Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
John, I installed a below deck autopilot on my Landfall 38. I went with Fred’s suggestion of the Raymarine EV-200 sail with the Octopus 1212LAR12 linear drive. I started to write up the details on my blog but basically have been too busy and forgetful to finish the write up. https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2016/12/below-deck-autopilot.html <https://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2016/12/below-deck-autopilot.html> In short, I installed the linear drive on the forward port side of the radial steerer. Access is through a panel in the quarter berth. This was the simplest installation option which allowed for full mobility of the linear drive. I like the location as it is away from the lazarette and protected from loose objects. The downfall is that the drive body needs to be mounted right below a cockpit scupper, so I removed the scupper and place a new one just aft of the original location. The drive is bolted to the cockpit sole using a 1/2” thick G10 support plate which extends from the drive location to beyond the new scupper. The drive piston is connected to the radial drive using an Edson radial drive rudder stop post which was milled to accept the ball joint of the drive piston rod end. I bolted the mount post to the radial using the threaded bolt holes at the location Edson designed for a forward rudder stop. While I epoxy painted the mount post, I installed it with a DMD sheet insulator and Teff-Gel to eliminate galvanic corrosion(same as aft rudder stop). The rudder indicator was mounted on a custom made bracket which was bolted and threadlocked to the radial rudder post bolts via bolt couplers. I installed the SeaTalkNG backbone connecting the autopilot, instruments, and E7D chart plotter. The p70 controller is mounted starboard of the helm. With the latest LightHouse updates, I can control the autopilot from the chart plotter at the helm. I have my wind instruments connected to the network so in principle I can sail in windvane mode. I just have not tried yet. The performance is specular. Last January I sailed offshore 30NM up the coast beating in 30kts gusts and confused seas. I was only disappointed in the performance of my foul weather gear. - Paul E. 1981 C 38 Landfall S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ > On May 31, 2018, at 5:12 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: > > From: CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com><mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>>> On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via > CnC-List > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:57 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com><mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> > Cc: Frederick G Street <mailto:f...@postaudio.net><mailto:f...@postaudio.net > <mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help. > > Hi, John ? unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is > absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm. You either have to live with > an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the > Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats? displacement?); or you have to > strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that. I know, > Chuck: that?s not recommended by Edson. But there?s really no other choice; > and done correctly, it seems to work just fine. The biggest issue is just > getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space > in the LF38. It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me > after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard > locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and > maintenance. > > I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out > there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they?ll last > much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine. > > And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last > weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat > ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday. Ask away, and I?ll > try to help. > > ? Fred > > Fred Street -- Minneapolis > S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > > > > On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com><mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>> wrote: > > "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear > autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear &
Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
Chuck — thanks for the elaboration. BTW, for anyone thinking about going with a below-deck autopilot, those who have been on the list for a while know that I like the Octopus hydraulic linear drives from Canada. The biggest downside to these is the space you need to leave for the ram rod to protrude behind the drive when the ram is fully retracted. I just came across this hydraulic linear drive today, from a UK supplier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-Linear-Drive-For-Raymarine-Simrad-Autopilots/231515897070?hash=item35e76c3cee <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Combo-Linear-Drive-For-Raymarine-Simrad-Autopilots/231515897070?hash=item35e76c3cee> This would be an excellent option to use with a Raymarine (or Simrad, or Garmin…) pilot system. If/when I decide to go ahead on a below-deck pilot on my LF38, I’ll definitely consider this drive. — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > On May 31, 2018, at 8:37 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List > wrote: > > Fred you are correct. There are several boats that prohibit the use of a > dedicated autopilot tiller arm and the 38 Landfall is one of them.As you > mention, the solution is to direct mount the ram to radial drive wheel with > sufficient reinforcement at the attachment point. That mean beefing up the > radial both above and below the rose joint where the through bolt connects to > the drive wheel, preferably with some heavy gauge aluminum stock that would > fit the contours of the casting. Clamping a stainless plate to the radial > wheel will be a hotbed for corrosion overtime and will weaken the drive wheel > at the attachment point. That’s why it is best to mate aluminum to > aluminum. Try to keep the linear drive level and in-plane with the wheel as > possible since torsional loads placed on the casting will not hold up under > harsh conditions. > And yes, type 2 hydraulic linear drives are far more robust that mechanical > ones. > Chuck Gilchrest > S/V Half Magic > 1983 Landfall 35 > Padanaram, MA > > > From: CnC-List <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via > CnC-List > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:57 PM > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > Cc: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>> > Subject: Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help. > > Hi, John — unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is > absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm. You either have to live with > an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the > Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats’ displacement…); or you have to > strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that. I know, > Chuck: that’s not recommended by Edson. But there’s really no other choice; > and done correctly, it seems to work just fine. The biggest issue is just > getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space > in the LF38. It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me > after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard > locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and > maintenance. > > I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out > there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they’ll last > much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine. > > And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last > weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat > ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday. Ask away, and I’ll > try to help. > > — Fred > > Fred Street -- Minneapolis > S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > > >> On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List > <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: >> >> "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear >> autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear >> drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an >> independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection. We also >> interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin. >> Its not recommended by Edson but figured someone would disregard the warning >> just to have a below deck autopilot" > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
Fred you are correct. There are several boats that prohibit the use of a dedicated autopilot tiller arm and the 38 Landfall is one of them.As you mention, the solution is to direct mount the ram to radial drive wheel with sufficient reinforcement at the attachment point. That mean beefing up the radial both above and below the rose joint where the through bolt connects to the drive wheel, preferably with some heavy gauge aluminum stock that would fit the contours of the casting. Clamping a stainless plate to the radial wheel will be a hotbed for corrosion overtime and will weaken the drive wheel at the attachment point. That’s why it is best to mate aluminum to aluminum. Try to keep the linear drive level and in-plane with the wheel as possible since torsional loads placed on the casting will not hold up under harsh conditions. And yes, type 2 hydraulic linear drives are far more robust that mechanical ones. Chuck Gilchrest S/V Half Magic 1983 Landfall 35 Padanaram, MA From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:57 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Frederick G Street Subject: Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help. Hi, John — unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm. You either have to live with an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats’ displacement…); or you have to strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that. I know, Chuck: that’s not recommended by Edson. But there’s really no other choice; and done correctly, it seems to work just fine. The biggest issue is just getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space in the LF38. It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and maintenance. I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they’ll last much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine. And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday. Ask away, and I’ll try to help. — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection. We also interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin. Its not recommended by Edson but figured someone would disregard the warning just to have a below deck autopilot" ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
Fred Thank you very much. I am willing to try anything as long as it can be a safe installation and that it can talk to my Nima 2000. Sent from my iPhone > On May 30, 2018, at 7:56 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List > wrote: > > Hi, John — unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is > absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm. You either have to live with > an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the > Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats’ displacement…); or you have to > strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that. I know, > Chuck: that’s not recommended by Edson. But there’s really no other choice; > and done correctly, it seems to work just fine. The biggest issue is just > getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space > in the LF38. It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me > after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard > locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and > maintenance. > > I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out > there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they’ll last > much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine. > > And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last > weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat > ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday. Ask away, and I’ll > try to help. > > — Fred > > Fred Street -- Minneapolis > S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > >> On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List >> wrote: >> >> "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear >> autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear >> drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an >> independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection. We also >> interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin. >> Its not recommended by Edson but figured someone would disregard the warning >> just to have a below deck autopilot" > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and > every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use > PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
Hi, John — unless your LF38 is significantly different from mine, there is absolutely no room to add a proper tiller arm. You either have to live with an undersized wheel pilot (as the Simrad is no longer in production, and the Raymarine is right on the edge for our boats’ displacement…); or you have to strengthen the radial drive and attach the ram directly to that. I know, Chuck: that’s not recommended by Edson. But there’s really no other choice; and done correctly, it seems to work just fine. The biggest issue is just getting everything properly mounted in that #$%@# excuse for an engine space in the LF38. It takes a bit of cockpit locker space, but it appears to me after much thought that a transverse mounting of the ram into the starboard locker would be the best in terms of access for both installation and maintenance. I would also suggest that you take a look at the various hydraulic drives out there (specifically Octopus and Simrad/Navico), as I believe they’ll last much longer than the linear electromechanical drives from Raymarine. And to Allan Hester, who asked about below-deck autopilots in a post last weekend, sorry for the delay in replying; I was up trying to get the boat ready for its much-delayed launch this coming Saturday. Ask away, and I’ll try to help. — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( > On May 30, 2018, at 4:17 PM, john wright via CnC-List > wrote: > > "Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear > autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear > drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an > independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection. We also > interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin. > Its not recommended by Edson but figured someone would disregard the warning > just to have a below deck autopilot" ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List problem Landfall38 autopilot help.
"Has any CC Landfall 38 owners installed an Edson tiller arm for linear autopilot drive application? We are trying to install a B RAM1 Linear drive unit and don't have enough exposed rudder shaft to attached an independent Edson bronze tiller arm for linear drive connection. We also interested if anyone has used the quadrant to attach the quick release pin. Its not recommended by Edson but figured someone would disregard the warning just to have a below deck autopilot" ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
