Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Heikki Sørum
God evening to you a/All. I'd agree that some types of tip a
programmer has some problems. It's been tried before and i think it
failed miserably.(At least languishes in obscurity).
But on the other hand, there might be a hidden gem inside the proposal.
Google's Summer of Code has proven to work, right?

So the alternative proposal is:
We create a community fund where people donate money. Each year
interested programmers send in a project description in the same manner
as Google summercode. Then openmoko and the community together 
select a number of such projects based in need and viability before the
community gets to vote on their priority. How many such projects get
funding will depending on how much the fund has accumulated during the
last year. Idealy we should empty the fund each year to ensure that
most of the money get spent on community projects.  After all, economics
has shown that money at 'work' generates far more long term interest
than money in the bank. ;)


sincerly, Heikki Soerum.


Den Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:29:01 -0400
Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev:

 On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   This tip a programmer idea is very interesting.  What does the
  community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll
  each donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of
  the sort.  This way, Openmoko can see what features are most
  important to the community and the community would be able to
  donate to OM to help develop and research future products.
 
 
 No, don't do this! For one, the overhead of managing that is and
 making sure all the details are fair to everyone is too much for what
 it'll pull in. For two, it'll mean that features get implemented, but
 not implemented well, and the coverage of features will be to the
 preferences of whoever (linux-land hacker, remember) pays the most,
 instead of what this phone needs to succeed commercially.
 Seriously, stay on track guys.
 -nick
 
 

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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-21 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:10 AM, Stefano Cavallari
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO
  card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
  I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB

I used to think like that too.  Maybe it's a good idea.  It would
certainly be way better for the environment.  However, it costs more
in several ways (engineering, components and space) to make it
modular, and for the idea to make sense you are relying on a couple of
things: that the handheld will satisfy you for such a long time (10
years maybe), and that it will make sense to continue to build modules
with whatever interface you chose at the beginning (considering that
the minimum-sized module you can build at the beginning will be
looking excessively big in a few years).  But technology moves faster
than you expect.  I think especially now, LCDs may be replaced with
OLEDs and EInk displays (both of which are less fragile, and each of
which has other advantages), and multitouch is becoming popular, and
embedded projectors may be the next must-have phone feature in a
couple more years, and graphene-based processors will eventually be
orders of magnitude faster than current silicon ones (if we are
looking far enough into the future).  Developers especially will tend
to want to write software for the newest devices.

However the Newton has had one of the longest lives, and the best
upgradeability too, because of the PCMCIA slot, and the software that
was so far ahead of its time.  Some people reportedly still use them
now, and have been able to to add various wireless networking
technologies to them.  So there's a device that really did have a 10+
year life.  But most people think they are too bulky.  Still if the
device does more, bulk can be tolerated, especially in exchange for a
really high-res screen.

The next thing I would really like to see standardized is batteries.
There are so many approximately the same size, but purposely
incompatible.  We've had names for standard cylindrical batteries for
longer than most people can remember, so why not a rectangular 1Ah
LiIon battery with just a letter name, like maybe R for rectangular?

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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Robin Paulson
2008/4/21 Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  This tip a programmer idea is very interesting.  What does the community
  think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each donate x
  amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort.  This way,
  Openmoko can see what features are most important to the community and the
  community would be able to donate to OM to help develop and research future
  products.

the problem with paying a bounty for these sort of things, is that
progammers then end up competing against each other, so are less
inclined to share their part-way results, thus potentially slowing
down a solution to the problem

this was shown quite clearly a couple of years back, with the 'get
windows xp to boot on an intel mac'. there was iirc, a 10k+ prize fund
by the end, and it was a return to the bad old days of closed-source
programming. no community, no-one helping each other

if people want to donate money when they feel like it, in an
un-advertised way, that's great, but setting bounties gets a -1 from
me

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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
 the problem with paying a bounty for these sort of things, is that
 progammers then end up competing against each other, so are less
 inclined to share their part-way results, thus potentially slowing
 down a solution to the problem

 this was shown quite clearly a couple of years back, with the 'get
 windows xp to boot on an intel mac'. there was iirc, a 10k+ prize fund
 by the end, and it was a return to the bad old days of closed-source
 programming. no community, no-one helping each other

I agree with this. I like to donate to a good project. I have my
FSF membership to prove that. Similar, we could have an
Openmoko membership. Maybe all the members got a neo
punch? The price of the membership could be something like
$25 pro anno.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:05:20 +0200, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



It's wonderful the focus of  the community is now
all about $399 vs $400 rather than availability
of Freerunner in certain colors.


That's the marvel of communities. All it takes is a good topic-starter. :-)


and YES I agree, the remaining V5 vs V6 issues seem small
(but we did get extra info and  clarification, thanks Tony).


BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the  
LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and  
eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with  
PWM to reduce it 6 times. This would bring the brightness and power  
consumption to normal. However, I suspect that for many community members  
who were so eager to prefer v6 over v5, simply knowing that there is a  
workaround, and thus no known unavoidable hardware bugs exist in v5, would  
be enough, and actually implementing the workaround would not be that  
important. :-)



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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:

and YES I agree, the remaining V5 vs V6 issues seem small
(but we did get extra info and  clarification, thanks Tony).


BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the 
LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and 
eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with 
PWM to reduce it 6 times. This would bring the brightness and power 
consumption to normal. 


Well, I didn't know there was also this software workaround, since the 
only that was stated was turning off the LED itself...
Anyway, according to the latest news also the v5 hardware shipped in MP 
will be fixed, so also this issue is gone away...


However, I suspect that for many community 
members who were so eager to prefer v6 over v5, simply knowing that 
there is a workaround, and thus no known unavoidable hardware bugs exist 
in v5, would be enough, and actually implementing the workaround would 
not be that important. :-)


Well, a workaround like this can be considered something like a real fix 
imho :P


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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Andy Powell
On Monday 21 April 2008 10:04, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
 On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:05:20 +0200, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 wrote:
snip

 BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the
 LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and
 eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with
 PWM to reduce it 6 times. 

Or just have it on for 1/6 the time or, if flashing, multiply the gap (off 
state) by 6. 1 second for v6 == 6 for v5


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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:35:44 +0200, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the
LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and
eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with
PWM to reduce it 6 times.


Or just have it on for 1/6 the time or, if flashing, multiply the gap  
(off state) by 6. 1 second for v6 == 6 for v5


It's exactly what PWM is about.


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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/21/08, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:35:44 +0200, Andy Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 
   BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the
   LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and
   eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with
   PWM to reduce it 6 times.
  
 

  Or just have it on for 1/6 the time or, if flashing, multiply the gap (off
 state) by 6. 1 second for v6 == 6 for v5
 

 It's exactly what PWM is about.


No. I do not think he was meaning PWM. I think I was meaning that the
interval between each blink could be e.g. 12 sec instead of 2 sec.

PWM is used in the on-time to blink the led on and off very fast so
that it appears as always on, but dimmed.

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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-21 Thread Stefano Cavallari
On Monday 21 April 2008 08:54:15 Shawn Rutledge wrote:
 On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 3:10 AM, Stefano Cavallari

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a
  SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
   I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are
  already USB

 I used to think like that too.  Maybe it's a good idea.  It would
 certainly be way better for the environment.  However, it costs more
 in several ways (engineering, components and space) to make it
 modular, and for the idea to make sense you are relying on a couple of
 things: that the handheld will satisfy you for such a long time (10
 years maybe), and that it will make sense to continue to build modules
 with whatever interface you chose at the beginning (considering that
 the minimum-sized module you can build at the beginning will be
 looking excessively big in a few years).  
I wasn't going that far in building the device 100% modular despite it would 
be cool. I was talking about just the UMTS/GSM part as it uses different 
frequencies in different regions, and it's not deployed everywhere.
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Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko

2008-04-21 Thread Tilman Baumann

Hans L wrote:


I'm still working on fully implementing these ideas (been setting up
my filing/reference system lately), but it seems to me a device
running Openmoko would be the perfect place to do much of this
organizing/planning/management.  And while I'm certainly not holding
out for my Freerunner before trying these methods, I do think it could
make a great addition to this system.


Yea.
It's basically traditional PIM, but with a certain magic touch.
So making the traditional PIM apps more process oriented would be a nice 
first step to a mobile GTD helper.


I think orienting the design of these components around DTD ideas would 
prove very rewarding...

Hello openhand UI/PIM gurus? :)

Regards
 Tilman

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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:43:18 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because  
the LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should  
(and eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the  
brightness with PWM to reduce it 6 times. This would bring the  
brightness and power consumption to normal.


Well, I didn't know there was also this software workaround, since the  
only that was stated was turning off the LED itself...


I didn't know that either. I've just made it up. Theoretically, it should  
work.


Well, a workaround like this can be considered something like a real fix  
imho :P


That is, if there is an easy way to do PWM without sucking too much CPU  
time. (Well, I suppose PWM will be used on the LEDs anyway for  
glowing/pulsing effects.)



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Re: turn GSM off?

2008-04-21 Thread Tilman Baumann

Peter Kraker wrote:
Yes it's possible, you just have to echo 0 to sys interface for gsm 
power management.

Ie:

echo 1  /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on

Nowadays it's called fic01 something I think. Just browse around a 
little bit.


Last time i checked there was a button in the 
hold-power-button-for-3-seconds-menu.


Regards
 Tilman

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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Sander van Grieken
On Monday 21 April 2008 02:39:38 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 steve ha scritto:
  I'll gladly put the price back to $650 which was the first price we
  released.

 LOL... BTW for me you can also put the price at 398 for staying a little
 more far from 399... :P

I vote for 398 too, but I'll send you a postcard in return :-P


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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:51:52 +0200, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Or just have it on for 1/6 the time or, if flashing, multiply the gap  
(off state) by 6. 1 second for v6 == 6 for v5



It's exactly what PWM is about.



No. I do not think he was meaning PWM. I think I was meaning that the
interval between each blink could be e.g. 12 sec instead of 2 sec.


Oops, I misread his post as if he meant microscopic instead of macroscopic  
intervals.



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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Stroller


On 20 Apr 2008, at 23:59, Sebastian Reichel wrote:

No pouch (better if openmoko brandized), btw? :(


I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :(


Que but the majority of users never use a pouch and you'd be  
better off using a $30 iPod sock responses.


Stroller.


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Re: Group Sales in Denmark

2008-04-21 Thread Ulrik Rasmusen
Sweet, we are already five people in Copenhagen :)

Ulrik

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 12:49:26PM +0200, Jens Fursund wrote:
 Just wanted to put the word out! We are five people in Denmark trying to
 make a group sale, so if anyone is interested please go to the Group
 Sales wiki-site and put your name in the list.
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
 
 Best Regards,
 
 Jens
 
 
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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Brandon Kruger
On Sun April 20 2008 8:29:01 pm Nick Guenther wrote:
 On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Sun April 20 2008 7:27:06 pm Kevin Dean wrote:
I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make
it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as
long as Openmoko makes profit. :)
   
If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer
program...
   
-Kevin
   
On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
 On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200

  Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99,
   respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly
   99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price
   by one dollar, AKA
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often
   associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price
   look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a
   hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the
   debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness
   and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out
   there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message:
   We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like
   others do.

  nice thought
  /sign



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   This tip a programmer idea is very interesting.  What does the
  community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each
  donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort. 
  This way, Openmoko can see what features are most important to the
  community and the community would be able to donate to OM to help develop
  and research future products.

 No, don't do this! For one, the overhead of managing that is and
 making sure all the details are fair to everyone is too much for what
 it'll pull in. For two, it'll mean that features get implemented, but
 not implemented well, and the coverage of features will be to the
 preferences of whoever (linux-land hacker, remember) pays the most,
 instead of what this phone needs to succeed commercially.
 Seriously, stay on track guys.
 -nick

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I wasn't suggesting we donate x amount to whatever developer achieves this.  
I'm suggesting a system where once some hardware or software feature is 
achieved, x users can contribute y dollar/euros to Openmoko to help fund 
future hardware/software development and research.  The donations would go as 
a generic donation to Openmoko, not to a specific developer for writing 
certain software.

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BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-21 Thread Steven Milburn
Good news, you're likely wrong :)

Don't project the current draw when on the charger to when on the battery.

It's very normal for the charger portion of a PMIC to be extremely
in-efficient.  I typically see less than 50% efficiency on chargers.  The
power system will be optimized for running off the battery, but charger
power is usually seen as a free an infinite resource for the phone. It's not
worth the cost and area to optimize the power usage from the charger, so
it's almost never done.

--Steve M

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


 Mhmhm... Does this mean that the freerunner uses about 100mA to stay on
 standby? And... Then that in about 12 hours of simple standby its battery
 will be out? :o

 I really hope I'm wrong...


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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Sun April 20 2008 8:29:01 pm Nick Guenther wrote:
   On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 8:19 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun April 20 2008 7:27:06 pm Kevin Dean wrote:
  I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make
  it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as
  long as Openmoko makes profit. :)
 
  If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer
  program...
 
  -Kevin
 
  On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200
  
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99,
 respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly
 99 dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price
 by one dollar, AKA
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is often
 associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the price
 look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a
 hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the
 debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness
 and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out
 there end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message:
 We're honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like
 others do.
  
nice thought
/sign
  
  
  
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 This tip a programmer idea is very interesting.  What does the
community think about setting up a site where people can say We'll each
donate x amount once y feature is integrated or something of the sort.
This way, Openmoko can see what features are most important to the
community and the community would be able to donate to OM to help develop
and research future products.
  
   No, don't do this! For one, the overhead of managing that is and
   making sure all the details are fair to everyone is too much for what
   it'll pull in. For two, it'll mean that features get implemented, but
   not implemented well, and the coverage of features will be to the
   preferences of whoever (linux-land hacker, remember) pays the most,
   instead of what this phone needs to succeed commercially.
   Seriously, stay on track guys.
   -nick
  
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  I wasn't suggesting we donate x amount to whatever developer achieves this.
  I'm suggesting a system where once some hardware or software feature is
  achieved, x users can contribute y dollar/euros to Openmoko to help fund
  future hardware/software development and research.  The donations would go as
  a generic donation to Openmoko, not to a specific developer for writing
  certain software.

  --
  

 Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Ok, so first, i also would like to see 400$ instead of 399$, because
it's simply a matter of being honest.

Then the bounty for code: i would rather see bountyes for bugfixes:
everyoen likes to implement new features, but nobody lieks maintaining
code. Another way of Bounty for developers that I really would like
is that the developers put there hoem adress somewhere in the wiki,
and then the user who like the feature can send him a postcard/thank
you card. A bit like Linus Torvalds originally made for Linux. That's
something that really would push me, as a developer, to do more. Maybe
it would help even more then a sporadic 5$ on my paypal account.

And for the openmoko subscription/club/frequent buyers: This coul be a
really great idea. A yearly membership fee, but for three
recommendations you get it for free (so if I recommend the phone to
three people i get the membership for free), and members get access to
a membership card, a pouch and a special homepage, where they can
browse all openmoko community created products and maybe get a 10%
discount or something like 

Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Fredrik Markström
Still no official comments on this issue ?

Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
spending $399 on another piece of potentially
useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
silent and unresponsive, using busy
with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

/Fredrik

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Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/21/08, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Still no official comments on this issue ?

 Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
 spending $399 on another piece of potentially
 useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
 silent and unresponsive, using busy
 with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

I think you have misunderstood the consept. Now Openmoko works
hard to bring out the GTA02 STK to software developers. The software
developers are the community. We will implement power management
and Openmoko is nice enough to help us by (they hired people just to
help us).


 The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

Then go and buy an iPhone if you rather have that. If you do not want
a developer edition, but a consumer ready phone, you should not
buy the Freerunner yet.

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Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko

2008-04-21 Thread Steven **
I use tasktoy (http://www.tasktoy.com), which is a GTD compliant todo
list.  But this is online only.  You could probably integrate it with
an app on Openmoko fairly easily, since the site supports adding tasks
from text messages.  It also sends reminders to email address (which
could also be a text message on pretty much every network).

-Steven

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've been reading a book lately called Getting Things Done(henceforth
  abbreviated as GTD) which basically proposes a strategy for
  organizing/managing your work and life to be more productive with less
  stress.  Instead of me attempting to explain it any more, a summary of
  the ideas behind GTD can be found on the author's website:
  http://www.davidco.com/what_is_gtd.php
  and a wikipedia entry for good measure ;-)
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_Things_Done

  I'm still working on fully implementing these ideas (been setting up
  my filing/reference system lately), but it seems to me a device
  running Openmoko would be the perfect place to do much of this
  organizing/planning/management.  And while I'm certainly not holding
  out for my Freerunner before trying these methods, I do think it could
  make a great addition to this system.

  So I've basically been thinking, what would the ideal(killer)
  application for GTD look like?  Since I'm still a newbie to GTD, it's
  not even completely clear to me what this app should be.  What
  specific features would be required? Are there currently any
  applications for Openmoko that come close?  Would it be good to start
  a project for a GTD-specifc app?
  I will explain some of the ideas I have in mind, but hopefully some
  other people on this list have read the book and been using this
  system for a while and they can chime in with some more input.

  One thing that I think is emphasized in the book is that whatever
  implementation you use for GTD, it should strive to be simple and even
  fun to use, because you want to make a habit of using it and staying
  organized, rather than finding yourself loathing and avoiding it.

  I can think of at least two main things that could be useful for GTD
  on Openmoko:
  1) Calendar reminders (this is already available in Openmoko from what
  I've read :-D )

  2) Lists: specifically *Context Sensitive* Lists
  It seems large part of GTD is simply about making lists:

  One aspect is listing all projects you are committed to, and defining
  the next action steps required to push each project towards
  completion.

  Another aspect of GTD is that you need to be reminded of things to do,
  but only in the appropriate context.
  Depending on the situation you are in, you need to be able to see a
  list of relevant tasks that need to be completed:
  At your phone, you might want to check a list of calls you need to
  make(calls might also go on a calendar if they need to be at specific
  times).
  In your car, you might want to check a list of errands you need to run.
  At home, you might want to check a list of things that can only be
  accomplished at home.
  At a computer, ...
  etc.

  What do you think?

  -Hans Loeblich

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RE: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread steve
I want a software switch that says  unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights
off on any app if I so choose.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey
Feldgendler
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:05 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:05:20 +0200, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:

 It's wonderful the focus of  the community is now
 all about $399 vs $400 rather than availability
 of Freerunner in certain colors.

That's the marvel of communities. All it takes is a good topic-starter. :-)

 and YES I agree, the remaining V5 vs V6 issues seem small
 (but we did get extra info and  clarification, thanks Tony).

BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the  
LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and  
eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with  
PWM to reduce it 6 times. This would bring the brightness and power  
consumption to normal. However, I suspect that for many community members  
who were so eager to prefer v6 over v5, simply knowing that there is a  
workaround, and thus no known unavoidable hardware bugs exist in v5, would  
be enough, and actually implementing the workaround would not be that  
important. :-)


-- 
Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
On Monday 21 April 2008 17:45:06 steve wrote:
 I want a software switch that says  unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights
 off on any app if I so choose.

Agreed.

:M:

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Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread thomasg
It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works.
Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost
399$.
In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes
and so on.

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Still no official comments on this issue ?

 Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
 spending $399 on another piece of potentially
 useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
 silent and unresponsive, using busy
 with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

 The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

 /Fredrik

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RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Crane, Matthew
Yea, not to mention all the extra crap you gotta pay if you want to have a 
broad base of sw.   These mobile devices are turning into platforms where 
software fees for dinky little apps are to be the primary source of income for 
the hardware mfgr, much like game consoles.  
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of thomasg
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !


It is always funny to see how the bad marketing works.
Still many people out there haven't noticed, that the iPhone doesn't cost 399$.
In fact it cost's 399$ + 24 monthly fees hidden behind some included minutes 
and so on.


On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Fredrik Markström [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Still no official comments on this issue ?

Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
spending $399 on another piece of potentially
useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
silent and unresponsive, using busy
with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

/Fredrik

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RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Crane, Matthew

Give me a break.  

1) Worst case, no fix, so led is disabled.  Phone is therefore useless?   Why 
do you exaggerate?  I speculate you are discouraging people so that they also 
waste there money on an iPhone and therefore partially validate your flawed 
decision to buy one.

2) Open development taken with current community size means we are already past 
the critical volume required to sustain long term access to knowledgeable 
people and web resources.  The traffic on the dev lists for openmoko is 
comparable to projects that sustain for many years.

3) iPhone + gps = 399$ + 150$


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fredrik Markström
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:28 AM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !


Still no official comments on this issue ?

Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
spending $399 on another piece of potentially
useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
silent and unresponsive, using busy
with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

/Fredrik

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Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fredrik Markström
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Still no official comments on this issue ?

  Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
  spending $399 on another piece of potentially
  useless hardware (GTA02).

If you think your GTA01 is useless, I'll buy it from you for $5 USD...
I'd love to have a spare battery for mine. I use the Neo1973 as my
primary phone and digital audio player. Furthermore, it's powered by
Free Software except for the bits that I'm explicitly informed are
NOT. Respecting my property rights is quite valuable IMO. The device
is functional enough to be used for me.

I'd advise ANYONE making value judgements to look at the definition of
value. It's inherently different for everyone, which is why the
ideas of commerce and sale and free markets work - because the
value of a good is different for one person than another and when that
exchange of values benefits BOTH parties, it is a good sale.

Power management issues are well known on GTA01 and there are people
who still think the device is a good value, myself included.  People
should evaluate their own uses and decide from themselves. Keep in
mind that without selling the Freerunner, there won't BE an improved
device.

 From my point of view openmoko might be as
  silent and unresponsive, using busy
  with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

As opposed to every other device manufacturer? I've never had Nokia or
Motorola or Samsung or anyone else fix my problems right away. One the
flip side, Openmoko is pretty clear about what's happening.
Furthermore, they were also pretty clear when I entered my credit card
information into the online storefront that there WOULD be issues with
the device and that it was a developer's edition.


  The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

And yet, this is the Openmoko community list, full of people who are
interested in Openmoko products. Some of us don't care one iota about
the iPhone because (again, that value thing) it's not worth our money.
For me, I'd not pay to be in Apple's golden cage - I'm sure others
fell the same way. For other people, iPhone is a social cliche -
useless because it's popular. If the iPhone is better than a product
offered by Openmoko, spend your money on an iPhone instead.


  /Fredrik

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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
For the record, my tip a programmer thing was almost pure sarcasm. I
find this discussion to be amusing by the level of absurdity in it.

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:57 AM, ramsesoriginal
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ok, so first, i also would like to see 400$ instead of 399$, because
  it's simply a matter of being honest.

How is Openmoko charging $399 dishonest?  Do you REALLY believe there
are people on the planet who are such consumer sheep that they'd part
with $399 but would be able to resist a $400 product?

I could PERHAPS see your arguement if Openmoko's advertising said
something like Affordably priced under four-hundred dollars I'd
think that MIGHT (and even that hesitantly) be misleading. This hasn't
been said. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. is
what was said, a simple statement of fact.

In the end, the price is $399. If you want to pay that, cool. Do so.
If you have a problem with that price, don't buy it. It is a decision
EVERY potential buyer will have to make based on their own criteria.
No human being can think for another.


  Then the bounty for code: i would rather see bountyes for bugfixes:
  everyoen likes to implement new features, but nobody lieks maintaining
  code. Another way of Bounty for developers that I really would like
  is that the developers put there hoem adress somewhere in the wiki,
  and then the user who like the feature can send him a postcard/thank
  you card. A bit like Linus Torvalds originally made for Linux. That's
  something that really would push me, as a developer, to do more. Maybe
  it would help even more then a sporadic 5$ on my paypal account.

  And for the openmoko subscription/club/frequent buyers: This coul be a
  really great idea. A yearly membership fee, but for three
  recommendations you get it for free (so if I recommend the phone to
  three people i get the membership for free), and members get access to
  a membership card, a pouch and a special homepage, where they can
  browse all openmoko community created products and maybe get a 10%
  discount or something like that. And at the yearly OpenmokoCon (and we
  sure are going to make it, aren't we?) the members get reserved places
  at the talks :D

  Jsut my two EuroCents

  --
  My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org



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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread AVee
On Monday 21 April 2008 17:45, steve wrote:
 I want a software switch that says  unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights
 off on any app if I so choose.

And then there also is a hardware solutions. A very generic one, available in 
any half-decent hardware store. I think they call 'm cutting pliers and 
will make sure those leds will never be turned on again...

AVee

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Steven Kurylo
  I would like to see the pouch in the package, too :(
 

 Que but the majority of users never use a pouch and you'd be better off
 using a $30 iPod sock responses.

Who would say suchs things?

Of course I think you *MUST* fit a pony in the box.  The freerunner
will never be popular without a pony.  I got a pony with my last phone
and everyone wants a pony!  Also you can get much cheaper ponies in
Asia then I can around here.  So those who don´t want a pony can throw
it in the bin or turn it into dinner.

Also buying a non-openmoko pony just isn´t the same thing.  Even if I
can use the openmoko logo to brand the pony myself...

-- 
Steven Kurylo

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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Jonathan Spooner
Oh great so in Europe that will equate to another 4 euros.. were you 
dropped on your head as a child?


Jon


Michele Renda wrote:

I agree, I'd like to pay for Freerunner 400$ in place of 399$

I alway liked 0 finishing number more than 9 finishing number.

I vote for 400$! It is a very strange request, I admit :)

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:


The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, 
respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 
dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one 
dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is 
often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the 
price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a 
hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the 
debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and 
transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end 
with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're honest 
with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”.






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Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Schmidt András
Experts can even use a 1kg hammer. Just be sure to find the right attack 
point the right direction and the right power of the hit.

AVee wrote:

On Monday 21 April 2008 17:45, steve wrote:
  

I want a software switch that says  unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights
off on any app if I so choose.



And then there also is a hardware solutions. A very generic one, available in 
any half-decent hardware store. I think they call 'm cutting pliers and 
will make sure those leds will never be turned on again...


AVee

  



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RE: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread steve
genius

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:36 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

On Monday 21 April 2008 10:04, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:
 On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:05:20 +0200, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 wrote:
snip

 BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the
 LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and
 eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with
 PWM to reduce it 6 times. 

Or just have it on for 1/6 the time or, if flashing, multiply the gap (off 
state) by 6. 1 second for v6 == 6 for v5


-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat

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Re: linux-openmoko build error

2008-04-21 Thread MartinG
On 4/12/08, M Nader [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I meant 4194. It is already fixed now.

I still get this error (see below). I did try to wipe my whole build
directory and started over, but got the same error again (three
times). Basically what I did was:

$ rm -rf ~/moko/*
$ cd ~/moko/
$ wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile
$ nice make setup
$ unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH; nice make update-makefile  nice make setup
update openmoko-devel-image

I also tried a make clean and started over, but got the same error.

Is there any file that I can fix manually. Hm, just notice that the
Makefile I got was from March 27. So, should
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile maybe be updated? ( wget
http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile
also gives a file from March 27.)

Where is the correct MokoMakefile?

---
NOTE: Running task 844 of 5445 (ID: 671,
/mnt/extra/moko/openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko_2.6.24+git.bb,
do_fetch)
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-2.6.24+git20080421: started
NOTE: package linux-openmoko-1_2.6.24+git20080421-r0: task do_fetch: started
NOTE: fetch 
http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz
--21:12:40--  
http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_git.openmoko.org.git.kernel.git_4194.tar.gz
Resolving downloads.openmoko.org... 88.198.93.219
Connecting to downloads.openmoko.org|88.198.93.219|:80... connected.
HTTP foresprrsel sendt, mottar topptekster... 404 Not Found
21:12:41 FEIL 404: Not Found.

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Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Schmidt András
Why the hell would a geek buy a shiny crap that can play f***ing top 
hits and show some idiot web pages for 400$. Who cares them???
Features are not why I am interested in Openmoko. Yet unimplemented 
features are what makes me interested.
A geek needs something hackable. Something with replacable software. 
Limited SDK-s, restrictive license and paying for features that are 
already implemented by the free world is not what people like here.
It is all about freedom and openness. It is so free that you are free 
not to understand.


Fredrik Markström wrote:

Still no official comments on this issue ?

Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
spending $399 on another piece of potentially
useless hardware (GTA02). From my point of view openmoko might be as
silent and unresponsive, using busy
with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

/Fredrik

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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
Hello Joachim.

Thank You for the information.

On 4/19/08, Joachim Steiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 the id pin is connected directly to pin9 of the pmu (adcin1)
 in addition to that there is one resistor of 100k(1%) to gnd and one of
 39k(1%) to pin8 of the pmu (accsw)
 now everyone should be able to do the math while looking at the pmu
 datasheet. ;)

I am looking at the PMU datasheet, and I just want to verify Your information.

In [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14 (page 119 in PCF50633 user manual), accsw is
connected to adcin1 with a 100k resistor and adcin is connected to gnd
with Racc. Is the information I got from You correct?

I will look at the current kernel driver to see how it is implemented, but I
assume ratiometric measurement is used (ref. PCD50633 user manual
@ page 102).

best regards,

Flemming Richter
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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-21 Thread Ortwin Regel
The problem with small handheld devices is that most of the time it's
cheaper to put everything into the device than to create variants.
Modularity causes problems with design and space and is also
expensive.
I also still need a GSM modem and will for a few years. Sure, I'd like
to use WLAN, Bluetooth and UMTS whenever possible but these networks
don't cover the whole country / most of the planet. When there is no
other network, I need GSM to get onto the internet, even if it's slow.

Ortwin

On 4/20/08, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (sorry for the length of this message)
 I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one
 noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which
 happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no
 longer
 existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore.
 So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the
 Internet, then do whatever you want from there.
 Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is
 in
 doing VoIP and IM.
 Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be
 mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the
 interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream
 communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and
 just
 provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi,
 bluetooth).
 Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO
 card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
 I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already
 USB
 UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to
 take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a
 bluetooth-serial
 chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses).
 This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the
 ear
 (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing).
 You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on.
 Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep
 this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need
 GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't
 have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if
 a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you
 still
 have the main product (the handheld) selling well.

 Just my (long) 2 ¢
 --



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photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Michael Shiloh
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are 
just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the 
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing 
GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my 
permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my 
originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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RE: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Richard Reichenbacher
The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are 
just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:

http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the 
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing 
GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my 
permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my 
originals, and create what you want.

Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Kosa
too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind 
of monitor do you have? :O


I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!

Thanks Michel Shiloh

Cheers!

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -



Richard Reichenbacher escribió:

The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are 
just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the 
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing 
GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my 
permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my 
originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Kosa

It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

Richard Reichenbacher escribió:

The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are 
just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the 
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing 
GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my 
permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my 
originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Johann Koenig
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!

It DOES NOT necessarily include earphones!!!
Just wanted to nip this rumor in the bud ...

  Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
 just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
-- 
-Johann Koenig

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ivo Anjo
Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad.

Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
grey, like the 1973 on this picture:
http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the
shipped version going to be all black?

Ivo

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind of
 monitor do you have? :O

  I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!

  Thanks Michel Shiloh

  Cheers!

  Kosa

  - Un mundo mejor es posible -



  Richard Reichenbacher escribió:



  The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
  To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
  Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
 
  Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
 just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
 
  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
 
  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
 this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
 assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
 download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
 create what you want.
 
  Michael
 
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Jan de Haan
Drool ;-)

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad.

  Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
  grey, like the 1973 on this picture:
  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the
  shipped version going to be all black?

  Ivo



  On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind of
   monitor do you have? :O
  
I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!
  
Thanks Michel Shiloh
  
Cheers!
  
Kosa
  
- Un mundo mejor es posible -
  
  
  
Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
  
  
  
The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
   
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
   
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
   just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
   
http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
   
If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
   this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
   assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
   samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
   download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
   create what you want.
   
Michael
   
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RE: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Daniel Barkalow
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote:

 The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos
 done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have
 greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to
 create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and
 then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things.
 
 Now, I realize that people want accessories.  So As this launch gets going
 I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs 
 
 Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business
 around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build
 your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories.  

No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the 
box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, 
but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for 
their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration 
options.

-Daniel
*This .sig left intentionally blank*

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ortwin Regel
Yes, I'm pretty sure there will only be the pure black color scheme.

On 4/21/08, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad.

 Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
 grey, like the 1973 on this picture:
 http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the
 shipped version going to be all black?

 Ivo

 On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind of
  monitor do you have? :O
 
   I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!
 
   Thanks Michel Shiloh
 
   Cheers!
 
   Kosa
 
   - Un mundo mejor es posible -
 
 
 
   Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
 
 
 
   The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
 Shiloh
   Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
   To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
   Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
  
   Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
  just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
  
   http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
  
   If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to
 turn
  this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
  assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
  samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
  download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
  create what you want.
  
   Michael
  
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Michael Shiloh
Please don't read too much into these pictures. They were taken by a 
poor camera in the hands of an even worse operator (me). Light was 
imperfect, and reflections abound.


I think in one of them you may see a reflection of my dog. This does not 
mean that every Neo Freerunner comes with a dog :-)


Michael

Federico Lorenzi wrote:

Just from looking at photos, it seems that 02's screen is a lot less
reflective then 01?

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!


 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible -

 Richard Reichenbacher escribió:



The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are

just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:

http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn

this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
create what you want.

Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ben Burdette
Black on black case is looking great!  Glad you're going with that for 
the freerunner. 


Michael Shiloh wrote:
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These 
are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome 
the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, 
testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need 
my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of 
my originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Michael Shiloh



Daniel Barkalow wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote:


The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos
done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have
greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to
create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and
then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things.

Now, I realize that people want accessories.  So As this launch gets going
I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs 


Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business
around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build
your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories.  


No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the 
box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, 
but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for 
their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration 
options.



It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for 
an Openmoko pouch.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread openmoko

Thanks a lot for those photographs helping us waiting for the device.

PS : Your camera doesn't seem to be a very good one ;)


Michael Shiloh a écrit :
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These 
are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome 
the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, 
testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need 
my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of 
my originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ben Burdette
I think it has a protective piece of plastic over the screen, for 
shipping.  You can see the tab where you pull off the plastic in one of 
the photos.


Federico Lorenzi wrote:

Just from looking at photos, it seems that 02's screen is a lot less
reflective then 01?

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!


 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible -

 Richard Reichenbacher escribió:





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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Ian Darwin
 No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the 
 box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, 
 but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for 
 their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration 
 options.

CAD files, we want CAD files for the pouch, so we can machine-cut them!!

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/21/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Please don't read too much into these pictures. They were taken by a poor
 camera in the hands of an even worse operator (me). Light was imperfect, and
 reflections abound.

 I think in one of them you may see a reflection of my dog. This does not
 mean that every Neo Freerunner comes with a dog :-)

What??? You will not send me your dog? That is a deal breaker;)

-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just
 a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:

  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/


Thank you. Wow. Finally, something real, after all this talking
about the freerunners. all that misses now is one of those babys in my
hands :D

  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
 this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
 assistance.

Well, the fotos are pretty noisy, what makes creating a good site a
pretty hard task. But I like the fotos, good job!

 I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
 samples, and shipping all of these items.

Keep on going!

 You don't need my permission -
 download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
 create what you want.

  Michael

Ok, thanks!

-- 
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Michael Shiloh

Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-)


Michael

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks a lot for those photographs helping us waiting for the device.

PS : Your camera doesn't seem to be a very good one ;)


Michael Shiloh a écrit :
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These 
are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome 
the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, 
testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need 
my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of 
my originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Georg Michelitsch

Ivo Anjo wrote on 04/21/2008 10:00 PM:

Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
grey, like the 1973 on this picture:

  
Afaik the Neo Freerunner case is totally black, the silver and orange 
ones have just been the cases for the GTA_01 devices.


cu, Georg


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RE: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread steve
Kevin,

  I loved your description about how commerce happens. Its because we
disagree, it's because we value things differently, that a trade happens.
People agree on a price because they disagree on the value. and that
foundational disagreement fuels innovation.

So, I like arguments.

WRT to Apple iImplants. if somebody wants to buy into the borg, I shrug. 

red pill? blue pill? choose.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 10:15 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; List for Openmoko community
discussion
Subject: Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fredrik Markström
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Still no official comments on this issue ?

  Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
  spending $399 on another piece of potentially
  useless hardware (GTA02).

If you think your GTA01 is useless, I'll buy it from you for $5 USD...
I'd love to have a spare battery for mine. I use the Neo1973 as my
primary phone and digital audio player. Furthermore, it's powered by
Free Software except for the bits that I'm explicitly informed are
NOT. Respecting my property rights is quite valuable IMO. The device
is functional enough to be used for me.

I'd advise ANYONE making value judgements to look at the definition of
value. It's inherently different for everyone, which is why the
ideas of commerce and sale and free markets work - because the
value of a good is different for one person than another and when that
exchange of values benefits BOTH parties, it is a good sale.

Power management issues are well known on GTA01 and there are people
who still think the device is a good value, myself included.  People
should evaluate their own uses and decide from themselves. Keep in
mind that without selling the Freerunner, there won't BE an improved
device.

 From my point of view openmoko might be as
  silent and unresponsive, using busy
  with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

As opposed to every other device manufacturer? I've never had Nokia or
Motorola or Samsung or anyone else fix my problems right away. One the
flip side, Openmoko is pretty clear about what's happening.
Furthermore, they were also pretty clear when I entered my credit card
information into the online storefront that there WOULD be issues with
the device and that it was a developer's edition.


  The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

And yet, this is the Openmoko community list, full of people who are
interested in Openmoko products. Some of us don't care one iota about
the iPhone because (again, that value thing) it's not worth our money.
For me, I'd not pay to be in Apple's golden cage - I'm sure others
fell the same way. For other people, iPhone is a social cliche -
useless because it's popular. If the iPhone is better than a product
offered by Openmoko, spend your money on an iPhone instead.


  /Fredrik

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Al Johnson
Well...it MIGHT include earphones. Please reread Michael's first paragraph.

On Monday 21 April 2008, Kosa wrote:
 It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!

 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible -

 Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
  The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
  To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
  Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
 
  Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
  just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
 
  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
 
  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to
  turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
  assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing
  GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my
  permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my
  originals, and create what you want.
 
  Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Federico Lorenzi
Just from looking at photos, it seems that 02's screen is a lot less
reflective then 01?

Cheers,
Federico

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:55 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It DOES include earphones!!! Just great!


  Kosa

  - Un mundo mejor es posible -

  Richard Reichenbacher escribió:


  The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
  Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
  To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
  Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
 
  Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
 just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
 
  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
 
  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn
 this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
 assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
 download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
 create what you want.
 
  Michael
 
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Re: Getting Things Done with Openmoko

2008-04-21 Thread Oliver Uvman
I am using the really excellent, open source, TRACKS to handle my GTD
business. It's an extremely awesome implementation that does pretty much
everything. It is web based, so I will be able to use it with my OpenMoko
using just the browser. :D

It seems to have good APIs, so creating an app that adds a task (and uploads
it whenever inside wifi range) shouldn't be too hard. I really advice you
all to check it out - even if you haven't read GTD (I haven't). I got
started using it in about five minutes after installation, which was quick
and painless thanks to some magic software that just bundles every
dependency it has (might be bloat if you already have a web server).
Alternatively, there might be publically usably web servers up already.
Might we one day see a http://gtd.openmoko.org?

/Oliver
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Carlo E. Prelz
Subject: Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Date: lun 21 apr 08 01:28:18 -0700

Quoting Michael Shiloh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

 Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-)

In exchange for the neo? 8-)

Carlo

-- 
  * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte,
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  *   di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu)

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread openmoko

lol

ok. I give you my cam, you give me your phone* ;)


*The neo of course ;)

Michael Shiloh a écrit :

Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-)


Michael

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks a lot for those photographs helping us waiting for the device.

PS : Your camera doesn't seem to be a very good one ;)


Michael Shiloh a écrit :
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These 
are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome 
the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, 
testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't 
need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct 
copies of my originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
 Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-)

I have a feeling that Michael will end up with a lot of cameras;)

Michael, maybe you should integrate a camera in GTA03 ;)

Btw, I am very happy that all you at Openmoko got this far. Soon I get my
open(moko) phone (which I dream about every minute... no, every sec.) :)

-- 
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Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
upon two simple questions:
1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)
2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
or for branding, and so on.

Has anyone got some input?

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

steve wrote:

The phone fits snuggly in a bed of foam, carved precisely to fit its form.


Well, looking at the photos taken by Michael (coverOffTrayRemoved*.jpg 
and coverTrayTriangle*.jpg first of all) it seems that under the phone's 
bed of foam there's enough space for pushing a pouch, isn't it?
And what about not shipping all the kinds of plugs (most of us would 
need only the one used in their country)?



But I like you Marco, So send me your address on my openmoko mail.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

I give you my pouch. 


Many thanks! I've sent my address, anyway I hope all the Freerunner 
buyers will get one :).


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/21/08, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
 upon two simple questions:
 1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)

I think it is Free your phone

-- 
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Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774

Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Rune Gangstø
Open source is more (or just Open is more) , was the first thing I
thougth about when I read this e-mail.
I think that a motto for openmoko should contain something about the
openness.



2008/4/21, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
 upon two simple questions:
 1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
 2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
 even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
 or for branding, and so on.

 Has anyone got some input?


 --
 My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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RE: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Crane, Matthew

Free your phone, and the mind will follow 

Or Hello Moko just for fun, to see how long motorolla's legal
department takes to send a cease and desist letter.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming
Richter Mikkelsen
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 5:01 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto


On 4/21/08, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
 upon two simple questions:
 1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting
People, ...)

I think it is Free your phone

-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774

Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
I recalled there was already some discussion about this, and after
reading through something like 300 mails ( xD ) i found this thread:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/007112.html

So, free your phone could be dangerous.

The fact that the motto should signify openness is (in my opinion) a
shure think.. the question is how :D

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:05 PM, Rune Gangstø [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Open source is more (or just Open is more) , was the first thing I
 thougth about when I read this e-mail.
 I think that a motto for openmoko should contain something about the
 openness.



 2008/4/21, ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 
 
  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
  --
  My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org
 
 
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RE: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

2008-04-21 Thread Tore Dalaker
There should also be some sort of time controlled switch to turn the 
blinking leds off at night, because nothing is more annoying than trying 
to sleep and then some lights starts blinking..


Med vennlig hilsen / Kind regards
Tore Dalaker
Rosenkrantzvegen 19
N-4353 Klepp Stasjon

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, steve wrote:


I want a software switch that says  unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights
off on any app if I so choose.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexey
Feldgendler
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:05 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 06:05:20 +0200, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


It's wonderful the focus of  the community is now
all about $399 vs $400 rather than availability
of Freerunner in certain colors.


That's the marvel of communities. All it takes is a good topic-starter. :-)


and YES I agree, the remaining V5 vs V6 issues seem small
(but we did get extra info and  clarification, thanks Tony).


BTW, there is a way to work around the v5 issue in software. Because the
LED in an unmodified v5 shines 6 or so times as bright as it should (and
eats 6 times more power), the solution is to correct the brightness with
PWM to reduce it 6 times. This would bring the brightness and power
consumption to normal. However, I suspect that for many community members
who were so eager to prefer v6 over v5, simply knowing that there is a
workaround, and thus no known unavoidable hardware bugs exist in v5, would
be enough, and actually implementing the workaround would not be that
important. :-)


--
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[ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Philippe Guillebert

ramsesoriginal wrote:

Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
upon two simple questions:
1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)
2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
or for branding, and so on.

Has anyone got some input?

  


Hello,

The answer is here : 
http://people.openmoko.org/sean/files/openmoko_trademark.pdf


Open. Mobile. Free or Free your Phone are part of official branding, 
there is also typographic and graphic rules for a good communication.


Logos file and other stuff can be found here : 
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy#Trademark_Policy


I've seen icon sets on the wiki somewhere, nothing about sound though.

Hope this helps

--
Phyce


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Free your phone, and the mind will follow


Aaargh... we'll all turn insane !!!
No, seriously, not a bad idea..

  Or Hello Moko just for fun, to see how long motorolla's legal
  department takes to send a cease and desist letter.


We coudl place bet's :D


On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Philippe Guillebert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote:

  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 

  Hello,

  The answer is here :
 http://people.openmoko.org/sean/files/openmoko_trademark.pdf


Huh.. cool! This answers soem of my questions!

  Open. Mobile. Free or Free your Phone are part of official branding,
 there is also typographic and graphic rules for a good communication.

That's great! as far as I understood it, the motto of Openmoko in
general is Open. Mobile. Free (great motto) and Free your Phone is
the motto for the Neo


  Logos file and other stuff can be found here :
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy#Trademark_Policy

Great ressource..


  I've seen icon sets on the wiki somewhere, nothing about sound though.

  Hope this helps


Shure thing, thanks!

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

Michael Shiloh wrote:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Thanks a lot for those photographs helping us waiting for the device.

PS : Your camera doesn't seem to be a very good one ;)


Anyone wishing to send me a better camera is welcome to do so :-)


Well, I think the problem isn't on the camera itself, but on the 
light... Maybe using the flash they would have been less noisy...


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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

ramsesoriginal wrote:

Thank you. Wow. Finally, something real, after all this talking
about the freerunners. all that misses now is one of those babys in my
hands :D


I agree... Finally we can see a box that seems quite ready to be shipped 
to all us :P, btw good photos of the phone with accessories were already 
at [1].


[1] http://tinyurl.com/5sh68w

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ben Wilson

Will it ship with powerpack adaptors for all countries?
I just noticed there's no adaptor for Australia/New Zealand in the pic.
Not that it would be a problem, most of us have an adaptor lying around 
somewhere.


Ben.

Michael Shiloh wrote:
Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These 
are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:


http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/

If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to 
turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome 
the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, 
testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need 
my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of 
my originals, and create what you want.


Michael

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Georg Michelitsch

ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 10:53 PM:

Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
upon two simple questions:
1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)
2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
or for branding, and so on.

Has anyone got some input?

  


Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like 
a standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies 
pratice) I think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile 
communication would be a nice alternation to Free your phone or 
open. mobile. free .. Even if I like the last two better as a motto I 
think that the first one suits better for some kind of system sound..


cu, Georg


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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Richard Guest
Beaten to the punch.
+1 for this question.

Rich

On 22/04/2008, Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Will it ship with powerpack adaptors for all countries?
 I just noticed there's no adaptor for Australia/New Zealand in the pic.
 Not that it would be a problem, most of us have an adaptor lying around
 somewhere.

 Ben.

 Michael Shiloh wrote:

  Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
  just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
 
  http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
 
  If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to
  turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
  assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
  samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
  download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
  create what you want.
 
  Michael
 
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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 10:53 PM:


  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 

  Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like a
 standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies pratice) I
 think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would be a
 nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if I
 like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits better
 for some kind of system sound..

  cu, Georg



And if we use/create some sort of instrumental only track, clearly
published under Creative Commons, to use for the phone (startup,
shutdown, advertisment, ..)


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Ben Burdette
How about got my moko working.  Then you could have a red flannel bag 
for your 'moko hand'.  Moko is HD (hoodoo) enabled!


http://www.luckymojo.com/mojo.html



ramsesoriginal wrote:

Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
upon two simple questions:
1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People, ...)
2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
or for branding, and so on.

Has anyone got some input?

  



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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Robin Paulson
2008/4/22 Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Will it ship with powerpack adaptors for all countries?
  I just noticed there's no adaptor for Australia/New Zealand in the pic.
  Not that it would be a problem, most of us have an adaptor lying around
 somewhere.

i'm not sure of the exact situation, and this may vary in some
countries, but don't some places have laws that an item sold there (or
shipped to there?) must include a correct plug?

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Robin Paulson
2008/4/22 Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  Free your phone, and the mind will follow

cool, lyrics by en vogue/george clinton

'free your mind, don't be so shallow
free your mind, and the rest will follow'

well, nearly...

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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ben Wilson

Good point

Robin Paulson wrote:

2008/4/22 Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  

Will it ship with powerpack adaptors for all countries?
 I just noticed there's no adaptor for Australia/New Zealand in the pic.
 Not that it would be a problem, most of us have an adaptor lying around
somewhere.



i'm not sure of the exact situation, and this may vary in some
countries, but don't some places have laws that an item sold there (or
shipped to there?) must include a correct plug?

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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
Wow. .cool.. i not only (finally) discovered what mojo means, but i
also liek the idea :D

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Ben Burdette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How about got my moko working.  Then you could have a red flannel bag for
 your 'moko hand'.  Moko is HD (hoodoo) enabled!

  http://www.luckymojo.com/mojo.html




  ramsesoriginal wrote:

  Following Michaels request for a homepage for the photos, I stumbled
  upon two simple questions:
  1) Do we have soem sort of motto (like Hello Moto, Connecting People,
 ...)
  2) Is there an official Openmoko sound set? Systems sounds, but maybe
  even a specific song or something? This could also be useful for ads,
  or for branding, and so on.
 
  Has anyone got some input?
 
 
 



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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Georg Michelitsch

ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 11:48 PM:



 Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like a
standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies pratice) I
think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would be a
nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if I
like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits better
for some kind of system sound..

 cu, Georg





And if we use/create some sort of instrumental only track, clearly
published under Creative Commons, to use for the phone (startup,
shutdown, advertisment, ..)


  


Of course :) I'm just kind of a lazy musician, has been some time that 
I've not touched my instruments ;)


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ramsesoriginal wrote on 04/21/2008 11:48 PM:


 
 
Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like
 a
   standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies
 pratice) I
   think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would
 be a
   nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if
 I
   like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits
 better
   for some kind of system sound..
  
cu, Georg
  
  
  
  
 
  And if we use/create some sort of instrumental only track, clearly
  published under Creative Commons, to use for the phone (startup,
  shutdown, advertisment, ..)
 
 
 
 

  Of course :) I'm just kind of a lazy musician, has been some time that I've
 not touched my instruments ;)


Sadly, this holds true also for me: good thing today we have the
possibility to do postprocessing :D
-- 
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Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread Daniel Willmann
Hello,

I'm happy to announce the final Google Summer of Code slot allocation
for Openmoko. 10 projects will be funded this year which is quite an
improvement over the 3 we had in 2007. Lets make it rock. :-)

So here are the projects that we will take on during this years Summer
of Code:

OpenMoko Mail
Student: Vladimir Mihaylov
Mentor: Thomas Wood

Flexible answering machine
Student: Frederik Sdun
Mentor: Thomas Wood

IM/VoIP using telepathy
Student: Deniz Koçak
Mentor: Robert McQueen

Accelerometer Gestures
Student: Paul-Valentin Borza
Mentor: Daniel Willmann

Implementation of a OpenMoko remote controller for GNU/Linux
Student: Valério Domingos Valério
Mentor: Daniel Willmann

speech recognition facility in open moko
Student: Saurabh Gupta
Mentor: Luis G. Lira

A targeted SELinux Policy For OpenMoko
Student: Willis Vandevanter
Mentor: Stefan Schmidt

SMS middleware
Student: Patryk Szymczak
Mentor: Michael Lauer

odeviced: Open Device Daemon for FreeRunner/Neo1973 complying with
freesmartphone.org specs
Student: Sudharshan S
Mentor: Michael Lauer

PIM storage for the mobile world
Student: Sören Apel
Mentor: m. dietrich

Please make the students feel welcome in our community and help them
with any questions they have.

If you applied this year but didn't get accepted don't despair. Openmoko
welcomes your contribution, whether made through GSoC or not and
through the Community member of the month contest you can even win a
t-shirt. It's all about the t-shirts. :-)
Finally, if there will be a Google Summer of Code next year we will try
to get accepted as mentoring organization again.

All students are free to choose the way they want to handle the
development, if you have no strong preference we would recommend
creating a project at projects.openmoko.org. However, we do require
that every project has a website of some sorts with current status
information (this can be the projects.om.org Site, it could be a
special category in your blog, it might even be a plaintext file edited
in $EDITOR and synced to a webserver). Important is that there's some
place where interested people can go to and get an overview over your
project. General development discussion should take place on a public
mailing list, preferably [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can
sign up for mailing lists at http://lists.openmoko.org/
Also the IRC room #openmoko-gsoc on Freenode is available for mentors
and students to discuss their project. This room is of course open to
the general public.

A good place to start looking for documentation is the Openmoko wiki at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/

An overview page with links to the individual projects pages will be
available at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Current_projects once
everything is set up.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann


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Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread Daniel Willmann
Hello,

I'm happy to announce the final Google Summer of Code slot allocation
for Openmoko. 10 projects will be funded this year which is quite an
improvement over the 3 we had in 2007. Lets make it rock. :-)

So here are the projects that we will take on during this years Summer
of Code:

OpenMoko Mail
Student: Vladimir Mihaylov
Mentor: Thomas Wood

Flexible answering machine
Student: Frederik Sdun
Mentor: Thomas Wood

IM/VoIP using telepathy
Student: Deniz Koçak
Mentor: Robert McQueen

Accelerometer Gestures
Student: Paul-Valentin Borza
Mentor: Daniel Willmann

Implementation of a OpenMoko remote controller for GNU/Linux
Student: Valério Domingos Valério
Mentor: Daniel Willmann

speech recognition facility in open moko
Student: Saurabh Gupta
Mentor: Luis G. Lira

A targeted SELinux Policy For OpenMoko
Student: Willis Vandevanter
Mentor: Stefan Schmidt

SMS middleware
Student: Patryk Szymczak
Mentor: Michael Lauer

odeviced: Open Device Daemon for FreeRunner/Neo1973 complying with
freesmartphone.org specs
Student: Sudharshan S
Mentor: Michael Lauer

PIM storage for the mobile world
Student: Sören Apel
Mentor: m. dietrich

Please make the students feel welcome in our community and help them
with any questions they have.

If you applied this year but didn't get accepted don't despair. Openmoko
welcomes your contribution, whether made through GSoC or not and
through the Community member of the month contest you can even win a
t-shirt. It's all about the t-shirts. :-)
Finally, if there will be a Google Summer of Code next year we will try
to get accepted as mentoring organization again.

All students are free to choose the way they want to handle the
development, if you have no strong preference we would recommend
creating a project at projects.openmoko.org. However, we do require
that every project has a website of some sorts with current status
information (this can be the projects.om.org Site, it could be a
special category in your blog, it might even be a plaintext file edited
in $EDITOR and synced to a webserver). Important is that there's some
place where interested people can go to and get an overview over your
project. General development discussion should take place on a public
mailing list, preferably [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can
sign up for mailing lists at http://lists.openmoko.org/
Also the IRC room #openmoko-gsoc on Freenode is available for mentors
and students to discuss their project. This room is of course open to
the general public.

A good place to start looking for documentation is the Openmoko wiki at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/

An overview page with links to the individual projects pages will be
available at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Current_projects once
everything is set up.

Regards,
Daniel Willmann


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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread Steven Le Roux
Really great news !!

Congratulation !

Let's work on !

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:41 AM, Daniel Willmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hello,

 I'm happy to announce the final Google Summer of Code slot allocation
 for Openmoko. 10 projects will be funded this year which is quite an
 improvement over the 3 we had in 2007. Lets make it rock. :-)

 So here are the projects that we will take on during this years Summer
 of Code:

 OpenMoko Mail
 Student: Vladimir Mihaylov
 Mentor: Thomas Wood

 Flexible answering machine
 Student: Frederik Sdun
 Mentor: Thomas Wood

 IM/VoIP using telepathy
 Student: Deniz Koçak
 Mentor: Robert McQueen

 Accelerometer Gestures
 Student: Paul-Valentin Borza
 Mentor: Daniel Willmann

 Implementation of a OpenMoko remote controller for GNU/Linux
 Student: Valério Domingos Valério
 Mentor: Daniel Willmann

 speech recognition facility in open moko
 Student: Saurabh Gupta
 Mentor: Luis G. Lira

 A targeted SELinux Policy For OpenMoko
 Student: Willis Vandevanter
 Mentor: Stefan Schmidt

 SMS middleware
 Student: Patryk Szymczak
 Mentor: Michael Lauer

 odeviced: Open Device Daemon for FreeRunner/Neo1973 complying with
 freesmartphone.org specs
 Student: Sudharshan S
 Mentor: Michael Lauer

 PIM storage for the mobile world
 Student: Sören Apel
 Mentor: m. dietrich

 Please make the students feel welcome in our community and help them
 with any questions they have.

 If you applied this year but didn't get accepted don't despair. Openmoko
 welcomes your contribution, whether made through GSoC or not and
 through the Community member of the month contest you can even win a
 t-shirt. It's all about the t-shirts. :-)
 Finally, if there will be a Google Summer of Code next year we will try
 to get accepted as mentoring organization again.

 All students are free to choose the way they want to handle the
 development, if you have no strong preference we would recommend
 creating a project at projects.openmoko.org. However, we do require
 that every project has a website of some sorts with current status
 information (this can be the projects.om.org Site, it could be a
 special category in your blog, it might even be a plaintext file edited
 in $EDITOR and synced to a webserver). Important is that there's some
 place where interested people can go to and get an overview over your
 project. General development discussion should take place on a public
 mailing list, preferably [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can
 sign up for mailing lists at http://lists.openmoko.org/
 Also the IRC room #openmoko-gsoc on Freenode is available for mentors
 and students to discuss their project. This room is of course open to
 the general public.

 A good place to start looking for documentation is the Openmoko wiki at
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/

 An overview page with links to the individual projects pages will be
 available at
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code_2008#Current_projects once
 everything is set up.

 Regards,
 Daniel Willmann




-- 
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Michele Renda

1 $ = 0.70 euro + tva = 0.84 euro != 4 euro

Jonathan Spooner wrote:
Oh great so in Europe that will equate to another 4 euros.. were 
you dropped on your head as a child?


Jon


Michele Renda wrote:

I agree, I'd like to pay for Freerunner 400$ in place of 399$

I alway liked 0 finishing number more than 9 finishing number.

I vote for 400$! It is a very strange request, I admit :)

Alexey Feldgendler wrote:


The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99, 
respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99 
dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one 
dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is 
often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the 
price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that 
a hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the 
debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness 
and transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there 
end with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: “We're 
honest with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do”.


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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread ian douglas

Daniel Willmann wrote:

IM/VoIP using telepathy



I'm hoping you meant telephony? Or is Google seriously funding some sort 
of telekenesis projects? ;o)


-id

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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread Joseph Jon Booker
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:51:17 -0700
ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Daniel Willmann wrote:
  IM/VoIP using telepathy
 
 
 I'm hoping you meant telephony? Or is Google seriously funding some
 sort of telekenesis projects? ;o)
 
 -id
 
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http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/

It seems flexible enough to support telekinesis, is there a standard RFC
for VoEP (Voice over ESP)?

-- 
Joseph Booker


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Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like a
 standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies pratice) I
 think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would be a
 nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if I
 like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits better
 for some kind of system sound..

I personally think a human voice is a bad choice. There's NO point in
making a universal sound if it won't be universally understood.
Openmoko's uses may well extend beyond those we think of right now
which may extend into areas that wouldn't recognize (or worse, would
find offensive) a human voice. I recall someone once raising the
question of Would a south east asian rice farmer understand the
meaning of the house icon, given that his house looks nothing like
it?


  cu, Georg




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Re: Welcome to Openmoko GSoC

2008-04-21 Thread ian douglas

Ah, thanks for the correction.

Joseph Jon Booker wrote:

IM/VoIP using telepathy


http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/



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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Charles Edward Pax
We always see unboxing videos for new products. How about making a boxing
video for the Freerunner  before it's released?

-Charles
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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Paul Jimenez

Related to making openmoko gear - is there vector art of the logo
somewhere? I checked the wiki and couldn't find a reference, and checked
downloads.openmoko.com and again came up empty. Inquiring minds want to
know! Also, if it is published, we'd probably want some kind of license
to use it that we could show to the printer/manufacturer we wanted to use... 

My personal idea was to talk to the guys at skoobadesign(.com)
and see what kind of surchage there'd be to get a moko-branded small
RAPS to use as a pouch since the moko's not going to ship with one.

What's Openmoko's stance on the community using thier logo, maybe even
creating Openmoko branded items?

  --pj


On Monday, Apr 21, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes:


Daniel Barkalow wrote:
 On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
 
 The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos
 done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have
 greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to
 create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and
 then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things.

 Now, I realize that people want accessories.  So As this launch gets going
 I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs 

 Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business
 around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build
 your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories.  
 
 No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the 
 box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone, 
 but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for 
 their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration 
 options.


It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for 
an Openmoko pouch.

Michael

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Re: Steve on V5 versus v6

2008-04-21 Thread Alex Maxious Sadleir
There's vector (EPS format?) logos and the conditions for using them
on the wiki; http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Trademark_Policy

Note that for most community purposes (creating software or community
webpages) the artwork is free to use but explicit permission is
required for several cases including Any commercial use and Use for
merchandising purposes, e.g. on t-shirts and the like..

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Paul Jimenez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Related to making openmoko gear - is there vector art of the logo
  somewhere? I checked the wiki and couldn't find a reference, and checked
  downloads.openmoko.com and again came up empty. Inquiring minds want to
  know! Also, if it is published, we'd probably want some kind of license
  to use it that we could show to the printer/manufacturer we wanted to use...

  My personal idea was to talk to the guys at skoobadesign(.com)
  and see what kind of surchage there'd be to get a moko-branded small
  RAPS to use as a pouch since the moko's not going to ship with one.

  What's Openmoko's stance on the community using thier logo, maybe even
  creating Openmoko branded items?

   --pj




  On Monday, Apr 21, 2008, Michael Shiloh writes:
  
  
  Daniel Barkalow wrote:
   On Sun, 20 Apr 2008, steve wrote:
  
   The pouch, alas, did not fit into the box. When Michael gets his photos
   done, or my spawn get their video done, then you will see that we have
   greatly reduced the size of the box. Partly for aesthetics, and partly to
   create a product where I could pack 10 phones boxes in a bigger box, and
   then ship that bigger box efficiently. So, I had to optimize some things.
  
   Now, I realize that people want accessories.  So As this launch gets 
 going
   I'll put together some ideas, for accessory packs
  
   Fundamentally, I would rather that some community member build a business
   around this. Our marketing materials are open source. So, you can build
   your own pouches, use our brand, and make a business from accessories.
  
   No, no, you should include a sewing pattern for the official pouch in the
   box. It would be neat to have an official Openmoko pouch for your phone,
   but it would be even better if that pouch was handmade by each owner for
   their own phone. Especially if the instructions have configuration
   options.
  
  
  It's all open, dude. I invite any of you to create a sewing pattern for
  an Openmoko pouch.
  
  Michael
  
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Re: Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Jeremy List
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Robin Paulson wrote:
 2008/4/22 Ben Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Will it ship with powerpack adaptors for all countries?
  I just noticed there's no adaptor for Australia/New Zealand in the pic.
  Not that it would be a problem, most of us have an adaptor lying around
 somewhere.
 
 i'm not sure of the exact situation, and this may vary in some
 countries, but don't some places have laws that an item sold there (or
 shipped to there?) must include a correct plug?
 
 
I would be very surprised if there was any law in New Zealand against
importing things with foreign power plugs as a few years ago I bought a
palm treo which required an adaptor.
Adaptors for devices which have the wrong shape of plug but don't mind
240V AC @ 50Hz are much cheaper and more efficient than ones which
actually convert the electricity to whatever voltage is standard in the
U.S. When I finally get a freerunner, would I fry the charger and/or the
phone by using that kind of power supply?
 Jeremy
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Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-21 Thread Jeremy List
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

 The problem with small handheld devices is that most of the time it's
 cheaper to put everything into the device than to create variants.
 Modularity causes problems with design and space and is also
 expensive.
 I also still need a GSM modem and will for a few years. Sure, I'd like
 to use WLAN, Bluetooth and UMTS whenever possible but these networks
 don't cover the whole country / most of the planet. When there is no
 other network, I need GSM to get onto the internet, even if it's slow.
 
 Ortwin

Exactly: There are only two places where there's a WLAN I can actually
access and I can easily just use a computer in both those places.
 Without GSM/GPRS, for me the neo would become a very expensive alarm
clock and little else.
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