Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
On 7/21/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 20 Jul 2007, at 22:25, Ortwin Regel wrote: Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling generous. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Ortwin Regel No, you want the phone. :P At the moment it's not a fully working device, it will do very little. It will be frustrating to have a phone which does nothing. If you haven't ever had to flash a phone or use recovery methods to repair a bricked phone then you'll end up with a paperweight. I've not done much embedded development for a while, my background is in C development. I started on the Amiga and wrote some MIDI software such as MIDI drivers, audio output plugins. I did embedded development for a year, developing firmware for network hardware. Trust me, even I am a little nervous about having a Neo and not being able to contribute. So if you're not a developer you'll feel even more frustrated and impatient. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community This isn't early adopter - this is *pre* adopter - I'd suggest that the 02 model is going to be early adopter, realistically... I ordered one because I think I'm ready to do something useful with it, because * I've already done some of the relevant code in python on my Nokia 6630 with an external GPS * I've done from-scratch build and installs for the Gumstix * embedded gcc/g++ used to be my full-time job (anyone remember Cygnus? :-) * I've written code on an iCreate too * I've used an oscilliscope within the last 6 months... Remember that the one recent live demo we've seen (on youtube, that user's group meeting) involved several iterations of killing and restarting daemons from a remote session on a laptop, and answering a call with AT commands; while we *hope* it's a little more solid than that, I'm expecting that to be part of the debugging to be done in the first batch. Remember also that this one doesn't have 802.11, so until you build yourself a power+usbwifi lashup, it won't really count as a PDA either (why yes, after about 2005 if it doesn't have net it's not really a PDA :-) (I'm also expecting to pick up a cheap pay-as-you go SIM for operating the FIC with, since I actually still need to call and SMS people :-) There's also some gadget-lust going on - I'd probably buy this phone *without* a software install, if it had sufficiently documented hardware, just because (esp. as an Amateur Radio operator) it's the level of control I believe I *should* have of a piece of hardware that I'm paying for. It's pretty clear from this list that there are a lot of wildly varying fantasies built up around the phone, but I don't think anything we've heard officially that suggests that anyone for whom a command line is scary is going to get any value out of it... _Mark_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Herd Of Kittens ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm getting into. I am not absolutely certain that I can handle it but I'm willing to try. On 7/21/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ortwin, with such strong feelings, I need this phone and I need it now, you must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use. Certainly we all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before the OpenMoko even existed? Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated with something in particular. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Certainly I'll help. I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about the phone. My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can be found at: http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104fromSeriesID=104 I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying software architecture. In my mind, I divide the audience into those who are
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date. What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers? Maybe we should try to get a response on how far off an official forum is. I could do some basic moderating I guess. Ortwin On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad. i think is good: - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers) - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler - it can have email notification for reply - could be a central point for developers too! - other motivations said by other people.. So i'm going to create a forum. Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate, and some graphics suggestions. Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former. If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait some days before start. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Sudharshan S schrieb: Hi all, I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with the flames though. A dude dressed in t-shirt and jeans (deja-vu?), walks through a crowded lane. Everyone except him are dressed in prison clothes and march in the opposite direction with their closed phones, some of the guys look at this free man and stare. To add to the effect we play an ambient techno music and everything is white in colour. The man walks in front of the camera, at that moment, gets a call, smiles and says Hello World..., We then fade into the Free your phone and OpenMoko thingy as seen in the rocking youtube videos. If only I had a camera? =(. Of course we could use the neos that are about to be shipped for the ad. I am not sure if any ad similar to this has been done before, Comments and flames? Regards Sudharshan S ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Another thought about advertising: what should the phone stand for ? Discussion in the various threads is very much centering around being open and free. BUT: is it that open for the end-user? There is an open development platform, which is beneficial. But what is the open point as perceived by the customer. You can buy phones today and use them without a contract (prepaid). There are PDA (XDA) phones. So what will be the point (the USP - unique selling point) ? Having or creating an USP is absolutely crucial in advertising. And the place of being different by having white earphone leads is taken by iPod :-D . Who will you be when owning / showing off / using a Neo1973. Or another Openmoko phone. Things even get more complicated when thinking about the mixup between Neo1973 and Openmoko. WiIl we advertise a concept (Openmoko) or a product (Neo). It crucial again to be clear about that. There are a lot of issues and posibilities. Please comment, amend and discuss! KR Martin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Giles Jones wrote: On 21 Jul 2007, at 16:06, Stefano Sanna wrote: Originally it was 77USD. I'm in Italy. Lucky man! ;-) My order # is 18xx and I'm still waiting for being charged.. :-( I would imagine they are going through the YES_I_DO emails in the order they were received back. Maybe you're right. Anyway, this morning I received the Payment received email from openmoko, now I've just to wait for the Neo to knock at my door ;-) Cheers, Stefano. -- Stefano Sanna - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Personal web site: http://www.gerdavax.it AIM: gerdavax - Skype: gerdavax - Callsign: IS0DZE ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date.What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers? Maybe we should try to get a response on how far off an official forum is. This is very important point. Now we have, say, 99% developers and 1% users; if we start a new forum now and then OpenMoko.org people creates the OFFICIAL one, it's all useless work. We must point to the creation of the official openmoko forum; for this reason using a pre-existent forum is not a good idea IMHO: forum will have to be relative to openmoko stuff only and layout/colors should be inline with openmoko.org site. So, we need a reply from OpenMoko.org people to those questions: - Can we start now the official OpenMoko.org forum? For example can we use forums.openmoko.org and the logo? - If we start a new forum and it works and have success (visits from users and/or developer), it will become THE OpenMoko.org forum, or it isn't acceptable from now? Who can reply for them? I don't want split community, i want bring a better tool for communication to those. Send messages from Forum to ML is a simple thing, problem is reverse. Rss feed is a common funcionality in forums, now i'm looking for it in phpbb. People say your opinion! That's mine. I could do some basic moderating I guess.Ortwin Thanks for all people that give their availability. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Andy Powell ha scritto: On Saturday 21 July 2007 08:18, Sudharshan S wrote: Hi all, I have an idea for an advertisement featuring Openmoko. Be gentle with the flames though. I particularly liked the 'Hello World' part ... :D I had something in mind that was rather simplistic but could easily form a series of ads : Scene is set in a garage. Closeup of a mechanic trying to put the wheel nuts on, keeps dropping them, can't get them threaded etc camera zooms out to reveal that the wheel is triangular.. voiceover says: Imagine having no choice. You wouldn't buy a car that took away your choice... ... would you? crossfade to openmoko logo + free your phone Nice, but i think it should be more direct.. This spot hit who alrealdy knows about FLOSS or DRM/closed formats threats only. Maybe we need to focus on *which is our customer type*. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Giles Jones ha scritto: The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual. This is false imho. I know that people don't read manuals often but that's because troubleshooting sections are always stuck at the back. Have a special separate troubleshooting manual and they may read it. Remember you're talking about a free customizable smartphone where you can install lot of applications developed around the world. Not a static pre-installed software super-branded phone. As customization capacity/functionality increase, people questions increase too imho. Valerio ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Just got the credit card charge email. Order #2112 Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $61.57 USD Total: $361.57 USD Shipping to Australia (I asked for express). Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: ...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $67.89 USD Total: $367.89 USD Please note that this amount might be less than what was originally mentioned in the webshop, since we meanwhile got better shipping rates! This means that we will now send out your order ASAP. You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out. Way to go OpenMoko! cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I agree with Valerio's (humble) opinion. Having a static manual would have problems due to the dynamic situation of the software. (The reason wiki's were born!) We need to have an official forum, as questions will be asked and it will strengthen the community. forums.openmoko.org I believe is the way to go. When people start asking questions over and over again, a) ask them to search the forums somewhat better next time, and b) make it a wiki article. This is a pretty important issue... opinions? Kyle Bassett On 7/22/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giles Jones ha scritto: The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual. This is false imho. I know that people don't read manuals often but that's because troubleshooting sections are always stuck at the back. Have a special separate troubleshooting manual and they may read it. Remember you're talking about a free customizable smartphone where you can install lot of applications developed around the world. Not a static pre-installed software super-branded phone. As customization capacity/functionality increase, people questions increase too imho. Valerio ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Skeleton Application for developers?
There are some pretty good example applications in subversion. You could try looking at those: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/ -Brad Brandon Kruse wrote: In the devs opinion, what is the best openmoko application to look at to start building your own app? Should there be a skeleton application that is highly commented and explains the lower level api and gtk bindings, etc? -bk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Daniel Robinson ha scritto: The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110. FIC will make money, but won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them. They are leveraging their expertise, manufacturing, and if they manufacture something that doesn't sell, that is wasted manufacturing resources. Sorry for ignorance but what are COGS ? building costs at FIC? i hope part of the 300$ are given to boost openmoko team.. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hooks in Base Code
Hi, Here is my two cents worth. I also hope what i am saying here is not too basic and is comprehensible. I program in Forth so my knowledge of C vocabulary is not fabulous. On Sat, 2007-07-21 at 12:28 -0400, Clayton Jones wrote: I like the ideas presented here, but i have some experience designing building real time embedded systems so some points to think about: I too have a long history designing, building and writing code for real time embedded systems and all my current designs implement a similar strategy of having Event Generators (usually interupts), an Event Dispatcher and Event Handlers. IMHO the Event Router should be as simple and fast as possible. Any complex sorting/ checking of event lists etc etc should be left to code sitting on the sidelines 1) The Event Router should also have some sort of priority mechanism ... How about a linked list of Event Objects which would contain the Link to next Event, Event Priority, Event Parameters and Link to a specific Event Handler. The Event Router would pass execution to the specific Event Handler for the Event Object at the top of the list. When the specific Event Handler had finished it would pass control back to the Event Router which would delete the finished Event Object and move on to the next in the list. The Event Handler could simply be a list of calls to various code. This list could be easily edited to change the functionality of the device. Would have to have a mechanism for handling errors. Rather than having fixed Event Parameters i would go for a Parameter Heap which would be part of the Event Object. It doesn't need any fixed format as both the code that generated the event and the Event Handler know what the parameters are. To generate a new event one creates a new Event Object with say one of three functions CreateEventAtTopOfList - Would be used if immediate execution is needed CreateEventAtBottomOfList - Execute when you have time CreateEventInMiddleOfList - Insert in execution list, location dependent on Event Priority 2) We have to be careful about race conditions in event notification latency and order. This sequential execution of the Event Objects should reduce the chance of race conditions but will mean that the Event Handlers will need to execute expeditiously so as not to hold up the Event handling system. Other code could sit on the sidelines keeping track of the event list to make sure nothing is going wrong. 3) Finally, we have to keep in mind that this is a small-form factor, battery-powered system - we'll always be behind on the power/resource curve from our desktops, so we have to be aware of speed and resources. I couldn't agree more. I have seen a number of engineering projects fail due to overcomplexity and inattention to low level design resulting in unacceptably slow response and too much power consumption. If anyone thinks this is a good idea i will flesh it out more in the wiki. Regards Simon Matthews ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
The Neo1973 phone and OpenMoko software are two different solutions. The Neo is a solution for a closed-hardware phone. As of right now (Phase 1), it is a developer's phone. Developers do not have to run OpenMoko on it, they could run whatever piece of software they see fit as long as they write it. I think the Neo is a gateway, the premiere, for an open-hardware alternative. OpenMoko is the solution for a closed-software phone. If someone can get OpenMoko to run on the device they have, those individuals are free to develop any software they see fit that will run in the OpenMoko environment. So, who is our (current) audience? The Neo has a high appeal from the hardware hackers, the debuggers, the core software programmers, and also those who want to jump head first into the world of a completely open system. OpenMoko has appeal from virtually any individual that is aggravated by the software running on their mobile devices or has a niche need which currently is not filled, and wants to help fix it. I think a good example is the Asterisk PBX and Digium relationship. Digium develops the PBX specific hardware and (linux) drivers, while the Asterisk community develops the software. Digium wins by selling their hardware, and the Asterisk community wins by gaining a foothold in the corporate market. Might be a good idea to keep their relationship in mind... Both the Neo and OpenMoko provide open access to the hardware and software of a mobile phone. This open platform gives consumers and developers rightful access to what they own. I see the Neo as the hacker's iPhone. Did I dare say it? As the customer or end-user, this open development platform might seem similar to Firefox in a way (no bias intended). As a community of users developing a product everyone can use, from tech-geek to grandma. The Firefox community also has an extensive library of open source extensions, and if that type of community could be developed for OpenMoko programs, good things will happen. :) Palm has even come to a realization that Linux might have some benefits, as they are developing (or having developed) a version supporting Palm devices. Random thoughts: --I believe a pre-paid or open plan is different than having an open phone. A pre-paid plan means that a user may not have to pay a monthly fee, but the user still has the locked restrictions in place from their carrier. --There are still many people who also think that their phone is a permanent part of their carrier contract. --Which mobile phone carrier is the lesser of the evils? (I currently have Verizon, but they don't support GSM.) As for advertising, the Alltel commercials are appealing, making the other carriers look hostile just like the Apple commercials make PC look complicated. A humorous spin might be an idea. You're joking...you have to BUY a ringtone?! You make me laugh... what's all this SEEM editing about anyways? Unique selling point? I don't think there's just one, but if I had to choose, it would be the guitar pick for the Neo and penguin-in-you-pocket for OpenMoko. Now only if we could throw together a NPO for mobile internet/telecom... IMHO... Kyle Bassett Martin may have forced me to write one of my longest responses yet! ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Kyle Bassett schrieb: The Neo1973 phone and OpenMoko software are two different solutions. The Neo is a solution for a closed-hardware phone. As of right now (Phase 1), it is a developer's phone. Developers do not have to run OpenMoko on it, they could run whatever piece of software they see fit as long as they write it. I think the Neo is a gateway, the premiere, for an open-hardware alternative. OpenMoko is the solution for a closed-software phone. If someone can get OpenMoko to run on the device they have, those individuals are free to develop any software they see fit that will run in the OpenMoko environment. So, who is our (current) audience? The Neo has a high appeal from the hardware hackers, the debuggers, the core software programmers, and also those who want to jump head first into the world of a completely open system. OpenMoko has appeal from virtually any individual that is aggravated by the software running on their mobile devices or has a niche need which currently is not filled, and wants to help fix it. I think a good example is the Asterisk PBX and Digium relationship. Digium develops the PBX specific hardware and (linux) drivers, while the Asterisk community develops the software. Digium wins by selling their hardware, and the Asterisk community wins by gaining a foothold in the corporate market. Might be a good idea to keep their relationship in mind... Both the Neo and OpenMoko provide open access to the hardware and software of a mobile phone. This open platform gives consumers and developers rightful access to what they own. I see the Neo as the hacker's iPhone. Did I dare say it? As the customer or end-user, this open development platform might seem similar to Firefox in a way (no bias intended). As a community of users developing a product everyone can use, from tech-geek to grandma. The Firefox community also has an extensive library of open source extensions, and if that type of community could be developed for OpenMoko programs, good things will happen. :) Palm has even come to a realization that Linux might have some benefits, as they are developing (or having developed) a version supporting Palm devices. Random thoughts: --I believe a pre-paid or open plan is different than having an open phone. A pre-paid plan means that a user may not have to pay a monthly fee, but the user still has the locked restrictions in place from their carrier. --There are still many people who also think that their phone is a permanent part of their carrier contract. --Which mobile phone carrier is the lesser of the evils? (I currently have Verizon, but they don't support GSM.) As for advertising, the Alltel commercials are appealing, making the other carriers look hostile just like the Apple commercials make PC look complicated. A humorous spin might be an idea. You're joking...you have to BUY a ringtone?! You make me laugh... what's all this SEEM editing about anyways? Unique selling point? I don't think there's just one, but if I had to choose, it would be the guitar pick for the Neo and penguin-in-you-pocket for OpenMoko. Now only if we could throw together a NPO for mobile internet/telecom... IMHO... Kyle Bassett Martin may have forced me to write one of my longest responses yet! ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Wow! ... Neo as the hacker's iPhone . Well, it pretty much seems to be that right now. Or is it more the protester's phone ? Is it a contra-provider, contra-incumbent, contra-Apple, contra Windows Mobile ? BTW, in Europe, Austria, you can buy phones that are not locked and not branded at all (of course they are expensive then because with a contract a phone costs 0-10 Euro here) and go to the supermarket and buy a prepaid card. That's not the point. I think this open discussion it is very much irrational in the core, it is about an illusion of re-gaining control. That could be an important (U)SP. Give the Linux-Asterisk-Openoffice-Firefox-Thunderbird - a.s.o. community a phone with the same philosophy so they can act consistently in their attitude towards Telco/IT. [off-topic] Let's stop before it becomes contra-war, contra-global-warming, contra-parents, contra-male-dominance, contra-industry, contra-hedgefonds, The point is: people (me too, of course) are facing mechanisms in economy, society, politics, partnerships that render them helpless and dismayed. Can a phone help ? Could Linux help ? Hey, Kyle, you provoked my 1968 reflexes (I was 15 then) 8-) !! [/off topic] KR Martin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/22/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry for ignorance but what are COGS ? building costs at FIC? An accounting term. Wikipedia is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_goods_sold I had to look it up too... -- Regards, Torfinn ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 22 Jul 2007, at 09:47, Kyle Bassett wrote: I agree with Valerio's (humble) opinion. Having a static manual would have problems due to the dynamic situation of the software. (The reason wiki's were born!) We need to have an official forum, as questions will be asked and it will strengthen the community. forums.openmoko.org I believe is the way to go. When people start asking questions over and over again, a) ask them to search the forums somewhat better next time, and b) make it a wiki article. This is a pretty important issue... opinions? It wouldn't be a manual for every possibility. Just document all the potential conditions where the phone becomes unusable and how you get out of those situations. I've known quite a few people own smartphones and never install an application. These are the sort of people who use IE and Outlook Express as they wouldn't know of another browser or email application. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Looks like Sean is onto something.
Just had a look at some Google search results and the results were a little surprising. openmoko 2,350.000 maemo 2,190,000 qtopia1,110,000 openzaurus 256,000 So, for whatever reason, Openmoko has managed to take the lead from the other open source(?) platforms. Michael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
COGS = cost of goods shipped Sorry to be off topic. Yes, we need a forum, On 7/22/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Robinson ha scritto: The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110. FIC will make money, but won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them. They are leveraging their expertise, manufacturing, and if they manufacture something that doesn't sell, that is wasted manufacturing resources. Sorry for ignorance but what are COGS ? building costs at FIC? i hope part of the 300$ are given to boost openmoko team.. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
qemu trouble...
Not sure if this is dev or community... I manage to build the neo qemu and it works :-) Have made (flash.sh, downloaded the files manualt as download.sh did not work (no lynx)) a open moko image and it boots but... No on-screen keyboard makes it pretty useless. Anyone having the same problem or even a solution? Network don't work (qemu -net user)... Is this a limitation in the moko image, the neo qemu or my hostsystem (ubuntu 7.04)? Is it somehow solvable? Anyone successfully got network on there qemu moko systems, an in that case how? TIA /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Hey Lars, Huzzah to you, sir, for getting that far. I got my ubuntu system up yesterday, but I haven't gotten some of the other pieces working. I haven't used OpenEmbedded or bitbake before. I use perforce at work. My ubuntu system is a new dual core box. Does the development environment use distcc? Cheers, Dan On 7/22/07, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure if this is dev or community... I manage to build the neo qemu and it works :-) Have made (flash.sh, downloaded the files manualt as download.sh did not work (no lynx)) a open moko image and it boots but... No on-screen keyboard makes it pretty useless. Anyone having the same problem or even a solution? Network don't work (qemu -net user)... Is this a limitation in the moko image, the neo qemu or my hostsystem (ubuntu 7.04)? Is it somehow solvable? Anyone successfully got network on there qemu moko systems, an in that case how? TIA /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Daniel Robinson skrev: Hey Lars, Huzzah to you, sir, for getting that far. I got my ubuntu system up yesterday, but I haven't gotten some of the other pieces working. I haven't used OpenEmbedded or bitbake before. I use perforce at work. I have not set up a complete build env (don't have room)... Just build the qemu according to Manual setup on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU And downloaded prebuilt kernel, rootfs and u-boot... all in the above instructions. The 'extra' preparation I did was: install gcc 3.4 and run: # apt-get build-dep qemu That probably will install gcc 3.4 to :-) Then add --gcc=gcc-3.4 to the .configure arguments. To 'flash' the image You need to install lynx (for download) and netpbm (for flashing). HTH /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
building openmoko devel image
To any willing to help: I'm a gentoo user who is considering buying one of the FIC1973 phones for developing new software for. I figured I should be able to 'make' the phone before buying it. Note that if this is being sent to the wrong list, please direct me in the right direction. I have been following the instructions on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Installation Every time I try building, I first get a list of errors like: NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (4323/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: / (4324/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: - (4325/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4326/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4327/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] Originally, I kept getting missing stuff for my java messages, but after getting the JDK patched and working, I finally settled on this error that I just can't seem to fix: | NOTE: make | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' | Making all in autoconf-lib-link | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' | Making all in m4 | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' | make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' | Making all in tests | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' | make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' | make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'. | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' | Making all in gettext-runtime | make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make all-recursive | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | Making all in doc | make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' | make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. | make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' | Making all in intl | make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' | make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. | make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' | Making all in intl-java | make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class | Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf | make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 | make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' | FATAL: oe_runmake failed NOTE: Task failed: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.25316 NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1-r4: task do_compile: failed ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1: failed ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Is there any way to actually view what the Makefile is doing when it just sits there and then this thing pops up, like verbose output or something? Charles Lohr ___ OpenMoko community mailing list
OpenMoko trademark issues...
OpenMoko.Inc needs to have a clear trademark policy on the name OpenMoko and associated logo, etc. Right now the maemo people are going through some stuff do to recent changes. This is something that Sean and co need to figure out. If it is already figgured out then it should be posted somewhere on the wiki...a quick search for trademark reveals nothing. Just an FYI to those that care. Jae ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
Lars Hallberg wrote: Daniel Robinson skrev: Hey Lars, Huzzah to you, sir, for getting that far. I got my ubuntu system up yesterday, but I haven't gotten some of the other pieces working. I haven't used OpenEmbedded or bitbake before. I use perforce at work. I have not set up a complete build env (don't have room)... Just build the qemu according to Manual setup on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU And downloaded prebuilt kernel, rootfs and u-boot... all in the above instructions. The 'extra' preparation I did was: install gcc 3.4 and run: # apt-get build-dep qemu I've not had the problems I'm seeing discussed on this list but then I used the MokoMakefile approach. One thing to note -- the OpenMoko build system comes with its own version of QEMU, with changes specific to the Neo1973. Running a stock QEMU outside the build environment will probably limit what you can do, in particular it lacks the virtual Neo1973 hardware they added. Re a few of the troubles, - Giles, I didn't have to modify any .h files to make it work, nor did I see any problems with the 8ma power you saw. - Lars, Yes, the onscreen keyboard does work, as in the GUI keyboard you click on with the mouse. I click in the upper-left box (white area, not icon) and the onscreen keyboard comes up in my QEMU image. - out of the box, it does not let you type into it using your desktop keyboard but you can add -usbdevice keyboard to make it work - I can say that the ability to 'ssh' into the QEMU does work here, but it requires a few steps in the QEMU monitor each time you use it re usb_add gadget:1 that cannot be automated. - To network into the QEMU image you must have gadget support in your host kernel. The Neo1973 docs talk about having a /dev/gadget file, for example with a gadgetfs mounted on it. I have to create it by hand each time I boot, as the udev system doesn't keep it around on my Gentoo system. I checked the source and you cannot move it elsewhere - the path is hardcoded. I hopes this helps, -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $54.22 USD (Germany) Total: $354.22 USD My Order# 2309 Thanks FIC, thanks Harald (Cheer up!), thanks openmoko community, thanks mom, thanks dad ... Frank Mark Chandler schrieb: Just got the credit card charge email. Order #2112 Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $61.57 USD Total: $361.57 USD Shipping to Australia (I asked for express). Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: ...and shipping cost are LOWER than previously mentioned on the page: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $67.89 USD Total: $367.89 USD Please note that this amount might be less than what was originally mentioned in the webshop, since we meanwhile got better shipping rates! This means that we will now send out your order ASAP. You will receive another status update once the order has been sent out. Way to go OpenMoko! cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qemu trouble...
On 22 Jul 2007, at 19:16, Jeff Rush wrote: - Giles, I didn't have to modify any .h files to make it work, nor did I see any problems with the 8ma power you saw. Like I said, it probaly depends on your kernel version which is why I'd like to know which is the best version for QEMU? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko phone as bluetooth GPS reciever
Hello, Would it be possible to use the phone as a bluethooth GPS reciever for my laptop, since all the parts are included? I mean, is it any plans on the software level to create that kind of link? Thank you. -- Dmitri ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko phone as bluetooth GPS reciever
su, 2007-07-22 kello 13:40 -0500, Dmitri kirjoitti: Would it be possible to use the phone as a bluethooth GPS reciever for my laptop, since all the parts are included? I mean, is it any plans on the software level to create that kind of link? There's a quick and dirty script for this functionality at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - URL:http://www.iki.fi/mjr/ Transhumanist - WTA member - URL:http://www.transhumanism.org/ Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - URL:http://www.singinst.org/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Dnia sobota, 21 lipca 2007, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller napisał: Well, I would suggest to use the existing Open Embedded forum (previously this was the Zaurus User Group): www.oesf.org and ask to create new subsections there OESF forums are NOT OpenEmbedded forums. It is common mistake. -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Jest to moje zdanie i ja je całkowicie podzielam. [Henri Monnier] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
Open means something to developers but it is meaningless to customers. You have to show customers what that means; flash demo/QEMU of package management system and included applications. If you just say the phone is open and can do X, Y, Z without demonstrating, openmoko will fail to get the general public. I've already said before what the unique selling point should be. AGPS should be the complete focus after a stable build is complete. In the US providers and manufacturers can not compete. Cingular and Tmobile do not have any aGPS deployed; you can add a GPS puk but that is another device and at minimum $99 extra. On the CDMA side VZW, SPCS, Alltel, USCC, all charge about $10/month for this service. There are a few devices that have autonomous GPS but they can not compete with the battery life or FTTF of aGPS or the sheer amount of applications offered the Openmoko. AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. Here is the list I posted before as aGPS examples and thought it could use a repeating: 1. Silent/loud/vibrate depending on location, programmable or based on courtesy settings-- max goes silent near schools, libraries, etc. 2. shopping list/reminder if you drive walk by something, walk into costco/supermarket weekly sales paper appears 3. Lost phone mode - send a text to your phone, get coordinates back, remote change silent to ring mode. 4. Stolen phone mode - broadcast alarm when ever turned on or gives location for police. Remotely retrieve SIM/IEMI/phone book for identification. 5. Auto sync location dependent - arrive at home wifi/bt turn on and attempt to sync, sync when movement is sensed in the morning 6. Neo tracking - family plan able to track users at a distance or locally. Maybe an alert when within wifi range, sms/alert when phone deviates from expected location or arrives. 7. Neo ping - wifi/bt in conjunction with accelerometers able to find location phones when aGPS is unavailable. short distance 8. Vanilla GPS mapping - POI, trip tip, traffic, follow me, statistics of trip (rate of travel, mph...), sight seeing, etc. aGPS updated via SMS/WiFi/GPRS. Maps cached to SD card. 9. Broadcast - friends want to meet somewhere or where you currently are, you can select gps location or current location to broadcast to people you select in contacts menu. Maybe mute, end call, and accept/send gps buttons while in call. 10. Weather tracker - gives estimate of how long before front/severe weather will reach current location. Might give false positives/inaccurate time. Highlight areas that are flooded and map around. 11. Business Phone number ping - gets phone numbers of businesses in current location, may also opt for website instead. 12. Coverage mapper - ability to remember when phone loses GSM coverage, warn next time about dead spot or have ability for all users to submit data to compile more realistic coverage maps 13. Gas prices/Highway driving - calculates best/safest/cheapest rest areas or exits for gas. Able to input car MPG and let neo tell you which exits to get off for gas. Maybe interface with gasbuddy on the fly to get the cheapest gas. Maybe suggest more efficient routes after comparing month of driving data. 14. Language/currency/dialing codes - changes as you drive, of course it can be locked to your language. Might help visitors as they travel, helpful phrases/translation, current currency conversion--how much, normal prices, etc. 15. Crime geocode - warns when entering high crime area, reminds to lock doors, etc. 16. WiFi mapper - remembers past locations or finds new ones and where coverage ended/began 17. Public transport - sync with train/bus/subway schedule, realtime updates or just provide normal times. 18. Panic mode - disables power off switch, dims LCD, and locks keybad, dials 911/sends coordinates/emergency number, must have battery removed to stop and should give time enough for automated dialing of help---might get abused. 19. Sports mode - for runners, bikers, etc. Follow me, journey statistics, pace, laps, etc. 20. Charging patterns - remembers where battery dies, suggests to charge when stopped after calculating when/where your neo usually dies after last stop. 21. Social - IM, games, etc when near other neos. 22. Adhoc wifi/bt VoIP/PTT connection - GSM disabled when reaching certain sites, maybe construction/fleet, phones would only be able to VoIP/PTT between phones--limited use and range without AP/repeater Martin Straub wrote: Another thought about advertising: what should the phone stand for ? Discussion in the various threads is very much centering around being open and free. BUT: is it that open for the end-user? There is an open development platform, which is beneficial. But what is the open point as perceived by the customer. You can buy phones today and use them without a
Re: OpenMoko phone as bluetooth GPS reciever
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GPS Mikko Rauhala, Eric van Horssen thank you for your reply. -- Dmitri ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Gau, Frank wrote: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: ... My Order# 2309 My order number is #1987. My YES_I_DO request was sent by FIC on Friday, July 13 at 6:43pm PDT (Saturday, July 14 1:43am UTC). I received it at approximately 7:03pm (2:03am) that evening, and I sent a response at 7:05pm (2:05am). Did you respond more quickly than I did? I'm just trying to figure out the order in which FIC is sending out phones. Given your much higher order number, they clearly aren't going by that. Other possibilities: the order in which YES_I_DO responses were received (but I responded pretty quickly, so that seems unlikely, unless they sent YES_I_DO requests out of order), or perhaps they're fulfilling orders heading overseas first (I live 44 miles/71km away from FIC America's Fremont location). -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: An idea for an advertisement
On 22 Jul 2007, at 20:31, Adam Krikstone wrote: Open means something to developers but it is meaningless to customers. You have to show customers what that means; flash demo/ QEMU of package management system and included applications. If you just say the phone is open and can do X, Y, Z without demonstrating, openmoko will fail to get the general public. I've already said before what the unique selling point should be. AGPS should be the complete focus after a stable build is complete. In the US providers and manufacturers can not compete. Cingular and Tmobile do not have any aGPS deployed; you can add a GPS puk but that is another device and at minimum $99 extra. On the CDMA side VZW, SPCS, Alltel, USCC, all charge about $10/month for this service. There are a few devices that have autonomous GPS but they can not compete with the battery life or FTTF of aGPS or the sheer amount of applications offered the Openmoko. AGPS is where focus needs to be. This natural (and free) comparative advantage needs to be developed to attract new developers and customers. Unfortunately people will want Tomtom, much of the other stuff is useless to most people. You need GPS turn by turn routing to bring in the masses. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko trademark issues...
Jae Stutzman wrote: OpenMoko.Inc needs to have a clear trademark policy on the name OpenMoko and associated logo, etc. Right now the maemo people are going through some stuff do to recent changes. This is something that Sean and co need to figure out. If it is already figgured out then it should be posted somewhere on the wiki...a quick search for trademark reveals nothing. Just an FYI to those that care. Jae ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Sean and his Team are on top of that FIC has already registered (Oct 4 2006) the wordmark, OpenMoko as a registered trademark in the U.S.A.: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=m30fsv.2.1 They have also registered the OpenMoko logo: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=m30fsv.5.2 Also, check out these Live trademarks by FIC: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=tocstate=m30fsv.1.1p_search=searchssp_L=50BackReference=p_plural=yesp_s_PARA1=livep_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LDexpr=PARA1+AND+PARA2p_s_PARA2=%22FIRST+INTERNATIONAL+COMPUTER%22p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24OWp_op_ALL=ADJa_default=searcha_search=Submit+Querya_search=Submit+Query Cheers...Cassj ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: I got charged ;)
Yesss... Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: Subtotal: $300 USD Shipping: $8.56 USD Total: $308.56 USD To Canada For a base unit More nervous than ever... :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Am 22.07.2007 um 21:19 schrieb Marcin Juszkiewicz: Dnia sobota, 21 lipca 2007, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller napisał: Well, I would suggest to use the existing Open Embedded forum (previously this was the Zaurus User Group): www.oesf.org and ask to create new subsections there OESF forums are NOT OpenEmbedded forums. It is common mistake. Indeed - OESF = Open Embedded Software Foundation which took over the Zaurus User Group. The OpenEmbedded project is different from that. So, since many previous Zaurus users are looking for a new device to play with, why not use the ZUG Forum? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
My order number is #2081. I ordered on July 9, 12:37 AM EST (5:37 AM UTC). I received the YES_I_DO request on July 13, 9:40 PM EST (2:40 AM UTC) . I replied with YES_I_DO at July 13, 9:43 PM EST (2:43 AM UTC) and received charge confirmation on July 21, 11:52 AM EST (4:52 PM UTC). Hope this helps guys... Kyle On 7/22/07, Myk Melez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gau, Frank wrote: Your credit card has now been charged by the following amount: ... My Order# 2309 My order number is #1987. My YES_I_DO request was sent by FIC on Friday, July 13 at 6:43pm PDT (Saturday, July 14 1:43am UTC). I received it at approximately 7:03pm (2:03am) that evening, and I sent a response at 7:05pm (2:05am). Did you respond more quickly than I did? I'm just trying to figure out the order in which FIC is sending out phones. Given your much higher order number, they clearly aren't going by that. Other possibilities: the order in which YES_I_DO responses were received (but I responded pretty quickly, so that seems unlikely, unless they sent YES_I_DO requests out of order), or perhaps they're fulfilling orders heading overseas first (I live 44 miles/71km away from FIC America's Fremont location). -myk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Looks like Sean is onto something.
Google trends data is only as new as February. The big announcement giving openmoko all the media attention only happened recently. So its possible its already over, but the question is for how long. On 7/22/07, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Google trends is another interesting way to compare popularity. According to it, Maemo is currently a more popular search term than openmoko, but not by much. I think when people start getting them in their hands the charts will soar. http://www.google.com/trends?q=openmoko%2C+maemo%2C+qtopia%2C+openzaurus -Hans On 7/22/07, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just had a look at some Google search results and the results were a little surprising. openmoko 2,350.000 maemo 2,190,000 qtopia1,110,000 openzaurus 256,000 So, for whatever reason, Openmoko has managed to take the lead from the other open source(?) platforms. Michael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring etc. I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?! Anyway... As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the messages are sorted by the date and time are posted, but by whom they're answering to. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko trademark issues...
Great...but what is the policy for use among the community? That is the question here. Anyways, it is good to see that they filed with the USPTO. :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Qemu Optimzations.
I wanted to start this thread to give new users (mainly developers) a thread to look at for qemu based optimization. Obviously there is an extra layer of translation involved (unless your running your applications natively, outside the qemu or virtual machine environment) With that said, has anyone had any luck with optimizing your qemu configuration for a speed/performance increase? Of course, with the translation of code, your not going to get peak performance, but im sure there are some flags you can set in qemu, or command line flags to speed up the process. Any Luck? Either that, or post your qemu configurations for support with USB, Networking, etc. Will post mine soon, -bk ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: I got charged ;)
Other possibilities: the order in which YES_I_DO responses were received (but I responded pretty quickly, so that seems unlikely, unless they sent YES_I_DO requests out of order), or perhaps they're fulfilling orders heading overseas first (I live 44 miles/71km away from FIC America's Fremont location). Or they're grabbing phones in the order the boxes got stacked in the warehouse and your orange one is at the bottom of the pile with all the others. Ormaybe they just like torturing people who think that there should be order in the universe. :-) --Jon Radel smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/22/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the messages are sorted by the date and time are posted, but by whom they're answering to. I think you meant to say: As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the messages are [not] sorted by the date and time [they] are posted, but by whom they're answering to. phpBB forums are sorted by all three characteristics: date, time, poster. As I'm sure you know, any single phpBB forum may be divided into sub-forums or categories. Each category has threads in it, with the newest threads at the top (sorting by 'time and date'). A thread is a group of posts, the first post being the thread's seed and the others being replies to that post (sorting by 'whom they're answering to'). When reading a thread, the posts are also displayed with the seed at the top and the replies below, in chronological order (a second sorting by 'time and date'). While not a phpBB forum, LinuxQuestions.org is a great example of how all three characteristics are used to group and display the discussions. phpBB isn't that different from LQ's default, which lets you tweak a lot of display preferences (maybe you like oldest on bottom? no problem). To add more suggestions to the pile, maybe a new sub-forum in Linux - Distributions area of LQ would helpful. At least for OpenMoko. . . I don't know where/if the Neo and later devices would fit. Also, another way to have a usable 'forum' (both from mail and web) is a Google Group. Google groups offer RSS feeds as well, file and page hosting, and moderation. Do I need to mention that search is also a feature ;-P Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Moin, Am Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:31:55 + (UTC) schrieb Valerio Bruno: I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?! Anyway... Yes, in my (and probably Sebastian's) part of the Internet, phpBB does not count as a threaded forum. Based on http://aktuell.de.selfhtml.org/artikel/gedanken/foren-boards/ (sorry, it's in German, but there are clarifying pictures) I'd make a distinction between a forum, which is inherently threaded (not in the phpBB-sense), and a board, which is flat (like phpBB). A thread in a forum captures the more natural way of discussion: someone says something, multiple people reply, maybe focusing on different aspects of the original post, the discussion might drift away in more than one dimension, sub-aspects get discussed, maybe even the topic changes completely: (A, B, C are people; 1,2,3... are aspects of the subject) A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 1, brings up 5 A responds to 5 C responds to 5 (from A's post) etc... Graph-theoretically speaking: Real[tm] threads are trees. (Well, actually, from a real-world point of view they should be directed acyclic graphs, meaning that one could reply to more than one posting at a time. But that just adds all sorts of headaches and is difficult to visualize. It's like multiple inheritance in the programming language of your choice. But I digress ...) A 'thread' in a board, like phpBB, is inherently flat, one-dimensional, restricting. There's always only exactly one subject being discussed, and it's harder to cherry-pick the aspects that you want to reply to. Especially if you want to reply to an aspect that has been brought up several posts ago: A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, brings up 5 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 5 A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 5 (from A's post) Trains of thought that ought to belong together are separated by this structure, and completely unrelated aspects are forced to stand together. And now imagine being a new person D and wanting to say something about aspect 3. That's why phpBB postings basically must make use of these @poster A forms, and even that doesn't help too much if the posting being replied to was 30 postings (read: 3 pages) ago. There's a reason that the 'classical' discussion systems (usenet and mailing-lists) model real threads. Oh, and yes, some boards offer proper threads as an optional view. But that's hard, because replying in a plain-board style loses information about the intent of the poster. It's easy to transform a forum view into a board view by just throwing the who responded to whom-information away, but it's impossible the other way round. And finally: Should the discussion really be one-dimensional and flat, well that's just a special case of a tree and no problem at all for real forums. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
MokoMakefile under Ubuntu Feisty
Hello, Here a PC with 512 MB of RAM faced extreme slowliness when running MokoMakefile and finally failed with a gcc internal error :/ MokoMakefile requires more than 512 MB of RAM + Swap space (about 1GB ???). And the swap partition under Feisty was not mounted. Bug #105490 describes this issue and gives a workaround (23 Jul 07): https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/105490 Gilles -- Oralux.org http://association.oralux.org ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko trademark issues...
Jae Stutzman wrote: OpenMoko.Inc needs to have a clear trademark policy on the name OpenMoko and associated logo, etc. Right now the maemo people are going through some stuff do to recent changes. This is something that Sean and co need to figure out. If it is already figgured out then it should be posted somewhere on the wiki...a quick search for trademark reveals nothing. Yes a good thing to bring up, what with us all using their name and mark in volunteer stuff. As Cassj said, they have the legal work done to claim the marks but they do need a policy by which we the community can use them to promote OpenMoko. I'm sure other communities have this issue too. The Python community wants the Python trademark to be used to promote Python, in acceptable ways. The OpenMoko team can probably clip and rework the explanatory material to come up with their own policy. And if others know of good policy write-ups on other community trademarks, let's get them to Sean for his consideration. The Python trademark policy can be read at: http://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/ I think it is a pretty reasonable one. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/22/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In regards to my suggestions, both LQ and Google groups keep discussions flat like a phpBB board. You can of course quote people to explicitly bring context to your reply. Actually, Google Groups //does// support properly threaded reading on the web. Take a look at this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/google-code-hosting/browse_frm/thread/844ef0e6ed264357/# for an example. Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Charles Lohr wrote: To any willing to help: I'm a gentoo user who is considering buying one of the FIC1973 phones for developing new software for. I figured I should be able to 'make' the phone before buying it. Note that if this is being sent to the wrong list, please direct me in the right direction. If we get into too many details, it might be best to move it to openmoko-devel but quick questions are hopefully ok. I run Gentoo here as well, and have it working, so there is hope. ;-) I have been following the instructions on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Installation Every time I try building, I first get a list of errors like: NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (4323/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: / (4324/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: - (4325/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4326/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '1828', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: \ (4327/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] Those are not errors, just status messages, I believe. Originally, I kept getting missing stuff for my java messages, but after getting the JDK patched and working, I finally settled on this error that I just can't seem to fix: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ equery list jre [ Searching for package 'jre' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ -] dev-java/blackdown-jre-1.4.2.03-r14 (1.4.2) [I--] [ -] dev-java/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02 (1.6) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.4.2 (1.4) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.5.0 (1.5) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.6.0 (1.6) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ eselect java-vm show Current system-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Current user-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Just FYI. `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class | Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf | make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 | make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' | FATAL: oe_runmake failed NOTE: Task failed: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.25316 NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1-r4: task do_compile: failed ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting NOTE: package gettext-native-0.14.1: failed ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 Is there any way to actually view what the Makefile is doing when it just sits there and then this thing pops up, like verbose output or something? There are logfiles, listed in your output, that might help. The one relate to the failing compile is: /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.25316 There are *lots* of logfiles created by the build process under the directory build/tmp/work/ directory. -Jeff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Moin, Am Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:06:49 -0400 schrieb Charles Lohr: Every time I try building, I first get a list of errors like: NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (4323/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] No errors, just informational messages. I left them in because I didn't think they would cause any problems. You'll see that many only the first time, when the cache is generated. Afterwards you'll only see those that are actually relevant and may be helpful. Originally, I kept getting missing stuff for my java messages, but after getting the JDK patched and working, I finally settled on this error that I just can't seem to fix: Hmm, I'd say that requiring Java would be a problem in itself, though I never had any troubles with it because I'm using Java on this box anyways. `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' | jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class | Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf Huh? cf in this case is an argument to the jar utility. The only way to end up with this error message that I can think of, would be if you symlinked your java binary under the name jar. What exactly did your patching the JDK include? What stopped you from just emerging sun-jdk-1.5? Is there any way to actually view what the Makefile is doing when it just sits there and then this thing pops up, like verbose output or something? The MokoMakefile is doing nothing at this point. It's essentially just a wrapper around the bitbake tool which handles the actual build process, through things called recipes (which are conceptually equal to gentoo ebuilds), which in turn might call a make of their own. To be nicer, bitbake by default suppresses all output from the build process and only prints an occassional status message. It does however create tremendous amounts of logs and prints the last couple of lines from the logs in case of an error (that's what you saw). You can instruct bitbake to print every message directly in your face, but for that you'll have to call it directly: instead of make openmoko-devel-image issue cd build; . ../setup-env to setup the needed environment variables that bitbake relies on to find its recipes, and then you can call bitbake -D openmoko-devel-image to build the devel images and print out lots of debug information. But again, this shouldn't be necessary as all relevant information should be found in the log files. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of the strong opinion that we should go with a flat forum for accessibility. Ortwin On 7/23/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:31:55 + (UTC) schrieb Valerio Bruno: I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?! Anyway... Yes, in my (and probably Sebastian's) part of the Internet, phpBB does not count as a threaded forum. Based on http://aktuell.de.selfhtml.org/artikel/gedanken/foren-boards/ (sorry, it's in German, but there are clarifying pictures) I'd make a distinction between a forum, which is inherently threaded (not in the phpBB-sense), and a board, which is flat (like phpBB). A thread in a forum captures the more natural way of discussion: someone says something, multiple people reply, maybe focusing on different aspects of the original post, the discussion might drift away in more than one dimension, sub-aspects get discussed, maybe even the topic changes completely: (A, B, C are people; 1,2,3... are aspects of the subject) A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 1, brings up 5 A responds to 5 C responds to 5 (from A's post) etc... Graph-theoretically speaking: Real[tm] threads are trees. (Well, actually, from a real-world point of view they should be directed acyclic graphs, meaning that one could reply to more than one posting at a time. But that just adds all sorts of headaches and is difficult to visualize. It's like multiple inheritance in the programming language of your choice. But I digress ...) A 'thread' in a board, like phpBB, is inherently flat, one-dimensional, restricting. There's always only exactly one subject being discussed, and it's harder to cherry-pick the aspects that you want to reply to. Especially if you want to reply to an aspect that has been brought up several posts ago: A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, brings up 5 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 5 A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 5 (from A's post) Trains of thought that ought to belong together are separated by this structure, and completely unrelated aspects are forced to stand together. And now imagine being a new person D and wanting to say something about aspect 3. That's why phpBB postings basically must make use of these @poster A forms, and even that doesn't help too much if the posting being replied to was 30 postings (read: 3 pages) ago. There's a reason that the 'classical' discussion systems (usenet and mailing-lists) model real threads. Oh, and yes, some boards offer proper threads as an optional view. But that's hard, because replying in a plain-board style loses information about the intent of the poster. It's easy to transform a forum view into a board view by just throwing the who responded to whom-information away, but it's impossible the other way round. And finally: Should the discussion really be one-dimensional and flat, well that's just a special case of a tree and no problem at all for real forums. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: building openmoko devel image
Since I don't really know the community, just say when and I can join the devel lists and move to that. (Or we can just do the discussion off-list) I actually have a very similar java setup (it looks like I'm just missing the jre 1.4): [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ equery list jre [ Searching for package 'jre' in all categories among: ] * installed packages [I--] [ -] dev-java/blackdown-jre-1.4.2.03-r14 (1.4.2) [I--] [ -] dev-java/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02 (1.6) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.5.0 (1.5) [I--] [ ] virtual/jre-1.6.0 (1.6) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ eselect java-vm show Current system-vm sun-jdk-1.5 Current user-vm sun-jdk-1.5 And -- with regards to the log file; the log file seems to only contain what the standard output provides. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ cat /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/temp/log.do_compile.3610 NOTE: make make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' Making all in autoconf-lib-link make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' Making all in m4 make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/m4' Making all in tests make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link/tests' make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'. make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/autoconf-lib-link' Making all in gettext-runtime make[2]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make all-recursive make[3]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' Making all in doc make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/doc' Making all in intl make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' make[4]: Nothing to be done for `all'. make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl' Making all in intl-java make[4]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' jar cf libintl.jar gnu/gettext/GettextResource*.class Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: cf make[4]: *** [libintl.jar] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/intl-java' make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make[2]: *** [all] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1' FATAL: oe_runmake failed I am curious what your GettextResource.java is. Since it's possible that the problem is in the GettextResource.java file or my java selection. Charles Charles Lohr wrote: To any willing to help: I'm a gentoo user who is considering buying one of the FIC1973 phones for developing new software for. I figured I should be able to 'make' the phone before buying it. Note that if this is being sent to the wrong list, please direct me in the right direction. If we get into too many details, it might be best to move it to openmoko-devel but quick questions are hopefully ok. I run Gentoo here as well, and have it working, so there is hope. ;-) I have been following the instructions on: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Installation Every time I try building, I first get a list of errors like: NOTE: Handling BitBake files: | (4323/4354) [99 %]NOTE: Retrieved remote revisions: ['0', '0', '2360', '0'] NOTE: Handling BitBake files: /
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. Mickael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
On 7/22/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. And have the threaded view for those that want it. You can view flat as well threaded: http://groups.google.com/group/google-code-hosting/browse_frm/thread/844ef0e6ed264357/# flat: http://groups.google.com/group/google-code-hosting/browse_thread/thread/844ef0e6ed264357?tvc=2 Same discussion :-) Joe ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Joe Friedrichsen writes: On 7/22/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. And have the threaded view for those that want it. You can view flat as well And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a proper news reader. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
