Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

[Ross Singer]

Sorry about that!  SO.  MANY.  THREADS.

Anyway, sign me up on being on board with exploring that route, as well.

-Ross.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Kari R Smith  wrote:

> See again my post from 6/8 on this idea.
>
> Kari Smith
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Ross Singer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:51 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?
>
> I kind of agree with Shaun's point: why on earth would some organization
> want to assume this?
>
> In the interest of not limiting ourselves to one solution to this problem,
> I'll throw another possibility that I haven't seen raised (and definitely
> has downsides, but they all do):  what if we to set aside the
> organizational aspects of the annual conference and try to find an existing
> conference that Code4Lib could be a track or sub-conference or whatever
> within?  I'm not suggesting these conferences, per se, but using them for
> analogy: what would the downside of existing *within* ALA or CIL or an
> established conference be?  Are there advantages?  Are there conferences
> that would be particularly good fits?  Would we just be pushing our current
> headaches into other compartments?
>
> I guess for me, I'm not so hell-bent on the annual conference being it's
> own exclusive event as much as being able to have it at all.
>
> -Ross.
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Galen Charlton 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess
> >  wrote:
> > > Does anyone else want to self-nominate, to join a group to
> > > investigate making Code4Lib fiscally sustainable?
> >
> > I am interested in joining such a group. I have some relevant
> > experience to share, including stints as a member and chair of the
> > Evergreen project's oversight board. The Evergreen project became a
> > member project of the Software Freedom Conservancy in 2011; since
> > then, its conferences have been organized with Conservancy acting as
> > fiduciary and fiscal agent.
> >
> > --
> > Galen Charlton
> > Infrastructure and Added Services Manager Equinox Software, Inc. /
> > Open Your Library
> > email:  g...@esilibrary.com
> > direct: +1 770-709-5581
> > cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> > skype:  gmcharlt
> > web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
> > Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
> > http://evergreen-ils.org
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Formalizing Code4Lib?

[Ross Singer]

I kind of agree with Shaun's point: why on earth would some organization
want to assume this?

In the interest of not limiting ourselves to one solution to this problem,
I'll throw another possibility that I haven't seen raised (and definitely
has downsides, but they all do):  what if we to set aside the
organizational aspects of the annual conference and try to find an existing
conference that Code4Lib could be a track or sub-conference or whatever
within?  I'm not suggesting these conferences, per se, but using them for
analogy: what would the downside of existing *within* ALA or CIL or an
established conference be?  Are there advantages?  Are there conferences
that would be particularly good fits?  Would we just be pushing our current
headaches into other compartments?

I guess for me, I'm not so hell-bent on the annual conference being it's
own exclusive event as much as being able to have it at all.

-Ross.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:21 PM, Galen Charlton  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess
>  wrote:
> > Does anyone else want to self-nominate, to join a group to investigate
> > making Code4Lib fiscally sustainable?
>
> I am interested in joining such a group. I have some relevant
> experience to share, including stints as a member and chair of the
> Evergreen project's oversight board. The Evergreen project became a
> member project of the Software Freedom Conservancy in 2011; since
> then, its conferences have been organized with Conservancy acting as
> fiduciary and fiscal agent.
>
> --
> Galen Charlton
> Infrastructure and Added Services Manager
> Equinox Software, Inc. / Open Your Library
> email:  g...@esilibrary.com
> direct: +1 770-709-5581
> cell:   +1 404-984-4366
> skype:  gmcharlt
> web:http://www.esilibrary.com/
> Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org &
> http://evergreen-ils.org
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4lib 2017 is dead; Long Live Code4lib 2017

[Ross Singer]

Sorry about the delay in moderating that: Google jumped into the moderation
screen with my work account (which doesn't have permission for that) which
was then empty (but didn't obviously say "you're in the wrong account and
don't have permission to do this, dummy") so I assumed it was Francis'
message pending and somebody else had already approved it or whatever.

-Ross.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 3:42 PM, Brian Rogers  wrote:

> Hi Francis -
>
> I sent a reply to your code4libconf Google Group post... but looks like
> it's still in moderation mode.
>
> We're speaking w/the other group on Monday afternoon in a conference call.
> We'll have concrete information to share after that.
>
> - Brian
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] What happened to the code4lib blog?

[Ross Singer]

For future reference:

https://rossfsinger.com/blog/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in-json/

A series of missteps and ambivalence is causing the code4lib domain to not
redirect.

Anyway, good to see the community work around that!

-Ross.

On Tuesday, April 12, 2016, LeVan,Ralph  wrote:

> Good enough for documentation purposes.
>
> Thanks Terry!
>
> And, Thanks, Ross!!
>
> Ralph
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ]
> On Behalf Of Terry Reese
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 5:04 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Subject: Re: What happened to the code4lib blog?
>
> You can use the wayback machine:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20150905201543/http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/bl
> og/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in-json/
>
> --tr
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ]
> On Behalf Of LeVan,Ralph
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 4:54 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] What happened to the code4lib blog?
>
> I'm playing around with Elasticsearch and need to convert MARC to JSON.
> Of the various proposals to do that, I liked Ross Singer's the best.
>
>
> http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/blog/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in
> -json/
>
> Sadly, that link is dead.  Any chance of reviving it?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Ralph
>
> --
>
> Ralph LeVan
>
> OCLC * Senior Research Scientist, OCLC Research
>
> 6565 Kilgour Place, Dublin, Ohio USA 43017
>
> T +1-614-764-6115 * F +1-614-718-7603
>
> [OCLC]
>
> OCLC.org * Blog<
> http://www.oclc.org/blog/main/?cmpid=emailsig_blog> * Facebook<
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/OCLC/20530435726> * Twitter<
> http://twitter.com/oclc> * YouTube
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Chattanooga Bid for 2017

[Ross Singer]

BEST PROPOSAL EVAR

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 10:07 AM, Mary Jinglewski 
wrote:

>  On behalf of our proposal committee, I am pleased to confirm that
> Chattanooga has now submitted a bid to host Code4Lib 2017.
>
> Our proposal can be found at http://lab.lib.utc.edu/c4l-cha
>
> Mary Jinglewski, Wendy Hagenmaier, and Andrea Schurr are attending Code4Lib
> 2016 in Philly and would be happy to talk about our proposal in person.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mary
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC shutting down xISBN and xID (was Re: [CODE4LIB] Matching print and electronic editions of the same book)

[Ross Singer]

Rachel, for what it's worth, it had nothing to do with your email (we were
notified of it a couple of weeks ago, I guess because we were one of the
few paying customers of the service).

-Ross.

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Maderik, Rachel A 
wrote:

> Yes, thanks Bill for pointing that out, and now of course I'm regretting
> my initial email. Regardless of the rate limit and lack of updates, this
> API still has enormous value, and I'm sorry to see they're responding by
> shutting it down (instead of keeping it on in a "frozen" state, if nothing
> else).
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Fleming, Jason
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 12:06 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] OCLC shutting down xISBN and xID (was Re:
> [CODE4LIB] Matching print and electronic editions of the same book)
>
> As a heavy user of the xID service I would look forward to a discussion
> about what alternatives there might be.
>
> Thank you Bill for the link t to that announcement.
>
>
> -Jason
>
> Jason Fleming
> Information Technology Librarian
>
> 601 South College Road | Wilmington, NC  28403-5990
> T: 910-962-2675 | flemi...@uncw.edu
> http://library.uncw.edu
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> William Denton
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015 11:44 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] OCLC shutting down xISBN and xID (was Re: [CODE4LIB]
> Matching print and electronic editions of the same book)
>
> Rachel's message evidently prompted this:
>
> http://www.oclc.org/developer/news/2015/change-to-xid-services.en.html
>
> "OCLC offers an array of APIs that provide additional access points to
> WorldCat and the WorldShare platform, allowing libraries and partners to
> use the data inside applications in new and creative ways.  While we add
> APIs at times, we also must retire some.  The xID product, including xISBN,
> xISSN and xOCLCNum, has experience low usage and will be retired from the
> OCLC API offering. No new keys are being issued, and the service will be
> unavailable beginning March 15, 2016."
>
> OCLC people:  how about releasing the data behind the xID services?  A big
> static dump of all of the numbers (ISBN, LCCN, OCLCnum) and how they're
> related.
> It'll be out of date the next day, but it'll still be very, very useful.
>
> When you needed them, the xID services were EXTREMELY helpful.  Perhaps
> part of the cause of low usage was the access restrictions, both of number
> of requests and commercial use.  If the data had been open, many more uses
> would have arisen.  I say make it open now, under something like an Open
> Data Commons Attribution License.
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 10 December 2015, Maderik, Rachel A wrote:
>
> > Just a warning about OCLC's xID API: a few weeks ago I requested an
> access token to bypass the rate limit, and was told that they are no longer
> giving these out. I was also told that the data in xID has not been updated
> for some time (I don't know when they stopped, but I think the rep told me
> it was at least a year out of date). It was very disappointing to learn
> this; if the project is essentially dead, this fact should be advertised
> (at the very least, they should take down the pricing list!).
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf
> > Of William Denton
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 5:40 PM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Matching print and electronic editions of the
> > same book
> >
> > Thanks!  That opens things up.  We do have a lot of OCLC numbers.  For
> > my example book, there's an 035 with three of them, including
> > 841051199. If I look at
> >
> > http://worldcat.org/oclc/841051199
> >
> > it takes me to the human-readable page, but
> >
> > http://worldcat.org/oclc/841051199.rdf
> >
> > shows it all in RDF, and I can see a lot of things like
> >
> >  > rdf:about="http://experiment.worldcat.org/entity/work/data/1613596711#
> > Place/japan">
> >
> > so I can pick out the work ID and look it up.  (Perhaps the work ID be
> > specified directly there?)
> >
> > So that would work, but aha, I just noticed I could make it a little
> simpler by using xOCLCNUM to get the work ID, which is the owi field here:
> >
> > http://xisbn.worldcat.org/webservices/xid/oclcnum/841051199?method=get
> > Metadata&format=json&fl=*
> >
> > And then I can go to
> >
> > http://experiment.worldcat.org/entity/work/data/1613596711.rdf
> >
> > and get all the workExample links, and use those OCLC numbers.
> >
> > (Which I'm sure you knew, Roy, but perhaps didn't mention because of
> > the rate-limiting, but as far as I know our subscription means I can
> > get an access token so I can do some larger queries.)
> >
> > A first run of something like this would take a while to process
> everything, but I'

Re: [CODE4LIB] Get It Services / Cart

[Ross Singer]

Actually it doesn't seem like a terribly obvious use case: how would a user
be in a position to send multiple things for enrichment? What happens after
they're enriched?

Ümlaut seems kind of a perfect intermediary for this, but you'll need to
work out the before and after (mainly the use case!)

-Ross.

On Friday, March 6, 2015, Smith, Steelsen  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm new to this list, so if there are any conventions I'm ignoring I'd
> appreciate someone letting me know.
>
> I'm working on a project to allow requests that will go to multiple
> systems to be aggregated in a requesting interface. It would be implemented
> as an independent application, allow a "shopping list" of items to be
> added, and be able to perform some back end business logic (availability
> checking, metadata enrichment, etc.).
>
> This seems like a very common use case so I'm surprised that I've had
> trouble finding anyone who has published an application that works like
> this - the closest I've found being Umlaut which doesn't seem to support
> multiple simultaneous requesting (although I couldn't get as far as
> "request" in any sample system to be certain). Is anyone on the list aware
> of such a project?
>
> Thanks,
> Steelsen
>
>
>
> ___
> Steelsen Smith
> Fulfillment Systems Specialist
> Enterprise Systems Group
> Yale Library IT
> 203.432.
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] linked data question

[Ross Singer]

We have taken a somewhat different approach to how we manage our RDF data:
after years of using a native triple store, we found that it was actually
extremely impractical for the way we actually used our data. Triple stores
are fine for ad-hoc queries over arbitrary data, but that didn't reflect
our usage. Our schema, while flexible, was still predefined and our joins
were always on the same properties.

We found it made a lot more sense to store all of our data about a given
subject (concise bounded descriptions) as a document in a document-style
database (we use MongoDB). This took care of our SPARQL DESCRIBE queries.

However, since majority of the data we use are the equivalent of a SPARQL
CONSTRUCT made up of fixed joins over these CBD graphs, we decided to cache
these joined documents as their own documents in a read-only cache
collection, which we refer to as views.  Then, if any of the CBD graphs
change, we invalidate the view and rebuild the cache documents.

I think this usage pattern would also pretty closely reflect how a linked
library data system might work, as well. The data doesn't actually change
all that much, and there will likely be very few ad hoc queries.

This also addresses a problem in the suggestion that Jeff made regarding
using your own URIs with 3rd party data: it gets pretty complicated to
manage changes to the graph in this scenario. By storing the original CBDs
as is, and generating graphs with your URIs over the external data as a
view, it's far easier to isolate what gets changed with particular updates
(not to mention that large data updates from various sources in a native
triple store is painful).

You can take a look at what we wrote if you want more details:
https://github.com/talis/tripod-php

This still doesn't address how to deal with keeping your local copy of the
external data up to date, and I don't know that there are a lot of good or
standard answers to that yet. That said, I think it's a solvable problem:
we just haven't gotten to that scale yet.

-Ross.
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015, Mixter,Jeff  wrote:

> There are a few issue here that might need to be parsed out. The first is
> indexing Linked Data. It seems to make sense from a performance perspective
> to have a local index for the URIs and their names. For example
>
> http://viaf.org/viaf/102333412 name: Austen, Jane
>
> Pretend 'name' is an index field and the URI is the index key or ID. If
> you are using a Lucene index, you can imagine having multiple names based
> on language variation, preferred label variation (i.e. 'Austen, Jane,
> 1775-1817') etc.
>
> Another issue has to do with what is cached in the index. I would argue
> that nothing other then the lookup values should be cached. The system
> should go off the the key/ID (i.e. the URI) and fetch the data from it.
> This is important because data can change all the time and you do not want
> to rely on having to download monthly data dumps to rebuild your index.
> Plus the idea of data dumps stands in opposition to the idea of Linked Data
> and the Web (i.e. its on the Web for a reason and that is to be accessed on
> the Web not downloaded and stored in a silo).
>
> The third issue has to do with using VIAF URIs or coining your own local
> URIs. This is a bit of a toss up but I would argue that it would be better
> if you could coin your own URI and simply use a sameAs link to other
> entities, such as VIAF, LCSH, FAST etc. This would allow you to have a
> localized world-view of the entity. Or, to explain it better, it would
> allow you to put a localized lens on the entity and show things like how
> does this entity relate to other things that I have, know about, vend to
> patrons, etc.  There are also practice reasons for this. If I see a
> hot-link in my local Library OPAC for 'Jane Austen' I expect to stay within
> my local OPAC domain when I click on it. I do not want to be taken out to
> VIAF or another place. The reason for clicking it is to learn about it
> within the context of what I am doing on that website. Finally, coining
> your own URI allows you provide people with a bookmark-able URL. That is
> important for search engine visibility.
>
> The last issue would require the index example above to not have a VIAF
> URI but rather a local URI that could be retrieved from a local Triple
> Store. In the store you could provide sameAs links to VIAF as well as
> localized information about the entity such as what he/she has authored
> that you current have available.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Mixter
> Research Support Specialist
> OCLC Research
> 614-761-5159
> mixt...@oclc.org 
>
> 
> From: Code for Libraries > on
> behalf of Esmé Cowles >
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 3:09 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] linked data question
>
> Yes, I would expect each organization to fetch linked data resources and
> maintain their own local indexes, and probably also

Re: [CODE4LIB] Automatically updating documentation with screenshots

[Ross Singer]

Owen,

It would probably be possible to automate this via Selenium.  What you could 
have is a build that runs a bunch of ‘tests’ that the sole purpose is call 
‘captureEntirePageScreenshot()’ (or whatever it’s called in your language 
binding to Selenium).

A good place to crib ideas from would be SauceLabs: if you run a browser test 
suite with them, the report they give you is peppered with screenshots (and not 
just at failures, like Selenium usually does).

So on every merge to master/trunk, whatever your ‘screenshot’ build could run, 
regenerating all your screenshots.

Granted, this won’t help you if you need to modify the images at all (arrows, 
boxes, etc.), but you might be able to automate that bit, too.

Good luck!
-Ross.

> On Jan 26, 2015, at 11:37 AM, Owen Stephens  wrote:
> 
> I work on a web application and when we release a new version there are often 
> updates to make to existing user documentation - especially screenshots where 
> unrelated changes (e.g. the addition of a new top level menu item) can make 
> whole sets of screenshots desirable across all the documentation.
> 
> I'm looking at whether we could automate the generation of screenshots 
> somehow which has taken me into documentation tools such as Sphinx 
> [http://sphinx-doc.org] and Dexy [http://dexy.it]. However, ideally I want 
> something simple enough for the application support staff to be able to use.
> 
> Anyone done/tried anything like this?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Owen
> 
> Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
> Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> Email: o...@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936

Re: [CODE4LIB] lita

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 6, 2015, at 5:01 PM, Cindi Blyberg  wrote:
> 
> Based on previous experience, I doubt this truly captures whether someone
> thinks of themselves as a librarian.  I've always found those categories
> arbitrary (an MLS does not a librarian make) and sometimes divisive.

An MLS might not a librarian make, but you generally cannot get a job as one 
without it.

And if you’re not actually a librarian, I’m not sure why you’re calling 
yourself one, unless we’re talking shorthand in lieu of boring people to death 
about what you do for a living (which I’ve certainly used in the past). But I 
don’t think that would apply in the context of ALA.

-Ross.
> 
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Andreas Orphanides 
> wrote:
> 
>> There's a different dues schedule for librarians (-slash-certification
>> required-slash-managerial) and "support staff", so along that dimension it
>> presumably gets tracked, at the very least.
>> 
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Cindi Blyberg  wrote:
>> 
>>> Honestly, I don't know if ALA tracks whether people have an MLS/related
>>> degree or if that's self-selected.  I know folks who call themselves
>>> librarians but who aren't degreed--those would be self-selected.
>>> 
>>> I'll see if we can find this out--I'm curious!
>>> 
>>> -Cindi (wearing my LITA hat)
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Haitz, Lisa (haitzlm) <
>>> hait...@ucmail.uc.edu> wrote:
>>> 
 I'd be curious about something: how many LITA members are not
>> librarians?
 I work in a library as a web developer, which includes a medical
>> library,
 but I don’t have an MLS. So, question: is the  Code4Lib list more open
>> to
 technical folks, but not necessarily librarians?
 
 Lisa Haitz
 University of Cincinnati Libraries
 
>>> 
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Forwarding blog post: Apple, Android and NFC – how should libraries prepare? (RFID stuffs)

[Ross Singer]

I guess there’s “what do you mean by ‘C4L'” and “what do you mean by 
‘standards’” that need to be clarified here.

Cary is right, this list/community/whatever is definitely well represented by 
people who sit on formal standards committees or are involved in the 
organizations that create them, etc.

But I think more important is the “what do you mean by ‘standards’” question: 
C4L has definitely spawned several specifications (COinS, UnAPI, etc.) and (in 
my mind) has been under-utilized in this arena for a few years.  You’ve got a 
gathering of smart, like-minded people: if you want to create a spec, solicit 
your idea, start a mailing list, follow the ROGUE ’05 rules [1], and let a 
thousand specifications bloom.

We’re generally in need of a spec, not a standard, I’ve found (although they’re 
definitely not mutually exclusive!).

-Ross.
1. http://wiki.code4lib.org/Rogue

On Oct 7, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Salazar, Christina  
wrote:

> OH NO! (shudder) I’m pretty sure no one is suggesting a "formalized c4l" 
> AGAIN - we've been there done that, relatively recently too.
> 
> I think what we're talking about is a way to represent c4l interests in 
> standards making bodies.
> 
> And just for my own edification, if you're saying c4l IS represented in 
> standards making bodies, please tell me who do I talk to? For instance on the 
> RFID thing, who can I talk to in order to find out HOW and IF this 
> conversation is happening with American standards making bodies?
> 
> Or do you mean INDIVIDUALS who participate in c4l are represented in 
> standards making bodies?
> 
> Christina
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
> Francis Kayiwa
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:07 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Forwarding blog post: Apple, Android and NFC – how 
> should libraries prepare? (RFID stuffs)
> 
> On 10/07/2014 02:03 PM, Cary Gordon wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  NISO (and LITA, ASIS&T,
>> etc.) are quite well represented on this list, and I don't believe 
>> that a formalized c4l would give us any more say in standards that we have 
>> already.
> 
> +1
> 
> 
> ./fxk
> 
> 
> --
> You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Technology for Librarians / Libraries for Technologians

[Ross Singer]

On Sep 4, 2014, at 8:25 PM, Kyle Banerjee  wrote:
> 
> I think some of these issues are distractions as they aren't specific to
> libraries, aren't really different than any IT work involving private
> information (i.e. virtually all IT work), and don't require library
> expertise to understand. However, on the question of whether the job of
> Director of Library IT is more about librarianship or IT, I'd always
> assumed the former is the case.
> 
> Library IT needs to leverage library specific knowledge/technologies to
> perform functions that "plain" IT cannot if the cost of an independent IT
> unit is to be justified. Everyone relates to public search interfaces, but
> there's an entire infrastructure that makes a combination of licensed,
> purchased, locally created, and borrowed resources with differential access
> for various user groups (some of them external) possible.
> 
> Knowledge of formats, protocols, standards, and common practices is
> helpful, but understanding business needs that are common to libraries but
> not really thought of elsewhere is also essential.  If we mostly duplicate
> commodity functions that are already performed elsewhere, we just set
> ourselves up to be outsourced.
> 

Yes.  Exactly.  This is the sort of distinction you should be expecting from 
your vendors, as well, btw.

Although, at the same time, there’s a balance.  The “unique snowflake” 
mentality has just as often been used to disregard trends and technologies from 
outside libraries.

You want an understanding of library needs, workflows, and culture without any 
navel gazing.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest

[Ross Singer]

Can we have a vote whether or not we think the last vote was legitimate?

Also, can we have an extended debate about the survey results?

I think I speak for everybody when I say we'd all like that.

-Ross.


On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Michael North 
wrote:

> Before we are "done", one question :  "do we defer to the majority
> opinion" ???
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Sarah Shealy
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 2:28 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: Jobs Digest
>
> Can we be done with this now?
>
> Sarah
>
> > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:20:21 -0700
> > From: rosalynm...@gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >
> > survey closed, results here:
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-WCZSC7Z/
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Eddie Bachle  wrote:
> >
> > > +1 for triple point reference!
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Michael North
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > No, not liquid form, but at its "triple point" forms.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On
> > > > Behalf Of Brad Baxter
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:38 PM
> > > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > > > Subject: Re: Jobs Digest
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Lisa Rabey
> > > > 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Valerie Forrestal
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > lord help us all can someone just set up an online poll and we
> > > > > > can be done with it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Water is wet.
> > > > > Discuss.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > In its liquid form.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *Eddie Bachle*Database and Applications Administrator Albion College
> > > 611 East Porter Street
> > > Albion, Michigan 49224
> > > Phone: 517/629-0967
> > > E-mail: ebac...@albion.edu
> > >
>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest - I definitely didn't rip off someone else's job posting

[Ross Singer]

THIS IS NOT EXACTLY WHAT WE AGREED TO
On May 29, 2014 7:38 AM, "Andreas Orphanides"  wrote:

> YAY FULL JOB POSTINGS
>
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:40 PM, BWS Johnson  >wrote:
>
> > Research Analyst I
> > Royt's Treehouse
> >
> > The prestigious Tennant's Treehouse is accepting applications for the
> > position of Research Analyst I for the Juniper Club Library. A
> > collaborative position in nature, the Research Analyst I will indenture
> > themselves to the library duhrector artisanally collecting redundant data
> > via Diebold-O-Tron. The Research Analyst I will be abused at any given
> > opportunity, be paid only in hard liquor, maintain all digital object
> > collections, regardless of relevance or irrelevance of said collection
> and
> > shepherd digital humanities projects, whatevertheheckthoseare.
> >
> >
> > The successful candidate will have 17 years experience in Koha despite
> > this being an entry level position that only freshly minted graduates may
> > apply to and that proficiency not possibly existing in this reality,
> > archiving meaningless discussion threads, ragging on royt at any given
> > opportunity, and collating mimeographs since we forgot to take this out
> of
> > our job description sometime when MARC was merely a glimmer in a data
> > nerd's eye. None of these skills relate in the slightest to counting
> votes,
> > but that's what HR told us, and ours is not to reason why.
> >
> > We will not tell you where Royt's Treehouse is located since you are
> meant
> > to already know. As with conference, you were meant to apply for this
> post
> > prior to it making the rounds in your hemisphere, so if you are located
> > outside of the continental United States, too damn bad.
> >
> > For further information, feel free to contact abesottedphoe...@yahoo.com
> ,
> > where your email will fester in a pile since your résumé will be thrown
> out
> > for having a funny name or not matching spurious keywords.
> >
> > All applicants are REQUIRED to have a beating a dead horse Code{4}Lib
> > t-shirt.
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] College Question!

[Ross Singer]

If you want to be a systems librarian, I wouldn't bother with the MLIS,
honestly.  Yes, it's still a requirement on a lot of job postings _now_,
but more and more that's being dropped from systems roles in lieu of
relevant experience.

The other sad reality is that an entry level systems librarian position
probably makes less than a developer or sysadmin position in the same
department.

Fwiw, I have no masters in anything, a BA in theatre (the BEST degree, but
that's another thread), and have worked in library technology
professionally for 20 years (oh, hey there, ravages of time).  While not
having an MLIS has kept me out of consideration for some jobs in the past,
almost all of them just wanted a masters in _something_, which, in that
case, get a masters in CS or CE.

-Ross.
On May 28, 2014 11:18 PM, "Riley Childs"  wrote:

> I was curious about the type of degrees people had. I am heading off to
> college next year (class of 2015) and am trying to figure out what to major
> in. I want to be a systems librarian, but I can't tell what to major in! I
> wanted to hear about what paths people took and how they ended up where
> they are now.
>
> BTW Y'All at NC State need a better tour bus driver (not the c4l tour, the
> admissions tour) ;) the bus ride was like a rickety roller coaster...   🎢
>
> Also, if you know of any scholarships please let me know ;) you would be
> my BFF :P
>
>
> Riley Childs
> Student
> Asst. Head of IT Services
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> (704) 497-2086
> RileyChilds.net
> Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Ross Singer RE: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest

[Ross Singer]

Rosy, don't turn off the poll; it will cause more confusion to move to
diebold-o-tron than it's worth.

After all, you didn't ask to be princess, but if the tiara fits...

-Ross.


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Riley Childs  wrote:

> Keep the tiara (good effort), but rather then have a ton of desperate
> polls (maybe exaggerating), we might want to have a central archive of the
> results. This I a big decision (at least I think it is) but the voting
> machine is there for stuff like this.
> Just my $0.02...
> //Riley
>
> Riley Childs
> Student
> Asst. Head of IT Services
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> (704) 497-2086
> RileyChilds.net
>  Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Rosalyn Metz" 
> Sent: ‎5/‎28/‎2014 7:18 PM
> To: "CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" 
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Ross Singer RE: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest
>
> sigh.
>
> if we really think a die-bold-a-tron for this is necessary i'll turn off
> the survey and i'll give back my tiara.
>
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Riley Childs  >wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Riley Childs
> > Student
> > Asst. Head of IT Services
> > Charlotte United Christian Academy
> > (704) 497-2086
> > RileyChilds.net
> > Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
> > ____
> > From: Doran, Michael D<mailto:do...@uta.edu>
> > Sent: ‎5/‎28/‎2014 4:53 PM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Ross Singer RE: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest
> >
> > I would request a third option in the poll(s):
> >
> > [ ] I prefer to receive both the old and new formats of job emails
> >
> > (And no, this isn't a joke.  I mainly like the old, individual format;
> > however I also like the digest offering a quick glance at where the jobs
> > are geographically and getting the digests means only one additional
> email
> > a day, and I can live with that.)
> >
> > -- Michael
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf
> Of
> > > Riley Childs
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 3:43 PM
> > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > > Subject: [CODE4LIB] Ross Singer RE: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest
> > >
> > > Yes a poll is great, but it needs to be done though the die-bold-a
> tron,
> > > Ross Singer can set it up...
> > >
> > > Reason we like to do it though our system because then we are able to
> > > view community consensus and plus this is how it is always done.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > //Riley
> > >
> > > Riley Childs
> > > Student
> > > Asst. Head of IT Services
> > > Charlotte United Christian Academy
> > > (704) 497-2086
> > > RileyChilds.net
> > > Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
> > > 
> > > From: Rosalyn Metz<mailto:rosalynm...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: ‎5/‎28/‎2014 4:30 PM
> > > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
> > > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Jobs Digest
> > >
> > > a tiara!  i'm so on that.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 12:57 PM, Valerie Forrestal <
> > > valerie.forres...@csi.cuny.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > god bless you rosy metz. if you give me your address
> > > (bitly.com/TiaraMe)
> > > > i will gladly send you a tiara for your good deed.
> > > >
> > > > ~val
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Valerie Forrestal
> > > > Web Services Librarian/Asst. Professor
> > > > City University of New York
> > > > College of Staten Island Library
> > > > 2800 Victory Blvd., 1L-109I
> > > > Staten Island, N.Y. 10314
> > > > Phone: 718.982.4023
> > > > valerie.forres...@csi.cuny.edu
> > > >
> > > > On 5/28/2014 1:34 PM, Rosalyn Metz wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I created a poll so this never ending thread will finally end.
> > > Although
> > > >> I'm
> > > >> sure someone will complain about the poll and so the thread will
> live
> > > on.
> > > >>
> > > >> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5HRS8KJ
> > > >>
> > > >> Y'all have a week to com

Re: [CODE4LIB] distributed responsibility for web content

[Ross Singer]

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:37 PM, Riley Childs wrote:

> designate someone to be the "copy editor",
>

Well, I kind of got the impression from the original question that this was
kind of out of the question.

However, I think it might be useful to look at development practices for a
solution: for example, we don't merge anything to master that hasn't been
code reviewed (well, that's not 100% true, but anything of significance),
it seems like something similar could exist for your web content.  Nothing
goes live without being peer reviewed and it's up to the author to get a
reviewer if they want to release the content, which at least then makes
multiple parties responsible for what goes up.  People can still abuse the
system, but that's a human management issue, at that point, not a
technological one.

-Ross.

From: Nathan Rogers
> Sent: ‎4/‎17/‎2014 10:16 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] distributed responsibility for web content
>
> It sounds like what you need to do is a bit of guerrilla education for
> people on good methods of writing for the web versus things that are not
> appropriate for a professional setting. I have dealt with (and still am) a
> similar situation. The best approach I find is often to do a better version
> without stomping on their changes, talk to them, and explain why it is a
> better approach. Eventually if you are lucky they will have that ‘Aha’
> moment.
>
> On Apr 17, 2014, at 9:13 PM, Miles Fidelman 
> wrote:
>
> > Simon LeFranc wrote:
> >> There is no one person in the organization with the time or authority
> to act as editorial overseer. What are some techniques for ensuring that
> the site maintains a clean, professional appearance?
> >>
> >
> > Give up and let chaos reign supreme?
> >
> > Miles Fidelman
> >
> > --
> > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> > In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?

[Ross Singer]

On Mar 31, 2014, at 12:45 PM, Kevin S. Clarke  wrote:

> rsinger++
> 
>> Runs until next Monday at ~11:45PM PDT
> 
> Though I am a bit curious why an East coast meeting gets a PDT deadline...  
> :-)

Well, that's because that's where my shared hosting server is and I'm too lazy 
to do the math.

-Ross.
> 
> Kevin

Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?

[Ross Singer]

http://vote.code4lib.org/election/30

Runs until next Monday at ~11:45PM PDT

-Ross.

On Mar 31, 2014, at 12:11 PM, Sarah Shealy  wrote:

> Anyone know how to do that? I could make that Google survey, but the 
> Diboldatron is beyond me.
> 
>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 12:01:11 -0400
>> From: rchi...@cucawarriors.com
>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>> 
>> Well we need to setup the Die-bold a torn
>> 
>> On 3/31/14, 8:38 AM, "Sarah Shealy"  wrote:
>> 
>>> I think we can go ahead with the 3 we have. Next meeting can be somewhere
>>> different.
>>> 
 Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:14:34 -0400
 From: rchi...@cucawarriors.com
 Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
 To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
 
 -1 Please no, not saying anything, but please no
 
 On 3/31/14, 7:45 AM, "Simon Spero"  wrote:
 
> Bob Jones University library?
> 
> 
> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:30 PM, Andreas Orphanides
> wrote:
> 
>> Be sure to specify WHICH Greenville. Greenville NC isn't exactly
>> central,
>> but people might not be paying attention.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Kevin S. Clarke >> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Riley Childs
>> 
>>> wrote:
 Charlotte
>>> 
>>> Riley can do some arranging.
>>> 
 Columbia
>>> 
>>> Sarah can do some arranging.
>>> 
 Greenville
>>> 
>>> Like Ross, I'd also be interested in this (as it's close to me),
 but
>>> do we have anyone on the ground there willing to organize this?  If
>>> not, I'd say our choices are Columbia and Greenville.  Yay for
 voting!
>>> 
>>> Kevin
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?

[Ross Singer]

I can set up diebold-o-tron ballot, if we have some candidates.

(I'd also probably be in for Greeneville or vicinity).

-Ross.

On Friday, March 28, 2014, Riley Childs  wrote:

> Does anyone know how to setup a vote?
>
> Riley Childs
> Student
> Asst. Head of IT Services
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> (704) 497-2086
> RileyChilds.net
> Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
> 
> From: Sarah Shealy
> Sent: ‎3/‎28/‎2014 8:46 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
>
> I think before you reserve a room we should at least find out who would be
> willing to go to Charlotte vs somewhere else. We don't really need a
> consensus but if 2 people want to go to one place and 8 want to go some
> other place that should at least be taken into consideration.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 28, 2014, at 7:45 PM, "Riley Childs" 
> wrote:
> >
> > I now just need a Timeframe
> >
> > Riley Childs
> > Student
> > Asst. Head of IT Services
> > Charlotte United Christian Academy
> > (704) 497-2086
> > RileyChilds.net
> > Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
> > 
> > From: Sarah Shealy
> > Sent: ‎3/‎28/‎2014 7:37 PM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
> >
> > I can get a room in the library where I work too, in Columbia. Or
> It-ology or the SOCO coworking center (maybe on that one).
> >
> > It would be easier for me to have it in Columbia, where I live, planning
> wise. But if someone in Charlotte wants to set it up, I'm willing to just
> help out.
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 22:18:27 +
> >> From: sforr...@bcgov.net
> >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
> >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >>
> >> A Swedish meatball fan then?
> >>
> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
> >>
> >>
> >> Riley Childs  wrote:
> >>
> >> I can get us a room at a library near Ikea...
> >>
> >> Riley Childs
> >> Junior
> >> IT Admin
> >> email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com
> >> office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101
> >> cell: +1 (704) 497-2086
> >>
> >> Please Think Before Hitting Reply All
> >> I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services
> >> 
> >> From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sarah
> Shealy [sarah.she...@outlook.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 5:09 PM
> >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
> >>
> >> I do love a good Ikea trip!
> >>
> >> Georgians, Virginians, Tennesseans are all welcome. Anyone else as
> well. Maybe it'll be a Southeast Regional.
> >>
> >>> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 15:35:07 -0400
> >>> From: akorp...@ncsu.edu
> >>> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
> >>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> >>>
> >>> Profounder words have never been spoken.
> >>>
> >>> ikea++
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Riley Childs <
> rchi...@cucawarriors.com>wrote:
> >>>
>  My vote is Ikea :) but I am open
> 
>  Riley Childs
>  Student
>  Asst. Head of IT Services
>  Charlotte United Christian Academy
>  (704) 497-2086
>  RileyChilds.net
>  Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistake>
> www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org http://www.beaufortcountylibrary.org 
> > "For Leisure - For Learning - For Life"
> > 
> > From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of
> Kevin
>  S.
> > Clarke [kscla...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2014 1:21 PM
> > To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Carolina Regional Group?
> >
> > I'd be interested in a regional meetup anywhere near NC/SC.
> >
> > Kevin
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Riley Childs <
> rchi...@cucawarriors.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >> I live in Charlotte, but would trudge out to SCŠ
> >>
> >> //Riley
> >>
> >>> On 3/28/14, 12:31 PM, "Sarah Shealy" 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm in Columbia as well Colin, so at the very least we can do a
>  Columbia
> >>> meetup.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>
>  On Mar 28, 2014, at 12:01 PM, "WILDER, COLIN" 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Dress

[Ross Singer]

While certainly every conference attendee's thoughts are of "Who is he or
she wearing?", it's not uncommon for delegates to opt for a sporty and
sassy pret-a-porter look from Levi Strauss, perhaps paired with a top from
American Apparel. Depending on the weather or temperature at the conference
center, some may wish to add a fleece shell to present an air that there
might be more to them than what you see on Github. Others go with a smart
cardigan, a look certainly intended as an homage to the latter half of the
conference name.

-Ross.

On Saturday, March 22, 2014, Riley Childs  wrote:

> I hate to sound all pompous, but what does the avg. Conference attendee
> wear.
>
> Riley Childs
> Student
> Asst. Head of IT Services
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> (704) 497-2086
> RileyChilds.net
> Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Reminder: Send in your questions for Valerie!

[Ross Singer]

On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:22 PM, Roy Tennant  wrote:
>
> We will also be distributing index cards at the event and monitoring the
> Twitter stream (not IRC!) for questions as well


You've changed, man.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Question About Code4Lib 2014 Streaming

[Ross Singer]

Vine or GTFO.

-Ross.

On Wednesday, March 19, 2014, Riley Childs  wrote:

> It零  will be recoreded an streamed in 15 sec intervals on instagram ;P
>
> On 3/19/14, 10:41 AM, "Michael Schofield" >
> wrote:
>
> >It's the video feed with some sort of instafilter set to dubsteb. dub4lib.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ]
> On Behalf Of
> >Roy Tennant
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:12 AM
> >To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> >Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Question About Code4Lib 2014 Streaming
> >
> >So...there's an unofficial stream? I can't wait to see that one...
> >Roy
> >
> >
> >On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 7:00 AM, Riley Childs
> >>wrote:
> >
> >> http://YouTube.com/Code4Lib is the official stream.
> >>
> >> Riley Childs
> >> Junior
> >> IT Admin
> >> email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com 
> >> office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101
> >> cell: +1 (704) 497-2086
> >>
> >> Please Think Before Hitting Reply All
> >> I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services
> >> 
> >> From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ] On
> Behalf Of
> >> Matthew Sherman [matt.r.sher...@gmail.com ]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:19 AM
> >> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> >> Subject: [CODE4LIB] Question About Code4Lib 2014 Streaming
> >>
> >> I figure I should ask for those of us who sadly cannot make it this
> >> year, where will we be able to find the streaming of the conference?
> >> Thanks for everyone who is putting in the hard-work to put on the
> >> conference.
> >>
> >> Matt Sherman
> >>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Welcome to Roy4Lib

[Ross Singer]

When you're alone and you think you hear the tinkling of ice cubes in a
glass and the faint smell of Scotch,

that was Roy.

That person building a treehouse as you drive past,

that was Roy.

Out of the corner of your eye, there was a mustached man,

that was Roy.

When you delete a MARC record,

you are the Roy.

-Ross.


On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:33 AM, McAulay, Elizabeth <
emcau...@library.ucla.edu> wrote:

> we have all met Roy, search your feelings, you know it to be true.
>
> 
> From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] on behalf of Barnes,
> Hugh [hugh.bar...@lincoln.ac.nz]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 7:51 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Welcome to Roy4Lib
>
> And vegetarians, and Mormons, and folks who never met Roy :)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Riley Childs
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 February 2014 4:28 p.m.
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Welcome to Roy4Lib
>
> Just a reminder there are minors on this listserv ;P
>
> Riley Childs
> Student
> Asst. Head of IT Services
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> (704) 497-2086
> RileyChilds.net
> Sent from my Windows Phone, please excuse mistakes
> 
> From: Wilhelmina Randtke
> Sent: 2/24/2014 10:24 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Welcome to Roy4Lib
>
> My neighbor made this bacon vodka, and it was amazing
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Bacon-Infused-Vodka/
>
> -Wilhelmina Randtke
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Michael J. Giarlo <
> leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> > Bacon being cooked in a liquor store?  Wow, California is awesome.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Roy Tennant 
> wrote:
> >
> >> That would make sense, but I think in this particular instance I was
> >> watching bacon being cooked.
> >> Roy
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Michael J. Giarlo <
> >> leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Clearly taken in the liquor store.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Cindi Trainor Blyberg
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Well, I do like the photo that Roy uses everywhere, but I have to
> >> > > say I like this one better:
> >> > >
> >> > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/23341397@N00/3769032245
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Roy  wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Hmm. Call it roys4lib.org and put pictures of all the list's
> >> > > > Roys on there...
> >> > > > Mr. Tennant's picture would have to be first, of course, and be
> >> > > > the biggest.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 2/21/2014 6:51 PM, Rosalyn Metz wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> so tempted to buy roy4lib.org and put up a glass of scotch
> there.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:46 PM, Edward M Corrado <
> >> > ecorr...@ecorrado.us
> >> > > >> >wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>  Roy4lib has consumed to much Scotch - after all, it is Friday.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> --
> >> > > >>> Edward M. Corrado
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> On Feb 21, 2014, at 18:13, Roy Tennant 
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>  roy4lib.org is ALWAYS down. I mean, it just makes too much
> >> > > >>> sense
> >> > for
> >> > > it
> >> > > 
> >> > > >>> to
> >> > > >>>
> >> > >  be in any other state.
> >> > >  Roy
> >> > > 
> >> > > 
> >> > >  On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Rosalyn Metz <
> >> > rosalynm...@gmail.com>
> >> > > 
> >> > > >>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>
> >> > >  it appears that roy4lib.org is also down
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Frumkin, Jeremy <
> >> > > > frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >  Welcome to the Roy4Lib discussion list. This list is
> >> > > > intended to
> >> > > >> facilitate discussion on Roy Tennant's new world library
> >> > > >> order,
> >> > the
> >> > > >>
> >> > > > role
> >> > > >>>
> >> > >  of bacon (including kosher and vegetarian based varieties)
> >> > >  in this
> >> > > >> context, and the long, long, long, long, long drawn out
> >> > > >> death of
> >> > > MARC.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> If you believe you have subscribed to this list in error,
> >> > > >> please
> >> > > email
> >> > > >>
> >> > > > the
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> admin at r...@roy4lib.org.
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --
> >> > > >> --
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> Jeremy Frumkin
> >> > > >> Assistant Dean / Chief Technology Strategist University of
> >> > > >> Arizona Libraries
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> +1 520.626.7296
> >> > > >> frumk...@u.library.arizona.edu
> >> > > >> ---

Re: [CODE4LIB] code4lib.org down

[Ross Singer]

But what is the status of roy4lib.org?

-Ross.

On Friday, February 21, 2014, Wick, Ryan  wrote:

> We should be back up now.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ]
> On Behalf Of Rosalyn Metz
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 1:19 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Subject: [CODE4LIB] code4lib.org down
>
> :(
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] how to unsubscribe this list?

[Ross Singer]

Move over, Worldcat, I want something leaner!

-Ross.


On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Rosalyn Metz  wrote:

> http://bacolicio.us/http://oclc.org/en-US/home.html
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Roy Tennant  wrote:
>
> > On the contrary, this discussion list has the OCLC Bacon Stamp of
> Approval.
> > Carry on!
> > Roy
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Michael J. Giarlo <
> > leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > That's not what I heard Roy Tennant saying.
> > > ಠ_ಠ
> > >
> > > -Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Eric Lease Morgan 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > So, we're shutting it [Code4Lib] down?
> > > >
> > > > We interrupt this program for an important statement:
> > > >
> > > >   Before things get out of hand and rumors start flying, there are
> > > >   no plans about shutting down the mailing list. An individual
> > > >   simply wanted to be unsubscribed, and that has been done.
> > > >
> > > > Now back to our original programming.
> > > >
> > > > —
> > > > ELM
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EZProxy changes / alternatives ?

[Ross Singer]

Not only that, but it's also expressly designed for the purpose of reverse
proxying subscription databases in a library environment.  There are tons
of things vendors do that would be incredibly frustrating to get working
properly in Squid, nginx, or Apache that have already been solved by
EZProxy.  Which is self-fulfilling: vendors then cater to what EZProxy does
(rather than improving access to their resources).

Art Rhyno used to say that the major thing that was inhibiting the
widespread adoption of Shibboleth was how simple and cheap EZProxy was.  I
think there is a lot of truth to that.

-Ross.


On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Kyle Banerjee wrote:

> > EZproxy is a self-installing statically compiled single binary download,
> > with a built-in administrative interface that makes most common
> > administrative tasks point-and-click, that works on Linux and Windows
> > systems, and requires very little in the way of resources to run.  It
> also
> > has a library of a few hundred vendor stanzas that can be copied and
> pasted
> > and work the majority of the time.
> >
> > To successfully replace EZproxy in this setting, it would need to be
> > packaged in such a way that it is equally easy to install and maintain,
> and
> > the library of vendor stanzas would need to be developed as apache conf.d
> > files.
> >
>
> This. The real gain with EZProxy is that configuring it is crazy easy. You
> just drop it in and run it -- it's feasible for someone with no experience
> in proxying or systems administration to get it operational in a few
> minutes. That is why I think virtualizing a system that makes accessing the
> more powerful features of EZProxy easy is a good alternative.
>
> kyle
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EZProxy changes / alternatives ?

[Ross Singer]

This is amazing!

Maybe a github repo for config blocks is in order?  I figure the only way
to work out the myriad kinks in this would be scale.

-Ross.


On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Andrew Anderson  wrote:

> When OCLC first announced their purchase of EZproxy, we started a low
> priority research project to see what the alternatives were a few years
> ago, and what it would take to bring them into a production ready state.
>  The two open source solutions we evaluated were Squid and Apache HTTPd.
>  We considered other options (e.g. Apache Traffic Server), but limited the
> research to these two pieces of software since they are already widely used
> and familiar to most system administrators.
>
> Long story short, Squid did not support URL rewriting in a way that we
> felt would be able to be supported well, between requiring patches to the
> core C++ server code, or an external rewriting processes, or an ICAP server
> implementation.  Some of that has improved a bit since the original
> evaluation, but the built-in support for URL rewriting may still need some
> time to mature.  Another aspect of Squid that did not seem to be a good fit
> was that it is somewhat limited in its authentication mechanisms vs Apache
> HTTPd.
>
> So we moved on to evaluating Apache HTTPd with the mod_proxy family of
> modules.  While Apache HTTPd does not support the advanced cache federation
> features as Squid, it has grown to be a robust proxy solution in its own
> right, and the 2.4 release appears to have all of the required pieces out
> of the box, with the mod_proxy_html module functionality.  In addition to
> basic URL rewriting support, you get full HTTP protocol support, mature
> IPv6 support, GZIP support, just about any authentication mechanism you
> need, a server that you can self-host content with easily, as well as a
> built-in HTTP object cache.
>
> How would it work?
>
> Here's the current EZproxy stanza for ProQuest:
>
> HTTPHeader X-Requested-With
> HTTPHeader Accept-Encoding
> Title ProQuest
> URL http://search.proquest.com/ip
> DJ proquest.com
> HJ gateway.proquest.com
> DJ umi.com
> HJ fedsearch.proquest.com
> HJ literature.proquest.com
> DJ conquest-leg-insight.com
> DJ conquestsystems.com
> DJ m.search.proquest.com
> DJ media.proquest.com
> NeverProxy order.proquest.com
> NeverProxy rss.proquest.com
>
> Here's an Apache HTTPd configuration using ProQuest that accomplishes much
> of the same functionality for the main search.proquest.com interface:
>
> 
>  ServerName search.proquest.com.fqdn
>
>  ProxyRequests Off
>  ProxyVia On
>
>  RewriteEngine On
>  RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://search.proquest.com/$1 [P]
>
>  
>   AllowMethods GET POST OPTIONS
>   ProxyPassReverse http://search.proquest.com/
>   ProxyPassReverseCookieDomain search.proquest.comsearch.proquest.com.fqdn
>   CacheEnable disk
>   SetOutputFilter INFLATE;DEFLATE
>   Header Append Vary User-Agent env=!dont-vary
>   # Put Authentication directives here
>   ErrorDocument 401 /path/to/login
>   Require Valid-User
>  
> 
>
> A few notes on this:
>
> - There is no need for NeverProxy: if you do not define a VirtualHost for
> the hostname, it is not proxied.  So instead of HJ and DJ lines, you add a
> new VirtualHost block for each hostname that needs to be proxied.  The
> astute will ask "what about services that have dozens or hundreds of host
> entries, like Sage?"  Those can be handled by the ProxyExpress features in
> Apache HTTPd.
>
> - There is no need for HTTPHeader: since Apache HTTPd is a full HTTP
> proxy/server, it supports all HTTP headers natively.
>
> - Some of the hostnames that are in EZproxy stanzas are not needed, and
> some are legacy hostnames that are no longer used by the vendor
>
> - Some of the hostnames that are in EZproxy stanzas are for CDN hosted
> content that requires no special access (e.g. JavaScript/CSS/graphics
> assets that make up the vendor's user interface).  Another example: how
> many of you have "DJ google.com" in one of your stanzas? Now how many of
> you registered your IP addresses with Google in any way?  Outside of Google
> Scholar, I suspect the answer to those questions are "nearly everyone" and
> "nearly no one", respectively.
>
> - Some of the hostnames are for things that no sane person would do: How
> many people run their discovery services through their EZproxy server vs.
> authenticating their discovery platform by IP address with vendors directly?
>
> - Something that this configuration does that EZproxy does not do is
> enable object caching.  This can easily save 30-50% of your upstream
> bandwidth usage (Proxy/ProxySSL in EZproxy can achieve the same result with
> an external caching proxy server).
>
> - More complex vendor platforms (e.g. Gale Cengage) need ProxyHTML
> directives and ProxyHTMLURLMap configured, and multiple VirtualHost
> sections to get them fully working.  These can be a little fun to get
> working initially.
>
> - Some services need redirects edited to work corr

Re: [CODE4LIB] EZProxy changes / alternatives ?

[Ross Singer]

I hate to say it, but Squid will not be simple to get the kind of results 
EZProxy gets.  Shibboleth can take care of a handful (of probably some of your 
larger, more commonly accessed?) resources.  Maybe Squid can take care of the 
rest, but my guess is it's the smaller, more niche resources that are the most 
problematic.

Stuart, can you go into some more detail regarding OCLC's changes?  Is it just 
a massive price hike?  Are they egregious terms of service?

Once upon a time (pre-OCLC), EZProxy was a one-time fee, is that not the case 
anymore?  I mean, can you not just keep running the version you're currently on?

-Ross.

On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:43 PM, Riley Childs  wrote:

> My solution came from Google, but it was people setting up the solution, from 
> what I can tell EZProxy had the market cornered, but Squid should be simple 
> enough to setup, and with the coming changes more people in your boat will be 
> able to solutionize!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:40 PM, "stuart yeates"  wrote:
>> 
>> I probably should have been more specific.
>> 
>> Does anyone have experience switching from EzProxy to anything else?
>> 
>> Is anyone else aware of the coming OCLC changes and considering switching?
>> 
>> Does anyone have a worked example like: "My EzProxy config for site Y
>> looked like A; after the switch, my X config for site Z looked like B"?
>> 
>> I'm aware of this good article:
>> http://journal.code4lib.org/articles/7470
>> 
>> cheers
>> stuart
>> 
>> 
>>> On 29/01/14 15:24, stuart yeates wrote:
>>> We've just received notification of forth-coming changes to EZProxy,
>>> which will require us to pay an arm and a leg for future versions to
>>> install locally and/or host with OCLC AU with a ~ 10,000km round trip.
>>> 
>>> What are the alternatives?
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> stuart
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Stuart Yeates
>> Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/

Re: [CODE4LIB] Job: Test Post at Anonymous

[Ross Singer]

No, it's cool. I've learned about mocking objects since then.

-Ross.


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Michael B. Klein wrote:

> I am interested in the post testing job. Please send details. Do not be
> fooled by Ross Singer; he is dangerous. The last post he tested caused the
> entire 2005 Atlantic hurricane season.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Ross Singer 
> wrote:
>
> > HELLO, IS THERE AN OPTION FOR TELECOMMUTING.
> >
> > ASKING FOR A FRIEND WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE AS A TEST POSTER.
> > -ROSS.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:51 AM,  wrote:
> >
> > > Test Post
> > > Anonymous
> > > New London
> > >
> > > This is a test post.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brought to you by code4lib jobs: http://jobs.code4lib.org/job/11613/
> > >
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Job: Test Post at Anonymous

[Ross Singer]

HELLO, IS THERE AN OPTION FOR TELECOMMUTING.

ASKING FOR A FRIEND WITH LOTS OF EXPERIENCE AS A TEST POSTER.
-ROSS.


On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 11:51 AM,  wrote:

> Test Post
> Anonymous
> New London
>
> This is a test post.
>
>
>
> Brought to you by code4lib jobs: http://jobs.code4lib.org/job/11613/
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] transforming marc to rdf

[Ross Singer]

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Eric Lease Morgan  wrote:

>
> “There is more than one way to skin a cat.” There are advantages and
> disadvantages to every software solution.
>

I think what Mark and I are trying to say is that the first step to this
"solution" is not by applying software at existing data, but by trying to
figure out the problem you're actually trying to solve.  Any "linked data
future" cannot be a simple as a technologist giving some magic tool to
archivists and librarians.

You still haven't really answered my question about what you're hoping to
achieve and who stands to benefit from it.  I don't see how assigning a
bunch of arbitrary identifiers, properties, and values to a description of
a collection of archival materials (especially since you're talking about
doing this in XSLT, so your archival collections can't even really be
related to /each other/ much less anything else).

Who is going to use going to use this data?  What are they supposed to do
with it?  What will libraries and archives get from it?

I am certainly not above academic exercises (or without my own), but I
absolutely can see *no* beneficial "archival linked data" created simply by
pointing an XSLT at a bunch of EAD and MARCXML and I certainly can't
without a clear vision of the model that said XSLT is supposed to generate.
 The key part here is the data model, and taking a 'software
solution'-first approach does nothing to address that.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] transforming marc to rdf

[Ross Singer]

Eric, I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what you're hoping to get.

Going from MARC to RDF was my great white whale for years while Talis' main
business interests involved both of those (although not archival
collections).  Anything that will remodel MARC to (decent) RDF is going be:

   - Non-trivial to install
   - Non-trivial to use
   - Slow
   - Require massive amounts of memory/disk space

Choose any two.

Frankly, I don't see how you can generate RDF that anybody would want to
use from XSLT: where would your URIs come from?  What, exactly, are you
modeling?

I guess, to me, it would be a lot more helpful for you to take an archival
MARC record, and, by hand, build an RDF graph from it, then figure out your
mappings.  I just don't see any way to make it "easy-to-use", at least, not
until you have an agreed upon model to map to.

-Ross.


On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Christian Pietsch <
chr.pietsch+web4...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> you seem to have missed the Catmandu tutorial at SWIB13. Luckily there
> is a basic tutorial and a demo online: http://librecat.org/
>
> The demo happens to be about transforming MARC to RDF using the
> Catmandu Perl framework. It gives you full flexibility by separating
> the importer from the exporter and providing a domain specific
> language for “fixing” the data in between. Catmandu also has easy
> to use wrappers for popular search engines and databases (both SQL and
> NoSQL), making it a complete ETL (extract, transform, load) toolkit.
>
> Disclosure: I am a Catmandu contributor. It's free and open source
> software.
>
> Cheers,
> Christian
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 09:59:46PM -0500, Eric Lease Morgan wrote:
> > Converting MARC to RDF has been more problematic. There are various
> > tools enabling me to convert my original MARC into MARCXML and/or
> > MODS. After that I can reportably use a few tools to convert to RDF:
> >
> >   * MARC21slim2RDFDC.xsl [3] - functions, but even for
> > my tastes the resulting RDF is too vanilla. [4]
> >
> >   * modsrdf.xsl [5] - optimal, but when I use my
> > transformation engine (Saxon), I do not get XML
> > but rather plain text
> >
> >   * BIBFRAME Tools [6] - sports nice ontologies, but
> > the online tools won’t scale for large operations
>
> --
>   Christian Pietsch · http://www.ub.uni-bielefeld.de/~cpietsch/
>   LibTec · Library Technology and Knowledge Management
>   Bielefeld University Library, Bielefeld, Germany
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] The lie of the API

[Ross Singer]

I'm not going to defend API keys, but not all APIs are open or free.  You
need to have *some* way to track usage.

There may be alternative ways to implement that, but you can't just hand
wave away the rather large use case for API keys.

-Ross.


On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Ford  wrote:

> Though I have some quibbles with Seth's post, I think it's worth drawing
> attention to his repeatedly calling out API keys as a very significant
> barrier to use, or at least entry.  Most of the posts here have given
> little attention to the issue API keys present.  I can say that I have
> quite often looked elsewhere or simply stopped pursuing my idea the moment
> I discovered an API key was mandatory.
>
> As for the presumed difficulty with implementing content negotiation (and,
> especially, caching on top), it seems that if you can implement an entire
> system to manage assignment of and access by API key, then I do not
> understand how content negotiation and caching are significantly "harder to
> implement."
>
> In any event, APIs and content negotiation are not mutually exclusive. One
> should be able to use the HTTP URI to access multiple representations of
> the resource without recourse to a custom API.
>
> Yours,
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/29/2013 02:44 PM, Robert Sanderson wrote:
>
>> (posted in the comments on the blog and reposted here for further
>> discussion, if interest)
>>
>>
>> While I couldn't agree more with the post's starting point -- URIs
>> identify
>> (concepts) and use HTTP as your API -- I couldn't disagree more with the
>> "use content negotiation" conclusion.
>>
>> I'm with Dan Cohen in his comment regarding using different URIs for
>> different representations for several reasons below.
>>
>> It's harder to implement Content Negotiation than your own API, because
>> you
>> get to define your own API whereas you have to follow someone else's rules
>> when you implement conneg.  You can't get your own API wrong.  I agree
>> with
>> Ruben that HTTP is better than rolling your own proprietary API, we
>> disagree that conneg is the correct solution.  The choice is between
>> conneg
>> or regular HTTP, not conneg or a proprietary API.
>>
>> Secondly, you need to look at the HTTP headers and parse quite a complex
>> structure to determine what is being requested.  You can't just put a file
>> in the file system, unlike with separate URIs for distinct representations
>> where it just works, instead you need server side processing.  This also
>> makes it much harder to cache the responses, as the cache needs to
>> determine whether or not the representation has changed -- the cache also
>> needs to parse the headers rather than just comparing URI and content.
>>  For
>> large scale systems like DPLA and Europeana, caching is essential for
>> quality of service.
>>
>> How do you find our which formats are supported by conneg? By reading the
>> documentation. Which could just say "add .json on the end". The Vary
>> header
>> tells you that negotiation in the format dimension is possible, just not
>> what to do to actually get anything back. There isn't a way to find this
>> out from HTTP automatically,so now you need to read both the site's docs
>> AND the HTTP docs.  APIs can, on the other hand, do this.  Consider
>> OAI-PMH's ListMetadataFormats and SRU's Explain response.
>>
>> Instead you can have a separate URI for each representation and link them
>> with Link headers, or just a simple rule like add '.json' on the end. No
>> need for complicated content negotiation at all.  Link headers can be
>> added
>> with a simple apache configuration rule, and as they're static are easy to
>> cache. So the server side is easy, and the client side is trivial.
>>   Compared to being difficult at both ends with content negotiation.
>>
>> It can be useful to make statements about the different representations,
>> and especially if you need to annotate the structure or content.  Or share
>> it -- you can't email someone a link that includes the right Accept
>> headers
>> to send -- as in the post, you need to send them a command line like curl
>> with -H.
>>
>> An experiment for fans of content negotiation: Have both .json and 302
>> style conneg from your original URI to that .json file. Advertise both.
>> See
>> how many people do the conneg. If it's non-zero, I'll be extremely
>> surprised.
>>
>> And a challenge: Even with libraries there's still complexity to figuring
>> out how and what to serve. Find me sites that correctly implement * based
>> fallbacks. Or even process q values. I'll bet I can find 10 that do
>> content
>> negotiation wrong, for every 1 that does it correctly.  I'll start:
>> dx.doi.org touts its content negotiation for metadata, yet doesn't
>> implement q values or *s. You have to go to the documentation to figure
>> out
>> what Accept headers it will do string equality tests against.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Seth van Hooland 
>> wrote:
>>
>>

Re: [CODE4LIB] calibr: a simple opening hours calendar

[Ross Singer]

I generally agree that hours have unnecessary complexities, I would also
say that some of that is because libraries (at least, large, research
academic libraries) are fairly complex organisms with *lots* of disparate
services.

I think it's more analogous to a shopping mall: the stores generally follow
the same pattern, but the movie theater has different hours, as does the
food court (and then the Chick-Fil-A diverges from that).  Then there are
office hours and the Sears tire department is different from other
schedules or when Lens Crafters' optometrist is open, etc.

Not to mention holiday hours (and Santa times, etc.).

So this is hardly unique to libraries, or even an edge case, but it is
unusual that we feel the need to consolidate it into a single interface.

But, yes, it would help if we didn't have a million inconsistencies in
similar service areas (again, the stores in the mall are all supposed to
keep the same hours) to make it easier to deal with the outliers.

-Ross.
On Nov 28, 2013 5:54 AM, "BWS Johnson"  wrote:

> Salvete!
>
>   I second the policy suggestions about hours that were stated
> earlier. The simpler hours are kept, the better.
>
>   I found myself in the position of having a Library with crazy hours
> due to budgetary and scheduling constraints. My low tech solution to that
> was to add the hours right on the back of the cards so folks would have
> that data handy. :D
>
> Cheers,
> Brooke
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Code4Lib Conference Registration

[Ross Singer]

I went to the code4lib list
To get my share of abuse

asked about the conf registration
Or any information of use

Now John, you can't always get what you want
No you can't always get what you want

But with a pull request
Or thoughts on https

You get a disturbing image of rainbows shooting from Sean Hannan's mouth

-Ross.
p.s. Mick might need to work on that last line a bit
On Nov 20, 2013 3:52 PM, "John Blair"  wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> As much as I love arguments about https and comparing notes on various
> pet-projects, I wish the website was a little more … put together. This
> list has added about 30-40+ mails per day to my inbox, and I'm only really
> looking for one bit of information.
>
> I might have written "Hotel reservations will be able to be made after you
> register (sometime early-mid Janueary 2014)
> using the information provided in your registration confirmation."
>
> I'm hard to please. ;)
>
> -JLB
>
>
> On Nov 20, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Cynthia Ng  wrote:
>
> > Registration hasn't opened yet. My guess is sometime in January which is
> > when the program will be set. If you're subscribed to the list, it'll be
> > hard to miss!
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 9:45 AM, John Blair  wrote:
> >
> >> Per the website (bolding mine):
> >>
> >> "Finally, the hotel has the capacity to host all of the attendees, and
> >> we've negotiated a rate of $159/night that includes wireless access in
> the
> >> hotel rooms. Hotel reservations will be able to be made after you
> register
> >> using the information provided in your registration confirmation. We
> will
> >> be publishing more details as they become available."
> >>
> >> Where? When? How? Or does registration fall under "…more details…?"
> >>
> >>
> >> -John Blair
> >>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] linked data recipe

[Ross Singer]

I don't know what your definition of "serialization" is, but I don't know
of any where "data model" and "formatted output of a data model" are
synonymous.

RDF is a data model *not* a serialization.

-Ross.


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Ethan Gruber  wrote:

> I see that serialization has a different definition in computer science
> than I thought it did.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Ross Singer 
> wrote:
>
> > That's still not a "serialization".  It's just a similar data model.
> >  Pretty huge difference.
> >
> > -Ross.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ethan Gruber 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure that I agree that RDF is not a serialization.  It really
> > > depends on the context of the system and intended use of the linked
> data.
> > > For example, TEI is designed with a specific purpose which cannot be
> > > replicated in RDF (at least, not very easily at all), but deriving RDF
> > from
> > > highly-linked TEI to put into an endpoint can open doors to queries
> which
> > > are otherwise impossible to make on the data.  This certainly requires
> > some
> > > rethinking of the way texts interact.  But perhaps it may be best to
> say
> > > that RDF *can* (but not necessarily) be a derivation, rather than
> > > serialization, of some larger, more complex canonical data model.
> > >
> > > Ethan
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Aaron Rubinstein <
> > > arubi...@library.umass.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here, Karen. I would just
> add,
> > or
> > > > maybe reassure, that this does not necessarily require rethinking
> your
> > > > existing metadata but how to translate that existing metadata into a
> > > linked
> > > > data environment. Though this might seem like a pain, in many cases
> it
> > > will
> > > > actually inspire you to go back and improve/increase the value of
> that
> > > > existing metadata.
> > > >
> > > > This is definitely looking awesome, Eric!
> > > >
> > > > Aaron
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Eric, I think this skips a step - which is the design step in which
> > you
> > > > create a domain model that uses linked data as its basis. RDF is not
> a
> > > > serialization; it actually may require you to re-think the basic
> > > structure
> > > > of your metadata. The reason for that is that it provides
> capabilities
> > > that
> > > > record-based data models do not. Rather than starting with current
> > > > metadata, you need to take a step back and ask: what does my
> > information
> > > > world look like as linked data?
> > > > >
> > > > > I repeat: RDF is NOT A SERIALIZATION.
> > > > >
> > > > > kc
> > > > >
> > > > > On 11/19/13 5:04 AM, Eric Lease Morgan wrote:
> > > > >> I believe participating in the Semantic Web and providing content
> > via
> > > > the principles of linked data is not "rocket surgery", especially for
> > > > cultural heritage institutions -- libraries, archives, and museums.
> > Here
> > > is
> > > > a simple recipe for their participation:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   1. use existing metadata standards (MARC, EAD, etc.) to describe
> > > > >>  collections
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   2. use any number of existing tools to convert the metadata to
> > > > >>  HTML, and save the HTML on a Web server
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   3. use any number of existing tools to convert the metadata to
> > > > >>  RDF/XML (or some other "serialization" of RDF), and save the
> > > > >>  RDF/XML on a Web server
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   4. rest, congratulate yourself, and share your experience with
> > > > >>  others in your domain
> > > > >>
> > > > >>   5. after the first time though, go back to Step #1, but this
> time
> > > > >>  work with other people inside your domain making sure you use
> > as
> > > > 

Re: [CODE4LIB] linked data recipe

[Ross Singer]

That's still not a "serialization".  It's just a similar data model.
 Pretty huge difference.

-Ross.


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Ethan Gruber  wrote:

> I'm not sure that I agree that RDF is not a serialization.  It really
> depends on the context of the system and intended use of the linked data.
> For example, TEI is designed with a specific purpose which cannot be
> replicated in RDF (at least, not very easily at all), but deriving RDF from
> highly-linked TEI to put into an endpoint can open doors to queries which
> are otherwise impossible to make on the data.  This certainly requires some
> rethinking of the way texts interact.  But perhaps it may be best to say
> that RDF *can* (but not necessarily) be a derivation, rather than
> serialization, of some larger, more complex canonical data model.
>
> Ethan
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Aaron Rubinstein <
> arubi...@library.umass.edu> wrote:
>
> > I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here, Karen. I would just add, or
> > maybe reassure, that this does not necessarily require rethinking your
> > existing metadata but how to translate that existing metadata into a
> linked
> > data environment. Though this might seem like a pain, in many cases it
> will
> > actually inspire you to go back and improve/increase the value of that
> > existing metadata.
> >
> > This is definitely looking awesome, Eric!
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:41 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:
> >
> > > Eric, I think this skips a step - which is the design step in which you
> > create a domain model that uses linked data as its basis. RDF is not a
> > serialization; it actually may require you to re-think the basic
> structure
> > of your metadata. The reason for that is that it provides capabilities
> that
> > record-based data models do not. Rather than starting with current
> > metadata, you need to take a step back and ask: what does my information
> > world look like as linked data?
> > >
> > > I repeat: RDF is NOT A SERIALIZATION.
> > >
> > > kc
> > >
> > > On 11/19/13 5:04 AM, Eric Lease Morgan wrote:
> > >> I believe participating in the Semantic Web and providing content via
> > the principles of linked data is not "rocket surgery", especially for
> > cultural heritage institutions -- libraries, archives, and museums. Here
> is
> > a simple recipe for their participation:
> > >>
> > >>   1. use existing metadata standards (MARC, EAD, etc.) to describe
> > >>  collections
> > >>
> > >>   2. use any number of existing tools to convert the metadata to
> > >>  HTML, and save the HTML on a Web server
> > >>
> > >>   3. use any number of existing tools to convert the metadata to
> > >>  RDF/XML (or some other "serialization" of RDF), and save the
> > >>  RDF/XML on a Web server
> > >>
> > >>   4. rest, congratulate yourself, and share your experience with
> > >>  others in your domain
> > >>
> > >>   5. after the first time though, go back to Step #1, but this time
> > >>  work with other people inside your domain making sure you use as
> > >>  many of the same URIs as possible
> > >>
> > >>   6. after the second time through, go back to Step #1, but this
> > >>  time supplement access to your linked data with a triple store,
> > >>  thus supporting search
> > >>
> > >>   7. after the third time through, go back to Step #1, but this
> > >>  time use any number of existing tools to expose the content in
> > >>  your other information systems (relational databases, OAI-PMH
> > >>  data repositories, etc.)
> > >>
> > >>   8. for dessert, cogitate ways to exploit the linked data in your
> > >>  domain to discover new and additional relationships between URIs,
> > >>  and thus make the Semantic Web more of a reality
> > >>
> > >> What do you think?
> > >>
> > >> I am in the process of writing a guidebook on the topic of linked data
> > and archives. In the guidebook I will elaborate on this recipe and
> provide
> > instructions for its implementation. [1]
> > >>
> > >> [1] guidebook - http://sites.tufts.edu/liam/
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Eric Lease Morgan
> > >> University of Notre Dame
> > >
> > > --
> > > Karen Coyle
> > > kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
> > > m: 1-510-435-8234
> > > skype: kcoylenet
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Voting for Code4Lib 2014 Prepared Talks begins today!

[Ross Singer]

Apparently it just required us crashing the Dreamhost MySQL server it's
running off of.

-Ross.


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Justin Coyne
wrote:

> The server seems unresponsive.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Trevor Thornton  >wrote:
>
> > The Code4Lib 2014 Program Committee is happy to announce that voting is
> now
> > open for prepared talks.
> >
> > To vote, visit http://vote.code4lib.org/election/28, review the
> proposals,
> > and assign points to those presentations you would like to see on the
> > program this year.
> >
> > You will need to log in with your code4lib.org username and password in
> > order to vote. If you have any issues with your account, please contact
> > Ryan Wick at ryanw...@gmail.com.
> >
> > *Voting will end on Friday, December 6, 2013 at 11:59:59 PM PDT.*
> >
> > The 10 proposals with the most votes will be guaranteed a slot at the
> > conference. Additional presentations will be selected by the Program
> > Committee in an effort to ensure diversity in program content. Community
> > votes will still weigh heavily in these decisions.
> >
> > For more information about Code4Lib 2014, visit
> > http://code4lib.org/conference/2014/.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Trevor Thornton
> > Senior Applications Developer, NYPL Labs
> > The New York Public Library
> > phone: 212-621-0287
> > email: trevorthorn...@nypl.org
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf triplestores

[Ross Singer]

I've used Fuseki a lot and really like it, although configuration for
things like LARQ (full text indexing) historically has been a little
underdocumented (and it can be a little difficult to understand what
component is in charge of what task).

4-Store is super simple to get up and running with, as well, but I haven't
used it in production for anything.

-Ross.


On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Stefano Bargioni  wrote:

> My +1 for Joseki.
> sb
>
> On 11/nov/2013, at 06.12, Eric Lease Morgan wrote:
>
> > What is your favorite RDF triplestore?
> >
> > I am able to convert numerous library-related metadata formats into
> RDF/XML. In a minimal way, I can then contribute to the Semantic Web by
> simply putting the resulting files on an HTTP file system. But if I were to
> import my RDF/XML into a triplestore, then I could do a lot more. Jena
> seems like a good option. So does Openlink Virtuoso.
> >
> > What experience do y'all have with these tools, and do you know how to
> import RDF/XML into them?
> >
> > --
> > Eric Lease Morgan
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Canadian WordPress Hosting

[Ross Singer]

I assume it's not about speed, but about the PATRIOT Act.

For example, we don't host any of our customer data in the US (and aren't
allowed to).

-Ross.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:17 PM, Riley Childs  wrote:

> I take that back, did a bit more research, I think there are plenty of
> options. But I have to ask, why only in Canada, a transit provider in the
> us willbe just as fast as in Canada
>
> Riley Childs
> Library Director and IT Admin
> Junior
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> P: 704-497-2086 (Anytime)
> P: 704-537-0331 x101 (M-F 7:30am-3pm ET)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse mistakes
>
> > On Nov 7, 2013, at 9:09 PM, Nick Ruest  wrote:
> >
> > Cynthia: If you just need a Canadian server, not a Canadian corporation,
> check out Site5[1]. Not sure if they are exactly what you are looking for,
> but they have the standard one-click install ControlPanel stuff. Not sure
> about the automated backup options you're looking for. I've been using them
> for a few years, and have zero complaints.
> >
> > Riley: Really? Why would we be hard pressed to find that in Canada?
> >
> > -nruest
> >
> > [1] http://www.site5.com/p/canadian-web-hosting/
> >
> >> On 13-11-07 08:38 PM, Riley Childs wrote:
> >> Why in Canada? You will be hard pressed to find that
> >>
> >> Riley Childs
> >> Library Director and IT Admin
> >> Junior
> >> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> >> P: 704-497-2086 (Anytime)
> >> P: 704-537-0331 x101 (M-F 7:30am-3pm ET)
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> Please excuse mistakes
> >>
> >>> On Nov 7, 2013, at 4:48 PM, Cynthia Ng  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Kevin. Servers need to be in Canada, preferably paid in
> Canadian but
> >>> I don't think that's necessary. I'll looking your recommendation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Kevin Hawkins <
> >>> kevin.s.hawk...@ultraslavonic.info> wrote:
> >>>
>  Does the entity you pay need to be in Canada (that is, accept payment
> in
>  Canadian dollars), or do the servers need to be there?  Or both?
> 
>  I use http://www.csoft.net/ for my personal hosting.  Their business
>  office is in Canada, but I'm unclear on where their servers are.
>  Their
>  documentation is written assuming you have strong technical skills,
> but
>  they respond quickly (and tersely) whenever I've needed help to
> address
>  gaps in my skills.  They have some specific instructions for
> installation
>  of WordPress once you've connected to them through SSH:
> 
>  http://www.csoft.net/docs/wordpress.html.en
> 
>  They also have documentation in French in case that's helpful.
> 
>  --Kevin
> 
> 
> > On 2:59 PM, Cynthia Ng wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > Apologies for cross-posting, but code4lib is much more active, and
> has
> > more
> > Canadians that I've seen.
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for a WordPress hosting
> > solution? And yes, it needs to be in Canada. I can do most of my own
> > dev-type work, so really it just needs to be setup to run WordPress
> > (preferably with 1-click install), and most of all, reliable,
> hopefully
> > with good customer service for when we need to contact the company.
> >
> > Okay, also preferable is that they do daily backups for us and has
> > excellent security (considering it's WordPress).
> >
> > Too many hosting solutions include email and a bunch of other stuff,
> and I
> > need it only for WordPress and nothing else.
> >
> > A name, plus at least 1-2 reasons on the recommendation would be
> great!
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Cynthia
> >
> > --
> > -nruest
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] We should use HTTPS on code4lib.org

[Ross Singer]

OK! Uncle! Just let's do something! I don't care *that* much about it!

-Ross.
On Nov 6, 2013 11:34 PM, "Chad Fennell"  wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:
>
> > I guess I just don't see why http and https can't coexist.
> >
> >
> They can definitely coexist, but there is a corresponding maintenance cost
> and a slightly higher risk profile (e.g. session hijacking is still
> possible in a variety of mixed http/https configurations). I noticed a a
> pretty good, if a bit dated, run-down of the tradeoffs for various secure
> setups in Drupal
>
> http://drupalscout.com/knowledge-base/drupal-and-ssl-multiple-recipes-possible-solutions-https
> .
> Even if the solutions have somewhat changed, it does get at the idea of
> what some of the tradeoffs are between security, usability and maintenance.
>
> Just today, I noticed a security alert (https://drupal.org/node/2129381)
> for the Drupal 6 Secure Pages module where theoretically secured pages and
> forms could be transmitted in the clear. This is the module you'd most
> likely use to achieve a mixed http/https site in Drupal.
>
> I have personally tended to just put everything behind https because of the
> added work/modules/maintenance associated to running it along side of http
> (in Drupal, specifically), but I am a lazy person with access to free certs
> and ferncer servers.
>
> HTH
> --
> Chad Fennell
> Web Developer
> University of Minnesota Libraries
> (612) 626-4186
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] We should use HTTPS on code4lib.org

[Ross Singer]

I guess I just don't see why http and https can't coexist.

-Ross.
On Nov 6, 2013 9:39 PM, "Cary Gordon"  wrote:

> This conversation is heading into the "draining the swamp" category.
>
> Bill Denton started this thread with the suggestion that we use HTTPS
> everywhere. He did not make a specific case for it. I am just guessing that
> an argument for going that route would include security.
>
> Regardless of whether this is a good idea, or whether there is a
> compelling reason for doing it, it seems to me that the possibility of its
> making it difficult for older scraping tools to scrape the site does not
> seem like a compelling reason not to do it.
>
> The cost issue, on the other hand, would be a more compelling
> consideration.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cary
>
> On Nov 6, 2013, at 6:17 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:
>
> > How is security getting thrown under the bus?
> >
> > -Ross.
> >
> > On Wednesday, November 6, 2013, Cary Gordon wrote:
> >
> >> It sounds like we are willing to throw security under the bus for an
> edge
> >> case, although I am sure that I am missing some subtlety
> >>
> >> Cary
> >>
> >> On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Ross Singer  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM, William Denton  >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> (Question:  Why does HTTPS complicate screen-scraping?  Every decent
> >> tool
> >>>> and library supports HTTPS, doesn't it?)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Birkin asked me this same question, and I realized I should clarify
> what
> >> I
> >>> meant.  I was mostly referring to existing screen scrapers/existing web
> >>> sites.  If you redirect every request from http to https, this will
> >>> probably break things.  I think the Open Library example that Karen
> >>> mentioned is a good case study.
> >>>
> >>> And it's pretty different for a library or tool to support HTTPS and a
> >>> specific app to be expecting it.  If you follow the thread around that
> OL
> >>> change, it appears there are issues with Java (as one example)
> >> arbitrarily
> >>> consuming HTTPS (from what I understand, you need to have the cert
> >>> locally?), but I don't know enough about it to say for certain.  I
> think
> >>> there would also probably be potential issues around mashups (AJAX, for
> >>> example), but seeing as code4lib.org doesn't support CORS, not really
> a
> >>> current issue.  Does apply more generally to your question about
> library
> >>> websites at large, though.
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I agree with you that the option for both should be there.  I'm
> >> not
> >>> just not convinced that HTTPS-all-the-time is necessary for all web use
> >>> cases.
> >>>
> >>> -Ross.
> >>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] We should use HTTPS on code4lib.org

[Ross Singer]

How is security getting thrown under the bus?

-Ross.

On Wednesday, November 6, 2013, Cary Gordon wrote:

> It sounds like we are willing to throw security under the bus for an edge
> case, although I am sure that I am missing some subtlety
>
> Cary
>
> On Nov 5, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Ross Singer >
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM, William Denton 
> > >
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> (Question:  Why does HTTPS complicate screen-scraping?  Every decent
> tool
> >> and library supports HTTPS, doesn't it?)
> >>
> >
> > Birkin asked me this same question, and I realized I should clarify what
> I
> > meant.  I was mostly referring to existing screen scrapers/existing web
> > sites.  If you redirect every request from http to https, this will
> > probably break things.  I think the Open Library example that Karen
> > mentioned is a good case study.
> >
> > And it's pretty different for a library or tool to support HTTPS and a
> > specific app to be expecting it.  If you follow the thread around that OL
> > change, it appears there are issues with Java (as one example)
> arbitrarily
> > consuming HTTPS (from what I understand, you need to have the cert
> > locally?), but I don't know enough about it to say for certain.  I think
> > there would also probably be potential issues around mashups (AJAX, for
> > example), but seeing as code4lib.org doesn't support CORS, not really a
> > current issue.  Does apply more generally to your question about library
> > websites at large, though.
> >
> > Anyway, I agree with you that the option for both should be there.  I'm
> not
> > just not convinced that HTTPS-all-the-time is necessary for all web use
> > cases.
> >
> > -Ross.
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

Hugh, I'm skeptical of this in a usable application or interface.

Applications have constraints.  There are predicates you care about, there
are values you display in specific ways.  There are expectations, based on
the domain, in the data that are either driven by the interface or the
needs of the consumers.

I have yet to see an example of "arbitrary and unexpected data" exposed in
an application that people actually use.

-Ross.


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Hugh Cayless  wrote:

> The answer is purely because the RDF data model and the technology around
> it looks like it would almost do what we need it to.
>
> I do not, and cannot, assume a closed world. The open world assumption is
> one of the attractive things about RDF, in fact :-)
>
> Hugh
>
> On Nov 6, 2013, at 11:11 , Ross Singer  wrote:
>
> > My question for you, however, is why are you using a triple store for
> this?
> > That is, why bother with the broad and general model in what I assume is
> a
> > closed world assumption in your application?
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

Hey Karen,

It's purely anecdotal (albeit anecdotes borne from working at a company
that offered, and has since abandoned, a sparql-based triple store
service), but I just don't see the interest in arbitrary SPARQL queries
against remote datasets that I do against linking to (and grabbing) known
items.  I think there are multiple reasons for this:

1) Unless you're already familiar with the dataset behind the SPARQL
endpoint, where do you even start with constructing useful queries?
2) SPARQL as a query language is a combination of being too powerful and
completely useless in practice: query timeouts are commonplace, endpoints
don't support all of 1.1, etc.  And, going back to point #1, it's hard to
know how to optimize your queries unless you are already pretty familiar
with the data
3) SPARQL is a flawed "API interface" from the get-go (IMHO) for the same
reason we don't offer a public SQL interface to our RDBMSes

Which isn't to say it doesn't have its uses or applications.

I just think that in most cases domain/service-specific APIs (be they
RESTful, based on the Linked Data API [0], whatever) will likely be favored
over generic SPARQL endpoints.  Are n+1 different APIs ideal?  I am pretty
sure the answer is "no", but that's the future I foresee, personally.

-Ross.
0. https://code.google.com/p/linked-data-api/wiki/Specification


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:28 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:

> Ross, I agree with your statement that data doesn't have to be "RDF all
> the way down", etc. But I'd like to hear more about why you think SPARQL
> availability has less value, and if you see an alternative to SPARQL for
> querying.
>
> kc
>
>
>
> On 11/6/13 8:11 AM, Ross Singer wrote:
>
>> Hugh, I don't think you're in the weeds with your question (and, while I
>> think that named graphs can provide a solution to your particular problem,
>> that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't raise more questions or
>> potentially more frustrations down the line - like any new power, it can
>> be
>> used for good or evil and the difference might not be obvious at first).
>>
>> My question for you, however, is why are you using a triple store for
>> this?
>>   That is, why bother with the broad and general model in what I assume
>> is a
>> closed world assumption in your application?
>>
>> We don't generally use XML databases (Marklogic being a notable
>> exception),
>> or MARC databases, or -specific
>> databases because usually transmission formats are designed to account for
>> lots and lots of variations and maximum flexibility, which generally is
>> the
>> opposite of the modeling that goes into a specific app.
>>
>> I think there's a world of difference between modeling your data so it can
>> be represented in RDF (and, possibly, available via SPARQL, but I think
>> there is *far* less value there) and committing to RDF all the way down.
>>   RDF is a generalization so multiple parties can agree on what data
>> means,
>> but I would have a hard time swallowing the argument that domain-specific
>> data must be RDF-native.
>>
>> -Ross.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Hugh Cayless 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Does that work right down to the level of the individual triple though?
>>> If
>>> a large percentage of my triples are each in their own individual graphs,
>>> won't that be chaos? I really don't know the answer, it's not a
>>> rhetorical
>>> question!
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>> On Nov 6, 2013, at 10:40 , Robert Sanderson  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Named Graphs are the way to solve the issue you bring up in that post,
>>>> in
>>>> my opinion.  You mint an identifier for the graph, and associate the
>>>> provenance and other information with that.  This then gets ingested as
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> 4th URI into a quad store, so you don't lose the provenance information.
>>>>
>>>> In JSON-LD:
>>>> {
>>>>   "@id" : "uri-for-graph",
>>>>   "dcterms:creator" : "uri-for-hugh",
>>>>   "@graph" : [
>>>>// ... triples go here ...
>>>>   ]
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Hugh Cayless 
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wrote about this a few months back at
>>>>>
>>>>>  http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/2013/07/27/the-
>>> trouble-with-triples/
>>>
>>>> I'd be very interested to hear what the smart folks here think!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugh
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 5, 2013, at 18:28 , Alexander Johannesen <
>>>>> alexander.johanne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  But the
>>>>>> question to every piece of meta data is *authority*, which is the part
>>>>>> of RDF that sucks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
> --
> Karen Coyle
> kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
> m: 1-510-435-8234
> skype: kcoylenet
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

Hugh, I don't think you're in the weeds with your question (and, while I
think that named graphs can provide a solution to your particular problem,
that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't raise more questions or
potentially more frustrations down the line - like any new power, it can be
used for good or evil and the difference might not be obvious at first).

My question for you, however, is why are you using a triple store for this?
 That is, why bother with the broad and general model in what I assume is a
closed world assumption in your application?

We don't generally use XML databases (Marklogic being a notable exception),
or MARC databases, or -specific
databases because usually transmission formats are designed to account for
lots and lots of variations and maximum flexibility, which generally is the
opposite of the modeling that goes into a specific app.

I think there's a world of difference between modeling your data so it can
be represented in RDF (and, possibly, available via SPARQL, but I think
there is *far* less value there) and committing to RDF all the way down.
 RDF is a generalization so multiple parties can agree on what data means,
but I would have a hard time swallowing the argument that domain-specific
data must be RDF-native.

-Ross.


On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Hugh Cayless  wrote:

> Does that work right down to the level of the individual triple though? If
> a large percentage of my triples are each in their own individual graphs,
> won't that be chaos? I really don't know the answer, it's not a rhetorical
> question!
>
> Hugh
>
> On Nov 6, 2013, at 10:40 , Robert Sanderson  wrote:
>
> > Named Graphs are the way to solve the issue you bring up in that post, in
> > my opinion.  You mint an identifier for the graph, and associate the
> > provenance and other information with that.  This then gets ingested as
> the
> > 4th URI into a quad store, so you don't lose the provenance information.
> >
> > In JSON-LD:
> > {
> >  "@id" : "uri-for-graph",
> >  "dcterms:creator" : "uri-for-hugh",
> >  "@graph" : [
> >   // ... triples go here ...
> >  ]
> > }
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 7:42 AM, Hugh Cayless 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I wrote about this a few months back at
> >>
> http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/2013/07/27/the-trouble-with-triples/
> >>
> >> I'd be very interested to hear what the smart folks here think!
> >>
> >> Hugh
> >>
> >> On Nov 5, 2013, at 18:28 , Alexander Johannesen <
> >> alexander.johanne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> But the
> >>> question to every piece of meta data is *authority*, which is the part
> >>> of RDF that sucks.
> >>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Ed Summers  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Eric Lease Morgan  wrote:
> > This is hard. The Semantic Web (and RDF) attempt at codifying knowledge
> using a strict syntax, specifically a strict syntax of triples. It is very
> difficult for humans to articulate knowledge, let alone codifying it. How
> realistic is the idea of the Semantic Web? I wonder this not because I
> don’t think the technology can handle the problem. I say this because I
> think people can’t (or have great difficulty) succinctly articulating
> knowledge. Or maybe knowledge does not fit into triples?
>
> I think you're right Eric. I don't think knowledge can be encoded
> completely in triples, any more than it can be encoded completely in
> finding aids or books.
>

Or... anything, honestly.  We're humans. Our understanding and perception
of the universe changes daily.  I don't think it's unreasonable to accept
that any description of the universe, input by a human, will reflect the
fundamental reality that was was encoded might be wrong.  I don't really
buy the argument that RDF is somehow less capable of "succinctly
articulating knowledge" compared to anything else.  "All models are wrong.
 Some are useful."

>
> One thing that I (naively) wasn't fully aware of when I started
> dabbling the Semantic Web and Linked Data is how much the technology
> is entangled with debates about the philosophy of language. These
> debates play out in a variety of ways, but most notably in
> disagreements about the nature of a resource (httpRange-14) in Web
> Architecture. Shameless plug: Dorothea Salo and I tried to write about
> how some of this impacts the domain of the library/archive [1].
>
> OTOH, schema.org doesn't concern itself at all with this dichotomy
(information vs. non-information resource) and I think that most (sane,
pragmatic) practitioners would consider that "linked data", as well.  Given
the fact that schema.org is so easily mapped to RDF, I think this argument
is going to be so polluted (if it isn't already) that it will eventually
have to evolve to a far less academic position.

One of the strengths of RDF is its notion of a data model that is
> behind the various serializations (xml, ntriples, json, n3, turtle,
> etc). I'm with Ross though: I find it much to read rdf as turtle or
> json-ld than it is rdf/xml.
>
> This is definitely where RDF outclasses almost every alternative*, because
each serialization (besides RDF/XML) works extremely well for specific
purposes:

Turtle is great for writing RDF (either to humans or computers) and being
able to understand what is being modeled.

n-triples/quads is great for sharing data in bulk.

json-ld is ideal for API responses, since the consumer doesn't have to know
anything about RDF to have a useful data object, but if they do, all the
better.

-Ross.
* Unless you're writing a parser, then having a kajillion serializations
seriously sucks.

Re: [CODE4LIB] We should use HTTPS on code4lib.org

[Ross Singer]

On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM, William Denton  wrote:

>
> (Question:  Why does HTTPS complicate screen-scraping?  Every decent tool
> and library supports HTTPS, doesn't it?)
>

Birkin asked me this same question, and I realized I should clarify what I
meant.  I was mostly referring to existing screen scrapers/existing web
sites.  If you redirect every request from http to https, this will
probably break things.  I think the Open Library example that Karen
mentioned is a good case study.

And it's pretty different for a library or tool to support HTTPS and a
specific app to be expecting it.  If you follow the thread around that OL
change, it appears there are issues with Java (as one example) arbitrarily
consuming HTTPS (from what I understand, you need to have the cert
locally?), but I don't know enough about it to say for certain.  I think
there would also probably be potential issues around mashups (AJAX, for
example), but seeing as code4lib.org doesn't support CORS, not really a
current issue.  Does apply more generally to your question about library
websites at large, though.

Anyway, I agree with you that the option for both should be there.  I'm not
just not convinced that HTTPS-all-the-time is necessary for all web use
cases.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] We should use HTTPS on code4lib.org

[Ross Singer]

While I'm not opposed to providing code4lib.org via HTTPS, I don't think
it's as simple as "let's just do it!".  Who will be responsible for making
sure the cert is up to date?  Who will pay for certs (if we don't go with
startcom)?

Also, forcing all traffic to HTTPS unnecessarily complicates some things,
e.g. screen scrapers (and before you say, "well, screen scraping sucks,
anyway!", I think it's not a stretch to say that "microdata parser" falls
under "screen scraping".  Or RDFa.). I feel a little uncomfortable with
adding the overhead HTTPS brings wholesale, when there are tools (like you
mention, HTTPS Everywhere) for those that want HTTPS.  It feels a little
like the xkcd "server attention span" comic to me [0].

-Ross.

0. http://xkcd.com/869/


On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Ethan Gruber  wrote:

> NSA broke it already
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:42 PM, William Denton  wrote:
>
> > I think it's time we made everything on code4lib.org use HTTPS by
> default
> > and redirect people to HTTPS from HTTP when needed.  (Right now there's
> an
> > outdated self-signed SSL certificate on the site, so someone took a stab
> at
> > this earlier, but it's time to do it right.)
> >
> > StartCom gives free SSL certs [0], and there are lots of places that sell
> > them for prices that seem to run over $100 per year (which seems
> ridiculous
> > to me, but maybe there's a good reason).
> >
> > I don't know which is the best way to get a cert for a site like this,
> but
> > if people agree this is the right thing to do, perhaps someone with some
> > expertise could work with the Oregon State hosts?
> >
> > More broadly, I think everyone should be using HTTPS everywhere (and
> HTTPS
> > Everywhere, the browser extension).  Are any of you implementing HTTPS on
> > your institution's sites, and moving to it as default?  It's one of those
> > slightly finicky things that on the surface isn't necessary (why bother
> > with a library's opening hours or address?) but deeper down is, because
> > everyone should be able to browse the web without being monitored.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > [0] https://cert.startcom.org/
> >
> > --
> > William Denton
> > Toronto, Canada
> > http://www.miskatonic.org/
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

Eric,

I can't help but think that part of your problem is that you're using
RDF/XML, which definitely makes it harder to understand and visualize the
data model.

It might help if you switched to an RDF native serialization, like Turtle,
which definitely helps with regards to "seeing" RDF.

-Ross.
On Nov 4, 2013 6:29 AM, "Ross Singer"  wrote:

> And yet for the last 50 years they've been creating MARC?
>
> For the last 20, they've been making EAD, TEI, etc?
>
> As with any of these, there is an expectation that end users will not be
> hand rolling machine readable serializations, but inputting into
> interfaces.
>
> That is not to say there aren't headaches with RDF (there is no assumption
> of order of triples, for example), but associating properties with entity
> in which they actually belong, I would argue, is its real strength.
>
> -Ross.
> On Nov 3, 2013 10:30 PM, "Eric Lease Morgan"  wrote:
>
>> On Nov 3, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Robert Sanderson  wrote:
>>
>> > And it's not very hard given the right mindset -- its just a fully
>> expanded
>> > relational database, where the identifiers are URIs.  Yes, it's not 1st
>> > year computer science, but it is 2nd or 3rd year rather than post
>> graduate.
>>
>> Okay, granted, but how many people do we know who can draw an entity
>> relationship diagram? In other words, how many people can represent
>> knowledge as a relational database? Very few people in Library Land are
>> able to get past flat files, let alone relational databases. Yet we are
>> hoping to build the Semantic Web where everybody can contribute. I think
>> this is a challenge.
>>
>> Don’t get me wrong. I think this is a good thing to give a whirl, but I
>> think it is hard.
>>
>> —
>> ELM
>>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] rdf serialization

[Ross Singer]

And yet for the last 50 years they've been creating MARC?

For the last 20, they've been making EAD, TEI, etc?

As with any of these, there is an expectation that end users will not be
hand rolling machine readable serializations, but inputting into
interfaces.

That is not to say there aren't headaches with RDF (there is no assumption
of order of triples, for example), but associating properties with entity
in which they actually belong, I would argue, is its real strength.

-Ross.
On Nov 3, 2013 10:30 PM, "Eric Lease Morgan"  wrote:

> On Nov 3, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Robert Sanderson  wrote:
>
> > And it's not very hard given the right mindset -- its just a fully
> expanded
> > relational database, where the identifiers are URIs.  Yes, it's not 1st
> > year computer science, but it is 2nd or 3rd year rather than post
> graduate.
>
> Okay, granted, but how many people do we know who can draw an entity
> relationship diagram? In other words, how many people can represent
> knowledge as a relational database? Very few people in Library Land are
> able to get past flat files, let alone relational databases. Yet we are
> hoping to build the Semantic Web where everybody can contribute. I think
> this is a challenge.
>
> Don’t get me wrong. I think this is a good thing to give a whirl, but I
> think it is hard.
>
> —
> ELM
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Ruby on Windows

[Ross Singer]

If you absolutely must have a Windows development environment, you may want
to consider a JVM-based scripting language, like Groovy or JRuby. All the
cross-platform advantages, none of the woe. Or, not as much, at
least (there's always a modicum of woe with anything you decide on).

-Ross.

On Tuesday, October 1, 2013, Joshua Welker wrote:

> I'm using Windows 7 x64 SP1. I am using the most recent RubyInstaller
> (2.0.0-p247 x64) and DevKit (DevKit-mingw64-64-4.7.2-2013022-1432-sfx).
>
> That's disappointing to hear that most folks use Ruby exclusively in *nix
> environments. That really limits its utility for me. I am trying Ruby
> because dealing with HTTP in Java is a huge pain, and I was having
> difficulties setting up a Python environment in Windows, too (go figure).
>
> Josh Welker
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU ]
> On Behalf Of
> David Mayo
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 3:44 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Ruby on Windows
>
> DevKit is a MingW/MSYS wrapper for Windows Ruby development.  It might not
> be finding it, but he does have a C dev environment.
>
> I know you cut them out earlier, but would you mind sending some of the C
> Header Blather our way?  It's probably got some clues as to what's going
> on.
>
> Also - which versions of Windows, RubyInstaller, and DevKit are you using?
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Ross Singer 
> >
> wrote:
>
> > It's probably also possible to get these working within Cygwin.
> > Assuming the libraries you need to compile against are available in
> > Cygwin, of course.
> >
> > -Ross.
> >
> > On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:28 PM, "Michael J. Giarlo" <
> > leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu > wrote:
> >
> > > Our Windows-based devs all do their Ruby work on Ubuntu and Fedora
> > > VMs, FWIW.
> > >
> > > -Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Justin Coyne
> > >
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> If you see something about C-extensions, it's because the library
> > >> is not written in pure Ruby, it is a wrapper around a library written
> in C.
> >  Your
> > >> system may not have the C compiler or some of the libraries needed
> > >> to compile or link the extension.
> > >>
> > >> Justin Coyne
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Joshua Welker 
> > >> 
> >
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I am attempting to write my first small Ruby app, but I am running
> > >>> into major problems just getting off the ground developing in
> > >>> Windows. I downloaded the most recent Ruby 2.0 package from
> > >>> RubyInstaller. Then I installed DevKit so I could use gems. After
> > >>> some fiddling, I was
> > finally
> > >>> able to install some gems.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Some.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> For any given gem I try to install, there's about a 25% chance
> > >>> that I
> > get
> > >>> this byzantine error:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
> > >>>
> > >>> [.a whole bunch of gibberish about C headers and so forth.]
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> In particular, I am trying to install the Blather XMPP client. I
> > >>> am
> > >> tempted
> > >>> to just give up and develop on Linux, but I am wanting to deploy
> > >>> this script to Windows machines and figure I might run into
> > >>> problems if I
> > >> don't
> > >>> develop in Windows. I have Googled the heck out of this issue and
> > >>> can't find anything that is similar to my case (the solutions on
> > >>> the RubyInstaller Github wiki did not work). Do any of you Ruby
> > >>> people know
> > >> why
> > >>> I might be having this error so frequently in my Windows
> environment?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Josh Welker
> > >>>
> > >>> Information Technology Librarian
> > >>>
> > >>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
> > >>>
> > >>> University of Central Missouri
> > >>>
> > >>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
> > >>>
> > >>> JCKL 2260
> > >>>
> > >>> 660.543.8022
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Ruby on Windows

[Ross Singer]

It's probably also possible to get these working within Cygwin.  Assuming the 
libraries you need to compile against are available in Cygwin, of course.

-Ross.

On Oct 1, 2013, at 4:28 PM, "Michael J. Giarlo"  
wrote:

> Our Windows-based devs all do their Ruby work on Ubuntu and Fedora VMs,
> FWIW.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Justin Coyne 
> wrote:
> 
>> If you see something about C-extensions, it's because the library is not
>> written in pure Ruby, it is a wrapper around a library written in C.  Your
>> system may not have the C compiler or some of the libraries needed to
>> compile or link the extension.
>> 
>> Justin Coyne
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Joshua Welker  wrote:
>> 
>>> I am attempting to write my first small Ruby app, but I am running into
>>> major problems just getting off the ground developing in Windows. I
>>> downloaded the most recent Ruby 2.0 package from RubyInstaller. Then I
>>> installed DevKit so I could use gems. After some fiddling, I was finally
>>> able to install some gems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Some.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For any given gem I try to install, there’s about a 25% chance that I get
>>> this byzantine error:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ERROR: Failed to build gem native extension.
>>> 
>>> […a whole bunch of gibberish about C headers and so forth…]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In particular, I am trying to install the Blather XMPP client. I am
>> tempted
>>> to just give up and develop on Linux, but I am wanting to deploy this
>>> script to Windows machines and figure I might run into problems if I
>> don’t
>>> develop in Windows. I have Googled the heck out of this issue and can’t
>>> find anything that is similar to my case (the solutions on the
>>> RubyInstaller Github wiki did not work). Do any of you Ruby people know
>> why
>>> I might be having this error so frequently in my Windows environment?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Josh Welker
>>> 
>>> Information Technology Librarian
>>> 
>>> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
>>> 
>>> University of Central Missouri
>>> 
>>> Warrensburg, MO 64093
>>> 
>>> JCKL 2260
>>> 
>>> 660.543.8022
>>> 
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Good MARC PHP Libraries,

[Ross Singer]

+1.  Although, I confess, this is pretty rich coming from me and Bill, who 
co-maintain ruby-marc, which has also never made a 1.0 release (although we 
have managed to get to 0.7.1 in a mere 8 years).

-Ross.

On Sep 26, 2013, at 9:23 AM, Bill Dueber  wrote:

> Given that File_MARC has been around since, what, the late 1950's, why
> don't you just slap a 1.0 on it? It's not like anyone isn't using it
> because they're waiting for the API to stabilize; we're all using it
> regardless.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:01 AM, Dan Scott  wrote:
> 
>> I hear the maintainer of File_MARC is pretty responsive to questions
>> and bug reports. This list might be a good place to raise questions
>> about usage; others may be interested.
>> 
>> Was the "random undescriptive exit error" something like the following?
>> 
>> C:\php>pear install File_MARC
>> Failed to download pear/File_MARC within preferred state "stable",
>> latest release is version 0.7.3, stability "beta", use
>> "channel://pear.php.net/File_MARC-0.7.3" to install
>> install failed
>> 
>> One of these days that package will make it to 1.0 and the "-beta"
>> will no longer be necessary. Or the pear.php.net install instructions
>> will include that. Or newer versions of PEAR will be smarter about
>> detecting that no stable version is available and automatically offer
>> to install the beta.
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Riley Childs  wrote:
>>> Thanks! I will give it a shot tomorrow
>>> 
>>> Riley Childs
>>> Junior and Library Tech Manager
>>> Charlotte United Christian Academy
>>> +1 (704) 497-2086
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> Please excuse mistakes
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 25, 2013, at 8:14 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Try:
>>>> 
>>>> pear install file_marc-beta
>>>> 
>>>> -Ross.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wednesday, September 25, 2013, Riley Childs wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have been having some troubles with the installation (some random
>>>>> undescriptive exit error)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Riley Childs
>>>>> Junior and Library Tech Manager
>>>>> Charlotte United Christian Academy
>>>>> +1 (704) 497-2086
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> Please excuse mistakes
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 25, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Eric Phetteplace > >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think File_MARC is the standard:
>>>>> http://pear.php.net/package/File_MARC/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Are there others?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Eric
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Riley Childs > >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Does anyone know of any good MARC PHP Libraries, I am struggling to
>>>>> create
>>>>>>> MARC records out of our proprietary database.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Riley Childs
>>>>>>> Junior and Library Tech Manager
>>>>>>> Charlotte United Christian Academy
>>>>>>> +1 (704) 497-2086
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> Please excuse mistakes
>>>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bill Dueber
> Library Systems Programmer
> University of Michigan Library

Re: [CODE4LIB] Good MARC PHP Libraries,

[Ross Singer]

Try:

pear install file_marc-beta

-Ross.

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013, Riley Childs wrote:

> I have been having some troubles with the installation (some random
> undescriptive exit error)
>
> Riley Childs
> Junior and Library Tech Manager
> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> +1 (704) 497-2086
> Sent from my iPhone
> Please excuse mistakes
>
> > On Sep 25, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Eric Phetteplace 
> > >
> wrote:
> >
> > I think File_MARC is the standard:
> http://pear.php.net/package/File_MARC/
> >
> > Are there others?
> >
> > Best,
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Riley Childs 
> >> >
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of any good MARC PHP Libraries, I am struggling to
> create
> >> MARC records out of our proprietary database.
> >>
> >> Riley Childs
> >> Junior and Library Tech Manager
> >> Charlotte United Christian Academy
> >> +1 (704) 497-2086
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> Please excuse mistakes
> >>
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Σχετ: [CODE4LIB] New perl module MARC::File::MiJ -- marc-in-json for

[Ross Singer]

I mean, I'm not arguing against using a better a model for ES, but querying 
marc-in-json doesn't seem that complicated to me:

{
  "query": {
"query_string": {
  "query": "fields.100.a:Shakespeare"
}
  }
}

I don't see how you'd do this in MIR.  But I'm starting to have a hard time 
following what you're actually trying to do at this point.

-Ross.

On Sep 24, 2013, at 9:01 AM, dasos ili  wrote:

> My initial problem though with the marc-in-json approach is the complexity of 
> the JSON, i am looking to find a simpler model in order to also make my 
> queries, in ES for example, simpler to implement.
> 
> If anyone has any examples of how make use of this marc - in - json output in 
> order to use ES, it would be much appreciated. 
> 
> thank you 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Απο: Ross Singer 
> Προς: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU 
> Στάλθηκε: 3:47 μ.μ. Τρίτη, 24 Σεπτεμβρίου 2013
> Θέμα: Re: [CODE4LIB] New perl module MARC::File::MiJ -- marc-in-json for
> 
> 
> This serialization would actually be awful for the OP's use case, which (as
> I understand it) is to put it in MongoDB and Elasticsearch (which are
> exactly the use cases marc-in-json is designed for).
> 
> In this array of arrays approach, where the tag name is just another value
> (as opposed to a key), you cannot take advantage of JsonPath, thereby
> eliminating almost any possible way of querying this data in those
> databases.
> 
> This format is great for serializing/deserializing in and out of a MARC
> record structure (because it's incredibly fast and efficient).  Not so much
> for actually using in JSON-native environment.
> 
> marc-in-json was an intentional compromise so that it got the benefits that
> being optimized for json (as opposed to being optimized for MARC) brought.
> 
> -Ross.
> On Sep 24, 2013 6:57 AM, "Marc Chantreux"  wrote:
> 
>> hello,
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:00:35AM -0400, Bill Dueber wrote:
>>> The marc-in-json<
>> http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/blog/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in-json/
>>> 
>> 
>> My 2 cents:
>> 
>> * don't specify a MARC-in-Whatever format: define the way you store the
>>MARC record in memory then just use dumpers from the YAML, JSON, and
>>other serialization systems.
>> 
>> * marc-in-json itself (as described in the document) use dicts at every
>>level which leads to 2 issues:
>> 
>>* implementations of transformations and querying are painfull
>>* explicit use of useless keys = more useless data (not as crappy as
>>  XML but still useless.
>> 
>> MARC::MIR http://search.cpan.org/~marcc/marc-mir-0.4/lib/MARC/MIR.pod
>> In-memory representation is much simpler to handle, whatever the
>> programming langage you use.
>> 
>> As comparaison, the same record in MARC::MIR and MIJ.
>> HTH
>> 
>> MIR:
>> 
>> [ "01471cjm a2200349 a 4500"
>> , [ [ "001","5674874" ],
>>  [ "005","20030305110405.0" ],
>>  [ "007","sdubsmennmplu" ],
>>  [ "008","930331s1963nyuppn  eng d" ]
>>  [ "035", [ [ "9","(DLC)   93707283" ] ],
>> , [" "," "] ],
>>  [ "906", [ [ [ "a","7" ] ,
>>   [ "b","cbc" ],
>>   [ "c","copycat" ],
>>   [ "d","4" ],
>>   [ "e","ncip" ],
>>   [ "f","19" ],
>>   [ "g","y-soundrec" ] ],
>> [ " "," "]] ]
>> 
>> MIJ:
>> 
>> { "leader":"01471cjm a2200349 a 4500",
>>  "fields":
>>  [ { "001":"5674874" },
>>  { "005":"20030305110405.0" },
>>  { "007":"sdubsmennmplu" },
>>  { "008":"930331s1963nyuppn  eng d" },
>>  { "035": { "subfields": [
>>  { "9":"(DLC)   93707283" }
>>  ],
>>  "ind1":" ",
>>  "ind2":" " } },
>>  { "906":
>>  { "subfields":
>>  [ { "a":"7" },
>>  { "b":"cbc" },
>>  { "c":"copycat" },
>>  { "d":"4" },
>>  { "e":"ncip" },
>>  { "f":"19" },
>>  { "g":"y-soundrec" }
>>  ], "ind1":" ", "ind2":" " }}}
>> 
>> --
>> Marc Chantreux
>> Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique
>> 14 Rue René Descartes,
>> 67084  STRASBOURG CEDEX
>> ☎: 03.68.85.57.40
>> http://unistra.fr
>> "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet"
>>  -- Abraham Lincoln
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] New perl module MARC::File::MiJ -- marc-in-json for

[Ross Singer]

This serialization would actually be awful for the OP's use case, which (as
I understand it) is to put it in MongoDB and Elasticsearch (which are
exactly the use cases marc-in-json is designed for).

In this array of arrays approach, where the tag name is just another value
(as opposed to a key), you cannot take advantage of JsonPath, thereby
eliminating almost any possible way of querying this data in those
databases.

This format is great for serializing/deserializing in and out of a MARC
record structure (because it's incredibly fast and efficient).  Not so much
for actually using in JSON-native environment.

marc-in-json was an intentional compromise so that it got the benefits that
being optimized for json (as opposed to being optimized for MARC) brought.

-Ross.
On Sep 24, 2013 6:57 AM, "Marc Chantreux"  wrote:

> hello,
>
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:00:35AM -0400, Bill Dueber wrote:
> > The marc-in-json<
> http://dilettantes.code4lib.org/blog/2010/09/a-proposal-to-serialize-marc-in-json/
> >
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> * don't specify a MARC-in-Whatever format: define the way you store the
>   MARC record in memory then just use dumpers from the YAML, JSON, and
>   other serialization systems.
>
> * marc-in-json itself (as described in the document) use dicts at every
>   level which leads to 2 issues:
>
>   * implementations of transformations and querying are painfull
>   * explicit use of useless keys = more useless data (not as crappy as
> XML but still useless.
>
> MARC::MIR http://search.cpan.org/~marcc/marc-mir-0.4/lib/MARC/MIR.pod
> In-memory representation is much simpler to handle, whatever the
> programming langage you use.
>
> As comparaison, the same record in MARC::MIR and MIJ.
> HTH
>
> MIR:
>
> [ "01471cjm a2200349 a 4500"
> , [ [ "001","5674874" ],
> [ "005","20030305110405.0" ],
> [ "007","sdubsmennmplu" ],
> [ "008","930331s1963nyuppn  eng d" ]
> [ "035", [ [ "9","(DLC)   93707283" ] ],
>, [" "," "] ],
> [ "906", [ [ [ "a","7" ] ,
>  [ "b","cbc" ],
>  [ "c","copycat" ],
>  [ "d","4" ],
>  [ "e","ncip" ],
>  [ "f","19" ],
>  [ "g","y-soundrec" ] ],
>[ " "," "]] ]
>
> MIJ:
>
> { "leader":"01471cjm a2200349 a 4500",
> "fields":
> [ { "001":"5674874" },
> { "005":"20030305110405.0" },
> { "007":"sdubsmennmplu" },
> { "008":"930331s1963nyuppn  eng d" },
> { "035": { "subfields": [
> { "9":"(DLC)   93707283" }
> ],
> "ind1":" ",
> "ind2":" " } },
> { "906":
> { "subfields":
> [ { "a":"7" },
> { "b":"cbc" },
> { "c":"copycat" },
> { "d":"4" },
> { "e":"ncip" },
> { "f":"19" },
> { "g":"y-soundrec" }
> ], "ind1":" ", "ind2":" " }}}
>
> --
> Marc Chantreux
> Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique
> 14 Rue René Descartes,
> 67084  STRASBOURG CEDEX
> ☎: 03.68.85.57.40
> http://unistra.fr
> "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet"
> -- Abraham Lincoln
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] "or" queries against Horizon Z39.50 servers?

[Ross Singer]

Thanks, Tod.

Looks like i'm going to have to loop over the ISxNs.  Ick, indeed.

-Ross.

On Sep 20, 2013, at 2:53 PM, Tod Olson  wrote:

> The Horizon Z39.50 server does support boolean operations on fields like 
> author and title, but not on the numeric identifiers like IS*N or bib number. 
> I think it's because they are indexed differently in the underlying search 
> engine.
> 
> So in the below, the top three are fine, but as you've discovered the last 
> one barfs. I don't think there's a way around it, unless you want to loop 
> over the IS*Ns instead of ORing them. Ick.
> 
> Best,
> 
> -Tod
> 
> 
> open libcat.uchicago.edu
> format OPAC
> find @and @attr 1=4 "uses of infidelity" @attr 1=1003 "Martin Marty"
> show
> find @or @attr 1=4 "broke" @attr 1=1003 "Martin Marty"
> show
> find @attr 1=7 081080803X
> show
> find @or @attr 1=7 081080803X @attr 1=7 9780061733215
> show
> close
> exit
> 
> 
> On Sep 20, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Ross Singer 
> wrote:
> 
>> Ah, interesting trick!  Unfortunately, it doesn't work either (although it 
>> doesn't explode, it just returns zero hits).
>> 
>> I suspect you're right about the server not being configured to support 
>> booleans, which would be a shame.
>> 
>> -Ross.
>> 
>> On Sep 20, 2013, at 2:22 PM, "LeVan,Ralph"  wrote:
>> 
>>> I can't say anything about the horizon server.  But I have a suggestion.
>>> 
>>> It's possible that server is configured to not support Booleans (either on 
>>> that index or at all) and is blowing the trivial error response.  If this 
>>> is the case, there may be a workaround.  Instead of explicitly ORing them 
>>> together, maybe you can implicitly OR them together.
>>> 
>>> The new query would look like this: f @attr 1=7 @attr 4=6 "9780413690609 
>>> 0413690601"
>>> 
>>> What you are telling the server is that you want to search index 7 (use=7) 
>>> and the structure of the term is a list of words (structure=6).  First you 
>>> have to hope this works and second you have to hope that OR is the implicit 
>>> operator used in the list.  But, it's worth a try.  (In SRU we can 
>>> explicitly say that this is a list of words to be ORed together.)
>>> 
>>> Ralph (who doesn't quite regret all the z39.50 baloney stuck in his head)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of 
>>> Ross Singer
>>> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 2:10 PM
>>> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
>>> Subject: "or" queries against Horizon Z39.50 servers?
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I was wondering if anybody knew if there was some secret attribute 
>>> combination to successfully do a "or"-ed ISBN or ISSN query against a 
>>> SirsiDynix Z39.50 server.  I've tried it against quite a few different 
>>> implementations, but they all fail.
>>> 
>>> From yaz-client, it goes something like this:
>>> 
>>> Z> f @or @attr 1=7 9780413690609 @attr 1=7 0413690601
>>> Sent searchRequest.
>>> Received SearchResponse.
>>> Search was a bloomin' failure.
>>> Number of hits: 0, setno 1
>>> Result Set Status: none
>>> records returned: 1
>>> Diagnostic message(s) from database:
>>>  [100] Unspecified error -- v3 addinfo 'Unable to navigate!'
>>> Elapsed: 0.421485
>>> 
>>> All of the ones I've tried fail with that same error.
>>> 
>>> If I search on the ISBNs individually, e.g.:
>>> 
>>> Z> f @attr 1=7 9780413690609 
>>> Sent searchRequest.
>>> Received SearchResponse.
>>> Search was a success.
>>> Number of hits: 1, setno 2
>>> records returned: 0
>>> Elapsed: 0.606146
>>> 
>>> it works fine.
>>> 
>>> If you are able to successfully do or'ed ISBN or ISSN queries can you pass 
>>> along all of the use attributes that are being sent?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Ross.

[CODE4LIB] "or" queries against Horizon Z39.50 servers?

[Ross Singer]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anybody knew if there was some secret attribute combination 
to successfully do a "or"-ed ISBN or ISSN query against a SirsiDynix Z39.50 
server.  I've tried it against quite a few different implementations, but they 
all fail.

>From yaz-client, it goes something like this:

Z> f @or @attr 1=7 9780413690609 @attr 1=7 0413690601
Sent searchRequest.
Received SearchResponse.
Search was a bloomin' failure.
Number of hits: 0, setno 1
Result Set Status: none
records returned: 1
Diagnostic message(s) from database:
[100] Unspecified error -- v3 addinfo 'Unable to navigate!'
Elapsed: 0.421485

All of the ones I've tried fail with that same error.

If I search on the ISBNs individually, e.g.:

Z> f @attr 1=7 9780413690609 
Sent searchRequest.
Received SearchResponse.
Search was a success.
Number of hits: 1, setno 2
records returned: 0
Elapsed: 0.606146

it works fine.

If you are able to successfully do or'ed ISBN or ISSN queries can you pass 
along all of the use attributes that are being sent?

Thanks,
-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] "or" queries against Horizon Z39.50 servers?

[Ross Singer]

Ah, interesting trick!  Unfortunately, it doesn't work either (although it 
doesn't explode, it just returns zero hits).

I suspect you're right about the server not being configured to support 
booleans, which would be a shame.

-Ross.

On Sep 20, 2013, at 2:22 PM, "LeVan,Ralph"  wrote:

> I can't say anything about the horizon server.  But I have a suggestion.
> 
> It's possible that server is configured to not support Booleans (either on 
> that index or at all) and is blowing the trivial error response.  If this is 
> the case, there may be a workaround.  Instead of explicitly ORing them 
> together, maybe you can implicitly OR them together.
> 
> The new query would look like this: f @attr 1=7 @attr 4=6 "9780413690609 
> 0413690601"
> 
> What you are telling the server is that you want to search index 7 (use=7) 
> and the structure of the term is a list of words (structure=6).  First you 
> have to hope this works and second you have to hope that OR is the implicit 
> operator used in the list.  But, it's worth a try.  (In SRU we can explicitly 
> say that this is a list of words to be ORed together.)
> 
> Ralph (who doesn't quite regret all the z39.50 baloney stuck in his head)
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ross 
> Singer
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 2:10 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: "or" queries against Horizon Z39.50 servers?
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I was wondering if anybody knew if there was some secret attribute 
> combination to successfully do a "or"-ed ISBN or ISSN query against a 
> SirsiDynix Z39.50 server.  I've tried it against quite a few different 
> implementations, but they all fail.
> 
> From yaz-client, it goes something like this:
> 
> Z> f @or @attr 1=7 9780413690609 @attr 1=7 0413690601
> Sent searchRequest.
> Received SearchResponse.
> Search was a bloomin' failure.
> Number of hits: 0, setno 1
> Result Set Status: none
> records returned: 1
> Diagnostic message(s) from database:
>[100] Unspecified error -- v3 addinfo 'Unable to navigate!'
> Elapsed: 0.421485
> 
> All of the ones I've tried fail with that same error.
> 
> If I search on the ISBNs individually, e.g.:
> 
> Z> f @attr 1=7 9780413690609 
> Sent searchRequest.
> Received SearchResponse.
> Search was a success.
> Number of hits: 1, setno 2
> records returned: 0
> Elapsed: 0.606146
> 
> it works fine.
> 
> If you are able to successfully do or'ed ISBN or ISSN queries can you pass 
> along all of the use attributes that are being sent?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] PHP HTTP Client preference

[Ross Singer]

Hey Karen,

We use Guzzle: http://guzzlephp.org/

It's nice, seems to work well for our needs, is available in packagist, and is 
the HTTP client library in the official AWS SDK libraries (which was a big 
endorsement, in our view).

We're still in the process of moving all of our clients over to it (we built a 
homegrown HTTP client on top of CURL first), but have been really impressed 
with it so far.

-Ross.

On Sep 3, 2013, at 10:49 AM, "Coombs,Karen"  wrote:

> One project I'm working on for OCLC right now is building a set of 
> object-oriented client libraries in PHP that will assist developers with 
> interacting with our web services. The first of these libraries we'd like to 
> release provides classes for authentication and authorization to our web 
> services. You can read more about Authentication/Authorization and our web 
> services on the Developer Network site
> 
> The purpose of this project is to make a simple and easy to use object 
> oriented library that supports our various authentication methods.
> 
> This library need to make HTTP requests and I've looked at a number of 
> potential libraries and HTTP clients in PHP.
> 
> Why am I not just considering using CURL natively?
> 
> The standard CURL functions in PHP are not object-oriented. All of our code 
> libraries (both our authentication/authorization library and future libraries 
> for interacting with the REST services themselves) need to perform a robust 
> set of HTTP interactions. Using the standard CURL functions would very likely 
> increase the size of the code libraries and the potential for errors and 
> inconsistencies within the code base because of how much we use HTTP.
> 
> Given this, I believe there are three possible options and would like to get 
> the community's feedback on which option you would prefer.
> 
> Option 1. - Write my own HTTP Client on top of the standard PHP CURL 
> implementation. This means people using the code library can only download it 
> and now worry about any dependencies. However, that means adding extra code 
> to our library which, although essential, isn't at the core of what we're 
> trying to support. My fear is that my client will never be as good as an 
> existing client.
> 
> Option 2. - Use HTTPful code library (http://phphttpclient.com/). This is a 
> well developed and supported code base which is designed specifically to 
> support REST interactions. It is easy to install via Composer or Phar, or 
> manually. It is slim and trim and only does the HTTP Client functions. It 
> does create a dependency on an external (but small) library.
> 
> Option 3. - Use the Zend 2 HTTPClient. This is a well developed and supported 
> code base. The biggest downside is that Zend is a massive code library to 
> require. A developer could choose to download only the specific set of 
> classes that we are dependent on, but asking people to do this may prove 
> confusing to some developers.
> 
> I'd appreciate your feedback so we can provide the most useful set of 
> libraries to the community.
> 
> Karen
> 
> Karen A. Coombs
> Senior Product Analyst
> WorldShare Platform
> coom...@oclc.org
> 614-764-4068
> Skype: librarywebchic

Re: [CODE4LIB] Subject Terms in Institutional Repositories

[Ross Singer]

I think the argument is that "librarians think in LCSH/academics think in 
discipline-specific vocabularies".

How many medical collections use LCSH over MeSH, for example?

-Ross.

On Aug 30, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Shaun Ellis  wrote:

> Mike, what do you mean when you say "don't think in terms of LCSH"?  Is there 
> some other vocabulary that they think in?  If LCSH is the best option, the 
> right interface may help them "think in terms of LCSH".  For example, 
> auto-completion/suggestion of headings when tagging or searching might be 
> necessary.
> 
> -Shaun
> 
> On 8/30/13 10:05 AM, Michael J. Giarlo wrote:
>> We are using LCSH in our repository, but it hasn't been very widely used
>> because our users, largely research faculty and staff, don't think in terms
>> of LCSH.
>> 
>> -Mike
>> On Aug 30, 2013 9:28 AM, "Matthew Sherman"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Code4Libbers,
>>> 
>>> I am working on cleaning up our institutional repository, and one of the
>>> big areas of improvement needed is the list of terms from the subject
>>> fields.  It is messy and I want to take the subject terms and place them
>>> into a much better order.  I was contemplating using Library of Congress
>>> Subject Headings, but I wanted to see what others have done in this area to
>>> see if there is another good controlled vocabulary that could work better.
>>> Any insight is welcome.  Thanks for your time everyone.
>>> 
>>> Matt Sherman
>>> Digital Content Librarian
>>> University of Bridgeport
>>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] public computers- Mac mini and Bootcamp?

[Ross Singer]

Why would it cost >$1k++?

We have the 2.5 Ghz dual core i5 ($599 new) which we upgraded to 16GB ($131.99 
via Crucial.com - no doubt there are cheaper alternatives).  Runs Windows fine 
in a VM (although, like you, I really only use it for IE testing).

Certainly this doesn't account for keyboards, mice or monitors, but that's the 
nice part of the mini: many libraries have those things lying around anyway.

If all you want are web browsing machines (or suspect that that is all they 
will be used for), I absolutely agree this is probably a waste of money.  But 
if you want to get the most versatility in a machine, it's a pretty good 
bargain, I think.

-Ross.

On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:37 PM, Cary Gordon  wrote:

> Aside from the aforementioned support hell issue, a Mac Mini that would run 
> Windows 8 and Mountain Lion or Mavericks with decent speed would cost over 
> $1k ++. I run them both on my fairly maxed-out two year old MacBook Pro, and 
> while the results on the PC side are acceptable for what I need — mostly site 
> testing in versions of IE — they are by no means spectacular.
> 
> Someone should try setting up something like this as a science project. 
> Please report back.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cary
> 
> On Aug 12, 2013, at 10:13 AM, Ross Singer  wrote:
> 
>> If you want to go with Mac Minis (which, having had to use one as my primary 
>> work machine for the last two weeks while my Macbook was in the shop, seems 
>> like a perfectly inexpensive and awesome choice), I would probably just max 
>> out the RAM on them and opt for putting Windows in VirtualBox (or its ilk) 
>> rather than worry about Bootcamp.
>> 
>> It would give you more options (Windows 7/8, Linux, etc.) and wouldn't 
>> require rebooting.
>> 
>> I do like the idea of more versatile public computers, although I'm not sure 
>> how much real use they would get beyond web browsing, in practice.  I would 
>> imagine that probably depends a lot on what you make available and how you 
>> promote them (for example, offering iMovie and making firewire cables 
>> available, etc.).
>> 
>> Also, I can't comment on what the maintenance overhead would be.  Obviously 
>> in the library world, there's probably a lot more acquired knowledge on 
>> imaging and locking down Windows than alternatives.
>> 
>> -Ross.
>> 
>> On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Nate Hill  wrote:
>> 
>>> Is anyone on the list using mac computers and bootcamp or some other
>>> partition to offer public access to either a mac or windows environment for
>>> their users?  This seems like ti could be a pretty cool option to present
>>> folks with.
>>> 
>>> Any thoughts on the matter?  I'm trying to figure out what to replace our
>>> public computers with here in Chattanooga.  Obviously I want them to be
>>> both inexpensive and awesome.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Nate Hill
>>> nathanielh...@gmail.com
>>> http://4thfloor.chattlibrary.org/
>>> http://www.natehill.net

Re: [CODE4LIB] public computers- Mac mini and Bootcamp?

[Ross Singer]

If you want to go with Mac Minis (which, having had to use one as my primary 
work machine for the last two weeks while my Macbook was in the shop, seems 
like a perfectly inexpensive and awesome choice), I would probably just max out 
the RAM on them and opt for putting Windows in VirtualBox (or its ilk) rather 
than worry about Bootcamp.

It would give you more options (Windows 7/8, Linux, etc.) and wouldn't require 
rebooting.

I do like the idea of more versatile public computers, although I'm not sure 
how much real use they would get beyond web browsing, in practice.  I would 
imagine that probably depends a lot on what you make available and how you 
promote them (for example, offering iMovie and making firewire cables 
available, etc.).

Also, I can't comment on what the maintenance overhead would be.  Obviously in 
the library world, there's probably a lot more acquired knowledge on imaging 
and locking down Windows than alternatives.

-Ross.

On Aug 12, 2013, at 11:57 AM, Nate Hill  wrote:

> Is anyone on the list using mac computers and bootcamp or some other
> partition to offer public access to either a mac or windows environment for
> their users?  This seems like ti could be a pretty cool option to present
> folks with.
> 
> Any thoughts on the matter?  I'm trying to figure out what to replace our
> public computers with here in Chattanooga.  Obviously I want them to be
> both inexpensive and awesome.
> 
> -- 
> Nate Hill
> nathanielh...@gmail.com
> http://4thfloor.chattlibrary.org/
> http://www.natehill.net

Re: [CODE4LIB] LibGuides: I don't get it

[Ross Singer]

I don't think the remedy to a lack of technology skills is to make
librarians into shade tree sysadmins.

*That's* the expense that gets swept under the rug in the open source
argument. Most advocates have systems administrators and infrastructure to
support implementing things themselves and grossly underestimate the cost
when that environment doesn't exist.

-Ross.

On Sunday, August 11, 2013, Cornel Darden Jr. wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Lack of technology skills seems to be a recurring theme here. 21st century
> Librarians shouldn't lack any technology skills. Those that do need to get
> them or look for another career.; or they are just hurting the patrons and
> institutions they serve.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cornel Darden Jr.
> MSLIS
> Librarian
> Kennedy-King College
> City Colleges of Chicago
> Work 773-602-5449
> Cell 708-705-2945
>
> > On Aug 11, 2013, at 8:10 PM, stuart yeates 
> > >
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 12/08/13 12:20, Andrew Darby wrote:
> >> I don't get this argument at all.  Why is it "counter productive to try
> to
> >> look at open source alternatives" if the vendor's option is relatively
> >> cheap?  Why wouldn't you investigate all options?
> >
> > If you have no in-house technical capability, the cost of looking at an
> open source alternative can easily outweigh the multi-year licensing fee.
> >
> > cheers
> > stuart
> > --
> > Stuart Yeates
> > Library Technology Services http://www.victoria.ac.nz/library/
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby

[Ross Singer]

What would you consider a "boutique" language?  What isn't?

-Ross.


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Rich Wenger  wrote:

> The proliferation of boutique "languages" is a cancer on our community.
>  Each one is a YAP (Yet Another Priesthood), and little else.  The world
> does not need five slightly varying syntaxes for a substring function. If I
> had switched languages every time the web community "recommended" it, I
> would have rewritten a mountain of apps at least twice in the past five
> years.  What's next, a separate language to put periods at the end of
> sentences? Just my $.02.  That is all.
>
> Rich Wenger
> E-Resource Systems Manager, MIT Libraries
> rwen...@mit.edu
> 617-253-0035
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of
> Joshua Welker
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 9:56 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@listserv.nd.edu
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
>
> I am already a big user of PHP for web apps, but PHP does not make a
> fantastic scripting language in my experience.
>
> Josh Welker
> Information Technology Librarian
> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
> University of Central Missouri
> Warrensburg, MO 64093
> JCKL 2260
> 660.543.8022
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Riley Childs
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 8:18 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
>
> No mention of PHP?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 9:14 AM, Kurt Nordstrom 
> wrote:
>
> > Whoohoo, late to the party!
> >
> > I like Python because I learned it first, and I haven't had a need to
> > explore Ruby yet.
> >
> > I did briefly foray into learning Ruby in order to try to learn Rails,
> > and I actually found that my background in Python sort of gave me
> > brain-jam for learning Ruby, because the languages were so close
> > together, but just different in some ways. So my mind would be 'oh, so
> > it's just  but then, it's not. If I tackle
> > Ruby again, I will definitely try to 'empty my cup' first.
> >
> > -K
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Marc Chantreux  wrote:
> >
> >> hello,
> >>
> >> Sorry comming late with it but:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 10:43:33AM -0500, Joshua Welker wrote:
> >>> Not intending to start a language flame war/holy war here, but in
> >>> the library coding community, is there a particular reason to use
> >>> Ruby over Python or vice-versa?
> >>
> >> Is it the only choices you have? Because I'd personnally advice none
> >> of them
> >>
> >> I tested both of them before stucking to Perl just because
> >>
> >> * it is very pleasant when it come to explore and modify
> >> datastructures  and strings (which library things are).
> >> * the ecosystem is briliant: perl comes with lot of libraries and
> >> tools  with a quality i haven't found in other languages.
> >>
> >> Of course, perl is not perfect and i really would like to use a
> >> modern emerging compiled language like go, rust, haskell or even
> >> something on the jvm (like clojure or the emerging perl6) but all of
> >> them miss libraries.
> >>
> >> HTH
> >> regards
> >> --
> >> Marc Chantreux
> >> Université de Strasbourg, Direction Informatique
> >> 14 Rue René Descartes,
> >> 67084  STRASBOURG CEDEX
> >> ☎: 03.68.85.57.40
> >> http://unistra.fr
> >> "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet"
> >>-- Abraham Lincoln
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.blar.net/kurt/blog/
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby

[Ross Singer]

Muahahahahahahaha!

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And you walked right into it!  You fools!

-Ross.

On Monday, July 29, 2013, Jay Luker wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 4:38 PM, Joshua Welker >
> wrote:
>
> > And I hate Python whitespace.
>
> Ah-ha!
>
> A more paranoid pythonista than I might suspect this whole thread was
> simply an exercise in Ruby shilling.
>
> --jay
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby

[Ross Singer]

I can only answer for the Ruby support, I can't compare Ruby libs to Python
libs on these, but:

MARC: there's Ruby-MARC.  I helped write it, so I'm biased.

XML tools: depends on what you need.  In general, Ruby doesn't have great
support for sophisticated XML problems.  Nokogiri has a great API for DOM
parsing.  Code4libbers have reported plenty of frustrations with bugs,
though.  SAX support exists, but is wanting.  See also, xslt.  You can use
the fairly close to the metal libxml ruby bindings, as well, but the API is
very non-Ruby.

SPARQL tools: rdf.rb provides some fantastic libraries.  There's a SPARQL
gem, although it doesn't provide SPARQL update or property paths (
https://github.com/ruby-rdf/sparql).  That only matters to you, if, you
know, it matters to you.

Solr: There's rsolr and sunspot.  If you ever decide you'd like to try
ElasticSearch, there's Tire, which is great (I use it all the time).

MySQL/PostgreSQL: there are lots of ORMs, if that's what you're looking
for.  ActiveRecord is the most common, although DataMapper has a better API
(IMO).  I use Sequel a lot for performance or for PostgreSQL-specific
functionality (array/hstore fields, etc.)

Screen scraping tools: these exist, but I'm not all the familiar with them.
 I mostly just use HTTParty and Nokogiri.

SOAP: Again, YMMV with this.  I think Savon has a fantastic API, but I have
no idea how well it deals with the vagaries of different SOAP server
responses.

REST: There's the aforementioned HTTParty, although rest-client is probably
the most commonly used.

I think it's probably unrealistic to expect one language to handle all of
these well (well, there's Java, but then you've got other factors to
weigh).  I've found Ruby to be a pretty good all-purpose language.  Most of
my maintenance tools are written in Ruby as rake tasks (despite the fact
that the primary project I work on is written in PHP).  It helps that
Ruby's performance is beginning to catch up to Python's (although Python is
still faster for most things, I think).

-Ross.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Joshua Welker  wrote:

> Thanks, this is more along the lines I was looking for.
>
> I started using Python because PHP (my usual web language of choice) has
> quite poor libraries for SOAP requests, and Python was easy to use as a
> glue script to fill the SOAP holes in my program.
>
> One of the things I wanted to ask that went largely unanswered is what
> kinds of typical library coding activities are not very well supported in
> either language? For instance:
>
> -MARC i/o (both have this covered, I know, but it is a prime example)
> -XML tools
> -SPARQL tools
> -Working with Solr
> -MySQL/Postgres tools
> -Screen scraping tools
> -SOAP/REST tools
>
> ...etc.
>
> And I am limiting my inquiry to Python and Ruby because I am looking for
> quick "glue script" languages and not something to write a whole web app.
> For instance, something I can schedule as a cron task to get some remote
> data and index it locally. I would use PHP or Java for a full-blown
> application. I guess I should include Perl in the discussion, too, but
> Perl's syntax is a little heady for me.
>
> I am not trying to be incendiary here, so I hope you all do not respond to
> me as such. I think these are pretty reasonable and concrete questions.
> It's not like I'm asking "What's the best language?" in a general and
> open-ended way.
>
> Josh Welker
> Information Technology Librarian
> James C. Kirkpatrick Library
> University of Central Missouri
> Warrensburg, MO 64093
> JCKL 2260
> 660.543.8022
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Scott Turnbull
> Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 12:17 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby
>
> I think it mostly comes down to what you're looking for out of the
> language choice.  Both are great language.  I love the explicitness and
> community around Python, the meta-programming features of Ruby are a lot
> of fun as well.
>
> Both have great communities that support a lot of diversity.  I feel
> python comes out a bit better on this but only just a bit.
>
>
> Some great fits for Python in libraries.
> -  Syntax is easy to learn so if you have to get a team working on the
> same skillset this is a big advantage.
> -  If you need to work with scholars who need to learn programming, the
> easy of learning python is a big advantage here.
> -  If you work in natural language processing or with geo-spacial data
> then python is particularly well suited.
> -  You need a stable language with good backwards compatibility.
>
> Some great fits for Ruby in libraries:
> -  If you do a lot of web development Rails is an obvious advantage,
> though rails dominance is almost a disservice to the Ruby community by how
> much it obscures the language.
> -  If you work with unstructured data I think Ruby comes out a little on
> top (just a little) and there are some neat 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Python and Ruby

[Ross Singer]

On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 1:08 PM, jimm wetherbee  wrote:

>
> On 7/29/2013 1:04 PM, Ed Summers wrote:
>
>> Ok, I think I'm going to have nightmares about that. //Ed
>>
>
> Over the code or the manual?


Over the NISO standardization process required to form the exploratory
committee.

-Ross.

>
>
> --jimm
>
>
> --
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] StackExchange reboot?

[Ross Singer]

What, exactly, is the intended goal for the stack exchange sites?

We have pretty established and highly active forums of communication in our
field. What does SE bring to the table that's enough of an advantage to
pull people away from the existing forums?

These SE sites really seemed to be trying to solve a problem that doesn't
exist, especially, as noted by others, that the "SE way" is culturally
quite different than how we usually ask questions.

-Ross.
On Jul 6, 2013 1:21 PM, "Collie, Aaron"  wrote:

> Hey,
>
> So, both the Libraries<
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/12432/libraries-information-science>
> and Digital Preservation<
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/39787/digital-preservation>
> StackExchange sites did not pass beta.
>
> Apparently there was not enough interest (e.g. 200 vs 1,500 visits/day)
> and I also suspect some issues with scope (e.g. information science vs
> libraries vs digital preservation) and execution.
>
> Am I the only one that feels like it is something worth revisiting?
>
> I would think given this community's success with backchannels and
> communication, the concept might benefit from some code4lib incubation. Or
> maybe that already happened and there is just not enough interest in a Q&A
> site.
>
> -Aaron
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] best way to make MARC files available to anyone

[Ross Singer]

Or the Internet Archive, since there are also a whole bunch of other MARC dumps 
there.

-Ross.

On Jun 12, 2013, at 4:25 AM, Owen Stephens  wrote:

> Putting the files on GitHub might be an option - free for public 
> repositories, and 38Mb should not be a problem to host there
> 
> Owen
> 
> Owen Stephens
> Owen Stephens Consulting
> Web: http://www.ostephens.com
> Email: o...@ostephens.com
> Telephone: 0121 288 6936
> 
> On 12 Jun 2013, at 02:24, Dana Pearson  wrote:
> 
>> I have crosswalked the Project Gutenberg RDF/DC metadata to MARC.  I would
>> like to make these files available to any library that is interested.
>> 
>> I thought that I would put them on my website via FTP but don't know if
>> that is the best way.  Don't have an ftp client myself so was thinking that
>> that may be now passé.
>> 
>> I tried using Google Drive with access available via the link to two
>> versions of the files, UTF8 and MARC8.  However, it seems that that is not
>> a viable solution.  I can access the files with the URLs provided by
>> setting the access to anyone with the URL but doesn't work for some of
>> those testing it for me or with the links I have on my webpage..
>> 
>> I have five folders with files of about 38 MB total.  I have separated the
>> ebooks, audio books, juvenile content, miscellaneous and non-Latin scripts
>> such as Chinese, Modern Greek.  Most of the content is in the ebook folder.
>> 
>> I would like to make access as easy as possible.
>> 
>> Google Drive seems to work for me.  Here's the link to my page with the
>> links in case you would like to look at the folders.  Works for me but not
>> for everyone who's tried it.
>> 
>> http://dbpearsonmlis.com/ProjectGutenbergMarcRecords.html
>> 
>> thanks,
>> dana
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dana Pearson
>> dbpearsonmlis.com

Re: [CODE4LIB] LOC Subject Headings API

[Ross Singer]

Do FAST headings match anything?

I guess what I mean is, do you have data that uses FAST headings?  If not,
what is it matching?

-Ross.

On Thursday, June 6, 2013, Joshua Welker wrote:

> I finished the project. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
>
> I ended up using the OCLC Fast API (fast.oclc.org/searchfast/fastsuggest)
> rather than saving everything locally. Tracking down the entire LCSH
> authority listing and parsing it into a simple data format was just
> unwieldy.
>
> The search box I built suggests the LCSH terms from OCLC as well as
> LibGuides and LibraryH3lp FAQ links. jQuery UI Autocomplete is used for the
> suggestion functionality. The search box send actual searches to EBSCO
> Discovery Service. You can see it below on our homepage:
>
> https://library.sbuniv.edu
>
>
> Josh Welker
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] EBSCO LinkSource customers?

[Ross Singer]

Ok, I wanted to send back to the list what I found out, because there's some 
pretty useful (and completely undocumented AFAICT) info here:

Ben Hockenberry pointed out that they are able to circumvent the authentication 
via some customer ID that they set up.  He sent me this link:

http://linksource.ebsco.com/ls.c471c170-ceba-4e65-bdcc-42cd2401e9e8.true/linking.aspx?sid=google&auinit=P&aulast=Bravender&atitle=Weeding+an+Outdated+Collection+in+an+Automated+Retrieval+System&id=doi:10.1080/01462679.2011.605290&title=Collection+Management&volume=36&issue=4&date=2011&spage=237

where the ls.{guid}.true supposedly means something.  I dug around in the pages 
that EBSCO serves from this, but I never found the string 
"c471c170-ceba-4e65-bdcc-42cd2401e9e8" come up anywhere, except one place, the 
'ReviseRequest' form.

LinkSource sends the form values: 
sec.guid=c471c170-ceba-4e65-bdcc-42cd2401e9e8&sec.auth=True in the 
ReviseRequest form and although I couldn't find this GUID in other LinkSource 
HTML page source (either from St. John Fisher College, Chesapeake College, or 
University of Lincoln), I decided to play around with the form query parameter 
some.

When I switched 'sec.guid' to 'sec.id' and sent the AtoZ customer ID as the 
value, I was able to both specify the institution and circumvent the 
authentication.

For Chesapeake College, this would be:

http://linksource.ebsco.com/linking.aspx?sid=google&auinit=P&aulast=Bravender&atitle=Weeding+an+Outdated+Collection+in+an+Automated+Retrieval+System&id=doi:10.1080/01462679.2011.605290&title=Collection+Management&volume=36&issue=4&date=2011&spage=237&sec.id=9922&sec.auth=True

for University of Lincoln, this would be:

http://linksource.ebsco.com/linking.aspx?sid=google&auinit=P&aulast=Bravender&atitle=Weeding+an+Outdated+Collection+in+an+Automated+Retrieval+System&id=doi:10.1080/01462679.2011.605290&title=Collection+Management&volume=36&issue=4&date=2011&spage=237&sec.id=1710&sec.auth=True

etc.  Note that you have to remove all linksource.ebsco.com cookies for this to 
work.

Anyway, I hope this is useful to somebody and I want to thank Ben Hockenberry 
and Eric Phetteplace for helping me out with this.  Now if I can only figure 
out a way to disable LinkSource's 'direct linking', I'm set.

Thanks!
-Ross.

On Jun 5, 2013, at 11:25 AM, Ross Singer  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if there was anybody on the list that works for an 
> institution that uses EBSCO's LinkSource as their link resolver that 
> _doesn't_ hide it behind their single sign-on service.  Or, alternately, if 
> you know of one (from somewhere other than where you work), that's welcome, 
> too.
> 
> I'm trying to find a cross-section to see how much variation occurs, but 
> having very little luck finding examples that aren't password protected.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Ross.

[CODE4LIB] EBSCO LinkSource customers?

[Ross Singer]

Hi all,

I was wondering if there was anybody on the list that works for an institution 
that uses EBSCO's LinkSource as their link resolver that _doesn't_ hide it 
behind their single sign-on service.  Or, alternately, if you know of one (from 
somewhere other than where you work), that's welcome, too.

I'm trying to find a cross-section to see how much variation occurs, but having 
very little luck finding examples that aren't password protected.

Thanks,
-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] A question about voting points

[Ross Singer]

PATCHES WELCOME.

-Ross.

On Apr 1, 2013, at 12:01 PM, "David J. Fiander"  wrote:

> So, I just voted for the Code4Lib 2014 location. There are two possible
> venues, and I was given three points to apportion however I wish.
> 
> While having multiple votes, to spread around at will, makes a lot of
> sense, shouldn't the number of votes each elector is granted be limited
> to max(3, count(options)-1)? That is, when voting for a binary, I get
> one vote, when voting on a choice of three items, I get two votes, and
> for anything more than three choices, I get three votes?
> 
> I mean, realistically, one could give one vote to Austin and two votes
> to Raleigh, but why bother?

Re: [CODE4LIB] ElasticSearch

[Ross Singer]

So the main advantages to ES over Solr that I can think of offhand are the fact 
that you can store and search on complex JSON documents (that is, documents 
with nested objects, etc.) making it an effective standalone document database 
and the fact that it will automatically replicate and shard to other instances 
using zeroconf.

-Ross.

On Mar 14, 2013, at 3:10 PM, Cary Gordon  wrote:

> I am trying to decide whether we should evaluate it and possibly do a
> Drupal integration.
> 
> I know that this is not a trivial question, but, being lazy, I would like
> to know in what ways it provides services that I can't get from Solr. I
> have looked at the comparo cheatsheet — http://solr-vs-elasticsearch.com
> 
> Cary
> 
> On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:59 AM, MJ Suhonos  wrote:
> 
>> Likewise, I've been using it since mid-2010 (0.6.0).  What do you want to
>> know about it?
>> 
>> MJ
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cary Gordon
> The Cherry Hill Company
> http://chillco.com

Re: [CODE4LIB] ElasticSearch

[Ross Singer]

On Mar 14, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Cary Gordon  wrote:

> Anyone using it?

We do, what are you looking to know?

-Ross.

> 
> Thanks,
> Cary
> 
> -- 
> Cary Gordon
> The Cherry Hill Company
> http://chillco.com

Re: [CODE4LIB] Slicing/dicing/combining large amounts of data efficiently

[Ross Singer]

I'd also consider using a document db (e.g. MongoDb) with the marc-in-JSON
format for this.

You could run jsonpath queries or map/reduce to get your answers.

Mongo runs best in memory, but I think you'll be fine since you don't need
immediate answers.

-Ross.

On Wednesday, February 27, 2013, Andy Kohler wrote:

> I agree with Terry: use a database.  Since you're doing multiple queries,
> invest the time up front to import your data in a queryable format, with
> indexes, instead of repeatedly building comparison files.
>
> But of course, it depends... dealing with large amounts of data efficiently
> is often best done with lots of memory.  But if you can run mysql and the
> lengthy up-front parsing/loading/indexing of the records is acceptable, go
> for it.
>
> For what it's worth, I have done something similar for many years, where I
> build a database with all of our MARC records, parsed down to the subfield
> level.  It's great for queries like "find me all the records with XYZ in
> one subfield and ABC in another" or "find all of the duplicate OCLC
> numbers".  It's not so great if you need to output the original field in a
> report (though it can be rebuilt from the subfields).
>
> Here's the Oracle table I use:
> CREATE TABLE bib_subfield
> (record_id INT NOT NULL
> ,field_seq INT NOT NULL
> ,subfield_seq INT NOT NULL
> ,indicators CHAR(2) NULL
> ,tag CHAR(4) NOT NULL
> ,subfield NVARCHAR2(4000) NULL
> )
> ;
>
> Our MARC data is Unicode, thus the NVARCHAR.  Super-long subfields like
> some 5xx notes do get truncated but that's a tiny fraction of a percentage
> of data lost, a fair tradeoff for our needs.
>
> field_seq and subfield_seq are numbers tracking the ordinal position of
> each field within the record, and each subfield within a field, for those
> occasional queries wanting data from the "first" 650 field, or subfields
> which aren't in the "correct" order per catalogers.  You may not need that
> level of detail.
>
> Another, completely unrelated, possible solution depending on your needs:
> run the records through solrmarc and do your queries via solr?
>
> Good luck... let us know what you eventually decide to do.
>
> --Andy
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Reese, Terry
> >wrote:
>
> > Kyle -- if this was me -- I'd break the file into a database.  You have a
> > lot of different options, but the last time I had to do something like
> this
> > -- I broke the data into 10 tables -- a control table with a primary key
> > and oclc number, a table for 0xx fields, a table for 1xx, 2xx, etc.
> >  including OCLC number and key that they relate too.  You can actually do
> > this with MarcEdit (if you have mysql installed) -- but on a laptop --
> I'm
> > not going to guarantee speed with the process.  Plus, the process to
> > generate the SQL data will be significant.  It might take 15 hours to
> > generate the database, but then you'd have it and could create indexes on
> > it.  But you could use it to create the database and then prep the files
> > for later work.
> >
> > --TR
> >
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] A newbie seeking input/suggestions

[Ross Singer]

The intercom is a little different because, presumably, that's
building-wide. The doorbell's chime could be located in a staff area.

Although, I do think she said she's hearing-impaired, which would imply the
need for a multimodal alert.

-Ross.

On Friday, February 22, 2013, Kyle Banerjee wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 6:50 AM, Andreas Orphanides 
> 
> >wrote:
>
> > Staff numbers remain static, but responsibilities (and gate
> > counts) keep increasing. As things get busier, we focus on our core
> > responsibilities and some of the added stuff can fall to the wayside. If
> > the overhead of participating in the backup system exceeds the available
> > mental space, then people are going to forget/ignore it in lieu of more
> > central concerns. I don't think this is indicative of poor staff quality,
> > though -- just a natural process of triage.
> >
> > I don't think the correct solution is punitive -- that would only make
> the
> > existing problem of managing responsibilities worse. Assuming that we're
> > not going to get additional personnel, the best route is probably to
> > implement a system that's as streamlined and easy as possible for the
> > participants. This is why the doorbell works so well.
> >
>
> Agreed on all points except the doorbell since the OP indicated that the
> intercom (which works the same as a doorbell for purposes here) wasn't an
> acceptable solution because the noise it made annoyed patrons.
>
> Expecting people to do good things and holding them accountable really
> doesn't have anything to do with punitive action. Oppressive methods and
> imposed solutions rarely work for the simple reason that people only do
> what you make them do rather than what is needed.
>
> The key to success is engagement. The key to getting people engaged is
> showing them that you know they're good, that others count on them, and
> that it's important that they deliver. If things don't go as expected, you
> need a discussion over what happened and how to make things better in the
> future. Expectations should never be low -- that all but guarantees nothing
> will happen.
>
> If the staff I work with had to deal with the backup problem that started
> this thread, we'd have a conversation to see what everyone thought would
> work best. Then we'd agree on something to try, touch base regularly to
> identify what's working, what's not, and decide how to proceed from there.
> If the solution for one problem causes other issues, that's part of the
> conversation.
>
> Every place I've ever worked, I'm told there is someone who can't do
> computers or operate X equipment (often this is reported by the person in
> question). I have yet to actually meet someone who actually is no good with
> this stuff and who can't be brought up to speed in a reasonable amount of
> time. My experience is that even the most adamant Luddites do just fine if
> you invest a little time and faith in them.
>
> kyle
>

[CODE4LIB] Project Ride Share Breakout Google Group created

[Ross Singer]

Hi everybody.  On the Wednesday breakout sessions in Chicago, we had a breakout 
that was titled "Project Rideshare Board", which was about trying to come up 
with a solution to help libraries find cross-institutional development 
partners; advertise specs, needs and membership; and foster learning 
opportunities for new roles, languages, or responsibilities (project manager, 
development, etc.).

Here's the summary of the breakout (btw, if you attended, please add your 
name!):

http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/2013_project_rideshare_breakout

And here's the Google Group where we'll test the whole viability of the concept 
by trying to create the rideshare board.

The groups is by no means limited to those that attended the breakout, so 
please join if you're interested in pushing this forward!

Thanks,
-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Fuseki and other SPARQL servers

[Ross Singer]

I'll add that the LARQ plugin for Fuseki (which adds Lucene indexes) is pretty 
awesome, as well.

-Ross.

On Feb 20, 2013, at 3:57 PM, John Fereira  wrote:

> If forgot about that.  That issue was created quite awhile ago and I hadn't 
> check on it in a long time.  I've found that Jetty has worked fine in our 
> production environment so far.  As I wrote earlier, I have it connecting to a 
> jena SDB that is used for a semantic web application (VIVO) that was 
> developed here.  Although we have the semantic web application running on a 
> different server than the SDB database I found the performance was fairly 
> significantly improved by having the Fuseki server running on the same 
> machine as the SDB.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ethan 
> Gruber
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 2:52 PM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Fuseki and other SPARQL servers
> 
> Hi Hugh,
> 
> I have investigated the possibility of deploying Fuseki as a war in Tomcat (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-201) because I wasn't sure how the 
> default Jetty container would respond in production, but since you aren't 
> having any problems with that deployment, I may go ahead and do that.
> 
> Ethan
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Hugh Cayless  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ethan!
>> 
>> We've been using Jena/Fuseki in papyri.info for about a year now, iirc.
>> We started with Mulgara, but switched. It's running in its own Jetty 
>> container in our system, but I've had no performance issues with it 
>> whatever.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Hugh
>> 
>> On Feb 20, 2013, at 14:31 , Ethan Gruber  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have been playing around with Fuseki (
>>> http://jena.apache.org/documentation/serving_data/index.html) for a 
>>> few months to get my feet wet with accessing and querying RDF.  I 
>>> quite like it. I find it well documented and easy to set up.  We 
>>> will soon deploy a SPARQL server in a production environment, and I 
>>> would like to know if others on the list have experience with Fuseki 
>>> in production, or have
>> other
>>> recommendations.  Mulgara is off the table as it inexplicably 
>>> conflicts with other apps installed in Tomcat.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ethan
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Fuseki and other SPARQL servers

[Ross Singer]

On Feb 20, 2013, at 2:52 PM, Ethan Gruber  wrote:

> Hi Hugh,
> 
> I have investigated the possibility of deploying Fuseki as a war in Tomcat (
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-201) because I wasn't sure how
> the default Jetty container would respond in production, but since you
> aren't having any problems with that deployment, I may go ahead and do that.

Fuseki/Jetty will have no problems scaling, it's what the Talis Platform used 
for large datasets.  I also ran a large dataset for quite a while with it. 

Which backend are you using?  TDB?  SDB?

-Ross.

> 
> Ethan
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Hugh Cayless  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Ethan!
>> 
>> We've been using Jena/Fuseki in papyri.info for about a year now, iirc.
>> We started with Mulgara, but switched. It's running in its own Jetty
>> container in our system, but I've had no performance issues with it
>> whatever.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Hugh
>> 
>> On Feb 20, 2013, at 14:31 , Ethan Gruber  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have been playing around with Fuseki (
>>> http://jena.apache.org/documentation/serving_data/index.html) for a few
>>> months to get my feet wet with accessing and querying RDF.  I quite like
>>> it. I find it well documented and easy to set up.  We will soon deploy a
>>> SPARQL server in a production environment, and I would like to know if
>>> others on the list have experience with Fuseki in production, or have
>> other
>>> recommendations.  Mulgara is off the table as it inexplicably conflicts
>>> with other apps installed in Tomcat.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ethan
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] GitHub Myths (was thanks and poetry)

[Ross Singer]

On Feb 20, 2013, at 11:42 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:

> Shaun, you cannot decide whether github is a barrier to entry FOR ME (or 
> anyone else), any more than you can decide whether or not my foot hurts. I'm 
> telling you github is NOT what I want to use. Period.
> 
> I'm actually thinking that a blog format would be nice. It could be pretty 
> (poetry and beauty go together). Poems tend to be short, so they'd make a 
> nice blog post. They could appear in the Planet blog roll. They could be 
> coded by author and topic. There could be comments! Even poems as comments! 
> The only down-side is managing users. Anyone have ideas on that?

Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive:

http://octopress.org/

-Ross.

> 
> kc
> 
> 
> On 2/20/13 8:20 AM, Shaun Ellis wrote:
>> > (As a general rule, for every programmer who prefers tool A, and says
>> > that everybody should use it, there’s a programmer who disparages tool
>> > A, and advocates tool B. So take what we say with a grain of salt!)
>> 
>> It doesn't matter what tools you use, as long as you and your team are able 
>> to participate easily, if you want to.  But if you want to attract  
>> contributions from a given development community, then choices should be 
>> balanced between the preferences of that community and what best serve the 
>> project.
>> 
>> From what I've been hearing, I think there is a lot of confusion about 
>> GitHub.  Heck, I am constantly learning about new GitHub features, APIs, and 
>> best practices myself. But I find it to be an incredibly powerful platform 
>> for moving open source, distributed software development forward.  I am not 
>> telling anyone to use GitHub if they don't want to, but I want to dispel a 
>> few myths I've heard recently:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * Myth #1 : GitHub creates a barrier to entry.
>> * "To contribute to a project on GitHub, you need to use the command-line. 
>> It's not for non-coders."
>> 
>> GitHub != git.  While GitHub was initially built for publishing and sharing 
>> code via integration with git, all GitHub functionality can be performed 
>> directly through the web gui.  In fact, GitHub can even be used as your sole 
>> coding environment. There are other tools in the "eco-system" that allow 
>> non-coders to contribute documentation, issue reporting, and more to a 
>> project.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * Myth #2 : GitHub is for sharing/publishing code.
>> * "I would be fun to have a wiki for more durable poetry (github 
>> unfortunately would be a barrier to many)."
>> 
>> GitHub can be used to collaborate on and publish other types of content as 
>> well.  For example, GitHub has a great wiki component* (as well as a website 
>> component).  In a number of ways, has less of a "barrier to entry" than our 
>> Code4Lib wiki.
>> 
>> While the path of least resistance requires a "repository" to have a wiki, 
>> public repos cost nothing and can consist of a simple "README" file.  The 
>> wiki can be locked down to a team, or it can be writable by anyone with a 
>> github account.  You don't need to do anything via command-line, don't need 
>> to understand "git-flow", and you don't even need to learn wiki markup to 
>> write content. All you need is an account and something to say, just like 
>> any wiki. Log in, go to the anti-harassment policy wiki, and see for 
>> yourself:
>> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/wiki
>> 
>> * The github wiki even has an API (via Gollum) that you can use to retrieve 
>> raw or formatted wiki content, write new content, and collect various meta 
>> data about the wiki as a whole:
>> https://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/wiki/_access
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * Myth #3 : GitHub is person-centric.
>> > "(And as a further aside, there’s plenty to dislike about github as
>> > well, from it’s person-centric view of projects (rather than
>> > team-centric)..."
>> 
>> Untrue. GitHub is very team centered when using organizational accounts, 
>> which formalize authorization controls for projects, among other things: 
>> https://github.com/blog/674-introducing-organizations
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> * Myth #4 : GitHub is monopolizing open source software development.
>> > "... to its unfortunate centralizing of so much free/open
>> > source software on one platform.)"
>> 
>> Convergence is not always a bad thing. GitHub provides a great, free service 
>> with lots of helpful collaboration tools beyond version control.  It's 
>> natural that people would flock there, despite having lots of other options.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Shaun
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/19/13 5:35 PM, Erik Hetzner wrote:
>>> At Sat, 16 Feb 2013 06:42:04 -0800,
>>> Karen Coyle wrote:
 
 gitHub may have excellent startup documentation, but that startup
 documentation describes git in programming terms mainly using *nx
 commands. If you have never had to use a version control system (e.g. if
 you do not write code, especially in 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Libraries Sharing Code: The List Making

[Ross Singer]

Hi Pat,

While I like the idea of this, I'm having a hard time seeing how this is
going to stay up to date or how it will be able to deal with growth, etc.

I mean, I'm not too familiar with Ohloh or Masterbranch or their ilk, but
it seems like it would make more sense to carve out a spot on a service
that aggregates this sort of information already.

Does anybody know of a service that would serve our purposes for at least
part of this?  So maybe a combination of 'institutions with a SCM
organizational repo' and then piggyback onto a service for keeping up with
the code/specific people/etc?

-Ross.


On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Patrick Berry  wrote:

> First, to the organizations doing this, thank you so much for sharing.  I'm
> sure I'm not the only person to notice the growth in code sharing,
> especially through Github.
>
> As we're associated with libraries, I thought it might be good to have a
> list, no matter how incomplete, of libraries sharing code.  As you might
> imagine Google searches for library or libraries tend be full of code
> libraries instead of Libraries with code.  Go figure...
>
> http://wiki.code4lib.org/index.php/Libraries_Sharing_Code
>
> As with all wiki pages, please do add what isn't there.  Unless it's links
> to cheap prescription pills or something.  Don't do that.
>
> I will admit that originally this page was titled "Libraries with Github
> Organizations" but I quickly realized that the first response would point
> out the painfully obvious fact that you can share code without Github.
>  Yes, I was aware of that before I started the page but I'll @blame jetlag
> and CST.
>
> Pat (the one from Chico)
>

Re: [CODE4LIB] Conference "all-timers?"

[Ross Singer]

On Feb 15, 2013, at 1:57 PM, "Michael B. Klein"  wrote:

> I'm an (n-2)-timer.
> 
You (n-2)-timing dog, you!

-Ross.

> 
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Andrew Nagy  wrote:
> 
>> Around where I was sitting - there was myself, Dan Chudnov and Karen
>> Coombs.
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Michael J. Giarlo <
>> leftw...@alumni.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Every year when hands shoot up in response to the question of "how many
>> of
>>> you have attended all code4lib conferences?", I neglect to note who's
>>> raising those hands.
>>> 
>>> Who are my fellow all-timers?
>>> 
>>> -Mike
>>> 
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Linked data [was: Why we need multiple discovery services engine?]

[Ross Singer]

On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:34 AM, Donna Campbell  wrote:

> In mentioning "pushing to break down silos more," it brings to mind a
> question I've had about linked data.
> 
> From what I've read thus far, the idea of breaking down silos of
> information seems like a good one in that it makes finding information
> easier but doesn't it also remove some of the markers of finding credible
> sources? Doesn't it blend accurate sources and inaccurate sources?

Provenance is especially important in this context, which I think is a crucial 
role that libraries can play.

-Ross.

> 
> 
> Donna R. Campbell
> Technical Services & Systems Librarian
> (215) 935-3872 (phone)
> (267) 295-3641 (fax)
> Mailing Address (via USPS):
> Westminster Theological Seminary Library
> P.O. Box 27009
> Philadelphia, PA 19118  USA
> Shipping Address (via UPS or FedEx):
> Westminster Theological Seminary Library
> 2960 W. Church Rd.
> Glenside, PA 19038  USA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Emily Lynema
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 9:56 AM
> To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
> Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Why we need multiple discovery services engine?
> 
> Here at NCSU, we use our locally-hosted Endeca service for our catalog
> and Serials
> Solutions Summon as an article search solution. Why do this?
> 
> 1. Our next-gen library catalog (Endeca) came first. This was before Solr
> hit
> the library world, and before library vendors started working on
> improving their bundled catalog apps. Our bundled catalog was terrible,
> and we
> wanted something better. This was back in the day when everyone was doing
> federated search for articles (think MetaLib).
> 
> 2. 4-5 years down the road, a number of vendors (Ebsco, Serials
> Solutions, etc.)
> were getting into the web scale discovery business. Aka, one big index
> that
> includes everything, in particular the citation content that libraries
> have
> historically not had local access to index / search. We bought Summon to
> solve the article search problem that federated searching never resolved
> for us. We wanted one access point for less experienced users who needed
> to
> find articles. Since we had backed away from federated search for
> articles,
> this was our big pain point; we already had a catalog we liked.
> 
> We've actually loaded our catalog content into Summon, as well. So why
> keep both?
> We've done a LOT of work adding functionality into our local catalog,
> including
> enhanced title searching,lots of supplemental content, a quite complex
> local requesting system. So we can't just switch to the Summon interface
> without some effort.
> 
> In addition, we have found that we prefer the "bento box" approach to
> searching across formats, as opposed to the integrated index approach
> of Summon.
> At least at this moment. We use this in the search across our library
> website [1]. It's just really, really hard to always surface the
> right kind of thing the user is looking for when the things you're
> indexing are
> different in nature (ex: bibliographic record vs. full-text of
> newspaper article). With the "bento box" approach, you have better
> opportunities to surface the different types of content available, while
> still having local systems optimized for specific content types.
> 
> Maybe that's a long-winded excuse for not pushing to break down silos
> more. Time
> will probably tell.
> 
> -emily
> 
> [1] http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/search/?q=java

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 25, 2013, at 11:01 AM, Becky Yoose  wrote:
> Here is your raw MARC record:
> 01105nmm  2200277Ia450001001300030006000130050017000190080041000
> 36040001300077096001300090049000900103245005200112256001900164260005
> 9001835160042002425380800028453800760036452900440521001300469520
> 01530048265000240063565000190065650001600678710003500694856009800729
> ^^ocm35003642^^OCoLC^^190108.0^^960628s1995caud
>   eng d^^  ^_aFQM^_cFQM^^  ^_aINTERNET^^ ^_a^^00^_aOphthalm
> ic Anesthesia Society^_h[computer file].^^  ^_aComputer data.^^ ^_aS
> an Diego, CA :^_bOphthalmic Anesthesia Society,^_c1995.^^  ^_aHtml t
> ext andimages in GIF and JPeg.^^  ^_aSystem requirements: Html brows
> er, JPeg compatiblebrowser or image viewer.^^  ^_aMode of access: In
> ternet. Host: www.iea.com/Mddans/OAS/oasM-vhomepage.html^^  ^_aTitle
> from title screen.^^  ^_aMedical.^^ ^_aHome page of the Ophthalmic
> Anesthesia Society with articles, references, e-mailaddresses of mem
> bers, pictures and ophthalmic anesthesia resources.^^2^_aSocieties,
> Medical.^^ 2^_aOphthalmology.^^ 2^_aAnesthesia.^^2 ^_aOphthalmic Ane
> sthesiaSociety.^^7^_uhttp://www.iea.com/Mddans/OAS/oasMvhomepage.htm
> l^_2http^_zOphthalmic Anesthesia Society home page^^^]01297nms

A+
NICE DETAIL!  WOULD COPY CATALOG FROM AGAIN!

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Group Decision Making (was Zoia)

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 24, 2013, at 6:50 PM, "Fitchett, Deborah" 
 wrote:

> People did raise specific issues with Zoia which can reasonably be fit into 
> the code of conduct's definition of harassment (many of which have therefore 
> been addressed) so saying "no one has spoken up" seems strange. People did 
> speak up. Some people listened and did something about it; some people 
> objected ~"You're spoiling our fun" and this kind of reaction is what has the 
> potential to make some people nervous about speaking up, because no-one wants 
> to spoil people's fun.

When we're talking about "you're spoiling our fun", are we talking about zoia's 
offensive plugins?

I don't think I've seen anybody leap to the defense of @mf or @forecast (or any 
of the others mentioned).  Some people have poured some of their craft beers on 
the ground for their fallen plugins, but I don't think anybody's actually come 
out and actively objected to cleaning up the bot's language.  In fact, on the 
contrary, I think people have been pretty proactive about looking for the 
things that need to be cleaned up and trying to archive what's there before 
cleansing.

I am not sure a defense of zoia is the same thing as a defense of @habla or 
@icp (as two examples).

If we're not talking about zoia anymore, then apologies,
-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Anybody using the Open Library APIs?

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 21, 2013, at 8:04 PM, David Fiander  wrote:
> The documentation for the APIs is weak, and it looks like it hasn't been
> updated for a while. Has anybody used them much, or know what the state of
> ongoing development of them is?

I am pretty sure that there is no ongoing development of Open Library.  Others 
may be able to provide more details.
> 
> All I'm really looking for at this point is a way to convert an ISBN into
> basic bibliographic data, and to find any related ISBNs, a la OCLC's xISBN
> service.

You can't do this via the API, because there's no way to search for work_id (at 
least none that I'm aware of).  I was running an xISBN clone with the OL data, 
but it stopped working when Talis shut down the Platform...

The dataset isn't that large, however.  It may be worthwhile to download it and 
create your own xisbn style services.  It might be even better to hack up 
something at Code4lib13 (or, elsewhere) to take the monthly dumps and create a 
similar service.  I imagine you're not alone in wanting this.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 18, 2013, at 11:03 AM, Ross Singer  wrote:
> 
> The offensive and/or annoying plugins don't serve any real purpose besides 
> entertainment value.  I would much rather cut them away (we've done it plenty 
> of times in the past: jive, markov, etc.) then ditch the bot altogether.

s/then/than/ # coffee

I need unit tests for my emails this morning, obviously.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:54 AM, Devon  wrote:

> Just because zoia has always been there (or panizzi) doesn't mean zoia
> ought to be there going forward. Karen's point I think deserves
> consideration. If zoia is in violation of the Code of Conduct, then
> remedial action is warranted. I think in this case, rather then getting rid
> of the bot, we can just remove the offending plugins.

To be fair (and I haven't had my coffee, yet), this is what I meant (and I was 
in the middle of another email trying to explain this more).

zoia is the product of nurture, not nature, so I agree.  /zoia/ isn't the 
problem, because having a bot in an active channel with a (fairly) stable 
community is a useful addition.

The offensive and/or annoying plugins don't serve any real purpose besides 
entertainment value.  I would much rather cut them away (we've done it plenty 
of times in the past: jive, markov, etc.) then ditch the bot altogether.

I guess that was what I was trying to get at.  Focus on the messages rather 
than the messenger :)

-Ross.
> 
> /dev
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Ross Singer  wrote:
> 
>> Karen, I don't think there's any way we could do that.  zoia is just
>> another participant in the channel, just like you or I would be, so it's
>> exactly like interacting with another person.
>> 
>> And one thing that I think is *somewhat* important to note before we give
>> zoia the bum's rush or something before the conference, it's worth pointing
>> out that zoia (and zoia's predecessor, panizzi) predates the conference
>> and, in fact, presented at the first one:
>> 
>> http://www.wallandbinkley.com/quaedam/2006/02_16_panizzi-speaks.html
>> 
>> I don't mind gagging some of the noisier plugins (or I really like the
>> idea of a @timeout plugin that shuts people off from zoia for a specified
>> time period), but zoia is a pretty central code4lib character.
>> 
>> Also, we generally ritually clear the karma database at the very end of
>> the conference, which would be weird if zoia wasn't invited.
>> 
>> -Ross.
>> 
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:
>> 
>>> Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going
>> to know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current
>> feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who
>> therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in.
>>> 
>>> Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may
>> seem new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users.
>>> 
>>> kc
>>> 
>>> On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote:
>>>> On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out?
>>>> 
>>>> If you say
>>>> 
>>>>   /ignore zoia all
>>>> 
>>>> your IRC client will ignore everything she says.  You still see what
>> other people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the
>> channel a lot clearer.
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Karen Coyle
>>> kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
>>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>>> skype: kcoylenet
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my GMail account.

Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference

[Ross Singer]

Karen, I don't think there's any way we could do that.  zoia is just another 
participant in the channel, just like you or I would be, so it's exactly like 
interacting with another person.

And one thing that I think is *somewhat* important to note before we give zoia 
the bum's rush or something before the conference, it's worth pointing out that 
zoia (and zoia's predecessor, panizzi) predates the conference and, in fact, 
presented at the first one:

http://www.wallandbinkley.com/quaedam/2006/02_16_panizzi-speaks.html

I don't mind gagging some of the noisier plugins (or I really like the idea of 
a @timeout plugin that shuts people off from zoia for a specified time period), 
but zoia is a pretty central code4lib character.

Also, we generally ritually clear the karma database at the very end of the 
conference, which would be weird if zoia wasn't invited.

-Ross.

On Jan 18, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Karen Coyle  wrote:

> Bill, I realize that. That's opt-out, and anyone new to IRC is not going to 
> know that. So I am asking for the opposite, which may not be a current 
> feature of IRC, but that those who wish to see Zoia's replies (and who 
> therefore know about Zoia) should opt-in.
> 
> Another option is a separate channel for the conference, but that may seem 
> new and foreign to everyone, not just to new users.
> 
> kc
> 
> On 1/17/13 9:50 PM, William Denton wrote:
>> On 17 January 2013, Karen Coyle wrote:
>> 
>>> Is another possibility is for Zoia to be opt-in rather than opt-out?
>> 
>> If you say
>> 
>>/ignore zoia all
>> 
>> your IRC client will ignore everything she says.  You still see what other 
>> people say to her, which is a bit odd, but it really makes the channel a lot 
>> clearer.
>> 
>> Bill
> 
> -- 
> Karen Coyle
> kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
> ph: 1-510-540-7596
> m: 1-510-435-8234
> skype: kcoylenet

Re: [CODE4LIB] A gentle proposal: slim down zoia during the conference

[Ross Singer]

I'd be loathe to gag @tdih, because it's educational and only gets called once 
or twice a day, but that's me.

@blockparty is pretty spammy, as is @alpha

Also @urbandict is probably the most offensive command.

-Ross.

On Jan 17, 2013, at 3:12 PM, Adam Wead  wrote:

> At the risk of opening a can 'o worms, there are others that utilize the 
> invective:
> 
> @habla
> @ana
> 
> @ana can sometimes return offensive phrases.  Sadly, it's one of the 
> channel's favorites, so I'm reluctant to put it on the (temporary) chopping 
> block.
> 
> …adam
> 
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 2:35 PM, Bill Dueber  wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to propose that zoia (the IRC bot that provides help and
>> entertainment in the #code4lib IRC channel) have some of its normal plugins
>> disabled during conf. With three or four times as many people online during
>> conference, things can get out of hand.
>> 
>> Lots of zoia plugins can be useful during conference; I'm mostly thinking
>> of stuff whose utility is suspect and whose output covers several lines.
>> Some examples:
>> 
>>  - @mf
>>  - @cast
>>  - @tdih
>>  - @sing
>> 
>> The goal, really, is to try and turn the firehose that the IRC channel
>> becomes into something at least plausibly manageable in realtime.
>> 
>> I can also make a case for things that newbies will just find confusing
>> (chef, takify, etc.) or offensive (@forecast, @mf again) but I'll let
>> others potentially make that case.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Bill-
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Bill Dueber
>> Library Systems Programmer
>> University of Michigan Library
> 
> This communication is a confidential and proprietary business communication. 
> It is intended solely for the use of the designated recipient(s). If this 
> communication is received in error, please contact the sender and delete this 
> communication.

Re: [CODE4LIB] T-Shirt voting is now open!

[Ross Singer]

On Jan 7, 2013, at 7:25 AM, MJ Ray  wrote:

> dre wrote:
>> There's a sign-in button at the upper right of the voting page. This uses
>> your code4lib.org username and password (not your wiki user/pass).
>> 
>> Once you're logged in you should see the voting options.
> 
> Thanks for the email.  Now I've got a code4lib.org username, I tried
> to log in.  I had to enable javascript to get the vote site to work at all.
> It should at least mention that (fortunately, my organisation lets me
> enable javascript for specific sites) and ideally it should be allowed
> to vote without it, because some libraries are really locked down.

I am skeptical of this claim.

In 2013, if organizations are disabling javascript, tremendous parts of the web 
are broken for them.

That said, the diebold-o-tron is FLOSS 
(http://code.google.com/p/conferencekeeper/source/checkout - currently running 
from the 'diebold' branch), so patches welcome if you have the inclination to 
submit a non-js dependent version.

-Ross.
> 
> Regards,
> -- 
> MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.
> http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
> In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
> Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/

Re: [CODE4LIB] Question abt the code4libwomen idea

[Ross Singer]

Joshua, I don't think there is anything I can really add to what you've, in
my mind, summed up perfectly.

Six years ago, after a regrettable incident of insensitivity that I was
directly involved in [1], we had a similar period of reflection and
discussion about the culture we wanted to foster here.  Roy said something
at the time that has stuck with me, "the group that is the dominant
majority cannot understand what it's like to be an underrepresented
minority and therefore cannot dictate how they integrate into your group".
 Or something.  I'm paraphrasing, it was 6 years ago or so, after all.
 Anyway, the point is, it's not up to you to determine how other people
should feel about something if you want to include them in your community.

So, while, like Joshua says, it stings that we apparently haven't come far
enough that we don't need, as Bohyun called them, IGs, who are we to object
if that's what makes the place more welcoming (which, really, should be the
goal)?

-Ross.
1. I won't go into detail, but it's a source of shame and guilt and
something I've regretted since it happened. But it did happen and I own it.
Ultimately, however, it had the positive effect of both changing me and,
more importantly, was the catalyst for making Code4lib a far more inviting
place, which gives me hope -- applied toward the tech community at large --
for the redemptive quality of humanity when it has the will to do so.


On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Joshua Gomez  wrote:

> The past week or so I've been struggling to understand the reason for the
> strong opinions against a women's support group as a subbranch of code4lib
> or as an external entity. One argument is the reverse discrimination
> argument.  I'm not sure how many have actually been making this argument
> but it has definitely been made by some. I have little sympathy for this
> argument. Perhaps it makes logical sense when the situation is looked at in
> a very narrow perspective, but in the larger view which takes account of
> social context and history, it loses validity. And I don't think that
> reverse discrimination is the true concern of most of those that have
> voiced opinions against a sub-community for women (at least I hope not).
>
> Others have mentioned they fear that a subgroup will only decrease the
> diversity within code4lib by pulling women away from it and into the new
> group.  This was my initial concern as well, but when I look at other kinds
> of women in tech groups I realize that they don't decrease women's
> participation in mainstream groups. In fact they help boost women's
> profiles and skill sets, thus increasing their likelihood of participating
> in mainstream groups.
>
> I may be way off base here, but I think there is also something else going
> on besides those first two concerns. I think there is also a collective
> fear of shame and failure.  I think many of the white males in this
> community truly are sensitive to issues of equality and they want to show
> their support by making code4lib a place known for supporting diversity and
> equality. When a group which feels treated as less than equals creates a
> support group for themselves that creates public shame for the original
> group for failing to achieve its goals of equality. What's more, the idea
> of a splinter group came so soon on the heels of the original thread about
> the anti-harassment policy. The policy suggestion received a very large and
> very immediate showing of support from the community. So splintering now
> just as the community is showing what it can do to support diversity and
> equality is particularly frustrating.
>
> I can sympathize with those feelings.  But perhaps the support shown last
> week was simply too little too late. Especially considering that there are
> those still  pressing the first argument mentioned and making the situation
> uncomfortable. And since I am not a member of the group that has been
> discriminated against I don't think I or anyone else not in that group
> should try to dissuade them from doing what is in their best interest.
>
> Joshua Gomez
> Digital Library Programmer Analyst
> George Washington University Libraries
> 2130 H St, NW Washington, DC 20052
> (202) 994-8267
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Karen Coyle  wrote:
>
> > I'm all for people creating new social structures to move themselves
> > forward doing it however they see fit. The internet is a big place, and
> > there's room for more. In this case, though, I hope it will be an "and"
> > operation, not an exclusive "or". I would be happy to hear that a new
> group
> > formed and that it's going well. I would be disappointed if people in
> that
> > group ended up moving away from this one big group. It happens, and I'd
> get
> > over it, sure, but it'd still be disappointing. We gain something by
> > gathering together like we have here. It's not exclusive, nor should it
> be.
> > But code4lib has added so much to me and my work that I kno

Re: [CODE4LIB] Gender Survey Summary and Results

[Ross Singer]

Right, what I'm saying is that this survey is subject to "response bias" 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Response_bias - "It also occurs in situations of 
voluntary response, such as phone-in polls, where the people who care enough to 
call are not necessarily a statistically representative sample of the actual 
population"), which doesn't render it irrelevant, it just can't, by itself, be 
declared representative of the non-participating community's demographics.

My point here isn't that it's not representative, it's that we can't know 
because the subject matter of the survey (which is about gender inequality, 
esp. among females) inherently produces statistical bias.

-Ross.

On Dec 5, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Jonathan Rochkind  wrote:

> Hmm, it's quite possible you know more about statistics than me, but...
> 
> Usually equations for calculating confidence level are based on the 
> assumption of a random sample, not a volunteering self-selected sample.
> 
> If you have a self-selected sample, then the equations for "how likely is 
> this to be a fluke" are only accurate if your self-selected sample is 
> representative; and there aren't really any equations that can tell you how 
> likely your self-selected sample is to be representative, it depends on the 
> circumstances (which is why for the statistical equations to be completely 
> valid, you need a random sample).
> 
> Is my understanding.
> 
> On 12/5/2012 2:18 PM, Rosalyn Metz wrote:
>> Ross,
>> 
>> I totally get what you're saying, I thought of all of that too, but
>> according to everything I was reading through, the likelihood that the
>> survey's results are a fluke is extremely low.  Its actually the reason I
>> put information in the write up about the sample size (378), population
>> size (2,250), response rate (16.8%), confidence level (95%), and confidence
>> interval (+/- 4.6%).
>> 
>> Rosalyn
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Ross Singer  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks, Rosalyn for setting this up and compiling the results!
>>> 
>>> While it doesn't change my default position, "yes we need more diversity
>>> among Code4lib presenters!", I'm not sure, statistically speaking, that you
>>> can draw the conclusions you have based on the sample size, especially
>>> given the survey's topic (note, I am not saying that women aren't
>>> underrepresented in the Code4lib program).
>>> 
>>> If 83% of the mailing didn't respond, we simply know nothing about their
>>> demographics.  They could be 95% male, they could be 99% female, we have no
>>> idea.  I think it is safe to say that the breakdown of the 16% is probably
>>> biased towards females simply given the subject matter and the dialogue
>>> that surrounded it.  We simply cannot project that the mailing list is
>>> 57/42 from this, I don't think.
>>> 
>>> What is interesting, however, is that the number roughly corresponds to
>>> the number of seats in the conference.  I think it would be interesting to
>>> see how this compares to the gender breakdown at the conference.
>>> 
>>> This doesn't diminish how awesome it is that you put this together,
>>> though.  Thanks, again to you and Karen!
>>> -Ross.
>>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Rosalyn Metz  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Friends,
>>>> 
>>>> I put together the data and a summary for the gender survey.  Now that
>>>> conference and hotel registration has subsided, it's a perfect time for
>>> you
>>>> to kick back and read through.
>>>> 
>>>> [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
>>>> Data<
>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqfFxMd8RTVhdFVQSWlPaFJ2UTh1Nmo0akNhZlVDTlE
>>>> 
>>>> Gender Survey Data is the raw data for the survey.  Not very interesting,
>>>> but you can use it to view my Pivot Tables and charts.
>>>> 
>>>> [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
>>>> Summary<
>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hbofh63-5F9MWEk8y8C83heOkNodttASWF5juqGLQ1E/edit
>>>> 
>>>> Gender Survey Summary is easy to read version of the above -- its the
>>>> summary I wrote about the results.  Included is a brief intro, charts
>>> (from
>>>> above), and a summary of the results.
>>>> 
>>>> Let the discussion begin,
>>>> Rosalyn
>>>> 
>>>> P.S. Much thanks to Karen Coyle for reviewing the summary for me before I
>>>> sent it out.  Also if there are any typos or grammar mistakes, please
>>> blame
>>>> my friend Abigail who behaved as my editor.
>>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [CODE4LIB] Gender Survey Summary and Results

[Ross Singer]

Thanks, Rosalyn for setting this up and compiling the results!

While it doesn't change my default position, "yes we need more diversity among 
Code4lib presenters!", I'm not sure, statistically speaking, that you can draw 
the conclusions you have based on the sample size, especially given the 
survey's topic (note, I am not saying that women aren't underrepresented in the 
Code4lib program).

If 83% of the mailing didn't respond, we simply know nothing about their 
demographics.  They could be 95% male, they could be 99% female, we have no 
idea.  I think it is safe to say that the breakdown of the 16% is probably 
biased towards females simply given the subject matter and the dialogue that 
surrounded it.  We simply cannot project that the mailing list is 57/42 from 
this, I don't think.

What is interesting, however, is that the number roughly corresponds to the 
number of seats in the conference.  I think it would be interesting to see how 
this compares to the gender breakdown at the conference.

This doesn't diminish how awesome it is that you put this together, though.  
Thanks, again to you and Karen!
-Ross.
On Dec 5, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Rosalyn Metz  wrote:

> Hi Friends,
> 
> I put together the data and a summary for the gender survey.  Now that
> conference and hotel registration has subsided, it's a perfect time for you
> to kick back and read through.
> 
> [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
> Data
> Gender Survey Data is the raw data for the survey.  Not very interesting,
> but you can use it to view my Pivot Tables and charts.
> 
> [Code4Lib] Gender Survey
> Summary
> Gender Survey Summary is easy to read version of the above -- its the
> summary I wrote about the results.  Included is a brief intro, charts (from
> above), and a summary of the results.
> 
> Let the discussion begin,
> Rosalyn
> 
> P.S. Much thanks to Karen Coyle for reviewing the summary for me before I
> sent it out.  Also if there are any typos or grammar mistakes, please blame
> my friend Abigail who behaved as my editor.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Help with WordPress for Code4Lib Journal

[Ross Singer]

On Dec 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, Jonathan Rochkind  wrote:

> While I agree with ross in general about suggesting technical solutions 
> without suggesting how they are going to be maintained -- agree very strongly 
> -- and would further re-emphasize that it's improtant to remember that ALL 
> software installations are "living organisms" (Ranganthan represent!), and 
> need ongoing labor not just initial install labor
> 
> I don't agree with the conclusion that the _only_ way to do this is with a 
> "central organization" or "my organization which has shown
> commitment through z"
> 
> I think it IS possible to run things sustainably with volunteer decentralized 
> not-formal-organization labor.
> 
> But my experience shows that it _isn't_ likely to work with ONE PERSON 
> volunteering.  It IS more likely to work with an actual defined collective, 
> which feels collective responsibility for replacing individual members when 
> they leave and maintaining it's collective persistence.

FWIW, this is more what I meant (although stated much better).  That is, a 
clearly defined plan, with a group that is dedicated to the ongoing maintenance 
of said plan.

The journal is a good example of this.

On the other hand, a non-distributed approach (see: OSU's commitment with 
Drupal and Mediawiki) is also fine, as long as the institutional commitment is 
there.

-Ross.

Re: [CODE4LIB] Help with WordPress for Code4Lib Journal

[Ross Singer]

Shaun, I think you missed my point.

Our Drupal (and per Tom's reply, Wordpress -- ...and I'm going to take a stab 
in the dark and throw MediaWiki instance into the pile) is, for all intents and 
purposes, unmaintained because we have no in charge of maintaining it.  Oregon 
State hosts it, but that's it.

Every year, every year, somebody proposes we ditch the diebold-o-tron for 
"something else" (Drupal modules, mediawiki plugins, OCS, ... and most recently 
Easy Chair), yet nobody has ever bothered to do anything besides send an email 
of what we should use instead.  Because that requires work and commitment.

What I'm saying is, we don't have any central organization, and thus we have no 
real sustainable way to implement locally hosted services.  The Drupal 
instance, the diebold-o-tron (and maybe Mediawiki) are legacies from when 
several of us ran a shared server in a colocation facility.  We had skin in the 
game.  And then our server got hacked because Drupal was unpatched (which 
sucked) and we realized we probably needed to take this a little more seriously.

The problem was, though, when we moved to OSU for our hosting, we lost any 
power to do anything for ourselves and since we no longer had to (nor could) 
maintain anything, all impetus to do so was lost.

To be clear, when we ran all these services on anvil, that wasn't sustainable 
either!  We simply don't have the the organization or resources to effectively 
run this stuff by ourselves.  That's why I'm really not interested in hearing 
about some x we can run for y if it's not backed up with "and my organization 
which has shown commitment through z will take on the task of doing all the 
work on this".

-Ross.

On Dec 4, 2012, at 10:41 AM, Shaun Ellis  wrote:

> Tom, can you post the plugin to Code4Lib's github so we can have a crack at 
> it?
> 
> Ross, I'm not sure how many folks on this list were aware of the Drupal 
> upgrade troubles.  Regardless, I don't think it's constructive to put new 
> ideas on halt until it gets done.  Not everyone's a Drupal developer, but 
> they could contribute in other ways.
> 
> -Shaun
> 
> On 12/4/12 10:27 AM, Tom Keays wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Ross Singer  wrote:
>> 
>>> Seriously, folks, if we can't even figure out how to upgrade our Drupal
>>> instance to a version that was released this decade, we shouldn't be
>>> discussing *new* implementations of *anything* that we have to host
>>> ourselves.
>>> 
>> 
>> Not being one to waste a perfectly good segue...
>> 
>> The Code4Lib Journal runs on WordPress. This was a decision made by the
>> editorial board at the time (2007) and by and large it was a good one. Over
>> time, one of the board members offered his technical expertise to build a
>> few custom plugins that would streamline the workflow for publishing the
>> journal. Out of the "box", WordPress is designed to publish a string of
>> individual articles, but we wanted to publish issues in a more traditional
>> model, with all the issues published at one time and arranged in the issue
>> is a specific order. We could (and have done) all this manually, but having
>> the plugin has been a real boon for us.
>> 
>> The Issue Manager plugin that he wrote provided the mechanism for:
>> a) preventing articles from being published prematurely,
>> b) identifying and arranging a set of final (pending) articles into an
>> issue, and
>> c) publishing that issue at the desired time.
>> 
>> That person is no longer on the Journal editorial board and upkeep of the
>> plugin has not been maintained since he left. We're now several
>> WordPress releases
>> behind, mainly because we delayed upgrading until we could test if doing so
>> would break the plugins. We have now tested, and it did. I won't bore you
>> with the details, but if we want to continue using the plugin to manage our
>> workflow, we need help.
>> 
>> Is there anybody out there with experience writing WordPress plugins that
>> would be willing to work with me to diagnose what has changed in the
>> WordPress codex that is causing the problems and maybe help me understand
>> how to prevent this from happening again with future releases?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Keays / tomke...@gmail.com
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Shaun D. Ellis
> Digital Library Interface Developer
> Firestone Library, Princeton University
> voice: 609.258.1698 | sha...@princeton.edu