Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Gionatan Danti]

Il 2021-04-16 14:35 Nikolaos Milas ha scritto:

On 16/4/2021 10:10 π.μ., Felix Kölzow wrote:


you may take a look at _rear_ (it is that easy how it looks like)


You may also want to check mondo:

   http://www.mondorescue.org/about.shtml (the website is not updated
   regularly!)

I am using it for many years, since CentOS 5 (until now with CentOS 8).

There may be a few glitches, but otherwise I am pretty satisfied.

It supports bare metal recovery and can be used for cloning too.

Cheers,
Nick


Hi, while relax-and-recover, mondorescue and similar tools have their 
place, I mostly find them outdated for VM backup. The main reason is 
that they have difficult providing low RTO and RPO.


For my current low-cost linux hypervisors I use a ZFS filesystem, with 
backups done leaveraing a mix of both ZFS send/recv and rsnapshot. More 
specifically:

- rolling hourly snapshots are taked via sanoid;
- the primary datastore (with raw disk images) is replicated with 1min 
interval (thanks to send/recv) to a second, standby server. This 
guarantee a byte-for-byte copy of all the virtual machines backing files 
*and* the capability to quickly restart all VMs in case the first server 
dies;
- a third machine does rsnapshot-based backup of the data inside the VMs 
themselves, for added convenience in recovering a single file and for 
longer historical retention.


This backup scheme as served me very well.
Just my 2c.
Regards.

--
Danti Gionatan
Supporto Tecnico
Assyoma S.r.l. - www.assyoma.it
email: g.da...@assyoma.it - i...@assyoma.it
GPG public key ID: FF5F32A8
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Nikolaos Milas]

On 16/4/2021 10:10 π.μ., Felix Kölzow wrote:

you may take a look at _rear_ (it is that easy how it looks like) 


You may also want to check mondo:

   http://www.mondorescue.org/about.shtml (the website is not updated
   regularly!)

I am using it for many years, since CentOS 5 (until now with CentOS 8).

There may be a few glitches, but otherwise I am pretty satisfied.

It supports bare metal recovery and can be used for cloning too.

Cheers,
Nick

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Felix Kölzow]

Hallo Niki,


I'd be very grateful for some links to these third-party backup tools, with a
preference for free (as in beer + speech) stuff.

Niki

you may take a look at _rear_ (it is that easy how it looks like)

https://relax-and-recover.org/ 

and a possible integration of rear with bareos:

https://docs.bareos.org/IntroductionAndTutorial/WhatIsBareos.html



Both solutions come up with support if necessary, while community is
really responsive.


Regards,

Felix

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Blaž Bogataj]

Hello 

As I said a couple of weeks ago in response to Niki I have been using ProxMox 
almost from the beginning ;). 
No "enterprise" version. And backup is one of the reasons for that. NFS on NAS 
as a backup target is really nice, even one time quicker than backup to local 
storage (NAS with 10gb FC). 

Also fiddling with RHV. But there is no "free" backup solution. I am trying 
with Bacchus but no way to schedule backup. Single backup OK, schedule backup 
no go. 
So now use vProtect, for 5 years not a lot of $. 

But I hope to find some instructions on how to build Prox and use it as 
software defined storage. I must learn how to build this, especially about a 
separated management network, without I think I can't build this to get HA. And 
them migrate from RHV. 

All the best 
Blaz 

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Simon Matter  said:
> I haven't followed oVirt/RHV but I'm wondering how free it is? Is it as
> "free" as RHEL or as CentOS/Alma/Rocky/Navy/Oracle Linux?

oVirt is the upstream for RHV.  Development takes place in oVirt, but
(to me anyway) like Fedora, that doesn't mean it is an unfinished or
beta product - they do development and have test releases and such.
But, like any freely-available software, sometimes you get to find new
ways to break it (and then go hunting for help on mailing lists and
such). :)  I've run oVirt in production for over 6 years (don't actually
remember exactly when I started but at least that long).

> BTW, from what I know Proxmox does make use of ZFS for some nice features,
> does oVirt/RHV have some comparable solutions?

All of my oVirt experience has been with external iSCSI storage arrays -
my main cluster was a mail server farm for 60K residential users, so we
needed TBs of fast storage.  oVirt supports a hyperconverged setup with
Gluster as well; I set it up once in a lab, but we didn't end up using
it (so I can't offer any experience with it).

We used to have a TrueNAS (commercial FreeBSD+ZFS storage array), and...
we had issues with it.  I was not a fan and probably would avoid ZFS and
FreeNAS/TrueNAS based on my experiences (but maybe they've gotten
better).  We hit multiple bugs with it that took a long time to resolve.
We were also unhappy with the hardware and its support from iX Systems
(the company behind FreeNAS/TrueNAS).

Aside from bugs, one drawback of ZFS for me was that, when we needed
more storage and added more drives, there was no way to rebalance the
space.  We ended up getting "hot spots" because a flood of data was
written to just the new drives.  The ZFS "solution" is just to backup
and restore your data (which is not an enterprise or highly available
option to me).

Rebalance is hard, but I ran DEC Unix back in the day, and their AdvFS
not only supported rebalance, it ran it regularly from a cron job (which
may have been a hack around the kernel not balancing well to begin with
of course).

-- 
Chris Adams 
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 08:24, Simon Matter  wrote:

> > On 13.04.21 12:33, Simon Matter wrote:
> >>> Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
>  Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based
>  systems
>  have something similar to offer.
> >>>
> >>> I believe Red Hat Virtualization, and its open upstream oVirt, are
> >>> comparable to Proxmox.  I have used oVirt for a number of years.  oVirt
> >>> itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
> >>> clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
> >>> commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
> >>> haven't used it but seen others mention it).
> >>
> >> I haven't followed oVirt/RHV but I'm wondering how free it is? Is it as
> >> "free" as RHEL or as CentOS/Alma/Rocky/Navy/Oracle Linux?
> >
> > Upstream -> Product
> >
> > Fedora -> RHEL
> > oVirt  -> RHV
>
> Thanks for the confirmation.
>
> In other words, we'll soon have four or more almost 100% identical
> rebuilds of RHEL but only 1 very lacking EPEL and 0 RHV clones ;-)
>
>
Those all depend on committed volunteers to do the work. That takes up a
lot of time and effort from people who are in short supply because doing
those things are more like a job than a 'weekend fun project'. This would
normally be where people would pay for a product but there are not a lot of
paying customers and a larger number of people who either expect it there
or would rather go without than pay for it.



> Regards,
> Simon
>
> ___
> CentOS mailing list
> CentOS@centos.org
> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
>


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Simon Matter]

> On 13.04.21 12:33, Simon Matter wrote:
>>> Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
 Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based
 systems
 have something similar to offer.
>>>
>>> I believe Red Hat Virtualization, and its open upstream oVirt, are
>>> comparable to Proxmox.  I have used oVirt for a number of years.  oVirt
>>> itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
>>> clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
>>> commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
>>> haven't used it but seen others mention it).
>>
>> I haven't followed oVirt/RHV but I'm wondering how free it is? Is it as
>> "free" as RHEL or as CentOS/Alma/Rocky/Navy/Oracle Linux?
>
> Upstream -> Product
>
> Fedora -> RHEL
> oVirt  -> RHV

Thanks for the confirmation.

In other words, we'll soon have four or more almost 100% identical
rebuilds of RHEL but only 1 very lacking EPEL and 0 RHV clones ;-)

Regards,
Simon

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Leon Fauster via CentOS]

On 13.04.21 12:33, Simon Matter wrote:

Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:

Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based
systems
have something similar to offer.


I believe Red Hat Virtualization, and its open upstream oVirt, are
comparable to Proxmox.  I have used oVirt for a number of years.  oVirt
itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
haven't used it but seen others mention it).


I haven't followed oVirt/RHV but I'm wondering how free it is? Is it as
"free" as RHEL or as CentOS/Alma/Rocky/Navy/Oracle Linux?


Upstream -> Product

Fedora -> RHEL
oVirt  -> RHV


--
Leon




___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Simon Matter]

> Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
>> Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based
>> systems
>> have something similar to offer.
>
> I believe Red Hat Virtualization, and its open upstream oVirt, are
> comparable to Proxmox.  I have used oVirt for a number of years.  oVirt
> itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
> clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
> commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
> haven't used it but seen others mention it).

I haven't followed oVirt/RHV but I'm wondering how free it is? Is it as
"free" as RHEL or as CentOS/Alma/Rocky/Navy/Oracle Linux?

BTW, from what I know Proxmox does make use of ZFS for some nice features,
does oVirt/RHV have some comparable solutions?

Thanks,
Simon

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Valeri Galtsev]

On April 12, 2021 6:19:52 PM CDT, Chris Adams  wrote:
>Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
>> Le 12/04/2021 à 23:11, Chris Adams a écrit :
>> > oVirt
>> > itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots
>and
>> > clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free
>and
>> > commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
>> > haven't used it but seen others mention it).
>> 
>> I'd be very grateful for some links to these third-party backup
>tools, with a
>> preference for free (as in beer + speech) stuff.
>
>Google is your friend 

No, it isn't. Duckduckgo is ;-)

Valeri

- check out the ovirt-users mailing list archive.
>I'm not doing VM-based backups (had system backups already before
>setting up this VM environment and haven't had the opportunity to
>change), so I can't really say.
>
>I know there are people using Ansible plays against the oVirt API to do
>things, so there are probably scripts for that in the usual places like
>github.


Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
> Le 12/04/2021 à 23:11, Chris Adams a écrit :
> > oVirt
> > itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
> > clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
> > commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
> > haven't used it but seen others mention it).
> 
> I'd be very grateful for some links to these third-party backup tools, with a
> preference for free (as in beer + speech) stuff.

Google is your friend - check out the ovirt-users mailing list archive.
I'm not doing VM-based backups (had system backups already before
setting up this VM environment and haven't had the opportunity to
change), so I can't really say.

I know there are people using Ansible plays against the oVirt API to do
things, so there are probably scripts for that in the usual places like
github.
-- 
Chris Adams 
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 12/04/2021 à 23:11, Chris Adams a écrit :
> oVirt
> itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
> clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
> commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
> haven't used it but seen others mention it).

I'd be very grateful for some links to these third-party backup tools, with a
preference for free (as in beer + speech) stuff.

Niki

-- 
Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables
7, place de l'église - 30730 Montpezat
Site : https://www.microlinux.fr
Blog : https://blog.microlinux.fr
Mail : i...@microlinux.fr
Tél. : 04 66 63 10 32
Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Nicolas Kovacs  said:
> Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based systems
> have something similar to offer.

I believe Red Hat Virtualization, and its open upstream oVirt, are
comparable to Proxmox.  I have used oVirt for a number of years.  oVirt
itself doesn't include backup software (it supports VM snapshots and
clones), but there are several third-party backup tools (both free and
commercial) compatible with oVirt/RHV, like Storeware's vProtect (I
haven't used it but seen others mention it).

-- 
Chris Adams 
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Le 12/04/2021 à 18:28, Simon Matter a écrit :
> From what
> I understand Proxmox is Open Source and can be used freely with the option
> to get paid support, is this correct?

Yes, it's an extremely nice hypervisor solution with an intuitive GUI. You can
use the community repos freely (they work perfectly) but you need a
subscription to use their enterprise repo, a bit like OwnCloud for example.

After fiddling with it for a couple weeks, I must say I'm impressed.
Documentation is also nice, and the user forum is very reactive.

The same thing on RHEL compatible systems would be just perfect.

Niki

-- 
Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables
7, place de l'église - 30730 Montpezat
Site : https://www.microlinux.fr
Blog : https://blog.microlinux.fr
Mail : i...@microlinux.fr
Tél. : 04 66 63 10 32
Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Simon Matter]

Hi,

> Hi,
>
> I've just spent a couple weeks experimenting extensively with Proxmox VE
> (Virtual Environment) and Proxmox PBS (Backup Server) on a couple of
> sandbox
> servers. I must say I'm impressed, especially of the elegance and
> simplicity of
> the backup solution. Running virtual machines can be backed up
> efficiently,
> combining deduplication and incremental backups. A bit like Rsnapshot,
> only for
> whole VM images.
>
> Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based
> systems
> have something similar to offer.

That's really a very interesting question. There are "Red Hat OpenStack
Platform" and "Red Hat Virtualization" but I don't know about their exact
features and how they could be compared to the Proxmox products. From what
I understand Proxmox is Open Source and can be used freely with the option
to get paid support, is this correct?

>
> Any suggestions ?

No but I'm also listening to hear options.

>
> Niki

Regards,
Simon

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Valeri Galtsev]

On 4/12/21 9:54 AM, Nicolas Kovacs wrote:

Hi,

I've just spent a couple weeks experimenting extensively with Proxmox VE
(Virtual Environment) and Proxmox PBS (Backup Server)


This is the greatest example to always decipher the abbreviations. PBS 
is quite well known for at least a couple of decades abbreviation 
standing for Portable Batch System. Proxmox on the other hand though 
seems to exist since 2008, I for one have never heard of - until this 
moment that is.


(should I be adding "rant" rags?)

Valeri


on a couple of sandbox
servers. I must say I'm impressed, especially of the elegance and simplicity of
the backup solution. Running virtual machines can be backed up efficiently,
combining deduplication and incremental backups. A bit like Rsnapshot, only for
whole VM images.

Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based systems
have something similar to offer.

Any suggestions ?

Niki



--

Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247

___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

[CentOS] Proxmox Backup Server equivalent for the RHEL/CentOS world ?

[Nicolas Kovacs]

Hi,

I've just spent a couple weeks experimenting extensively with Proxmox VE
(Virtual Environment) and Proxmox PBS (Backup Server) on a couple of sandbox
servers. I must say I'm impressed, especially of the elegance and simplicity of
the backup solution. Running virtual machines can be backed up efficiently,
combining deduplication and incremental backups. A bit like Rsnapshot, only for
whole VM images.

Both PVE and PBS are based on Debian, and now I wonder if RHEL-based systems
have something similar to offer.

Any suggestions ?

Niki

-- 
Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables
7, place de l'église - 30730 Montpezat
Site : https://www.microlinux.fr
Blog : https://blog.microlinux.fr
Mail : i...@microlinux.fr
Tél. : 04 66 63 10 32
Mob. : 06 51 80 12 12
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos