[cctalk] Re: VCF West Aug 2 & 3 - Mountain View, CA
Well I managed to make it to the 2nd day of VCF-West. Very nice. I haven't been to many of them (this was my third one) but by far this was the best, and at least to me, most heavily attended one I had seen. The age group of participants was also significantly different. Lots of younger folks, couples doing dates, and kids. The exhibits were also really interesting a bit Mac heavy but that is understandable. For those that went anybody have pictures up yet? -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF West Aug 2 & 3 - Mountain View, CA
On Fri, Aug 2, 2024, 7:52 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Today was great! > > Yes, they do sell tickets at the door. > > but, . . . > They don't take CASH! > "Legal tender for all debts public or private", but they don't take it! > > Lots of great exhibits > > There was a substantial pile of Dell 5150 and 5160 laptops on the "FREE" > table. Dell 5150 is unrelated to IBM 5150, nor to a 3-day hold. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com I saw you, but you didn't hear me 😞 Sellam
[cctalk] Re: VCF West Aug 2 & 3 - Mountain View, CA
On Fri, Aug 2, 2024, 7:52 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > "Legal tender for all debts public or private", but they don't take it! > Correct, they don't, so there never was a debt.
[cctalk] Re: VCF West Aug 2 & 3 - Mountain View, CA
Today was great! Yes, they do sell tickets at the door. but, . . . They don't take CASH! "Legal tender for all debts public or private", but they don't take it! Lots of great exhibits There was a substantial pile of Dell 5150 and 5160 laptops on the "FREE" table. Dell 5150 is unrelated to IBM 5150, nor to a 3-day hold. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] VCF West Aug 2 & 3 - Mountain View, CA
Info here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Tickets are available here <https://connect.computerhistory.org/events/1ffceb98-f556-df49-f011-424756803aab> Speakers List <https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-speakers/> Exhibitors List <https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-exhibits/> Program Book <https://vcfed.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/VCF_West_2024_Program_Book.pdf> Take care! Jeff Brace
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
Q: Will a schedule of speakers be posted?Fred,Try https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-exhibits/-Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ says: "The full schedule of speakers and show attractions will be posted at a later date. "Special attractions: ** Details will be added as they are finalized. Please check back for updates! **" Q: Will a schedule of speakers be posted?
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
>Having been to VCF-West many times in the past, >I'd be very surprised if you can't just show up Friday or Saturday and buy >tickets there at the CHM. >I always did. >(Exhibitors are setting up today and that probably consumes all the time of the >volunteers that make this event possible. So if you get no reply, that's >probably why.) >seeya there! Thanks. Yeah that was my backup plan as I had seen sales on site before as well. For anyone else following the thread the link on the vcfed.org site given here: https://vcfed.org/2024/06/16/vcf-west-2024-tickets-available-now/ is incorrect. The correct working link is: https://connect.computerhistory.org/events/1ffceb98-f556-df49-f011-424756803aab See (some of you) this weekend -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
I asked a woman if she was dating anyone, and she said yes. So I said great, if you date anyone you'll date me then too On Thu, Aug 1, 2024, 2:41 PM Ali via cctalk wrote: > > > https://vcfed.org/contact-us/ > > There doesn't seem to be an exact contact for VCF-West so I sent an email > to the general info box. Let's see if anyone responds. > > -Ali > >
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
Having been to VCF-West many times in the past, I'd be very surprised if you can't just show up Friday or Saturday and buy tickets there at the CHM. I always did. (Exhibitors are setting up today and that probably consumes all the time of the volunteers that make this event possible. So if you get no reply, that's probably why.) seeya there! -- strick
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
> https://vcfed.org/contact-us/ There doesn't seem to be an exact contact for VCF-West so I sent an email to the general info box. Let's see if anyone responds. -Ali
[cctalk] Re: VCF-West
On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 11:34 AM Ali via cctalk wrote: > Hello All, > > I was trying to buy tickets for VCF-West and the ticketing system (through > CHM) seems to be down. Anyone have more info or an ETA on repairs? Thanks. > > -Ali > https://vcfed.org/contact-us/
[cctalk] VCF-West
Hello All, I was trying to buy tickets for VCF-West and the ticketing system (through CHM) seems to be down. Anyone have more info or an ETA on repairs? Thanks. -Ali
[cctalk] VCF West tickets available now! Aug 2 & 3 @ CHM
Tickets for VCF West 2024 Aug 2 & 3, Mountain View, CA The show is looking to be bigger than ever! We will again be at The Computer History Museum. Tickets available through this link: https://buy.acmeticketing.com/events/499/list Existing VCF Members were emailed the coupon code for their 20% discount. New members can email us after creating their membership to get the code.
[cctalk] VCF West Aug 2 & 3, 2024 - Mountain View, CA
Hello folks, We're less than a month away from shutting down exhibit and speaker registrations for VCF West. The July 4th weekend represents the end of both so I can use the rest of July to get the program built, get the floorplan finalized, create schedules, etc. So if you've been waiting to get your exhibit or talk registered, wait no more! We still have room for both, but I can't promise that will last all the way until July! This year's show is already shaping up to be a great one so you don't want to miss it! As always, details are at https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Attendee ticketing information and pre-orders will be posted soon. If you have any questions, comments, concerns or -especially- if you would like to volunteer to help with the show, please let me know at this email address. Thank you! Erik Klein VCF West Showrunner
[cctalk] VCF West 2022 Info
This is the latest blog post about VCF West: https://vcfed.org/2022/07/21/vcf-west-2022-aug-6-7-great-speakers-exhibits-and-consignment/ For those doing consignment there is a new procedure. Please look at it here: https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-consignment/ We are doing a Point Of Sale system so Excel spreadsheets need to be submitted instead of paper. It will help streamline the process and reduce time and errors. Thanks!
[cctalk] Re: VCF West?
Yes, there very much is a VCF West!!! https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/vcf-west-exhibits/ Cheers, Lyle -- On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 14:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Is there going to be one this year? > > > Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? > (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?) > -- 73 NM6Y Bickley Consulting West https://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"
[cctalk] Re: VCF West?
On 2022-07-26 17:19, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Is there going to be one this year? Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?) https://vcfed.org/events/vintage-computer-festival-west/ August 6 & 7, 2022
[cctalk] VCF West?
Is there going to be one this year? Is there a reason why it never gets mentioned here? (are there some personal issues that I shouldn't even ask about?)
Re: VCF west is happening this weekend
On 8/5/21 5:57 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote: It will be at the CHM. The museum is still closed but VCF will be happening. To be consistent with current Santa Clara covid conditions, bring your mask. see: https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ I hope to see you all there. Bought my two day ticket a few weeks ago. Digging up some goodies for the consignment room now - Tek 454 & Dumont scopes, an Altos 5, an HP Z80 emulator, who knows what else will find it's way into the car... Plan to get there tomorrow circa 5PM to unload, unless that option's been revoked. --S.
VCF west is happening this weekend
It will be at the CHM. The museum is still closed but VCF will be happening. To be consistent with current Santa Clara covid conditions, bring your mask. see: https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ I hope to see you all there. Dwight Vintage Computer Festival West 2021 – Vintage Computer Federation - VCF<https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/> Updated 2021-05-23. VCF West is for everyone! Computer geeks, families/children, students, collectors, IT professionals, curious onlookers… VCF West 2021 vcfed.org
Re: VCF - west!
On Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 4:16 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2021, Mark Huffstutter wrote: > > It sure is, Fred! I bought My tickets, and now it looks likely I won't > be able to attend > > It's coming right up. > > https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ > > GREAT! > > That says: > Saturday, August 7 (2021) 10:00 - 6:00 > Sunday, August 8 9:00 - 5:00 > Sadly, that's the one weekend all summer and fall that I can't get away... :( Warner >
RE: VCF - west!
On Thu, 29 Jul 2021, Mark Huffstutter wrote: It sure is, Fred! I bought My tickets, and now it looks likely I won't be able to attend It's coming right up. https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ GREAT! That says: Saturday, August 7 (2021) 10:00 - 6:00 Sunday, August 8 9:00 - 5:00
RE: VCF - west?
It sure is, Fred! I bought My tickets, and now it looks likely I won't be able to attend It's coming right up. https://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ Mark -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via cctalk Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 2:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: VCF - west? I heard a rumor that VCF is going to happen again! But, I have seen NO MENTION of that on this mailing list. Is it happening? Will everybody be there? It is now relatively short notice, and between that, not having a station wagon or van, and health issues, I won't be able to pack up and bring a suitable mass of stuff to peddle on consignment. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
VCF - west?
I heard a rumor that VCF is going to happen again! But, I have seen NO MENTION of that on this mailing list. Is it happening? Will everybody be there? It is now relatively short notice, and between that, not having a station wagon or van, and health issues, I won't be able to pack up and bring a suitable mass of stuff to peddle on consignment. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: (Virtual) VCF West is this weekend - tune in!
There is almost enough to split to two days. The original schedule showed 2 days so it is just the single packed day? Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Michael Brutman via cctalk Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2020 5:52 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: (Virtual) VCF West is this weekend - tune in! Join us on August first for a virtual VCF event! We can't safely meet in person so we are going to do what we can online. The good news is that you can tune-in via YouTube and ask questions of the presenters via email, enabling anybody in the world with a modest Internet connection to participate. The event schedule can be found at http://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-west-event-schedule/ . It will be a long day so tune in for what you can, and then find the rest available on YouTube afterwards. -Mike
(Virtual) VCF West is this weekend - tune in!
Join us on August first for a virtual VCF event! We can't safely meet in person so we are going to do what we can online. The good news is that you can tune-in via YouTube and ask questions of the presenters via email, enabling anybody in the world with a modest Internet connection to participate. The event schedule can be found at http://vcfed.org/wp/vcf-west-event-schedule/ . It will be a long day so tune in for what you can, and then find the rest available on YouTube afterwards. -Mike
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
On Tue, Aug 06, 2019 at 07:54:21PM +0200, Ed C. via cctalk wrote: > Thanks for sharing! Yes, thanks for sharing. I have finally came to reading this thread (I am of the anonymous time waster type) and I find the photographs very interesting. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
VCF West 2019 Visitor Survey
Before VCF West 2019 becomes too much of a pleasant memory ... We'd like to hear from you! This should take less than two minutes: http://vcfed.org/vcf-survey Tell us what we did well and where we need improvement. Or contact me directly. We're not fussy, and we want to do better at our future events. Mike
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
so 17 unique Apple-1 computers, not counting the one in the CHM collection ,were on the floor at one time or another over the weekend So, doing some simple math: 18 of ~70 remaining is .25xxx ... so 25% of all Apple 1s in existence were there! There hasn't been that many in one place since 1976. Pretty cool if you ask me. :)
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
Glad to see people showing the Fabritek some love! We have several if these at SMECC.. one can be traded off for another trainer or? Great display of trainers and single board things! I have a fascination with the trainers... We have one built by IBM that to date no one can identify date etc. Here is link to this. (https://www.smecc.org/wpe_files/wpe45.jpg) see item on left. This trainer uses standard consumer IBM vacuum tube plug-able units Does anyone have one also? I would like to get a power supply or schematic for one to demo it.- Ed# In a message dated 8/6/2019 10:38:42 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 8/6/19 10:13 AM, Brian K. Perry via cctalk wrote: > Thought I would share some photos I took of VCF West this past weekend in > Mountain View, CA. > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/gF6Sd34SxQMzJEZPA Any (more) photos of Cameron's RISC laptops and portables exhibits? Or the IPX lunchbox exhibit (so I can compare it to my exhibit at last year's VCF PNW)? alan
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
That must have been photos from Saturday morning, by Saturday afternoon we had to rearrange the Apple-1 cases because we had 14 at the show at once with a minimum of 2 continually running and we were working on repairing some on the table behind the one with Marco Boglione’s Apple-1 playing music. We got 4 more running and 1 we started but didn’t finish because we ran out of time. We even had a few show up on Sunday that didn’t RSVP they were coming, so 17 unique Apple-1 computers, not counting the one in the CHM collection ,were on the floor at one time or another over the weekend. It was so crazy I never even powered mine up, though mine is usually shown running at VCF east so no excitement having it run. You also missed getting a picture of the AGC opened up. The guys who did the restoration of operational one on Sunday opened up the AGC so you could see the modules inside. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:10 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: >> Any (more) photos of Cameron's RISC laptops and portables exhibits? > > I'll be putting up my own soonish as soon as I can escape from $DAYJOB. > > -- > personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ > -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com > -- Blanket statements are always wrong. > ---
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
> Any (more) photos of Cameron's RISC laptops and portables exhibits? I'll be putting up my own soonish as soon as I can escape from $DAYJOB. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Blanket statements are always wrong. ---
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
Thanks for sharing! On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:14 PM Brian K. Perry via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Thought I would share some photos I took of VCF West this past weekend in > Mountain View, CA. > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/gF6Sd34SxQMzJEZPA > > Brian >
Re: Photos from VCF West 2019
On 8/6/19 10:13 AM, Brian K. Perry via cctalk wrote: Thought I would share some photos I took of VCF West this past weekend in Mountain View, CA. https://photos.app.goo.gl/gF6Sd34SxQMzJEZPA Any (more) photos of Cameron's RISC laptops and portables exhibits? Or the IPX lunchbox exhibit (so I can compare it to my exhibit at last year's VCF PNW)? alan
Photos from VCF West 2019
Thought I would share some photos I took of VCF West this past weekend in Mountain View, CA. https://photos.app.goo.gl/gF6Sd34SxQMzJEZPA Brian
Re: VCF West?
On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 4:19 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk
wrote:
> >> our legendary VCF consignment sale,
> On Thu, 1 Aug 2019, Ali via cctalk wrote:
> > Maybe at the other meets (e.g. MW or Pacific NW) but the last few times
> not so much at VCFW. Last year I bought some stuff because Fred
> specifically brought stuff for me.
>
> I don't know about "legendary"; I'd reserve that for Sellam's early events
> which were more like a flea market plus exhibits. BUT, I was very pleased
> with how consignment was managed last year. I was surprised at how
> thoroughly the "FREE" table cleared.
>
> >> great food
> > Yeah. Not quite ;)
>
> Well, it wasn't bad. Not great; but OK.
> Much like Diogenes' favorite wine :-)
>
> >> , and incredible company/friends!
> > This now be true!
>
> And how!
>
> > Honestly the exhibits are great, the CHM access is an awesome bonus and
> > do what I do eat off site...
> > Unfortunately I will be missing it this year.
>
> It's a maybe whether I can manage to get there this year.
> But, I won't be able to take a carload of stuff.
>
> > p.s. Is this one of those thread jacking incidence you were talking
> about? ;)
> Well, announcement of Apple Ones is certain to bring about arguments about
> the machine. I think that one is well worth $666.66 but not what people
> are paying for them.
>
> This "thread jacking" continuous heading off on tangents is the basis of
> Vannevar Bush's dislike of hierarchical organization of information, Ted
> Nelson's "Hypertext", and Berners-Lee's WWW.
>
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
As if anyone needed any further incentive to come to VCF, but I dragged
along a couple of personal items for consignment just in case anyone needed
any /enticement/:
- Terak 8510
- Xerox 6085 ("Daybreak")
Now you all have to come and buy my stuff (so I can fund a computer rescue,
help!)
- Josh
RE: VCF West?
our legendary VCF consignment sale, On Thu, 1 Aug 2019, Ali via cctalk wrote: Maybe at the other meets (e.g. MW or Pacific NW) but the last few times not so much at VCFW. Last year I bought some stuff because Fred specifically brought stuff for me. I don't know about "legendary"; I'd reserve that for Sellam's early events which were more like a flea market plus exhibits. BUT, I was very pleased with how consignment was managed last year. I was surprised at how thoroughly the "FREE" table cleared. great food Yeah. Not quite ;) Well, it wasn't bad. Not great; but OK. Much like Diogenes' favorite wine :-) , and incredible company/friends! This now be true! And how! Honestly the exhibits are great, the CHM access is an awesome bonus and do what I do eat off site... Unfortunately I will be missing it this year. It's a maybe whether I can manage to get there this year. But, I won't be able to take a carload of stuff. p.s. Is this one of those thread jacking incidence you were talking about? ;) Well, announcement of Apple Ones is certain to bring about arguments about the machine. I think that one is well worth $666.66 but not what people are paying for them. This "thread jacking" continuous heading off on tangents is the basis of Vannevar Bush's dislike of hierarchical organization of information, Ted Nelson's "Hypertext", and Berners-Lee's WWW. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: VCF West?
On 8/1/19 11:04 AM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote: > Exhibit list looks nicely varied, though it would have been nice to see an > exhibit and/or talk about Bill Godbout They've been too busy worrying about guards with firearms.
RE: VCF West?
> our legendary VCF consignment sale, Maybe at the other meets (e.g. MW or Pacific NW) but the last few times not so much at VCFW. Last year I bought some stuff because Fred specifically brought stuff for me. > great food Yeah. Not quite ;) >, and incredible company/friends! This now be true! Honestly the exhibits are great, the CHM access is an awesome bonus and do what I do eat off site... Unfortunately I will be missing it this year. -Ali p.s. Is this one of those thread jacking incidence you were talking about? ;)
Re: VCF West?
On 07/30/2019 23:43, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? (other than Apple oneS) Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? On Tuesday a colleague at $WORK reposted the Hackaday announcement, and he's far from the ccmp crowd. So word is getting around a little bit. Evan's blog post didn't include a link to buy tickets, though the full event page does. They are being handled through EventBrite: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/vintage-computer-festival-west-tickets-63097131218 Exhibit list looks nicely varied, though it would have been nice to see an exhibit and/or talk about Bill Godbout and the role he played. (Yeah yeah, I can already hear somebody saying, "DIY!") --S.
Re: VCF West?
>> I see it's already been dropped there to promote VCF MW I don't know what you mean. "Dropped there to promote Midwest" ... that is false. VCF West is atop our website header, our blog page, and the VC Forum header. It's true that we are focusing more on social media. There are a couple of dozen Facebook groups for various aspects of retrocomputing that * each * have multiple thousands of users. I think it's safe to say that people here on Cctalk already know about VCF events. Usually, when I do post about our events here, the response is either crickets or threadjacking.
Re: VCF West?
There have been lots of mentions of VCF West on social media and I think even in the press. I’m heading out to the west coast right now for the show and it’s going to be one for the record books. There are more exhibitors (35+) then ever before and lots of cool talks. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 31, 2019, at 2:43 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? > (other than Apple oneS) > > Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? > > > I was planning to take a carload of stuff down for consignment, but my health > has been too bad to even load the car.
Re: VCF West?
Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? (other than Apple oneS) Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? I was planning to take a carload of stuff down for consignment, but my health has been too bad to even load the car. Because we're very busy planning a kick-ass event, and every time we post here on cctalk it falls into an endless stream off threadjacking? :) VCF West 2019 is indeed this weekend, August 3-4, as always at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. This year's special attractions/speakers include: - The aforementioned Apple 1 gathering. Before we said there will be "at least" 10 original systems. Now it's looking like 12-15. Woz can't make it this year, but Dan Kottke and other very early employees will be there, along with Corey Cohen who is the go-to evaluator/restorer for the major auction houses. - A presentation about the Apollo Guidance Computer. Frank O'Brien (who literally wrote the book about AGC architecture/operation) and CHM restorer Carl Claunch will both be there. - Everyone's favorite Commodore engineer, Bil Herd, will give a lecture about the affects of age and heat on computer components. - What else? Enigma machines, more CHM restoration projects, three dozen amazing exhibits, our legendary VCF consignment sale, CHM museum tours, great food, and incredible company/friends! - Super-big-thanks to our sponsor Hackaday, and also to CHM for hosting us, ACM for advertising our events on social media, and "viewers like you" (so to speak) without which Vintage Computer Federation would have no purpose. :) - Tickets are available online and at the door. - See all of the details at http://www.vcfed.org/vcfwest
Final reminder, VCF West
VCF West is this weekend at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. All of the details (and online ticket sales) are at http://vcfed.org/vcfwest. -Evan K.
Re: VCF West?
> > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? > > Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? > > I has been embarassingly underpromoted. Well, I'll be there. I put a lot of midnight oil into getting the hosts configured and they'll be on display. Couldn't get everything done for various technical reasons though. -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Babylon 5, "Deathwalker" --
Re: VCF West?
> The only mention I've heard of the event is that the main attraction is 10 > of the exact same boring, single-board, extremely simple, but incredibly > expensive computer. Perhaps an overrated collectible, rather than an > interesting technological showcase- my interests focus more toward the > latter. > > That said, in spite of the main 'attraction,' I'm excited to see many of > you and will be there this weekend. Come by and check out my RISC tops! I spent all week configuring them for the show ... -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- FORTUNE: Expect bright evenings, especially from the cop car lights. ---
Re: VCF West?
On Jul 30, 2019, at 11:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? Some of us have been busy trying to prep for it. :) -- Chris
Re: VCF West?
On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 2:02 PM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 7/30/19 11:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? > > Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? > > I has been embarassingly underpromoted. > They couldn't even get the promo right on the http://www.vcfed.org banner > for months > and I see it's already been dropped there to promote VCF MW > > > I haven't heard much either, maybe it's all on Facebook and such. The old mailing lists are being ignored? b Bill
Re: VCF West?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote: The only mention I've heard of the event is that the main attraction is 10 of the exact same boring, single-board, extremely simple, but incredibly expensive computer. Perhaps an overrated collectible, rather than an interesting technological showcase- my interests focus more toward the latter. I find it interesting. It was not incredibly expensive at $666.66 But, crazy collectors can really make a mess of prices. There will also be Apollo Guidance Computer And Bill Herd speaking. The tiny exhibits are fascinating. Last year, I was over in consignment, and didn't get to see much of them, other than to get Tim Paterson's autograph for Richard. I hope the turnout is better than we expect... Let's hope so! I'd like to see it work out so well that it becomes worthwhile to hold it twice a year. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: VCF West?
On Wed, 31 Jul 2019, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: I has been embarassingly underpromoted. Is it so great that it promotes itself, even with their light hidden under a bushel? (well, I think so) I realize that this group is pretty harsh in response to any OVER-promotion, but nobody would make THAT accusation. It has always been a great show, and the producers are to be heartily commended. But, it wouldn't hurt to send a reminder or two! Spread the word. I'm going to try hard to go. Even if I won't have stuff packed up to dump^H^H^H^H pass on to the other attendees. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: VCF West?
The only mention I've heard of the event is that the main attraction is 10 of the exact same boring, single-board, extremely simple, but incredibly expensive computer. Perhaps an overrated collectible, rather than an interesting technological showcase- my interests focus more toward the latter. That said, in spite of the main 'attraction,' I'm excited to see many of you and will be there this weekend. I hope the turnout is better than we expect... On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 11:02 AM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 7/30/19 11:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? > > Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? > > I has been embarassingly underpromoted. > They couldn't even get the promo right on the http://www.vcfed.org banner > for months > and I see it's already been dropped there to promote VCF MW > > > >
Re: VCF West?
On 7/30/19 11:43 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? > Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? I has been embarassingly underpromoted. They couldn't even get the promo right on the http://www.vcfed.org banner for months and I see it's already been dropped there to promote VCF MW
VCF West?
Is there a reason why there has been no mention of VCF West? (other than Apple oneS) Isn't it scheduled for this coming weekend? I was planning to take a carload of stuff down for consignment, but my health has been too bad to even load the car.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Tor Arntsen via cctalk writes: > On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 18:19, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > >> What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm >> often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon >> which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been >> invaluable in this respect. > > I collect all the documentation I can find (including my own old notes > when I can find them). It's really hard to figure out exactly how > something works when documentation is lost and there's nobody around > with the knowledge. This was by far the biggest challenge I had when writing the 3B2/400 simulator for SIMH. Documentation was scarce or nonexistent for almost every aspect of the 3B2 system board internals, and I had to work out a lot of it myself by watching a logic analyzer. Thankfully, as the emulator progressed and word got out, it attracted the attention of some people with very useful documentation who kindly offered it to me. I've been hoarding what I can find and scanning it as fast as possible to get it all archived online in digital form as well as maintaining the original physical copies. But as a result, I'm keenly aware of how much this stuff is ephemeral. There are still lots and lots of AT&T publications relating to the 3B2 that are (as far as I can tell) lost to history and probably gone forever. -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA, USA w...@loomcom.com
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 06:04, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > Be careful about taunting a time traveller. > He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Oh no! Roko's basilisk! You've wok+++ATH NO CARRIER
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 18:19, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. I collect all the documentation I can find (including my own old notes when I can find them). It's really hard to figure out exactly how something works when documentation is lost and there's nobody around with the knowledge. When I visited Ise shrine in Japan some years ago they were in the middle of building a completely new wooden bridge beside the existing one. They were building new temples as well. Turned out that every twenty years they routinely rebuild *everything*, including the items inside the temples and buildings. Then they tear down the old ones (and use the old material at other sites around the country). And still they claimed that the temples. bridges, items etc. had been there since around 1200 AD. I was a bit baffled about this, but when I had lunch in the nearest town a waiter noticed the foreigner and gave me a booklet to read. It was all explained there. It's simple enough: What they feel as important to preserve is the knowledge about how to build these things. The craftmanship and the artistry. 20 years is just about right - it's enough to hand over the craft to another generation, with overlap. And they've been doing this for hundreds of years. So, what is worth preserving is the *howto*, not the actual old things which would just detoriate more and more over time and eventually disappear. That's just "stuff", and immaterial, as it were. And, as I once witnessed a Viking ship replica going under in bad weather due to something not fully correct in the understanding of exactly how to construct a specific part of the bottom of the ship, I can fully appreciate the thinking. Knowledge gained over hundreds of years in wooden ship building can be lost over a generation or two, even if there's still a parallel tradition of building other types of boats. Which turned out not to be enough to understand how it was done. It can be painfully difficult to recreate, figure out, and document something that's lost, even if you have an old original in bad shape to look at. Which is why they've worked for decades at e.g. Roskilde in Denmark to recreate the knowledge. And the last time I visited that site they still couldn't build as well as the old builders, there was a newly built replica of a small boat where they had a beatifully preserved original nearby - the original still looked better. Give them a decade or two more, and it'll improve I'm sure.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? Awesomeness. The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? You'd be surprised. There is a whole library of software out there. I hope they’re not crowding out anything Nope. Plenty of room for everyone.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Yes Evan, you mentioned that. I know; ergo my use of a smiley there...
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 09:04:38PM -0700, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > >That is him. > >I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories [...] > > Be careful about taunting a time traveller. > He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Ah. Ok, you have convinced me. Sorry, John Titor. BTW, you would like a ride to the past? I would like a ride to the future. Although from what I have seen so far, maybe not... -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: That is him. I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories about how he conducts various petty crimes in a past in order to get hold of many precious classic computers. So that he could easily retire like some of use would like to (but no way, no Apple-1 for us). Be careful about taunting a time traveller. He might read what you write and it might give him ideas. Then you might suddenly find that he has become your grandfather. Or his own grandfather.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 10:02:27PM -0500, John Herron wrote: > Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to > be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. That is him. > I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and > calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I > coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. I thought that some fun could be made of him: invent some stories about how he conducts various petty crimes in a past in order to get hold of many precious classic computers. So that he could easily retire like some of use would like to (but no way, no Apple-1 for us). So, he could be sitting now (his "now", in the year, say, 2050), reading archives of this group and spraying his pinacolada on the monitor when he reads about his fictional misdeeds. And those stories would have been from his past, so he could not go back to correct me, for example, without changing his timeline. Well, on the other hand, if he is some kind of local incognito saint in the group, and I had no idea, than maybe making up stories about him is not the best idea. Is there any better way to play joke on John Titor? > Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) Yes, and get caught in a photo... -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 1:09 PM Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, John Herron via cctalk wrote: Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) I have publicly offered: If John Titor will give me a ONE WAY ride to 1960, I will get him his 5100, with both BASIC AND APL, and make some investments to fund his entire project. The investments will include only a few Apple 1 computers, because they will need to be discreet and low profile, although it would be very tempting to make a few "adjustments" to history. If the ride is ROUND-TRIP, then all he gets is a good look at a 5100. I'll take the long way back.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Maybe I should Google this but I thought John Titor was the man claiming to be from the future and looking for an IBM 5100 for the ability to run APL. I'm not familiar with any apple 1 story but I remember him posting and calling in to a night time radio show. I didn't follow everything so I coulda missed something or maybe it was a different Titor claimee. Maybe he'd be one of the folks who brings one? :-) On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 1:09 PM Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I > board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits > on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Jul 5, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? I have heard that there is quite a bit of variation from one to the next. But I haven't had the chance to see several side by side to compare. It hadn't yet reached the stage of mass production of absolutley identical units. The PEOPLE who have them, and the stories about how they got into it are also interesting. Even the people who bought into it more recently. "WHY?" "If you're willing to pay that kind of money, maybe you should come look at some of the stuff that I no longer need." The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? I hope they’re not crowding out anything more interesting. Not to worry. Evan is very capable of expanding the space if it gets too crowded, rather than turning away anything that is more interesting. If anything, having the crowds all clustered around the "artifacts of divine provenance" will make it less crowded around the good stuff! I hope that my health holds up well enough to fill the consignment area with a few cubic meters of stuff that I need to get out of my house. And, not to worry, I will not be bringing any Apple 1 computers. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Jul 5, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at > VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Why? That is, what’s the advantage of having 10+ instead of one or two? The Apple I never did very much, so is there really much to actually show on them? I hope they’re not crowding out anything more interesting. -- Chris
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019, Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :) To some yuppies, the cost is something to brag about being able to afford. To the truly wealthy, it is irrelevant. If Bill Gates wanted one, he would not have to economize elsewhere to afford it. And there are a lot of billionaires today. It would be a trivial expense for the nostalgia, or the "I wanted one, and couldn't get one then; but now I can." For your panel, a few questions to put to them: 1) Did you get one when they were current, or more recently? 2) For each of those two groups, WHY did you get one? 3) Did you later get an Apple ][?
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Yes Evan, you mentioned that. Eventually there will be people settling estates. The first ones sold will do well but eventually, even those that want bragging rights will have little interest in such items. Apple is already at a point that they no longer have a hold on the market. They may be able to get a couple more geeky gotta have items, like the watch, but their days are already numbered. Their computers are virtually unrepairable, if something goes wrong( talk to anyone that has one but maybe just because of their own policies, not that the hardware is any worse or better than anyone else's ). I expect that Apple-1s will hold their value for at least the rest of my life time, if not go up more. So, what should I care. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Evan Koblentz via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 1:10 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West > The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, > would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just > an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. Don't underestimate the force of "bragging rights" to people who can afford such things. Many of them buy an Apple 1 because they can, not because it's an investment. Anyway: we're having at least 10 of 'em at VCF West, did I mention that? :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 01:30:36PM -0500, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > At 01:09 PM 7/8/2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: > >Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard > >alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender > >and the rest. > > What? Why? I must have a few in the warehouse... Cool. I have got the number from some keyboard-0-prn websites, given in Deutsche Marks, translated liberally to more current currency. I cannot tell if number was right, but if it was right few years ago then I would expect it to only go up over time. Lucky you! -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The value of Apple 1s are clearly a combination of many things. They're about a factor of 500x because they were Apples first product. There is no question about that. Other factors include limited run. The fact that may were turned in for credit to get an Apple II made them even rarer. Value is what the buyer will pay. At $600+ they were not attractive to me at the time because at that time, I could get a working, used, S-100 for $400. Even when the Apple II came out, its limited expansion were not of interest to me. Apple's hardware design was poor ( the disk system is an example ). Another was blowing out printer interfaces because you tuned them on in the wrong order. Even the selection of the 6502 was based on how cheap one could make a computer for the masses ( not saying that the 6502 wasn't a good design, only that the selection was based on cost, not quality received ). Rare is not equal to valuable. Rare and desired combine to make value. If I didn't expect to make a profit I'd not personally buy an apple 1 for more than $200. I don't have the funds to buy one at the current rate. Like many stocks, I personally think it is over valued. I think that some day the value will drop. I couldn't guess as to how much. The only people growing up today that would pay anything like that amount, would only pay that much because they expected to make a profit. It is just an investment. As a museum item, it is interesting. I do wish I'd bought one when I started. I'd not have it today, though. When the value went over a few tens of thousands, I'm sure I'd have sold it. All stated, buy me, are just opinions. Done take offense as none was intended. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of corey cohen via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 8, 2019 8:10 AM To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West The high price isn’t a Steve Jobs distortion field. The Apple-1 was collectible in the 1980’s before Jobs became the one we all remember. The Apple-1 was really the 1st collectible personal computer and it was produced in very limited numbers for a very short time and was tied the grandparent to the Apple II and all other Apple products. As for the replicas being more reliable, only if they are built using modern sockets with modern caps and TTL chips where possible. The original boards still differ a lot from the replicas because the techniques used to make the PCB boards are no longer used or legal due to environmental laws and the dying art of how they made PCBs in the 70’s. As for why a replica can cost so much, look at the prices for some of the items on the Apple-1 like the ceramic 6502, the shift registers or RAM. They aren’t expensive because they are on an Apple-1, but there are people who collect those vintage chips also. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >>> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >>> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >>> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 >> >> No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? >> >> The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs >> (reality distortion field.) > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. > > --Chuck > > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 9:19 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. > Thanks, Chuck. Keeping old information available is why I spend so much time/money on doing it.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
At 01:09 PM 7/8/2019, Tomasz Rola via cctalk wrote: >Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard >alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender >and the rest. What? Why? I must have a few in the warehouse... - John
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, Jul 08, 2019 at 09:19:09AM -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 7/8/19 8:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > > > > Spoken like a non-collector. :-) > > I suppose that's the root of it. I'm basically a pragmatist. I give > away old hardware that no longer has any use to me. When I am > eventually forced to downsize, (or my widow is) most of the stuff will > go either to the recyclers or to the landfill. I am not my possessions. > > I recall the Homebrew CC at SLAC auditorium where the Apple I was rolled > out for a special price. Since I already had a MITS box, I wasn't very > enthusiastic about laying out cash for a single-board microcomputer--a > feeling shared by several other people I knew. At any rate, if I'd > have sprung for one, it'd be gone by now, as its utility has long passed. Yeah. I was a proud owner of Amiga 2000C... or B. A big box with place for cards, and a memory extension inside (i.e. one slot filled), and two click-click-click-ing floppy drives. And a standalone mech keyboard. And green monocolor monitor. When I went to buy a 486, I had to sell it in second hand shop to raise money. It went for 600 Polish zloty (about 1/5 of 486 price), which (I estimate) was about 200-300 buckies at the time. Now they tell me (bastards!) that said keyboard alone can go for 1000+ euros. And never mind the big box, mem extender and the rest. But like you say. Amiga had less _practical_ value at that time than a lousy PC, which came with a hard drive (finally, I could install Linux and run LaTeX on it) and VGA (Doom!! UFO: Enemy Unknown), color monitor, not blinking at 640x400... Much better for anything I wanted to do with a computer then and now. So be it. I rarely do such things as remembering past decisions which later proved to be wrong, and bitching and whipping myself in guilt - especially if at the particular time it was the best decision I could have made. Now if any of you guys ever see an Amiga 2000 with small green happy dragon stickered to the keyboard, say "hello, little ami" from me. > While I can appreciate painted artworks for the genius behind them, I'm > fully aware that they're just blobs of paint on a bit of canvas or wood > and that an accurate replica could be fashioned without too much trouble > using modern technology. > > What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm > often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon > which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been > invaluable in this respect. I stick around here mostly for learning. I am almost an informational omnivore (limiting to subjects of interest at the time), so I get everything. Stories about smoking caps. Or how a mainframe warmed water in open swimming pool. Or even how John Titor swindled Apple I board supposed to be owned by Guy D from under his nose and now sits on many such boards, retired and sipping pinacolada. Reading archives of this list and planning whose basement to rummage in a night after funeral. C'mon folks. Let's make cruel jokes at him. He cannot do a shit about it, or else he will ruin his future :-). > As far as owning a watch that was worn by Charles Lindbergh, okay, if it > keeps good time; otherwise, not so much. You have not weared a watch if you did not try ones from Salvadore Dali. The lousy watchmaker's works not only cannot keep up the time, they even cannot keep up the shape. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
The high price isn’t a Steve Jobs distortion field. The Apple-1 was collectible in the 1980’s before Jobs became the one we all remember. The Apple-1 was really the 1st collectible personal computer and it was produced in very limited numbers for a very short time and was tied the grandparent to the Apple II and all other Apple products. As for the replicas being more reliable, only if they are built using modern sockets with modern caps and TTL chips where possible. The original boards still differ a lot from the replicas because the techniques used to make the PCB boards are no longer used or legal due to environmental laws and the dying art of how they made PCBs in the 70’s. As for why a replica can cost so much, look at the prices for some of the items on the Apple-1 like the ceramic 6502, the shift registers or RAM. They aren’t expensive because they are on an Apple-1, but there are people who collect those vintage chips also. Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 8, 2019, at 11:02 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >>> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >>> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >>> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 >> >> No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? >> >> The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs >> (reality distortion field.) > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. > > --Chuck > > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 8:25 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > > Spoken like a non-collector. :-) I suppose that's the root of it. I'm basically a pragmatist. I give away old hardware that no longer has any use to me. When I am eventually forced to downsize, (or my widow is) most of the stuff will go either to the recyclers or to the landfill. I am not my possessions. I recall the Homebrew CC at SLAC auditorium where the Apple I was rolled out for a special price. Since I already had a MITS box, I wasn't very enthusiastic about laying out cash for a single-board microcomputer--a feeling shared by several other people I knew. At any rate, if I'd have sprung for one, it'd be gone by now, as its utility has long passed. While I can appreciate painted artworks for the genius behind them, I'm fully aware that they're just blobs of paint on a bit of canvas or wood and that an accurate replica could be fashioned without too much trouble using modern technology. What matters to me is [b]documentation[/b], however it's preserved. I'm often faced with a bit of old data and I need to know the details upon which it was fabricated. That has value to me. Al K has been invaluable in this respect. As far as owning a watch that was worn by Charles Lindbergh, okay, if it keeps good time; otherwise, not so much. --Chuck
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 17:02, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working > replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some > additional spiritual property? > > The replica may actually be more reliable. Spoken like a non-collector. :-) It's OK, it's not condemnatory, I've just noticed some people are like that. I have seen a handful of original Leonardo da Vinci works. "Girl with ermine" was the best, for me, in Krakow. But I had the chance to see the Mona Lisa in the Louvre and the Last Supper in Milan. Both would have meant paying and queuing for hours. I said no. I'm not that into them. But of course millions do every year. I got a thrill hearing a player piano play a roll cut by Gershwin himself playing Rhapsody in Blue, though. Partly it depends what you're into, partly convenience, partly preference. I never wear designer clothes and think the whole idea is silly. (I was much impressed by Naomi Klein's /No Logo/ but I was like this before it. Recommended read anyway. It's a Liff in the Douglas Adams sense.) But designer jeans, say, I'd expect to be comfier and fit better. Designer *T-shirts* strike me as just ridiculous. It's an ordinary tee with a name printed on it. The book taught me how ludicrous that was. Would you consider working with an emulator of a vintage machine just as good as the real thing? If a Raspberry Pi, costing $35 and running on milli-Amps, could save you the hassle of running a full-size minicomputer on expensive 3-phase power and cooling -- would that be enough? If yes, then fine. Perhaps you like the PiDP-11. If no, then I get you. Part of the fun for me is that it's the real thing. I don't just want to play games on emulators. I want to experience the speed, the noise, the smells, the whole experience of using a vintage computer. But other people just want to _own_ one and would be happy with the experience of the emulator. They'd prefer their rare machine, in proper original packaging, safe in a clean dry place, and using the emulator for the fun of old games. Both are legitimate to me. My vintage machines are often a bit grubby. I don't care if they _look_ new but I want them to _work_ and work well. I max out the RAM, fit bigger disks, etc. I am not much bothered if it is stock or mint condition but working is important. For others, original packaging and it looking nice is. Thus, Retrobr1te and all that. I'd never bother. It just takes all sorts. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/8/19 7:43 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: >> Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A >> reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. >> A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 > > No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? > > The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs > (reality distortion field.) Practically speaking, what's the difference between a close working replica and the original? Are the bits somehow imbued with some additional spiritual property? The replica may actually be more reliable. --Chuck
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 No idea why people would go 5 figures on a replica that is still a replica? The only reason for the high price on the original is Steve Jobs (reality distortion field.) - Ethan
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Actually the cheapest Apple-1 reproduction is just over 4 figures. A reproduction with date correct components cost as much as 5 figures. A work-alike like a replica-1 is cheap, maybe $150 Cheers, Corey corey cohen uǝɥoɔ ʎǝɹoɔ Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 5, 2019, at 8:48 PM, Evan Koblentz via cctalk > wrote: > > >> What are the replicas gong for Evan? > > > A perfect reproduction -- for example a Mimeo will entirely date-code-correct > components -- can go for four figures. > > Most repros/replicas aren't at that level. >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
> From: Evan Koblentz > what the owners plan to do in the future. Sell the Apple I and retire to a tropical island on the proceeds, if they have any sense! :-) Noel
Apple ][ EPROM programmer Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Guy said > I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple > I, and what that mistake cost me. > > http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm You mention you were not aware of any EPROM programmer boards for the Apple ][. I had one for my taiwanese FORMOSA Apple ][ clone and I recall it could do 2716s perhaps 2732s. It was dirt cheap relative to locally bought computer gear in Australia in 1982 like all the other clone cards on offer (Z80 Softcard, printer card, language card, disk ][ card, PAL colour card, 128k ramdisk card and so on) so we got the lot. Since we had no accessible internet back then, everything was done via telexes and wire transfers at the local Post Office to Formosa's Taiwan office. The clone programmer card was very similar in size, layout and appearance to this one but I don't recall it was as sparsely populated: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cider-EPROM-Programmer-VIA-for-Apple-II-Computers/223574161149 Steve
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/6/2019 7:59 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Not many collectors back when the Apple1 came out! While the CHEAP 6502 is remembered with the Apple we must not forget that the 16 pin 4K dram really made that computer work. Regardless of the architecture, 32 KB is needed to do any useful computing work, and 1975 was the start of affordable memory. PS: Ben's 18 bit computer is BETTER than a PDP 11, faster, simpler and with *2 MORE Blinking lights and Switches*. 1.25 us Core (2.5 us instruction time) vs the orginal PDP 11. did I say more blinking lights. :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Not many collectors back when the Apple1 came out! Not sure either if many understood what that single board computer would birth in the way of a line of follow ons. Sometimes the future is not known! Ed# In a message dated 7/6/2019 6:51:40 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: It ((If)) the Apple I was so great, why did the COLLECTORS not buy them then?
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On 7/6/2019 1:12 AM, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: At 08:21 PM 5/07/2019 -0400, you wrote: You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards. I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple I, and what that mistake cost me. http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Guy Just like the stock market, Next week it could be vintage WWI army boots worn my Mother Inlaws. It the Apple I was so great, why did the COLLECTORS not buy them then? Now a 6501 CPU would be worth a pretty penny. I wonder what has more sales Saturday July 6 2019, A PDP/8 in some form, A PI computer, or a 6502 Home brew computer? Ben. Ps: I have a one of kind 18 bit computer lurking in a DE1 FPGA card, and I am not getting any offers for its sale. Replace your PDP-8 with something bigger. :) 1.5 uS core memory cycle. PPS: A Deluxe 20 bit computer coming REAL SOON.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019 at 09:12, Guy Dunphy via cctalk wrote: > > I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple > I, and what that mistake cost me. > > http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Sad reading... -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
At 08:21 PM 5/07/2019 -0400, you wrote: >You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of >decent-condition Apple 1 boards. I just _love_ being reminded of the circumstances of my NOT buying an Apple I, and what that mistake cost me. http://everist.org/NobLog/20181001_missing_wave.htm Guy
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
What are the replicas gong for Evan? A perfect reproduction -- for example a Mimeo will entirely date-code-correct components -- can go for four figures. Most repros/replicas aren't at that level.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
real or replica? Real! That's the whole point. we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look for one in the STUFF! My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). Definitely! I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol :)
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Time to start sorting boards!Although... I am not sure if I will live long enough to get though all of it... What are the replicas gong for Evan? Ed# In a message dated 7/5/2019 5:21:17 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cct...@snarc.net writes: > real or replica? Real! That's the whole point. > we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of > piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look > for one in the STUFF! > My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at > later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# You could be sitting on $400K-$1,000,000. That's the current range of decent-condition Apple 1 boards.
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
real or replica? we might like a replica for display..oddly though with the thousands of piles of boards heck we may even have a real one... never bothered to look for one in the STUFF! My classic mode is if I do not know what it is put it in a box and look at later...and that stuff goes back to 1979 Ed# In a message dated 7/5/2019 3:24:46 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: That is amazing. When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:27 PM Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be > displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of > these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join > early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were > purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the > future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ > > -Evan > >
Re: Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
That is amazing. When do you ever get a photo op with a bunch of apple 1 systems (which I hope is a thing). I thought the subject was a typo until I saw the sender lol On Fri, Jul 5, 2019, 4:27 PM Evan Koblentz via cctalk wrote: > Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be > displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of > these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join > early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were > purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the > future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) > http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ > > -Evan > >
Lots of Apple 1 computers @ VCF West
Today I can announce that 10 original Apple 1 computers will be displayed at VCF West, and we're working on getting more. Several of these will be up-and-running. Original and current owners will join early Apple employees in a panel to discuss the computers, why they were purchased, how they were used, and what the owners plan to do in the future. So, buy your tickets online now. :) http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/ -Evan
Re: Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
I wonder whether Evan could get Tim Paterson to agree to VCF selling autographed copies? Sorry, we would have had to plan that well in advance. Presumably he'll be glad to autograph whatever people bring with them.
Re: Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
I agree, Evan, I don???t think he???s ever given a speech or lecture like this, and if he has, it either was very long ago or not advertised well :-). Closest that I'm aware of was an article in Dr. Dobb's? 35 years ago, about design decisions. On Sun, 29 Jul 2018, Richard Cini wrote: Yes, that???s the last article I remember as well. 1982 I think. Have it somewhere here. On Sun, 29 Jul 2018, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote: This is awesome!?? "An Inside Look At MS-DOS : The Design Decisions Behind The Popular Operating System" BYTE June 1983 p230 8 pages Tim Paterson Seattle Computer Products 1114 Industry Dr. Seattle, WA 98186 I have half a dozen xerox copies of it. (authorized by McGraw-Hill 35 years ago.) I wonder whether Evan could get Tim Paterson to agree to VCF selling autographed copies?
Re: Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
Yes, that’s the last article I remember as well. 1982 I think. Have it somewhere here. Get Outlook for iOS On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 2:12 PM -0400, "Fred Cisin via cctalk" wrote: On Sun, 29 Jul 2018, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote: > This is awesome! > I agree, Evan, I don’t think he’s ever given a speech or lecture > like this, and if he has, it either was very long ago or not advertised > well :-). Closest that I'm aware of was an article in Dr. Dobb's? 35 years ago, about design decisions. > I’m looking forward to seeing the video especially given the > work I did in making a Gazelle of my own. Nice.
Re: Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
On Sun, 29 Jul 2018, Richard Cini via cctalk wrote: This is awesome! I agree, Evan, I don’t think he’s ever given a speech or lecture like this, and if he has, it either was very long ago or not advertised well :-). Closest that I'm aware of was an article in Dr. Dobb's? 35 years ago, about design decisions. I’m looking forward to seeing the video especially given the work I did in making a Gazelle of my own. Nice.
Re: Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
This is awesome! I agree, Evan, I don’t think he’s ever given a speech or lecture like this, and if he has, it either was very long ago or not advertised well :-). I’m looking forward to seeing the video especially given the work I did in making a Gazelle of my own. Rich Get Outlook for iOS On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 3:38 AM -0400, "Evan Koblentz via cctalk" wrote: I am excited about this!! Tim Paterson, of Seattle Computer Products, is speaking at Vintage Computer Festival XIII next weekend (August 4-5). The event as always is at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. Tim created QDOS - Quick & Dirty Operating System -- which was the basis for Microsoft's MS-DOS. Tim rarely (if ever?) gives historical lectures, so this is a coup for the hobby. Everything you need to know about VCF West -- online ticketing, all the other speakers, exhibits, consignment, etc. -- is on the VCF web site at http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/. Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit e...@vcfed.org (646) 546- www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation
Tim Paterson / QDOS lecture @ VCF West next weekend
I am excited about this!! Tim Paterson, of Seattle Computer Products, is speaking at Vintage Computer Festival XIII next weekend (August 4-5). The event as always is at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. Tim created QDOS - Quick & Dirty Operating System -- which was the basis for Microsoft's MS-DOS. Tim rarely (if ever?) gives historical lectures, so this is a coup for the hobby. Everything you need to know about VCF West -- online ticketing, all the other speakers, exhibits, consignment, etc. -- is on the VCF web site at http://vcfed.org/wp/festivals/vintage-computer-festival-west/. Evan Koblentz, director Vintage Computer Federation a 501(c)3 educational non-profit e...@vcfed.org (646) 546- www.vcfed.org facebook.com/vcfederation twitter.com/vcfederation
