-- Original Message --
From: "Rainer Duffner"
So, you will quickly be back to square one, unless you want to run stuff like
Debian or Ubuntu, which are mainly Linux-kernel+some stuff nowadays, whereas
RHEL + CentOS forms a complete system (with additional software that RedHat has
On 12/9/20 04:46, Andrea Biscuola wrote:
IMHO, if you based the most critical part of your infrastructure on CentOS,
you did it
wrong.
[...]
We also just switched to CentOS 8 from CentOS 6 spending around 6 months of work
in doing so, but the most important part of our infrastructure is on
I agree with you matt, the community should be listened to, it is not
possible that it is the decision of a few for something, it is that CentOS is
part of the OpenSource ecosystem.
Regards,
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 1:27 PM Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:19 AM Marc Balmer via
On 12/9/20 11:15 AM, Neil Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 18:06, Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
Hear! HEAR!
NOBODY asked.
OK. We get it. We all get it loud and clear. You're pissed off.
There's two things you can do about that -
1) accept reality and start making plans to deal with it,
Il 08/12/20 18:19, Marc Balmer via CentOS ha scritto:
Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
arrogant?
No and this is not started with the current discussion.
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
Il 08/12/20 17:17, Marc Balmer via CentOS ha scritto:
But we, the users, trusted you. No we don't anymore.
This!
___
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On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 6:32:00 AM PST Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
>
> Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? Remember
> that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* represent the vast
>
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 01:01:28PM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote:
> Understanding the flow of packages, is it a fair comparison to say
> that moving forward:
> Fedora packages could be considered alpha/beta releases of apps
> Centos/Stream could be considered beta / Pre-release / Release
>
On 12/9/20 1:01 PM, Christopher Wensink wrote:
> Understanding the flow of packages, is it a fair comparison to say that
> moving forward:
> Fedora packages could be considered alpha/beta releases of apps
> Centos/Stream could be considered beta / Pre-release / Release
> candidates of packages /
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:03 AM Christopher Wensink <
cwens...@five-star-plastics.com> wrote:
> Understanding the flow of packages, is it a fair comparison to say that
> moving forward:
> Fedora packages could be considered alpha/beta releases of apps
> Centos/Stream could be considered beta /
Understanding the flow of packages, is it a fair comparison to say that
moving forward:
Fedora packages could be considered alpha/beta releases of apps
Centos/Stream could be considered beta / Pre-release / Release
candidates of packages / partially stable
RHEL official releases would be
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:40:22AM +, J Martin Rushton via CentOS wrote:
> And exactly the same applies to senior (or retired) admins on their
> home computers. My main home machine runs about a dozen testbed
> VMs, DHCP/DNS for the home network, Amanda, NFS and Samba for other
> machines,
On Wed, Dec 09, 2020 at 09:15:40AM +0200, Veli-Pekka Kestilä wrote:
> >Is it possible that more regressions will get through than have before?
> >Well, sure, some. But let's not pretend that even RHEL is ever
> >regression-free. It's software, after all, and there are bugs and
> >errata. I don't
On 12/9/20 10:26 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
>
> We *are* a community, and we should be heard.
>
Absolutrly
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Le 09/12/2020 à 13:54, Ljubomir Ljubojevic a écrit :
> But harsh fact remains that CentOS Linux, a free clone of RHEL, is being
> slaughtered, and as far as I am concerned that "Stream" thingy can be
> renamed to RHEL Stream because it has no resemblance to CentOS Linux I
> know and love.
CentOS
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:19 AM Marc Balmer via CentOS
wrote:
>
>
> > Am 09.12.2020 um 17:15 schrieb Neil Thompson :
> >
> > On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 18:06, Phelps, Matthew
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hear! HEAR!
> >>
> >> NOBODY asked.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > OK. We get it. We all get it loud and
> Am 09.12.2020 um 17:15 schrieb Neil Thompson :
>
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 18:06, Phelps, Matthew
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hear! HEAR!
>>
>> NOBODY asked.
>>
>>
>>
> OK. We get it. We all get it loud and clear. You're pissed off.
>
> There's two things you can do about that -
> 1)
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 18:06, Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
>
>
> Hear! HEAR!
>
> NOBODY asked.
>
>
>
OK. We get it. We all get it loud and clear. You're pissed off.
There's two things you can do about that -
1) accept reality and start making plans to deal with it, or
2) continue to whine and lash
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 10:59 AM mark wrote:
> Oh, that's right, it's 2020, the dumpster fire of a year.
>
> On 12/9/20 4:40 AM, J Martin Rushton via CentOS wrote:
> >
> > On 09/12/2020 09:26, cen...@niob.at wrote:
> >> On 09/12/2020 07:16, Kingsly John wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A non-paying CentOS user
Oh, that's right, it's 2020, the dumpster fire of a year.
On 12/9/20 4:40 AM, J Martin Rushton via CentOS wrote:
On 09/12/2020 09:26, cen...@niob.at wrote:
On 09/12/2020 07:16, Kingsly John wrote:
A non-paying CentOS user is not a real loss for RHEL. But people dumping
CentOS for a non-RHEL
Gregory Kurtzer, founder od CAOS Linux that later changed name to CentOS
is starting new RHEL clone: https://github.com/hpcng/rocky
On 12/8/20 8:34 PM, Strahil Nikolov via CentOS-devel wrote:
> If anyone is considering to fork CentOS 8 (I'm not talking about that
> "Stream"), count me in.
>
>
>
> Am 08.12.20 um 19:20 schrieb Alan Mead:
> > On 12/8/2020 11:28 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> > > I have been doing this for 17 years. I would continue doing for 17
> > > more. But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
> > > going to happen. I know .. I've tried.
> >
> >
Am 08.12.20 um 19:20 schrieb Alan Mead:
On 12/8/2020 11:28 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
I have been doing this for 17 years. I would continue doing for 17
more. But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
going to happen. I know .. I've tried.
We owe everyone who worked on
On 12/9/20 12:01 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:28:58AM -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
>>> Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
>>> arrogant?
>> I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has
>
> Yeah, um, if I'm
> How many of us, complaining here about a supposed "breach of trust",
> are involved
> in making CentOS better and not just taking what others do and make
> money on top
> of it? I never participated in anything CentOS related, I happily use
> it but you should
> know what you are buying when
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:50:58 +0100
Nicolas Kovacs wrote:
> Le 09/12/2020 à 10:46, Andrea Biscuola a écrit :
> > CentOS was _always_ a best effort project done on a volunteer basis, if it
> > was stable enough to build a company on top of it, good! But always remember
> > that, in the end, you are
Le 09/12/2020 à 10:46, Andrea Biscuola a écrit :
> CentOS was _always_ a best effort project done on a volunteer basis, if it
> was stable enough to build a company on top of it, good! But always remember
> that, in the end, you are getting what you paid for.
Red Hat is a company built on top of
-Original Message-
> From: CentOS On Behalf Of Christopher Wensink
> Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:35 AM
> To: centos@centos.org
> Subject: {EXTERNAL} Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel]
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
>
>
> CAUTION: This e
On 09/12/2020 09:26, cen...@niob.at wrote:
On 09/12/2020 07:16, Kingsly John wrote:
A non-paying CentOS user is not a real loss for RHEL. But people dumping
CentOS for a non-RHEL clone is definitely going to impact their future
revenues as they are losing mindshare/goodwill/easy migration
On 12/9/20 10:26 AM, cen...@niob.at wrote:
And worse: Without CentOS being used widely (junior) admins will have even less
experience dealing with RHEL. This will result in lower quality deployments of
RHEL, reducing overall security of those systems and it will reduce RHEL
adoption, hitting
On 09/12/2020 07:16, Kingsly John wrote:
A non-paying CentOS user is not a real loss for RHEL. But people dumping
CentOS for a non-RHEL clone is definitely going to impact their future
revenues as they are losing mindshare/goodwill/easy migration etc.
And worse: Without CentOS being used
I agree with you 100%. I was almost laughed at by vast majority of Linux
professionals when I say I use CentOS exclusively, because 90% of them
uses Debian or Ubuntu, and around 99% of developers does the same.
I see this developing like this:
All/most of the hosting companies will stop offering
On 9.12.2020 0.38, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 08:34:54AM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote:
Is it possible that more regressions will get through than have before?
Well, sure, some. But let's not pretend that even RHEL is ever
regression-free. It's software, after all, and
+++ Rainer Duffner [2020-12-08 15:42:20]:
> If your business case resolves around being able to freeload on the work of
> others, then there’s a serious problem with the business case.
That applies to IBM/RHEL too. They aren't paying for every bit of
software that is packaged in the
Was this decision forced, despite objection, on the CentOS board by the
RedHat Liaison?
Yes or No?
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:28:58AM -0600, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
> > arrogant?
> I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has
Yeah, um, if I'm coming across as arrogant, I apologize. I genuinely
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 08:34:54AM -0600, Christopher Wensink wrote:
> I agree this is shocking news. If we don't want to be beta testers
> and want to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving
> to RHEL servers? Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is
> the recommended
On 08/12/2020 20:01, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:02 AM Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
> Please sign this petition if you don't want the CentOS Board to implement
> this decision:
>
>
> https://www.change.org/p/centos-governing-board-do-not-destroy-centos-by-using-it-as-a-rhel-upstream
>
> Or... don't if you are happy with the
Would love to see this get off the ground:
Gregory Kurtzer says:
I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able
to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping,
please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).
Greg
(original
If anyone is considering to fork CentOS 8 (I'm not talking about that
"Stream"), count me in.
Otherwise I will switch to openSUSE Leap. At least they are not pushing
me some testing ground.
Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
В 12:07 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Phelps, Matthew написа:
> I still haven't
Am 08.12.20 um 18:11 schrieb Johnny Hughes:
On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
the community. Why would we trust
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a
> current RHEL release.
On 12/8/2020 11:28 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> I have been doing this for 17 years. I would continue doing for 17
> more. But it is what it is and wishing for it to be different is not
> going to happen. I know .. I've tried.
We owe everyone who worked on CentOS a big thank you.
I think a lot
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:43 AM Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
> "Since March 2004, CentOS Linux has been a community-supported distribution
> derived from sources freely provided to the public by Red Hat. As such,
> CentOS Linux aims to be functionally compatible with RHEL."
>
I hate to jump in as a
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:35 PM Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM Johnny Hughes wrote:
>
>> On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
>> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
>> quite arrogant?
>>
>> I am sorry you feel that
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:29 PM Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
> quite arrogant?
>
> I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has
> several programs where
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 11:29 AM Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> > Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
> quite arrogant?
>
> I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has
> several programs where they
On 12/8/20 11:19 AM, Marc Balmer via CentOS wrote:
> Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
> arrogant?
I am sorry you feel that way. I was trying to help. Red Hat has
several programs where they give away RHEL for free. CentOS Stream is
free. CentOS
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:20 PM Marc Balmer via CentOS
wrote:
> Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as
> quite arrogant?
>
Clearly, you haven't been around here long. :)
This is par for the course here, and extremely frustrating.
>
> > Am 08.12.2020 um 18:11
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:11 PM Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> >>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
>
Am I the only one to perceive CentOS/RedHat team members responses as quite
arrogant?
> Am 08.12.2020 um 18:11 schrieb Johnny Hughes :
>
> On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan
> Am 08.12.2020 um 18:02 schrieb Phelps, Matthew :
>
> The whole point of CentOS was so that we didn't have to "engage." We don't
> have time for that.
>
You do understand that Open Source does not work like that?
> We just want a stable re-compile of RHEL, as promised. CentOS has been
>
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 11:11 AM Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> >>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
>
On 12/8/20 11:02 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
>>> I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
>>> the community. Why would we trust these promises?
>>
>> "Better
I still haven't seen an answer to the question, "Who made this decision?"
and, "How can we lobby to get it changed?"
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> > I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
> > the community. Why would we trust these promises?
>
> "Better engagement with the community" of course requires that
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:59 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> > I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
> > the community. Why would we trust these promises?
>
> "Better engagement with the community" of course requires that
On 12/8/20 11:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
I see a lot of promises that Stream will have better engagement with
the community. Why would we trust these promises?
"Better engagement with the community" of course requires that the
community step up and engage. Trust isn't something
On 12/8/20 10:29 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:15:04AM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> That page was never a contract. It's a web page published by an open source
>> project. Please do not misconstrue it as a contract.
>
> I don't think anyone seriously thought it was a
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:15 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 12/8/20 10:41 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jonathan Billings
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> >>> You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 11:15:04AM -0500, Rich Bowen wrote:
> That page was never a contract. It's a web page published by an open source
> project. Please do not misconstrue it as a contract.
I don't think anyone seriously thought it was a contract.
Open Source works largely on trust. Trust
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020, 10:15 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 12/8/20 10:41 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jonathan Billings
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> >>> You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states
> Am 08.12.2020 um 17:15 schrieb Rich Bowen :
>
>
>
> On 12/8/20 10:41 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jonathan Billings
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states the
On 12/8/20 10:41 AM, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jonathan Billings
wrote:
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states the EOL for CentOS 8 is
May 2029. (c.f.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:39 AM Jonathan Billings
wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> > You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states the EOL for CentOS 8 is
> > May 2029. (c.f.
> https://endoflife.software/operating-systems/linux/centos).
> > CentOS
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:28 AM Phelps, Matthew
wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
>> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
>> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS
On Tue, Dec 08, 2020 at 10:28:30AM -0500, Phelps, Matthew wrote:
> You have published a CentOS Lifecycle that states the EOL for CentOS 8 is
> May 2029. (c.f. https://endoflife.software/operating-systems/linux/centos).
> CentOS Stream *is not* CentOS 8.
>
> This announcement is a breach of that
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Rich Bowen wrote:
> The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream, and over the next
> year we’ll be shifting focus from CentOS Linux, the rebuild of Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), to CentOS Stream, which tracks just ahead of a
> current RHEL release.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 9:42 AM Rainer Duffner
wrote:
>
>
> > Am 08.12.2020 um 15:32 schrieb Phelps, Matthew >:
> >
> > This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
> >
>
>
>
> Of course it is.
>
>
> > Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? Remember
>
> Am 08.12.2020 um 15:32 schrieb Phelps, Matthew :
>
> This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
>
Of course it is.
> Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? Remember
> that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* represent the
LOL, laughing with you not at you, license free RHEL. Just RHEL (IBM)
wanting to increase the coffers for RHEL. I know, I know thats not whats
really happening but yeah that is what is really happening. If you want a
tested production worthy server install based on RHEL then you will have to
pay
-Original Message-
From: CentOS On Behalf Of Christopher Wensink
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 8:35 AM
To: centos@centos.org
Subject: {EXTERNAL} Re: [CentOS] [CentOS-devel]
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
CAUTION: This email originated outside of BSWH; avoid action
I agree this is shocking news. If we don't want to be beta testers and
want to continue to use a stable tested OS should we be moving to RHEL
servers? Is there a license-free RHEL server option that is the
recommended path from using CentOS?
Chris
On 12/8/2020 8:32 AM, Phelps, Matthew
This is really, really bad for the majority of us using CentOS.
Is there any way we can lobby for the reversal of this decision? Remember
that the -devel mailing list, and IRC channels *do not* represent the vast
majority of CentOS users. Most of us are just sysadmins trying to keep our
systems
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