Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Lally Singh]

These sound like fun!  Is there any way to get a higher-bandwidth
connection out of the OM than USB?

Say if we wanted to double-output the video signal or whatever.


On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's really very simple. Someone hack one together, take pictures, and
>  describe it on a wiki page. As Andy says, once we chickens find our
>  heads we can consider whether to turn these into products or not.
>
>  Michael
>
>
>
>  Andy Green wrote:
>  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>  > Hash: SHA1
>  >
>  > Somebody in the thread at some point said:
>  >
>  >> That is a nice idea, would like to have an accessory like that to make
>  >> my neo into a camera, when I need it...
>  >
>  > It is a nice idea.  The Y cable is a nice idea too.  But (it's just my
>  > personal take) the problem with loading up any new things on this
>  > product right now is
>  >
>  >  - we didn't sell any yet :-)
>  >
>  >  - everyone is running around in headless chicken mode trying to
>  > finalize production, their brains are not configured for new tasks right 
> now
>  >
>  > I think the way forward is to prototype these ideas on a GTA02 and
>  > document it and what it does, where it is useful, then after the current
>  > storm dies down it is accessible to explain what the idea is to the
>  > people that can yea or nay it.
>  >
>  > For these external USB accessories, it is exactly the kind of thing
>  > users can hack on, including the kernel side if needed (although USB
>  > device support in Linux can already be adequate for many tasks).  If a
>  > couple of folks did it and are going on about how much it rocked and to
>  > show what they achieved this speaks very loudly.
>  >
>  > I started prototyping the Y cable, but of course the wiring for a mini
>  > USB cable does not include ID normally :-/  Later I will edit the cable
>  > of one of the chargers I have here to do it that way.
>  >
>  > Really I think this kind of user-driven "Wah! We could do THIS!!!" is
>  > great and it is exactly the idea of the product, but unlike a closed
>  > product we really CAN do it without petitioning the company, and within
>  > reason I'm pretty sure supporting this kind of hacking endeavour from my
>  > side is part of my job description.
>  >
>  > - -Andy
>  > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>  > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
>  > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>  >
>  > iD8DBQFH2PRVOjLpvpq7dMoRAv2UAJkBwbnmzZjjs8H8kWfBvZaLFtC/2wCeJRgY
>  > hxMic6U/rxMSLPXgmCvuznk=
>  > =AO8g
>  > -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>  >
>  > ___
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>
>  ___
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>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Michele Renda]

Lally Singh wrote:

These sound like fun!  Is there any way to get a higher-bandwidth
connection out of the OM than USB?

Say if we wanted to double-output the video signal or whatever.
  

Remember it is a phone, not a star trek pad :)

Freerunner is projected to have an Usb2 port and I think it is good 
enough to use with a cam, or to plug a pendrive or an USB HD.


This is the advantage to use open standard :)

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Marcin Juszkiewicz]

Dnia Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury napisał:
> In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
> available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
> availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
> that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
> Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...

Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer 
platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.

-- 
JID: hrw-jabber.org
OpenEmbedded developer/consultant

What a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
-- WOPR, "War Games"



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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Andrea Debortoli]

Michael told "next couple of months"...a month ago, and no announcement has
been released yet...

2008/3/16, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> On 16/03/2008, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  So please, give us some words about delays if there are any...
>
>
> NO!
> You don't get these words from Openmoko
>
> You already know what you get
>
> 1) full access to kernel/dev discussions - you should make your own
> mind up on what these mean for timescale...
> 2) Following announcement (prev by M Shiloh)
>
> 
>
> Hello,
>
> A number of times you have asked about pre-orders. Here is the official
> word from our VP of Marketing:
>
> Over the next couple of months you will see the following 3 announcements:
>
> 1. When the production hardware is solid and signed off, we will
> announce pricing and availability. That is, we will announce the
> expected price and the expected date on which the web store will open.
>
> 2. When the first production run is complete, we will announce that.
>
> 3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we
> will open the web store and begin taking orders.
>
>
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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Christoph Witzany]

JW schrieb:

On 16/03/2008, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

 So please, give us some words about delays if there are any...



NO!
You don't get these words from Openmoko

You already know what you get

1) full access to kernel/dev discussions - you should make your own
mind up on what these mean for timescale...
2) Following announcement (prev by M Shiloh)

  


Well that would be all fine if one needs the Freerunner privately as a 
phone and for that I would gladly wait ;).


However in my case the Freerunner should constitute the platform for a 
project of my PhD thesis, so a few months up and down _do_ matter. If 
the Freerunner is available to developers only in August, I'll have to 
look elsewhere for a appropriate platform, as much as it would pain me.


The suggestion to make my mind up reading kernel discussions is not very 
helpful and might even be considered mockery. I'm sure someone in the 
core kernel team has a general idea about the stability and matureness 
of the hardware platform, and can at least tell if it is realistic that 
developers get their hands on a device until May 1st (given the 
inevitable time offset for mass production).


Maybe however FIC decides to start mass production only when software 
maturity is in sight, which would make sense to them, but would severely 
hinder the building of a community since 1. the Neo1973 is sold out and 
2. it lacks many nifty features that could inspire novel and interesting 
projects.


I know that in hardware design show stoppers can lurk behind every 
corner, but I would appreciate if  *someone* familiar with the current 
status of the hardware and/or FICs policy towards releasing developer 
devices could suggest a date when we could order it *IF* everything goes 
according to plan as of march 16th.


regards
Christoph

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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Ivo Anjo]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Freerunner is projected to have an Usb2 port and I think it is good
>  enough to use with a cam, or to plug a pendrive or an USB HD.
>

I don't think its usb2... at least the wiki mentions usb1.1
everywhere. Can you check your source?

Ivo

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Re: Openmoko at OpenExpo

[Alexandre Ghisoli]

Le dimanche 16 mars 2008 à 03:12 +0100, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" a
écrit :
> Alexandre Ghisoli wrote:
> > We have seen the Freerunner working; it's quite fast and responsive with
> > a funny lock screen saying something about an Fruit Phone.
> 
> No videos for us? :P
> 

Heh, sorry, my GTA01v4 doesn't have camera nor video recorder ;)

But you can find few video, not the best I've seen :
http://www.mefeedia.com/query.php?q=Openmoko%20Openexpo

But no freerunner vids.

Regards

-- 
Alexandre Ghisoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
YCOM SA


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Over The Air - event

[john]

Anybody from Openmoko or the community attending "Over The Air" ?

http://overtheair.org

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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[joerg]

Am So  16. März 2008 schrieb Ivo Anjo:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> >
> >  Freerunner is projected to have an Usb2 port and I think it is good
> >  enough to use with a cam, or to plug a pendrive or an USB HD.
> >
> 
> I don't think its usb2... at least the wiki mentions usb1.1
> everywhere. Can you check your source?

I think the wiki is wrong here, due to copy&paste from 1973.
Andy Green mentioned "2 15k resistors from D+, D- to GND, to detect 
_highspeed_"

cheers
jOERG

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Re: where The SMS message save?

[Magnus Alvestad]

They are saved in evolution files in the root home directory. I don't
remember the exact path, but it's something like:

~root/.evolution/memos/memos.evo

-- 
Magnus Alvestad - Seniorkonsulent Webstep
Mob: 982 98 004 - http://www.webstep.no
Oslo - Bergen - Stavanger - Trondheim
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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Michele Renda]

I apologize. I was wrong.

I think it is still good enough to read / write usb pendrive but it can 
give problem in case of a webcam (I am thinking to 1.3 MPix webcam).

But for a normal vga webcam I think there are not problems

Ivo Anjo wrote:

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:04 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

 Freerunner is projected to have an Usb2 port and I think it is good
 enough to use with a cam, or to plug a pendrive or an USB HD.




I don't think its usb2... at least the wiki mentions usb1.1
everywhere. Can you check your source?

Ivo

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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[joerg]

Am Do  13. März 2008 schrieb Andy Green:
> - gpg control packet
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> > I am happy this interest someone.
> >
> > The advantages of an external mini usb camera is:
> >
> > 1. It does not require reproject of hardware (it is nice to have
> > autoalimented usb port :)
> > 2. It can be bought only if a person want, who don't like don't buy it.
> > 3. It can be upgrader with a better version if for example I need a 15
> > Mpixel webcam :) (I am joking) or if I need to replace because the cam
> > is not well running (image noise)
> 
> I was sold on the idea already personally, no need for reasons here :-)
> 
> > 1. Mini usb port support
> 
> I investigated this yesterday and hacked open a mini USB -> USB A plug
> cable already and soldered on a USB A socket instead, and plugged in a
> USB memory stick.  If you do
> 
> echo host > /sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-ohci/usb_mode
> 
> and currently on the git tree, although the path may change soon
> 
> echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-pm-host.0/hostmode
> 
> then the USB memory stick is recognized by the phone.

Could you confirm that USB2 devices are actually recognized 
in _highspeed_ mode (Freerunner), and which transfer rate we might expect?

jOERG

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FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Mark Haury]

Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at
haerwu.biz wrote on Sun Mar 16 11:02:12 CET 2008
Dnia Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury napisał:
>> In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
>> available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
>> availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
>> that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
>> Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...>
>
>Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer 
>platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.

Exactly my point - the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo
hardware, since both have been sold out for some time. And the fact that
people are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something
about the the status of Openmoko...

Mark




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FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Mark Haury]

Daniel Spies daniel.spies at fuceekay.com wrote on Sat Mar 15 22:42:47 
CET 2008

>On Saturday 15 March 2008 19:27:02 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
>> >
>> > ...and the Neo *is* fully open? What about the graphics module, the
>> > gps module, and the gsm module? You may get some I/O specs, but the
>> > modules themselves will never be open. They won't even release the
>> > CAD files for the case in their original form...
>>
>> The CAD files here:
>>
>>http://downloads.openmoko.org/CAD/
>>
>> Are _exactly_ the files that we use (and will use) for Mass Production.
>> Please let me know where you found this inaccuate information so we can
>> correct it.
>>
>> Or is this just your opinion?
>>
>> Sean
>>
>
>Hehe, pwn3d! :)
>
Huh? I stand corrected on the CAD files; my information was from the 
last post

I saw on the subject which said that they were trying to find alternate
formats. But I've hardly been "pwn3d", since that is the absolutely least
important point possible, and only one of many. I have yet to see any
refutation of any of my other points.
>
>Anyway, I'd like to have some approximately date again, when the 
Freerunner

>will be ready for shipping _to developers_. Is the hardware tested and
>approved now? Will you go into mass-production soon, or is it 
conceivable? If

>we're close now, maybe we can get some more accurate dates...
>
>Daniel

...and here you're actually backing up the real points I've been trying 
to make...


Mark

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Re: where The SMS message save?

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Magnus Alvestad ha scritto:
They are saved in evolution files in the root home directory. I don't 
remember the exact path, but it's something like:


~root/.evolution/memos/memos.evo


Since When I'll have a freerunner I'd like to import my SMSs saved in my 
actual mobile, I'd like to know the exact syntax too...


Do you have some examples to post?
Thanks!

--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Mark Haury]

Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz wrote on Sun Mar 16 
11:02:12 CET 2008


On Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury wrote:
>> In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
>> available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
>> availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
>> that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
>> Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...>
>
>Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer
>platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.

Exactly my point: the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo
hardware at this point, since both have been sold out for some time and 
there's no telling when GTA02 might be available. And the fact that people

are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something about the
the status of Openmoko...

The only difference between the Greenphone and the Neo at this point is that
Trolltech have publicly announced that the Greenphone is not going to be
produced anymore, whereas Openmoko keep promising (but not delivering) more
hardware. It's the *promise* of the resumption of production of hardware 
that

keeps them actively developing Qtopia for the Neo.

It seems to me that continued production of the flawed GTA01 hardware would
have been preferable to nothing at all. And unless there's some extremely
serious problem with GTA02 that they're not telling us, they certainly could
have released it to developers before now. It is *abundantly* clear to
everyone that the software and probably the hardware is not ready for 
consumer

release, but without allowing developers to evaluate and help, it never will
be. The core FIC-employed group is much too small to do it all by 
themselves,

regardless of how brilliant and competent they are. It's not their technical
expertise that is being questioned, just their business sense.

It all boils down to the premise upon which this project is supposedly 
based:

is it "open", or not?

Mark

P.S. If Nokia does in fact take over Trolltech as is rumored, this might all
be moot in short order. I warned a long time ago about the window of
opportunity...

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Matt Manjos]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:15 AM, Mark Haury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz wrote on Sun Mar 16
>  11:02:12 CET 2008
>
>
>  On Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury wrote:
>   >> In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
>   >> available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
>   >> availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
>   >> that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
>   >> Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...>
>   >
>   >Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer
>   >platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.
>
>  Exactly my point: the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo
>  hardware at this point, since both have been sold out for some time and
>  there's no telling when GTA02 might be available. And the fact that people
>
> are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something about the
>  the status of Openmoko...
>
>  The only difference between the Greenphone and the Neo at this point is that
>  Trolltech have publicly announced that the Greenphone is not going to be
>  produced anymore, whereas Openmoko keep promising (but not delivering) more
>  hardware. It's the *promise* of the resumption of production of hardware
>  that
>  keeps them actively developing Qtopia for the Neo.
>
>  It seems to me that continued production of the flawed GTA01 hardware would
>  have been preferable to nothing at all. And unless there's some extremely
>  serious problem with GTA02 that they're not telling us, they certainly could
>  have released it to developers before now. It is *abundantly* clear to
>  everyone that the software and probably the hardware is not ready for
>  consumer
>  release, but without allowing developers to evaluate and help, it never will
>  be. The core FIC-employed group is much too small to do it all by
>  themselves,
>  regardless of how brilliant and competent they are. It's not their technical
>  expertise that is being questioned, just their business sense.
>
>  It all boils down to the premise upon which this project is supposedly
>  based:
>  is it "open", or not?
>
>  Mark
>
>  P.S. If Nokia does in fact take over Trolltech as is rumored, this might all
>  be moot in short order. I warned a long time ago about the window of
>  opportunity...

I think the main concern with FIC at the moment is that if they
release the Freerunner developer-only hardware now, produced in 10x
the quantity of the 1973 (what was hinted to earlier), and some major
hardware problem was found, it could destroy the credibility and the
resources of the project. I hate waiting like this, and I was hoping
to get the Freerunner developer model for my birthday in a few weeks,
but I'd much rather wait and have the guarantee that I won't be SOL if
there is a problem with the function or the longevity of the device.

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FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Mark Haury]

Matt Manjos matt at manjos.com wrote on Sun Mar 16 16:23:09 CET 2008:


I think the main concern with FIC at the moment is that if they
release the Freerunner developer-only hardware now, produced in 10x
the quantity of the 1973 (what was hinted to earlier), and some major
hardware problem was found, it could destroy the credibility and the
resources of the project. I hate waiting like this, and I was hoping
to get the Freerunner developer model for my birthday in a few weeks,
but I'd much rather wait and have the guarantee that I won't be SOL if
there is a problem with the function or the longevity of the device.


Which is worse: the fear of possible failure, or certain failure?

The fear of failure is usually self-fulfilling prophecy.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If they're constantly going to give in to the fear of failure, then that 
is certainly what's going

to happen.

Mark

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Ivo Anjo]

I think there are people here with different objectives.

My objective is to get a cool platform where I can code and play
around, but I fully intend on using it daily as a replacement for my
current cellphone and pda, and do care about problems.

Clearly there are people out there that do not mind little hardware
bugs as they just want it for other purposes, but I'm glad FIC is
taking its time, because while I don't mind "crashes today, I'll get a
bugfix tomorrow" I sure care about the hardware working, because I'm
not planning on spending money on the freerunner to get a cool new
paperweight or device to keep at home.

Anyway, please understand that there are multiple sides to the issue,
and I don't think accusing openmoko of being worse than qtopia (I
wanna have BOTH on mine!) and putting pressure to the I'm sure already
under great pressure FIC people is going to help alot.
Didn't they get the 1973 hardware working and out to the public? Give
them a little credit, and let's keep the discussion constructive.

Ivo

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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

> Could you confirm that USB2 devices are actually recognized 
> in _highspeed_ mode (Freerunner), and which transfer rate we might expect?

They are recognized as 12Mbps devices, that's all that we can handle on
the S3C2442 in the Freerunner.

Although 480Mbps is obviously better, for most things 12Mbps is fine
(and works backward-compatible).  For example even today most webcams
are actually only 12Mbps devices.

- -Andy


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3UNKOjLpvpq7dMoRAtfQAKCA16t5EAkYL2ZBUTACxpAqTy1A4QCfeKtV
g1t1673B/MLu/t6iXhnLBJY=
=Amnk
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Openmoko at OpenExpo

[Andrea Debortoli]

Watch this!!

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=X781iXprqo8

Ciao

2008/3/16, Alexandre Ghisoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> Le dimanche 16 mars 2008 à 03:12 +0100, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" a
> écrit :
>
> > Alexandre Ghisoli wrote:
> > > We have seen the Freerunner working; it's quite fast and responsive
> with
> > > a funny lock screen saying something about an Fruit Phone.
> >
> > No videos for us? :P
> >
>
>
> Heh, sorry, my GTA01v4 doesn't have camera nor video recorder ;)
>
> But you can find few video, not the best I've seen :
> http://www.mefeedia.com/query.php?q=Openmoko%20Openexpo
>
> But no freerunner vids.
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
> Alexandre Ghisoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> YCOM SA
>
>
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>
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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[David "Lefty" Schlesinger]

Mark Haury wrote:

Matt Manjos matt at manjos.com wrote on Sun Mar 16 16:23:09 CET 2008:


I think the main concern with FIC at the moment is that if they
release the Freerunner developer-only hardware now, produced in 10x
the quantity of the 1973 (what was hinted to earlier), and some major
hardware problem was found, it could destroy the credibility and the
resources of the project. I hate waiting like this, and I was hoping
to get the Freerunner developer model for my birthday in a few weeks,
but I'd much rather wait and have the guarantee that I won't be SOL if
there is a problem with the function or the longevity of the device.


Which is worse: the fear of possible failure, or certain failure?
Clearly the words of someone who's never, ever, worked on a complex 
hardware project. No, "just ship it" is not good advice.

The fear of failure is usually self-fulfilling prophecy.
Lack of proper planning and oversight, not to mention due diligence, 
pretty much always is.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Do you have any notion of what it costs to produce multiple thousands of 
smartphones, just in monetary terms? That's a lot to "venture".
If they're constantly going to give in to the fear of failure, then 
that is certainly what's going

to happen.
Like I say, I don't get the impression that you've got the experience to 
have an informed opinion on this, in all honesty.




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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano]

Well, i've followed this discussion and only one thing is left to say: 
LOL!!!


Just get back from your dream and get the information in the list:
1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that 
aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware, even 
your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic card 
firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is generally 
closed.)
2) The Freerunner is in the last (we hope) development process, 
concerning the hardware, so i think that there's no interest from FIC to 
not release it
3) HOW will it be released? It will be released in a status that only 
the hardware will be in a good form, the software could be considered 
alpha or beta (you are lucky if you can make call or send sms but it's 
not guaranteed)

4) WHEN? when it will be ready it will be released

So, what can you get from that?
You can understand that if you are looking for a replacement for your 
"daily use" pda or phone, if you want to get it in a short time, if you 
think that is closed source, if you want a camera, a keyboard, UMTS, 
HDSPA, EDGE or something different from what is listed for the 
GTA02,, as a normal customer does, you can go to your favorite 
mobile shop and get another mobile.
I think that no one is here to say something like "my cell is better 
than the neo", if you are not satisfied with the Neo specs, there are 2 
thing that you can actually do:

1) wait for another release
2) just get another pda

I can't see the difficulty in that, it's so simply, just like anyother 
product. If you want the Freerunner for other reasons rather than the 
tecnology you have to wait. Personally i like the neo and i like the 
idea to hack a mobile os and make it look and act as i want, and first 
of all i like the openness of this project. If this project was 
something closed i'd be a stupid, with the same money i could get a 
device with all the new tecnology, but i don't like symbian and ms win 
mobile, so i'm waiting for the neo, keeping in mind that it wouldn't be 
ready and functional "out of the box".



So just wait for some news from the FIC guys.

Bye!

Pietro

(sorry if my english is not correct)

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[JW]

On 16/03/2008, Christoph Witzany <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  The suggestion to make my mind up reading kernel discussions is not very
>  helpful and might even be considered mockery.

the suggestion above that you alone are worthy of a declared delivery
date (when it has been extensively described otherwise as the policy
of the project team) might even be considered extreme arrogance.

but i don't know how long you have been watching the mailing lists so
will not accuse you of this.

JW

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Lorn Potter]

Mark Haury wrote:
Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz 
 
wrote on Sun Mar 16 11:02:12 CET 2008


Dnia Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury napisał:

In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...>


Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer 
platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.


Exactly my point - the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo
hardware, since both have been sold out for some time. And the fact that
people are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something
about the the status of Openmoko...


You say that as it is a bad thing...
Rather, it revels something about the status about Qtopia.

:)

--
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

[joerg]

Am So  16. März 2008 schrieb Andy Green:
> - gpg control packet
> Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> 
> > Could you confirm that USB2 devices are actually recognized
> > in _highspeed_ mode (Freerunner), and which transfer rate we might expect?
> 
> They are recognized as 12Mbps devices, that's all that we can handle on
> the S3C2442 in the Freerunner.

Yep, i could have known. 30min reading and learning from CPU manual would 
suffice.
> Host controller: USB1.1 OHCI1.0 Low_speed and Full_speed(=12MHz) compliant.
> NO highspeed. 

/j

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Lorn Potter]

clare wrote:



On Sun, 16 Mar 2008, Lorn Potter wrote:


The "community" has... it has put Qtopia on the device and made it 
work very reasonably, I think.


The 4.3 branch is in bug fix mode, so nothing substantial there. Most 
work is being done for 4.4


The latest binary for Neo from Trolltech is at qtopia.net.


Thanks very much. I did set up the one from qtopia.net,
with a modern u-boot (5 March)
u-boot-gta01bv4-1.3.1+git0+10bbb38a402a2faf18858c451bcdc63d45888e6e+svn4164-r3.bin 


and the two pieces supplied as qtopia-4.3.1-neo-flash.tgz
which is not SD booted, it has apparently to be flashed.

I was very disappointed. I don't know why it was very slow compared with 
what I remember earlier about qtopia.  I may try again sometime in the 


Thats odd. It haven't seen any performance issues like that.




--
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Matt Manjos]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Mark Haury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt Manjos matt at manjos.com wrote on Sun Mar 16 16:23:09 CET 2008:
>
>  >I think the main concern with FIC at the moment is that if they
>  >release the Freerunner developer-only hardware now, produced in 10x
>  >the quantity of the 1973 (what was hinted to earlier), and some major
>  >hardware problem was found, it could destroy the credibility and the
>  >resources of the project. I hate waiting like this, and I was hoping
>  >to get the Freerunner developer model for my birthday in a few weeks,
>  >but I'd much rather wait and have the guarantee that I won't be SOL if
>  >there is a problem with the function or the longevity of the device.
>
>  Which is worse: the fear of possible failure, or certain failure?
>
>  The fear of failure is usually self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>  Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
>
>  If they're constantly going to give in to the fear of failure, then that
>  is certainly what's going
>  to happen.
>
>  Mark
>
>  ___
>  OpenMoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

Buying each one of the 5 GTA02 hardware revisions, if they were sold
to the public, would have cost me $2250 so far, not including
shipping, taxes and customs/duty charges. Each one of those revisions
fixed multiple hardware bugs, some of them very serious. "Certain
failure" as you put it would be to release a piece of hardware that
might burn out because of an obscure, improperly placed resistor or
capacitor and making the community foot the bill every time a $450
hardware revision is produced.

Perhaps waiting for this device feels longer BECAUSE of the openness
of FIC's prototyping/development process. "Watching paint dry" I
believe is the expression, as we see small, incremental changes
instead of a large "splash". If FIC was closed and secretive as to the
prototyping/testing process for their hard drive, and NO information
was given as to a final release date, we wouldn't have anything to
complain about.

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Michael Shiloh]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to get some sort of a concrete update from the team in 
Taiwan. I'll let you know as soon as I do.


Thanks,
Michael

Andrea Debortoli wrote:
Michael told "next couple of months"...a month ago, and no announcement 
has been released yet...


2008/3/16, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>:


On 16/03/2008, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
 >  So please, give us some words about delays if there are any...


NO!
You don't get these words from Openmoko

You already know what you get

1) full access to kernel/dev discussions - you should make your own
mind up on what these mean for timescale...
2) Following announcement (prev by M Shiloh)



Hello,

A number of times you have asked about pre-orders. Here is the official
word from our VP of Marketing:

Over the next couple of months you will see the following 3
announcements:

1. When the production hardware is solid and signed off, we will
announce pricing and availability. That is, we will announce the
expected price and the expected date on which the web store will open.

2. When the first production run is complete, we will announce that.

3. When the phones reach the distribution centers in Europe and USA, we
will open the web store and begin taking orders.


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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Michael Shiloh]

Christoph Witzany wrote:

JW schrieb:

On 16/03/2008, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

 So please, give us some words about delays if there are any...



NO!
You don't get these words from Openmoko

You already know what you get

1) full access to kernel/dev discussions - you should make your own
mind up on what these mean for timescale...
2) Following announcement (prev by M Shiloh)

  


Well that would be all fine if one needs the Freerunner privately as a 
phone and for that I would gladly wait ;).


However in my case the Freerunner should constitute the platform for a 
project of my PhD thesis, so a few months up and down _do_ matter. If 
the Freerunner is available to developers only in August, I'll have to 
look elsewhere for a appropriate platform, as much as it would pain me.


The suggestion to make my mind up reading kernel discussions is not very 
helpful and might even be considered mockery. I'm sure someone in the 
core kernel team has a general idea about the stability and matureness 
of the hardware platform, and can at least tell if it is realistic that 
developers get their hands on a device until May 1st (given the 
inevitable time offset for mass production).


Maybe however FIC decides to start mass production only when software 
maturity is in sight, 


This is not our intention at all. Mass production will start as soon as 
we have verified the hardware. The only software we require will be that 
required to verify the hardware, e.g. drivers, testing utilities, etc.



which would make sense to them, but would severely
hinder the building of a community since 1. the Neo1973 is sold out and 
2. it lacks many nifty features that could inspire novel and interesting 
projects.


I know that in hardware design show stoppers can lurk behind every 
corner, but I would appreciate if  *someone* familiar with the current 
status of the hardware and/or FICs policy towards releasing developer 
devices could suggest a date when we could order it *IF* everything goes 
according to plan as of march 16th.


regards
Christoph

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Michele Renda]

Also I think so:
Produce a phone, with all this function is not easy, and hardware can 
not to be fixed with a patch or a version update.


I appreciate what FIC people are doing.

Ivo Anjo wrote:

I think there are people here with different objectives.

My objective is to get a cool platform where I can code and play
around, but I fully intend on using it daily as a replacement for my
current cellphone and pda, and do care about problems.

Clearly there are people out there that do not mind little hardware
bugs as they just want it for other purposes, but I'm glad FIC is
taking its time, because while I don't mind "crashes today, I'll get a
bugfix tomorrow" I sure care about the hardware working, because I'm
not planning on spending money on the freerunner to get a cool new
paperweight or device to keep at home.

Anyway, please understand that there are multiple sides to the issue,
and I don't think accusing openmoko of being worse than qtopia (I
wanna have BOTH on mine!) and putting pressure to the I'm sure already
under great pressure FIC people is going to help alot.
Didn't they get the 1973 hardware working and out to the public? Give
them a little credit, and let's keep the discussion constructive.

Ivo

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[andy selby]

On 16/03/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
>  I'm trying to get some sort of a concrete update from the team in
>  Taiwan. I'll let you know as soon as I do.

Don't rush on the hardware, your doing a bang up job already
(translation for non-british: thumbs up), I'd rather have a solid
device 6 months down the line than a faulty device in 1 month.
My current neo (running qtopia) is satisfactory for now.
How many of you impatient I-wanna-freerunner-now types would want a
freerunner _this_second_ if you had no guarantee that it would work
perfectly and had no chance to return
it

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Michele Renda]

Hello Pietro

I think you said what a lot of Neo supporter think!

Someone must to understand is not just a phone. I something different 
from what there was untill now. If a person want just a phone or a pda 
is better that buy a phone or a pda.


:)

Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
Well, i've followed this discussion and only one thing is left to say: 
LOL!!!


Just get back from your dream and get the information in the list:
1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that 
aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware, 
even your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic 
card firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is 
generally closed.)
2) The Freerunner is in the last (we hope) development process, 
concerning the hardware, so i think that there's no interest from FIC 
to not release it
3) HOW will it be released? It will be released in a status that only 
the hardware will be in a good form, the software could be considered 
alpha or beta (you are lucky if you can make call or send sms but it's 
not guaranteed)

4) WHEN? when it will be ready it will be released

So, what can you get from that?
You can understand that if you are looking for a replacement for your 
"daily use" pda or phone, if you want to get it in a short time, if 
you think that is closed source, if you want a camera, a keyboard, 
UMTS, HDSPA, EDGE or something different from what is listed for the 
GTA02,, as a normal customer does, you can go to your favorite 
mobile shop and get another mobile.
I think that no one is here to say something like "my cell is better 
than the neo", if you are not satisfied with the Neo specs, there are 
2 thing that you can actually do:

1) wait for another release
2) just get another pda

I can't see the difficulty in that, it's so simply, just like anyother 
product. If you want the Freerunner for other reasons rather than the 
tecnology you have to wait. Personally i like the neo and i like the 
idea to hack a mobile os and make it look and act as i want, and first 
of all i like the openness of this project. If this project was 
something closed i'd be a stupid, with the same money i could get a 
device with all the new tecnology, but i don't like symbian and ms win 
mobile, so i'm waiting for the neo, keeping in mind that it wouldn't 
be ready and functional "out of the box".



So just wait for some news from the FIC guys.

Bye!

Pietro

(sorry if my english is not correct)

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Re: where The SMS message save?

[Andy Green]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

> Do you have some examples to post?
> Thanks!

I didn't know any of this until Magnus said, but it seems it is like
this, additional texts appear between additional BEGIN:VJOURNAL /
END:VJOURNAL

# cat /home/root/.evolution/memos/local/system/journal.ics
BEGIN:VCALENDAR
CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
PRODID:-//Ximian//NONSGML Evolution Calendar//EN
VERSION:2.0
BEGIN:VJOURNAL
UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
DTSTAMP:20080309T150537Z
CREATED:20080309T150538
DTSTART:20080309T150537Z
SUMMARY:T-Mobile
LAST-MODIFIED:20080309T150654
DTEND:20080309T150538Z
LOCATION:+44753XXX
DESCRIPTION:Your tariff is Everyone. To switch between Mates Rates\,
 Everyone & Text Appeal pay as you go tariffs dial 146 free from the UK &
 follow the instructions
CATEGORIES:Read
END:VJOURNAL
... (more texts) ...
END:VCALENDAR

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH3Xy3OjLpvpq7dMoRAtiHAJ9tadz0zSpN+fZGCkwvGfyQueNWKQCfaaSV
MBSHfUTIoM0BppXL7GsAVLU=
=e6WT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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german openmoko, qtopia, neo1973 forum

[einstein]

Hello,

we want to start an blog, forum and media gallery for fans of the 
Openmoko, Neo1973 and Qtopia.


Its in german and you can find it under www.freeyourphone.de

on the right sight you can find a button to the forum oder media gallery...

we are happy if you visit the place and will be a part of it...

Thanks

Stefan

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Re: german openmoko, qtopia, neo1973 forum

[joerg]

NXP(!) developed a battery pack(!) named PCF50633??

AFAIK the PCF50633 is GTA02's PMU chip, and the battpack is made by PPS, not 
NXP.

j

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Re: german openmoko, qtopia, neo1973 forum

[einstein]

sorry, for the wrong information...

thanks for your help...

joerg wrote:

NXP(!) developed a battery pack(!) named PCF50633??

AFAIK the PCF50633 is GTA02's PMU chip, and the battpack is made by PPS, not 
NXP.


j

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Subject: Re: where The SMS message save?

[Bobby Martin]

>
> Magnus Alvestad ha scritto:
> > They are saved in evolution files in the root home directory. I don't
> > remember the exact path, but it's something like:
> >
> > ~root/.evolution/memos/memos.evo
>
> Since When I'll have a freerunner I'd like to import my SMSs saved in my
> actual mobile, I'd like to know the exact syntax too...
>
> Do you have some examples to post?
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Treviño's World - Life and Linux
> http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
Wouldn't it be easier, and probably more robust, to use the dbus api to
insert the SMSes?  See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dbus_device_API
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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Fred Janon]

"I'd rather have a solid device 6 months down the line than a faulty device
in 1 month."

I agree 100% with Andy. I don't want to buy a device and discover a major
issue a month after that. I don't want to have to wait for GTA02.1 or to
have to buy a new GTA03 3 months after GTA02 comes out

You are all doing a great job. Thanks so much.

Fred


On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:42 AM, andy selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 16/03/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> >  I'm trying to get some sort of a concrete update from the team in
> >  Taiwan. I'll let you know as soon as I do.
>
> Don't rush on the hardware, your doing a bang up job already
> (translation for non-british: thumbs up), I'd rather have a solid
> device 6 months down the line than a faulty device in 1 month.
> My current neo (running qtopia) is satisfactory for now.
> How many of you impatient I-wanna-freerunner-now types would want a
> freerunner _this_second_ if you had no guarantee that it would work
> perfectly and had no chance to return
> it
>
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Re: where The SMS message save?

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Andy Green wrote:

Somebody in the thread at some point said:


Do you have some examples to post?
Thanks!


I didn't know any of this until Magnus said, but it seems it is like
this, additional texts appear between additional BEGIN:VJOURNAL /
END:VJOURNAL

# cat /home/root/.evolution/memos/local/system/journal.ics
BEGIN:VCALENDAR
CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
PRODID:-//Ximian//NONSGML Evolution Calendar//EN
VERSION:2.0
BEGIN:VJOURNAL
UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
DTSTAMP:20080309T150537Z
CREATED:20080309T150538
DTSTART:20080309T150537Z
SUMMARY:T-Mobile
LAST-MODIFIED:20080309T150654
DTEND:20080309T150538Z
LOCATION:+44753XXX
DESCRIPTION:Your tariff is Everyone. To switch between Mates Rates\,
 Everyone & Text Appeal pay as you go tariffs dial 146 free from the UK &
 follow the instructions
CATEGORIES:Read
END:VJOURNAL
... (more texts) ...
END:VCALENDAR

-Andy


Thanks... Just one thing: how is generated the UID data?
It seems something like:
   UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, how is calculed what I called ${id}?

Thanks again...

--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: where The SMS message save?

[Ian Darwin]

Thanks... Just one thing: how is generated the UID data?
It seems something like:
   UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, how is calculated what I called ${id}?


There is an official spec for the UUID format, or several variants of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uuid

Ian D

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Re: where The SMS message save?

[joerg]

Am Mo  17. März 2008 schrieb Marco Trevisan (Treviño):
> Andy Green wrote:
> > Somebody in the thread at some point said:
> > 
> >> Do you have some examples to post?
> >> Thanks!
> > 
> > I didn't know any of this until Magnus said, but it seems it is like
> > this, additional texts appear between additional BEGIN:VJOURNAL /
> > END:VJOURNAL
> > 
> > # cat /home/root/.evolution/memos/local/system/journal.ics
> > BEGIN:VCALENDAR
> > CALSCALE:GREGORIAN
> > PRODID:-//Ximian//NONSGML Evolution Calendar//EN
> > VERSION:2.0
> > BEGIN:VJOURNAL
> > UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > DTSTAMP:20080309T150537Z
> > CREATED:20080309T150538
> > DTSTART:20080309T150537Z
> > SUMMARY:T-Mobile
> > LAST-MODIFIED:20080309T150654
> > DTEND:20080309T150538Z
> > LOCATION:+44753XXX
> > DESCRIPTION:Your tariff is Everyone. To switch between Mates Rates\,
> >  Everyone & Text Appeal pay as you go tariffs dial 146 free from the UK &
> >  follow the instructions
> > CATEGORIES:Read
> > END:VJOURNAL
> > ... (more texts) ...
> > END:VCALENDAR
> > 
> > -Andy
> 
> Thanks... Just one thing: how is generated the UID data?
> It seems something like:
> UID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Well, how is calculed what I called ${id}?
I have absolutely no idea, but i think it's easy to find in evolution 
sources ;-)

j


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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Marco Trevisan (Treviño)]

Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that 
aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware, even 
your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic card 
firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is generally 
closed.)


I do agree with this... Btw imho all the words written in this thread 
are due to only one thing: the lack of communication by the FIC 
developers (the hardware ones first of all, but also the software ones).


I think they mostly "talk" with their code, but the most part of the 
community doesn't really know what they're doing and what is really 
happening in Taiwan. That's why this thread started!


So, imho not to loose credibility FIC/Openmoko should have a better 
relationship with its followers relasing more informations both about 
the project status and about the future plans.


Don't you agree?

--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Lally Singh]

A progress blog would be nice.  I don't think much more than what you
normally find in the Wiki and kernel mailing list would be needed.
Just a single place to find out what's going on.

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
>
> > 1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that
>  > aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware, even
>  > your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic card
>  > firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is generally
>  > closed.)
>
>  I do agree with this... Btw imho all the words written in this thread
>  are due to only one thing: the lack of communication by the FIC
>  developers (the hardware ones first of all, but also the software ones).
>
>  I think they mostly "talk" with their code, but the most part of the
>  community doesn't really know what they're doing and what is really
>  happening in Taiwan. That's why this thread started!
>
>  So, imho not to loose credibility FIC/Openmoko should have a better
>  relationship with its followers relasing more informations both about
>  the project status and about the future plans.
>
>  Don't you agree?
>
>  --
>  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>  http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
>
>
>  ___
>  OpenMoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
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>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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RE: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Richard Reichenbacher]

IMO I'd rather the dev team spend their time developing than writing blogs
and answering the communities every question.  Their number 1 priority is
getting the FreeRunner finalized and working.  Not coming up with arbitrary
dates that the device may or may not be ready by.  It would be better that
they spend a few extra months making sure the hardware is good and done than
finding out in those months they needed to have an extra resistor at x
location so that y feature would work.  The community needs to calm down,
relax and be patient.  Remember if you could have created the first open
source phone out of scratch with just a couple guys and a small company than
you'd be the one doing it.  Not the guys in Openmoko busting their asses to
try and change the world or cellular technology.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:34 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

A progress blog would be nice.  I don't think much more than what you
normally find in the Wiki and kernel mailing list would be needed.
Just a single place to find out what's going on.

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
>
> > 1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that
>  > aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware,
even
>  > your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic card
>  > firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is generally
>  > closed.)
>
>  I do agree with this... Btw imho all the words written in this thread
>  are due to only one thing: the lack of communication by the FIC
>  developers (the hardware ones first of all, but also the software ones).
>
>  I think they mostly "talk" with their code, but the most part of the
>  community doesn't really know what they're doing and what is really
>  happening in Taiwan. That's why this thread started!
>
>  So, imho not to loose credibility FIC/Openmoko should have a better
>  relationship with its followers relasing more informations both about
>  the project status and about the future plans.
>
>  Don't you agree?
>
>  --
>  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>  http://www.3v1n0.net/
>
>
>
>
>  ___
>  OpenMoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Matt Manjos]

I agree, that sort of thing would be a lot of work for little gain.
There has to be something internal that allows for communication
between members, however. For example, I am a big fan of the
"prototypes" page on the wiki that outlines the devices produced so
far, who has them, and what work has been done. Moving any sort of
internal tracking/memo system to the wiki/another open site would be
cool.

Matt

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:53 PM, Richard Reichenbacher
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> IMO I'd rather the dev team spend their time developing than writing blogs
>  and answering the communities every question.  Their number 1 priority is
>  getting the FreeRunner finalized and working.  Not coming up with arbitrary
>  dates that the device may or may not be ready by.  It would be better that
>  they spend a few extra months making sure the hardware is good and done than
>  finding out in those months they needed to have an extra resistor at x
>  location so that y feature would work.  The community needs to calm down,
>  relax and be patient.  Remember if you could have created the first open
>  source phone out of scratch with just a couple guys and a small company than
>  you'd be the one doing it.  Not the guys in Openmoko busting their asses to
>  try and change the world or cellular technology.
>
>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh
>  Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:34 PM
>  To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
>  Subject: Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??
>
>  A progress blog would be nice.  I don't think much more than what you
>  normally find in the Wiki and kernel mailing list would be needed.
>  Just a single place to find out what's going on.
>
>  On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 8:49 PM, "Marco Trevisan (Treviño)"
>  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano ha scritto:
>  >
>  > > 1) The Freerunner IS free, there are only some firmware things that
>  >  > aren't open and that never will be open but they are only firmware,
>  even
>  >  > your PC run something which is not open source (BIOS, graphic card
>  >  > firmware, cdrom firmware, every kind of firmware you got is generally
>  >  > closed.)
>  >
>  >  I do agree with this... Btw imho all the words written in this thread
>  >  are due to only one thing: the lack of communication by the FIC
>  >  developers (the hardware ones first of all, but also the software ones).
>  >
>  >  I think they mostly "talk" with their code, but the most part of the
>  >  community doesn't really know what they're doing and what is really
>  >  happening in Taiwan. That's why this thread started!
>  >
>  >  So, imho not to loose credibility FIC/Openmoko should have a better
>  >  relationship with its followers relasing more informations both about
>  >  the project status and about the future plans.
>  >
>  >  Don't you agree?
>  >
>  >  --
>  >  Treviño's World - Life and Linux
>  >  http://www.3v1n0.net/
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  ___
>  >  OpenMoko community mailing list
>  >  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  H. Lally Singh
>  Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
>  Virginia Tech
>
>  ___
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>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
>
>  ___
>  OpenMoko community mailing list
>  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Richard Bennett]

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:49:57 +0100, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I do agree with this... Btw imho all the words written in this thread  
are due to only one thing: the lack of communication by the FIC  
developers (the hardware ones first of all, but also the software ones).
 I think they mostly "talk" with their code, but the most part of the  
community doesn't really know what they're doing and what is really  
happening in Taiwan. That's why this thread started!
 So, imho not to loose credibility FIC/Openmoko should have a better  
relationship with its followers relasing more informations both about  
the project status and about the future plans.

 Don't you agree?


All the info is there, you just have to subscribe to the other  
mailinglists, see:

http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/
and also the feeds section:
http://planet.openmoko.org/

I think if you have time to make a weekly overview of all that info, and  
blog it somewhere, you would be providing what you are asking for...

I'd read it...


Richard


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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

Lorn Potter wrote:



Mark Haury wrote:
Marcin Juszkiewicz openembedded at haerwu.biz 
 
wrote on Sun Mar 16 11:02:12 CET 2008


Dnia Saturday 15 of March 2008, Mark Haury napisał:

In order for there to be "competition", there has to be something
available. The Trolltech Greenphone comes to mind, though, as its
availability matches the Freerunner's at this point. Not to mention
that's the origin of Qtopia that everybody seems to be running on their
Neos rather than OpenMoko. That's more than a little revealing...>


Greenphone is past now. Even Trolltech does not use it as developer 
platform - they switched to Neo1973 few months ago.


Exactly my point - the Greenphone hardware is *just* as available as Neo
hardware, since both have been sold out for some time. And the fact that
people are inclined to use Qtopia rather than Openmoko reveals something
about the the status of Openmoko...


You say that as it is a bad thing...
Rather, it revels something about the status about Qtopia.


Openmoko is not (just) software. It's a product company aiming to make 
the best open mobile devices in the world. The fact that Qtopia works is 
a tribute to our openness. The fact that it works so well is a tribute 
to Trolltech.


This is the power of Open. This is what Openmoko was created for. 
Nothing makes us more happy than to see great software running on our 
hardware.


Keep up the great work Lorn (and Co.). Over here we're working as hard 
as we can to get FreeRunner out of the factory. Things are moving nicely 
now. Pilot runs are in a few days from now.


Sean

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[Lally Singh]

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Richard Bennett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  All the info is there, you just have to subscribe to the other
>  mailinglists, see:
>
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/
>  and also the feeds section:
>  http://planet.openmoko.org/
>
>  I think if you have time to make a weekly overview of all that info, and
>  blog it somewhere, you would be providing what you are asking for...
>  I'd read it...

Yeah I've scanned planet.openmoko.org, but the signal/noise ratio for
what I want isn't very good.  I'd really just want a predicted ship
date.  If it changes, fine, but let me know.  For how open the product
is, the development phase is (unintentionally) pretty shrouded.  I
agree the data's there, but it's scattered all over the place in the
wiki.

As for doing the grunt work in providing that 5-10 lines a month of
blog data...  It's 10x harder on the outside to do it as from the
inside, and frankly I've got a dissertation to worry about.  I don't
think many in the community want to play data miner to keep the rest
of the community up-to-date.  It also sounds like some of the
community's losing their patience with this.  I'm second-guessing a
purchase myself.  I went through a long-wait-for-false-hope phase with
PalmOS 6, and am not in the mood for another one.

If they don't want to dedicate someone to writing a paragraph a month,
just CC a -progress blog when you've got something progress-relevant
to say.  A CC isn't too hard, is it?  We don't all have hours to dig
through mailing lists and the wiki to get some basic progress data.

-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: FreeRunner delayed a further 6 months?!?!??

[joerg]

The hw-designers hope they hold the "golden master" in their hands with 
version A6 currently.
Seems there are no showstoppers been found so far.
Power management is at a reasonable "some days" to "some weeks" in standby 
with GSM.
 
Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> Over here we're working as hard
> as we can to get FreeRunner out of the factory. Things are moving nicely
> now. Pilot runs are in a few days from now.

Note he didn't say "working hard to find the bugs". To me it sounds like it's 
all about ramping up the factory.

So i guess you *will* see some timeline or at least an update to be published 
in the next weeks, no more need for a _monthly_ update blog.

cheers
jOERG

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network registration from NEO! please help!

[Erin Yueh]

Hi List,

We'd like to ask your kindly helps on network registration by using your 
NEO devices. Particularly, the network from T-Mobile in UK, AT&T in USA, 
and Vodafone in Germany, since we've heard some problems about network 
registration. It's difficult to camp the network by using some specific 
SIM cards. If you are willing to update your network status with us, we 
really appreciate from your works. Thanks a lot! :)


Our questions as below:

1. What NEO device you are using? GTA01 or GTA02

2. Where is your location and what is your network provider? eg. 
T-Mobile, San Francisco in USA


3. When you boot the NEO, how long it takes to register the network? eg. 
in normal case, it should be able to register to a network in 1~2 
minutes immediately.


4. What is your GSM firmware version? you can get this number by an AT 
command. Using SSH to your NEO, then type this command:


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd
libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc.
This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY

AT+CGMR
STR=`AT+CGMR'
RSTR=`+CGMR: "HW: GTA02BV5, GSM: 
gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko6"'


5. What is your IMEI code? by this AT command like previous steps.
AT+CGSN
STR=`AT+CGSN'
RSTR=`+CGSN: 000'

6. if NEO takes over 3 minutes to register to the network or it just 
re-register to the network again and again. Please attach your gsm log 
file ('/tmp/gsm.log') to our bugzilla, we already created a bug for this 
issue.

http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024


PS. Check our wiki site, if you have problems on these stuff.

How to use SSH on NEO:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking
How to use libgsmd-tool:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd


Best Regards,
Erin

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Re: network registration from NEO! please help!

[Wolfgang Spraul]

cool. Should we create a wiki page to collect the results?
Wolfgang

On Mar 17, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Erin Yueh wrote:


Hi List,

We'd like to ask your kindly helps on network registration by using  
your NEO devices. Particularly, the network from T-Mobile in UK,  
AT&T in USA, and Vodafone in Germany, since we've heard some  
problems about network registration. It's difficult to camp the  
network by using some specific SIM cards. If you are willing to  
update your network status with us, we really appreciate from your  
works. Thanks a lot! :)


Our questions as below:

1. What NEO device you are using? GTA01 or GTA02

2. Where is your location and what is your network provider? eg. T- 
Mobile, San Francisco in USA


3. When you boot the NEO, how long it takes to register the network?  
eg. in normal case, it should be able to register to a network in  
1~2 minutes immediately.


4. What is your GSM firmware version? you can get this number by an  
AT command. Using SSH to your NEO, then type this command:


[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# libgsmd-tool -m atcmd
libgsm-tool - (C) 2006-2007 by Harald Welte and OpenMoko, Inc.
This program is Free Software and has ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY

AT+CGMR
STR=`AT+CGMR'
RSTR=`+CGMR: "HW: GTA02BV5, GSM:  
gsm_ac_gp_fd_pu_em_cph_ds_vc_cal35_ri_36_amd8_ts0-Moko6"'


5. What is your IMEI code? by this AT command like previous steps.
AT+CGSN
STR=`AT+CGSN'
RSTR=`+CGSN: 000'

6. if NEO takes over 3 minutes to register to the network or it just  
re-register to the network again and again. Please attach your gsm  
log file ('/tmp/gsm.log') to our bugzilla, we already created a bug  
for this issue.

http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1024


PS. Check our wiki site, if you have problems on these stuff.

How to use SSH on NEO:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking
How to use libgsmd-tool:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd


Best Regards,
Erin




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