Re: New to OpenMoko

[clare]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote:


Welcome to OpenMoko, Barry!

All you need to do is flash a new kernel and file system. Get the latest from

http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/

Good luck and let us know how it goes,



Hi Michael,

Another little difficulty:
on that site, there are Snapshot images which are clearly labelled gta01 
and gta02.


But how do I tell which are the gta01 out of pairs carrying only 
identifiers such as  svnr3801   and svnr3874  ?


THank you,
clare

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RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[左 国坤]

Hi, Lorn,

Looking forward to your snapshot release.

> You shouldn't need to turn off the gsm/modem to make a voip call.
> 
> If there's a voip and gsm network active at the same time, Qtopia should
> popup a dialog and ask the user which one to use (in the case of a
> dialed number). as for a uri, it will always use voip, for obvious
reasons.
In fact, In my test circumstom, no GSM network is available. So I select
VOIP by 
Settings-->Call Networks. 

Best Regards.

George
> - Original Message -
> Subject: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],"LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION"

> Date: 18-01-2008 10:33 am
> 
> 
> 左 国坤 wrote:
> > Dear Lorn,
> > 
> > tks for your reply.
> > 
> > Where can I DL your snapshot?
> > Sorry for my no more information about this.
> > 
> > Best Regards.
> > 
> > George
> 
> I am still working on voip, once I know it works for the Neo, I will put
> a new snapshot up at qtopia.net, and will let you know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech



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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Lorn Potter]

左 国坤 wrote:
> Dear Lorn,
> 
> tks for your reply.
> 
> Where can I DL your snapshot?
> Sorry for my no more information about this.
> 
> Best Regards.
> 
> George

I am still working on voip, once I know it works for the Neo, I will put
a new snapshot up at qtopia.net, and will let you know.




-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Lorn Potter]

左 国坤 wrote:
> Hi, Lorn,
> 
> thank you for your suggestions.
> I have switched to Aireplane mode after add alsactl -f /etc/gsmhandset
> restore to /etc/init.d/qpe on Line 64. 
> and then restart device. But now no any call can be received and when do a
> out call, a warning tell me 
> 'You can't make a call at Airplane mode'.


You shouldn't need to turn off the gsm/modem to make a voip call.

If there's a voip and gsm network active at the same time, Qtopia should
popup a dialog and ask the user which one to use (in the case of a
dialed number). as for a uri, it will always use voip, for obvious reasons.


Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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OpenMoko case -- FYI re 3D CAD formats

[Ron K. Jeffries]

regarding 3D model interchange file formats,
a friend who is expert tells me:

"IGES and step files are the universal exchange formats"

I can not promise, but... my friend has access to ProE.
It's conceivable I may be able to get his help
to convert native ProE to something else.

-
Ron K. Jeffries

ron_jeffries  [Skype]
http://twitter.com/rjeffries
805-567-4670
http://blog.eronj.com

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RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[左 国坤]

Dear Lorn,

tks for your reply.

Where can I DL your snapshot?
Sorry for my no more information about this.

Best Regards.

George
> - Original Message -
> Subject: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION"

> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: 18-01-2008 9:56 am
> 
> 
> Lorn Potter wrote:
> > 左 国坤 wrote:
> >> Hi, Nick
> >>
> >> tks for your advice.
> >> how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
> >> if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
> >> Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
> >> gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build
Qtopia
> >> source, if it is, how to do it?
> >>
> >> By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host
PC
> >> ethernet, but not GSM, when
> >>  using VoIP.
> >>
> >> Your any good advice will be highly appreciated.
> > 
> > Perhaps airplane mode is what you want?:
> > 
> >>From the homescreen Options->Profile->(scroll down) airplane mode
> > 
> > or from Settings->Profiles->Airplane Mode
> > 
> > other than that, I could add scripts to the Devtools to turn off the
> > power to gsm.
> > 
> > 
> 
> Airplane mode wasn't actually working on the Neo. I just fixed it
> though, so it will work in the next snapshot.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech



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Only 6 days to go: Live, worldwide, and free broadcast - Java Mobile & Embedded Developer Days

[Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile & Embedded]

News Flash:

The Java Mobile & Embedded Developer Days will be broadcast live,
worldwide, and for free! Only 6 more days to go ...

Newsletter #5:

  https://developerdays.dev.java.net/newsletters/MEDD-Countdown5.pdf

See you there or online!

-- Terrence


begin:vcard
fn:Terrence Barr
n:Barr;Terrence
org:Sun Microsystems
adr:;;Zettachring 10 A;Stuttgart;;70587;Germany
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Evangelist, Java Mobile & Embedded Community
tel;work:+49 711 720 98185
url:http://www.mobileandembedded.com
version:2.1
end:vcard

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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Lorn Potter]

Lorn Potter wrote:
> 左 国坤 wrote:
>> Hi, Nick
>>
>> tks for your advice.
>> how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
>> if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
>> Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
>> gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build Qtopia
>> source, if it is, how to do it?
>>
>> By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
>> ethernet, but not GSM, when
>>  using VoIP.
>>
>> Your any good advice will be highly appreciated.
> 
> Perhaps airplane mode is what you want?:
> 
>>From the homescreen Options->Profile->(scroll down) airplane mode
> 
> or from Settings->Profiles->Airplane Mode
> 
> other than that, I could add scripts to the Devtools to turn off the
> power to gsm.
> 
> 

Airplane mode wasn't actually working on the Neo. I just fixed it
though, so it will work in the next snapshot.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[左 国坤]

Hi, Lorn,

thank you for your suggestions.
I have switched to Aireplane mode after add alsactl -f /etc/gsmhandset
restore to /etc/init.d/qpe on Line 64. 
and then restart device. But now no any call can be received and when do a
out call, a warning tell me 
'You can't make a call at Airplane mode'.

any advice?

Regards.

George

> - Original Message -
> Subject: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],"LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION"

> Date: 18-01-2008 8:16 am
> 
> 
> 左 国坤 wrote:
> > Hi, Nick
> > 
> > tks for your advice.
> > how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
> > if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
> > Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
> > gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build
Qtopia
> > source, if it is, how to do it?
> > 
> > By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
> > ethernet, but not GSM, when
> >  using VoIP.
> > 
> > Your any good advice will be highly appreciated.
> 
> Perhaps airplane mode is what you want?:
> 
> From the homescreen Options->Profile->(scroll down) airplane mode
> 
> or from Settings->Profiles->Airplane Mode
> 
> other than that, I could add scripts to the Devtools to turn off the
> power to gsm.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech



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RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[左 国坤]

Hi, Nick,

I have tried the method of 
Hi, Nick,

I have tried Mikael suggested, no any improved.

> - Original Message -
> Subject: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> From: NICK GUENTHER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "033$B:8033(B 033$B9Q:%033(B" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"LIST FOR
OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION" 
> Date: 18-01-2008 8:16 am
> 
> 
> 2008/1/17 左 国坤 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hi, Nick
> >
> > tks for your advice.
> 
> Oh! Oh no, don't be thankful. It was totally a guess. I ONE HUNDRED
> PERCENT disclaim that I know about anything I'm talking about.
> Try what Mikael suggested first and report back.
>  (btw you can edit qpe.sh onboard the neo, just ssh into it and use
> vi--there's no need to reflash the entire image)
> 
> > how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
> > if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
> > Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
> > gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build
Qtopia
> > source, if it is, how to do it?
> 
> I'll respond to this for the curiousity, not for giving actual helpful
> advice: I'm not sure. Maybe buried in Main Menu->Settings->Call
> Networks->GSM somewhere. Or maybe if you go into Home
> Screen->Options->Options->Airplane Safe Mode and out again.
> 
> > By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
> > ethernet, but not GSM, when
> >  using VoIP.
> >



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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Lorn Potter]

左 国坤 wrote:
> Hi, Nick
> 
> tks for your advice.
> how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
> if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
> Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
> gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build Qtopia
> source, if it is, how to do it?
> 
> By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
> ethernet, but not GSM, when
>  using VoIP.
> 
> Your any good advice will be highly appreciated.

Perhaps airplane mode is what you want?:

>From the homescreen Options->Profile->(scroll down) airplane mode

or from Settings->Profiles->Airplane Mode

other than that, I could add scripts to the Devtools to turn off the
power to gsm.


-- 
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech


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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Nick Guenther]

2008/1/17 左 国坤 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi, Nick
>
> tks for your advice.

Oh! Oh no, don't be thankful. It was totally a guess. I ONE HUNDRED
PERCENT disclaim that I know about anything I'm talking about.
Try what Mikael suggested first and report back.
 (btw you can edit qpe.sh onboard the neo, just ssh into it and use
vi--there's no need to reflash the entire image)

> how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
> if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
> Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
> gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build Qtopia
> source, if it is, how to do it?

I'll respond to this for the curiousity, not for giving actual helpful
advice: I'm not sure. Maybe buried in Main Menu->Settings->Call
Networks->GSM somewhere. Or maybe if you go into Home
Screen->Options->Options->Airplane Safe Mode and out again.

> By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
> ethernet, but not GSM, when
>  using VoIP.
>

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Re[2]: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Lorn Potter wrote:
> Zeth Green wrote:
>> Back to the topic, I am interested in OpenMoko for two reasons. Firstly, and
>> most importantly, as has been previously expressed, the current Android 
>> platform proposals and similar Linux phones such as motorola's own Linux
>> platform are thoroughly uninteresting to me so far, there are already a 
>> million phones that let you develop within the Java sandbox only. 

> Note that Motorola are planning a native sdk in the near future for 
> their "motomax' gui or whatever they are currently calling it.

Also note that they have been talking about a native SDK since years
now. So... please don't hold your breath :D

:M:

-- 
Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de


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RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[左 国坤]

Hi, Nick

tks for your advice.
how can i kill the gsm function in software level?
if using openmoko fw, the gsm can be turned down easily, but when using
Qtopia, it seems no menu to kill
gsm module or process. Maybe I have to do some configure before build Qtopia
source, if it is, how to do it?

By the way, I am using a USB connection to internet via bridging host PC
ethernet, but not GSM, when
 using VoIP.

Your any good advice will be highly appreciated.

Regards.

George
> - Original Message -
> Subject: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> From: NICK GUENTHER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION"

> Date: 17-01-2008 7:50 pm
> 
> 
> On 1/17/08, Mikael Lammentausta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  2008/1/16, 左 国坤 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > Hi, Lorn,
> > >
> > > I have tried
> > > alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state restore
> > > but no any improvement.
> > >
> > > can you please tell me when you release your improved snapshot?
> > >
> > > Regards.
> > >
> > > George
> > >
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > 件名: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> > > > From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,"LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY
> > DISCUSSION"
> > > 
> > > > 日付: 15-01-2008 10:39 am
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 左 国坤 wrote:
> > > > > Hi, all
> > > > >
> > > > > I am using VOIP by compile Qtopia 4.3.1 Open source for Neo1973
> > Phase1.
> > > > > I need your help to clear some problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1, Incoming call
> > > > >  ringtone OK, Answer OK, Hold OK, But No VOICE from Caller, and
vice
> > > versa.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2, Out Call
> > > > >  Keeping with 'Dialing' status, NO Call Tone, No connection to the
> > other
> > > > > end
> > > > >
> > > > > I am a newbie in using Qtopia, maybe something missed in setting
when
> > > > > building.
> > > >
> > > > Nope. something is missing from Qtopia :)
> > > > We are currently working on this, I think I will post a new snapshot
> > > > image when voip is working.
> > > >
> > > > You man manually run alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state
restore
> > > > and try that.
> > > >
> >
> > You can also try this:
> >
> >
> > mount the qtopia image, insert this into /etc/init.d/qpe on line 64:
alsactl
> > -f /etc/gsmhandset.state restore
> >
> >
> >
> > Save the image to a jffs2 file and re-flash the device.
> >
> > I've no idea how this differs from the instructions you had earlier, but
I
> > don't think it hurts either. Worked for me.
> 
> 
> It's probably a timing issue tied to when the GSM chip is powered up.
> 
> -Nick
> 
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Re: office

[Clarke Wixon]

Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> On Jan 15, 2008 5:45 PM, Tim Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is anyone aware of any office apps being developed for openmoko.  I'm not
> > so much concerned with editing as I am viewing.  Are there any lightweight
> > office viewing apps that would be compatible with open office, and m$
> > office?
> 
> None that I know of. My first guess would be a port of Abiword.

Both Abiword and Gnumeric work reasonably well, but there are
user-interface problems (the toolbars, dialogs, and menubars
are generally way too big).

But if you can deal with those problems (or tweak the X dpi or the
theme settings) they are actually quite usable.  Surprisingly so.

If you want to build Abiword 2.5.2, I suggest going to the OE
bugtracker and using the updated bitbake recipe and patches I posted
there, to fix text-size problems on the ruler.  These haven't made it
to the OE repository, unfortunately.

(I can't post a link to the bug, as the site seems to be down
at the moment.  Just do a query for "abiword" on bugs.openembedded.org.)

Given that Abiword and Gnumeric work so well already, perhaps someone
might like to redesign the UIs for OpenMoko.  Since both applications
appear to use libglade that shouldn't be too hard to do.



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Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Robin Paulson]

On 18/01/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am preparing the right place to put the files. I have a question:
>
> "case schematics" is the wrong name. What is the right name? "CAD
> Files"? "ID CAD Files"? "CAD Drawings"? Someone in the field help me out
> here.

they are CAD files yes, but the name needs to reflect their purpose
and content, i.e. what they are CAD files of.

i think 'case schematics' is fine, but i would say that, since i chose
it (i'm a draughtsman by the way)

maybe something from the following:
what are they of? the case/body/housing
what are they? drawings/models/schematics/layout/diagrams

i'm sure whatever you choose will be fine

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Re: New to OpenMoko

[Michael Shiloh]

Thanks Clare,

You are absolutely right, and we've known it. We need to make this more 
visible. It's just been a matter of resources and priorities.


We will get to this very shortly..

Michael

clare wrote:

Hi Michael,
THis is a very interesting site. It is *very* disappointing that it has 
been so well hidden from me  as a wiki user - ..

YOu will see at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories
that the latest from
*  Official downloads

* Recent/latest builds

is  21 Nov and 1 Dec.


clare.


On Wed, 16 Jan 2008, Michael Shiloh wrote:


Welcome to OpenMoko, Barry!

All you need to do is flash a new kernel and file system. Get the 
latest from


http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/

Good luck and let us know how it goes,

Michael



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RFC: OpenMoko meetings in Vienna? (Was: Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park)

[Michael Shiloh]

Jay,

(I encourage everyone to change subject lines as necessary to reflect a 
shift in the topic)


That's a great idea, and I hope it takes off. Hopefully someone from 
OpenMoko can visit at some point. In the future, we'd like to support 
these sort of meetings in some way.


Michael

Jay Vaughan wrote:

On Jan 17, 2008, at 11:08 AM, john wrote:

On the topic of events ...


I was wondering if anyone in this community would like to have regular 
meetings here in Vienna, Austria, to discuss OpenMoko stuff?  We could 
do it weekly at MetaLab:  http://metalab.at


Any interest?



;


--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Michael Shiloh]

Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:



Wolgang, someone made a wiki entry at 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_case_schematics, so this would 
likely be a good place to place the Pro-E schematics for the Neo1973.



I am preparing the right place to put the files. I have a question:

"case schematics" is the wrong name. What is the right name? "CAD 
Files"? "ID CAD Files"? "CAD Drawings"? Someone in the field help me out 
here.


It will be a big zipfile, probably over 30MByte. Perhaps later we'll 
break it out so those of you with slow connections can get only what you 
want, but for now it's all one big file. I'll find the right place to 
put this.


Michael


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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Lorn Potter]

Zeth Green wrote:

Back to the topic, I am interested in OpenMoko for two reasons. Firstly, and 
most importantly, as has been previously expressed, the current Android 
platform proposals and similar Linux phones such as motorola's own Linux
platform are thoroughly uninteresting to me so far, there are already a 
million phones that let you develop within the Java sandbox only. 


Note that Motorola are planning a native sdk in the near future for 
their "motomax' gui or whatever they are currently calling it.




--
Lorn 'ljp' Potter
Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech

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Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Jeremiah Flerchinger]

Thanks to Mario for the link.  I'll have to try MEDUSA in the next few 
days.  From the documentation, it looks like it may be like BRLCAD and 
require a copy of ProE for the coversion (hopefully not), but we'll have 
to wait & see unless someone already knows for sure.


I'm glad to see a decision has been made regardless.  Wolfgang & the 
OpenMoko team will give us files in the same format they use, insuring 
no degradation of dimensional information between them & us, and I'm 
sure we can find some programs & people that can convert the files from 
there.  We can at least try.  Getting the files like this should at 
least speed up the process for the OpenMoko team.


Wolgang, someone made a wiki entry at 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_case_schematics, so this would 
likely be a good place to place the Pro-E schematics for the Neo1973.


Jeremiah


Wolfgang Spraul wrote:

Mario -

thanks, that is good to see.
After long discussions, we have settled on releasing the files in 
Pro/E .asm/.prt format, the same as used by our mechanical engineers. 
Zero loss of fidelity. Highest quality.

Expect to see more from Michael soon.
Thanks again for the link.

Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Rogen, Mario wrote:


I did not follow the whole discussion but today i've read about a CAD
Software which is free for personal use and i think it is able to
read/import? Pro-E files:
http://www.medusa4.com/index.php?screen=1.3&ziel=Products-MEDUSA&land=co
m maybe someone knows more details?


Best regards

Mario


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang
Spraul
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

Jeremiah -

thanks for the detailed information, it is indeed very helpful.
The file format is the last open question. We have been looking into it
the whole day.
We are concerned that we release a file that will not be really useful
for the purpose we are trying to achieve - allow for custom cases, case
addons, mods.

Our internal engineers use Pro/E Wildfire 3.0. They believe an export to
DXF would severely limit the ability to use the file in an actual custom
case project.
Of course it may be that they are just most familiar with Pro/E.
So at the moment I am leaning towards releasing the GTA01 case design in
the original Pro/E format (.asm/.prt), with zero loss in fidelity. That
would also make it easier for us in the future to release more such
data, because our engineers could make sure the files we are releasing
are really high quality and useful data, rather than as a last step
exporting to a format they never use, and hope the exported file is
still useful.

It would probably be posted as an attachment in our wiki (about 70 MB).
If someone can do a conversion to a more open format as part of a real
project, and thus keep the quality/usability of the file intact, that
would be great!
What do you think?

Regards,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:


Wolfgang Spraul wrote:

Jeremiah -
thanks for the information, that is indeed very helpful.
Your list includes DXF, that was the preference before.
I am concerned that the export process will corrupt the
file and we release a file that will be painful to actually use.

From the formats you listed (Wavefront, DXF, STL), which
is your preference?
Which one do you believe is a format where Pro/E can
export all information into, without loosing much?

I'm not very familiar with internal structure/format of DXF
files, but have written software that uses STL and Wavefront files.
I'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

The most information would be lost with STL files.  DXF files

would likely loose the least information and Wavefront would be
somewhere between.  This is dependent on how good the converters in ProE
are.  Often only the most basic features of the Wavefront format are
implemented in applications and a surface description equal to or only
slightly better than a STL file is achieved.  This could also apply to
DXF files, depending on the quality of the converter and the app that
reads them in, but I bet the converter in ProE is pretty good.

One issue is there are many versions of the DXF file format.  A

quick search shows Blender supports a subset of objects up to DXF
version 2007.  Art of Illusion only loads from ASCII DXF files and is
limited to vertex information.  Of course as long as the conversion is
good & loads well for a couple apps, we could do additional conversions
on our own.

I believe an ASCII DXF format would be more accurate for most

people and lose the least amount of information in the conversion.
There may be fewer version compatibility issues with Wavefront files,
but DXF readers can also often read newer files than they were design

Re: New to OpenMoko

[Ian Darwin]

On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 02:03:01PM +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote:
> Well, first, it will be less of a decision, but rather something like survival
> of the fittest. Second, compiled languages are fine for performance
> critical stuff. Coding application logic in a scripting language makes
> much more sense to me. At the end of the day, efficiency at creation
> time can matter more than efficiency at run time. I expect this to be
> an important factor in the future -- if not already.

Please! 

For example, the dialer logic for phone numbers has to be scriptable.
How can it possibly know which numbers are long distance?  What if
I have a long-distance plan that works by dialing through another
number and getting dialtone, but only if I'm in an area that is not
long-distance to my home area code? What about how to decide whether
to dial over the cell network or over VOIP (SIP or IAX), based on
whether the ping I sent my VOIP provider a minute ago succeeded?

All of this is going to want scripting, and that's just for the dialer app
(though it may be one of the most complex sets of rules).

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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[dwight at supercomputer.org]

SVHMPC is more about encouraging and supporting people to do their 
own thing, rather than one single platform. A support network for 
different projects,  to exchange ideas,  share information, and 
encourage innovation.

It's a heck of a lot of fun to sit around and talk with a bunch of 
bright technical people who share similar interests.

So I'd say SVHMPC includes anyone who wants to show up and share what 
they are doing. Trolltech, OpenMoko, or what have you.

As far as Trolltech goes, I don't think they gained much traction due 
to the closed nature of parts of the hardware platform. But anyone 
working with Qt is welcome to show off their work. And some are 
working in that direction. But certainly not all.

In fact, there was an excellent presentation from OpenMoko last 
night. Similar to what was given by Trolltech when they were showing 
off their Greenphone last summer.

This was in addition to the OLPC discussion, as some of the people 
were working on a communications project with OLPCs in Africa.

   -dwight-


On Wednesday 16 January 2008 05:00:59 pm Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Lorn reminds me that there is another option in the "open source
> Linux frameworks for mobile devices" space. (I think SVHMPC wanted
> to include Trolltech as well. Not sure what happened.) (And of
> course there are other options besides these three.)
>
> So the questions remain: What features make you choose one over
> the other?
>
> And in particular, regarding Lorn's point below, how do you feel
> about the different APIs?
>
> By the way, this is not meant to start an "us vs. them" battle.
> I'm not out to prove that one is better than the other.
>
> Android, Qtopia, and OpenMoko are all different, and each is aimed
> at a different type of developer. I'm interested in understanding
> what those differences are, and how they influence a developer's
> choice.
>
> Michael
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: New to OpenMoko
> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:45:27 +1000
> From: Lorn Potter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
> 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],List for OpenMoko community discussion
> 
> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> andy selby wrote:
> > * ..Err help me out here Lorn
>
> u, better programming API? ;)
>
>
> ___
> OpenMoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



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Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Wolfgang Spraul]

Mario -

thanks, that is good to see.
After long discussions, we have settled on releasing the files in Pro/ 
E .asm/.prt format, the same as used by our mechanical engineers. Zero  
loss of fidelity. Highest quality.

Expect to see more from Michael soon.
Thanks again for the link.

Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Rogen, Mario wrote:


I did not follow the whole discussion but today i've read about a CAD
Software which is free for personal use and i think it is able to
read/import? Pro-E files:
http://www.medusa4.com/index.php?screen=1.3&ziel=Products-MEDUSA&land=co
m maybe someone knows more details?


Best regards

Mario


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang
Spraul
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

Jeremiah -

thanks for the detailed information, it is indeed very helpful.
The file format is the last open question. We have been looking into  
it

the whole day.
We are concerned that we release a file that will not be really useful
for the purpose we are trying to achieve - allow for custom cases,  
case

addons, mods.

Our internal engineers use Pro/E Wildfire 3.0. They believe an  
export to
DXF would severely limit the ability to use the file in an actual  
custom

case project.
Of course it may be that they are just most familiar with Pro/E.
So at the moment I am leaning towards releasing the GTA01 case  
design in
the original Pro/E format (.asm/.prt), with zero loss in fidelity.  
That

would also make it easier for us in the future to release more such
data, because our engineers could make sure the files we are releasing
are really high quality and useful data, rather than as a last step
exporting to a format they never use, and hope the exported file is
still useful.

It would probably be posted as an attachment in our wiki (about 70  
MB).

If someone can do a conversion to a more open format as part of a real
project, and thus keep the quality/usability of the file intact, that
would be great!
What do you think?

Regards,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:


Wolfgang Spraul wrote:

Jeremiah -
thanks for the information, that is indeed very helpful.
Your list includes DXF, that was the preference before.
I am concerned that the export process will corrupt the
file and we release a file that will be painful to actually use.

From the formats you listed (Wavefront, DXF, STL), which
is your preference?
Which one do you believe is a format where Pro/E can
export all information into, without loosing much?

I'm not very familiar with internal structure/format of DXF
files, but have written software that uses STL and Wavefront files.
I'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

The most information would be lost with STL files.  DXF files
would likely loose the least information and Wavefront would be
somewhere between.  This is dependent on how good the converters in  
ProE

are.  Often only the most basic features of the Wavefront format are
implemented in applications and a surface description equal to or only
slightly better than a STL file is achieved.  This could also apply to
DXF files, depending on the quality of the converter and the app that
reads them in, but I bet the converter in ProE is pretty good.

One issue is there are many versions of the DXF file format.  A
quick search shows Blender supports a subset of objects up to DXF
version 2007.  Art of Illusion only loads from ASCII DXF files and is
limited to vertex information.  Of course as long as the conversion is
good & loads well for a couple apps, we could do additional  
conversions

on our own.

I believe an ASCII DXF format would be more accurate for most
people and lose the least amount of information in the conversion.
There may be fewer version compatibility issues with Wavefront files,
but DXF readers can also often read newer files than they were  
designed

for at a lower level of detail.

Jeremiah



Thanks,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Jeremiah Flerchinger
wrote:


I don't think ProE by itself is suitable,
especially since you need a copy of ProE even to import it to  
BRLCAD.  I

myself would suggest Wavefront (.obj), ASCII DXF (.dxf), or STL (.stl)
file.  All are standard formats & should be in ProE and any other 3D
editor.

Instructions for converting from ProE to STL are
as follows:

ProE

* File > Export > Model
* STL

RE: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Rogen, Mario]

I did not follow the whole discussion but today i've read about a CAD
Software which is free for personal use and i think it is able to
read/import? Pro-E files:
http://www.medusa4.com/index.php?screen=1.3&ziel=Products-MEDUSA&land=co
m maybe someone knows more details?


Best regards

Mario


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wolfgang
Spraul
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

Jeremiah -

thanks for the detailed information, it is indeed very helpful.
The file format is the last open question. We have been looking into it
the whole day.
We are concerned that we release a file that will not be really useful
for the purpose we are trying to achieve - allow for custom cases, case
addons, mods.

Our internal engineers use Pro/E Wildfire 3.0. They believe an export to
DXF would severely limit the ability to use the file in an actual custom
case project.
Of course it may be that they are just most familiar with Pro/E.
So at the moment I am leaning towards releasing the GTA01 case design in
the original Pro/E format (.asm/.prt), with zero loss in fidelity. That
would also make it easier for us in the future to release more such
data, because our engineers could make sure the files we are releasing
are really high quality and useful data, rather than as a last step
exporting to a format they never use, and hope the exported file is
still useful.

It would probably be posted as an attachment in our wiki (about 70 MB).
If someone can do a conversion to a more open format as part of a real
project, and thus keep the quality/usability of the file intact, that
would be great!
What do you think?

Regards,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:


Wolfgang Spraul wrote: 

Jeremiah - 
thanks for the information, that is indeed very helpful.
Your list includes DXF, that was the preference before.
I am concerned that the export process will corrupt the
file and we release a file that will be painful to actually use.

From the formats you listed (Wavefront, DXF, STL), which
is your preference?
Which one do you believe is a format where Pro/E can
export all information into, without loosing much?

I'm not very familiar with internal structure/format of DXF
files, but have written software that uses STL and Wavefront files.
I'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

The most information would be lost with STL files.  DXF files
would likely loose the least information and Wavefront would be
somewhere between.  This is dependent on how good the converters in ProE
are.  Often only the most basic features of the Wavefront format are
implemented in applications and a surface description equal to or only
slightly better than a STL file is achieved.  This could also apply to
DXF files, depending on the quality of the converter and the app that
reads them in, but I bet the converter in ProE is pretty good.

One issue is there are many versions of the DXF file format.  A
quick search shows Blender supports a subset of objects up to DXF
version 2007.  Art of Illusion only loads from ASCII DXF files and is
limited to vertex information.  Of course as long as the conversion is
good & loads well for a couple apps, we could do additional conversions
on our own.

I believe an ASCII DXF format would be more accurate for most
people and lose the least amount of information in the conversion.
There may be fewer version compatibility issues with Wavefront files,
but DXF readers can also often read newer files than they were designed
for at a lower level of detail.

Jeremiah



Thanks,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Jeremiah Flerchinger
wrote:


I don't think ProE by itself is suitable,
especially since you need a copy of ProE even to import it to BRLCAD.  I
myself would suggest Wavefront (.obj), ASCII DXF (.dxf), or STL (.stl)
file.  All are standard formats & should be in ProE and any other 3D
editor.

Instructions for converting from ProE to STL are
as follows:
 
ProE

* File > Export > Model
* STL
* Set chord height to 0. The field will be
replaced by minimum acceptable value.
* Set Angle Control to 1
* OK

ProE Wildfire

* File > Save a Copy > Model
* Change type to STL (*.

Re[2]: New to OpenMoko

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Carlo E. Prelz wrote:
> Subject: Re[2]: New to OpenMoko
> Date: Thu 17 Jan 08 01:11:13PM +0100

> Quoting Michael 'Mickey' Lauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

>> > No, openmoko uses GTK.
>> 
>> Yes, the current incarnation. There are various interest groups
>> working on different and higher level APIs. I'm very confident that we
>> can distill the best framework out of all these initiatives. This is
>> the open source way  

> As long as you do not decide to precipitate from C to C++...

Well, first, it will be less of a decision, but rather something like survival
of the fittest. Second, compiled languages are fine for performance
critical stuff. Coding application logic in a scripting language makes
much more sense to me. At the end of the day, efficiency at creation
time can matter more than efficiency at run time. I expect this to be
an important factor in the future -- if not already.

> PS any news of a model with a QWERTY keyboard, a-la Nokia E61i? This
> would be much welcome (at least from me)

Same here :)

Regards,

:M:

-- 
Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de


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Re: New to OpenMoko

[john]

/me is another QWERTY fan.

I recently had to replace my dead Treo 650 with another QWERTY
solution. I bought a cheap smart phone running Windows Mobile. I am
now in league with the devil :)

IMO I think there is a market for low-cost QWERTY smart phones. I
think something like the Sidekick Slide targeting the "yoof" market
would be a good addition later on down the line.

John.

> PS any news of a model with a QWERTY keyboard, a-la Nokia E61i? This
> would be much welcome (at least from me)
>

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Re: New to OpenMoko

[Carlo E. Prelz]

Subject: Re[2]: New to OpenMoko
Date: Thu 17 Jan 08 01:11:13PM +0100

Quoting Michael 'Mickey' Lauer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> > No, openmoko uses GTK.
> 
> Yes, the current incarnation. There are various interest groups
> working on different and higher level APIs. I'm very confident that we
> can distill the best framework out of all these initiatives. This is
> the open source way :)

As long as you do not decide to precipitate from C to C++...

;-)

Carlo

PS any news of a model with a QWERTY keyboard, a-la Nokia E61i? This
would be much welcome (at least from me)

-- 
  * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte,
* K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe
  *   di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu)

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Re: CAD files for the case of the Neo will be made available

[Wolfgang Spraul]

Jeremiah -

thanks for the detailed information, it is indeed very helpful.
The file format is the last open question. We have been looking into  
it the whole day.
We are concerned that we release a file that will not be really useful  
for the purpose we are trying to achieve - allow for custom cases,  
case addons, mods.


Our internal engineers use Pro/E Wildfire 3.0. They believe an export  
to DXF would severely limit the ability to use the file in an actual  
custom case project.

Of course it may be that they are just most familiar with Pro/E.
So at the moment I am leaning towards releasing the GTA01 case design  
in the original Pro/E format (.asm/.prt), with zero loss in fidelity.  
That would also make it easier for us in the future to release more  
such data, because our engineers could make sure the files we are  
releasing are really high quality and useful data, rather than as a  
last step exporting to a format they never use, and hope the exported  
file is still useful.


It would probably be posted as an attachment in our wiki (about 70  
MB). If someone can do a conversion to a more open format as part of a  
real project, and thus keep the quality/usability of the file intact,  
that would be great!

What do you think?

Regards,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:


Wolfgang Spraul wrote:


Jeremiah -
thanks for the information, that is indeed very helpful.
Your list includes DXF, that was the preference before.
I am concerned that the export process will corrupt the file and we  
release a file that will be painful to actually use.


From the formats you listed (Wavefront, DXF, STL), which is your  
preference?
Which one do you believe is a format where Pro/E can export all  
information into, without loosing much?
I'm not very familiar with internal structure/format of DXF files,  
but have written software that uses STL and Wavefront files.  I'll  
answer to the best of my knowledge.


The most information would be lost with STL files.  DXF files would  
likely loose the least information and Wavefront would be somewhere  
between.  This is dependent on how good the converters in ProE are.   
Often only the most basic features of the Wavefront format are  
implemented in applications and a surface description equal to or  
only slightly better than a STL file is achieved.  This could also  
apply to DXF files, depending on the quality of the converter and  
the app that reads them in, but I bet the converter in ProE is  
pretty good.


One issue is there are many versions of the DXF file format.  A  
quick search shows Blender supports a subset of objects up to DXF  
version 2007.  Art of Illusion only loads from ASCII DXF files and  
is limited to vertex information.  Of course as long as the  
conversion is good & loads well for a couple apps, we could do  
additional conversions on our own.


I believe an ASCII DXF format would be more accurate for most people  
and lose the least amount of information in the conversion.  There  
may be fewer version compatibility issues with Wavefront files, but  
DXF readers can also often read newer files than they were designed  
for at a lower level of detail.


Jeremiah


Thanks,
Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 10:37 AM, Jeremiah Flerchinger wrote:

I don't think ProE by itself is suitable, especially since you  
need a copy of ProE even to import it to BRLCAD.  I myself would  
suggest Wavefront (.obj), ASCII DXF (.dxf), or STL (.stl) file.   
All are standard formats & should be in ProE and any other 3D  
editor.


Instructions for converting from ProE to STL are as follows:

ProE

* File > Export > Model
* STL
* Set chord height to 0. The field will be replaced by minimum  
acceptable value.

* Set Angle Control to 1
* OK

ProE Wildfire

* File > Save a Copy > Model
* Change type to STL (*.stl)
* Set Chord Height to 0. The field will be replaced by minimum  
acceptable value.

* Set Angle Control to 1
* OK

I'm sure the process would be similar to convert to either of the  
other 2 formats.


Jeremiah Flerchinger



Wolfgang Spraul wrote:


Esben -
Interesting. I checked on BRLCAD's website

Converting Geometry Between BRL-CAD and other Formats, Page 17
http://ftp.brlcad.org/VolumeIV-Converting_Geometry.pdf

and it seems Pro/E import is actually quite solid. However you  
need a seat of Pro/E to do the conversion.
Is releasing in Pro/E format (.prt and .asm files) an acceptable  
way?

Wolfgang

On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:36 AM, Esben Stien wrote:


Wolfgang Spraul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


Regarding the format, the original is in Pro/Engineer Assembly
(.asm) and Part (.prt) files. That's probably hard to digest  
for any

FOSS CAD software.


BRLCAD[0] has preliminary support for this format.

[0]http://brlcad.org/

--
Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s  a
http://www. s tn m
 irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
  sip:b0ef@   e

Re[2]: New to OpenMoko

[Michael 'Mickey' Lauer]

Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Lorn Potter writes:
>>andy selby wrote:
>>
>>u, better programming API?  

> No, openmoko uses GTK.

Yes, the current incarnation. There are various interest groups
working on different and higher level APIs. I'm very confident that we
can distill the best framework out of all these initiatives. This is
the open source way :)

Regards,

:M:

-- 
Dr. Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | IT-Freelancer | http://www.vanille-media.de


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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Jay Vaughan]

This is what I've currently got on my OM:


i would dearly love to have pyglet, personally ..

;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Tim Knapp]

Hi Zeth,

On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 11:08 +, Zeth Green wrote:
> > So the questions remain: What features make you choose one over the other?
> > And in particular, regarding Lorn's point below, how do you feel about 
> > the different APIs?
> 
> I am a lurker in the Openmoko world at the moment. I am not a hardware person 
> and my ideas for applications involve a functional GSM. So I had a play with 
> the Qemu image but I am patiently waiting for GTA02/FreeRunner and will get 
> into things properly in Easter or whenever you guys are happy with the 
> hardware (no rush). I imagine there are many people in that position.
> 
> Back to the topic, I am interested in OpenMoko for two reasons. Firstly, and 
> most importantly, as has been previously expressed, the current Android 
> platform proposals and similar Linux phones such as motorola's own Linux
> platform are thoroughly uninteresting to me so far, there are already a 
> million phones that let you develop within the Java sandbox only. Do we really
> need another one? Linux phones that in practice are less open than Symbian 
> seem a step backwards to me.
> 
> For myself I like scripting languages, Python being my favourite, and I am 
> hoping the OpenMoko will either come with some kind of scripting language or 
> let me get one via the package manager. (I'm sure you guys have a plan for
> this - as I said I am just a lurker so do not know all the details yet).

I'm a python fan too:

ipkg install python-core

gives you python 2.5!!

This is what I've currently got on my OM:
libpython2.5-1.0 - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Programming Language
python-codecs - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Codecs, Encodings & i18n Support
python-core - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Interpreter and core modules (needed!)
python-fcntl - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python's fcntl Interface
python-io - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Low-Level I/O
python-lang - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Low-Level Language Support
python-math - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Math Support
python-misc - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Programming Language
python-pickle - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Persistence Support
python-pycairo - 1.4.0-ml0 - Python Bindings for the Cairo canvas
library
python-pygobject - 2.12.3-r3 - Python GObject bindings
python-pygtk - 2.10.4-ml5 - Python GTK+ 2.10.x Bindings
python-re - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Regular Expression APIs
python-readline - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Readline Support
python-shell - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Shell-Like Functionality
python-subprocess - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Subprocess Support
python-threading - 2.5.1-ml6 - Python Threading & Synchronization
Support

-Tim

> 
> Secondly, 400Mhz and 128MB of RAM is a lot of power, it was not that long a 
> go 
> that a laptop would have that much power, and on such a machine I want free/
> open source software that I can play with, i.e. this 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/28/Openmokoframework.png 
> is in some senses a fulfilment of this: 
> http://www.gnome.org/mobile/gmae-arch-diag.png 
> which I think is a very good development because there are Python bindings to 
> all of these things ;)
> 
> Best Wishes,
> Zeth
> 
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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Jay Vaughan]

For myself I like scripting languages, Python being my favourite,  
and I am
hoping the OpenMoko will either come with some kind of scripting  
language or
let me get one via the package manager. (I'm sure you guys have a  
plan for
this - as I said I am just a lurker so do not know all the details  
yet).




FWIW, I have my neo1973 currently set up with a full python  
environment, and even use a BT keyboard to hack code on the machine  
itself.  This works flawlessly and is a great - and I mean *great* -  
python setup.




;
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Re: What are pros and cons of the different devel environments: qtopia, android, openmoko

[Zeth Green]

> So the questions remain: What features make you choose one over the other?
> And in particular, regarding Lorn's point below, how do you feel about 
> the different APIs?

I am a lurker in the Openmoko world at the moment. I am not a hardware person 
and my ideas for applications involve a functional GSM. So I had a play with 
the Qemu image but I am patiently waiting for GTA02/FreeRunner and will get 
into things properly in Easter or whenever you guys are happy with the 
hardware (no rush). I imagine there are many people in that position.

Back to the topic, I am interested in OpenMoko for two reasons. Firstly, and 
most importantly, as has been previously expressed, the current Android 
platform proposals and similar Linux phones such as motorola's own Linux
platform are thoroughly uninteresting to me so far, there are already a 
million phones that let you develop within the Java sandbox only. Do we really
need another one? Linux phones that in practice are less open than Symbian 
seem a step backwards to me.

For myself I like scripting languages, Python being my favourite, and I am 
hoping the OpenMoko will either come with some kind of scripting language or 
let me get one via the package manager. (I'm sure you guys have a plan for
this - as I said I am just a lurker so do not know all the details yet).

Secondly, 400Mhz and 128MB of RAM is a lot of power, it was not that long a go 
that a laptop would have that much power, and on such a machine I want free/
open source software that I can play with, i.e. this 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/28/Openmokoframework.png 
is in some senses a fulfilment of this: 
http://www.gnome.org/mobile/gmae-arch-diag.png 
which I think is a very good development because there are Python bindings to 
all of these things ;)

Best Wishes,
Zeth



pgpwxcM9BCGT3.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Nick Guenther]

On 1/17/08, Mikael Lammentausta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  2008/1/16, 左 国坤 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hi, Lorn,
> >
> > I have tried
> > alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state restore
> > but no any improvement.
> >
> > can you please tell me when you release your improved snapshot?
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > George
> >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > 件名: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> > > From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ,"LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY
> DISCUSSION"
> > 
> > > 日付: 15-01-2008 10:39 am
> > >
> > >
> > > 左 国坤 wrote:
> > > > Hi, all
> > > >
> > > > I am using VOIP by compile Qtopia 4.3.1 Open source for Neo1973
> Phase1.
> > > > I need your help to clear some problems.
> > > >
> > > > 1, Incoming call
> > > >  ringtone OK, Answer OK, Hold OK, But No VOICE from Caller, and vice
> > versa.
> > > >
> > > > 2, Out Call
> > > >  Keeping with 'Dialing' status, NO Call Tone, No connection to the
> other
> > > > end
> > > >
> > > > I am a newbie in using Qtopia, maybe something missed in setting when
> > > > building.
> > >
> > > Nope. something is missing from Qtopia :)
> > > We are currently working on this, I think I will post a new snapshot
> > > image when voip is working.
> > >
> > > You man manually run alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state restore
> > > and try that.
> > >
>
> You can also try this:
>
>
> mount the qtopia image, insert this into /etc/init.d/qpe on line 64: alsactl
> -f /etc/gsmhandset.state restore
>
>
>
> Save the image to a jffs2 file and re-flash the device.
>
> I've no idea how this differs from the instructions you had earlier, but I
> don't think it hurts either. Worked for me.


It's probably a timing issue tied to when the GSM chip is powered up.

-Nick

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Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park

[john]

Flexibility - I know people developing apps on their Neo in Scheme,
Erlang you name it!

Timing - Already I am able to physically take my Neo out and test my
application with both GPS and GPRS running (within the power
management limitations).

John.

On 16/01/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good question, Jeffrey, and you suggest a question that I'd like to ask
> you, the community:
>
> Why do you chose to develop on OpenMoko, rather than on Android? Or do
> you do both?
>
> (Beside the lack of Android hardware)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> Jeffrey Thomas wrote:
> > I am unable to attend this meeting due to geography,
> but if anyone is in attendance I would be interested to hear the Google
> people's response to
> why they felt the need to start a competitive project rather than join
> the OpenMoko team.
> >
> > Michael, as an official in the OpenMoko community, I wouldn't expect you to 
> > ask this,
> but if someone else is in attendance, raise the question and report back
> to us!
> >
> > Jeffrey
> > Minnesota USA
> >
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
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Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park

[Jay Vaughan]

On Jan 17, 2008, at 11:08 AM, john wrote:

On the topic of events ...


I was wondering if anyone in this community would like to have  
regular meetings here in Vienna, Austria, to discuss OpenMoko stuff?   
We could do it weekly at MetaLab:  http://metalab.at


Any interest?



;


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Jay Vaughan





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Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park

[Nick Guenther]

On 1/16/08, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Good question, Jeffrey, and you suggest a question that I'd like to ask
> you, the community:
>
> Why do you chose to develop on OpenMoko, rather than on Android? Or do
> you do both?
>
> (Beside the lack of Android hardware)
>
> Michael

I could butter it up but it comes down to this: OpenMoko is
disorganized but Google is Evil.

In particular, the Android license
 does not sit well with me:
""" 9.3 Google may at any time, terminate this License Agreement with you if:
[...]
(C) the partner with whom Google offered certain parts of SDK (such as
APIs) to you has terminated its relationship with Google or ceased to
offer certain parts of the SDK to you; or

(D) Google decides to no longer providing the SDK or certain parts of
the SDK to users in the country in which you are resident or from
which you use the service, or the provision of the SDK or certain SDK
services to you by Google is, in Google's sole discretion, no longer
commercially viable. """


But that's just me
-Nick

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Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park

[john]

On the topic of events is anyone from OpenMoko or the community going
to the next Mobile Monday in London? The topic is "Mobile Operating
Systems":

[snip]
...
Helping us understand the landscape, where things are going and how to make
sense of it all will be speakers from Symbian, Microsoft and representing
the world of Linux, Trolltech.
...

It sounds a good one. I will be attending.

Regards,

John

-- http://zedstar.org

On 16/01/2008, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Sorry for the short notice.
>
> The monthly meeting of the Silicon Valley Homebrew Mobile Phone Club
> (SVHMPC) is tonight, and the topic is open source Linux frameworks
> for mobile devices.
>
> Google will discuss Android, and I'll discuss OpenMoko.
>
> The meeting is free and is held at The Tech Shop in Menlo Park. Details
> below.
>
> No RSVP is necessary, but if any of you think you'll come let me know so
> that I can make a point of meeting you.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michael
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: [SVHMPC] the meeting location for the 16th is the Tech Shop in
> Menlo Park
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [SVHMPC] the meeting location for the 16th is the Tech Shop in
> Menlo Park
>
>120 Independence Dr,  Menlo Park, CA 94025  (800) 640-1975
>
> The meeting is rescheduled to  be at 6:30 PM on Wednesday, January 16th,
> 2008. The subject for January's meeting will be open source Linux
> frameworks for mobile devices, including Google's Android environment
> and OpenMoko. We hope to have more detailed information soon.
>
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Re: OpenMoko will be at SVHMPC meeting TONIGHT in Menlo Park

[Jay Vaughan]

On Jan 16, 2008, at 11:00 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote:
Good question, Jeffrey, and you suggest a question that I'd like to  
ask you, the community:
Why do you chose to develop on OpenMoko, rather than on Android? Or  
do you do both?




OpenMoko got there first, and with working hardware too ..


;
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Re: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA

[Mikael Lammentausta]

You can also try this:

mount the qtopia image, insert this into /etc/init.d/qpe on line 64:

alsactl -f /etc/gsmhandset.state restore

Save the image to a jffs2 file and re-flash the device.

I've no idea how this differs from the instructions you had earlier, but I
don't think it hurts either. Worked for me.


2008/1/16, 左 国坤 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi, Lorn,
>
> I have tried
> alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state restore
> but no any improvement.
>
> can you please tell me when you release your improved snapshot?
>
> Regards.
>
> George
>
> > - Original Message -
> > 件名: RE: NO VOICE WHEN USING VOIP IN QTOPIA
> > From: LORN POTTER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],"LIST FOR OPENMOKO COMMUNITY DISCUSSION"
> 
> > 日付: 15-01-2008 10:39 am
> >
> >
> > 左 国坤 wrote:
> > > Hi, all
> > >
> > > I am using VOIP by compile Qtopia 4.3.1 Open source for Neo1973
> Phase1.
> > > I need your help to clear some problems.
> > >
> > > 1, Incoming call
> > >  ringtone OK, Answer OK, Hold OK, But No VOICE from Caller, and vice
> versa.
> > >
> > > 2, Out Call
> > >  Keeping with 'Dialing' status, NO Call Tone, No connection to the
> other
> > > end
> > >
> > > I am a newbie in using Qtopia, maybe something missed in setting when
> > > building.
> >
> > Nope. something is missing from Qtopia :)
> > We are currently working on this, I think I will post a new snapshot
> > image when voip is working.
> >
> > You man manually run alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capturehandset.state restore
> > and try that.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lorn 'ljp' Potter
> > Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech
>
>
>
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Re: New to OpenMoko

[Nick Guenther]

On 1/16/08, andy selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 16/01/2008, Wilkinson, Alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ok, OpenMoko newb (waiting for FreeRunner release) - so bare with me.
> >
> > Why would I use Qtopia images as opposed to OpenMoko images ?
>
> I haven't flashed an openmoko image in a while so I'm not sure how
> easy it is to get it usable as a phone but qtopia worked straight away
> and..
>
> *I like the UI
> *There is a gps app on qtopia
> *Usable with fingers (I lost my stylus)
> * ..Err help me out here Lorn
>
> Unfortunatly
>
> *there is no terminal
> *if it doesnt register to the network the phone stays locked

When this happens to me I just reboot it and the next time it works
(stays unregistered but I can use the apps).

> * battery life of ~ 5hours

Isn't this a hardware problem? The max idling time is about 7 hours
for the OpenMoko software; for actually using it as a phone, probably
5 hours.

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Re: New to OpenMoko

[Nick Guenther]

On 1/17/08, Barry Steele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> I've flashed the rootfs and a new kernel.
>
> So then I got all excited and inserted my SIM into it and powered up.
>
> Turns out I should have read some more.  My current phone (Nokia N80 -
> can I run openmoko on that?), is a 3G phone and it seems that the neo
> doesn't like it.
>
> I then stole one of my teams SIM and it fired up fine.  I get a GSM
> signal but cant make phone calls.
>
> I am still finding my way around the phone.
>
> I noticed that the icons disappeared from the home page, anyway I'm off
> to investigate the machine.

Sometimes they crash.
Use Qtopia.

> One thing though
>
> cu -l /dev/ttyACM0
>
> Only gives errors at present
> cu: open (/dev/ttyACM0): Permission denied
> cu: /dev/ttyACM0: Line in use
>

cu is finicky. Do `chown uucp.uucp /dev/ttyACM0`

> My Linux systems skills obviously need honing.
>
> Anyway, I'll head off and study now.
>
> Stay well,
> Barry
>
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > Welcome to OpenMoko, Barry!
> >
> > All you need to do is flash a new kernel and file system. Get the
> > latest from
> >
> > http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/
> >
> > Good luck and let us know how it goes,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > Barry Steele wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> I just took delivery of a neo1973 (I'm in Australia btw, Sydney).
> >> I have inserted the microSD and SIM cards and booted the machine up.
> >>
> >> I get the boot logo and then Linux tries to start but I get the
> >> following:
> >>
> >> "Kernel Panic- not syncing: No init found.  Try passing init= option
> >> to kernel"
> >>
> >> While I have a fair bit of Linux experience, I have no idea how to
> >> connect to the machine or edit files or whatever.
> >>
> >> I am looking on the Openmoko site, but I would really appreciate any
> >> advice.
> >>
> >> I am very excited by this.
> >>
> >> Stay well,
> >> Barry
> >>
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> --
>
> Barry Steele
> hpfm solutions
> http://www.hpfm.com.au
> (o) +612 8206 1822
> (f) +612 9929 3653
>
> Stay Happy, Stay Well, get involved...
>
>
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Liba Cohn, Travel Insurance For Peace Of Mind During Your Travels

[william romsay]

Liba Cohn,  Travel Insurance For Peace Of Mind During Your Travels

Liba Cohn
Liba Lyustiger
Lillian Sarah Lyustiger
lillian sarah cohn
sara lyustiger
natalija lyustiger
cohn lyustiger
sarah lyustiger


Vacationing at least once in a year has become an integral part of many
people's lifestyle and as such the travel insurance has gained in importance
like never before.

Just try to imagine the gravity of an emergency situation where you have to
deal with an emergency medical situation due to an illness or an accident or
injury. Any of these situations can throw you into a panic if you are not
adequately prepared. And this preparedness comes from having travel
insurance.

So next time you start planning for your next vacation, also include the
cost of the travel medical insurance into your budget. Remember, without
travel insurance your planning remains grossly incomplete. Even if you
consider yourself in a perfect state of health, you cannot predict when
accidents or sickness may befall you. Travel health insurance helps you to
be on the safe side, so that you do not get hit with a huge medical bill.

Here is some basic information about travel insurance that will help you be
well prepared for anything unexpected during your travels:

* Travel insurance in general does not just cover your medical expenses
abroad, but also extends coverage to lost luggage and other personal
belongings including passports and money. Repatriation costs are also
included in the coverage and the costs incurred due to cancelled or delayed
flights are also covered by the travel insurance. If you happen to damage
items belonging to a third party, you get liability coverage from your
travel insurance company. If you want all these expenses covered by your
travel insurance coverage, you should purchase a comprehensive travel
insurance policy.

* Most travel insurances generally cover trip cancellation, trip delays,
medical and dental expenses, emergency medical transportation, lost luggage,
missed connection, itinerary changes, accidental death, any kind of default
on the part of airlines, cruise lines and tour operators.

* It is recommended that you buy your travel insurance policy directly from
the insurance company, rather than having it as an add-on to your travel
package from your travel agent. This will give you considerable savings on
the cost of the travel insurance and you will be able to buy a policy with
more comprehensive features.

* Do not judge a policy on the basis of its price alone. A cheap policy does
not necessarily mean it is a bad policy. On the other hand the more
expensive policies may lack some of the more important features. So shop
around on the internet, compare the travel insurance quotes and find a
travel insurance product that caters to all your needs while traveling
abroad.

* Last of all, do not take any travel insurance policy for granted; go
through it in detail, take note of the disclaimer and make sure that you do
not get cheated on the important provisions of your coverage.
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