Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-28 Thread John Fereira
Edward Iglesias wrote: Thanks to all of you who answered. Crowdsourcing does work if you pick the right crowd. We have been looking at the S3 possibility but I agree this would have to be a second copy. There been lots of talk about hardware platorms but not much about software to manage a

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-28 Thread Tim McGeary
Related to our discussion: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125139942345664387.html I particularly like the quote at the end: "Digital information lasts forever -- or five years," says RAND Corp. computer analyst Jeff Rothenberg, "whichever comes first." Tim McGeary Team Leader, Library Techno

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-28 Thread Edward Iglesias
Thanks to all of you who answered. Crowdsourcing does work if you pick the right crowd. We have been looking at the S3 possibility but I agree this would have to be a second copy. The policy and institutional support comments from my tokayo see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tocayo seem especia

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward M. Corrado
Joe Atzberger wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Edward M. Corrado wrote: Nate Vack wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Ryan Ordway wrote: $213,360 over 3 years If you're ONLY looking at storage costs, SATA drives in enterprise RAID systems rang

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Joe Atzberger
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Edward M. Corrado wrote: > Nate Vack wrote: > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Ryan Ordway >> wrote: >> >> >>> $213,360 over 3 years >>> >>> >> If you're ONLY looking at storage costs, SATA drives in enterprise RAID >>> systems range from about $1.00/GB to abou

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Nate Vack
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Edward M. Corrado wrote: > Yes, maybe you save on staff time patching software on your storage array, > but that is not a significant amount of time - esp. since you are still > going to have some local storage, and there isn't much difference in staff > time in do

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Dwiggins David
I've been pondering this a lot lately. We're starting from the ground up on a concerted digital asset management effort after years of one-off solutions. When I arrived, I inherited piles of CDs and DVDs, things stashed on servers all over the place, etc. I am now implementing a digital asset

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward M. Corrado
Nate Vack wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Ryan Ordway wrote: $213,360 over 3 years If you're ONLY looking at storage costs, SATA drives in enterprise RAID systems range from about $1.00/GB to about $1.25/GB for online storage. Yeah -- but if you're looking only at s

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Nate Vack
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Ryan Ordway wrote: > $213,360 over 3 years > If you're ONLY looking at storage costs, SATA drives in enterprise RAID > systems range from about $1.00/GB to about $1.25/GB for online storage. Yeah -- but if you're looking only at storage costs, you'll have an inac

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Joe Hourcle
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Jimmy Ghaphery wrote: We have a historic idea of what it means to maintain space for analog collections. For many institutions a lot of that initial funding has come from capital building funds. While the technological solutions are not clear to me at this point (and I'm b

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Ryan Ordway
On Aug 27, 2009, at 6:22 AM, Rosalyn Metz wrote: Might I suggest you look into cloud computing services if you're looking at different options. (I know you're all shocked I suggested it). If our budget weren't so abysmal (and going to get worse) we would be using it right now rather than the

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Jimmy Ghaphery
yep, good points, agree all 'round. One thing in the analog world that may be appropriate is that we do not view all collections as equal. In kicking this around locally we've been discussing different levels (or insurance policies) per collection depending on things like how unique it is, bor

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Kyle Banerjee
> Has anyone been able to give a projection to their management on what the > total cost per TB is for preservation over even a short horizon of 10 years? The trick is that the cost varies drastically with the model employed. Preservation is insurance, plain and simple. If you buy more coverage,

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Kyle Banerjee
This would require multiple cases. But if they were distributed to different points, the chances of losing them all would be reduced... On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:35 AM, David J. Fiander wrote: > You know, putting Dick Cheney is a pelican case might have solved a lot of > problems later on. > > -

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Jimmy Ghaphery
We have a historic idea of what it means to maintain space for analog collections. For many institutions a lot of that initial funding has come from capital building funds. While the technological solutions are not clear to me at this point (and I'm benefiting from this thread on that), I am no

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread David J. Fiander
You know, putting Dick Cheney is a pelican case might have solved a lot of problems later on. - David On 27-Aug-2009, at 13:30 , Rosalyn Metz wrote: ah good. then we are agreeing. strike the whole disagree with ed portion of my email. also i like the pelican idea too. it reminds me of

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Rosalyn Metz
ah good. then we are agreeing. strike the whole disagree with ed portion of my email. also i like the pelican idea too. it reminds me of dick cheney in an undisclosed location. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Edward M. Corrado wrote: > Hi Roslyn, > > I probably wasn't clear I didn't mean

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward M. Corrado
Hi Roslyn, I probably wasn't clear I didn't mean to say don't use cloud storage if you think it is a good solution, in many cases it could be. I meant that if you really want to preserve your data you need to do more than put it in the cloud (or for that matter on a local storage device).

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Jason Griffey
ExactlyI brought up LOCKSS in my first reply, ONLY to use the "lots of copies" line. Not suggesting that it's a backup solution. Other than lots of copies is a backup solution. See how straightforward that is? *sigh* I like the media-in-pelican-cases solution. Jason On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Mark Jordan
Hi Kyle, - "Kyle Banerjee" wrote: > LOCKSS is good for protecting articles since that is what it is > designed to do. For a variety of reasons that go beyond cost, I think > it's a hopeless model for backup. > Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that LOCKSS is for backup, in its PLN form

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Kyle Banerjee
Yes I did, and I think this a welcome addition. The charges ($80 media fee plus about $2.50 per data loading hour with eSATA and USB 2 interfaces supported) strike me as reasonable. For applications where you want the data to be readily accessible, I think this is a good option, though I think ina

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Rosalyn Metz
Actually Kyle did you see that you can now put your stuff on a drive, snail mail it to Amazon and they will upload it to an S3 instance for you. Bandwith problem "solved". On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Kyle Banerjee wrote: > Agreed on both of Rosalyn's points. > > I'm wary of the hot backup o

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Kyle Banerjee
Agreed on both of Rosalyn's points. I'm wary of the hot backup options discussed in this thread for large quantities of data. First of all, hot backup is expensive -- disks aren't that inexpensive, and after you add power and space, it gets much worse. Start keeping many copies, and the price gets

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Rosalyn Metz
I have to agree with Ed. You should have a good policy in place for backing up your data. Just throwing it on a server isn't a policy. At the same time I would have to disagree with Ed. You should look at S3 as if it was your own server. What is the guarantee that you supply to your users with

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Joe Hourcle
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009, Edward Iglesias wrote: As I was trying to figure out what to do with half a terabyte of archival TIFFS it occurred to me that perhaps someone else had this problem. We are starting to produce massive amounts of digital objects (videos, archival TIFFS, audio interviews). Up

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Custer, Mark
9:59 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage The basic idea of LOCKSS is always what I think of when it comes to archival: lots of copies. For my own personal archival stuff, I do use a Drobo...and have recommended that we get one of the new Drobo Pros for use here i

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Mark Jordan
- "Jason Griffey" wrote: > The basic idea of LOCKSS is always what I think of when it comes to > archival: lots of copies. We're starting to use LOCKSS, in the form of a consortial Private LOCKSS Network (PLN), and it is proving to be useful. I'll be presenting on what we're doing at Acce

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Jason Griffey
The basic idea of LOCKSS is always what I think of when it comes to archival: lots of copies. For my own personal archival stuff, I do use a Drobo...and have recommended that we get one of the new Drobo Pros for use here in the library. But not for archival, just for storage. For things that I real

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward M. Corrado
Rosalyn's post made me think of one more thing if you are looking into outside entities (such as we are), what are the terms of service and what guarantee do they offer they won't lose your data? I believe that A3 does not offer any guarantee, so if you go with them, you probably want to h

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward M. Corrado
I think you probably need to come up with a long term plan with real institutional commitment. Storing files and making sure they are backed up is all well and good, but that is only one part of a long term digital preservation project. How are you protecting against bit rot? what about formats

Re: [CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Rosalyn Metz
Hi Edward, Might I suggest you look into cloud computing services if you're looking at different options. (I know you're all shocked I suggested it). If our budget weren't so abysmal (and going to get worse) we would be using it right now rather than the snap server we purchased with leftover fun

[CODE4LIB] digital storage

2009-08-27 Thread Edward Iglesias
As I was trying to figure out what to do with half a terabyte of archival TIFFS it occurred to me that perhaps someone else had this problem. We are starting to produce massive amounts of digital objects (videos, archival TIFFS, audio interviews). Up until now we have been dealing with ways to di