Stus-List Shower drain won't and "loss" of toilet bowl water fill

[detroito91 via CnC-List]

My shower drain won't pump the water out. I have removed and cleaned the rule 
pump. Nothing there.  The switch will start the pump running. No change in 
water level. At approximately the same time,  the water does not come into the 
toilet bowl.  Turn the knob to fill the bowl, and pump handle. Nothing comes 
in. Empty bowl. I hear water "noise" for a few seconds when I finish pumping. 
It will remove water to holding tank if I manually add water. All thru hulls 
are open and confirmed by resident expert...rick brass.What have I done or not 
done. Where should i check. Happened all of a sudden.81 38 landfall and in 
waterThanks for your helpJim Schwartz SEA YA !Washington nc Sent from my 
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone___

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Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Yes, spinnakers can nearly double your racing costs.  Years ago, at the
height of Touche's racing program, we had 0.6, 0.75 and 1.5 oz chutes, two
part high tech Dyneema/StaSet spin sheets, Harken carbo-ratchet tweakers
(twings), custom chute launch bags, double pole downhaul(goes down each
side of cabin and is trimmed in cockpit), a spinnaker halyard parking
cleat, a "defraculator" (don't ask), light air spin sheets and probably a
few more boat bucks of stuff I can't recall.  I'm guessing all that adds up
to somewhere around 10 big boat bucks.

You don't need to dive in that deep.  A used chute, a few blocks and some
old sheets will start you off just fine.

Yes, you can race spin on a budget and still have a lot of fun.  The best
way to experiennce spin racing and learn is on someone else's boat.  That's
what I did.  I spent several years crewing before I bought Touche' and
started my own racing program.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:37 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of
> everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc.
>
> I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive
> arena. Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for
> us--except for those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to
> race fairly against them.
>
> Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive
> fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of
> the time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our
> collective as...es to come in last among the best local racers.
>
>
That's my story and I am sticking to it!!
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C 36 XL/kcb
>
>
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

I do the JAM fleet with Halcyon my C 37 and now just for regattas
No way This rookie could rustle up enough crew to fly my spinnaker  And very 
few boats doing that class.
However I love spinnaker racing and my solution was for less than the price 
of a new spinnaker I partnered with an amazing J24 racer on a used  Etchells, 
which also  came with brand new set of sails ! All 3 sails worth far more than 
we paid for the boat -and trailer and everything. Was a fun season I know not 
C  but she still gets out enough.
We now have a fleet of  4-5 Etchells every week so head to head racing,  and 
can be handled by 3 people So we only need to find 1 more which we did and he 
sailed with us all hit a few races. I do foredeck and have learned a ton! So 
when I hit the lottery I will get those dark sails and campaign Halcyon in the 
spin fleet!

PS  my partner loved the Etchells so much, he sold the J24 after 20+ year run!

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
S/V Heartbeat
www.flirtingwithfire.com


On Dec 18, 2019, at 1:42 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
 wrote:


JAM vs Spinnaker racing
Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn more 
about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to 
measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew 
skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.

The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the 
start and unforgiving.

I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle 
at the dock.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
___

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___

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Stus-List SailTimer Experiences

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers-

Have any of you used products from SailTimer, e.g. their SailTimer App and 
SailTimer Wind Instrument?  If so, I’d appreciate hearing about your 
experiences with the products and the company.

The company is based in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and headed by Craig Summers.  
Anybody on this list know him, or other employees of the company?

Thank You,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30 MK I #79
Ken Caryl, CO
___

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Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

Aaahh. Thought it was a new item I’ve should buy.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2019, at 4:28 PM, Paul Baker via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  Jib And Main, aka white sails. 
> From: CnC-List  on behalf of James Bibb via 
> CnC-List 
> Sent: December 18, 2019 4:17:13 PM
> To: Chuck S via CnC-List 
> Cc: James Bibb ; Thomas Delaney 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
>  
> James here up in Alaska….
> 
> What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker?  I fly an 
> asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 
> to really keep on top of it.  
> 
> Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer.  I 
> have a good go-to group for about 75% of the races.  
> 
> James Bibb
> SV Darwin’s Folly
> 34R 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a 
>> more competitive JAM fleet. 
>> 
>> ---
>> Thomas C. Delaney
>> 35-1 Snow Goose 
>> City Island, NY
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM  wrote:
>> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
>> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
>> Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
>> JAM vs Spinnaker racing
>> Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn more 
>> about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to 
>> measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew 
>> skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.
>> 
>> The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
>> class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
>> Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at 
>> the start and unforgiving.
>> 
>> I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
>> cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting 
>> idle at the dock.
>> 
>> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

You are correct regarding expense--spin racing just requires more of 
everything--crew, boat, gear, sails, food, drinks, etc. 
I like to race in what my crew prefers and also in the most competitive arena. 
Locally at least, the JAM fleet is not competitive enough for us--except for 
those whose high ratings in light air make it impossible to race fairly against 
them. 
Of course I like to win but more importantly I want race in a competitive 
fleet, even if I come in last but close to my competitors. Winning most of the 
time in our local JAM fleet is not as much fun as busting our collective 
as...es to come in last among the best local racers. 
That's my story and I am sticking to it!!
Charlie NelsonWater PhantomC 36 XL/kcb


-Original Message-
From: Thomas Delaney via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Thomas Delaney 
Sent: Wed, Dec 18, 2019 7:13 pm
Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a more 
competitive JAM fleet. 
---
Thomas C. Delaney
35-1 Snow Goose City Island, NY


On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM  wrote:

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Today's Topics:



 

-- Forwarded message --
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
Cc: 
Bcc: 
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
   JAM vs Spinnaker racing   Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  
It's a way to learn more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones 
skills and a way to measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more 
crew and more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.   
   The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the 
start and unforgiving.   
   I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle 
at the dock.   
   Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[Paul Baker via CnC-List]

Jib And Main, aka white sails.

From: CnC-List  on behalf of James Bibb via 
CnC-List 
Sent: December 18, 2019 4:17:13 PM
To: Chuck S via CnC-List 
Cc: James Bibb ; Thomas Delaney 
Subject: Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

James here up in Alaska….

What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker?  I fly an 
asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 to 
really keep on top of it.

Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer.  I have 
a good go-to group for about 75% of the races.

James Bibb
SV Darwin’s Folly
34R





On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a more 
competitive JAM fleet.

---
Thomas C. Delaney
35-1 Snow Goose
City Island, NY



On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM 
mailto:cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
cnc-list@cnc-list.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
Today's Topics:



-- Forwarded message --
From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>>
To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
JAM vs Spinnaker racing
Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn more 
about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to 
measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew 
skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.

The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the 
start and unforgiving.

I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle 
at the dock.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray


___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[James Bibb via CnC-List]

James here up in Alaska….

What’s the “JAM” component as a supplement for spinnaker?  I fly an 
asymmetrical if I’m short-handed…the dip pole is a beast and I need about 4 to 
really keep on top of it.  

Agree on crew challenges…lot to ask for a consistent group all summer.  I have 
a good go-to group for about 75% of the races.  

James Bibb
SV Darwin’s Folly
34R 





> On Dec 18, 2019, at 3:12 PM, Thomas Delaney via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a 
> more competitive JAM fleet. 
> 
> ---
> Thomas C. Delaney
> 35-1 Snow Goose 
> City Island, NY
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM  > wrote:
> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com 
> 
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com 
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER  >
> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  >
> Cc: 
> Bcc: 
> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
> JAM vs Spinnaker racing
> Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn more 
> about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to 
> measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew 
> skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.
> 
> The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
> class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
> Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at 
> the start and unforgiving.
> 
> I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
> cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle 
> at the dock.
> 
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

[schiller via CnC-List]

Engineers Rule!

Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
BSME, Michigan Tech 1977

On 12/18/2019 6:40 PM, Bill Coleman via CnC-List wrote:


Good suggestion,

15 years ago as my daughter was graduating Case , she said , “bad news 
is I am moving to Baltimore, so I can’t crew for you this summer, but 
the good news is, that Mac (a friend of hers from Case) just got a job 
at the Erie GE, and he can sail for you”


And he has been on the boat ever since, turned into a great crew.  
(look for engineering students!)


Bill Coleman

Erie PA

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List

*Sent:* Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:44 PM
*To:* CNC boat owners, cnc-list
*Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER; Francois Rivard
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

Hey Francois,

I was thinking of you when I started this thread.  I like your 
comments on how the female changes the male behavior.


Your son might be able to recruit some college friends on board.  I 
remember my son brought a couple guys on board and they brought 
friends who turned into a pretty good team.


Chuck Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md

On December 18, 2019 at 9:51 AM Francois Rivard via CnC-List
 wrote:

I wish there was a secret formula on that beyond who you already
know, luck, time, and lots of patience..

This year I decided to up our game and go spinnaker class only to
be reminded (Too many times) why I didn't do it in the past.

Main reason for staying JAM before: crew.

Main challenges this year: crew.

Seems you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding your charming
princes.

I'll give the only one factor that made a lot of difference: Try
to find a nice lady or two.

When she's on board 2 things happen:

1) The language gets cleaned-up

2) The guys that normally just sit around not doing much beyond
pretending they're running a talk show seem to magically become
more enterprising and useful. Apparently the macho thing is still
alive and well

As for us, as much as I love the challenge and action when flying
a conventional spin, I'm seriously considering going back to JAM

Good luck !

-Francois Rivard

1990 34+ "Take Five"

Lake Lanier, GA

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.
Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support
the list - use PayPal to send contribution --
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

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Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[Thomas Delaney via CnC-List]

I don't know, it might be cheaper in the long run to move somewhere with a
more competitive JAM fleet.

---
Thomas C. Delaney
35-1 Snow Goose
City Island, NY



On Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 6:41 PM  wrote:

> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cnc-list-ow...@cnc-list.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of CnC-List digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 13:41:34 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing
> JAM vs Spinnaker racing
> Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn
> more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a
> way to measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and
> more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.
>
> The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the
> spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for
> downwind.   Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more
> aggressive at the start and unforgiving.
>
> I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing,
> cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting
> idle at the dock.
>
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

Good suggestion, 

15 years ago as my daughter was graduating Case , she said , “bad news is I am 
moving to Baltimore, so I can’t crew for you this summer, but the good news is, 
that Mac (a friend of hers from Case) just got a job at the Erie GE, and he can 
sail for you”

And he has been on the boat ever since, turned into a great crew.  (look for 
engineering students!)

 

Bill Coleman

Erie PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of CHARLES 
SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:44 PM
To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER; Francois Rivard
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

 

Hey Francois, 

I was thinking of you when I started this thread.  I like your comments on how 
the female changes the male behavior.   

 

Your son might be able to recruit some college friends on board.  I remember my 
son brought a couple guys on board and they brought friends who turned into a 
pretty good team. 

 

Chuck Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md 

 

On December 18, 2019 at 9:51 AM Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
 wrote: 

I wish there was a secret formula on that beyond who you already know, luck, 
time, and lots of patience.. 

 

This year I decided to up our game and go spinnaker class only to be reminded 
(Too many times) why I didn't do it in the past.   

 

Main reason for staying JAM before: crew.   

Main challenges this year: crew.   

 

Seems you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding your charming princes.   

 

I'll give the only one factor that made a lot of difference: Try to find a nice 
lady or two.   

When she's on board 2 things happen: 

1) The language gets cleaned-up 

2) The guys that normally just sit around not doing much beyond pretending 
they're running a talk show seem to magically become more enterprising and 
useful. Apparently the macho thing is still alive and well 

 

As for us, as much as I love the challenge and action when flying a 
conventional spin, I'm seriously considering going back to JAM  

 

Good luck !  

 

-Francois Rivard 

1990 34+ "Take Five" 

Lake Lanier, GA 

 

 

___ 

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 


  

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I have really enjoyed seeing the range of boats on the course this season,
and it's been educational to see how a well sailed but humble boat like a
Newport 28 (C underbody, but doesn't look quick at all) can beat the
usual runaway winner in our club, a CM1200. I'm told the carbon fibre mast
on the CM1200 is worth several small boats.
I hope to crew again on a boat flying spinnaker so I can continue to learn
and eventually fly my own. I am very comfortable doing everything on my
boat, even solo, but I know that flying the spin will require a crew I can
trust. There are several boats in the club that seem to have the magic
combination of being sailed well, with regular crew that have a lot of fun.
It is perhaps telling that the most fun I've had with the crew I was with
this season was when we were not racing - doing a 6 hour delivery to a
distance race was still the best sail I had on that boat, because the
skipper was far more relaxed and willing to work with the crew, let them
make mistakes, and then show them how to fix it. In the race, we still make
mistakes (or things break), but the yelling that follows doesn't lead to
learning or team-building. And when things break that could have resulted
in serious injury, and it appears the breakage could have been avoided with
better maintenance, design, or more caution, those who are risk averse,
like me, get worried about their safety.

Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 10:42 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> JAM vs Spinnaker racing
> Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn
> more about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a
> way to measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and
> more crew skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.
>
> The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the
> spin class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for
> downwind.   Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more
> aggressive at the start and unforgiving.
>
> I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing,
> cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting
> idle at the dock.
>
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Painting boot top

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

I removed the old cove stripe and replaced using vinyl 3M tape.  Excellent 
result.  The prep is the same as tape, but painting requires taping off and two 
days to apply two coats.  Interlux must sit 16 hours before sanding.  Instead 
the 3M Vinyl tape can be done in a smaller weather window, only needs a few 
hours of dry weather to apply, goes on dry and complete.

I later added stripes of tape above the boot stripe and that really set off the 
boat.  I used blue painter's tape as a spacer to get the stripes all parallel 
and they came out great.  Looks great seven years later.

The original cove stripe on my boat was a thin gold pinstripe tape and the new 
tape is thicker and better quality.  I would highly recommend using vinyl tape 
on a boat as it saves a lot of time.

Chuck, 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md


> On December 18, 2019 at 8:56 AM schiller via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes, We repainted both the Blue and Red boot stripes on our C 35-3 last 
> spring.  We used Interlux Boot Stripe paint.  It came out well.  We've had 
> many compliments on both the update to the boot stripe as well as the other 
> clean up of the boat.  It was pretty dirty and in great need of some TLC when 
> we bought her.
> 
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
> 
> On 12/18/2019 8:33 AM, Rod Stright via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > Has anyone repainted or touched up their boot top and if so how did 
> > it turn out?
> > 
> > Rod Stright
> > 2004 C 99
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 


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Stus-List Stus list painting boot top

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

  Hi Rod,

I did mine using Petit Perfection (Now called Interlux Perfection) and
after 6 coats on one side and 5 on the other it came out: Perfect.  After 5
years, it's still perfect and the only maintenance it has received is the
occasional wipe down using lake water while we're swimming.

Picture:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M3bMlRChkvkRnGy7Qd4sIv1MYTHde0Rj/view?usp=sharing

The reason for the multiple coats was the learning curve / I wasn't willing
to settle for anything short of perfection.

A few pointers:


   - Doing it in the summer when the weather is warm and humid you have to
   get it done before 9:30 am or before the sun is high enough to make any
   difference on surface temperature
   - Experiment with the catalyst mix / test on a smooth test surface
   - My best painting technique was brushing it on with a super soft brush,
   start with horizontal stroke and "tip" downward to break-up the brush
   lines. All that done quickly to keep the wet edge and the tipping is one or
   2 touches ONLY per spot. Just keep going, let it lay down on its own. (I
   have also tried roll and tip with different rollers  / spraying is
   "Verboten" at my yard)
   - Make sure you sand to a very smooth finish as prep and between the
   coats


https://www.wholesalemarine.com/interlux-perfection-high-gloss-marine-paint/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuefvBRDXARIsAFEOQ9FoTqo-FnsenizBeHtOU2VeEiJmLkzHU_QBKDP6T-cfwehXui1HM8AaAjEpEALw_wcB


Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Stus-List JAM vs Spinnaker Racing

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

JAM vs Spinnaker racing
Moving up to Spinnaker racing was always my goal.  It's a way to learn more 
about sailing and racing and the ultimate test of ones skills and a way to 
measure improvements.  But it requires more hands, more crew and more crew 
skills, more money, more tactical/sailing skill.

The boats winning JAM have new white $ails while the boats winning the spin 
class have new black $ail$ for upwind and new colored $ail$ for downwind.   
Plus, the competition among Spinnaker fleet seems a lot more aggressive at the 
start and unforgiving.

I am for whatever gets people out sailing, using their boats more; racing, 
cruising distances or just daysailing more, instead of the boats sitting idle 
at the dock.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute, 1989 C 34R___

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Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hey Francois,
I was thinking of you when I started this thread.  I like your comments on how 
the female changes the male behavior.  

Your son might be able to recruit some college friends on board.  I remember my 
son brought a couple guys on board and they brought friends who turned into a 
pretty good team.

Chuck Resolute, 1989 C 34R, Pasadena, Md


> On December 18, 2019 at 9:51 AM Francois Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I wish there was a secret formula on that beyond who you already know, 
> luck, time, and lots of patience..
> 
> This year I decided to up our game and go spinnaker class only to be 
> reminded (Too many times) why I didn't do it in the past.  
> 
> Main reason for staying JAM before: crew.  
> Main challenges this year: crew.  
> 
> Seems you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding your charming 
> princes.  
> 
> I'll give the only one factor that made a lot of difference: Try to find 
> a nice lady or two.  
> When she's on board 2 things happen:
> 1) The language gets cleaned-up
> 2) The guys that normally just sit around not doing much beyond 
> pretending they're running a talk show seem to magically become more 
> enterprising and useful. Apparently the macho thing is still alive and well
> 
> As for us, as much as I love the challenge and action when flying a 
> conventional spin, I'm seriously considering going back to JAM 
> 
> Good luck ! 
> 
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 


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Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

I wish there was a secret formula on that beyond who you already know,
luck, time, and lots of patience..

This year I decided to up our game and go spinnaker class only to be
reminded (Too many times) why I didn't do it in the past.

Main reason for staying JAM before: crew.
Main challenges this year: crew.

Seems you have to kiss a lot of frogs before finding your charming
princes.

I'll give the only one factor that made a lot of difference: Try to find a
nice lady or two.
When she's on board 2 things happen:
1) The language gets cleaned-up
2) The guys that normally just sit around not doing much beyond pretending
they're running a talk show seem to magically become more enterprising and
useful. Apparently the macho thing is still alive and well

As for us, as much as I love the challenge and action when flying a
conventional spin, I'm seriously considering going back to JAM

Good luck !

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
___

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Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Very insightful, Shawn.  Thanks.

From: Shawn Wright via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 10:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Shawn Wright 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Tips for finding and keeping racing crew

I'm going to give my perspective as a novice racer (although I did race Lasers 
as a teen), and what didn't work to keep me as crew.

I crewed on my neighbour's boat for two distance races, a two day regatta, and 
about half a dozen Sunday club races since the spring. My last race with him 
was a few weeks ago, which marked the third really difficult race in a row. 
Although it meant I would miss the last two distance races of the season, I 
knew I just couldn't do it again. I like the crew, but with me as the newest 
member, it wasn't long before I could see why they weren't as committed as they 
could be - the skipper has an explosive temper and yells at the crew far too 
much, and they told me that he has lost crew over this before. I know that 
yelling is necessary to be heard in 25+ knots, but abusive put-downs are not, 
and quickly undermine crew morale. Our last 3 races were in strong winds, which 
should have been great, but the skipper was reluctant to reef the main when we 
were clearly over powered, and I felt took too many risks with crew safety. 
There also seemed to be a lack of assigned duties other than helm and foredeck, 
and things quickly became chaotic when wind picked up, especially if we were 
short handed. I also found the boat layout was not conducive to quick action by 
the crew - there are 14 control lines led aft, yet the line colouring is fairly 
random, and labels are missing or hard to read. Simple stuff, but when I 
commented on it, I was not taken seriously.  
I learned a lot from him, and respect that he has a ton of experience (and like 
him when not racing), but the combination of too much yelling and fear for my 
own safety made it not worth it for me, especially since I would rather be on 
my own boat. There are a few other boats I would like to crew on, and maybe I 
will one day, but for now, I have signed up to race Callisto in our "Cruising 
Class", which so far has shown 10 boats interested in racing for fun starting 
in the new year. We'll see how it goes - we've been given a "club" rating of 
175 based on main & 135 genoa and 3 blade fixed prop, no spinnaker. The other 
35-2 in the club rates 145 with a folding prop and spinnaker.

I guess I'll need some crew now... 

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto



On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 10:24 AM Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
 wrote:

  Sail with people you like! 

  Let the guys on the bow do the bow; let the guys on the halyards and sheets 
do the halyards and sheets. If you’re steering, steer! If they have a screw up 
you can be pretty sure they know and equally sure they are working to fix it. 
They do t need you to tell them. Ted Turners famous “C’mon! You guys are making 
me look bad!” only works for Ted. 

  Bring beer enough for everybody the ride in and if the weather is good, sail 
in. 

  We always got into race mode about half an hour before we got to the course, 
but when we finished, the first beer came out immediately and the conversations 
started. Not usually about sailing, either. Sometimes we won, usually we 
didn’t—it was a tough fleet! But we always went out with the intention of 
winning—and enjoying ourselves. Things occasionally got tense, but not often. 
And when they did it was me who would mention that “it’s just a sailboat race, 
it’s not life!”  
  We were a tight knit crew but we would always show up at the club after 
sailing and hang with other crews. 

  Another thing, get the chicks involved. At least two and give them important 
positions, don’t just relegate them to the galley or rail. So what if the jib 
comes in a hair slower than if some hefty guy was doing the job if you drive 
well it won’t matter  besides they’re fun to have around and they like being 
part of the gang. And on my boat we always seemed to do better and have more 
fun with them aboard. 

  In the off season we would get together as a crew periodically for drinks and 
a meal. One of the best times was a rainy cold Saturday afternoon when we went 
bowling—something no one had done more than once—with regulars and spare crew 
members all showing up. Most of us needed to take a taxi home!

  Andy

  (Just entering the Alligator/Pungo canal
  And looking forward to getting back to
  Masquerade in
  Oxford, MD)



  Andrew Burton 
  139 Tuckerman Ave
  Middletown, RI 
  USA 02842

  +401 965 5260
  https://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/




On Dec 17, 2019, at 11:26, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
 wrote:


 
Great idea.

Also make sure you all have common goals. Having the super-intense rock 
star who thinks his whole future career rides on finishing first no matter what 
and the guy that wants the crew to give 

Re: Stus-List Painting boot top

[schiller via CnC-List]

Yes, We repainted both the Blue and Red boot stripes on our C 35-3 
last spring.  We used Interlux Boot Stripe paint.  It came out well.  
We've had many compliments on both the update to the boot stripe as well 
as the other clean up of the boat.  It was pretty dirty and in great 
need of some TLC when we bought her.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

On 12/18/2019 8:33 AM, Rod Stright via CnC-List wrote:

Has anyone repainted or touched up their boot top and if so how did it turn out?

Rod Stright
2004 C 99

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray




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Stus-List Painting boot top

[Rod Stright via CnC-List]

Has anyone repainted or touched up their boot top and if so how did it turn out?

Rod Stright
2004 C 99

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Re: Stus-List Mechanical shaft seal options

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My first one lasted from about 1988 to around 2012. I may have left it in a bit 
long.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
Brannon via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 7:03 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Michael Brannon 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Mechanical shaft seal options

I asked about maintenance on the PYI seal and was told to replace the bellows 
every 5-7 years.   I’ve found that it is best to replace the unit as by that 
time the carbon seal is starting to score and requires replacement also.   The 
bellows is the weak link in the system and since failure of the bellows would 
be catastrophic I have followed this schedule.   I’ve been using the seal since 
about 1997 and have been very happy with it.

Sail Safe,

Mike

Mike Brannon
Virginia Lee 93295
C 36 CB
Virginia Beach, VA




On Dec 12, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Just a week ago a dock neighbor of ours had this exact twisting action 
completely separate their bellows on a PYI seal.  The only indication of a 
problem from the helm was the fwap, fwap, fwap sound of the vent hose whipping 
around and hitting the inside of the hull.  Evidently the stainless ring a 
lightly seized to the carbon ring.  Seized together the carbon ring rotated 
with the shaft and twisted up the vent hose until the slack was out and then 
amputated the vent at its remote barb fitting.  Fortunately enough, a 
remarkably small amount of flooding occurred.  When the seal was righted in its 
orientation the leak stopped almost completely despite the circumferential 
tear.  The owner knew that the seal needed replaced and in fact was about to 
depart for the boat yard just a few hundred yards away so that they could have 
the seal replaced during the winter.  His other shaft seal looked just about as 
bad too!

On the PYI seals and others with a bellows design, the service life is 
typically 3 to 5 years before recommended replacement.  The bellows has to be 
flexible so a thinner material is used.  Of course the constant stress of 
compressing the bellows is an additional factor degrading the rubber.  In the 
case of PYI this $2 piece of hose costs ~$100.

In the case of the Lasdrop Gen 2 the $2 hose is ridged and thick to resist the 
compression of the SS spring in the seal pack.  The service interval is 8 to 10 
years.


If I was to go back to a packing style seal what would be involved?


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 12:17 PM Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Josh, Shawn is correct. The 6 inch or so piece of hose on the original packing 
gland. I would bet a high number of boats still have it in service. Mine was 20 
years old when I replaced it and the outer rubber layer had cracks in it. There 
isn’t a lot of water pressure on it but it gets a little twisting force. Any 
original rubber hose should be gone by now. Len

Sent from my iPad
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Re: Stus-List Mechanical shaft seal options

[Michael Brannon via CnC-List]

I asked about maintenance on the PYI seal and was told to replace the bellows 
every 5-7 years.   I’ve found that it is best to replace the unit as by that 
time the carbon seal is starting to score and requires replacement also.   The 
bellows is the weak link in the system and since failure of the bellows would 
be catastrophic I have followed this schedule.   I’ve been using the seal since 
about 1997 and have been very happy with it.   

Sail Safe, 

Mike

Mike Brannon
Virginia Lee 93295
C 36 CB
Virginia Beach, VA



> On Dec 12, 2019, at 1:17 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just a week ago a dock neighbor of ours had this exact twisting action 
> completely separate their bellows on a PYI seal.  The only indication of a 
> problem from the helm was the fwap, fwap, fwap sound of the vent hose 
> whipping around and hitting the inside of the hull.  Evidently the stainless 
> ring a lightly seized to the carbon ring.  Seized together the carbon ring 
> rotated with the shaft and twisted up the vent hose until the slack was out 
> and then amputated the vent at its remote barb fitting.  Fortunately enough, 
> a remarkably small amount of flooding occurred.  When the seal was righted in 
> its orientation the leak stopped almost completely despite the 
> circumferential tear.  The owner knew that the seal needed replaced and in 
> fact was about to depart for the boat yard just a few hundred yards away so 
> that they could have the seal replaced during the winter.  His other shaft 
> seal looked just about as bad too!  
> 
> On the PYI seals and others with a bellows design, the service life is 
> typically 3 to 5 years before recommended replacement.  The bellows has to be 
> flexible so a thinner material is used.  Of course the constant stress of 
> compressing the bellows is an additional factor degrading the rubber.  In the 
> case of PYI this $2 piece of hose costs ~$100.
> 
> In the case of the Lasdrop Gen 2 the $2 hose is ridged and thick to resist 
> the compression of the SS spring in the seal pack.  The service interval is 8 
> to 10 years.
> 
> 
> If I was to go back to a packing style seal what would be involved?
> 
> 
> Josh Muckley 
> S/V Sea Hawk 
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2019, 12:17 PM Len Mitchell via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Josh, Shawn is correct. The 6 inch or so piece of hose on the original 
> packing gland. I would bet a high number of boats still have it in service. 
> Mine was 20 years old when I replaced it and the outer rubber layer had 
> cracks in it. There isn’t a lot of water pressure on it but it gets a little 
> twisting force. Any original rubber hose should be gone by now. Len
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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