Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
Literally. From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:16 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bruce Whitmore Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! Not to be funny, but where that boat grounded they could walk to shore... Bruce Whitmore (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net From: David via CnC-List To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" Cc: David Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! I cant help but thinking that given their lack of experience, gear, preparation, and age of boat...the fact that they got away alive is a blessing. If not then, it might be next time. These things do not happen in a vacuum and some other event will more than likely befall them again if they do not take the time to gain some experience first. David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) From: CnC-List on behalf of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:01 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bruce Whitmore Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! I go in & out of John's Pass most weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side on Saturday. Very sad. There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however. 1). The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys. That doesn't here. They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw 5 feet with the board up). The current channel is way south now of where chart shows the bouys. 2). They came in at night. Bad move. During the day, they would have had a much better chance of seeing the bouys. Or, if they had been paying attention, they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were entering & exiting the pass. The would have also had a chance to see the breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance. 3). They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach. They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to help someone understand where the channel is. I'm even somewhat surprised they didn't get a call on the radio warning them away. The tender has called me more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure. As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft grounding. It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance. I know they were broke, but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage in the case of a total loss. They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's going to be coming after them for the salvage costs. As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida, while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a grounding perspective. Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them. Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, Bruce Whitmore 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis" Madiera Beach, FL (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
Not to be funny, but where that boat grounded they could walk to shore...
Bruce Whitmore
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
From: David via CnC-List
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"
Cc: David
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
#yiv1821346864 #yiv1821346864 -- P
{margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}#yiv1821346864 I cant help but thinking that
given their lack of experience, gear, preparation, and age of boat...the fact
that they got away alive is a blessing. If not then, it might be next time.
These things do not happen in a vacuum and some other event will more than
likely befall them again if they do not take the time to gain some experience
first.
David F. Risch1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)
From: CnC-List on behalf of Bruce Whitmore via
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:01 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bruce Whitmore
Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! I go in & out of John's Pass most
weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side on Saturday. Very sad.
There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however.
1). The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys. That doesn't
here. They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling
changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more
south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the
bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw
5 feet with the board up). The current channel is way south now of where chart
shows the bouys.
2). They came in at night. Bad move. During the day, they would have had a
much better chance of seeing the bouys. Or, if they had been paying attention,
they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were
entering & exiting the pass. The would have also had a chance to see the
breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance.
3). They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach.
They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to
help someone understand where the channel is. I'm even somewhat surprised they
didn't get a call on the radio warning them away. The tender has called me
more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and
even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure.
As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft
grounding.
It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance. I know they were broke,
but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage
in the case of a total loss. They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's
going to be coming after them for the salvage costs.
As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and
am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida,
while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the
shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a
grounding perspective.
Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them.
Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, Bruce Whitmore
1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL
(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___
Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
How's the saying go? Mistakes are what happens when you don't have expirience. Expirience is what you get from making mistakes. Bruce, I'm glad you chimed in cause all I could think was, There are 2 types of sailors - those who have run aground and those who will. I've heard advice from world cruisers that in order to afford the life style you should pay off the boat which allows you to eliminate the insurance. The insurance for global waters is evidently quite prohibitive. I wouldn't know since mine is limited to the line of demarcation at the Delaware bay and the line of demarcation for the Chesapeake Bay. Though I did easily receive a one time delivery coverage for 2 weeks when we brought it down from NYC. Josh On Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 8:24 AM David via CnC-List wrote: > I cant help but thinking that given their lack of experience, gear, > preparation, and age of boat...the fact that they got away alive is a > blessing. If not then, it might be next time. These things do not happen > in a vacuum and some other event will more than likely befall them again if > they do not take the time to gain some experience first. > > > > > David F. Risch > > 1981 40-2 > > (401) 419-4650 (cell) > > > -- > *From:* CnC-List on behalf of Bruce > Whitmore via CnC-List > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 8:01 AM > *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com > *Cc:* Bruce Whitmore > > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! > I go in & out of John's Pass most weekends, and saw the boat laying on its > side on Saturday. Very sad. > > There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however. > > 1). The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys. That doesn't > here. They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the > shoaling changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the > bouys more south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we > had made to the bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the > marked channel (we draw 5 feet with the board up). The current channel is > way south now of where chart shows the bouys. > > 2). They came in at night. Bad move. During the day, they would have > had a much better chance of seeing the bouys. Or, if they had been paying > attention, they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where > they were entering & exiting the pass. The would have also had a chance to > see the breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance. > > 3). They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right > approach. They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more > than happy to help someone understand where the channel is. I'm even > somewhat surprised they didn't get a call on the radio warning them away. > The tender has called me more than once after they moved the markers to > advise me of the change, and even recommended that I stay 200 yards south > of the green mark just to be sure. > > As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft > grounding. > > It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance. I know they were > broke, but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds > for salvage in the case of a total loss. They can crowdfund all they want, > but someone's going to be coming after them for the salvage costs. > > As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found > (and am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West > Florida, while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather > perspective, the shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida > treacherous from a grounding perspective. > > Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for > them. > > Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, > > Bruce Whitmore > 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis" > Madiera Beach, FL > (847) 404-5092 (mobile) > bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
I cant help but thinking that given their lack of experience, gear, preparation, and age of boat...the fact that they got away alive is a blessing. If not then, it might be next time. These things do not happen in a vacuum and some other event will more than likely befall them again if they do not take the time to gain some experience first. David F. Risch 1981 40-2 (401) 419-4650 (cell) From: CnC-List on behalf of Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 8:01 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bruce Whitmore Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! I go in & out of John's Pass most weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side on Saturday. Very sad. There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however. 1). The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys. That doesn't here. They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw 5 feet with the board up). The current channel is way south now of where chart shows the bouys. 2). They came in at night. Bad move. During the day, they would have had a much better chance of seeing the bouys. Or, if they had been paying attention, they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were entering & exiting the pass. The would have also had a chance to see the breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance. 3). They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach. They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to help someone understand where the channel is. I'm even somewhat surprised they didn't get a call on the radio warning them away. The tender has called me more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure. As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft grounding. It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance. I know they were broke, but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage in the case of a total loss. They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's going to be coming after them for the salvage costs. As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida, while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a grounding perspective. Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them. Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, Bruce Whitmore 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis" Madiera Beach, FL (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
I go in & out of John's Pass most weekends, and saw the boat laying on its side on Saturday. Very sad. There's a few things I've learned from the local reports, however. 1). The couple was relying on charts to identify the bouys. That doesn't here. They move the markers in the pass somewhat regularly, as the shoaling changes where the sandbars are, and in fact, they just moved the bouys more south about a month ago, partially as a response to reports we had made to the bridge tender about touching bottom while still in the marked channel (we draw 5 feet with the board up). The current channel is way south now of where chart shows the bouys. 2). They came in at night. Bad move. During the day, they would have had a much better chance of seeing the bouys. Or, if they had been paying attention, they would have seen larger boats going in & out, and seen where they were entering & exiting the pass. The would have also had a chance to see the breakers ahead, and known to stand off and reconsider the entrance. 3). They could have called the bridge tender to reconfirm the right approach. They folks who run the bridges are very nice, and would be more than happy to help someone understand where the channel is. I'm even somewhat surprised they didn't get a call on the radio warning them away. The tender has called me more than once after they moved the markers to advise me of the change, and even recommended that I stay 200 yards south of the green mark just to be sure. As for the keel bolts, I agree they shouldn't have failed during a soft grounding. It's also bothersome that they didn't have insurance. I know they were broke, but boaters have a responsibility to make sure that there are funds for salvage in the case of a total loss. They can crowdfund all they want, but someone's going to be coming after them for the salvage costs. As an experienced sailor (20+ years in Chicago on Lake Michigan), I found (and am still finding) that I have lots to learn sailing down here in West Florida, while sailing here is much less hazardous from a weather perspective, the shallows, tides & currents make this part of Florida treacherous from a grounding perspective. Not trying to pile on the couple for their loss, in fact I feel badly for them. Just thinking about the lessons that can be learned, Bruce Whitmore 1994 C&C 37/40+ "Astralis"Madiera Beach, FL (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
‘Click bait’ Dave 33-2 windstar Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 11, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Josh Muckley wrote: > > News article seemed more focused on deminishing them and their limited > preparations than actually focusing on what caused them to run aground. It > did address that they had recent charts. I think considerable more > investigative reporting could have been used. > > Josh Muckley > S/V Sea Hawk > 1989 C&C 37+ > Solomons, MD > >> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:57 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List >> wrote: >> Bad luck? Bad prep? >> >> http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/11/couple-sells-all-possessions-for-sailboat-sinks-2-days-into-trip.html >> >> Dennis C. >> Touche' 35-1 #83 >> Mandeville, LA >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and >> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use >> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
John's Pass, where they wrecked, is plagued with shifting sand and shoals. Sadly, a lot of inlets along Florida's west coast have the same problem due to a lack of government money for dredging. Running aground is a fact of life around here. Lots of skinny water. No big deal, usually. But losing a keel in soft sand under normal conditions? That's what happens to a sailboat built 48 years ago to a price point. I don't know what the keel bolts were made of in Columbias, but they had reached the end of their road. More than a few people buy these old, neglected sailboats and think they can forge an adventure out of little money. A year or so ago, a guy and his teenaged kids sank and drowned off the Florida coast in a similar sailboat. Jack Brennan Former C&C 25 Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30 Tierra Verde, Fl. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO Original message From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List Date:02/11/2018 8:53 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Short Cruise! News article seemed more focused on deminishing them and their limited preparations than actually focusing on what caused them to run aground. It did address that they had recent charts. I think considerable more investigative reporting could have been used. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:57 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: Bad luck? Bad prep? http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/11/couple-sells-all-possessions-for-sailboat-sinks-2-days-into-trip.html Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Short Cruise!
News article seemed more focused on deminishing them and their limited preparations than actually focusing on what caused them to run aground. It did address that they had recent charts. I think considerable more investigative reporting could have been used. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 7:57 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: > Bad luck? Bad prep? > > > http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/02/11/couple-sells-all-possessions-for-sailboat-sinks-2-days-into-trip.html > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
