Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Ken, I am not sure if this was suggested. I used this Perl project a while back http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysitemaker/?abmode=1 It seems to meet all your needs. regards, ./fxk
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Casey: I think it's extremely hard to appreciate both the advantages and disadvantages of a framework if you haven't done a bunch of stuff both with and without one. ... Tim can be at least as productive writing PHP by hand as I can using Django, but most of us can't be Tim. Most of us need to exploit every unfair advantage and shortcut we can find. I won't disagree with Casey. We see it from different angles, but Casey has more experience at both ends of the problem, and an informed, balancing approach is best anyway. Much depends on exactly what you're doing and what resources you can call on—not to mention what you're used to. Mutatis mutandis you're trading application speed and for coding speed, with arguments on both sides as far as scalability. Since application speed is just not an issue for most of what most people do these days, gaining developer-coding speed is a good trade. I see errors in both directions. There are some CRUD pieces to LibraryThing that took *way* too much time to do because we did them all by hand. Casey's introduction of a Django framework there was very smart. At the same time, I think Twitter got stuck in RoR. When a web application is so extremely simple--it does basically one thing!--you might as well write that as close to the machine as possible. Tim
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Define understand SQL. I can't help but be concerned about the adage knows just enough to be dangerous. I've seen some systems brought to their knees in terms of performance as a result of a couple of poorly constructed queries. The irony is that it's easy to do this in some simplified SQL database interfaces. (I know, I've done it.) Having gone through the baby-interface-graduate-to-real-thing process, all I can say for the starter interfaces is that they make it a tinier bit easier to construct some very basic queries, but quickly get frustrating, particularly if you're trying to figure out *why* you brought a system (even a test system) to its knees. These systems are generally bespoke, so you can't crack open a book to understand their special dumbed-down language. The junior interface I worked with several years ago had a free-entry box where developers pasted free-form queries more advanced than the guided interface could support. I learned a lot from reading those queries and tweaking them to do new things (with a copy of that fat MySQL book in my lap as I worked). Even if I brought the (test) system to its knees, at least I had the means to reverse-engineer my error. Karen G. Schneider
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, Tim Spalding wrote: I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. This might be okay with SELECT*, but I'm not so sure about giving users unfamiliar with SQL access to DELETE and UPDATE, which seemed to be part of the original request. All it takes is one user forgetting a WHERE clause or mixing up a column as part of a condition, and the UPDATE corrupts the whole system. Hell, I've even done it myself. And I've found out the hard way that using MS Access to access MySQL via ODBC that the 'queries' are NOT materialized views, as I had been informed by my boss, and had to recover from the previous night's backup and manually apply all of that day's records. ... * SELECT isn't always safe, either. When they're badly written (use the wrong indices or the wrong type of join) they can start causing performance issues for everything else using the database as they consume cpu and memory or cause unnecessary disk IO. - Joe Hourcle
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
The Django framework's Administration interface is pretty good for doing quick database work, and it's highly customizable. It also does very basic database introspection on existing databases to help get you set up. -Andrew On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Ken Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shawn Boyette ☠ wrote: I don't think he was asking about *programmers* creating or modifying *schema*. It's true -- I just want a simple little data entry tool (which I've got now! That was easy.) I've been doing all of my development by hand, without the luxury of frameworks, not out of any programmerly virtue, but just out of simplicity -- ie, I've not taken the time to learn about frameworks. It sure would be nice to take the time at some point, and I'll keep Tim's injunctions about abstraction in mind when I do. *thanks and joy* Ken On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Tim Spalding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic, low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience, frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience. For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This stuff adds up fast. Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits and demerits. Tim -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Hi All, It ain't free, but there's a lovely client for mysql called navicat (http://www.navicat.com/) that we've been using. And even though I *can* do command line queries, gotta say I love pulling lines between tables to set them up. It's not too expensive and I find that for light to medium weight stuff it's fun and easy to use. -t On Wed, 30 Jul 2008, Eric Lease Morgan wrote: On Jul 30, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Cloutman, David wrote: Perhaps you should put together some MySQL training materials for librarians. A webinar, perhaps. I'd love it if my colleagues had those skills. I don't think there is that much interest, but I could be wrong. There are at least 101 ways enterprise level database skills could be put to work in my library. I'm pretty sick of our core technical solutions being Excel spreadsheets and the occasional Access database. Blech. Tell me about it, and besides, basic SQL is not any more difficult than CCL. SELECT this FROM that WHERE field LIKE %foo% Moreover, IMHO, relational databases are the technological bread butter of librarianship these days. Blissful ignorance does the profession little good. -- Eric Lease Morgan Hesburgh Libraries, University of Notre Dame
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
It bears repeating that many library standards, notably MARC, are essentially non-relational and non-normalized. Fully normalized relational databases aren't an obvious idea if you're never been exposed to them—and something like a religious revelation once you have. Whether or not SQL is a useful skill for librarians and library staff, the meme is worth spreading. Maybe we could put it in the water. T On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Eric Lease Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 30, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Cloutman, David wrote: Perhaps you should put together some MySQL training materials for librarians. A webinar, perhaps. I'd love it if my colleagues had those skills. I don't think there is that much interest, but I could be wrong. There are at least 101 ways enterprise level database skills could be put to work in my library. I'm pretty sick of our core technical solutions being Excel spreadsheets and the occasional Access database. Blech. Tell me about it, and besides, basic SQL is not any more difficult than CCL. SELECT this FROM that WHERE field LIKE %foo% Moreover, IMHO, relational databases are the technological bread butter of librarianship these days. Blissful ignorance does the profession little good. -- Eric Lease Morgan Hesburgh Libraries, University of Notre Dame -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
We use an ODBC link as we can control the rights at the MySQL level like Tobin mentions below Susan Tobin Cataldo wrote: We have been using MS Access linked through MyODBC. The user's rights are according to the permissions in the MySQL user table. Tobin Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
That's definitely true. One cartesian query can ruin your day... On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 1:22 PM, John Fereira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tim Spalding wrote: I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. Define understand SQL. I can't help but be concerned about the adage knows just enough to be dangerous. I've seen some systems brought to their knees in terms of performance as a result of a couple of poorly constructed queries. -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Despite their repeated pleadings, I just can't afford to let my colleagues learn SQL, Tim. I have to take every opportunity to hide the knowledge from them. I've found that developing simple, easy-to-use front-ends to complex internal systems here in the library is a good way to keep them dumb and happy. These library school loans are not going to pay off themselves, so I figure as long as I can shroud the command-line utopia from their sight, I'll be relatively safe. Once they start picking up on the joy of SQL -- and I pray that day never comes -- I will be out on the street. Alex Tim Spalding wrote: That reminds me of a better idea. Let's keep a real understanding of computers from less-techy colleagues at the library. That way no messy learning or understanding will take place, and we'll always be needed. Then we could start wearing white colors... T On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Alex Dolski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That reminds me of an idea for a photo sharing website I had, tentatively called LeftOutrJoinr. It would be like Flickr, but instead of pictures everywhere, visitors would be given a command line into which they would be able to enter their own SQL queries to call up photos to appear on the page via AJAX. I see it becoming quite popular among 3-5 people. Alex Tim Spalding wrote: I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Tim McGeary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Webmin. http://www.webmin.com/ It gives me a GUI for all of my vital sysadmin needs that I can't remember how to do at the shell. It has a MySQL GUI interface that works very well. And you can setup user accounts to have access to certain parts of Webmin, like just MySQL. Easy RPM install, and inside Webmin is an app to upgrade itself. Can also install Perl modules, edit your php.ini file, etc. Cheers, Tim Tim McGeary Senior Systems Specialist Lehigh University 610-758-4998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Google Talk: timmcgeary Yahoo IM: timmcgeary Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Alex A. Dolski Web Digitization Application Developer Lied Library, University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457041 Las Vegas, NV 89154-7041 (702) 895-2225 (phone) / (702) 895-2280 (fax) -- Alex A. Dolski Web Digitization Application Developer Lied Library, University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457041 Las Vegas, NV 89154-7041 (702) 895-2225 (phone) / (702) 895-2280 (fax)
[CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
I was in a similar situation and I just used CodeIgniter's scaffolding (http://codeigniter.com/user_guide/general/scaffolding.html ) feature to allow my users to add/edit data. It's pretty safe, and it looks neat and clean, too. Sean Hannan Web Developer, Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University Ken Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/08 9:35 AM Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less- techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non- admin- types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
We have been using MS Access linked through MyODBC. The user's rights are according to the permissions in the MySQL user table. Tobin Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Tim McGeary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Webmin. http://www.webmin.com/ It gives me a GUI for all of my vital sysadmin needs that I can't remember how to do at the shell. It has a MySQL GUI interface that works very well. And you can setup user accounts to have access to certain parts of Webmin, like just MySQL. Easy RPM install, and inside Webmin is an app to upgrade itself. Can also install Perl modules, edit your php.ini file, etc. Cheers, Tim Tim McGeary Senior Systems Specialist Lehigh University 610-758-4998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Google Talk: timmcgeary Yahoo IM: timmcgeary Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
This is why most Web applications have to implement CRUD interfaces. PHP is definitely for the uninitiated. Along the lines of CodeIgnitor, I would suggest using another framework Symfony. It's a very powerful, yet easy to learn framework, and it will autogenerate the CRUD for you. Really, some framework is probably the way to go for this, regardless of which you choose. - David -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Ken Irwin Sent: Wed 7/30/2008 6:35 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin? Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Thanks for all the database suggestions. The Scaffolding function Sean suggested is more perfect than I dreamed possible. One day I'd probably benefit from learning the whole CodeIgniter framework; for now, this function will do just what I need. Thanks so much! Ken Sean Hannan wrote: I was in a similar situation and I just used CodeIgniter's scaffolding (http://codeigniter.com/user_guide/general/scaffolding.html ) feature to allow my users to add/edit data. It's pretty safe, and it looks neat and clean, too. Sean Hannan Web Developer, Sheridan Libraries Johns Hopkins University Ken Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/30/08 9:35 AM Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less- techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non- admin- types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic, low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience, frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience. For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This stuff adds up fast. Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits and demerits. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Cloutman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why most Web applications have to implement CRUD interfaces. PHP is definitely for the uninitiated. Along the lines of CodeIgnitor, I would suggest using another framework Symfony. It's a very powerful, yet easy to learn framework, and it will autogenerate the CRUD for you. Really, some framework is probably the way to go for this, regardless of which you choose. - David -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Ken Irwin Sent: Wed 7/30/2008 6:35 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin? Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
I don't think he was asking about *programmers* creating or modifying *schema*. On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Tim Spalding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic, low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience, frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience. For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This stuff adds up fast. Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits and demerits. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Cloutman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why most Web applications have to implement CRUD interfaces. PHP is definitely for the uninitiated. Along the lines of CodeIgnitor, I would suggest using another framework Symfony. It's a very powerful, yet easy to learn framework, and it will autogenerate the CRUD for you. Really, some framework is probably the way to go for this, regardless of which you choose. - David -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries on behalf of Ken Irwin Sent: Wed 7/30/2008 6:35 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin? Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding -- Shawn Boyette [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Shawn Boyette ☠ wrote: I don't think he was asking about *programmers* creating or modifying *schema*. It's true -- I just want a simple little data entry tool (which I've got now! That was easy.) I've been doing all of my development by hand, without the luxury of frameworks, not out of any programmerly virtue, but just out of simplicity -- ie, I've not taken the time to learn about frameworks. It sure would be nice to take the time at some point, and I'll keep Tim's injunctions about abstraction in mind when I do. *thanks and joy* Ken On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:07 AM, Tim Spalding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This gets religious quickly, but, in my experience, programmers who learn on a framework miss out on their understanding of database necessities. They may not matter much when you have a low-traffic, low-content situation, but as your traffic and data grow you're going to want an understanding of how MySQL optimizes queries, what's expensive and what's not, and so forth. Although anyone can learn anything, experience is the best teacher, and, in my experience, frameworks encourage you to avoid that experience. For example, the Ruby programmers I've worked with have been unaware that MySQL only uses one index per table per select, causing them to index far more than they need, how joins work across different MySQL data types, the advantages of ganging your inserts together, etc. This stuff adds up fast. Of course, the same arguments could be leveled against PHP in favor of C, against C in favor of assembly, etc.. Abstraction always has merits and demerits. Tim -- Ken Irwin Reference Librarian Thomas Library, Wittenberg University
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
That reminds me of a better idea. Let's keep a real understanding of computers from less-techy colleagues at the library. That way no messy learning or understanding will take place, and we'll always be needed. Then we could start wearing white colors... T On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Alex Dolski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That reminds me of an idea for a photo sharing website I had, tentatively called LeftOutrJoinr. It would be like Flickr, but instead of pictures everywhere, visitors would be given a command line into which they would be able to enter their own SQL queries to call up photos to appear on the page via AJAX. I see it becoming quite popular among 3-5 people. Alex Tim Spalding wrote: I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Tim McGeary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Webmin. http://www.webmin.com/ It gives me a GUI for all of my vital sysadmin needs that I can't remember how to do at the shell. It has a MySQL GUI interface that works very well. And you can setup user accounts to have access to certain parts of Webmin, like just MySQL. Easy RPM install, and inside Webmin is an app to upgrade itself. Can also install Perl modules, edit your php.ini file, etc. Cheers, Tim Tim McGeary Senior Systems Specialist Lehigh University 610-758-4998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Google Talk: timmcgeary Yahoo IM: timmcgeary Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Alex A. Dolski Web Digitization Application Developer Lied Library, University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457041 Las Vegas, NV 89154-7041 (702) 895-2225 (phone) / (702) 895-2280 (fax) -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding
Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin?
Perhaps you should put together some MySQL training materials for librarians. A webinar, perhaps. I'd love it if my colleagues had those skills. I don't think there is that much interest, but I could be wrong. There are at least 101 ways enterprise level database skills could be put to work in my library. I'm pretty sick of our core technical solutions being Excel spreadsheets and the occasional Access database. Blech. - David --- David Cloutman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Electronic Services Librarian Marin County Free Library -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Spalding Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 8:49 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] what's friendlier less powerful than phpMyAdmin? That reminds me of a better idea. Let's keep a real understanding of computers from less-techy colleagues at the library. That way no messy learning or understanding will take place, and we'll always be needed. Then we could start wearing white colors... T On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Alex Dolski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That reminds me of an idea for a photo sharing website I had, tentatively called LeftOutrJoinr. It would be like Flickr, but instead of pictures everywhere, visitors would be given a command line into which they would be able to enter their own SQL queries to call up photos to appear on the page via AJAX. I see it becoming quite popular among 3-5 people. Alex Tim Spalding wrote: I'd consider teaching them how to use SQL directly. I've done it at LibraryThing. I take employees from the simplest SELECTs all the way to a people-who-have-X-also-have-Y self-join in one long hands-on lesson. It doubles as a sort of test, and I've even used it in hiring. LibraryThing's two full-time librarians got there with flying colors; I've had programmers who stumbled. (Not surprisingly they didn't work out.) Once someone understands SQL itself, you can throw a helper, like PMA, at them too. I think there's a real opportunity for empowerment here. Teach a man to SELECT and he'll never have to, um, fish again. Tim On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Tim McGeary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Webmin. http://www.webmin.com/ It gives me a GUI for all of my vital sysadmin needs that I can't remember how to do at the shell. It has a MySQL GUI interface that works very well. And you can setup user accounts to have access to certain parts of Webmin, like just MySQL. Easy RPM install, and inside Webmin is an app to upgrade itself. Can also install Perl modules, edit your php.ini file, etc. Cheers, Tim Tim McGeary Senior Systems Specialist Lehigh University 610-758-4998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Google Talk: timmcgeary Yahoo IM: timmcgeary Ken Irwin wrote: Hi folks, I have some straightforward MySQL data tables that I would like to be editable by some of my less-techy colleagues. I tend to think of phpMyAdmin as a perfectly serviceable and reasonably interface for updating database tables, but I'm told that it's kind of intimidating to the uninitiated. Are there alternatives that are meant for non-admin-types? I'd want something with read/write permissions, but that could be targeted at just a few tables, wouldn't have any of the more potent tools (drop, empty, etc.). In the ideal world, I might like something that would prevent users from doing things like accidentally changing primary key data and things like that. I've thought about writing something, but I suspect that would be reinventing the wheel. Any ideas? Thanks, Ken -- Alex A. Dolski Web Digitization Application Developer Lied Library, University of Nevada, Las Vegas 4505 S. Maryland Parkway, Box 457041 Las Vegas, NV 89154-7041 (702) 895-2225 (phone) / (702) 895-2280 (fax) -- Check out my library at http://www.librarything.com/profile/timspalding Email Disclaimer: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/nav/misc/EmailDisclaimer.cfm
