Re: [FDOM] best kernel to use for new release

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Geoff Ruscoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Wow, so 3.5 hours into the battery test and its down to 1 bar.
>

So the final result was 4.0 hours from full charge to 0 bars and then
plugged in back in at 5 hrs...
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Re: [FDOM] best kernel to use for new release

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Wow, so 3.5 hours into the battery test and its down to 1 bar.




On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Geoff Ruscoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> I did the mwester and then booted and untarred the mwester modules and
> rebooted.  It has been stable (with suspend turned off), although the
> battery life on mine seems to be just a few hours between being plugged in
> (without usage).
>
> I'm going to monitor it today to see if I can get a more precise
> measurement.  So far its been about 1 hr and its only down 1 bar from full.
>
>
>


-- 
Geoff Ruscoe
Sigma Visions Computer Consulting

C++ is like jamming a helicopter inside a Miata and expecting some sort of
improvement. — Drew Olbrich

C++: an octopus made by nailing extra legs to a dog -- unknown
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Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>  I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a consequence of
> the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use as a screen AND a
> keyboard at the same time, I think)
>

No I just prefer real keyboards over touch screen keyboards (by about
1000X).
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Re: [FDOM] best kernel to use for new release

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I did the mwester and then booted and untarred the mwester modules and
rebooted.  It has been stable (with suspend turned off), although the
battery life on mine seems to be just a few hours between being plugged in
(without usage).

I'm going to monitor it today to see if I can get a more precise
measurement.  So far its been about 1 hr and its only down 1 bar from full.
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Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen

[Geoff Ruscoe]

3) Definitely keyboard and touchscreen.
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Re: [FDOM] best kernel to use for new release

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Fabian Henze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> What about this one:
> http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=shortlog;h=stable
>

I like the way you think!  That would be great.

Are you saying you are using this one?  And you can ssh through usb and make
phone calls and use gps, etc?

So what did you do about the modules for this kernel?  How do you setup a
system to get the right modules for this kernel?
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[FDOM] best kernel to use for new release

[Geoff Ruscoe]

So I'm downloading the new FDOM image, but unfortunately I don't see what
kernel I should use with it.

Is there a best kernel to go with it?

Thanks
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[FDOM/all?] best kernel (as of 2008.10.19)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I have just reflashed with the 2008.09.27 fdom

So first I tried the
testing-om-gta02-20081019.uImage.binkernel
from
http://downloads.openmoko.org/daily/

While everything booted fine, I could not ssh into the device so I had to
give up on that kernel and just reflashed with:

http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.9/Om2008.9-gta02-20080916.uImage.bin

My concern is that there was probably been a lot of kernel fixing that I
should be getting.  Is there any agreement or recommendation of "the best"
kernel to be using right now?  This question is for the FDOM 2008.09.27 but
I'm sure it is a good question for other releases as well.

Cheers!
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[ASU] Is git available for freerunner

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Need I say more?

Oh what about svn?
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[ASU, 2008.8/.9] remove bottom section

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I have removed the assassin installer so it doesn't show up any more (I do
everything command line while ssh'd in) and I want to get rid of the bottom
thing with the little pluses.  Is this a possibility?  I know that it's used
in some weird and inconsistent ways, so this may cause problems, but I'd
rather have the realestate... I would think the "back button" at the bottom
of the app would be better than always wasting that realestate for a bar
that _may_ have the back arrow...

Anyone know how to do this?
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Re: Opkg: how to protect configuration files?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Rod Whitby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> The packager of whatever package includes that file needs to set CONFFILES
> to include that file.  Then opkg will ask you whether you want to overwrite
> the file, or keep your old one, or drop you into a shell to do a manual
> merge.
>

So am I to understand that when they are packaging the config files they are
just not packaging them correctly?  Because many of my config files get
overwritten without asking me anything when I do an opkg upgrade.

So they just need to fix the way they are packaging them?

Specifically, the one that comes to mind right now is 89qtopia because of
the gsm mux enhancement.
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Re: Post problems/bugs related questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED], please

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Kosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> There are tons of duplicated messages on the same list too.
> I just  the same message from Mickey 6 times. But it happens
> all the time with a lot of posts.
>
> I wpuld be nice if someone could do something about it.
>

I believe you two are talking about different types of duplication.  You are
speaking of getting the exact same message multiple times, where as the
original post is saying to read both lists before posting because we get way
too much traffic that is a duplicate of something else already posted.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Freerunner won't charge, and won't start anymore due to out of power

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> the wiki provided me with a very simple (if slightly obscure) semi-fix:
>
> 1. Push and hold the AUX button
> 2. Plug in the wall charger


I had to actually press the power button at this stage to get the boot menu


>
> 3. Select "Boot" in uboot
> 4. Wait while your phone boots up :)
>

Other than that it booted and started its full charge
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Re: illume-config-illume on 2008.8-updates

[Geoff Ruscoe]

>
> Thanks Raster
>
>

I also want to send thanks to the Rasterman!  You've done so much to help us
all out.  It is very appreciated.  I now have a full keyboard and wrench
(and screen saver too).

thanks again!
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illume-config-illume on 2008.8-updates

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Is it possible to run the opkg install for this?

I do not have the testing repository setup (yet).  I have been sticking with
the default opkg repositories for 2008.8-updates.

I could enable it and update, upgrade, and then install the
*illume-config-illume,
but I'm worried I will just end up having to reimage...*
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Re: Echo issue on OM2008.08 solved

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Geoff Ruscoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Okay so I downloaded:
>
> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/raw-attachment/ticket/1267/qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor_4.3.2%2Bgit2%2B13101ab6ddaec380871ae8021a92140af526c4df-r38.05_om-gta02.opk
>


Is this installable on 2008.08 w/ upgrades?
>

Also I just noticed this says gta01 and I have a freerunner.  And sorry for
my previous sloppy top post w/ included comments...
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Re: Echo issue on OM2008.08 solved

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Okay so I downloaded:
https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/raw-attachment/ticket/1267/qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor_4.3.2%2Bgit2%2B13101ab6ddaec380871ae8021a92140af526c4df-r38.05_om-gta02.opk

Is this installable on 2008.08 w/ upgrades?

So I can do a

opkg install -force-downgrade
qtopia-phone-x11-phonevendor-ficgta01vendor_4.3.2+git2+13101ab6ddaec380871ae8021a92140af526c4df-r38.05_om-gta02.opk

To try to fix the echo issue?

Or is this not for 2008.08 w/ upgrades?



On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 9:10 AM, Florian Hackenberger <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sunday 31 August 2008, Petr Vanek wrote:
> > I have installed the new libficgta01vendor.so file but no help, echo
> > still persists. I got the same error as other people ("Not
> > Downgrading"), so manual replacement of the previous
> > libficgta01vendor.so by the new one was necessary. I have also
> > tweaked my alsa settings a bit hoping that in a combination this
> > would be sufficient but it didn't help.
>
> I tested the patch by confirming that there is an echo by calling the
> freerunner, then installed the package (--force-downgrade is required),
> rebooted and placed another call. The echo was gone. Some people
> however still complain about the echo. It seems to depend on the
> speaker volume, but I'll investigate a bit further. It's just that my
> time for working on the phone is very limited. I did the patch
> (including the test) in about 2 hours and haven't had any time since
> then. Please be patient and report your experience. I'm pretty
> confident that we can solve this issue.
>
> Cheers,
>Florian
>
> --
> DI Florian Hackenberger
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.hackenberger.at
>
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Re: gprs and gsm0710muxd

[Geoff Ruscoe]

>
> And one last thing it looks like option 2 (multiplex with no gui) does not
> need the gsm.*muxd from the other site, is this correct?
> I'm going to try that route and see how it goes.
>
>
First note:

opkg install gsm0710muxd (from the std 2008.08-updates) does not create an
/etc/init.d/gsm0710muxdso option 2 doesn't seem to work out of the box on
2008.08-updates...

More info to follow
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gprs and gsm0710muxd

[Geoff Ruscoe]

So I was getting ready to update my 2008.08-update with the gprs and gsm
multiplexing.

Just as a note it sounds like this might be necessary in order to get the
"ECHO" fix using the hidden
AT%N0187 command anyway... but that another thread...

Anyway I was wondering if we knew that the gsm0710muxd from the updates
would still not work.
Also do we know if the instructions at:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS

And one last thing it looks like option 2 (multiplex with no gui) does not
need the gsm.*muxd from the other site, is this correct?
I'm going to try that route and see how it goes.
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Re: [Bug Filing Policy] please read before crate ticket

[Geoff Ruscoe]

(Don't expect the community to understand what you can't sort out
> yourself (put information in the right place))
>
>
How about adding a link at the bottom of the front page of the wiki, next to
the forums links.

A "File Bugs" link that takes you to a page with everything you need to know
in order to file the bugs, search the bugs, etc.
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2008.08-update + The Rasterman's keyboard

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I was wondering if anyone knew what the best way to update the keyboard
settings on the 2008.08 Update would be.

So I had to flash the 2008.08-update image after hosing my other install
(described elsewhere)...

Anyway, so I was trying to figure out the best way to get this update and
The Rasterman's keyboard fixes in place.

Install Rasterman's image and then do the updates from the update 2008.08
repositories?

Install 2008.08-update and manually fix -- I remember how I did this last
time so I may have to hunt.

And then lastly, Rasterman, I read on one of your posts that you are going
to focus on FSO, does that mean I should be too :-).

Basically I want phone and SMS + TangoGPS and modem (did the MUX stuff to
use at same time).  This with battery life, stable suspend/resume, and a
great keyboard, and I'd be happy as a pig on freerunner...

So is there anyway to get a ipk of fixes to convert 2008.08-update into the
Rasterman's keyboard setup?  Or am I better off reflashing again...

Anyway sorry for clogging this email but I think a lot of people would be
really happy to get this going.  And I'm interested in fixes for
2008.08-update, and plans of action for FSO also.

Thanks much all!

-Geoff
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Re: Repository and Images

[Geoff Ruscoe]

As like some others, after installing the new image and opkg install
illume-config

I do not get the wrench and therefore cannot change several settings I would
like to be able to change.

Was there a bug report made for this?

Has there been any progress already (I know, I know, a little patience...)

Has anyone figured a work around?

thanks

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:49 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 07:13:58AM -0400, Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Julian Chu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Community,
> > >
> > >
> > >   *) A new 2008.8 stable image
> > >
> > >  [2]http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/
> > >
> > >  Oh, it's daily build.
> > >
> > >   *) The repository of 2008.8
> > >  After the building process complete, we also sync the
> repository[3]
> > >  People can upgrade from there.
> > >
> > >  [3] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/
> > >
> > >   *) Base Images and repository
> > >  [5] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/
> > >
> >
> > Okay I think these details above sound great, but when I tried them out
> they
> > did not go as expected.  Maybe we can get some clarification on the
> correct
> > path for a user (like me :-)).
> >
> > Anyway,
> > Starting point 2008.08 w/ Zeche's testing repos -- everything up to date.
> > Get this mail installed the testing image
> > created:
> > testing-all-feed.conf
> > testing-armv4t-feed.conf
> > testing-om-gta02-feed.conf
> > all pointing to the testing repository listed above (5)
> >
> > did the opkg update opkg upgrade
> > This did lots of stuff ... I was getting excited about the new code
>
> It also should have asked you if you want to update certain config
> files. For some reason, with these repositories, they try to overwrite
> your /etc/opk/*.conf files. It does ask you though, and you can see a
> diff of the files by pressing D when it asks.
>
>
>


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Re: Repository and Images

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Julian Chu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Community,
>
>
>   *) A new 2008.8 stable image
>
>  [2]http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/
>
>  Oh, it's daily build.
>
>   *) The repository of 2008.8
>  After the building process complete, we also sync the repository[3]
>  People can upgrade from there.
>
>  [3] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/Om2008.8/
>
>   *) Base Images and repository
>  [5] http://downloads.openmoko.org/repository/testing/
>

Okay I think these details above sound great, but when I tried them out they
did not go as expected.  Maybe we can get some clarification on the correct
path for a user (like me :-)).

Anyway,
Starting point 2008.08 w/ Zeche's testing repos -- everything up to date.
Get this mail installed the testing image
created:
testing-all-feed.conf
testing-armv4t-feed.conf
testing-om-gta02-feed.conf
all pointing to the testing repository listed above (5)

did the opkg update opkg upgrade
This did lots of stuff ... I was getting excited about the new code

had dropbear and libncurses issues which I have seen before and solved

did an opkg update and opkg upgrade again to make sure nothing was missed.

And this is where the trouble started I believe... somehow this had added
buildhost repositories to my opkg setup.  It installed a ton of stuff before
I even realized what it was doing so figured I better let it finish and hope
that _somehow_ all the information I knew to be true about buildhost wasn't
true anymore...

Well as you can guess, my device is going to need to be reflashed.

So in summary

>From the information above, I thought link 5 above was the proper repository
for 2008.08?  Is this correct?

If so, how did the buildhost opkg repository files get to my system.  I
would suggest this be fixed pretty quickly.

If I am used to 2008.08 and tangogps, etc.  Should I install the new 2008.08
image (link #2 above)?

I thought this was intended as the upgrade path for 2008.08 for a more
stable (better / more updated packages).  Is this not its intention?

All information regarding this will probably help many other users.  And I
suggest that nobody follow the upgrade path that I did, until these things
are answered, cleared up.

Thanks so much for your efforts.  Really looking forward to getting the next
build!  Since I've bricked my os at the moment I'm going to try to back some
stuff up and flash the 2008.08-update just in case its better :-).  btw,
love the 2008.08 after modding the keyboard and adding the gprs mux stuff.
Super great with exception of super slow after startup and some stability
issues (turning off instead of suspend, etc.).

Thanks again.
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Re: comment of an iphone user

[Geoff Ruscoe]

>
>
> Yes, and let's make sure that the basic phone functions work faultlessly
> out of the box so that colleagues don't laugh at our backs (thinking the
> $450 purchase was a costly mistake from a rush of hubris).
>


I shun thee negative.  Now all can find humor at a lack of understanding and
patience.
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Re: Partitioning 8GB uSD

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Russell Sears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> 2008.8 has the same problem.  It also uses qpe to scan all the data on
> the SD card at boot.  This is why it's really slow right after it boots
> (eg: seconds to echo keypresses in the dialer...).  I use tangogps and
> it wants to index all the map tiles, so it takes *hours* to scan my SD
> card after each boot...
>
> -Rusty
>


I bet that is my problem.  I mean the software stack has improved
tremendously -- I have been using zeche's patches and the terminal keyboard,
and have been really happy, except for the slowness...  I haven't been able
to figure out what to do or what the problem is, but this sounds like the
main cause...  I would definitely like to turn off the scanning or tell it
only to scan (or exclude) certain directories...  This would make such a big
difference!

The patch that was listed, I'm not sure I can translate that into my thought
from above... Would a setting of ContentDatabase=0 turn off the scanning.
I'm not interesting in prescans of the media files... I would rather
manually create play lists of find them with a file chooser.
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Re: USB keyboard in hostmode?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Do you have a source for this info? The only need for external
> > components that
> > I'm aware of is the 15k pulldowns when charging while in host mode.
>
>
> About two years ago I was working on getting USB Host mode working
> "out of the box" on the GP2X, and I ran into this problem - the
> missing cap/resistor combo meant that the USB Host controller
> interface wasn't able to accurately determine what sort of node it was
> communicating with, and thus the onboard Linux driver tried to treat
> it as a hub node when it was really just a 'terminal' node.  I don't
> have a reference for you on this, just going by memory ..
>
>
Can we have a keyboard with that includes batteries and supply juice to the
freerunner while in host mode?  That way when using the builkier setup with
the keyboard plugged into the usb, it could be charging the freerunner?  Or
are the host mode / charging mode multually exclusive?
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SDHC 16GB 15MB/s card

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I am looking to upgrade my Micro SDHC card and I found:

a 16GB Sandisk w / 15MB/s speeds.  This sounded like a winner to me, but I
wasn't sure if it would work.

The model number is:

SDSDRH-016G-A11

Can someone tell me whether this does or does not work.  Or can anyone tell
me if they think it would or would not work (if no one knows for sure).

-Geoff
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Re: full-keyboard for Om 2008.08? -> SOLVED ?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 10:56 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> the wiki is misleading/wrong. Terminal.kbd is what you want - it's all
> installed by default. your problem is being able to use the illume kbd at
> all -
> you are stuck with the qtopia one as long as it feels like creating it.
>
>
Thank you very much, backed up and replaced the Default.kbd with the
Terminal.kbd and now the Full Qwerty keyboard comes up when I launch the
terminal, or the messenger, etc.
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Re: full-keyboard for Om 2008.08? -> SOLVED ?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Andreas Hennig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  I dont have the file
> /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Full-QWERTY.kbd
>

So I have the 2008.08

Then I upgraded the packages using  Zeche's builds:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Download#Unofficial_builds_by_zecke
I went with testing which should be more stable than development (I
believe)...

I upgraded to do the gprs mux:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS#Option_1:_With_GSM_multiplexing_and_with_a_GUI
)

And this is working great.  Then I decided I better get the qwerty keyboard
going.

However, after upgrading all of the packages from above two steps I no
longer have the file:
/usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Full-QWERTY.kbd

So, backing up this file is kind of step 1 in the process found at:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om2008.8_Keyboard#Using_the_Full_Qwerty_keyboard

So three things...
1) I hope these links and tying this information is helpful to someone  I
know I am much happier with my freerunner now, ymmv...
2) I think you may want to backup your files and do the keyboard before the
other two steps...
3) Can anyone provide me with the Full_QUERTY.kbd file?

Thanks so much!

-Geoff
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Re: Ahah: and you released anyway ? - Re: [ Software Testing Report : 2008.08.07 ]

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Olivier Berger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>
> Fights, flamewars and other disputes are part of a live community, so
>

Not the good part.

Collaboration, cooperation, and positive attitudes are the only thing that
really count.

Most of what I read on "our" community mailing list is utter garbage spewed
from people with bad attitudes and a chip on their should.  They are not
Linus and they shouldn't act like they are.  They  should spend more time
meditating, doing QA, or software development and reporting bugs or
providing patches in a fashion that help the project and less time
ranting...

Yeah we all wish the OM stack was more stable (especially OM!).

Thanks all.

Peace.
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Re: Where are the Om2008.8 Updates?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I want to +1 this.  No battery status only the charging lightning bolt (even
when its not plugged in).

I deployed the kernel from the buildhost 2008.08.couple days ago and have
the same problem no usb ethernet.  Had to reinstall original kernel to fix
this.

I couldn't find a bug for this.  Is everyone using 2008.08 having this same
issue?

And +1 also that opkg update ; opkg upgrade hasn't upgraded anything yet...




On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 6:25 AM, carcinoma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> i have the Om2008.8 on my device.
>
> But over the Insteller Update function never recieved any updateable
> Packages, also over the
> opkg manual update && upgrade (i pushed nameserver to /etc/resolv.conf) .
>
> So, there ist a problem with the battery charge level (it only shows the
> blizzard) and i updated the
> kenerl from daly buildhost and this will be fixed. now there is no ethernet
> over usb possible.
> i think the modules does not match the kernel (or something like that). now
> i ask: where can i find
> the updates for om 2008.8 and the matching new kernel. will there be new
> Images for kernel and
> rootfs?
>
> please help me..
>
>  Carci
>
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Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:42 AM, Risto H. Kurppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> And is this patch for tangogps or general gtk stuff.. To me it looks
> it doesn't have much to do with tango..
>
>
It looks to me as though this is something that should be in the 2008.08
deployment (opkg update anybody?).

I would like to thank Marcus for what a great job he's done with tangogps.
I use it more than any other app on the freerunner.  I would like to point
out that tangogps specific stuff probably belongs attached to the tangogps
site rather than here.  I have thought about looking into that as well but
so far this is the closest thing I've done to it.

Thanks again Marcus!  Super glad the app works on 2008.08 (as with many I
was worried).
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Re: InvibleShield at ZAGG : swindling ?!?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Ilja O. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've got confirmation @ Jul 24
> "Your item has been shipped" message @ Jul 28
> And received it today (11 Aug).
>
> That's in Europe.
> Quite slow, but you'll eventually get it.
>
>
>

I got mine too.  About the same time frame (here in the U.S.)
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Re: 2008 WTF??

[Geoff Ruscoe]

2008/8/10 Flyin_bbb8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hahaha :p
>
>>
>> iphone geeks :-) (ow, i said it)
>>
>>
The funny thing is, in my idealistic brain, I thought geeks shouldn't even
want the iPhone...  I know I don't want to have anything to do with that
closed system.  I am truly amazed at how many of the geeks I know actually
bought one.  I mean it seems like great hardware, but no way I want to get
locked into _any_ of apples products.  I lose respect for every geek that
buys one.  (talk about ow, yeah I said it... but I guess they're not reading
here anyway)...

And back on topic.  I think that the 2008.08 is definitely a major step
forward.  I have been using it since that morning and have found it to be
better than all the others.  I think their idea of telling people this is
the most stable is because they want everybody on the same page and right
now this is it.  No sense wondering, "should I stick with 2007.02 or ASU or
..."  This is the best we have, please try it...

I think the key thing other than documenting its _beta_ or _developer only_
state is to start improving the build process so that everyone [most of us]
can dive right in and get going helping out.

I really want to help out, but with limited time, I would do a lot better if
we had a very easy way to get started doing the development.  being able to
follow a _simple_ recipe for getting started and running a single script, or
make, rake, etc for doing the build would be great.  And I think creating
everything to work with Eclipse, a _free_ and very _open_ IDE would be a
great place to do this.

Here's to checking out a git version of the project and opening it in
Eclipse and compiling it!

Thanks again,
Geoff
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Re: bye bye 2008.8, you wont be missed :(

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I agree that the keyboard is a big disappointment.  After learning a few
undocumented tricks (right to left for back space, and the left to right for
accept word) it is a little better, but... if it weren't for the mailing
list I still wouldn't know how to type anything but [A-Z]*...  One of the
flip down keyboard options (not sure what to call this) should definitely be
the full qwerty keyboard (a.k.a. matchbox keyboard?).  But to be fair the
suspend resume is working great for phone and messages.  Battery life is
much improved.  After a little tweaking I got tangogps installed and so I
now have most of the base features I wanted going.  So I'm actually really
really really happy with this release and would like to say thanks to the
openmoko team for doing such a great job.  Just want to say to everone that
was involved in all of the keyboard decision making that was so painful to
read about on this list:  I think you guys had some good ideas but were way
too inflexible and this hurt the end product.  Please try to be more
flexible in the future.  But thanks for all the hard work!  I can't wait to
get developing for this little monster!




On Sun, Aug 10, 2008 at 7:31 AM, Peter Mogensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> William Kenworthy wrote:
> > I am afraid I am going to have to delete 2008.8 and forget it ever
> > existed.  Despite very little of it working, I was giving it a go but I
> > just had a bug I raised on the keyboard closed with "works for me"
> > saying in effect they are only willing to work on the existing keyboard
> > and its working as designed, so there isnt a problem and no changes/new
> > keyboard alternatives are needed.
>
> Well, that was not exactly what was said, but I understand your
> disappointment.
> And I'm desperately trying not to draw the same conclusions.
>
> The keyboard works for me (technically), but it's FAR FROM living up to
> my expectations. It's nice - but only for certain applications and for
> some it really sucks.
>
> /Peter
>
>
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Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing

[Geoff Ruscoe]

>  You can either install it by overwriting
> /usr/share/themes/Moko/gtk-2.0/gtkrc or I think by sticking it in
> ~/.gtkrc-2.0
>
>  Cheers,
>  Mike.

Thanks, Mike.  Your modified gtkrc worked perfectly for me.  tangogps
looks *much* better now.  However, putting it in ~/.gtkrc-2.0 didn't
seem to work for me so I just moved
/usr/share/themes/Moko/gtk-2.
>
> 0/gtkrc to
> /usr/share/themes/Moko/gtk-2.0/gtkrc.orig and pasted yours in.
>
>
That worked great for me too!

Everything looks great now.  Except I still don't have the Auto Center
button anymore.  Anybody else having this problem?




>
>
> Nathan
>
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Re: tangospg and 2008.8 - gui not drawing

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Yes Also I had it crash many times while on the config page.  I was trying
to set it to use my previously downloaded maps in the /media/card/Maps/osm
directory.  And it crashes with the popup about reporting the error.



On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Steven Kurylo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just installed the latest tangogps (0.9.2-r1) on 2008.8.  Several
> GUI widgets aren't drawing properly, which were fine on other
> distributions.
>
> On the bottom left hand corner I see "maps" but none of the other tabs
> to the right are shown, its black.  However if I tap in the black
> area, the page loads properly (trip, config, etc).  If I'm on the trip
> page, I can see the trip tab, but the rest are black.
>
> On the map page, the "fullscreen" button on the top is cut off.  I
> also can't see the autocenter button.
>
> Is this happening to other people with 2008.8?
>
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Re: Qtopia and Java?

[Geoff Ruscoe]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 4:27 PM, Jim Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On my Desktop I just played with Qt Jambi the Trolltech Java UI SDK for
> Java. It looks good, but
> will it work under Qtopia? Or only under Qt/X11?
>
> I have Jalimo loaded on my Qtopia loaded FR and of course none of the
> graphics libs they provide
> work because they are GTK/X11, so what does it take to use Java to write an
> app under Qtopia?
>
> I'd like to be able to write simple apps either in Java or Ruby. I presume
> some people will want
> python too.
>
> There are Qt bindings for Ruby but I think they are Qt/X11 not Qtopia.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks
> Jim
>

I wrote a simple Java GUI app using Jalimo the other day just as soon as I
got my FR.

It worked great, just as described on the wiki/links from wiki.

The key was I went ahead and used the SWT framework (which is also available
in the packages).

a couple recommended opkg installs
built little gui in Eclipse (compiled using the swt jar)
copied the class to the phone
ran from the command line...
And life was full of joy!

Hope this helps.  I know I didn't look up the links, but they are readily
available.  I figured its the procedure that you needed.

Cheers,
Geoff
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GSM Carrier

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Okay so I started looking into the GSM carriers around here [U.S. /
Spefically midwest] and basically it seems to me that our only _real_
options are T-Mobile and AT&T.

So I looked into them and was wondering if anybody had any feedback on
this.  I've seen some other threads, but they didn't cover this exactly.

So with T-Mobile they have a web and email option for like $5 / month (which
says unlimited), but then they also have an internet plan which is like $40
/ month.  Does anybody have these plans and will I be able to use the
FreeRunner as a web device with the $5 plan?

Also do we have the ability to do SMS messages with the FreeRunner as
shipped?
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Group Sales Indiana / Kentucky Midwest

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Hey, I'm trying to rally the troops again so we can get these groups
finalized before the phones go on sale.  Right now we have 5 in the midwest
and 5 in the Indiana/Kentucky.  If we combine right now that's obviously the
perfect 10.  Don't get me wrong I'd rather have two groups with the 10 --
and I'd like to be in the Kentucky / Indiana group because that means we are
all very local.  Anyway if you know anybody who you think might want one
lets make a final push to get these groups numbers together so we're ready.

I can't wait to get my phone!!!

-Geoff
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Re: Will GTK be used in Openmoko? (was: Re: Software Status Update)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I think gtk should definitely be part of the platform.  As far as I know the
Java Swing hooks are for gtk.  Since its shipping with Java it should be
able to use the gtk, right?

Plus as far as I can tell the ruby and python hooks for gtk are slightly
cleaner and easier than working with qt.  So from a developer standpoint I
think we're better off with gtk.

Thoughts?



On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Tim Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hm, this is all new to me.  Has anyone tried grabbing the qtopia keyboard
> and using it with openmoko?  If the libraries are all there, it shouldn't be
> a problem right?
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:05 AM, David Samblas Martinez <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Sorry me if this has been said in other post, but if
>> gtk is not the "default" graphical library  what
>> library gonna be ETK the "official" one?  Just to
>> document me for future apps(ideas) in mind
>> --- Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
>>
>> > I was wondering about that too. Personally I would
>> > rather have stuck
>> > with GTK, but in the grand scheme of things I will
>> > be doing less coding
>> > than other people I imagine.
>> >
>> > On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 07:31 -0700, Michael Shiloh
>> > wrote:
>> > > Have we made the decision then to officially move
>> > away from GTK? This
>> > > was asked on the community list awhile ago, and
>> > IIRC there has been no
>> > > "official" answer.
>> > >
>> > > Michael
>> > >
>> > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > as we are not shipping any gtk apps... not much
>> > of an issue at the moment. the
>> > > > community is free to package up anything they
>> > like. :)
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
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>> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
>> > >
>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>   __
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>>
>>
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Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Thank you Kevin!

That is really good news...

So by setting up a Midwest group we're really just making freerunner friends
near by!

Well that sounds great.  So I guess the best reason for a local 10 pack is
being able to all meet and open up the box and not wait for it to be shipped
again.

Well I'm stoked!



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Paul Buede <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> If you are in Frederick, join our Maryland purchase group, I am 30
> minutes from you.
>
> Kevin Dean wrote:
> > Okay, so I just did some number crunching using the information Steve
> > gave and honestly, there's no reason at all the 10-packs need to be
> > broken up by region.
> >
> > It costs $14.40 to ship a 10-pack from Fremont, CA to Frederick, MD
> > where I live (which is pretty close to "across the country").
> >
> > $3,690 + $14.40 = 3704.4 delivered or $370.44 per phone before shipping.
> >
> > Here's the beautiful thing. Shipping a single unit (from a 10 pack)
> > back, from Frederick, MD to Fremont, CA is $9.95 by UPS Ground which
> > would bring the total cost per unit to $380.39.
> >
> > Assuming that Openmoko's Fremont shipping place is NOT getting a
> > volume discount then the savings over a single unit would be $28.56 if
> > shipped ACROSS COUNTRY both ways.
> >
> > For fun, I decided what it would cost to ship the unit from home to
> > work (as might be done if buying regionally) in Alexandria, VA. The
> > diffrerence in shipping is barely noticable, that a shipment of less
> > than 60 miles makes it less than $2 cheaper.
> >
> > The point is, I horribly overestimated UPS shipping costs and there's
> > actually quite a bit of savings from going in on a 10-pack. That said,
> > I also discovered that doing regional purchases doesn't save much
> > money over doing national purchases. Guys in groups falling short
> > could easily pick up a small group across the country and cash in on
> > the bulk savings. People picking up their phones (perhaps at a LUG
> > meet) can even score an extra $8 to $10 savings over having it
> > shipped.
> >
> > Neat. :)
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> That's quite useful, thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  > I think this is what  you're looking for:
> >>  >
> >>  >
> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  >  > Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread.
> >>  >  >
> >>  >  >
> >>  >  >
> >>  >  > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>  >  >
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>  >  > wrote:
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > >  If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs
> so you
> >>  >  > > >  could do this.
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this?
> I'm
> >>  >  > > subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and
> even
> >>  >  > > considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of
> crap to
> >>  >  > > wade through.
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > Thanks!
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > >
> >>  >  > > >  --
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > >  Steven Kurylo
> >>  >  > > >
> >>  >  > > >
> >>  >  > > >
> >>  >  > > >  ___
> >>  >  > > >  Openmoko community mailing list
> >>  >  > > >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >>  >  > > >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>  >  > > >
> >>  >  > >
> >>  >  > > _______
> >>  >

Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread.

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >  If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you
> >  could do this.
>
> Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm
> subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even
> considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to
> wade through.
>
> Thanks!
>
> >
> >  --
> >  Steven Kurylo
> >
> >
> >
> >  ___
> >  Openmoko community mailing list
> >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
>
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Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

They have provided the specs in a different email stream.

But don't forgot you're going to have to pay for the shipping for an
individual item from CA if you order a single.

And there are extras when you or 10 together.



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:18 PM, Kevin Dean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I notice that certain groups in the USA are consolidating for 10-pack
> purchases. Unfortunately, some of the regions being covered are bigger
> than some entire nations in Europe. While I can't be sure this is the
> case, I can't help but think that joining in a regional 10-pack ONLY
> works if it costs LESS to ship or pick-up your device.
>
> Are there any size or weight dimensions known about the Freerunner
> packages? How much will the 10-pack weigh? How much will a single
> using weight?
>
> Assuming you found 10 people to each chip in for a 10 pack you'd get a
> Freerunner for $369 USD and save $30 USD. This assumes that the person
> getting the Freerunners doesn't charge you to ship it, doesn't charge
> a handling fee, doesn't screw you out of your money. If shipping is
> $10 then that drops your savings to $20. If (like I suspect) the
> Freerunner SINGLE unit costs about $20 USD to ship via UPS your
> savings really drops to about $10 over buying directly from Openmoko.
>
> Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in
> bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus
> individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be
> used to organize bulk purchases?
>
> Thanks.
>
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Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I'm all for a Kentucky Group, but most importantly I want to make sure we
all get packages of 10 together.

If we can get 10 for Kentucky that's fine, but if we get 8 or 9 then its not
:-).

However if we can start at least by getting our midwest together and then
start splitting off... I'm not sure what the best approach is, I just know
that when they go on sale I want to have the 10 pack that I'm on figured out
so that we're good to go immediately.

So whether that's Kentucky or Mid West or I help organize Mid-West and then
switch back to Kentucky --  I don't mid at all.

Cheers!


On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Dan Staley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Like I mentioned before, I actually have a group of 4 here at the
> University of Kentucky that want to buy.  And I believe that Donnie
> Jones said that he also was at this University and was interested.  That
> makes 5 in Lexington, Ky.  Sorry they are not all on the list, I will
> try to get them to put their names on there.  (Dan Staley and John
> Sterling are the 2 names currently on there from my group)
>
> But anyway, if 5 more people from around the Kentucky area want to join
> up, we wouldn't have to spread out all across the midwest...
>
> -Dan Staley
>
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:52 -0400, Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
> > Yes that is exactly the group page I was talking about.
> >
> > I have added a Midwest section just above the Indiana / Kentucky
> > section.
> >
> > If everyone can move their own name to it from their respective
> > sections so we can see where we're at.
> >
> > Thanks everyone!
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Steven **  > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We could use this page:
> > http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
> >
> > -Steven
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Should we create a midwest group or something?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > > I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in
> > Cincinnati.
> > > >
> > > > -Adam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Geoff Ruscoe
> > > Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
> > > ___
> > >  Openmoko community mailing list
> > >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> > >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Geoff Ruscoe
> > Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
>
>
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



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Re: Our new Main page of wiki

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Uhhhmm, yes that was very offensive (I can't speak for Brenda) but
definitely offensive...

But only between the
It's not just the titles that are awkward
and the
a little ridiculous

So I wouldn't take it personally.



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Nick Guenther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It's not just the titles that are awkward, all the text sounds kind of
> awkward. Brenda, don't be offended at this, but your first language is
> not English is it? Perhaps you should leave the content of the
> consumer-facing pages (at least, the ones that are in english) to
> someone who has English intuition. I know, Openmoko is supposed to be
> about Openness, but this is a little ridiculous.
>
> On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:24 PM, Brenda Wang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Here is the design environment I used.
> >  Attached file is the the look of main page design.
> >  My resolution is 1024*768
> >  Under Windows XP IE 6.0, Mac salaries  will look like the attached
> > file.(1024*768 windows )
> >  Under Linux Firefox 2.0.0.13/Mac  Firefox 3.1, the  title  will turn to
> > black. (My setting is use the default color)
> >  The wiki skin I used is Openmoko (default).
> >
> >  Brenda
> >
> >
> >
> >  Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:
> >
> > > On 4/18/08, Bastian Muck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > Too big? Which resolution do you use? 300x200? Ok, with 1920x1200
> many
> > > > things can be too small (specially flash videos and fixed sized hps)
> but
> > I
> > > > think this is also in an usual resolution too small.The solution to
> make
> > it
> > > > bigger at my browser is not the right way i think. Many people don't
> > have
> > > > good eyes and they should also can read the menu.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is a compromise between too big and including people which use
> > > too high resolution. If you have this big resolution, and you don't
> > > have any problems on other web pages, you don't have a problem here,
> > > right?
> > >
> > > Adjusting the font size is easy (ctrl-+), except if you use IE (you
> > > have to go on View -> Text size -> Largest if you use IE).
> > >
> > > Some people use special glasses when they use the computer... you
> > > cannot expect this wiki to use 24pt text. People like to see more than
> > > just a few words at a time. I want to see the whole page without
> > > horizontal scrolling and the whole index table without vertical
> > > scrolling. I think I am not the only one.
> > >
> > > I do not have larger resolution that 800x600 here (very little
> > > screen), and really hate too large fonts.
> > >
> > > That is just my opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
> ___
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> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>



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Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Yes that is exactly the group page I was talking about.

I have added a Midwest section just above the Indiana / Kentucky section.

If everyone can move their own name to it from their respective sections so
we can see where we're at.

Thanks everyone!



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 1:40 PM, Steven ** <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:

> We could use this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GroupSales
>
> -Steven
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:16 PM, Geoff Ruscoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Should we create a midwest group or something?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati.
> > >
> > > -Adam
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Geoff Ruscoe
> > Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
> > ___
> >  Openmoko community mailing list
> >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>



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Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Should we create a midwest group or something?



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'll be the 10th for the Midwest group buy. I'm in Cincinnati.
>
> -Adam
>
>
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>



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Re: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Excellent.  I think that would get us up to 9.  If everyone is interested in
joining together.

I would like to get this figured out so we are ready when the neo is
released!

-Geoff



On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Steven ** <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
wrote:

> You could add in Iowa.  I think there's two interested from
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Iowa-Ames
>
> -Steven
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Geoff Ruscoe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks
> like
> > we are going to have to combine some groups.
> >
> > I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't
> get
> > us to 10, but its closer.  Anythoughts?
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >  Openmoko community mailing list
> >  community@lists.openmoko.org
> >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>



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Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Hey if we are going to get the discount for an order of ten, it looks like
we are going to have to combine some groups.

I noticed that Tennessee, Viriginia, Kentucky, and Indiana still don't get
us to 10, but its closer.  Anythoughts?
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Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness)

[Geoff Ruscoe]

And to be completely frank about about, I've found the tone of this thread
the ugliest thing going on!

I'm happy with just getting this phone so I can start developing for it, and
I've found most of the push on this thread extremely negative and
unproductive.  I would guess that's why a private thread was suggested.
Then that gets turned into an ugly mess as well.

If we have to prioritize to not clog up the list, then right now the focus
should be on getting these devices shipped.  Discussion about future models
is fine, but the whole premise of me and my friends this thing are ugly, is
purely unproductive.

I hope we can just move on and let this thread die.

Heres to the great job everyone has been doing.  Can't wait to get a
FreeRunner and take part!

Sincerely,
Geoff




On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Ian Stirling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> hank williams wrote:
>
> > I have to say my unvoiced thoughts were the same as Ryan's. I was not at
> > all clear why a call for the community to help figure marketing stuff out
> > would be met by a request to take the discussion off list as though it was
> > somehow inappropriate for public discussion. It seemed like a very strange
> > response. Now reading the responses to Ryan's comments seem even more
> > strange. I feel like I am missing something because the responses to Ryan's
> > comments seem on the surface, inappropriate as well.
> >
>
> Me too!
>
>
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Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Thanks so much for the clarification --  I guess I missed that!

So it sounds like the $399 includes shipping to Freemont, CA?  We're
responsible for shipping from there?

And how appropriate that the openmoko neo freerunner goes to Freemont!

I am so excited about this phone I just can't stand it!

Cheers to you all!


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Erland Lewin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for the quick answer, Steve.
>
> 2008/4/27 steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > just doing a quick check from UPS the shipment from the US [to Europe]
> > for a single phone would be on the order of 70 USD
> >
> > For 10 phones the bulk is on the order of 160USD, which mean 16USD per
> > customer.
> >
> Could you offer shipping by the US Postal Service? Looking at their
> website, I see that for instance, they have a service called 'Express Mail
> International' that would cost $28 for a single phone, with a delivery time
> in 6 days to Sweden, and a service called 'Priority Mail International'
> which would cost $19 for delivery in 6-10 days.
>
> The same services would be $51 for a 10-pack with delivery in 6 days, or
> $35-40 for delivery in 6-10 days.
>
> I'm sure many customers would prefer saving, say $50 on the shipping of a
> single phone, or $120 for a 10-pack even if delivery takes an extra week
> (even if we're all anxious to get our phones).
>
> Geoff: I was asking about shipment to Europe. I think Steve mentioned
> shipping to Freemont, CA because he was saying that all phones are shipped
> from China to Freemont directly first, and then to wherever the customer is.
>
> /Erland
>
>
>
> _______
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> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>


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Re: Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe

[Geoff Ruscoe]

I'm a little confused.

Are you saying to order 1 phone to the US we will have to pay $70 for
shipping?  That is so expensive!  We need to make sure everyone is aware of
this, because we must order the 10 packs.  I have posted for the Indiana /
Kentucky 10 pack.

So if we were to order a 10 pack it would be $160 shipping right?  So $16 /
phone.  So we would get a $30 or $40 discount on the phone and then a $54
discount on the shipping.

Am I putting this together correctly?  You were talking about shipping to
the U.S. right?

I say this because I noticed on one line you said to California and on
another line I saw shipping with UPS from the US.

Can you clarify so we can make sure we get our 10 people together.

Thanks!


On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 1:56 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Lots of questions.
>
>
>
> Let me see if I can help with some basics.
>
>
>
> We ship a 10 Pack  to Fremont California.
>
>
>
> Dimensions are  435mm x 371mm x 119mm
>
> I think the weight is on the order of 3kilo. An individual box weighs 237
> gm.
>
>
>
> The individual box is dimensioned thusly. 178mm  x 104mm x 84mm
>
>
>
> just doing a quick check from UPS the shipment from the US for a single
> phone would be on the order of 70 USD
>
> For 10 phones the bulk is on the order of 160USD, which mean 16USD per
> customer.
>
>
>
> I picked a random EU city to just get a sense of things.
>
>
>
> EU hub will happen in due course. When the costs of hubbing in the EU
> benefit our end users.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Erland Lewin
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 10:06 AM
> *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
> *Subject:* Shipping questions, customer organized distribution in Europe
>
>
>
> In preparation for The Big Day, I have some questions about how the
> shipping from OpenMoko will work.
>
> How much does one package (with a single phone) weigh (approximately)?
> What will its dimensions be?
>
> There's been talk about a hub in Europe, has that idea been scrubbed? IF
> not, will it be in place in time for the first shipments?
>
> When ordering directly from OpenMoko to Europe, how much will shipping
> cost for a 10-pack? Would that package come from the US, China or Taiwan
> (just curious)? How much would shipping be for 24 10-packs (approximately
> 235 phones have been noted for Europe on the Community purchase wiki page)?
>
> If OpenMoko doesn't set up a hub in Europe, I wonder if it would make
> sense for us consumers to do our own hub-like distribution. Using prices
> from the Swedish postal service (which is probably not one of the cheapest
> in Europe), if a single phone package weighs between 500 g and 1 kg, it
> would cost €24 to send as an insured letter to other European countries. Not
> all that expensive, I think.
>
> Distribution would probably be even less expensive if we order one package
> to the country in Europe with the lowest postal rates (maybe combined with a
> low VAT), then ship phones to one person in each country in the city/region
> with most buyers, who then posts them domestically to each buyer in other
> parts of his country, and maybe hands them out to buyers in his own city.
>
> The biggest difficulty would probably be that this would involve a lot of
> money (over 50 kEUR), and increase the trust required for all this to work.
> How much we would save on the shipping would be a factor involved in whether
> this would be worth the trouble.
>
> Buying directly from OpenMoko would probably not provide us with a
> particularly good guarantee, so some European buyers might prefer to buy
> from European resellers.
>
> If we could get the shipping costs (which should be known by now?), we
> could do some calculations.
>
> /Erland
>
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Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Louisville, KY

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Jon Booker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
> "Geoff Ruscoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
>
> Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?
>
> --
> Joseph Booker
>



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Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

[Geoff Ruscoe]

Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
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