Re: Example of accelerometers utility
On Monday 03 December 2007, Stroller wrote: On 2 Dec 2007, at 15:42, Steven Le Roux wrote: Here is a video which shows some applications for accelerometers in a current phone use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWc-j4Xs5_w I _love_ the ball-bearing inbox and the way that a message from your g/f might have a different timbre from one from your bank. That feels VERY innovative to me, and more than compensates for the stupid name (Shroogle? WTF?) and the dull video. In a fair chunk of Scotland, including Glasgow where the code was written, shoogle means shake. Giving the phone a shoogle to find out if you had any messages would make perfect sense. I say this as an englishman who occasionally travels north of the border, so the details may be wrong :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Peter Rasmussen wrote: I didn't get very far with a SIM card in my GTA01, because the PIN I enter isn't accepted, even though it is correct. This sounds like http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 Could you please try to a) submit the PIN once OK, I did. It takes a few seconds before it accepts the first digit, but after that it is with a more 'normal' delay. b) press cancel for all subsequently appearing PIN dialogs OK, after twice hitting Cancel, the dialog stopped appearing. c) use the gsm panel applet to power on the antenna and then autoregister. This didn't seem to be necessary, as a popup appeared (before the first PIN dialog re-appeared) that told me it had connected to my mobile service provider's network. I checked out bug #1028, and yes, even with the limited info there, it seems to be the same. A couple of seconds later you should see a popup with your mobile service provider appearing. I could then make phone calls, but it seemed that when the other end drops the connection, my Neo doesn't detect it and stays up until I explicitly drop the call myself. Is this a known problem? Peter ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
I didn't get very far with a SIM card in my GTA01, because the PIN I enter isn't accepted, even though it is correct. Is that a telephony related bug? However, It is great to see support for SDHC, as I could now access such a flash card. Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://downloads.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.11/ While there are lot of bugs fixed, there are more. Please use the bugzilla to report these. When you report telephony related bugs, it's helpful for us if you include /tmp/gsm.log for reference. Thanks. Regards, :M: ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
You can get receivers for Polar chest straps that signal beats with gpio-accessible pulses. If the Neo1973 isn't completely packed inside, it should be an easy add-on. I dont understand what you are saying here. Are you saying there is a wireless reciever on the market which can be purchased which is compatible with polar? If so, what is it? What is the signaling standard. Is gpio a wireless signaling standard? If so, I was not able to find it. It seems like a wired standard, and if it is a wired standard I am not clear how you can connect it to a polar strap since the strap broadcasts wireless signals. Thanks Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
On Dec 4, 2007 7:11 AM, Neil Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Hank, I think what he's saying is that you can get after market receivers for polar chest straps eg http://www.concept2.com/us/products/heart/default.asp, which I have used myself in projects.. ok, but what is the protocol. Is it ant? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
Hi Hank, I think what he's saying is that you can get after market receivers for polar chest straps eg http://www.concept2.com/us/products/heart/default.asp, which I have used myself in projects.. These can be easily interfaced to a micro (or the Neo in this case).. measure the time between pulses to determine the heart rate.. These receivers work with coded or uncoded Polar straps. The coded straps give extra pulses after the main pules, but that's a whole other matter.. :) Regards Neil Davey hank williams wrote: You can get receivers for Polar chest straps that signal beats with gpio-accessible pulses. If the Neo1973 isn't completely packed inside, it should be an easy add-on. I dont understand what you are saying here. Are you saying there is a wireless reciever on the market which can be purchased which is compatible with polar? If so, what is it? What is the signaling standard. Is gpio a wireless signaling standard? If so, I was not able to find it. It seems like a wired standard, and if it is a wired standard I am not clear how you can connect it to a polar strap since the strap broadcasts wireless signals. Thanks Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- --- Neil Davey Daveytronics.com.au P.O. Box 6089 Logan Central QLD, 4114 Looking for cost effective web hosting? Need a domain name for your business? It's cheaper than you think!! Talk to us and see what we can do for you --- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
On Dec 4, 2007 7:39 AM, Neil Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are referring to the signal from the Polar straps, it is not really a protocol... It is just a magnetic pules transmitted when the heart beat occurs.. so is there a receiver chip one could buy to detect these magnetic pulses? I'm not quite sure how one goes about capturing that. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
If you are referring to the signal from the Polar straps, it is not really a protocol... It is just a magnetic pules transmitted when the heart beat occurs.. I have some docs somewhere but can not find them at the moment.. >From a google search there is a page that talks about the transmitter (polar strap) signal.. The receiver I mentioned outputs a logic hi (1) when a pulse is detected from the polar strap, measure the time between pulses to determine heart rate.. Regards Neil hank williams wrote: On Dec 4, 2007 7:11 AM, Neil Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Hank, I think what he's saying is that you can get after market receivers for polar chest straps eg http://www.concept2.com/us/products/heart/default.asp, which I have used myself in projects.. ok, but what is the protocol. Is it ant? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- --- Neil Davey Daveytronics.com.au P.O. Box 6089 Logan Central QLD, 4114 Looking for cost effective web hosting? Need a domain name for your business? It's cheaper than you think!! Talk to us and see what we can do for you --- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:51 +0100, Peter Rasmussen wrote: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Peter Rasmussen wrote: I didn't get very far with a SIM card in my GTA01, because the PIN I enter isn't accepted, even though it is correct. This sounds like http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1028 Could you please try to a) submit the PIN once OK, I did. It takes a few seconds before it accepts the first digit, but after that it is with a more 'normal' delay. b) press cancel for all subsequently appearing PIN dialogs OK, after twice hitting Cancel, the dialog stopped appearing. c) use the gsm panel applet to power on the antenna and then autoregister. This didn't seem to be necessary, as a popup appeared (before the first PIN dialog re-appeared) that told me it had connected to my mobile service provider's network. Could you let us know a bit more about your SIM card, e.g. service provider, type of service? If you get the chance, please update your openmoko-dialer2 package to the latest SVN revision, as I have just committed an updated solution to bug 1028. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
On Tuesday 04 December 2007, hank williams wrote: On Dec 4, 2007 7:39 AM, Neil Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are referring to the signal from the Polar straps, it is not really a protocol... It is just a magnetic pules transmitted when the heart beat occurs.. so is there a receiver chip one could buy to detect these magnetic pulses? I'm not quite sure how one goes about capturing that. Not sure about the Polar units, but for things using ANT like the suunto cheststraps there are these: http://www.thisisant.com/index.php?section=31 Everything from chips to complete USB sticks. No linux driver for the USB stick yet, but they may be willing to release enough info for one to be developed. USB is probably easiest for connection to the Neo, while the modules should be fine for a wireless cadence sensor. Adding a wheel pulse should be fairly easy if you aren't happy with GPS speed. If you're feeling really adventurous you could strain gauge the crank to give you torque measurement, but that might eat your batteries. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
The Polar HR Monitor equipment does a very simple 5hz pulse that can then be picked up and counted to get HR data.The hardware simply amplifies pluses in the 5hz frequency range, which could then be fed into a General Purpose Input Output (GPIO) line on the Neo 1973 itself. This is great because it's relatively simple to do, and alot of people have Polar HR stuff already. The ANT wireless protocol is used in alot of upcoming bicycling sensor products, Cadence censors, power meters, Heart Rate Monitors, Speed Pickups etc. from a variety of manufactures (Suunto, Garmin, PowerTap, Quarq) It is significantly more complicated since it allows multiple networks of device to interact in different ways without interference. Fortunately most of the complication is abstracted away by the integrated chips that thisisant (parent company garmin) sells. These chips provide just a serial interface, which is publicly well documented that can be used to communicate with these devices. The easiest way to get started is to buy a suunto pc pod, which is a has a USB - Serial interface that is then fed into the aformentioned chip that communicates to any ANT sensors. I don't know if/how the hardware could be attached to the openmoko platform since I'm not really a Hardware guy, though I suspect you might be able to pigy back on the i2c bus, does anyone know? -Will P.S. Chip Doc:http://thisisant.com/index.php?section=31 Protocl Doc: http://thisisant.com/index.php?section=78 Proof of concept:http://code.google.com/p/suuntopcpod/ On Dec 4, 2007 6:50 AM, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 4, 2007 7:39 AM, Neil Davey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are referring to the signal from the Polar straps, it is not really a protocol... It is just a magnetic pules transmitted when the heart beat occurs.. so is there a receiver chip one could buy to detect these magnetic pulses? I'm not quite sure how one goes about capturing that. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
Not sure about the Polar units, but for things using ANT like the suunto cheststraps there are these: http://www.thisisant.com/index.php?section=31 Thanks, Yes I am familiar with ant, but was curious if polar was the same thing or some different broadcast system. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Application idea: Bicycle computer
Does anyone have any experience with the Hardware side of things? Possibility of integrating ANT directly into the Neo 1973? -Will On Dec 4, 2007 10:47 AM, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure about the Polar units, but for things using ANT like the suunto cheststraps there are these: http://www.thisisant.com/index.php?section=31 Thanks, Yes I am familiar with ant, but was curious if polar was the same thing or some different broadcast system. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Toolchain alpha release
Hi, Please check http://downloads.openmoko.org/toolchains/openmoko-x86_64-arm-linux-gnueabi-toolchain.tar.bz2 It's the alpha release of a lean toolchain built on debian lenny, x86_64. The source of openmoko-sample2 is included so you could compile and install it on your neo. The tarball must be extracted to '/' , and please read /usr/local/openmoko/arm/README . As the name suggests, it's really in alpha stage, so please give your feedback/ flame. Thanks! The wiki page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain is not updated yet since we got (temporary ?) connection problems here in Taipei. Regards, John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Peter Rasmussen wrote: I checked out bug #1028, and yes, even with the limited info there, it seems to be the same. Thanks for confirming! That was the least I could do! A couple of seconds later you should see a popup with your mobile service provider appearing. I could then make phone calls, but it seemed that when the other end drops the connection, my Neo doesn't detect it and stays up until I explicitly drop the call myself. Is this a known problem? Unfortunately yes, sorry. gsmd team and dialer team are working to fix this asap. Actually, now being able to both dial and receive phone calls, this issue moves down the 'issue ladder' for me. It doesn't work in a sexy way, but it works! What I would rather like to see now is working text messaging (SMS) and better battery life, because then I could switch my regular mobile phone to the Neo for every day usage, and that would put many more testing hours into it. Right now, it is only after I come home and have time sitting down with it that I can fiddle and test it, and that makes a huge difference. If emphasis could also be put into providing more characters in the text messaging, eg. European, Japanese and Chinese characters, that would be helpful, too. You know, text messaging in Europe and Asia is sometimes more important than voice. Then, having a USB mode = Mass Storage, so that when powered up, or in the boot loader mode, being able to directly access the SD or SDHC flash card would make access to it easier and less demanding with moving the flash card back and forth between the Neo and a reader, when populating it with a new kernel and rootfs image. How and when do you suppose that is coming along? In general, how do I put such functionality road map priority wishes through? Bugzilla? Or is that only for actual defects? Thanks, Peter ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Development env *on* the neo?
The toolchain is great news, but I rather avoid cross compiling completely and build native on the neo. Building small apps should not be too slow on the neo. And having the build env with You on that 9 hour train trip is *good*. As most development and testing can be performed on the desktop You would only need to check out and build on the neo maybe every second day. Would not hurt even if the build take some time! But You don't want to build more than necessary. I have seen gcc, g++, make and stuff available for ipkg - but are there any dev versions of the libs available? And would it be possible to have stripped libs on the neo and install dev libs (and dev env) on the memory card? /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
The toolchain is great news, but I rather avoid cross compiling completely and build native on the neo. i do a lot of python work onboard the neo these days .. i have to say, its my favourite python machine right now. ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
On Dec 4, 2007 2:56 PM, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But You don't want to build more than necessary. I have seen gcc, g++, make and stuff available for ipkg - but are there any dev versions of the libs available? And would it be possible to have stripped libs on the neo and install dev libs (and dev env) on the memory card? Yes all the ipkg's you need exist, but there isn't enough flash to install them all. What I did is reformat a MicroSD card to ext2, cp -a /usr to the card, then modify /etc/fstab to automatically mount the card on /usr at boot. Then install task-base-dev and whatever else you need. The regular image is not modified much (since nearly all the new files are installed under /usr), so you can still run without that card, but if you have it mounted you have all the tools. (I suppose it could also be done with unionfs, that would save some space.) And if you reflash your phone you just need to recopy /usr to the card (some stuff will be overwritten, but no need to re-install all the dev packages if they have not changed) and make the modification to fstab again. I also have /usr/root as a second home directory so there is some space for source trees. I was able to compile Chicken Scheme that way, right on the phone (it took hours), and am working (slowly) on my Display Scheme GUI. Chicken has a Scheme-to-C compiler, so you need gcc to get compiled binaries, and doing that with a cross compiler is even more trouble than cross-compiling usually is; which is why I wanted to do it on the phone. But somebody else managed to cross-compile Chicken plus some extensions... someday if nobody else gets around to it, I will try to generate the bitbake recipes for that. I managed to compile nvi (because the busybox vi kinda sucks and vim is kinda big). I guess in theory you could try emacs if you're into that. :-) I tried to get an svn client on the phone but did not succeed. That would be really useful... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
Priorities for mass usage: 1. phone working 2. acceptable battery life (1 full day without charge) Am I wrong? Jon On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 22:29 +0100, Peter Rasmussen wrote: Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Peter Rasmussen wrote: I checked out bug #1028, and yes, even with the limited info there, it seems to be the same. Thanks for confirming! That was the least I could do! A couple of seconds later you should see a popup with your mobile service provider appearing. I could then make phone calls, but it seemed that when the other end drops the connection, my Neo doesn't detect it and stays up until I explicitly drop the call myself. Is this a known problem? Unfortunately yes, sorry. gsmd team and dialer team are working to fix this asap. Actually, now being able to both dial and receive phone calls, this issue moves down the 'issue ladder' for me. It doesn't work in a sexy way, but it works! What I would rather like to see now is working text messaging (SMS) and better battery life, because then I could switch my regular mobile phone to the Neo for every day usage, and that would put many more testing hours into it. Right now, it is only after I come home and have time sitting down with it that I can fiddle and test it, and that makes a huge difference. If emphasis could also be put into providing more characters in the text messaging, eg. European, Japanese and Chinese characters, that would be helpful, too. You know, text messaging in Europe and Asia is sometimes more important than voice. Then, having a USB mode = Mass Storage, so that when powered up, or in the boot loader mode, being able to directly access the SD or SDHC flash card would make access to it easier and less demanding with moving the flash card back and forth between the Neo and a reader, when populating it with a new kernel and rootfs image. How and when do you suppose that is coming along? In general, how do I put such functionality road map priority wishes through? Bugzilla? Or is that only for actual defects? Thanks, Peter -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note: the contents of this email are not intended to be legal advice nor should they be relied upon as or represented to be legal advice. Jon Phillips does not represent any organization through this email address. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
SMS is required + fix for battery drained isse (was: 2007.11 snapshot available)
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Jon Phillips wrote: Priorities for mass usage: 1. phone working 2. acceptable battery life (1 full day without charge) Am I wrong? It depends how you define as mass and usage. Maybe it is enough for the US, but if you define the average European mobile phone user a part of mass, then you are wrong and yes, text text messaging (SMS) is an absolute requirement for European mobile phone users. While some die-hard developers (even European ones) may consider SMS an obsolete concept which was there before email over GPRS was possible, SMS is still an essential communication medium in Europe which is even an requirement for feasible mobile phone (GSM) use in middle-Europe, at least. While it could be just considered convinient to be able to exchange information with people which are in meetings, lectures or a libraries for study where they cannot talk (one friend, I __can__ only contact by SMS) and even if you would put aside that it is part of culture to exchange private SMS messages in Europe (and I assume also Asia), there is one additional reason why it's not a practical solution to live without SMS in middle-europe: There are several reasons why one is not reachable all the time even with the Neo: One might be out of network coverage, out of battery, in meetings, lectures, libraries or (e.g. movie) theater, or sleeping and for that people in Europe use a mobile phone box which every german network provider provides as part of their standard offerings. These mobile phone boxes inform the called person of received calls and voice messages over SMS. If you do not get these SMS, you'd have to constantly poll the voice mail box, you'd never get to know about people trying to call you but not leaving a message and the polling would get pretty expensive when you are abroad due to roaming costs. So can we __please__ put the thought of text messaging (SMS) being optional for mass __usage__ (not resting, as it's now) to rest now? Of course it's not neccesary if you do not plan to ready the Neo for mass-sales in the next 5 years. By then maybe everying is done thru mails, but for now, it's all still done thru SMS in middle Europe at least. BTW, SMS works with Qtopia: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo1973 Thanks. Besides, the SD card is not very practical to use if you do not have a way to exchange from the outide without hasse (means: whithout having to remove the back cover, battery, sim card and have both SIM and SD mounted in this fragile way). So I agree: Mass Storage mode for the SD card would be something expected by the average user here as well. Of course, standby (suspend time) of more than a day would also be required, and it's also not tolerable that the Neo sits dead on the USB cord for lots of hours when the battery is drained: Either the 500mA charging has to be available at all times (also when the battery is is completely empty), or a charger which is able to instatanously power-on the Neo so that there is no interruption in phone use when the battery is completely drained must be provided. Alternatively, an additional battery for replacing the drained battery, to power the device would be needed. Otherwise, OpenMoko == mobile Phone is a big joke for me. Bernhard - A GTA01v4 owner who will not be able to use a GTA02 as phone if the charging issue is not fixed, the suspend time issue is not fixed in the GTA02 and SMS is not provided. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
Shawn Rutledge skrev: Yes all the ipkg's you need exist, but there isn't enough flash to install them all. What I did is reformat a MicroSD card to ext2, cp -a /usr to the card, then modify /etc/fstab to automatically mount the card on /usr at boot. Then install task-base-dev and whatever else you need. The regular image is not modified much (since nearly all the new files are installed under /usr), so you can still run without that card, but if you have it mounted you have all the tools. Thanks, exactly what I was hoping for. Is all in the default repository's or did You have to hunt it down? My plan was to mount the sd card as /dev and use 'ipkg -d /dev' to install all dev related. But I'm not sure about all needed to tie it all up (PATH, lsconfig etc). Will try Your way insted, it's proven and I'm not really going to switch sd-card (unless to get a bigger one, but that uncommon enough so a little extra work is no problem). Now off to flash 2007.11 and getting on to it. Thanks again /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMS is required + fix for battery drained isse (was: 2007.11 snapshot available)
On Dec 4, 2007 5:45 PM, Bernhard Kaindl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it is enough for the US, but if you define the average European mobile phone user a part of mass, then you are wrong and yes, text text messaging (SMS) is an absolute requirement for European mobile Plenty of people use SMS in the US too, especially teenagers. More would use it if certain GSM carriers didn't charge extra for each individual message, both sending and receiving (shame on you TMobile in this regard). Besides, the SD card is not very practical to use if you do not have a way to exchange from the outide without hasse (means: whithout having to remove the back cover, battery, sim card and have both SIM and SD mounted in this fragile way). So I agree: Mass Storage mode for the I agree wholeheartedly but if we're talking about hardware mods, I could come up with quite a laundry list: - slide-in SIM slot (like A1200) rather than any of the kind with flip-over covers; or one that's accessible from outside, like an SD card - SD slot accessible from outside is mandatory (maybe even full-size SD if there could be space - like E680i) - make it as slim as possible (half as thick? well I'm dreaming) but a little wider is OK if necessary (bigger screen is fine too) - get rid of that hanger hole - make the touchscreen flush with the front, not recessed - stylus storage - multi-touch - quad-band - two buttons on the front for call/answer (green) and hangup/back-to-main-menu (red), backlit - NFC radio (near-field communications) - wifi (but that's planned) - sane GPS chip (but that's planned) - antenna jacks for the radios (WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS) - work with existing USB charger cables (detect the resistors in them and go to 500mA) The Motorola A780 has the best slot for a MicroSD that I've ever seen on any device. It acts just like a regular full-size SD slot - push the card in to install, and push again to make it pop back out. It pops out far enough that you can easily grab it. And the slot is accessible without removing the back cover (although there is a little rubber cover over that area, to keep it clean presumably). The SIM slot could potentially be built like that too. I guess the goal hasn't been sexy hardware, just hacker-friendly, right? But before being sexy it could at least have really excellent usability. Either the 500mA charging has to be available at all times (also when the battery is is completely empty), or a charger which is able to instatanously power-on the Neo so that there is no interruption in phone use when the battery is completely drained must be provided. At least, if everyone insists that it's dangerous to draw 500mA without asking (even though so many devices do just that), we could at least have an easily accessible menu to turn on the 500mA charging (but it's a pain to do that every time you plug in to charge). Or detect the resistors embedded in USB charger cables. Or FIC could sell chargers which are smart enough to answer when the Neo tries to ask for 500mA (both AC kind and 12V kind). A desktop charger would be nice (but I assume some existing Nokia ones from ebay will work? I haven't tried yet) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
On Dec 4, 2007 7:13 PM, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, exactly what I was hoping for. Is all in the default repository's or did You have to hunt it down? Just do ipkg install like usual (assuming you have set things up so that the phone has 'net access, like via NAT over USB) My plan was to mount the sd card as /dev and use 'ipkg -d /dev' to install all dev related. /dev has a reserved meaning (device nodes). But I'm not sure about all needed to tie it all up (PATH, lsconfig etc). Maybe ipkg -d takes care of some of the work for you, but I haven't tried lately (seems like something was not quite right when I tried it on the zaurus a while back). ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
Shawn Rutledge skrev: On Dec 4, 2007 7:13 PM, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, exactly what I was hoping for. Is all in the default repository's or did You have to hunt it down? Just do ipkg install like usual (assuming you have set things up so that the phone has 'net access, like via NAT over USB) great! But I hit some kind of brick wall... The dfu-util that comes with 2007-11 cant run om my ubuntu 7.10 (gutsy) system (seams not to be recognized as a binary at all. MD5 sum is OK, and yes, execute rights is set). The only other I found is from April, it runs but feels too old. Specially as the README tell me to flash uboot (my is from May). Have no debugboard so I really not willing to take extra chances on that. Reports of usb trouble in gutsy does not make it feel better :-/ BTW: readme say 'use August uboot' but ther is a newer in 2007-11 dir itself. Is that less stable? Maybe I should wait for it to be stable, not having a debugboard I realy want to flash uboot as few times as ever possibly. Might later attempt putting kernel stuff on hold and upgrade with ipkg. If it renders phone unusable (until reflash) it's OK. But I really want a working 'pda' for developing. My plan was to mount the sd card as /dev and use 'ipkg -d /dev' to install all dev related. /dev has a reserved meaning (device nodes). Doh, t late at night... should *realy* not attempt flashing uboot now :-) But I'm not sure about all needed to tie it all up (PATH, lsconfig etc). Maybe ipkg -d takes care of some of the work for you, but I haven't tried lately (seems like something was not quite right when I tried it on the zaurus a while back). OK, Thanks for the info. /LaH ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
First, while I have done basically what you are talking about, I am now a believer in cross compile environments, even with all their pain. Several years ago, I built roadmap-gtk2 on my h2200 ipaq because I couldn't then get the cross compile environment set up. It took over a day and locked the system up more then once (it actually elapsed over 3 days). The same build takes about 15 minutes on my Epia MII 1.2GHz desktop (and that isn't a _fast_ system - just quiet :) Lars Hallberg wrote: Shawn Rutledge skrev: On Dec 4, 2007 7:13 PM, Lars Hallberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My plan was to mount the sd card as /dev and use 'ipkg -d /dev' to install all dev related. But I'm not sure about all needed to tie it all up (PATH, lsconfig etc). Maybe ipkg -d takes care of some of the work for you, but I haven't tried lately (seems like something was not quite right when I tried it on the zaurus a while back). ipkg-link (from ipkg-utils) does what you want (and is what I used). I don't know how available it is in the current images - you may need to build it yourself. It can bork your system a bit if you don't know what you are doing (your system becomes dependent on that SD card, basically) but when set up properly - it allows you to do all this stuff pretty seemlessly. ipkg -d by itself does nothing except install the package to that location - if it is a library or anything else that needs to be found in a system path, you either have to set up all the symlinks manually, or you have to use ipkg-link. you can install everything you want to the card (provided they are not dependent on each other) and then run 'ipkg-link $card' (whatever your card is) and it will link everything found on the card. YMMV, you should be able to find packages for most if not all of what you need in the way of libraries, compilers, etc... Rgds, josh ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Development env *on* the neo?
My plan was to mount the sd card as /dev and use 'ipkg -d /dev' to install all dev related. But I'm not sure about all needed to tie it all up (PATH, lsconfig etc). lame path name. use /hak instead. (or set your phone up to boot from SD and then just install everything you need like normal ..) ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SMS is required + fix for battery drained isse
Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Shawn Rutledge wrote: On Dec 4, 2007 5:45 PM, Bernhard Kaindl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it is enough for the US, but if you define the average European mobile phone user a part of mass, then you are wrong and yes, text text messaging (SMS) is an absolute requirement for European mobile Plenty of people use SMS in the US too, especially teenagers. More would use it if certain GSM carriers didn't charge extra for each individual message, both sending and receiving (shame on you TMobile in this regard). I have T-Mobile and I pay $10 a month for unlimited text and mms. Not all that expensive. I pay less than 0.12478098 U.S. dollars per SMS message. And that's with a crappy expensive one here in norway (Cash caller card thingy, pay $45 use it all to call/send, but sort of pricey calling). What are T-mobiles prices per sms? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
