 PM, jim stephens  wrote:

>
>
> On 11/29/2016 3:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>
>> There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
>> chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it_might_  be possible
>> to
>> round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the
>> rule.)
>>
>> Noel
>>
> He sold the boardset first, now has broken up part of the rest. parts of
> the backplane were sold earlier as well.
>
> I've watched this vendor for a while and bought some things, which were
> clean.  He also sold a complete 8/E
> recently and as noel said, went for $$$
>
> thanks
> Jim
>

I am working on liberating 10 PDP 8i's...but the guy has fallen off comms.
I plan to make a trip to the location, see what I can do.  I don't want
these, just want to help find a good home for them.

b

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[jim stephens]

On 11/29/2016 3:51 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:

There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it_might_  be possible to
round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the rule.)

Noel
He sold the boardset first, now has broken up part of the rest. parts of 
the backplane were sold earlier as well.


I've watched this vendor for a while and bought some things, which were 
clean.  He also sold a complete 8/E

recently and as noel said, went for $$$

thanks
Jim

Re: Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Brad H

> I was thinking about trying to acquire something early 70s...

Anything DEC early 70's is going to be fairly expensive, alas. Only once one
gets to QBUS -11's does the price come down.

> if it is feasible to buy in pieces .. but is dependent on parts
> availability

I would not recommend this route. Those machines are a lot of bits and
pieces, and if you buy a few, unless you're incredibly lucky, it will take
forever for the rest of them to show up. There will be a few things that just
never show. (Even when buying a 'complete' system, one will often find that
it has been robbed of a few critical components, probably cannabilized to
keep another machine running BITD.)

There might be a rare exception (I see the guys in Mahwah selling a PDP-8
chassis, and also a front panel with switches, and it _might_ be possible to
round up all the boards - but that's more like the exception than the rule.)

Noel

Thinking about acquiring PDP stuff

[Brad H]

Apart from my Rainbow I don't really have any DEC stuff.  So I was thinking 
about trying to acquire something early 70s... like a PDP8/E or similar.  I 
don't see them for sale often and I notice that DEC stuff is hotly contested on 
ebay.  Wondering what a complete 8/E would run in working or non working 
condition, or if it is feasible to buy in pieces (I did this with some other 
equipment I have.. allowed me to spread out the cost.. but is dependent on 
parts availability).
Advice/thoughts most welcome.


Sent from my Samsung device