What about adding circular dependency resolution to the compiler
between Clojure - Java code ?
I know, I know - it's not very sexy but it would go a long way for
companies with larger legacy Java code bases that may be considering
moving to Clojure. Being able to replace Java code 'one step at a
It seems that noone has brought up the amazing paredit mode for emacs which
gives you keyboard commands for s-expression structure manipulation. It also
makes sure you never get your close parenthesis wrong. I use it and can't
imagine writing any medium+-complexity code without it.
On Dec 19,
How about static analysis? Plenty of interesting problems there. For
example:
1. detect incorrect uses of transients (those that would certainly
lead to exceptions) and report them during compile-time.
2. related to (1), but different: detect places where the compiler can
implicitly convert
It's certainly something I would like to add to counterclockwise.
If only paredit's code was written in clojure, it could have been more
easily reused by enclojure, La Clojure and counterclockwise ! :-(
2009/12/19 Avital Oliver avi...@thewe.net
It seems that noone has brought up the amazing
Hi,
On 18 Dez., 20:07, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
One of the things that always puts people off of Lisp, as we all know, are
the parentheses.
one of the things that always put Lispers off is this same question.
I have three arguments to make. Love, reason and trust.
* Love.
On Dec 19, 1:52 am, ajay gopalakrishnan ajgop...@gmail.com wrote:
Put
*Comparative performance evaluation of Java threads for embedded
applications**: Linux thread vs. Green thread
Your Google search skills are obviously beyond ours. :) I've found it
now.
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On Dec 18, 8:07 pm, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
I had this thought at work, when I should have been working, so please bear
with me if it's nonsense.
One of the things that always puts people off of Lisp, as we all know, are
the parentheses. Now, many ways have been suggested of
Hey,
I was experimenting with transients, and they don't seem to work for
sorted collections:
user= (transient (sorted-map 1 2 3 4))
java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentTreeMap cannot be
cast to clojure.lang.IEditableCollection (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
user= (transient (sorted-set 1 2
IIRC, you can use transient only with maps and vectors.
David
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Sean Devlin francoisdev...@gmail.comwrote:
Hey,
I was experimenting with transients, and they don't seem to work for
sorted collections:
user= (transient (sorted-map 1 2 3 4))
I was experimenting with transients, and they don't seem to work for
sorted collections:
user= (transient (sorted-map 1 2 3 4))
java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentTreeMap cannot be
cast to clojure.lang.IEditableCollection (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
user= (transient (sorted-set
Personally, I don't think the problem for non-Lispers is with the
number of parentheses so much as with the *depth* of parens-nesting
and having to invert the reading order, starting from the deepest
s-expr and reading your way back out.
I'm still very new to Clojure (basically I have only been
Steve,
I've been checking out the Java, and it looks the same to me. I think
this raises a couple issues:
1. Should sorted versions get transient support in 1.1?
2. The docs should be updated to reflect the 1.1 status of
transients.
Sean
On Dec 19, 10:23 am, Stephen C. Gilardi
Predicate dispatch would be an interesting topic. The #1 problem with
predicate dispatch is method ordering. Predicate dispatch as described
in the orignal paper [http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/mernst/pubs/
dispatching-ecoop98-abstract.html] decides what order to used based on
implication
It is proudly a Lisp for people that want to get things done. Any
Java/.NET/Python/Brainfuck/Ruby/Basic/C/C++ (No Perlmongers :)) that
want to get better are welcome. However, there is a way things are
done in the language, driven by the underlying problems reality
imposes on
On 19 Dec 2009, at 13:50, Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
Hi,
On 18 Dez., 20:07, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
One of the things that always puts people off of Lisp, as we all know, are
the parentheses.
one of the things that always put Lispers off is this same question.
I have
I want to thank you all for your suggestions, the clojure community is
really great!
On Dec 18, 1:35 pm, Patrick Kristiansen
patrick.kristian...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
We're two students that have been working with concurrent programming
languages (Erlang and Clojure), and while both languages
Thanks!
I found this one, it involves a function that does the resolve:
(defn -dynlet [bvec body]
`(let ~bvec ~body))
(defmacro dynlet [bvec body]
`(eval (-dynlet ~bvec ~body)))
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Hi,
I am trying to use lein.py, from above, on Windows (Vista).
It works nicely for some commands (e.g. lein.py compile),
after removing the extra space in two places e.g.
'leiningen-%s-standalone .jar' -
'leiningen-%s-standalone.jar'
and
'1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT/cloju re-1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT.jar'
Thanks for your answers.
Yes, I'd like to use the new branch not the master one, anyway having
this dependency in project.clj:
[org.clojure/clojure 1.1.0-new-SNAPSHOT]
and using lein repl, I still have 1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT at the repl.
I added the spec to the dev-dependencies too, but still
I guess it's mostly a matter of judging a language by its long-term
merits instead of initial appearance -- just like with so many other
things in life.
That - right there - is a tacit admission that the Clojure community will find
it actively desirable that it remain a minority language,
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
I guess it's mostly a matter of judging a language by its long-term
merits instead of initial appearance -- just like with so many other
things in life.
That - right there - is a tacit admission that the Clojure
Martin,
I was short with you yesterday. I'm sorry about that. Please let me
try again.
I'm all for providing better documentation, eliminating bad design,
and holding hands as people get up to speed. As a community, we
constantly need to do more work to make it accessible. That's the
point
Very abstract java example (as concise as possible):
ListObject processList(ListObject oldObjects)
{
ListObject newObjects = ArrayListObject;
for(Object object : oldObjects)
{
newObjects.add(manipulate(object));
}
return newObjects;
}
Clojure equivalent:
(defn
Oops.. left two parentheses out in my Java code. Guess that just furthers my
point. :)
ListObject newObjects = ArrayListObject();
On Dec 19, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Joseph Smith wrote:
Very abstract java example (as concise as possible):
ListObject processList(ListObject oldObjects)
{
Hi,
Could anybody please give me a Clojure 1.1 Maven2 repo URL? It's not
there on Maven central repo yet, and (surprise!) clojars.org doesn't
seem to have it either.
I am going to use the 1.1 RC JAR in my local repo until I find one.
Regards,
Shantanu
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The intended audience are Software Engineers. Not the people who hide
behind this-is-not-intuitive their lack of willing to learn the most
effective way to spend their professional life.
Why is it that you believe them to be mutually exclusive events? You portray
Software engineers as if they are
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 9:21 AM, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think anybody in the Clojure community wants to Clojure to be a
fringe language.
Actually, I don't mind if Clojure retains a certain degree of fringe status.
To clarify, I think the ideal size for a language
Parens are really a non-issue once you are using an editor
that counts them and highlights matching appropriately.
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On Dec 18, 9:28 pm, Sean Devlin francoisdev...@gmail.com wrote:
It is proudly a Lisp for people that want to get things done. Any
Java/.NET/Python/Brainfuck/Ruby/Basic/C/C++ (No Perlmongers :))
I was a Perlmonger back in the day. :)
-SS
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On Dec 18, 9:03 am, David Thomas Hume dth...@gmail.com wrote:
From the 1.1 release notes:
Futures represent asynchronous computations. They are away to get
code to run in another thread, and obtain the result.
That's been fixed now in the 1.1.x branch; thanks for the report.
-SS
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Well, good thing you repented of your evil ways
On Dec 19, 3:37 pm, Stuart Sierra the.stuart.sie...@gmail.com wrote:
On Dec 18, 9:28 pm, Sean Devlin francoisdev...@gmail.com wrote:
It is proudly a Lisp for people that want to get things done. Any
In Clojure it is idiomatic to have optional args at the front of the
signature. This makes it easy to define convenient caller APIs, but it
leads to bulky let forms like this one (from clojure.core/defmulti)
(let [docstring (if (string? (first options))
(first
Shantanu Kumar kumar.shant...@gmail.com writes:
Could anybody please give me a Clojure 1.1 Maven2 repo URL? It's not
there on Maven central repo yet, and (surprise!) clojars.org doesn't
seem to have it either.
http://build.clojure.org/snapshots/
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On 18 dec, 17:55, IslandRick rick.braumoel...@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone here offer some advice to those who are too ingrained in
using an object-oriented hammer on every nail they see? I know Rich
and Stuart have some good design examples around (I've read many), but
if there are any
Oh and another thing:
In my experience, it's easier to start by putting all the code in a
single package, and only split it up once you get to a level of
complexity that really demands splitting it up.
Emacs/SLIME (and probably other interactive environments) really help
too: once you've
Hi,
just found that a binding-form within a let-form does still use the
outer value.
user (def *val* root binding)
#'user/*val*
user (defn print-val [] (println *val* is: *val*))
#'user/print-val
user (defn let-vs-binding []
(println beginning: *val*)
(let [*val* bound by let]
John john.b.ga...@gmail.com writes:
Hi,
I am trying to use lein.py, from above, on Windows (Vista).
It works nicely for some commands (e.g. lein.py compile),
after removing the extra space in two places e.g.
'leiningen-%s-standalone .jar' -
'leiningen-%s-standalone.jar'
and
Occasionally I have to write a custom def macro, and this would make
life easier. I would have to use it to provide specific feedback, but
it seems like an idea worth pursuing.
On Dec 19, 3:58 pm, Stuart Halloway stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
In Clojure it is idiomatic to have optional args
On 19 dec, 15:25, Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
I guess it's mostly a matter of judging a language by its long-term
merits instead of initial appearance -- just like with so many other
things in life.
That - right there - is a tacit admission that the Clojure community will
Andrea Tortorella elian...@gmail.com writes:
Yes, I'd like to use the new branch not the master one, anyway having
this dependency in project.clj:
[org.clojure/clojure 1.1.0-new-SNAPSHOT]
and using lein repl, I still have 1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT at the repl.
That's a bug. Currently due to I/O
John john.b.ga...@gmail.com writes:
I am trying to use lein.py, from above, on Windows (Vista).
But I still have the following error with the 'lein.py install' and
'lein.py jar' commands:
I don't know Python myself, so I will wait until I hear about these
being resolved before I check this
Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com writes:
I trust the many, many more people that have rejected Lisp for its
hostile syntax and delusions of importance than the statistically
insignificant minority who have actually stuck with it.
Sometimes people are just looking for excuse to criticize.
On Dec 19, 2009, at 5:23 PM, Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
1. Is my explanation correct?
It is. The binding form operates on the var, it doesn't affect name resolution
within the binding form's body. *val* within the body of the binding still
resolves to the let-bound local. While *val* is
Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org writes:
But I'm trying to think of it from the point of view of Joe Q. Coder,
who will take one look at our beloved elegant, expressive Clojure, see
all the parens and run screaming.
But this is the same great idea that everyone who's ever used a lisp
since the
What, exactly, is a clause in clojure? From seeing the term used in
context, I inferred that it meant something along the lines of a
keyword which can optionally be used to change the semantics of a
form. Apparently, it means more than that.
This is valid clojure:
(defn sign [x] (cond ( x 0)
Ah, :else is an unfortunate choice. The cond macro keeps testing
clauses until it finds one that is true. :else was chose because it
is simply not nil, and therefor always true.
I would re-write your fn like so:
(defn sign [x] (cond ( x 0) Positive ( x 0) Negative true
Zero))
Sean
On Dec 19,
can't believe, you guys, WAIST! your time discussing about
parentheses. There are far more interesting things to discuss. Please
don't waist time (time is life, is all we have) in that, and
specially, this is a public group, where knowledge should be share,
not nonsense discussions.
If somebody
Hi,
Am 18.12.2009 um 19:43 schrieb Alex Ott:
Question - this is feature of require? or this is a bug?
The current require cannot handle this situation. You will have to reload all
namespaces with :reload in the right order manually.
See here for more on this issue:
I think this discussion is getting too long, but anyway ..
Coming from an imperative background, especially Java which is a lot
bloated, when I tried to read Lisp code, I start to get the feeling that I
am staring at the same place for a long time. In an imperative setting, it
definitely means
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:22:22 +
Martin Coxall pseudo.m...@me.com wrote:
On 19 Dec 2009, at 13:50, Stefan Kamphausen wrote:
* Reason. They could have been taken away in more than 50 years of
history. Guess what, they are still there.
Guess what? NOBODY uses Lisp. Because of those parens.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:55:13 -0800 (PST)
IslandRick rick.braumoel...@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone here offer some advice to those who are too ingrained in
using an object-oriented hammer on every nail they see? I know Rich
and Stuart have some good design examples around (I've read many), but
Is it possible that people are confusing their inability to comprehend
deeply nested function calls (no offense intended by that - I hit this
often myself) with the strangeness of the perens? I think what others
have said about having to think more about each line of Clojure is
true. It is more
On Dec 19, 8:27 pm, Sean Devlin francoisdev...@gmail.com wrote:
:else was chose because it is simply not nil, and therefor always true.
I suspected something along these lines soon after I posted. I did
some more experimenting and discovered that :foo will work just as
well as :else. So if I
Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org writes:
Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org writes:
But this is the same great idea that everyone who's ever used a lisp
since the dawn of programming has come up with and despite numerous
attempts, to my knowledge not a single one of them has ever taken off.
You're
Give it a shot. Hack up a prototype. Let's see what happens.
On Dec 20, 12:07 am, Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org wrote:
Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org writes:
Alex Osborne a...@meshy.org writes:
But this is the same great idea that everyone who's ever used a lisp
since the dawn of
Is it possible that people are confusing their inability to comprehend
deeply nested function calls (no offense intended by that - I hit this
often myself) with the strangeness of the perens? I think what others
have said about having to think more about each line of Clojure is
true. It is
(defn- special-form [form]
(and (list form)
(symbol? (first form))
(#{#'handle #'bind-continue} (resolve (first form)
I think the second line should say (list? form). (list form) is
always true.
--Brian
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Yes, Martin, please give it a try. Only then can we know if the parenthesis
is real issue or not. There is no point arguing about it. The only
disadvantage is that, over time, people will forget that it is actually a
list. But, hey, if it does not prevent us from writing efficient and correct
code
( x y) how do you read this literally left-to-right?
I've been writing Common Lisp and Clojure for about 6 years now, and I
read that less-than x y without any confusion.
I have almost no problems with prefix notation; even arithmetic (which
I was taught in infix for years) rarely trips me
ajay gopalakrishnan ajgop...@gmail.com writes:
If possible, I would also want to see a macro that allows me to write (x y)
instead of ( x y).
Here's Chouser's infix function, which he apparently has never used
since writing it:
http://paste.lisp.org/display/75230
(+ x y) can be read
Precedence is an overrated thing. You dont run into that issue every day.
When we do we have the support of (). So, a developer must have the option
to disambiguate it when necessary, but otherwise should not have to type the
otherwise redundant () all the time. (All this talk is about arithmetic
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