Re: [Gta04-owner] Invitation to indicate interest in next batch of GTA04A5 boards
Am 02.04.2013 um 22:35 schrieb Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli: On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:22:39 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: So we unfortunately have to postpone the production of GTA04A5 boards, until someone manages to create more demand. This is a little sad, since we now have solved all technological problems and could start production anytime (well the longer we wait the more components will become EOL and have to be substituted). Anyways we will continue to support the existing GTA04A3/A4 by improving the kernel, boot loader etc. If you have ideas how to stimulate demand, please do Yes I've an idea and I'll continue to work on it really soon: Port Replicant to that phone. The current status is that I've a 3.8 kernel booting on it with display, input, wakelocks etc(the android stuff)... So far adb makes the kernel null pointers at shutdown. Also It's highly untested... Is there some project page? Download link or something? Before we couldn't even get it booting correctly under replicant 4.0: or there were some interrupt issue, or there were some touchscreen isue(that I solved in that 3.8 kernel). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Invitation to indicate interest in next batch of GTA04A5 boards
Il 26/03/2013 11.22, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller ha scritto: Hi all, end of march is coming closer which was the original date scheduled for shipment and some of you are waiting for a status information. [...] If you have ideas how to stimulate demand, please do! Nikolaus Schaller Just a simple idea: how about to launch a campaign on Kickstarter (or similar webistes) to collect some pre-orders? Matteo ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Gta04-owner] Invitation to indicate interest in next batch of GTA04A5 boards
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 08:59:03 +0200 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: Am 02.04.2013 um 22:35 schrieb Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli: On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:22:39 +0100 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller h...@goldelico.com wrote: So we unfortunately have to postpone the production of GTA04A5 boards, until someone manages to create more demand. This is a little sad, since we now have solved all technological problems and could start production anytime (well the longer we wait the more components will become EOL and have to be substituted). Anyways we will continue to support the existing GTA04A3/A4 by improving the kernel, boot loader etc. If you have ideas how to stimulate demand, please do Yes I've an idea and I'll continue to work on it really soon: Port Replicant to that phone. The current status is that I've a 3.8 kernel booting on it with display, input, wakelocks etc(the android stuff)... So far adb makes the kernel null pointers at shutdown. Also It's highly untested... Is there some project page? Download link or something. Since it's not ready yet, there is no official images yet, and the documentation on the replicant wiki is a bit outdated with reguard to the GTA04, I prefer to make it usable first. The repositories for the GTA04 are not even integrated yet in the build system(people building replicant for the gta04 are expected to git clone them by hand...). Note that I will need help from someone having an A4(like paulk for instance) for doing the Alsa userspace part once the kernel is complete... Right now the issue is to permit proper shutdown after using adb...That is harder than expected because I cannot use kgdb(I've some toolchain issues with DWARF/debug symbols) Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 333, Issue 4
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Christoph Pulster wrote: Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction sounds all very nice and political correct, but is blabla only. I would wager that there are more folks that care about that stuff than there are people who care about FLOSS. Perhaps that means Fairphone will achieve their aims while this community continues to struggle. Perhaps not, only time will tell. WTF do these guy think we are living in ? Capitalism based on pure exploitation of nature and people from poor countrys. Apple does it, Openmoko does it. There is no way back. OpenPhoenux could have said there is no way back when Apple/Android were dominating the smartphone market, but they didn't. Openmoko could have said there is no way back when the market was full of proprietary phones, but they didn't. RMS could have done the same when he came across someone who signed and NDA, but he started GNU and the FSF instead. Everyone who wants to change the world has to start somewhere and then stand behind their convictions. I can only admire them for trying, whether or not they succeed. Defeatism doesn't achieve anything. In old school business it was called design study and everybody was aware, some creative guys had plenty time to fuck their minds not caring about calculations. Noeadays it is called kickstarter, companys are allowed to collect a lot preorder for non-existing products and consumers are even so stupid to make prepayment for these. Openmoko release a full working product. This will be a archivement in computer history. .Fairphone will never do. I am so sick of all this genius preorder products never available. Plenty of kickstarters are seeking funding for ramping up mass production, which I think is a good way to achieve promotion, production and delivery. This community could learn a lesson or two from such folks. -- bye, pabs ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
On 03 Apr 2013 11:53:00 +0200 openm...@pulster.de (Christoph Pulster) wrote: Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction snip Openmoko release a full working product. This will be a archivement in computer history. .Fairphone will never do. I am so sick of all this genius preorder products never available. Christoph Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. It is fair to comment that our geekphones were not well promoted - but this is the first I have heard of Fairphone, although i don't make a habit of reading the German language internet. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Take a look at these stupid people...
I think You misunderstood this a little bit! The stupid are the journalists, whose are not doing their job! If the TV say This is the first project to create an fair phone, I think this is not correct! But the most people believe in such statements. This is not fair for existing projects! Ok, the fair phone guys should not start an new project, because if everyone starts an new extreme small project no one has a chance to survive (also cause of lack of money and resources/ developer). So these project have to become connected, to reach more customers, to survive and to force the bigger manufacturers to become more fair and green. But fair, I my point of view, is not only to be fair against the workers in mines and factories, it should also be fair to the customers! Especially the support life cycle is not fair for customers and nature. In an earlier TV broadcast (I think it was on ARD), they blamed about the 2 year software/ update support of cheaper smart-phones. If You have to buy an new smart-phone every two years to get new software, I think this is not fair, too. And this is not good for nature..to throw away an working phone. -- Regards Sebastian Reinhardt ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
Hi Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction The Neo FreeRunner is a Linux-based touch screen smart phone ultimately aimed at general consumer use (...) will appreciate the total freedom they have to use and design software for the FreeRunner. Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. exactly. i couldnt even find whats running on the fairphone - probably stock closed android. it could be a selling point for openmoko to be green (and slaveless) too, though. I've never heard anyone about it on the list. open, free AND fair, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
QtMoko image for Freerunner based on debian wheezy
Hi, you can now download wheezy-based QtMoko image from here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmoko/files/Experimental/ I have tested it a bit and havent found any obvious problems except that i cant connect to wifi router at work. But i couldnt even with squeeze based image. So please if you have time, give it a try and report if something does not work as expected. It would be really nice if we could move to wheezy so that GTA04 and GTA02 images are more similar. Regards Radek ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, pike wrote: Hi Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction The Neo FreeRunner is a Linux-based touch screen smart phone ultimately aimed at general consumer use (...) will appreciate the total freedom they have to use and design software for the FreeRunner. Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. exactly. i couldnt even find whats running on the fairphone - probably stock closed android. it could be a selling point for openmoko to be green (and slaveless) too, though. I've never heard anyone about it on the list. Is I already posted earlier on this list, there is already a 'fair' product, a simple mouse, and it's ready to buy: http://www.nager-it.de/maus A mouse of that simplenes and design is usually given away as goodie if you are on a fair (exhibition). The price for the fair mouse starts at 30 EUR with 'upgrade' packages for a 3rd mousebutton etc... So the 'fair' production costs are about 10x higher. Hard to believe that someone buys a phone that costs 3000 EUR, Seeing this before the background, that geeks like us - which are usually willing to spent more money than necessary for toys - are unable to finance Nikolaus GTA project. A. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
On Wed 03 April 2013 15:36:13 Alexander Lehner wrote: On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, pike wrote: Hi Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction The Neo FreeRunner is a Linux-based touch screen smart phone ultimately aimed at general consumer use (...) will appreciate the total freedom they have to use and design software for the FreeRunner. Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. exactly. i couldnt even find whats running on the fairphone - probably stock closed android. it could be a selling point for openmoko to be green (and slaveless) too, though. I've never heard anyone about it on the list. Is I already posted earlier on this list, there is already a 'fair' product, a simple mouse, and it's ready to buy: http://www.nager-it.de/maus A mouse of that simplenes and design is usually given away as goodie if you are on a fair (exhibition). The price for the fair mouse starts at 30 EUR with 'upgrade' packages for a 3rd mousebutton etc... So the 'fair' production costs are about 10x higher. Hard to believe that someone buys a phone that costs 3000 EUR, Seeing this before the background, that geeks like us - which are usually willing to spent more money than necessary for toys - are unable to finance Nikolaus GTA project. A. Add to that the fact(?, rather suspicion) that the electronic components in that fair mouse are still NOT fair production, since it would be impossible to get chips produced from fair rare earth etc in a volume needed for those few hundred mice. I don't think *anybody* has bothered to produce fair chips (silicone) so far, since it's near impossible and would make chips like 30* to 100* as expensive if it could be done, due to low volumes asked. /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Take a look at these stupid people...
On 3 April 2013 13:01, Sebastian Reinhardt s...@lmv-hartmannsdorf.de wrote: If You have to buy an new smart-phone every two years to get new software, I think this is not fair, too. And this is not good for nature..to throw away an working phone. I agree that an artificial withholding of software updates is a ridiculous reason to buy a new phone. Fortunately iPhones and android phones have typically had a few years of software updates available, and with the android mods there's no reason that some older phones can't continue to get new features past the time that Google or the manufacturer want to stop supporting them. But there are other reasons: physical wear and tear, batteries don't work so well after a couple of years, and it's amazing how fast new features continue to be added even though we can start to expect smartphones to be a maturing category of device. Every year there have been more cores, faster clock speed, more memory, more storage, better GPU, better accelerometers, better touch, wacom stylus, better GPS, other types of sensors, NFC, maybe zigbee will come soon? At this point the smartphone is not mature because there's no end in sight. Next we can imagine using an eyetap and some new types of input devices to avoid having to carry the phone in one hand and touch with the other, which ties up both hands and requires you to look down and be out of touch with reality. Every generation of device, there's at least one new feature that you really want. So while I wish technology could have a longer life, it would have to mean a kind of stagnation too, or else such extreme leapfrogging that there is nothing else that you could want for several years while the competitors catch up (like Apple managed to do for a while). A small indie project has a vanishingly small chance of leapfrogging like that. The Neo phones were obsolete almost from the beginning because they didn't support multi-touch and full-screen GPU rendering, just at the time when you would really begin to want both; and on top of that it's bulky, has relatively poor industrial design and the price is too high. But there is room for open source efforts to add features and extend the life of existing devices, I think. New software features are easier to create than new innovative hardware, and revolutionary features are still relatively rare in software. It's just that the same type of person who wants to be a developer is probably also the one who always wants the latest hardware. (Except when that person is too poor to buy it, or when the category is actually mature, as has just about happened to PC's.) The nanotech refinement of 3d printing should eventually make it possible to homebrew custom devices, and upgrade them a piece at a time, but then we will be living in a scarier world with its own set of problems. And it's still a big piece of engineering; remains to be seen if volunteers can ever out-innovate the big guys. So I hope fairphone succeeds, but they will need shoulders of giants to stand on in both the hardware and software areas, otherwise it will be too little too late for too high a price again. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fairphone
On Wed 03 April 2013 15:49:02 joerg Reisenweber wrote: On Wed 03 April 2013 15:36:13 Alexander Lehner wrote: On Wed, 3 Apr 2013, pike wrote: Hi Fairphone aims ... supply chain for conflict minerals, poor working conditions or environmental destruction The Neo FreeRunner is a Linux-based touch screen smart phone ultimately aimed at general consumer use (...) will appreciate the total freedom they have to use and design software for the FreeRunner. Two completely different philosophies at work with little common ground. exactly. i couldnt even find whats running on the fairphone - probably stock closed android. it could be a selling point for openmoko to be green (and slaveless) too, though. I've never heard anyone about it on the list. Is I already posted earlier on this list, there is already a 'fair' product, a simple mouse, and it's ready to buy: http://www.nager-it.de/maus A mouse of that simplenes and design is usually given away as goodie if you are on a fair (exhibition). The price for the fair mouse starts at 30 EUR with 'upgrade' packages for a 3rd mousebutton etc... So the 'fair' production costs are about 10x higher. Hard to believe that someone buys a phone that costs 3000 EUR, Seeing this before the background, that geeks like us - which are usually willing to spent more money than necessary for toys - are unable to finance Nikolaus GTA project. A. Add to that the fact(?, rather suspicion) that the electronic components in that fair mouse are still NOT fair production, since it would be impossible to get chips produced from fair rare earth etc in a volume needed for those few hundred mice. I don't think *anybody* has bothered to produce fair chips (silicone) so far, since it's near impossible and would make chips like 30* to 100* as expensive if it could be done, due to low volumes asked. see http://www.nager-it.de/maus/umsetzung Amazingly they were able to source a few fair elcos, capacitors, resistors, switches. According to this, probably gta04 is also fair /j -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
