Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On Thu, 15 May 2014, Jodi Schneider wrote: elm++ people still use elm? I'm personally using the 'patterns-filters2' rule in alpine for managing my mailing lists. I've considered switching to mutt, but I haven't used elm or its derivatives in over a decade. (elm didn't have good MIME support, and I was getting tired of jumping through hoops for every attachment... although, it was *much* better than pine if you were connecting at 1200 baud, as it didn't redraw the screen constantly) -Joe On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:09 PM, Eric Lease Morgan emor...@nd.edu wrote: I have done my initial best to configure the mailing list to support a jobs topic, and I've blogged about how you can turn off or turn on the jobs listings. [1] From the blog: The Code4Lib community has also spawned job postings. Sometimes these job postings flood the mailing list, and while it is entirely possible use mail filters to exclude such postings, there is also more than one way to skin a cat. Since the mailing list uses the LISTSERV software, the mailing list has been configured to support the idea of topics, and through this feature a person can configure their subscription preferences to exclude job postings. Here's how. By default every subscriber to the mailing list will get all postings. If you want to turn off getting the jobs postings, then email the following command to lists...@listserv.nd.edu: SET code4lib TOPICS: -JOBS If you want to turn on the jobs topic and receive the notices, then email the following command to lists...@listserv.nd.edu: SET code4lib TOPICS: +JOBS Sorry, but if you subscribe to the mailing list in digest mode, then the topics command has no effect; you will get the job postings no matter what. Special thanks go to Jodi Schneider and Joe Hourcle who pointed me in the direction of this LISTSERV functionality. Thank you! The LISTSERV topics feature is new to me, and I hope it works as advertised. I think it will. [1] blog posting - http://bit.ly/1nSCG2u ? Eric Lease Morgan, Mailing List Owner
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
elm++ elm didn't have good MIME support I have to agree. I have scoured YouTube and found no videos of Eric Lease Morgan silently trapped in a glass box... :-)
Re: [CODE4LIB] Add job as a listserv topic (was Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs)
On May 8, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Jodi Schneider jschnei...@pobox.com wrote: Eric -- are you still the list owner? j...@code4lib.org already uses Job: as a prefix -- so I would suggest adding Job as a topic, setting Default-Topics= Job,OTHER (unless all-caps is requisite?) If this works, nobody should have to take any action except the list-owner and anybody who wants the Job topic filtered out. On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joe Hourcle onei...@grace.nascom.nasa.gov wrote: ...As this is an an actual LISTSERV(tm) mailing list, it's possible for the list owner to define 'topics', and then for people to set up their subscription to exclude those they wish to ignore: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/16.0/htmlhelp/list%20owners/ModeratingEditingLists.html#2338132 I have not been ignoring my administrative mailing list responsibilities, just away from my computer. I will investigate the possibilities of creating a “topic”. —Eric Morgan
Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I can't help with the Python, but a test case for the script would obviously be You know I can't subscribe to your ghost jobs list. Deborah -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Kane Sent: Friday, 9 May 2014 2:44 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to convert New Zealand English to International English. Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way. :-) -- Susan Kane Boston(ish), MA P Please consider the environment before you print this email. The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with all attachments from your system.
Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Context: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIYvD9DI1ZA Cheers stuart -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Fitchett, Deborah Sent: Monday, 12 May 2014 9:53 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I can't help with the Python, but a test case for the script would obviously be You know I can't subscribe to your ghost jobs list. Deborah -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Susan Kane Sent: Friday, 9 May 2014 2:44 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to convert New Zealand English to International English. Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way. :-) -- Susan Kane Boston(ish), MA P Please consider the environment before you print this email. The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with all attachments from your system.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs
On 8 May 2014 18:08, Scott Fisher scott.fis...@ucop.edu wrote: 4. I find arguments to the effect of I love looking at jobs² orthoginal to the discussion since weıre not talking about disallowing job postings, but just moving them to a separate list. Anyone who is interested enough in jobs could also add a separate jobs list to go to their daily email inbox, so Iım not sure how it would be a loss of all jobs emails they like. I suppose this argument essentially comes down to the same kind of argument as the pro-email-filter one. Basically that argument is, ³just do something different to receive the emails you want the way you want them.² But in this case the argument is coming right back at you from the other direction of suggting a separate email list. I have filters set up, and find they just don't work reliably. OK, they work 9 times out of 10, but things always slip through. Imho, there are more people inconvenienced by having jobs on the list (setting up filters, filters not working, unable to filter digests, etc.) than there are people inconvenienced by having a separate list for jobs (is there really anyone that can't sign up for a separate list? is it impossible to add a subscribe link to the jobs list in a footer?) (actually, I note there isn't a footer on this mailing list at all - must be one of the only mailing lists that doesn't include a footer with unsubscribe and general information. Technically, doesn't this mean it falls foul of anti-spam legislation in some territories?) G
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs
I have filters set up, and find they just don't work reliably. OK, they work 9 times out of 10, but things always slip through. Imho, there are more people inconvenienced by having jobs on the list (setting up filters, filters not working, unable to filter digests, etc.) than there are people inconvenienced by having a separate list for jobs (is there really anyone that can't sign up for a separate list? The same could be said for virtually everything here. Many of the discussions (such as this one) aren't technical at all. Those that are tend to be dominated by a narrow range of objectives, methods, and tools representing only a small part of library operations and technologies. This means every topic most likely appeals only to a minority of subscribers. I believe there is real value to a common experience as well as not contributing to expanding fragmentation of the library community into needlessly specialized microcosms. There are multiple approaches that can work for people who are overwhelmed. The easiest is simply to set to nomail and read from the web when there is time/inclination. I do this for several lists myself, and c4l may soon be joining that group. The filter option is there. You can simply not read things that don't interest you -- I probably only read about 5% of what I receive and the job postings are not among the emails I read. I'm trying to figure out why I'm even reading this thread let alone participating, but that it exists at all intrigues me. Code4lib doesn't exist as an organization and has no ability approve or disapprove anything. This means that anyone who thinks a new list should exist can set it up. kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Let's not dwell on any single reply in this thread - that tends to make people uncomfortable, and not something I want to be a part of. We have a lively and interesting discussion going and we've also gained some new insights as to how some subscribers are using this list and for what reasons. I think the main point discovered so far is that the job postings are considered far more important by the overall community than some of us previously suspected (myself included). I have the answer to the question I was originally looking for, thank you all. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 8:28 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs The fact that the only person who has given any acknowledgement of understanding my message was someone else in .ac.nz suggests that despite my best efforts my message content was effectively shredded by the implicit conversion from New Zealand English to International English. My apologies; I withdraw my original email. To translate explicitly into International English, my point was: I have observed that an individuals position on mail filtering vs separate mailing lists appears to be an implicit marker of group membership in this group (i.e. a shibboleth). Note that I do not endorse this or any other marker of group membership, but my understanding of psychology of groups suggest that all functional groups have markers of group membership and that attempting to eliminate markers of group membership in an attempt at inclusiveness (a) can in itself be a marker of group membership and (b) is only likely to drive a shift from relative explicit markers to relatively implicit markers. cheers stuart On 05/08/2014 10:17 AM, David Friggens wrote: This is a pretty terrible reply. I thought it was a great reply. obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) Somewhat obscure, but not so much in Code4Lib. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_(Internet2) Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. He most definitely was. I believe Stuart's point was to suggest that when the multiple requests for a separate list for job notices get immediately shot down with no - use an email filter, or are you stupid? [1] it doesn't help to create an inclusive and good learning environment. [1] NB the respondents aren't explicitly are you stupid but that's how it may be taken by some people. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. My view is that it would make more sense to have separate discussion and job notice lists, as I see in other places. But I'm not that bothered personally, as I would subscribe to both and filter them into the same folder in my mail client. :-) Cheers David
[CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to convert New Zealand English to International English. Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way. :-) -- Susan Kane Boston(ish), MA
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I suspect I'm not the only mostly-lurker who subscribes to CODE4LIB in digest mode, finding value in a glance over the previous day's discussions each morning, then (very) occasionally weighing in on individual threads via the web interface. I find this to be more effective and efficient than filtering-and-foldering individual messages, at least for my goal of having some idea of the content of the conversations here, although--not being a full-time library technologist--I'm really just skimming. I also suspect that I'm also not the only digest-mode subscriber who would see value in a digest-mode option that excluded job postings. Ben Brumfield http://manuscripttranscription.blogspot.com/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On May 8, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Ben Brumfield wrote: I suspect I'm not the only mostly-lurker who subscribes to CODE4LIB in digest mode, finding value in a glance over the previous day's discussions each morning, then (very) occasionally weighing in on individual threads via the web interface. I find this to be more effective and efficient than filtering-and-foldering individual messages, at least for my goal of having some idea of the content of the conversations here, although--not being a full-time library technologist--I'm really just skimming. I also suspect that I'm also not the only digest-mode subscriber who would see value in a digest-mode option that excluded job postings. As this is an an actual LISTSERV(tm) mailing list, it's possible for the list owner to define 'topics', and then for people to set up their subscription to exclude those they wish to ignore: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/16.0/htmlhelp/list%20owners/ModeratingEditingLists.html#2338132 I would suspect it would be honored even in digest mode, but I've never tried it. -Joe
[CODE4LIB] Add job as a listserv topic (was Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs)
Of everything I heard, Joe's suggestion sounds most palatable. I hope jobs will *always* be on the list but I understand that some people don't want to read them and feel it's a burden to filter (there are a lot of crappy mail clients out there). The documentation I looked at isn't detailed enough to tell whether topic-based digests can be created. That would be needed to solve Ben's problem -- get a digest without job postings. Eric -- are you still the list owner? j...@code4lib.org already uses Job: as a prefix -- so I would suggest adding Job as a topic, setting Default-Topics= Job,OTHER (unless all-caps is requisite?) If this works, nobody should have to take any action except the list-owner and anybody who wants the Job topic filtered out. -Jodi On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Joe Hourcle onei...@grace.nascom.nasa.govwrote: On May 8, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Ben Brumfield wrote: I suspect I'm not the only mostly-lurker who subscribes to CODE4LIB in digest mode, finding value in a glance over the previous day's discussions each morning, then (very) occasionally weighing in on individual threads via the web interface. I find this to be more effective and efficient than filtering-and-foldering individual messages, at least for my goal of having some idea of the content of the conversations here, although--not being a full-time library technologist--I'm really just skimming. I also suspect that I'm also not the only digest-mode subscriber who would see value in a digest-mode option that excluded job postings. As this is an an actual LISTSERV(tm) mailing list, it's possible for the list owner to define 'topics', and then for people to set up their subscription to exclude those they wish to ignore: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/16.0/htmlhelp/list%20owners/ModeratingEditingLists.html#2338132 I would suspect it would be honored even in digest mode, but I've never tried it. -Joe
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs
I¹ll +1 the suggestion for a separate list for jobs. My personal reasons: 1. I receive the digest version of the code4lib emails (once daily), so I can¹t easily split just jobs into their own folder in my mail program since it¹s all one file. I don¹t really want to start parsing and splitting the file. Thanks, though. 2. I like receiving the digest version of the email which means I¹m reminded to scan through the single email I receive once a day for topics of interest or discusion and I¹m not distracted by email notifications and other things all day when I¹m trying to concentrate through what are already way too many daily interruptions. (Yeah, I know going to its own folder keeps it out of the inbox stream, but there is still the irresistable pull and the mail notifier and other things and I tend to never look at things hidden away in a quarantined folder, ever.) 3. Jobs are generally not topics of interest for me since most are from other places in the country and I¹m not at all interested in moving somewhere else for a job right now even if I were looking, so a good portion of the listings are just extra noise that I don¹t really care about. 4. I find arguments to the effect of I love looking at jobs² orthoginal to the discussion since we¹re not talking about disallowing job postings, but just moving them to a separate list. Anyone who is interested enough in jobs could also add a separate jobs list to go to their daily email inbox, so I¹m not sure how it would be a loss of all jobs emails they like. I suppose this argument essentially comes down to the same kind of argument as the pro-email-filter one. Basically that argument is, ³just do something different to receive the emails you want the way you want them.² But in this case the argument is coming right back at you from the other direction of suggting a separate email list. 5. Honestly, after all these reasons, I don¹t really care so much and to me it¹s a minor annoyance rather than a pressing problem, but I wanted to put out an alternate viewpoint to the oft repeated ³why don¹t you just use this filtering solution that works for me.² Sorry, that¹s not a solution I love, for whatever idiosyncratic reasons about the way I work. Probably nothing is going to make everyone happy, so, no big deal, whatever happens. I guess that¹s an argument for the status quo since it seems like it¹s one of those things like favorite colors that not everyone is going to agree on and we¹ll never resolve.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Joe Hourcle onei...@grace.nascom.nasa.govwrote: On May 8, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Ben Brumfield wrote:As this is an an actual LISTSERV(tm) mailing list, it's possible for the list owner to define 'topics', and then for people to set up their subscription to exclude those they wish to ignore: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/16.0/htmlhelp/list%20owners/ModeratingEditingLists.html#2338132 I would suspect it would be honored even in digest mode, but I've never tried it. It is important to note that topics are active only when the subscriber's subscription is set to MAIL. All messages posted to the list, regardless of topic, are included in the digest and/or index for the list (if available) because the same digest/index is prepared and sent to all the digest/index subscribers. Similarly, all messages posted to the list are archived in the list's notebook logs (if available), making it possible for subscribers to retrieve postings in topics they are not set to receive normally. Here's an RSS feed, filtered by Yahoo Pipes, which apparently still exists. http://pipes.yahoo.com/pipes/pipe.run?_id=95c80307544bb45bab582108bad92946_render=rss [Back in the days before LISTSERV became LISTSERV® closed source, I had the misfortune to have to go in to the code base to figure out why it was eating up about half the cpu time on the Convex mini-supercomputer UNC was running on. Using my secret super powers of knowing-the-first-thing-about-unix and being-able-to-read, I managed to solve the problem in about 5 lines of code, by not spinning doing non-blocking reads in order to do a read with a timeout. Inflation adjusted, I think that was my highest value return per line of code (since there was no need to buy a second C2 just to run the listserv) Expect LISTSERV® to do the wrong thing if the option is available]
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs
I have another, maybe minor, point to add to this: I've posted a job to Code4Lib, and I did it wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to make a job show up correctly, and now that I have realized I've done it wrong, I probably won't send another job to this list. (Or maybe I'll look it up in ... where? the wiki?) A second list would make this a lot clearer, I think. -- Coral Sheldon-Hess http://sheldon-hess.org/coral @web_kunoichi
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs
On May 8, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: I have another, maybe minor, point to add to this: I've posted a job to Code4Lib, and I did it wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to make a job show up correctly, and now that I have realized I've done it wrong, I probably won't send another job to this list. (Or maybe I'll look it up in ... where? the wiki?) A second list would make this a lot clearer, I think. So, from my 'knowing way to much about LISTSERV(tm) brand mailing lists, from having been the primary support person at a university for a couple of a years: There's another feature for 'sub-lists', where you can set up parent/child relationships between lists ... so someone you can have a separate address to send to for job postings specifically: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/16.0/htmlhelp/list%20owners/StartingMailingLists.html#2337469 I've never tried it, but it might be possible to set the SUBJECTHDR on the sub-list so the parent list assigns a topic for a given sub-list. -Joe
Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On 05/09/2014 02:44 AM, Susan Kane wrote: Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to convert New Zealand English to International English. Yes, because tasking people with AI-complete programming tasks (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-complete ) is only slightly worse than systematically malfunctioning sarcasm filters. Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way. Or we could acknowledge code4lib's role as a safe place for people to tune their sarcasm detectors. cheers stuart
[CODE4LIB] how to post jobs (was Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs)
Hi Coral all, On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess co...@sheldon-hess.orgwrote: I have another, maybe minor, point to add to this: I've posted a job to Code4Lib, and I did it wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to make a job show up correctly, and now that I have realized I've done it wrong, I probably won't send another job to this list. (Or maybe I'll look it up in ... where? the wiki?) You post them at http://jobs.code4lib.org/
Re: [CODE4LIB] how to post jobs (was Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs)
On 05/09/2014 10:04 AM, Jodi Schneider wrote: On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: I have another, maybe minor, point to add to this: I've posted a job to Code4Lib, and I did it wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to make a job show up correctly, and now that I have realized I've done it wrong, I probably won't send another job to this list. (Or maybe I'll look it up in ... where? the wiki?) You post them at http://jobs.code4lib.org/ Could that information please be added to the footer that's added when posting jobs? cheers stuart
Re: [CODE4LIB] how to post jobs (was Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for Jobs)
pull request with something along those lines: https://github.com/code4lib/shortimer/pull/31 On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Stuart Yeates stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nzwrote: On 05/09/2014 10:04 AM, Jodi Schneider wrote: On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 9:54 PM, Coral Sheldon-Hess wrote: I have another, maybe minor, point to add to this: I've posted a job to Code4Lib, and I did it wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to make a job show up correctly, and now that I have realized I've done it wrong, I probably won't send another job to this list. (Or maybe I'll look it up in ... where? the wiki?) You post them at http://jobs.code4lib.org/ Could that information please be added to the footer that's added when posting jobs? cheers stuart
Re: [CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Salvete! Honestly, though, who all would even want to understand a Kiwi? They're practically escaped convicts, since everyone in the Northern Hemisphere knows that they're just tiny Aussies.* Also, I have to translate code for them, since they cannot do for themselves. [1] Ba dum cha, Brooke *warning contains humour and #notintendedtobeafactualstatement. [1] http://translate.koha-community.org/en_NZ/ On 05/09/2014 02:44 AM, Susan Kane wrote: Obviously, we must now task someone in CODE4LIB with writing a Python script to convert New Zealand English to International English. Yes, because tasking people with AI-complete programming tasks (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-complete ) is only slightly worse than systematically malfunctioning sarcasm filters. Or, I guess we could solve this on the user side with a sarcasm filter or a humor pipe, but you might lose some data that way. Or we could acknowledge code4lib's role as a safe place for people to tune their sarcasm detectors. cheers stuart
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 07:51:02 +1200 From: stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart This is a pretty terrible reply. Besides being rude, you're creating an artificial divide between us and them. No one is 'intruding' on anyone - it's a public forum for people who work in LIBRARIES (aka - places where inclusion is supposed to rule) without any filtering of participants, so technically anyone with an email address is part of the 'ingroup'. Just because you think you're one of the cool kids doesn't mean you should try to intimidate others with obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) and patronizing tone. Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. But it doesn't come across that way. Also, asking why isn't complaining. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. Sarah
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
+1 for Sarah My understanding of this listserv is that it's a place to learn. It's not a good learning environment if we make it so people don't want to ask questions for fear of being told they're stupid. Emily On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Sarah Shealy sarah.she...@outlook.comwrote: Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 07:51:02 +1200 From: stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart This is a pretty terrible reply. Besides being rude, you're creating an artificial divide between us and them. No one is 'intruding' on anyone - it's a public forum for people who work in LIBRARIES (aka - places where inclusion is supposed to rule) without any filtering of participants, so technically anyone with an email address is part of the 'ingroup'. Just because you think you're one of the cool kids doesn't mean you should try to intimidate others with obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) and patronizing tone. Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. But it doesn't come across that way. Also, asking why isn't complaining. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. Sarah
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I'm a 'big picture' kind of guy and I personally think that knowing what's going on in the world of libraries (including employment needs and requirements) is an essential part of coding for libraries. I also echo the sentiment that I don't need yet another list-serv subscription - I can barely keep up with the dozens I have already! -- Mark Vege Programmer/Analyst University of California, Irvine Libraries - Web Services --
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On 5/7/14, 5:37 AM, Sarah Shealy wrote: you're creating an artificial divide between us and them. No one is 'intruding' on anyone - it's a public forum for people who work in LIBRARIES (aka - places where inclusion is supposed to rule) without any filtering of participants, so technically anyone with an email address is part of the 'ingroup'. Yeah, Sarah! I think this is a good reminder that the attitude of if you don't know, you don't belong here is NOT what c4l is about. Instead, it should be if you don't know, let me help you learn what you need to know. At the same time, if someone asks a question that you don't have the time or patience to answer, just let it flow by -- someone else will catch it. You don't have to read every post to c4l, and you definitely are not obligated to answer questions that come to the list. Delete key. The all-important delete key. kc -- Karen Coyle kco...@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
+1 for Sarah's view here. Code4lib is a community, and an especially inclusive one. I too was annoyed by all the job posts, then I needed to use it a few times to get the word out on a position and can think of no better community to draw from. It was worth the effort of creating a filter to somewhat declutter the list. I'm also hoping Stuart was being sarcastic, but it didn't read that way. Email is a hard place to be funny, or sometimes even direct, without it coming off the wrong way. I've learned this the hard way ;) Declan PS I did kinda dig the Shib reference ;) -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Sarah Shealy Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 5:38 AM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 07:51:02 +1200 From: stuart.yea...@vuw.ac.nz Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart This is a pretty terrible reply. Besides being rude, you're creating an artificial divide between us and them. No one is 'intruding' on anyone - it's a public forum for people who work in LIBRARIES (aka - places where inclusion is supposed to rule) without any filtering of participants, so technically anyone with an email address is part of the 'ingroup'. Just because you think you're one of the cool kids doesn't mean you should try to intimidate others with obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) and patronizing tone. Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. But it doesn't come across that way. Also, asking why isn't complaining. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. Sarah
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
This is a pretty terrible reply. I thought it was a great reply. obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) Somewhat obscure, but not so much in Code4Lib. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_(Internet2) Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. He most definitely was. I believe Stuart's point was to suggest that when the multiple requests for a separate list for job notices get immediately shot down with no - use an email filter, or are you stupid? [1] it doesn't help to create an inclusive and good learning environment. [1] NB the respondents aren't explicitly are you stupid but that's how it may be taken by some people. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. My view is that it would make more sense to have separate discussion and job notice lists, as I see in other places. But I'm not that bothered personally, as I would subscribe to both and filter them into the same folder in my mail client. :-) Cheers David
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for discussing a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-discuss-jobs-list-jobs-list, perhaps? :P /runs away On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 5:17 PM, David Friggens frigg...@waikato.ac.nz wrote: This is a pretty terrible reply. I thought it was a great reply. obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) Somewhat obscure, but not so much in Code4Lib. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_(Internet2) Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. He most definitely was. I believe Stuart's point was to suggest that when the multiple requests for a separate list for job notices get immediately shot down with no - use an email filter, or are you stupid? [1] it doesn't help to create an inclusive and good learning environment. [1] NB the respondents aren't explicitly are you stupid but that's how it may be taken by some people. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. My view is that it would make more sense to have separate discussion and job notice lists, as I see in other places. But I'm not that bothered personally, as I would subscribe to both and filter them into the same folder in my mail client. :-) Cheers David -- Chad Fennell Web Developer University of Minnesota Libraries (612) 626-4186
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I don't mind having them both in the same feed. They're easy enough to tell apart even w/o a filter. The reason I say this is that when I see something like Job: Digital Assets Librarian, or Job: Linked Data Technologist, Metadata at Stanford University, just to pick two at random, that's a good way for me (as a hiring manager) to see what new kinds of positions are being posted (as opposed to those I'm already familiar with), what new responsibilities they might entail, how a position might be pitched in a new way, or, as in the case of Stanford, what in particular they (as a leader in some of the sorts of things I care about) might be up to. At the very least it adds useful pieces to my current awareness in a convenient way, but it also has the potential of influencing how we define the next position we post here, and since we would like to hire from the community, it has potential benefit for the community as well. Of course, I'm speaking for myself, but in case this is a potentially useful perspective, that some others might hold as well, I post it. -- Charles Blair, Director, Digital Library Development Center, University of Chicago Library 1 773 702 8459 | c...@uchicago.edu | http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~chas/
[CODE4LIB] Withdraw my post was: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
The fact that the only person who has given any acknowledgement of understanding my message was someone else in .ac.nz suggests that despite my best efforts my message content was effectively shredded by the implicit conversion from New Zealand English to International English. My apologies; I withdraw my original email. To translate explicitly into International English, my point was: I have observed that an individuals position on mail filtering vs separate mailing lists appears to be an implicit marker of group membership in this group (i.e. a shibboleth). Note that I do not endorse this or any other marker of group membership, but my understanding of psychology of groups suggest that all functional groups have markers of group membership and that attempting to eliminate markers of group membership in an attempt at inclusiveness (a) can in itself be a marker of group membership and (b) is only likely to drive a shift from relative explicit markers to relatively implicit markers. cheers stuart On 05/08/2014 10:17 AM, David Friggens wrote: This is a pretty terrible reply. I thought it was a great reply. obscure words (seriously, shibboleth?) Somewhat obscure, but not so much in Code4Lib. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth_(Internet2) Unless you're trying to be sarcastic...in which case ignore this. He most definitely was. I believe Stuart's point was to suggest that when the multiple requests for a separate list for job notices get immediately shot down with no - use an email filter, or are you stupid? [1] it doesn't help to create an inclusive and good learning environment. [1] NB the respondents aren't explicitly are you stupid but that's how it may be taken by some people. And to answer the original question - job listings help more people than they annoy so they should be kept as-is. My view is that it would make more sense to have separate discussion and job notice lists, as I see in other places. But I'm not that bothered personally, as I would subscribe to both and filter them into the same folder in my mail client. :-) Cheers David
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Point of logic: the fact that you (or others) find them useful is orthogonal to whether they should be from the same source. That was the original question. No, wait, it was about discussing (discussing) whether they should be together :) -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Blair Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 11:56 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I don't mind having them both in the same feed. They're easy enough to tell apart even w/o a filter. The reason I say this is that when I see something like Job: Digital Assets Librarian, or Job: Linked Data Technologist, Metadata at Stanford University, just to pick two at random, that's a good way for me (as a hiring manager) to see what new kinds of positions are being posted (as opposed to those I'm already familiar with), what new responsibilities they might entail, how a position might be pitched in a new way, or, as in the case of Stanford, what in particular they (as a leader in some of the sorts of things I care about) might be up to. At the very least it adds useful pieces to my current awareness in a convenient way, but it also has the potential of influencing how we define the next position we post here, and since we would like to hire from the community, it has potential benefit for the community as well. Of course, I'm speaking for myself, but in case this! is a potentially useful perspective, that some others might hold as well, I post it. -- Charles Blair, Director, Digital Library Development Center, University of Chicago Library 1 773 702 8459 | c...@uchicago.edu | http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~chas/ P Please consider the environment before you print this email. The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with all attachments from your system.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Point of order: I’m not beholden to anyone to restrict my answers to their particular logical paradigm or to their particular agenda in regards to a topic. Nor will I. That’s not how discussions work. Best regards, Jason Bengtson, MLIS, MA Head of Library Computing and Information SystemsAssistant Professor, Graduate CollegeDepartment of Health Sciences Library and Information ManagementUniversity of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center405-271-2285, opt. 5405-271-3297 (fax) jason-bengt...@ouhsc.edu http://library.ouhsc.edu www.jasonbengtson.com NOTICE: This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the original message at the listed email address. Thank You. On May 7, 2014, at 7:45 PM, Barnes, Hugh hugh.bar...@lincoln.ac.nz wrote: Point of logic: the fact that you (or others) find them useful is orthogonal to whether they should be from the same source. That was the original question. No, wait, it was about discussing (discussing) whether they should be together :) -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Blair Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2014 11:56 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I don't mind having them both in the same feed. They're easy enough to tell apart even w/o a filter. The reason I say this is that when I see something like Job: Digital Assets Librarian, or Job: Linked Data Technologist, Metadata at Stanford University, just to pick two at random, that's a good way for me (as a hiring manager) to see what new kinds of positions are being posted (as opposed to those I'm already familiar with), what new responsibilities they might entail, how a position might be pitched in a new way, or, as in the case of Stanford, what in particular they (as a leader in some of the sorts of things I care about) might be up to. At the very least it adds useful pieces to my current awareness in a convenient way, but it also has the potential of influencing how we define the next position we post here, and since we would like to hire from the community, it has potential benefit for the community as well. Of course, I'm speaking for myself, but in case this! is a potentially useful perspective, that some others might hold as well, I post it. -- Charles Blair, Director, Digital Library Development Center, University of Chicago Library 1 773 702 8459 | c...@uchicago.edu | http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~chas/ P Please consider the environment before you print this email. The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject to copyright. Any unauthorised use, distribution, or copying of the contents is expressly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by return e-mail or telephone and then delete this e-mail together with all attachments from your system.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
In the great growing tradition of 21st century political debate, I will avoid the questions in this thread entirely, and pivot to points that I personally find gratifying to discuss, as I'm enjoying the observations of others: 1.) For the record, though I've never been to New Zealand (still waiting my invite... ahem), I found Stuart's email a wonderfully self-conscious allusion to C4L's the answer is technology personality that (at times) emerges. (And +2 points for the double entendre Internet2 pun--intentional or not). I guess it's true that email does not adequately convey tongueness-in-cheek 2.) Ditto to what Charles says..., plus 3.) More than once, the C4L jobs I've found out about jobs my own organization was posting from this list that were a surprise to me. (Left hand, meet right hand!) 4.) More than once, I've found out from the C4L jobs feed that our own HR system has successfully posted a position in my own department. Yes, this can take weeks, and no, our awesome HR system doesn't have an internal email notification system 5.) Charles--did you say you were interested in a linked data position at Stanford, or know someone who is? Call me! : ) - Tom On May 7, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Charles Blair wrote: I don't mind having them both in the same feed. They're easy enough to tell apart even w/o a filter. The reason I say this is that when I see something like Job: Digital Assets Librarian, or Job: Linked Data Technologist, Metadata at Stanford University, just to pick two at random, that's a good way for me (as a hiring manager) to see what new kinds of positions are being posted (as opposed to those I'm already familiar with), what new responsibilities they might entail, how a position might be pitched in a new way, or, as in the case of Stanford, what in particular they (as a leader in some of the sorts of things I care about) might be up to. At the very least it adds useful pieces to my current awareness in a convenient way, but it also has the potential of influencing how we define the next position we post here, and since we would like to hire from the community, it has potential benefit for the community as well. Of course, I'm speaking for myself, but in case this is a potentially useful perspective, that some others might hold as well, I post it. -- Charles Blair, Director, Digital Library Development Center, University of Chicago Library 1 773 702 8459 | c...@uchicago.edu | http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/~chas/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
No. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.comwrote: Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
No On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: No. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.comwrote: Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
This comes up all the time, and always it's no. For anyone who doesn't like the job postings, use email filters. -Wilhelmina On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.com wrote: Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. Then again, perhaps as a group we are just not posting enough code related topics to drown out the occasional job posting. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Wilhelmina Randtke Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:39 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs This comes up all the time, and always it's no. For anyone who doesn't like the job postings, use email filters. -Wilhelmina On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.com wrote: Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. Fragmentation dilutes the community and creates an unnecessary barrier by requiring people to know one more thing. Email filters take no time at all to set up so anyone who considers them noise doesn't need to be exposed to them. kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
No. Junior Tidal Assistant Professor Web Services and Multimedia Librarian New York City College of Technology, CUNY 300 Jay Street, Rm A434 Brooklyn, NY 11201 718.260.5481 http://library.citytech.cuny.edu Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.com 5/6/2014 12:34 PM Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
No -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Edward M. Corrado Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:38 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs No On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:36 PM, Devon dec...@gmail.com wrote: No. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.comwrote: Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I also vote NO. I want so see first hand what the marketable skills are that I should be acquiring. I can always delete the ones that are way above my head, but at least I've some idea what terms to look up! JJ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Chudnov Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:35 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan *Shop to Support Queens Library! Buy books, e-books, videos, music, gifts at great prices. A portion of the proceeds benefit Queens Library. http://www.queenslibrary.org/shop The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
No. The sender is j...@code4lib.org, so that makes email filters super easy ;-). - Original Message - From: Dan Chudnov daniel.chud...@gmail.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 12:34:31 PM Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan -- Chris Sharp PINES System Administrator Georgia Public Library Service 1800 Century Place, Suite 150 Atlanta, Georgia 30345 (404) 235-7147 csh...@georgialibraries.org http://pines.georgialibraries.org/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I agree as well - I've always been taught to always keep your eye on the job market, even if you are gainfully and happily employed. You also never know when a friend or colleague may be a good fit for a job you see on C4L. So, I enjoy the job posts and if you don't want to read them, the suggestion of email filters, or even simple deletion, may work for you. Best, Kate On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Jacobs, Jane W jane.w.jac...@queenslibrary.org wrote: I also vote NO. I want so see first hand what the marketable skills are that I should be acquiring. I can always delete the ones that are way above my head, but at least I've some idea what terms to look up! JJ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Chudnov Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:35 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan *Shop to Support Queens Library! Buy books, e-books, videos, music, gifts at great prices. A portion of the proceeds benefit Queens Library. http://www.queenslibrary.org/shop The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -- Kate Kosturski, MSLIS, Pratt Institute k...@katekosturski.info librariankate7...@gmail.com 609-235-7658 (mobile) http://www.katekosturski.info http://www.katekosturski.com/ Twitter: librarian_kate http://twitter.com/librarian_kate
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
There is another benefit in addition to, skills should I cultivate. There is a follow-the-money factor. Declaring I'm for Linked Data is one thing. Putting Linked Data in a job title is something far more significant. Since code4lib is not always boast4lib-ish, it would be too great a loss to not see the evidence of financial investment by institutions for things like the Hydra stack (Solr, Fedora, Blacklight...) over the last few years. When your HR department says you are building an RDF-based triple store, I am pretty certain you will be doing it. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Kyle Banerjee kyle.baner...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. Fragmentation dilutes the community and creates an unnecessary barrier by requiring people to know one more thing. Email filters take no time at all to set up so anyone who considers them noise doesn't need to be exposed to them. kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
what jobs emails? I haven't seen one of those since I started on this list =P I agree that a simple filter works perfectly well, and the lower number of mailing list people have to subscribe to, the better On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Kate Kosturski librariankate7...@gmail.com wrote: I agree as well - I've always been taught to always keep your eye on the job market, even if you are gainfully and happily employed. You also never know when a friend or colleague may be a good fit for a job you see on C4L. So, I enjoy the job posts and if you don't want to read them, the suggestion of email filters, or even simple deletion, may work for you. Best, Kate On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Jacobs, Jane W jane.w.jac...@queenslibrary.org wrote: I also vote NO. I want so see first hand what the marketable skills are that I should be acquiring. I can always delete the ones that are way above my head, but at least I've some idea what terms to look up! JJ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Chudnov Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:35 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan *Shop to Support Queens Library! Buy books, e-books, videos, music, gifts at great prices. A portion of the proceeds benefit Queens Library. http://www.queenslibrary.org/shop The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -- Kate Kosturski, MSLIS, Pratt Institute k...@katekosturski.info librariankate7...@gmail.com 609-235-7658 (mobile) http://www.katekosturski.info http://www.katekosturski.com/ Twitter: librarian_kate http://twitter.com/librarian_kate
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Very well then, carry on with the job postings. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Meyer Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 1:34 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs There is another benefit in addition to, skills should I cultivate. There is a follow-the-money factor. Declaring I'm for Linked Data is one thing. Putting Linked Data in a job title is something far more significant. Since code4lib is not always boast4lib-ish, it would be too great a loss to not see the evidence of financial investment by institutions for things like the Hydra stack (Solr, Fedora, Blacklight...) over the last few years. When your HR department says you are building an RDF-based triple store, I am pretty certain you will be doing it. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Kyle Banerjee kyle.baner...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. Fragmentation dilutes the community and creates an unnecessary barrier by requiring people to know one more thing. Email filters take no time at all to set up so anyone who considers them noise doesn't need to be exposed to them. kyle
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
How do you manage to filter out those who feel their job is worthy of cross posting without using jobs@code4lib I've yet to get around to making a smarter filter to deal with those. Carrick Rogers Revs Infrastructure Developer 210 Meyer Library, Stanford, CA carri...@stanford.edu - Original Message - From: Cynthia Ng cynthia.s...@gmail.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 10:33:09 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs what jobs emails? I haven't seen one of those since I started on this list =P I agree that a simple filter works perfectly well, and the lower number of mailing list people have to subscribe to, the better On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Kate Kosturski librariankate7...@gmail.com wrote: I agree as well - I've always been taught to always keep your eye on the job market, even if you are gainfully and happily employed. You also never know when a friend or colleague may be a good fit for a job you see on C4L. So, I enjoy the job posts and if you don't want to read them, the suggestion of email filters, or even simple deletion, may work for you. Best, Kate On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Jacobs, Jane W jane.w.jac...@queenslibrary.org wrote: I also vote NO. I want so see first hand what the marketable skills are that I should be acquiring. I can always delete the ones that are way above my head, but at least I've some idea what terms to look up! JJ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Chudnov Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:35 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan *Shop to Support Queens Library! Buy books, e-books, videos, music, gifts at great prices. A portion of the proceeds benefit Queens Library. http://www.queenslibrary.org/shop The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -- Kate Kosturski, MSLIS, Pratt Institute k...@katekosturski.info librariankate7...@gmail.com 609-235-7658 (mobile) http://www.katekosturski.info http://www.katekosturski.com/ Twitter: librarian_kate http://twitter.com/librarian_kate
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
smime.p7m Description: S/MIME encrypted message
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
How do you manage to filter out those who feel their job is worthy of cross posting without using jobs@code4lib ? To me this is a strong argument for keeping the Code4Lib job posting as-is. For the postings that come through http://jobs.code4lib.org/ , people can filter with 100% accuracy. If every listserv has an organized and consistent way of marking up and sending job postings, then filters would work on those other lists too. -Wilhelmina Randtke On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:14 PM, Carrick Rogers carri...@stanford.edu wrote: How do you manage to filter out those who feel their job is worthy of cross posting without using jobs@code4lib I've yet to get around to making a smarter filter to deal with those. Carrick Rogers Revs Infrastructure Developer 210 Meyer Library, Stanford, CA carri...@stanford.edu - Original Message - From: Cynthia Ng cynthia.s...@gmail.com To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 10:33:09 AM Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs what jobs emails? I haven't seen one of those since I started on this list =P I agree that a simple filter works perfectly well, and the lower number of mailing list people have to subscribe to, the better On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Kate Kosturski librariankate7...@gmail.com wrote: I agree as well - I've always been taught to always keep your eye on the job market, even if you are gainfully and happily employed. You also never know when a friend or colleague may be a good fit for a job you see on C4L. So, I enjoy the job posts and if you don't want to read them, the suggestion of email filters, or even simple deletion, may work for you. Best, Kate On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Jacobs, Jane W jane.w.jac...@queenslibrary.org wrote: I also vote NO. I want so see first hand what the marketable skills are that I should be acquiring. I can always delete the ones that are way above my head, but at least I've some idea what terms to look up! JJ -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Dan Chudnov Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 12:35 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs Is it time to reconsider: should we start a separate list for Job: postings? code4lib-jobs, perhaps? -Dan *Shop to Support Queens Library! Buy books, e-books, videos, music, gifts at great prices. A portion of the proceeds benefit Queens Library. http://www.queenslibrary.org/shop The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. -- Kate Kosturski, MSLIS, Pratt Institute k...@katekosturski.info librariankate7...@gmail.com 609-235-7658 (mobile) http://www.katekosturski.info http://www.katekosturski.com/ Twitter: librarian_kate http://twitter.com/librarian_kate
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. Since I was one of the first to respond with a bare no, let me explain why. Dan didn't seed the discussion in any way. He asked a yes or no question - is it time to reconsider a jobs only list. Without any apparent reason WHY we should reconsider the topic, I felt the obvious answer was No. I also, at the time, didn't feel the need to elaborate on my answer. I honestly don't care if we keep the job postings on this list or create a new list. I'm just not interested in the discussion. If Ed, or anyone else, wants a new list, just do it and tell us about it. It really doesn't matter either way. /dev On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Sent from my GMail account.
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I rarely post anything to this list because honestly I'm not qualified in most cases. For this, however, I'm qualified. While I didn't see the initial question, I've figured it through its replies. Some of those responses have been pretty disheartening. While most of what goes through this list is more Code than Libraries, I'd just like to remind people that at the heart of libraries is The Question. We're not the parents that say Because I said so or Because that's how it's always been done. So, thanks to those who responded to the question with grace and information. And thanks to people willing to ask questions knowing that replies may demonstrate a misunderstanding or disregard for the original question. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
I vote no the separation, even though I am a high school student I still enjoy reading the postings and seeing what jobs are out there, people with solid jobs likely agree with me 100%, plus it lets me know what type of degree(s) I may need in this field! Riley Childs Junior IT Admin email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101 cell: +1 (704) 497-2086 Please Think Before Hitting Reply All I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Frasur [direc...@hagerstownlibrary.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:53 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I rarely post anything to this list because honestly I'm not qualified in most cases. For this, however, I'm qualified. While I didn't see the initial question, I've figured it through its replies. Some of those responses have been pretty disheartening. While most of what goes through this list is more Code than Libraries, I'd just like to remind people that at the heart of libraries is The Question. We're not the parents that say Because I said so or Because that's how it's always been done. So, thanks to those who responded to the question with grace and information. And thanks to people willing to ask questions knowing that replies may demonstrate a misunderstanding or disregard for the original question. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Suggestion: What if we had a daily digest? Instead of a blast evrytime a new job is posted why not do a daily digest of all posted jobs? Or we could say after there have been 12 jobs posted send a digest with those 12 jobs? Riley Childs Junior IT Admin email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101 cell: +1 (704) 497-2086 Please Think Before Hitting Reply All I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Frasur [direc...@hagerstownlibrary.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:53 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I rarely post anything to this list because honestly I'm not qualified in most cases. For this, however, I'm qualified. While I didn't see the initial question, I've figured it through its replies. Some of those responses have been pretty disheartening. While most of what goes through this list is more Code than Libraries, I'd just like to remind people that at the heart of libraries is The Question. We're not the parents that say Because I said so or Because that's how it's always been done. So, thanks to those who responded to the question with grace and information. And thanks to people willing to ask questions knowing that replies may demonstrate a misunderstanding or disregard for the original question. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
Riley, That sounds like a good idea. +1 from me. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 5:22 PM, Riley Childs rchi...@cucawarriors.comwrote: Suggestion: What if we had a daily digest? Instead of a blast evrytime a new job is posted why not do a daily digest of all posted jobs? Or we could say after there have been 12 jobs posted send a digest with those 12 jobs? Riley Childs Junior IT Admin email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101 cell: +1 (704) 497-2086 Please Think Before Hitting Reply All I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Frasur [direc...@hagerstownlibrary.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:53 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I rarely post anything to this list because honestly I'm not qualified in most cases. For this, however, I'm qualified. While I didn't see the initial question, I've figured it through its replies. Some of those responses have been pretty disheartening. While most of what goes through this list is more Code than Libraries, I'd just like to remind people that at the heart of libraries is The Question. We're not the parents that say Because I said so or Because that's how it's always been done. So, thanks to those who responded to the question with grace and information. And thanks to people willing to ask questions knowing that replies may demonstrate a misunderstanding or disregard for the original question. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/ -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/
Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs
It's not conversation though, it's more like broadcast. Surely I don't have to explain on this particular list why this channel is not the perfect broadcast outlet. Further, it's quite distinct subject matter. Let me not generalise about librarians, but don't these ideas resonate?: * separating out discrete information usefully ... ? * giving users the tools to choose ... ? (OK, we can set up filters. Note that I don't do that for any other lists. This is a common enough filtering requirement that the onus of effort should be looked at. You filter it, user is only OK IMO for unusual filtering requirements - this seems to have weight behind it.) And if there's, say, a job feed, I probably _will_ subscribe, but I'll check it less often. A feed will let us apply metadata (do we know what that is?), which means we could potentially filter it to our own regions too. Oh, the possibilities! This organising information stuff isn't just a theory we test on our patrons. If this group can't provide an exemplar, then ... [insert calamity]. Cheers :) -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Riley Childs Sent: Wednesday, 7 May 2014 9:10 a.m. To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I vote no the separation, even though I am a high school student I still enjoy reading the postings and seeing what jobs are out there, people with solid jobs likely agree with me 100%, plus it lets me know what type of degree(s) I may need in this field! Riley Childs Junior IT Admin email: rchi...@cucawarriors.com office: +1 (704) 537-0031 x101 cell: +1 (704) 497-2086 Please Think Before Hitting Reply All I Do Web Design! RileyChilds.net/services From: Code for Libraries [CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ruth Frasur [direc...@hagerstownlibrary.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 4:53 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs I rarely post anything to this list because honestly I'm not qualified in most cases. For this, however, I'm qualified. While I didn't see the initial question, I've figured it through its replies. Some of those responses have been pretty disheartening. While most of what goes through this list is more Code than Libraries, I'd just like to remind people that at the heart of libraries is The Question. We're not the parents that say Because I said so or Because that's how it's always been done. So, thanks to those who responded to the question with grace and information. And thanks to people willing to ask questions knowing that replies may demonstrate a misunderstanding or disregard for the original question. On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Richard Sarvas richard.sar...@lib.uconn.edu wrote: Actually, I am not complaining. I am just wondering why I am receiving so may job postings on a list serve that I though was supposed to be relating to Code4Lib conferences and coding in library environments. Had the list been called Code4LibJobs I suspect I never would have asked the question in the first place. As that is not the title of this list I felt it was a reasonable question, mostly because every time this topic comes up people simply respond No without explaining why. When the topic was proposed by another member I took the time to seek clarification. Still, thanks for taking the time to explain reason why so many job postings appear on this list. Rick -Original Message- From: Code for Libraries [mailto:CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Stuart Yeates Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 3:51 PM To: CODE4LIB@LISTSERV.ND.EDU Subject: Re: [CODE4LIB] separate list for jobs On 05/07/2014 04:59 AM, Richard Sarvas wrote: Not to be a jerk about this, but why is the answer always No? There seem to be more posts on this list relating to job openings than there are relating to code discussions. Are job postings a part why this list was originally created? If so, I'll stop now. The answer is always no because we are collectively using the the possession of an email client with filtering capability and the personal knowledge of how to use it as a Shibboleth for group membership. Those who find it easier to complain than write a filter mark themselves as members of the outgroup intruding on the ingroup. cheers stuart -- Ruth Frasur Director of the Historic(ally Awesome) Hagerstown - Jefferson Township Library 10 W. College Street in Hagerstown, Indiana (47346) p (765) 489-5632; f (765) 489-5808 Our Kickin' Website http://hagerstownlibrary.org Our Rockin' Facebook Page http://facebook.com/hjtplibrary and Stuff I'm Readinghttp://pinterest.com/hjtplibrary/ruth-reads/ P Please consider the environment before you print this email. The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) may be confidential and/or subject
