Re: openmoko and gnuradio
i've just find out this amazing project, and one thing i wonder is if there should be posible (or maybe openmoko is thinking already about this) to design a mobile phone with the necesary hardware to run gnuradio. with that kind of architecture we could access all the rf spectrum so we could have a really evil machine... :P Lets see, on the hardware side, I believe you are going to need an exciter, tuned circuit, rf amplifiers, adc/dac. These will need to be specially formulated for wide spectrum use and take up a little more space than is available. The power requirements are also more than is available. And I don't know what interface you want to talk to it by. While in principle possible, you do realise that digital radio takes several to many thousand times the power that a special purpose radio takes? For example, you can get FM stereo receivers that will work off 1.8V at a milliamp or two. And that's before we even get onto the legal issues. SDR with user modifiable software, especially on the transmit side, is a nonstarter given the regulation of radio devices in many (most?) jurisdictions. This isn't a problem if you are a radio ham and plan to add the software yourself (following your jurisdictions regulations), else it's receive only. -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Feds snub open source for 'smart' radios
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:38:51 +0200 Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad Midgley wrote: Hey This got me thinking about how flexible the radio is. Is the sim card wired right into the gsm module? It would be nice if the phone could play nice with sim access profile (SAP) either by sharing the sim credentials with another device or by gaining sim credentials from another device and setting up the gsm radio to use them. Would the hardware allow for this? Brad the gsm/gprs modules handles accessing the airwaves, and does all that's required by the protocol to do so by itself, independently from whatever software controls it via AT commands. the SIM card contains your subscription informations, such as customer ID and the like. there is nothing in the openmoko that the FCC would refuse validating. the phone itself is *NOT* a Software Defined Radio. on the other hand, the hardware developped by the Gnu Radio Project is a Software Defined Radio and will be subject to this crap, and they don't feel like they are much concerned about it, so I guess the openmoko crowd shouldn't be concerned at all. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I got my radio ham license at 12/13 and the opensource SDR community is a radio ham community. Radio hams are allowed to do what they want on the spectrum as long as they obey the rules and do it for their own education. So GNUradio aren't worried as the devs themselves are exempt (sam with HPSDR). -- Ewan Marshall (ewanm89) Geek by nature, Linux by choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-shirts in the US
Sounds like a cool (and very large!) community. The .com site should be okay. They already state that they ship to Australia. The .net site, where the shirt designs started, doesn't ship to Oz. Now that the shirts are available on both sites, that should provide a good range of delivery choices for OpenMokoists. Just ordered my shirts. Huzzah! Richard Lussier wrote: The community I volunteer for has a t-shirt store at Spreadshirt.com. http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=100171 We can get things delivered in Canada and we are very happy with the service. Maybe it's just a config matter to get them to ship anywhere. We maintain a wireless community network with 150 hotspots and 40,000 users in Montreal Canada. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Chandler Sent: 10 juillet 2007 03:03 To: Daniel Willmann Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: t-shirts in the US On Mon, Jul 09, 2007 at 05:57:25PM +0200, Daniel Willmann wrote: Hi, On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:50:15 -0700 Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not familiar with spreadshirt's stuff, but I know that some of the shirts on cafepress are done with a direct dye process(dye goes directly into the fabric)... which means no big plasticy sticky thing on the shirt(I really hate that stuff). If spreadshirts can give the same thing, I don't really have a preference, but I'm all for cafepress otherwise (you will have to select the direct dye (don't remember their name, but it's obvious) option when you create the shirt itself)-- and check that the stock shirt you select has that option well I went with spreadshirt because I already know that interface. Also cafepress doesn't seem to accept vector graphics (.eps). The printing technique used is Flock print which is probably not what you prefer (it has a furry surface), but it is quite durable. Anyway, the shop is at: http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=128333 Regards, Daniel Willmann This is great news for me because I live in Australia. spreadsshirt.net seemes only to deliver to european coutries mainly. If it's possible, could you add another design that's the opposite of the first design? I'd like a shirt that has the big logo on the front. Whether it has Free your phone or nothing on the back doesn't bother me. BTW, thanks greatly for organising shirts on both sites! Mark C. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Finally I received another response from OpenMoko Shop
Hi! I want to share with you that I received another mail from OpenMoko Shop which seems to be sent to everyone. Here it goes (if anyone's curious): Dear Valued Customer, since there has been some misunderstanding, we just want you to confirm one more time that you are aware that our products at this point in time ARE NOT END-USER DEVICES! So please let us warn you one more time: THIS IS A DEVELOPER RELEASE, NOT A CONSUMER PRODUCT!| For more information about what to expect from this very early developer preview, please see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview If you would like to continue this purchase, please reply to this email with the simple string YES_I_DO (all uppercase and with underscores) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response to this email. If you choose to cancel your order, please reply using the word CANCEL (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. Please note that it is important to leave the subject of the mail intact, and that your response comes from the original email that you used to make this order. Also, if you ordered at a point in time where there was no color selection available in the shop, your order has been automatically marked as BLACK/SILVER. If this is fine with you, there is no additional action required. If you wish to receive the WHITE/ORANGE design, please send a mail with the word ORANGE (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. We apologize for any inconvenience, The OpenMoko order processing team It's good to know that OM team is working hard to process all these request and it seems that the project has drawn realy big attention ;-) cheers cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finally I received another response from OpenMoko Shop
yeah... I got one of those too... I don't want to bother any of the guys... but it sure would be nice to get a we received your reply email, it's cool you're a developer, and we've reserved the orange model you requested(yeah, I'm down with the orange... ya'll can have the boring black and silver ;-) ), but personally I definately put priority on the great work ya'll have been doing over there in taiwan Thank you so much --Jeff On 7/14/07, Krzysztof Kajkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I want to share with you that I received another mail from OpenMoko Shop which seems to be sent to everyone. Here it goes (if anyone's curious): Dear Valued Customer, since there has been some misunderstanding, we just want you to confirm one more time that you are aware that our products at this point in time ARE NOT END-USER DEVICES! So please let us warn you one more time: THIS IS A DEVELOPER RELEASE, NOT A CONSUMER PRODUCT!| For more information about what to expect from this very early developer preview, please see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Developer_preview If you would like to continue this purchase, please reply to this email with the simple string YES_I_DO (all uppercase and with underscores) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response to this email. If you choose to cancel your order, please reply using the word CANCEL (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. Please note that it is important to leave the subject of the mail intact, and that your response comes from the original email that you used to make this order. Also, if you ordered at a point in time where there was no color selection available in the shop, your order has been automatically marked as BLACK/SILVER. If this is fine with you, there is no additional action required. If you wish to receive the WHITE/ORANGE design, please send a mail with the word ORANGE (uppercase) at the beginning of an otherwise empty line of your response email. We apologize for any inconvenience, The OpenMoko order processing team It's good to know that OM team is working hard to process all these request and it seems that the project has drawn realy big attention ;-) cheers cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Open Source In Mobile (OSiM) conference, September, Spain
You are not alone ;-) 2007/7/13, José Ignacio [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You'll be welcome to come here to Spain! :) By the way, as I seem to be the only Spaniard here, do you know the meaning of 'Moko' in Spanish? It's hard to tell people here about your great platform after they listen to its name! It might be a marketing barrier when the phone reaches Spanish speaking countries... Hopefully, the phone will be too good and it won't be a problem ;) Congratulations! José Ignacio 2007/7/13, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Jul 12, 2007, at 2:31 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From their website: The World's Largest Forum for Mobile Linux and Open Source OSiM 2007 responds to the explosive growth of Open Source and Linux integration in mobile devices. It provides the information you require as you enter this complex space; bringing together the key players in this new ecosystem for hundreds of networking and partnership opportunities. http://www.osimconference.com/newt/l/handsetsvision/osim/index.html Anyone going to be there? If there is no official OpenMoko representation, perhaps one of you would organize a BoF? Mickey, Harald, and I will all be there. This will be our one year anniversary where things all began ;-) -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- J. Manrique López de la Fuente http://www.jsmanrique.net msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
I think that - most of the openmoko related blog readers now are developpers. They like to be informed of what kind of difficulties developers are facing right now. They (we) can be patient. I like to read positive news, but if truth is not made clear in the blogs, I would begin to think this device not is not as open as it claims to be :) - the success of this phone will go through mass marketing and selling, and most of buyers will *not* read blogs or negative press coverage that had happen before. my 0.02 euros, Mickael Toulouse, France On 7/13/07, Simon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blogging imo, is all about marketing, and whether it is positive or negative, still imo, all that counts is the size of the impact. Think of scandals, do they do any real damages to those stars? They're still quite much in business! Also, the fact that negative aspect of this quest for freedom is being shared, is so you can feel the reality of the challenge too. All in all, these are all secret techniques to induce genuine happiness in all of you who are waiting! =) Simon On 7/13/07, Mohammed Musallam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree no one should panic. But the guys at openmoko should take their blogs more seriously and stop putting frustrations. remember alot of eyes are upon them these days. they should put their best foot up front. (i think thats how it goes ;)) and look more professional to be taken seriously. thats my 0.02$ - Original Message From: Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:17:36 AM Subject: Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties? FIC is still a corporation. I'm sure there are many other software developers on this list that can attest that there's more to software development than coding. I suspect it's the other stuff that is bothering Harold. As far as no phones shipping: we knew they wouldn't ship right away. When Sean made the announcement on July 9th, he said the phones were waiting in customs and would then be shipped to California. This has taken more than 5 days now. I think it's a little early to panic. On 7/13/07, Jason Elwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Found on LXer: OpenMoko already facing difficulties? http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/89804/index.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community All new Yahoo! Mail - Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Mickael. Coding an AI ! http://faivrem.googlepages.com/antbattle ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: order confirmation numbers
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:21:59 +0200 Visti Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As the advanced unit was only depicted in black/silver I did't write any note regarding the colour of the unit. As this has changed I tried to write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (with the [rt.internal.openmoko.org #18xx] included in the subject), telling them that I liked the black/silver combination. (And querying about the status of the order confirmation) black/silver was the default colour was black/silver (confirmed by an e-mail and the SH1_FAQ) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ#How_do_I_select_a_color.3F_.2F_What_color_did_I_order.3F This only gave me an e-mail with the subject Could not load a valid user And the message: RT could not load a valid user, and RT's configuration does not allow for the creation of a new user for your email. This error was caused by the fact that I used one e-mail when ordering and another when replying to the e-mail (the one in the order I have a domain name for, but I have no direct smtp access to the e-mail server. I like to list the one with the domain name as it follows me no matter which ISP I have in the future) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Cannot reply to the email with YES_I_DO so I have ordered again
I accidentally originally ordered my OpenMoko using the email [EMAIL PROTECTED] when my email address is actually [EMAIL PROTECTED](explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#United_Kingdom). Mail sent to @gmail.com rather than @googlemail.com still reaches me, but it will not allow me to send from @gmail.com. I assume it is because of this that when I contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] with [rt.internal.openmoko.org #] I get an error RT could not load a valid user, and RT's configuration does not allow for the creation of a new user for your email. So I just get an error when I reply and say YES_I_DO to the email asking me if I'm absolutely sure I want this developer preview. Rather than try to spoof the @gmail.com email address, I am ignoring that order and have placed another one using the correct email address. I hope that if I now cannot get a phone from the first batch I will be given an opportunity to cancel rather than wait another month for more to be manufactured. I also hope I don't receive two orders! Justyn. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
You mean to get Openmoko sw running on the iCrap^WPhone? This is pervert, but nice ;) -w- Mike wrote: Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: natural selection
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:39:41 +0200 Christian Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I begin to wonder if there is some game to play. Perhaps LaForges blogentry and that shop mail would filter those I just want a Neo to play but i'm still not sure what i will do with it-people - like me. Not enough phones for creative guys? Greez I'm quite certain that the YES_I_DO e-mail is just a curtsy and safe guard. They are just trying to avoid disappointed customers, it's after all an expensive device, that just isn't ready to be used (by my mom) yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Again: Advertising thoughts
Hi list, I'm a little bit concerned about advertising issues. I've seen the existing OpenMoko ads - I like them though I think they wouldn't do the whole job. What about ol' grandma, she doesn't want no phone with command line ;-) We need to care about low-feature users, too. Users that are technophobes and fear any kind of adjustment possible (possibly rendering their phone useless). AFAIK the iPhone is brilliant at intuitive functionality which is what we _need_. Absolutely. I created a new paragraph concerning advertising ordered by different target groups. Please contribute and give feedback! :-) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Advertising#Thoughts.2C_Notions tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
On Saturday 14 July 2007 13:54:30 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about ol' grandma, she doesn't want no phone with command line ;-) We need to care about low-feature users, too. Users that are IMNSHO, low feature users neither want nor should pay 300-450$ for a phone. A 40$ Nokia 1110 much better suited for them (I can get those together with a prepay SIM card for like 20$ in Switzerland). Right now, the target demographics is more the people who might buy a Symbian S60 or a Windows Mobile phone, neither of which would qualify as low feature users, in general (unless they got sold totally overpowered phones in the store, which I wouldn't totally rule out). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: A little bad press? OpenMoko already facing difficulties?
On Friday 13 July 2007 23:54, Simon wrote: Also, the fact that negative aspect of this quest for freedom is being shared, is so you can feel the reality of the challenge too. All in all, these are all secret techniques to induce genuine happiness in all of you who are waiting! =) I'm glad to read the post on the blog! Each company/product has its problems. Some struggle with patchy software, badly designed hardware or other technical problems. Some suffer from a cocaine hungry boss that manages to stuff up the cashflow. Some suffer from logistical problems or growning too fast. Business will not be without problems. I'm glad, though that the general opinion is not a technical problem. That means that I can quietly have fun once the logistical dilemma has managed to get the phone to me. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Support for Left handers
Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Again: Advertising thoughts
You are right about that. Nevertheless, people who would buy Windows Mobile/Symbian will be even more gracious for a easy to handle phone. But we should bare in mind that there are more OpenMoko-phones to come (as announced), AFAIK also a small one. tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
But you shouldn't forget the people who aren't so technical and still want to have a phone that can do a lot, there are loads running around with win mobile phones. They won't be attracted by the ads showing how they can be freed, cause they won't care if they are free or not, they just want to be able to use the thing. So maybe some ads could also just show how very easy the neo is to work with ;) Just my thoughts.. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
On 14 Jul 2007, at 13:29, Edwin Lock wrote: But you shouldn't forget the people who aren't so technical and still want to have a phone that can do a lot, there are loads running around with win mobile phones. They won't be attracted by the ads showing how they can be freed, cause they won't care if they are free or not, they just want to be able to use the thing. So maybe some ads could also just show how very easy the neo is to work with ;) Just my thoughts.. I understand where you are coming from. When designing mobile interfaces it's not good enough to simply try to cut down the WIMP to fit in a phone. Both Symbian and Windows Mobile both borrow from the desktop. It would be nice if we can think outside the box and think about what is easy to use. Too many touch screen devices don't use screen space well. Make the buttons large and you can use your fingers. If you minimise the time using the stylus then you eliminate a huge section of the public who don't want to use a stylus (yes I know the Nintendo DS has one and has sold 40 million ;)). I would say the main reason for using the stylus is drawing lines. Using fingers to touch is less precise, but you could have an interface that zooms, touch and hold an area to zoom that area, you can then touch more accurately the item you want. Would be possible with the additional 3D hardware in the consumer hardware. Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I have noticed some suggestions for managing the touchscreen which would be difficult for people lacking part of an important finger. Arthriticky tendencies in those remaining wont help either sigh Hoping for easy stylus management... clare On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: t-shirts in the US
I think it would be nice to add a T-Shirt design that had the large openmoko logo on the front and the free you phone on the back. There is one there similar but it is reversed. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. I agree with this. As a lefty on the N800, this can become quite a pain. One nice thing about the N800 interface is inside the webrowser you can scroll anywhere in the window like your moving a piece of paper. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I am left handed. Considerations of this sort could be a great feature for the Neo. -Jason On Saturday 14 July 2007 07:18:10 Giles Jones wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
X Server MultiTouch Support
Some other people have already added MultiTouch support to X Server. All that would be needed would be a screen capable of recognizing this. http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/4072/microsoft_surface_watch -- ~ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ -Edmund Burke- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Cannot reply to the email with YES_I_DO so I have ordered again
Justyn Butler wrote: I accidentally originally ordered my OpenMoko using the email [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] when my email address is actually [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#United_Kingdom). Mail sent to @gmail.com http://gmail.com rather than @ googlemail.com http://googlemail.com still reaches me, but it will not allow me to send from @gmail.com http://gmail.com. I had a similar issue (I used a @pobox.com address which just forwards to gmail on my order). Setting the Reply-To: on my reply to the address I ordered from seems to have worked. -casey ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
First of all I really don't think its the legislatures business to prevent a company from making their device however they want. The consumers are dumb enough to buy it, thats their problem. Secondly I fail to see what the 700MHz sale has to do with that. It will have not affect on the iPhone because it doesn't use the 700Mhz frequency and if they are forced to meet these proposed requirements cell phones will never use said frequency, as their are several other perfectly good ones to use. So these people are either just trying to get support from some idiots that believe what they say, or are themselves idiots. And If this offends you then see the above paragraph and guess which category I put you in. On 7/13/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Problem with emial order confirmation
I ordered the neo1973 on the first day the openmoko.com site went live. Today I received a message, saying that to confirm the order, I must reply to the email with a message containing (as the first characters of an otherwise empty line) the string YES_I_DO . However, when I sent that reply, the email bounced back with a subject line Message not recorded and a text body saying Permission Denied. Is this happening to other customers too? If not, can anyone hazard a guess about why I can't send email to openmoko.com, even as a reply to a message they sent me? I have found that if I send an email without the order information in the subject line, the email does not bounce (but nobody replies either). But messages with the special subject string they say to use in corespondences about my order always bounce. Have I been blacklisted? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. On 7/14/07, Edwin Lock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 14 Jul 2007, at 17:57, Edwin Lock wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) Indeed, many vendors overlook such things. I'm amazed Microsoft did too, isn't Bill Gates left handed? Other things you need to consider is colour blindness, don't rely on colour too much to distinguish buttons. These are all basic HCI issues, I have an interest in such things. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem with emial order confirmation
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:34:02 -0400 (EDT) Ken Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I ordered the neo1973 on the first day the openmoko.com site went live. Today I received a message, saying that to confirm the order, I must reply to the email with a message containing (as the first characters of an otherwise empty line) the string YES_I_DO . However, when I sent that reply, the email bounced back with a subject line Message not recorded and a text body saying Permission Denied. Is this happening to other customers too? If not, can anyone hazard a guess about why I can't send email to openmoko.com, even as a reply to a message they sent me? I have found that if I send an email without the order information in the subject line, the email does not bounce (but nobody replies either). But messages with the special subject string they say to use in corespondences about my order always bounce. Have I been blacklisted? Any chance that you used a different e-mail address when replying to the e-mail that you stated as you e-mail address when ordering. I have had some problems with this, admittedly I got a different error, but then again it was when I tried to reply to the 'order received' auto mail. Perhaps the 'YES_I_DO' generates a different error message? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Problem with emial order confirmation
Ken Young wrote: I ordered the neo1973 on the first day the openmoko.com site went live. Today I received a message, saying that to confirm the order, I must reply to the email with a message containing (as the first characters of an otherwise empty line) the string YES_I_DO . However, when I sent that reply, the email bounced back with a subject line Message not recorded and a text body saying Permission Denied. Is this happening to other customers too? Are you sure you're replying from exactly the same email address as you used to place the order? It worked for me and for others, but I did mine last night If not, can anyone hazard a guess about why I can't send email to openmoko.com, even as a reply to a message they sent me? I have found that if I send an email without the order information in the subject line, the email does not bounce (but nobody replies either). But messages with the special subject string they say to use in corespondences about my order always bounce. Have I been blacklisted? Why speculate - maybe something got corrupted on their server or a disk filled up. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Um, er, it's not my web site, and I haven't said I support their effort. I said I figure we should be aware... of this effort they're doing... m Mark wrote: First of all I really don't think its the legislatures business to prevent a company from making their device however they want. The consumers are dumb enough to buy it, thats their problem. Secondly I fail to see what the 700MHz sale has to do with that. It will have not affect on the iPhone because it doesn't use the 700Mhz frequency and if they are forced to meet these proposed requirements cell phones will never use said frequency, as their are several other perfectly good ones to use. So these people are either just trying to get support from some idiots that believe what they say, or are themselves idiots. And If this offends you then see the above paragraph and guess which category I put you in. On 7/13/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. I don't think the whole screen should be mirrored! There are some elements that should remain..like the main top bar with the status icons and such. Scrollbars are the main thing I can think of right now. I agree a wiki page should be added for left handed ui discussion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
I would agree, I didn't really think when saying it should be mirrored ;) I thought about it and at the moment I think only the scrollbar should be changed.. But I am still a little confused about how an application gets closed? I can't see an X anywhere, and I couldn't find any information in the wiki just now.. Because that might be handier on the left-hand side too if it isn't already.. Just my 0,02€ ;) OT: Anyone have information about emulating openmoko in OS X? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Added section for a left-handed mode to the UI Improvements page. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/UI_Improvements#Left-handed_UI_Support Regards, Jason1 On Saturday 14 July 2007 13:21:33 Jae Stutzman wrote: On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. I don't think the whole screen should be mirrored! There are some elements that should remain..like the main top bar with the status icons and such. Scrollbars are the main thing I can think of right now. I agree a wiki page should be added for left handed ui discussion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: X Server MultiTouch Support
I agree Joshua. Have seen this vid awhile back, it would be great. We all the onscreen keyboard wont be so great with single touch, its just a fact. Something like this would change everything, and, as mentioned in the article, would make it so that you could use compiz also? A cube on your phone? It would be just plain insane. -bk On 7/14/07, Joshua Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some other people have already added MultiTouch support to X Server. All that would be needed would be a screen capable of recognizing this. http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/entry/4072/microsoft_surface_watch -- ~ All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ -Edmund Burke- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
I'm with the idiots for a wireless carterfone decision. I don't think we were better off with with renting landline phones from ATT. There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. The idiots other website: http://www.savetheinternet.com/ Mark wrote: First of all I really don't think its the legislatures business to prevent a company from making their device however they want. The consumers are dumb enough to buy it, thats their problem. Secondly I fail to see what the 700MHz sale has to do with that. It will have not affect on the iPhone because it doesn't use the 700Mhz frequency and if they are forced to meet these proposed requirements cell phones will never use said frequency, as their are several other perfectly good ones to use. So these people are either just trying to get support from some idiots that believe what they say, or are themselves idiots. And If this offends you then see the above paragraph and guess which category I put you in. On 7/13/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just launched today, I figure we should be aware. Maybe we could turn this into an opportunity to increase awareness of the neo: http://freetheiphone.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re:Problem with emial order confirmation
Ken Young writes: I ordered the neo1973 on the first day the openmoko.com site went live. Today I received a message, saying that to confirm the order, I must reply to the email with a message containing (as the first characters of an otherwise empty line) the string YES_I_DO . However, when I sent that reply, the email bounced back with a subject line Message not recorded and a text body saying Permission Denied. Worked for me did you send from the same email address you ordered from? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
It's the same as a lost or stolen GSM phone. You can have your provider block the IMEI from registering. You can still use that phone on another provider but not with the provider that blocked it. I would not put the idea of blocking foreign IMEI aside as a carrier could this under the guise of ensuring network integrity. -adam Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Adam Krikstone writes: I'm with the idiots for a wireless carterfone decision. I don't think we were better off with with renting landline phones from ATT. There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. I'll agree that not permitting locked phones would be a good thing -- but I was under the impression it wasn't technically possible to lock out a phone. Unless they used a soldered SIM chip or something. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Adam Krikstone writes: I'm with the idiots for a wireless carterfone decision. I don't think we were better off with with renting landline phones from ATT. There's nothing stopping a GSM provider from blocking all unbranded IMEI's, including your neo. I'll agree that not permitting locked phones would be a good thing -- but I was under the impression it wasn't technically possible to lock out a phone. Unless they used a soldered SIM chip or something. '3' in the UK have supplied some handsets with glued-in SIMs. (to be fair, these are 3G handsets and are sold as pay-as-you-go handsets at a high loss.) The IMEI is a unique phone ID. (and indeed, changing it without the makers authorisation or for the purposes of crime is a crime in the UK) There is nothing stopping network operators simply refusing to allow phones with unknown IMEIs onto the network. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
Adam Krikstone writes: It's the same as a lost or stolen GSM phone. You can have your provider block the IMEI from registering. You can still use that phone on another provider but not with the provider that blocked it. I would not put the idea of blocking foreign IMEI aside as a carrier could this under the guise of ensuring network integrity. Ah, of course. Don't know what I was thinking. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
3G SIMs?
I have a question about SIM cards. If I have a 3G phone with its 3G SIM, will I be able to put that SIM in the Neo? My carrier is ATT in the US. I think the answer is yes, because ATT is having their old Cingular customers upgrade to new 3G SIMs to put in their phones even if they're 2G GSM phones (the 3G SIMs are supposed to be better at choosing between Cingular and ATT towers). Can anyone confirm that it'll work with the Neo? Thanks, Marco -- In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion. - Carl Sagan, astronomer and writer (1934-1996) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
Shouldn't the spinner thing replace scrollbars, though? What else would it be for? On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. On 7/14/07, Edwin Lock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
All finger buttons should be easily usable with a stylus. We are not the iPhone. On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed some suggestions for managing the touchscreen which would be difficult for people lacking part of an important finger. Arthriticky tendencies in those remaining wont help either sigh Hoping for easy stylus management... clare On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
I'm the guy that did the youtube videos. For those that would like to hear my opinion on advertising. This would apply to the public launch. 1. Don't mention linux ever. Refer to things as open, free, unrestricted, etc... while showing what that means. 2. Don't compare the neo side by side with the iphone, WM, etc, especially along the lines of a PC vs Mac type commercial. At least at first when things will not be as polished as they should be. People need to be shown not told how great openmoko is. You're asking people to try a product with an unknown brand that they have no experience with. 3. 95% of all effort after a stable build is completed should go to aGPS applications and use. No other phone offers aGPS [benefits] for free. People are paying $9.99/month, have to purchase BT GPS puks ($99+), or have nothing at all. This feature will cross all demographics and should be the main focus. I can probably list 50 things alone that would make people want this device over anything. 4. KISS (keep it simple stupid). Max of 3 button presses to get to what you want to do. Minimalistic with little to no stylus use. Menu settings like Basic, intermediate, advanced for options that are displayed---basic being the default. 5. The QEMU process of demoing the Openmoko platform needs to be dumbed down tremendously. Pre-built Win32 binaries -- you just lost 99% of all users. Boot time shortened and a splash to hide text startup. 6. There needs to be some kind of openmokoforums.com. The mailing list will become more useless as non developers start using the phone and posting, My phone doesn't work. Help me. 7. Most everything else can be designed by taking dumb and going 5 steps below that for a public launch. Strengths: open source, consumer in control, bugs fixed in days vs months/years aGPS Weakness: Openmoko forks as people fight over what is included. lack of developer base Poor launch/support. Opportunities: ***aGPS support for restricted formats (third party repositories) USB/BT devices addons, uses, and integration. Threats: I guess this is FIC's problem. Greg Alexander wrote: On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 01:52:20PM +0100, Giles Jones wrote: I understand where you are coming from. When designing mobile interfaces it's not good enough to simply try to cut down the WIMP to fit in a phone. Both Symbian and Windows Mobile both borrow from the desktop. It would be nice if we can think outside the box and think about what is easy to use. Too many touch screen devices don't use screen space well. Make the buttons large and you can use your fingers. In my opinion, Symbian and Windows Mobile are both thinking outside the box. This box was invented by Palm and culminated in the Palm Vx. EPOC (Symbian) and Wince both take major departures from the status quo through retard land, resulting in unfortunate products. I think OpenMoko developers would benefit from playing with PalmOS. The applications are as minimal as the iphone apps, but unlike Apple engineering, they rarely demonstrate an infuriating lack of features. There are numerous examples of open source apps which follow the Wince path instead and it drives me batty. I mean, the technology and marketting behind Palm is so retarded, they are essentially making the same device they made 8 years ago but now it costs more and has less battery life. Few of the core Palm apps actually benefits from the new color screen or ARM core. Why aren't they completely gone yet? Because they invented the box, and they did it well. If you minimise the time using the stylus then you eliminate a huge section of the public who don't want to use a stylus (yes I know the Nintendo DS has one and has sold 40 million ;)). I would say the main reason for using the stylus is drawing lines. There will be no time using a stylus. This device does not have an integrated stylus, so the fact that one will work is a red herring. Treat it like an iphone, which will not detect a stylus even if you ram it through the glass. If you are the one out of ten developers that carries a stylus around with you and uses it for everything, be aware that you are in a minority. The closest the device will see in its actual usage profile is fingernails, which are good at onscreen keyboards and certain fine gestures. But many people don't have them. Using fingers to touch is less precise, but you could have an interface that zooms, touch and hold an area to zoom that area, you can then touch more accurately the item you want. Would be possible with the additional 3D hardware in the consumer hardware. Zooming is a horrible UI design and is only necessary to use desktop UIs on palmtops, or of course to view graphical content (maps, photos). The only situation in which a desktop UI should be used in OpenMoko is in the web browser, and the web browser will need zooming. (sigh) I hope I do not offend...I've just
Re: Again: Advertising thoughts
I agree with all of this, and I want to add that the aGPS stuff is our counter to the iphone's camera. Inevitably there will be side by side comparisons after launch (every phone will be compared to the iphone), and the gps is our counter to the camera. I also think that the general public associates linux with not easy to use. m Adam Krikstone wrote: I'm the guy that did the youtube videos. For those that would like to hear my opinion on advertising. This would apply to the public launch. 1. Don't mention linux ever. Refer to things as open, free, unrestricted, etc... while showing what that means. 2. Don't compare the neo side by side with the iphone, WM, etc, especially along the lines of a PC vs Mac type commercial. At least at first when things will not be as polished as they should be. People need to be shown not told how great openmoko is. You're asking people to try a product with an unknown brand that they have no experience with. 3. 95% of all effort after a stable build is completed should go to aGPS applications and use. No other phone offers aGPS [benefits] for free. People are paying $9.99/month, have to purchase BT GPS puks ($99+), or have nothing at all. This feature will cross all demographics and should be the main focus. I can probably list 50 things alone that would make people want this device over anything. 4. KISS (keep it simple stupid). Max of 3 button presses to get to what you want to do. Minimalistic with little to no stylus use. Menu settings like Basic, intermediate, advanced for options that are displayed---basic being the default. 5. The QEMU process of demoing the Openmoko platform needs to be dumbed down tremendously. Pre-built Win32 binaries -- you just lost 99% of all users. Boot time shortened and a splash to hide text startup. 6. There needs to be some kind of openmokoforums.com. The mailing list will become more useless as non developers start using the phone and posting, My phone doesn't work. Help me. 7. Most everything else can be designed by taking dumb and going 5 steps below that for a public launch. Strengths: open source, consumer in control, bugs fixed in days vs months/years aGPS Weakness: Openmoko forks as people fight over what is included. lack of developer base Poor launch/support. Opportunities: ***aGPS support for restricted formats (third party repositories) USB/BT devices addons, uses, and integration. Threats: I guess this is FIC's problem. Greg Alexander wrote: On Sat, Jul 14, 2007 at 01:52:20PM +0100, Giles Jones wrote: I understand where you are coming from. When designing mobile interfaces it's not good enough to simply try to cut down the WIMP to fit in a phone. Both Symbian and Windows Mobile both borrow from the desktop. It would be nice if we can think outside the box and think about what is easy to use. Too many touch screen devices don't use screen space well. Make the buttons large and you can use your fingers. In my opinion, Symbian and Windows Mobile are both thinking outside the box. This box was invented by Palm and culminated in the Palm Vx. EPOC (Symbian) and Wince both take major departures from the status quo through retard land, resulting in unfortunate products. I think OpenMoko developers would benefit from playing with PalmOS. The applications are as minimal as the iphone apps, but unlike Apple engineering, they rarely demonstrate an infuriating lack of features. There are numerous examples of open source apps which follow the Wince path instead and it drives me batty. I mean, the technology and marketting behind Palm is so retarded, they are essentially making the same device they made 8 years ago but now it costs more and has less battery life. Few of the core Palm apps actually benefits from the new color screen or ARM core. Why aren't they completely gone yet? Because they invented the box, and they did it well. If you minimise the time using the stylus then you eliminate a huge section of the public who don't want to use a stylus (yes I know the Nintendo DS has one and has sold 40 million ;)). I would say the main reason for using the stylus is drawing lines. There will be no time using a stylus. This device does not have an integrated stylus, so the fact that one will work is a red herring. Treat it like an iphone, which will not detect a stylus even if you ram it through the glass. If you are the one out of ten developers that carries a stylus around with you and uses it for everything, be aware that you are in a minority. The closest the device will see in its actual usage profile is fingernails, which are good at onscreen keyboards and certain fine gestures. But many people don't have them. Using fingers to touch is less precise, but you could have an interface that zooms, touch and hold an area to zoom that area, you can then touch more accurately the item you want. Would be possible with the
Re: Support for Left handers
Joe Friedrichsen writes: On 7/14/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shouldn't the spinner thing replace scrollbars, though? What else would it be for? Here here! I very much like the idea of not having scrollbars. If anything, maybe a narrow indicator that shows relative position in the document. We have a *touch screen* folks! Why use a widget that was made to replace tactile interaction when the whole screen can be a widget? Seems like a little overly zealous retrofitting. . . This carburettor will fit on the electric car, dag nab it! ;-) Having the scrollbar as an indicator of relative position in the document is really helpful. I'm afraid I missed the message describing the spinner thing and a quick look in the archive didn't turn it up -- how would it work? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: natural selection
On 7/14/07, Visti Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:39:41 +0200 Christian Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I begin to wonder if there is some game to play. Perhaps LaForges blogentry and that shop mail would filter those I just want a Neo to play but i'm still not sure what i will do with it-people - like me. Not enough phones for creative guys? Greez I'm quite certain that the YES_I_DO e-mail is just a curtsy and safe guard. They are just trying to avoid disappointed customers, it's after all an expensive device, that just isn't ready to be used (by my mom) yet. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ok, as a (very) interested developer, I'm seeing some issues here. There are a bunch of you who'd love to get your hands on a phone, and start playing with it. I also know that there were less than 1000 phones that made it out of QA from this first round. Sean's stated they've got a 4-6 week lead time. If all or most of those first round phones go to people who aren't developing, that puts us back a month or more. If the October release is going to happen on time, the software must be ready too, which means that we need developers working on it now Coming from the other side, however, I've also seen how important good testers are, and most of those are NOT developers. Most developer test reports I've seen are tend to be haphazard and biased (especially if they don't want to admit that something they wrote caused the problem (if ya'll think I'm being harsh, realize I lump myself in here too... seriously, this is one place where our egos get in the way)) Personally, I think the optimum solution is a second run of GTA01 phones go out in like early august, with these earmarked for alpha/beta testers. Yeah, I realize it's a while to wait, and I spent the last 9 months trying not to pee my pants with anticipation too, but in addition to having a toy to play with right now, we have to think beyond this first release... we've gotten quite a bit of press talk, and if we want to be anything other than another phone that tried to compete with the iPhone, we've got to really make a good impression at launch time, it's something we're going to have to all work for to make happen. While trying not to sound like a douche-bag (and probably failing miserably)I see purchasing one of these from the first limited release as a promise and obligation to spend my time to improve the system... otherwise I'm just taking it from someone else who would -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/15/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . We have a *touch screen* folks! Why use a widget that was made to replace tactile interaction when the whole screen can be a widget? Seems like a little overly zealous retrofitting. . . This carburettor will fit on the electric car, dag nab it! ;-) quite, Acrobat does it, But even better my laptop has a synaptics touchpad, and Seamonkey can make use of it. stroke up and down the right side to scroll the web page, stroke across the bottom to zoom or unzoom. (But it is a bit sensitive, I hate the thought of accidentally dialling someone due to a slight tremor of my finger.) clare ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community the only down side I see to this is fixing all the OE apps that use scrollbars... that said, I really like this idea from a UI standpoint... it's easier to make circular motions with your fingers than straight lines, scrollbars work good with a mouse since it's easier to move in straight lines with one. we need a way to select which on-screen item to scroll if there's more than one (for simplicity's sake this should be a rare occurance... but web sites love scrollable elements). but it should be really easy to switch from hand to hand... just have a right and left mirrored scroll widget, and skin that bottom bar so it can exist either on the left or right hand side of the screen... there should be a way to make the spinner minimize... it does eat a lot of screen resolution... I'd try it but before I got Qemu working, X kind of ate it on my box, and I've been confined to the windows laptop I get from work... they won't even let me set it up to dual-boot -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finally I received another response from OpenMoko Shop
I cancelled my order after getting this email, for a few reasons: 1. I'm not a developer - I'm learning Python, but there isn't even bindings yet, and this release is for developers of the phone, not developers of stuff for the phone. 2. I get the impression that there has been a *lot* of orders and the real developers will have trouble getting theirs promptly. 3. It can't even be used to make phone calls/ carry around (poor battery life) due to incomplete software, so I really would have no use for it. 4. I get the impression that this device is going to be somewhat ignored when the mass market version is released - hence the warnings and the discount. I was just trying to support the project, and I would still like to see the development evolving, but I'm sure I'll be able to do that via list list. Here's to Neo 2! Cheers, Ben ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: freetheiphone.org
My apologies to Mike, if I came off harsh on you, I was only referring to the site creators. It just really bugs me when people use irrelevant things to push their political agenda. If anyone has a good reason how 'freeing' a frequency that a device does not use will affect a device at all, by all means let me know ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
On 7/14/07, Jeff Andros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we need a way to select which on-screen item to scroll if there's more than one (for simplicity's sake this should be a rare occurance... but web sites love scrollable elements). Yes, good point; and there is one method already. Have you ever edited a long passage in a text box on some web site? A Wiki page, or blog entry, or holiday email come to mind. And when editing, did the mouse have a scroll wheel? How did scrolling change depending on the location of the mouse pointer? (man, what a bunch of rhetorical questions, sorry) We can adapt that behavior to the Neo. Finger moving in the text box? Then scroll that. Finger moving in the document? Then scroll that. For later devices it will be important to have scroll bars as they may not have touch screens. But use the hardware while we've got it! Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AW: 3G SIMs?
Hi. 3 in Austria works with the GSM infrastructure of another provider (A1), if no UMTS-network is available. So it should be one of most cases?? (I have the option to change my carrier in dec., and I will do so, if my 3 USIM is not compatible with the neo 1973 !) werner Well, in most cases yes, as all 3G SIMs (USIM) I've seen have been valid GSM SIMs. i'd expect that to be some requirement even :) OTOH there are carriers that are UMTS only (they don't have a GSM network), e.g. 3 in Austria. Andreas -- Ursprüngl. Mitteil. -- Betreff: 3G SIMs? Von: Marco Barreno [EMAIL PROTECTED] Datum:14.07.2007 21:30 I have a question about SIM cards. If I have a 3G phone with its 3G SIM, will I be able to put that SIM in the Neo? My carrier is ATT in the US. I think the answer is yes, because ATT is having their old Cingular customers upgrade to new 3G SIMs to put in their phones even if they're 2G GSM phones (the 3G SIMs are supposed to be better at choosing between Cingular and ATT towers). Can anyone confirm that it'll work with the Neo? Thanks, Marco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
well, that didn't take long
A Neo is being offered on ebay. With a buy-it-now price of $416.00. Item No. 170129612124 Let's hope the top bid is, oh, $150. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
