Re: Application.cfm/c
Well if they are not using any client, application or session vars or any of the other features then I guess they do not need one. In which case a non unique app name is not really needed either as there is nothing in the application of any interest to anyone. Altho a site that simple usually doesn't even need cf I have found and there are usually not many pages even with any cfml in them, often just .cfm for the sake of an include. I have found such sites are better candidates for wordpress. Russ Michaels www.michaels.me.uk cfmldeveloper.com cflive.net cfsearch.com On 25 Sep 2013 04:39, Byron Mann byronos...@gmail.com wrote: Trying to wrap my head around any implications around not using an application file. Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). I can see how non-unique application names might be an issue, but I'm failing to see any pitfalls to not having one. If anything I would say it would improve performance, since you could not use application, session and client scope, thus using less memory utilization. Looking for any experience where this may have been an issue before I talk to them tomorrow. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356833 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
I would assume the specific issues would be the crux of the matter. Without them, it is difficult to speculate. In regards to performance, the scopes you mention are often used to increase performance in well designed applications. If the server doesn't have enough resources to accommodate their use, then yes, performance will suffer, but the primary reason is a lack of server resources, not the use of application, session and client scopes. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 5:39 AM, Byron Mann byronos...@gmail.com wrote: Trying to wrap my head around any implications around not using an application file. Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). I can see how non-unique application names might be an issue, but I'm failing to see any pitfalls to not having one. If anything I would say it would improve performance, since you could not use application, session and client scope, thus using less memory utilization. Looking for any experience where this may have been an issue before I talk to them tomorrow. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356834 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Application.cfm/c
Your admins might be referring to the idea that some OTHER application.cfm/c is being called when none is in the root of the site. These are issues that can generally be resolved but they have to be understood. I'd get more info. -Original Message- From: Byron Mann [mailto:byronos...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:39 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Application.cfm/c Trying to wrap my head around any implications around not using an application file. Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). I can see how non-unique application names might be an issue, but I'm failing to see any pitfalls to not having one. If anything I would say it would improve performance, since you could not use application, session and client scope, thus using less memory utilization. Looking for any experience where this may have been an issue before I talk to them tomorrow. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356835 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
They got back to me, I think I pretty much shot down their theories. 1- Application scopes are still present without an application.cf* file and shared across all sites with no app file 2- Garbage Collection performs better when applications are defined 3- Poor structure which leads to more support calls, for things like server settings that can be modified on a per-app basis 1 - False to best of my knowledge, unless there is a file further up the directory structure, which there shouldn't be. Plus, I'm thinking the sandboxes would prevent that file from loading anyhow. I tested this theory on 7/8/10 and was not able to produce the issue, except when I put an app file in a higher directory. Did not try with a sandbox enabled. 2 - I'm not a GC guru, but I would think having less in memory usage (application, sessions) would result in just the opposite. 3 - We have many more poor coding practices to address for customers than this. Like requesting 10 day timeouts for session variables, etc. Background is, they are pushing to upload a default application.cfc to the webroot for new sites. I'm shooting it down with my thinking that application.cfc takes precedence over application.cfm. Which a good number of customer sites still use, and would result in many broken customer sites out of the box. I'm correct in thinking it just searches up the file system structure to the system root right? No CF mappings or any other craziness occurs? I think in 10 you can even set the server to stop looking up beyond the webroot. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356836 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
The question to ponder here is what an *empty* default Application.cfc file is going to achieve? Not much, I believe. You can set per application mappings in an Application.cf* file, (from CF9 I think?) which is *very* helpful on shared hosting, but an empty Application.cfc file isn't going to do that. On CF10, application and session scope seem to work without an Application.cf* file in a parent directory on my quick tests. So it seems all an Application.cf* file can do is alter server defaults and provide a place to manage your application. On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Byron Mann byronos...@gmail.com wrote: They got back to me, I think I pretty much shot down their theories. 1- Application scopes are still present without an application.cf* file and shared across all sites with no app file 2- Garbage Collection performs better when applications are defined 3- Poor structure which leads to more support calls, for things like server settings that can be modified on a per-app basis 1 - False to best of my knowledge, unless there is a file further up the directory structure, which there shouldn't be. Plus, I'm thinking the sandboxes would prevent that file from loading anyhow. I tested this theory on 7/8/10 and was not able to produce the issue, except when I put an app file in a higher directory. Did not try with a sandbox enabled. 2 - I'm not a GC guru, but I would think having less in memory usage (application, sessions) would result in just the opposite. 3 - We have many more poor coding practices to address for customers than this. Like requesting 10 day timeouts for session variables, etc. Background is, they are pushing to upload a default application.cfc to the webroot for new sites. I'm shooting it down with my thinking that application.cfc takes precedence over application.cfm. Which a good number of customer sites still use, and would result in many broken customer sites out of the box. I'm correct in thinking it just searches up the file system structure to the system root right? No CF mappings or any other craziness occurs? I think in 10 you can even set the server to stop looking up beyond the webroot. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356837 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Nando d.na...@gmail.com wrote: The question to ponder here is what an *empty* default Application.cfc file is going to achieve? Not much, I believe. I've totally ignored the whole rest of the thread, so pardon me if this is dumb. But an empty App.cfc *would* accomplish something. It would ensure that an App.cfc higher up the food chain doesn't fire. You may want to prevent aht. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356839 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
*On CF10, application and session scope seem to work without an Application.cf* file in a parent directory* I haven't been able to produce that. I can set session and application variables, but it's not really a session or application, just a simple structure. Example below the timestamps keep changing, if sessions and application variables were enabled, you would expect them to not change. cfscript param name=session.time default=now(); param name=application.time default=now(); writeDump(session); writeDump(application); /cfscript Their thinking seems to be that requiring an application file is somehow going to increase stability and performance of the server, and I'm just not seeing that. Uploading a default is just going to result in it being overwritten anyhow 75% of the time. I had a meeting with them and set them straight. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356840 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 5:39 AM, Byron Mann wrote: Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). It has been a while since I last set up a server for shared hosting, but I used to put an Application.cfc in a parent folder which would display a short message that an Application.cfc/m was required and then cfabort it. It used to be just for logging (some logfiles will have the application name with each logline), but with application specific settings available you want people to make sure they have one so they can deal with their own mappings. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356841 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Application.cfm/c
That is an excellent suggestion. I think we could probably do this for new servers going forward. Thanks ~Byron Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Jochem van Dieten joch...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 5:39 AM, Byron Mann wrote: Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). It has been a while since I last set up a server for shared hosting, but I used to put an Application.cfc in a parent folder which would display a short message that an Application.cfc/m was required and then cfabort it. It used to be just for logging (some logfiles will have the application name with each logline), but with application specific settings available you want people to make sure they have one so they can deal with their own mappings. Jochem ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356842 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Application.cfm/c
Trying to wrap my head around any implications around not using an application file. Our admins are telling me that we run into issues with customers on our shared platform not having one. (they didn't specify the issues in the email). I can see how non-unique application names might be an issue, but I'm failing to see any pitfalls to not having one. If anything I would say it would improve performance, since you could not use application, session and client scope, thus using less memory utilization. Looking for any experience where this may have been an issue before I talk to them tomorrow. Byron Mann Lead Engineer Architect HostMySite.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:356832 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
