Re: Recognition of Handwriting
God points of clarification, I should have mentioned that too. Heikki Soerum. Den Thu, 1 May 2008 08:23:26 +0800 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:48:28 +0200 Heikki Sørum [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: 5. can't use it with a finger 6. the gta01 or 02don't come with a stylus you can dock in the phone, so you always have a big separate pen (the one we ship) or need to have some other pointy implement with you to serve as a stylus. I'm currently using cellwriter on my two tablet PC's and might have some useful input regarding cellwriter. I agree that cellwriter might be a promising program on openmoko but there are certain quirks that might need looking into. 1. cellwriter need extensive training to recognize handwriting reliable. (About 20 samples pr. character. ) 2. I've never managed to get cellwriter to play nice with gtk(or QT based) docking applications. 3. It's build-in docking feature always expand the input area to cover the whole bottom or top of the screen. 4. autocomplete in firefox and cellwriter's OSD keyboard doesn't mix because firefox autocomplete tend to steal the focus. (E.g. every character has to be tapped twice.) Of course, this is a firefox specific problem, but it's a gui problem when the character recognition software is a free floating application rather than a true nested OSD keyboard/character recognition program. In my opinion microsoft's tablet edition on-screen keyboard has a smarter focus handling. Of course, microsoft software has it's fair share of quirks.. *snicker* What I would die for was some sort of wordlist backend for cellwriter in addition to it's character recognition. Heikki Soerum. Den Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:55:58 +0200 Sebastian Billaudelle [EMAIL PROTECTED] skrev: Hi there! While surfing around I found an very nice app called CellWriter (http://risujin.org/cellwriter/). I tried it out using my mouse... I think it's much better then the Windows Mobile stuff! I think it should be no problem to get it fitting to our needs... cheers Sebastian Please do not send me any Microsoft Office documents - I won't accept them! See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for more information! Sorry! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mobile gps gaming
Was this organized by the group area code? M ian douglas wrote: Robin Paulson wrote: i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on mobile phones: There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones... teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press. I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: youtube freerunner vid is up
When you get your Rreerunner, you are welcome to hand it over to your kids/parents/dog/whatever to do the review for you :-) Just be sure to post the video Michael Steven ** wrote: If you've been reading steve's emails ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), he said he handed a Freerunner over to his sons to test out. It's all about who you know, or are related to! ;-) -Steven On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, why did these guys get early copies of a freerunner to review, when they even admitted to not doing this before, and didn't seem to do any research on the product they are reviewing? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community Update???
Justyn Butler wrote: 2008/4/29 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyway I do prefer they're working on shipping the Frerunners to us, than on writing here... Michael Shiloh is the community manager - he keeps the community updated so the devs don't have to take time off from developing to do it. Unfortunately I still depend on the devs telling me what they are up to, which I find is pretty hard these days, as they are all so busy. Steve has a slightly easier time getting the info from the factory guys, which is why he has been doing the updates lately. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: youtube freerunner vid is up
I was going to challenge my daughter (age 13) and her friends to improve upon the video done by your boys, but now I'm not so sure. At least she can't drive to Weird Stuff yet.. Michael steve wrote: Well it was fun thing. I didn’t tell them what to do. After a few Days I bugged them about where is the video? Some finger pointing back and forth. So I said, don’t fix the blame, fix the problem. So they went out to buy a new camera on their own dime. They also bought a old G3 for 50 bucks. For some strange reason, they want one system for WOW and another for Diablo. I just shook my head when they brought this thing home from Weird Stuff in silicon valley. You guys went to buy a camera and you come back with a G3! arrg. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ramsesoriginal Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:43 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: youtube freerunner vid is up I see a splendid career at techcrunch/engaged/gizmodo for you kids, Steve :D and for the screen, in the related videos there is a video from trolltech where they show of a freerunner and you see the screen. On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was very sure there would be blood. :D but I think we could try Pace and phone as slogan for the Freerunner. Cheers! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - steve escribió: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U05kZfURPig hope you enjoy it ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Recognition of Handwriting
On Wednesday 30 April 2008 19:55, Sebastian Billaudelle wrote: Hi there! While surfing around I found an very nice app called CellWriter (http://risujin.org/cellwriter/). I tried it out using my mouse... I think it's much better then the Windows Mobile stuff! I think it should be no problem to get it fitting to our needs... what's wrong with matchbox stroke? -- Andy / ScaredyCat ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)
Its funny Lowell, I wanted to ask you this in private, but what the hack. While I am working on getting this current product out the door if you could organize the community effort that would be a great help to me, that way I don't get distracted from the grunt work of pushing boxes out the door. Personally, I've worked in marketing driven companies and engineering driven companies. There are strengths and weakness in both. If the marketing side has no idea about forthcoming technology, if they just reflect the customer to engineering, then you will be a follower, not a leader. If you ask customers what they want, more often then not they tell you what they have. They don't know what they are missing. On the other hand if the engineering side has no idea of the customer, then you can get ( I've got the scars to prove it) a product that has great technology that nobody cares about, or products ahead of their time. So it takes a balance. Typically what I would do is TWO lists. A technology PUSH list, created by engineering and then a marketing PULL list created by marketing. That way marketing gets exposed to technologies they may not know about and engineering gets exposed to customer needs they may have overlooked. Then the negotiation starts. This is a discussion about schedule cost and ROI. So out of your list of Push and pull you might conceptualize a pure pull product, and you might conceptualize a pure push product, do schedule costs and ROI. Then look at more balanced concepts in between. The way we do it at Openmoko is that Wolfgang represents the engineering voice, I am the marketing voice. Sean listens to our inputs and decides. I don't think we have had a disagreement between the three of us that lasted more than 1 email exchange. So If you want to represent the community voice to me, then I bring that voice forward into the board room. Is that workable? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 1:12 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) Hi Matt.. I think I get a sense of where you are coming from. As an engineer, one thinks oh no, here comes these marketing people with their unrealistic requirements again. Been there. Even been on the giving end. :( On the flip side, as a marketer one sometimes thinks, Man, will these guys ever get a clue, no one wants that feature set. In a *perfect* world, engineers and marketers would be equal partners.. I don't think I've actually seen this work perfectly yet but I know the relationship I built with the engineering at Unisys was hard earned and it was built on trust (both ways.) It was a pretty good relationship and took me a few years to build. You have to treat the other side as part of the team, not the enemy as we have instincts to do. I've done it, I know. Here's how I see the roles working in an open environment... The marketing team creates a list of features that the product needs to have. There is a lot that goes into this I want to keep it simple for now. They sit down with the engineering team and create a list of agreed upon features (even suggested features engineering brings to the table) that go into the next product, prioritized of course. That list of features is created based on priority and feasibility of hitting the target completion date (agreed upon by everyone.. sort of.) Engineering then makes the magic happen... when a feature or requirement turns out it can't be met (through bug or other technical issue) both teams work out either a revised feature list or target date. Depends on how important that feature is. I've been in situations where I was told 5 days before the target date oh by the way, we dumped that must have feature x. While the engineering team is building the marketing team is working out the future of the next product and creating the collateral and campaign for the product in development. All publicly of course, with the aid of anyone (including the techie folks) that wants to help. I have a lot of ideas. I was thinking the bug database would be a good place to keep feature suggestions/submissions... but I couldn't find a bug database in the wiki. I must be blind. From that point, it's a big cycle. Once you get it going... it's easy to keep on it. The hard part is building the collaborative tools/process to do all this in. I think as an after thought, maybe we don't want to split into teams, just create a logical process... Not sure how that would work, though. People have definite skills in one are or the other. Anyways, that's my hair brained idea... I guess I should talk this out with Steve before I go too much further down this road. Thanks for the feedback. I think I understand your perspective now. Lowell PS - regarding Open Marketing, I'm a fan. I've been attempting to load the framework on my
Re: Our new Main page of wiki
Hi, On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plus thinking about the page beeing viewed mostly from users with Linux on their machines (web server stats anyone?). So it should be reviewed with linux or at least with an alternative browser. Ideally, it should be reviewed on as many platforms as possible (by platform in this context I refer to a specific browser on a specific device / operating system), in addition to the usual ones (well-known browsers on Linux / *BSD / windows) things like Opera mini[1] on mobile devices, the browser on Neo, and so on should also be used to view the web pages. I guess the community must help with this. Other than that, web pages should be designed to work the way they were intended to; automatically adaptable to any web browser, no matter what size or format it might be. Just my 2 eurocents. References: 1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_mini -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Our new Main page of wiki
Fwiw, I agree with most community reviews that the table contrast is a bit too high now. :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks like we are going to have to combine some groups. I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't get us to 10, but its closer. Anythoughts? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
You could add in Iowa. I think there's two interested from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks like we are going to have to combine some groups. I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't get us to 10, but its closer. Anythoughts? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mobile gps gaming
Michael Shiloh wrote: Was this organized by the group area code? http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2004/05/63400 I was mistaken, I thought it had been run with GPS phones, but it was back in 2004 (I thought it was much more recent) and they couldn't use GPS due to the tall buildings in Manhattan. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Excellent. I think that would get us up to 9. If everyone is interested in joining together. I would like to get this figured out so we are ready when the neo is released! -Geoff On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could add in Iowa. I think there's two interested from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks like we are going to have to combine some groups. I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't get us to 10, but its closer. Anythoughts? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Stylus Recommendation
I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than necessary. I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74 It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it everywhere. While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been a great tool. Regards, Tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
You also might be interested in a stylus that attaches to your fingertip, as opposed to pen style, as discussed previously: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/010165.html Hans On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Tom Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than necessary. I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74 It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it everywhere. While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been a great tool. Regards, Tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
On Thu, 01 May 2008 17:07:52 +0200, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You also might be interested in a stylus that attaches to your fingertip, as opposed to pen style, as discussed previously: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/010165.html It's called “fingernail”. -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
Something that might work would be a guitar finger pick. Here's a link to a selection of those: http://www.suncreekmusic.com/index.php/cPath/26_34 The plastic ones would be the way to go. The only thing is its kind of wide like a fingernail, not a precise stylus point. but a little work with a dremel or the like would fix that... Hans L wrote: You also might be interested in a stylus that attaches to your fingertip, as opposed to pen style, as discussed previously: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-September/010165.html Hans ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Stylus Recommendation
If a stylus is necessary, I want one like the touchpen that comes with the Cowon D2 (http://www.cowonglobal.com/product_wide/product_D2_feature.php) I just can't find the stylus for sale anywhere. -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Tom Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like to have both a pen and stylus handy but hate carrying more than necessary. I found a very small (10cm, closed) combo from Fisher http://www.spacepen.com/Public/Products/BulletPen/Stylus/index.cfm?productID=74 It doesn't take up much space in my pocket, so I can carry it everywhere. While I look forward to the multi-function stylus that will come with my Freerunner (my cat loves laser pointers), this has been a great tool. Regards, Tom ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Request for stable, automated build process
I sent this before to openmoko-devel and was greeted with a deafening silence, so I'm resending to a broader audience. As evidenced by a recent post to openmoko-devel by saurabh gupta, one of the GSoC selectees, this really is a problem. The longer it's put off, the more potential benefits (in the form of community contributors who give up rather than improve OM) are lost. I really think OM is shortchanging themselves with the current build process. As far as I can tell: * there is no way to run a build that has a high probability of working all the way through * there is no way to identify the latest code that builds together * there is no automated build process, nor even a stable script one can follow to do a complete build from source on one's local machine * it looks to me as if the code lives in at least three different kinds of repositories: svn, GIT, and mtn * I'm sure that there is a way to identify the code that went into a particular snapshot found on the web, but I don't know what it is * there is no way to identify which tasks definitely have someone reliable working on them, which are open issues need attention they're not getting, and which have some casual developer looking at them I have done several very minor programs for my neo, which I would have much preferred to integrate into the real build process. However, when I've tried the Mokomakefile process, it will run for hours and then die in some obscure way. I spent a few hours over the course of several days debugging that process on my Ubuntu machine at home, before I realized there were version issues with the assembler that I didn't see any way to work around. I have a debian installation that I run some web services on, and a build there went farther, but finally failed as well. I see consistent complaints from people who do have known good build environments that the build is broken for days at a time. I just don't have the energy to spend a dozen hours debugging a process that will enable me to spend a few dozen hours doing development. I would think that many other potential contributors fall in the same boat. I think that a few procedures could dramatically increase the development community's involvement in OM, resulting in faster bugfixes, more features added sooner, and greater visibility into the project status: *Automated build process* The build process should be a no brainer. The process should document the operating systems versions supported, and the tools versions needed. If I run on one of those OSes, I should be able to download one script and kick it off, and come back a day later and have a full build of the latest code that compiles. I can then update the configuration to get the latest code in specific areas if I want to. To ensure that *anyone* who is a competent developer can run the build script, ideally there would be a chroot filesystem tarball to fall back on or a VM image for when you don't have the appropriate OS version available, or otherwise have conflicts between the OM build process and other things you may need on your system. There should also be a test harness for developers to easily insert tests for their code, and for which every bug (except those that require hardware to test) must have a test inserted for the bug to be considered fixed. The test harness should likewise be runnable trivially, with one simple command (e.g. 'make test') *Continuous integration* (CI) Someone needs to set up a server that on a periodic basis (one or more times per day) pulls the latest build process script, labels the code with something like CI_CANDIDATE, configures the build script for that label and runs it. If that process fails at any point, some set of interested parties should receive an email (ideally, also the people who checked in changes since the last working build would be emailed). If the process succeeds, then the code labeled CI_CANDIDATE would be relabeled something like GOOD_BUILD_2008_04_23 and the CI_CANDIDATE label removed. Further, the test harness should be run, and if it passes a label like TESTS_PASS_2008_04_23 should be added. *Task tracking* Maybe this is supposed to happen in bugzilla now, but it seems to me that we need the kind of bug tracking I was discussing above - a full list of tasks, priority (something as simple as High, Medium, Low would work fine), and a way to see if it is *really* being worked or not. Having a project manager who is an OM employee for every task would be helpful, since we could then expect to get an answer if we email a query about the status. *Documentation* If the above were implemented, that documentation could be as simple as telling people: * the script location and how to configure what labels are used for each subsystem * the location to download the VM or chroot tarball if necessary * the meaning of
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:01 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I sent this before to openmoko-devel and was greeted with a deafening silence, so I'm resending to a broader audience. As evidenced by a recent post to openmoko-devel by saurabh gupta, one of the GSoC selectees, this really is a problem. The longer it's put off, the more potential benefits (in the form of community contributors who give up rather than improve OM) are lost. OpenMoko (the software stack) is constantly changing and being updated. It is still in the very early stages of development and does not have a definite design specification or vision yet. I think until there are more concrete plans for the software strategy, you cannot expect a stable platform. I'm not disagreeing with you here, just pointing out why these problems arise. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:01 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I sent this before to openmoko-devel and was greeted with a deafening silence, so I'm resending to a broader audience. As evidenced by a recent post to openmoko-devel by saurabh gupta, one of the GSoC selectees, this really is a problem. The longer it's put off, the more potential benefits (in the form of community contributors who give up rather than improve OM) are lost. OpenMoko (the software stack) is constantly changing and being updated. It is still in the very early stages of development and does not have a definite design specification or vision yet. I think until there are more concrete plans for the software strategy, you cannot expect a stable platform. I'm not disagreeing with you here, just pointing out why these problems arise. Regards, Thomas I understand that your answer may well be the reason things are as they are, but I disagree strongly with the sentiment. To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. I've been several places where they did almost everything wrong in terms of software development, but if they have a good continuous integration server and automated test harness, and a culture of quick response to breaking the build, it can work anyway. I've also been on several projects where the developers were technically brilliant and wrote great code, but it turned into an unmaintainable mess because we couldn't forsee the consequences in hundreds of thousands of lines of code when we make a seemingly innocuous change to a low level subsystem. Bobby ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manage it) SOON
From: Bobby Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ~~~ To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. ~~~ OpenMoko powers that be: PLEASE Hire someone to create and maintain the build process NOW. It will increase productivity of your developers as well as the community developer team. The investment of one additional FTE will help enormously. be well -- Ron K. Jeffries Twitter @RonKJeffries mobile 805 567 4670 http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 11:29 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote: I understand that your answer may well be the reason things are as they are, but I disagree strongly with the sentiment. To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. Well, there is buildhost.openmoko.org which builds images nightly. I've been asking for the toolchain to be fixed and updated and I believe Julian has this on his TODO list. Regards, Thomas -- OpenedHand Ltd. Unit R Homesdale Business Center / 216-218 Homesdale Road / Bromley / BR1 2QZ / UK Tel: +44 (0)20 8819 6559 Expert Open Source For Consumer Devices - http://o-hand.com/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there is buildhost.openmoko.org which builds images nightly. I've been asking for the toolchain to be fixed and updated and I believe Julian has this on his TODO list. Regards, Thomas Thanks for pointing that out. Does it apply a label to builds that succeed? Is there documentation of what this hypothetical label might be, and also documentation of the build process that buildhost.openmoko.org uses? (Hrm, reading over that, it looks like I'm trying to be sarcastic with the thanks. I'm definitely not! The thanks, and the questions, are real, not rhetorical.) -- If it doesn't make you smile, you're doing something wrong. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Bobby Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there is buildhost.openmoko.org which builds images nightly. I've been asking for the toolchain to be fixed and updated and I believe Julian has this on his TODO list. Regards, Thomas Thanks for pointing that out. Does it apply a label to builds that succeed? Is there documentation of what this hypothetical label might be, and also documentation of the build process that buildhost.openmoko.org uses? (Hrm, reading over that, it looks like I'm trying to be sarcastic with the thanks. I'm definitely not! The thanks, and the questions, are real, not rhetorical.) I should point out that if I knew the right way to run a build (I think there are three possible ways) and could actually get a build to go through at least once in a while, I would volunteer a server and the effort to set up continuous integration. My time is pretty restricted, so it might take me a fairly long time to get it all done, but I am willing to do the work if I can get answers to the basic questions. Bobby -- If it doesn't make you smile, you're doing something wrong. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Should we create a midwest group or something? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Here is one more from Fort Worth, TX to get your 10 midwest people. On Thu, 1 May 2008 10:32:06 -0400 Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent. I think that would get us up to 9. If everyone is interested in joining together. I would like to get this figured out so we are ready when the neo is released! -Geoff On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could add in Iowa. I think there's two interested from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks like we are going to have to combine some groups. I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't get us to 10, but its closer. Anythoughts? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting -- Bryan DeLuca [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
We could use this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we create a midwest group or something? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Our new Main page of wiki
It's not just the titles that are awkward, all the text sounds kind of awkward. Brenda, don't be offended at this, but your first language is not English is it? Perhaps you should leave the content of the consumer-facing pages (at least, the ones that are in english) to someone who has English intuition. I know, Openmoko is supposed to be about Openness, but this is a little ridiculous. On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Brenda Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the design environment I used. Attached file is the the look of main page design. My resolution is 1024*768 Under Windows XP IE 6.0, Mac salaries will look like the attached file.(1024*768 windows ) Under Linux Firefox 2.0.0.13/Mac Firefox 3.1, the title will turn to black. (My setting is use the default color) The wiki skin I used is Openmoko (default). Brenda Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 4/18/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Too big? Which resolution do you use? 300x200? Ok, with 1920x1200 many things can be too small (specially flash videos and fixed sized hps) but I think this is also in an usual resolution too small.The solution to make it bigger at my browser is not the right way i think. Many people don't have good eyes and they should also can read the menu. This is a compromise between too big and including people which use too high resolution. If you have this big resolution, and you don't have any problems on other web pages, you don't have a problem here, right? Adjusting the font size is easy (ctrl-+), except if you use IE (you have to go on View - Text size - Largest if you use IE). Some people use special glasses when they use the computer... you cannot expect this wiki to use 24pt text. People like to see more than just a few words at a time. I want to see the whole page without horizontal scrolling and the whole index table without vertical scrolling. I think I am not the only one. I do not have larger resolution that 800x600 here (very little screen), and really hate too large fonts. That is just my opinion. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Yes that is exactly the group page I was talking about. I have added a Midwest section just above the Indiana / Kentucky section. If everyone can move their own name to it from their respective sections so we can see where we're at. Thanks everyone! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could use this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we create a midwest group or something? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Our new Main page of wiki
Uhhhmm, yes that was very offensive (I can't speak for Brenda) but definitely offensive... But only between the It's not just the titles that are awkward and the a little ridiculous So I wouldn't take it personally. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not just the titles that are awkward, all the text sounds kind of awkward. Brenda, don't be offended at this, but your first language is not English is it? Perhaps you should leave the content of the consumer-facing pages (at least, the ones that are in english) to someone who has English intuition. I know, Openmoko is supposed to be about Openness, but this is a little ridiculous. On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Brenda Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the design environment I used. Attached file is the the look of main page design. My resolution is 1024*768 Under Windows XP IE 6.0, Mac salaries will look like the attached file.(1024*768 windows ) Under Linux Firefox 2.0.0.13/Mac Firefox 3.1, the title will turn to black. (My setting is use the default color) The wiki skin I used is Openmoko (default). Brenda Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote: On 4/18/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Too big? Which resolution do you use? 300x200? Ok, with 1920x1200 many things can be too small (specially flash videos and fixed sized hps) but I think this is also in an usual resolution too small.The solution to make it bigger at my browser is not the right way i think. Many people don't have good eyes and they should also can read the menu. This is a compromise between too big and including people which use too high resolution. If you have this big resolution, and you don't have any problems on other web pages, you don't have a problem here, right? Adjusting the font size is easy (ctrl-+), except if you use IE (you have to go on View - Text size - Largest if you use IE). Some people use special glasses when they use the computer... you cannot expect this wiki to use 24pt text. People like to see more than just a few words at a time. I want to see the whole page without horizontal scrolling and the whole index table without vertical scrolling. I think I am not the only one. I do not have larger resolution that 800x600 here (very little screen), and really hate too large fonts. That is just my opinion. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manageit) SOON
Or somebody could set up a build server at home that automatically updates a wiki status.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron K. Jeffries Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 12:46 PM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manageit) SOON From: Bobby Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ~~~ To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. ~~~ OpenMoko powers that be: PLEASE Hire someone to create and maintain the build process NOW. It will increase productivity of your developers as well as the community developer team. The investment of one additional FTE will help enormously. be well -- Ron K. Jeffries Twitter @RonKJeffries mobile 805 567 4670 http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Our new Main page of wiki
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not just the titles that are awkward, all the text sounds kind of awkward. Brenda, don't be offended at this, but your first language is not English is it? Perhaps you should leave the content of the consumer-facing pages (at least, the ones that are in english) to someone who has English intuition. I know, Openmoko is supposed to be about Openness, but this is a little ridiculous. Well, it sounds as if English is your first language, why not give renaming and editing a shot? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manageit) SOON
Or somebody could set up a build server at home that automatically updates a wiki status.. I have quite powerfull server at my home (Phenom 9600, 4 gigs of ram, Debian, *lots* of free space) that is idling most of the time. So, if somebody would help me to setup build environement (or at least instruct how to integrate it to existing ifrastructure), than I could do it. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
Like I mentioned before, I actually have a group of 4 here at the University of Kentucky that want to buy. And I believe that Donnie Jones said that he also was at this University and was interested. That makes 5 in Lexington, Ky. Sorry they are not all on the list, I will try to get them to put their names on there. (Dan Staley and John Sterling are the 2 names currently on there from my group) But anyway, if 5 more people from around the Kentucky area want to join up, we wouldn't have to spread out all across the midwest... -Dan Staley On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:52 -0400, Geoff Ruscoe wrote: Yes that is exactly the group page I was talking about. I have added a Midwest section just above the Indiana / Kentucky section. If everyone can move their own name to it from their respective sections so we can see where we're at. Thanks everyone! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Steven ** montgoss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could use this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we create a midwest group or something? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Invest in automated build system (and one extra person to manage it) SOON
Ron K. Jeffries 提到: From: Bobby Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ~~~ To my mind, the first step after you have an early prototype of a system that works is to set up a continuous integration server that automatically builds, runs automated tests, and labels appropriately. Without that, any work you do is shooting in the dark. This is (of course) particularly true for a distributed project, where you can't just yell over the wall to someone that they broke the build. ~~~ OpenMoko powers that be: PLEASE Hire someone to create and maintain the build process NOW. It will increase productivity of your developers as well as the community developer team. The investment of one additional FTE will help enormously. be well Hi, OpenMoko had two full-time person for this. Me and Graeme. There is a building server which build image automatically every day. (http://buildhost.openmoko.org/) Thanks for advice Regards, -Julian signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area
I'm all for a Kentucky Group, but most importantly I want to make sure we all get packages of 10 together. If we can get 10 for Kentucky that's fine, but if we get 8 or 9 then its not :-). However if we can start at least by getting our midwest together and then start splitting off... I'm not sure what the best approach is, I just know that when they go on sale I want to have the 10 pack that I'm on figured out so that we're good to go immediately. So whether that's Kentucky or Mid West or I help organize Mid-West and then switch back to Kentucky -- I don't mid at all. Cheers! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Dan Staley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Like I mentioned before, I actually have a group of 4 here at the University of Kentucky that want to buy. And I believe that Donnie Jones said that he also was at this University and was interested. That makes 5 in Lexington, Ky. Sorry they are not all on the list, I will try to get them to put their names on there. (Dan Staley and John Sterling are the 2 names currently on there from my group) But anyway, if 5 more people from around the Kentucky area want to join up, we wouldn't have to spread out all across the midwest... -Dan Staley On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:52 -0400, Geoff Ruscoe wrote: Yes that is exactly the group page I was talking about. I have added a Midwest section just above the Indiana / Kentucky section. If everyone can move their own name to it from their respective sections so we can see where we're at. Thanks everyone! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Steven ** montgoss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We could use this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales -Steven On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Should we create a midwest group or something? On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati. -Adam ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be used to organize bulk purchases? If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
Or you could just drive to pick up your freerunner, and spend around $300 in gas. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I notice that certain groups in the USA are consolidating for 10-pack purchases. Unfortunately, some of the regions being covered are bigger than some entire nations in Europe. While I can't be sure this is the case, I can't help but think that joining in a regional 10-pack ONLY works if it costs LESS to ship or pick-up your device. Are there any size or weight dimensions known about the Freerunner packages? How much will the 10-pack weigh? How much will a single using weight? Assuming you found 10 people to each chip in for a 10 pack you'd get a Freerunner for $369 USD and save $30 USD. This assumes that the person getting the Freerunners doesn't charge you to ship it, doesn't charge a handling fee, doesn't screw you out of your money. If shipping is $10 then that drops your savings to $20. If (like I suspect) the Freerunner SINGLE unit costs about $20 USD to ship via UPS your savings really drops to about $10 over buying directly from Openmoko. Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be used to organize bulk purchases? Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
They have provided the specs in a different email stream. But don't forgot you're going to have to pay for the shipping for an individual item from CA if you order a single. And there are extras when you or 10 together. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I notice that certain groups in the USA are consolidating for 10-pack purchases. Unfortunately, some of the regions being covered are bigger than some entire nations in Europe. While I can't be sure this is the case, I can't help but think that joining in a regional 10-pack ONLY works if it costs LESS to ship or pick-up your device. Are there any size or weight dimensions known about the Freerunner packages? How much will the 10-pack weigh? How much will a single using weight? Assuming you found 10 people to each chip in for a 10 pack you'd get a Freerunner for $369 USD and save $30 USD. This assumes that the person getting the Freerunners doesn't charge you to ship it, doesn't charge a handling fee, doesn't screw you out of your money. If shipping is $10 then that drops your savings to $20. If (like I suspect) the Freerunner SINGLE unit costs about $20 USD to ship via UPS your savings really drops to about $10 over buying directly from Openmoko. Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be used to organize bulk purchases? Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
Kevin Dean wrote: Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? From Steve's Email to the Community list April 24 at 12:44pm Pacific time with a subject of 10 PACK UPDATE!!! : Every 10 pack, will come with a box of stuff. 10 pouches and 10 head sets. In an Email around that same week, he had given the weight of about 3 pounds for 10 units, which I remember thinking sounded too light for 10 units (unless he meant 3lbs per phone?), and had given the dimensions of the larger box that would contain all 10 boxes but I don't recall those offhand. He had quoted about $70 to ship a 10-pack to somewhere in Europe and guessed it would be ~$20 to ship within the US. For those of us coordinating a 10-pack order, I guess we'll be responsible too for getting smaller boxes to ship in, plus whatever postage/shipping costs to distribute the smaller boxes to the other people? If Steve's throwing in a pouch and headset for 10-pack orders, then I doubt the larger box will contain 10 pre-packaged ready-to-ship boxes with the pouch/headset already inside? -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
I think this is what you're looking for: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
That's quite useful, thanks! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is what you're looking for: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
Okay, so I just did some number crunching using the information Steve gave and honestly, there's no reason at all the 10-packs need to be broken up by region. It costs $14.40 to ship a 10-pack from Fremont, CA to Frederick, MD where I live (which is pretty close to across the country). $3,690 + $14.40 = 3704.4 delivered or $370.44 per phone before shipping. Here's the beautiful thing. Shipping a single unit (from a 10 pack) back, from Frederick, MD to Fremont, CA is $9.95 by UPS Ground which would bring the total cost per unit to $380.39. Assuming that Openmoko's Fremont shipping place is NOT getting a volume discount then the savings over a single unit would be $28.56 if shipped ACROSS COUNTRY both ways. For fun, I decided what it would cost to ship the unit from home to work (as might be done if buying regionally) in Alexandria, VA. The diffrerence in shipping is barely noticable, that a shipment of less than 60 miles makes it less than $2 cheaper. The point is, I horribly overestimated UPS shipping costs and there's actually quite a bit of savings from going in on a 10-pack. That said, I also discovered that doing regional purchases doesn't save much money over doing national purchases. Guys in groups falling short could easily pick up a small group across the country and cash in on the bulk savings. People picking up their phones (perhaps at a LUG meet) can even score an extra $8 to $10 savings over having it shipped. Neat. :) On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's quite useful, thanks! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is what you're looking for: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Group Sales, distribution model
Hi Dale, I just made a post to that other list and broke it down. It's good news in general, even shipping it there's about a $28 savings. There's even a decent savings if you combine groups anywhere in the country. Mostly coast to cost single unit shipment is about $10 and shipping locally (i.e. about 50 miles) is about $8.50 so shipping from Austin to Dallas isn't MUCH cheaper than shipping Austin to Duluth. Certainly doing that would save you money over not buying a 10-pack. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/016671.html -Kevin On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Dale Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Kevin notes, the marginal savings on a 10-pack is pretty thin. For planning purposes size and weight details are useful, but I thought they were posted previously. Currently there are 4 people showing interest in Austin, TX and 1 in Dallas, TX. This does not include the 2 current Neo1973 owners, who have not expressed a desire to be part of this 10-pack. If we get enough interest for a 10-pack, I am assuming that people will either pick up their device in person, or pay for additional shipping, at their option. If that is not cost effective for them, and it very well may not be in the case of re-shipping, then they should order directly. I will be ordering directly if there is not sufficient local interest. The individual in Dallas may have reason to visit Austin, or other means of obtaining cost-effective transportation for his device. If not, then I'm sure he will also order directly. Clearly details like these must be worked out for each local group, but should be done OFF LIST. I've described my expectations as simply an example of the choices to be made. -- Forwarded message -- From: Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Are there any size or weight dimensions known about the Freerunner packages? How much will the 10-pack weigh? How much will a single using weight? ... Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be used to organize bulk purchases? Thanks. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)
If you are in Frederick, join our Maryland purchase group, I am 30 minutes from you. Kevin Dean wrote: Okay, so I just did some number crunching using the information Steve gave and honestly, there's no reason at all the 10-packs need to be broken up by region. It costs $14.40 to ship a 10-pack from Fremont, CA to Frederick, MD where I live (which is pretty close to across the country). $3,690 + $14.40 = 3704.4 delivered or $370.44 per phone before shipping. Here's the beautiful thing. Shipping a single unit (from a 10 pack) back, from Frederick, MD to Fremont, CA is $9.95 by UPS Ground which would bring the total cost per unit to $380.39. Assuming that Openmoko's Fremont shipping place is NOT getting a volume discount then the savings over a single unit would be $28.56 if shipped ACROSS COUNTRY both ways. For fun, I decided what it would cost to ship the unit from home to work (as might be done if buying regionally) in Alexandria, VA. The diffrerence in shipping is barely noticable, that a shipment of less than 60 miles makes it less than $2 cheaper. The point is, I horribly overestimated UPS shipping costs and there's actually quite a bit of savings from going in on a 10-pack. That said, I also discovered that doing regional purchases doesn't save much money over doing national purchases. Guys in groups falling short could easily pick up a small group across the country and cash in on the bulk savings. People picking up their phones (perhaps at a LUG meet) can even score an extra $8 to $10 savings over having it shipped. Neat. :) On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's quite useful, thanks! On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think this is what you're looking for: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread. On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you could do this. Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to wade through. Thanks! -- Steven Kurylo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Geoff Ruscoe Sigma Visions Computer Consulting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
Bobby Martin wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM, Thomas Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there is buildhost.openmoko.org http://buildhost.openmoko.org which builds images nightly. I've been asking for the toolchain to be fixed and updated and I believe Julian has this on his TODO list. Regards, Thomas Thanks for pointing that out. Does it apply a label to builds that succeed? Is there documentation of what this hypothetical label might be, and also documentation of the build process that buildhost.openmoko.org http://buildhost.openmoko.org uses? (Hrm, reading over that, it looks like I'm trying to be sarcastic with the thanks. I'm definitely not! The thanks, and the questions, are real, not rhetorical.) -- If it doesn't make you smile, you're doing something wrong. i do not really get what you mean by labels. when buildhost successfully finished a build there is a new image. else, there is not. if it cannot compile all dependencies then it logically cannot package it. i think i know what you really want in the end. a full CI representation of what buildhost does build and what not. i have found http://bitten.edgewall.org/ recently and since we are currently in the process of moving to trac it is very interesting for me. whats missing is the glue between that and the openembedded build system. and to make it really usefull at all we would need unit tests for all 'packages', not only a 'built something' 'did report exit=!0' yes i want that. but let us finish work on getting trac first please ;) if you know your way around trac, python and OE i am happy about everyone who can help me there. -- Joachim Steiger Openmoko Central Services ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
