> a) the group "free software" is nothing but a combination of an adjective
> and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive
That might be the case, but in the context of distributing a piece of
software in the context of GNU/Linux, "free software" refers to
the FSF's notion.
Any ot
> Debian is definitely great, but it has a big disadvantage on the FR:
> Size matters.
More generally, it has trouble adapting to particular hardware needs,
whether disk space, FPU-less CPU, small RAM, etc...
Its precompiled nature makes it largely unavoidable, sadly.
Stefan
PS: it is
> '> Apart from factoring out those modules, is the new kernel improved in
>> some way? And is it built without the debug settings?
> It's the latest upstream andy-tracking, mostly meaning that if
> compared to July snapshot Bluetooth, GPS etc. should handle suspend
> better among else. Debug is
> It's not hard to run your browser on the neo as user. Though it should
> be made default.
It is the default if you install Debian on your Freerunner,
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I just installed QtMoko (v18) on a uSD to try it out, and while it looks
OK, it never shows me any keyboard, which makes a lot of its
functionality unusable.
Is it supposed to popup automatically? If it doesn't, is there some way
to force it?
I do see a little "Aa" icon at the top of the screen
>>> '> Apart from factoring out those modules, is the new kernel improved in
some way? And is it built without the debug settings?
>>> It's the latest upstream andy-tracking, mostly meaning that if
>>> compared to July snapshot Bluetooth, GPS etc. should handle suspend
>>> better among else.
>> > well, but that's a specific scenario for a rather limited audience, isn't
>> > it?
>> Sure nowadays but if a user could easily choose encryption they might
>> just use it.
> I suspect that without a hardware encryption engine the performance and
> battery life hit will be too much for most pe
> I switched from ext3 builtin to ext3 as module, because this is more
> Debian like. I guess I will have to change this back to built in,
> because we have no initramfs?
So, IIUC you also switched to jffs2 as module, which would explain why
I can't boot into my NAND-installed Debian.
I think both
> The “Aa” icon means the input method is set to Phone Keys, but of course
> the FreeRunner lacks a physical keypad. You need to press the white
> triangle, which points down, to the right of the “Aa” icon to choose one
> of the keyboard-based input methods. I prefer the Docked Keyboard. In
>> Now I keep wondering: why is this Debian-based distribution not using
>> *.deb packages for its /opt/qtmoko stuff?
I finally saw that this is a TODO item, so clearly it's just because
nobody did it.
Stefan
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Reminds me of the following feature request:
when downloading levels N...N+4 (or 5, 6, younameit), please also
download all the levels above (it's a negligible fraction of the
corresponding disk space and network bandwidth anyway).
I.e. instead of "downloads N to N+4", it should be
"download levels
> Yes you need to configure the userland watchdog to do something
> useful. Like check that you have no processes in disk sleep (D) state
> and that SSH server is running etc.
Which watchdog daemon would that be, and hos do you configure it.
The only ones I've seen were trivial (like busybox's) a
>> Which watchdog daemon would that be
> It's the normal one that everyone's been using since 1996 :-)
Duh! Thanks for making me finally see the obvious,
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>> Also... do QtMoko really log to files on flash or have I missed
>> something. I would prefer logging to a ramfs like on SHR.
> Now it logs to flash. I have been experimenting with this
> a little. It's very wanted for next releases...
I use the following script:
% cat /etc/init.d/syslog-bu
> flash partitions are not scanned? Why?
Because reading even just a single file of a jffs2 partition requires
a lot of time (typically proportional to the size of the jffs2
partition).
Stefan
PS: Think of a jffs2 partition as a "cyclic tape": to find a file, we
first need to find the
>> I've gone for a less radical approach, as most of the loglines came from
>> qtopia:
>>
>> in /etc/init.d/qpe.sh
>>
>> change the line that starts qpe in
>> qpe 2>&1 | logger -p local5.debug -t 'Qtopia'
>>
>> than use /etc/syslog.conf to only log important info (see man
>> syslog.conf)
> Sure
>> Why not use the circular in-memory buffer provided by busybox's syslogd?
>> It's what OpenWRT uses (and many other embedded firmwares): it doesn't
>> eat up your Flash/disk, but still gives you access to the last
>> few messages.
> but we dont have busybox in debian.
??? Ever tried "aptitude se
> 1. PCB and very special components only (you can go shopping yourself).
> 2. PCB and complete component set (unsoldered)
> 3. PCB and components already soldered on a professional SMT line (we
> have one)
> 4. same as 3 including a Wi2Wi GPS receiver module (we are not sure if
> the internal
> This is done to protect users from malware,
Please don't spread such misinformation. It is done to keep control of
the device away from the user. I.e. it's only correct if you define
"malware" as "program that the company doesn't like", whereas I think
it's usually understood as "program which
> 1/ USB Host is not working in v30, v31 (in v26 is). Dmesg says "unable
> to enumerate device". I was trying to connect USB flash drive, BT dongle
> and USBtoRS232 converter (With PL2??something chip) - all these were
> working on v26.
The FreeRunner's USB port can be switched from device to host
> * qtmoko and it's applications are packaged as debian packages
Yay! Thanks for the rest as well, but this is the big one for me.
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* removed package vim-tiny from v33 .tgz, please re-add it as default;)
>>> > > Hmm i am trying to keep the image as small as possible. I'd rather
>>> prefer if
>>> > people could install they favourite apps with apt-get.
>> I agree, but I think vi/vim is quite a basic tool in any distribut
> I badly need to set up a new FTP server with bigger disks and a newer
> ftpd that supports REST, so that I can put *everything* I have online.
> But I can't stomach PC hardware, at least not in my machine room: I'm
> OK with x86 laptops and *maybe* desktop workstations, but an x86
> server is a n
>> what you think would bring forward the Openmoko community
> Hardware: One-man-show Nikolaus
> Software: One-man-show Radek
> I am praying each night, that both of you fasten your seatbelt daily.
> Instead a participating community we converted to simple consumers
> waiting for news and order b
My GTA02's screen is cracked. The display is still very good, but the
touchscreen is unusable, making the whole device unusable.
Does anyone have pointers as to where I could find a replacement (what
hardware should I be looking for)?
Stefan
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>> My GTA02's screen is cracked. The display is still very good, but the
>> touchscreen is unusable, making the whole device unusable.
>> Does anyone have pointers as to where I could find a replacement (what
>> hardware should I be looking for)?
Thanks to all your help, I now have a replacement
>> > on="expr:@/Network/Interfaces/Wifi/State == 2"
>> active="expr:@/Network/Interfaces/Wifi/State == 2"
>> onclick="message=QPE/Application/qterminal,setDocument(QString),/opt/qtmoko
>> /bin/ping.sh" />
> There is command line utility calles vsexplorer (or something like that) in
> /opt/qtmoko/bi
So, now that I replaced the touchscreen in my GTA02, I can try and
actually use that gizmo. So I installed QtMoko v54, and it seems to
work fairly well. But I can't figure out how to connect to my home
wifi. Part of the problem might be that I don't understand the UI.
Here's what I expect:
- c
> there is a very good description in the GTA04 Manual:
> http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/Manual/
> It's the same procedure on the GTA02!
Thank, worked a treat (even easier when the screen you're removing is
already broken ;-)
Stefan
__
> Am I doing something wrong? Is there some way to get some info about
> what went wrong? Can I provide my network's password via the command
> line instead?
Any help to connect to a home WPA network?
Stefan
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The main problem I see with such Free and/or Open phone is the "small
production" syndrome. Small productions mean high prices and low
reliability, whereas we need reasonable prices and reliability.
So we need to focus on making larger production. For that, we need to
widen the target "market".
> I don't see reliability as a problem because it depends on what type
> of reliability you are thinking of: component, software, hardware,
> production, or availability.
Small production runs means very few people have a chance of
discovering, let alone, fixing the various problems that can show
> Production problems show almost immediately, even if there is only one
> person. And they show after making let's say 20 units.
As you know, that has not been the experience with the GTA02, where
audio quality output (works fine for line-out but not for headphones),
GPS issues, and the "1024 is
> There are numerous threads on Reddit that explain very well why this is not
> feasible [1,2,many]
This is bogus. It is feasible. Just not quite in the way those people
ask for it. E.g. you wouldn't have just a CPU module, and instead you'd
have a module that combines the CPU with many other t
> But none of them is building modular devices. I wonder why.
For the same reason they don't make their hardware open, for the same
reason they don't make their software Free, for the same reason they
don't want you to have root access on your phone.
Stefan
> Upgrade? Surely you must have meant downgrade - why would anyone in
There are tradeoffs everywhere. I think that having a 100% free
firmware for the cell-phone part is really great. Having an up to date
"smartphone" that runs Free Software is also great.
I see no reason why one project shoul
> are you using your FR because it's free or because it's a smartphone?
I don't really use my FR for the following reasons:
- I don't use its phone part because it's not Free (I guess by now
I could try to use your firmware to fix that part) and because I don't
like the idea of being actively
> Lets not forget - just one man working doggedly on the only project that
> offers any possibility of a cell phone running firmware that offers the
> four freedoms.
FWIW, last I checked, his work does sadly not enjoy any of those
freedoms. Yes, you *can* look at the code, change it, and redistri
>> but still very different from the the goals of Free Software.
> Are they very different?
As long as this FreeCalypso code stays very obscure and marginal, in
practice the difference might not matter that much.
I think what you're saying is that from an Open Source point of view,
his effort is j
> And how many people have responded to this shutdown plan by taking a
> vow to live without any cellphone at all instead of accepting 3G/4G
> when such shutdown happens?
Why would someone do that? I mean this as a real technical question:
what is the difference between 2G and 3G which would caus
> Well, I'm actually looking at taking it further - apart from being a
> frontend to mplayer. I'm also looking at playing ogg through tremor and
> trying out mpg123 to see if that is any better. Though, I intend stopping
> after these two codecs - since most audio IMHO is likely to be in these
> fo
> I just got my new FR fone as a part of my university research program
> and tried installing apache2 but it does not install.It returns error
> status 2.
> Can you guys suggest how i can go ahead. I am using OM 2008.12. I tried
> opkg install apache2
FWIW, maybe you'd be better served by ins
> Hey, I'm trying to use Pythm, but the gstreamer backend seems broken.
> It doesn't play any sound, and judging by CPU usage, it's not even
> trying. I have no idea where to look to diagnose this...
Try the MPD backend. For me, it works without hassle.
Stefan "apt-get install mpd"
_
> See subject, I use SHR-Unstable. :\ Is mpd available for that?
It's packaged for OpenWRT, and it shouldn't be difficult to package it
for OpenEmbedded, so if it's not, that's easy to fix.
Stefan
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>> FYI, there is a new version of pythm available on opkg.org
> I only miss one little thing
> When you add an entire directory to playlist, tracks are alphabetically
> ordered, but, if exists, they should be ordered by track # (from ID3 or ogg
> tags).
This turns out to be a tricky problem.
>
> I think it's a problem of horsepower.
I don't.
> If you can, as modern players do, read all id3 info of all tracks,
> and process it on a relational database, you can perfectly sort all
> your songs by author/album/year/genre/what you want ;)
Actually, if you only use ID3 info, it's very dif
>> Actually, if you only use ID3 info, it's very difficult to do a good job
>> of sorting files: it's basically impossible to reliably figure out which
>> songs are part of the same album and which aren't. You can use
> I've solved all those problems the first times I opened amarok, and
> now it's
>> Except that those ID3 tags have a clear meaning, and "fixing them" to
>> get the sorting to work may imply "breaking them" in the sense that the
>> info they carry is not quite correct any more.
>> Tho, I guess it depends on the details: in which way did you change the
>> ID3 info to solve such
> Your mentioned 50mA for the AUX LED is ridiculous.
It is. Sadly it's also true.
> And when you are on battery the AUX led is off by default and even if it
> blinks (like i modified my led behaviour) it isn't really much it uses.
Indeed, it's not lit very often... I'll let you guess why that i
> I have suggested a refinement on the second approach: short the small
> capacitors. Add big caps outside the shielded unit - there are places
> with room. But don't put wires from the caps into the shielded
> unit. Connect them to the headset plug instead, and break the plug's
> normal connect
> | I'd love to see a good answer to those questions. Currently, it's
> | unusable as an MP3 player and that's an important use for me (if
> | I could use it as an MP3 player, I'd carry it with me that much more
> | often, which would in turn increase my use of it).
> Lifting the can and meddling
> I have been able to extract some packages by using "tar -zxvf" after
> renaming the extension to tar.gz - though I cant with all packages (and
> I dont know why).
Try it with `file': it will usually tell you what kind of file you're
looking at. `ipkg' packages have used various formats over t
> AFAIK file should return you a 'debian binary' file format for ipk
> packages now.
Duh, it does now indeed. I can see why it can be useful, but for it
would also sometimes be useful to know that it's a "subtype" of `ar'.
Stefan
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> "Rask" == Rask Ingemann Lambertsen writes:
>When installing opk/ipk packages from e.g. http://www.opkg.org/, there
> will be problems with unmet dependencies because Debian uses other
> package names for some of the packages providing the dependencies. I've
> created a few small package
>> When installing opk/ipk packages from e.g. http://www.opkg.org/, there
>> will be problems with unmet dependencies because Debian uses other
>> package names for some of the packages providing the dependencies. I've
>> created a few small packages which create a mapping of the package names so
>
>>> Nice it would be grat in future if we (debian users) could just add opkg
>>> repos as deb ones... maybe with different priority... it may be difficult
>>> and risky, but indeed useful!
> Wouldn't it be much easier to just create real debian packages?
Well, since [io]pkgs can be found in all k
> As a matter of fact, I'm convinced donations to Free Software, through
> Foundations, could be one of the best approaches to support FS
> development, if governments had laws allowing donations to be somehow
> deductible to taxes. But I have yet to see the FSF, FSFE, ONU, etc, to
> lobby for
FWIW, there's another source of info that might be used: jitter.
When you have two fingers pressed, not only the reported position is
more-or-less the middle point, but it's also jittery.
So you could detect such jitter as a tell-tale of "multitouch" and then
use the jitter itself (orientation and
>> Cellhunter tries to read out your $HOME variable. when NOT set it goes
>> to /home/root (line 536)
> that seems to be a very strange fallback
> - where is root's home below /home/? so far i've seen it in oe only
> - why is the user "root" assumed?
> a sane fallback would be /tmp, which usually e
> Unfortunately, the jitter has many interpretations.
> * The user is moving the fingers apart
> * The user is moving the fingers together
> * The user holds the finger still, but pressure varies
I think the jitter you should see with multitouch should be quite
different from finger moves: much hi
>> No, a sane fallback would be to signal an error and exit.
> that's no fallback -- that's an exit strategy.
For a problem detected at startup, it's much better than
a bogus fallback.
After all, a missing HOME envvar, or a $HOME that points to a missing
directory is the result of a misconfigurati
> I want to configure neo as a bluetooth headset for my linux PC SIP client so
> that i can receive my VOIP calls on my neo speakers and i can talk with my
> neo microphone!
Interesting. I wonder, tho: why do you prefer such a setup over
one where the FR itself runs the VOIP program?
St
> i have uploaded the debian based rootfs here [1]. All the patches
> to QTE Improved GIT were sent on this list yesterday.
Nice. The next step is to package QtE so it can be installed via
apt-get.
Stefan
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> Yes, i was thinking exactly the same. There are some things that
> have to be solved cleanly before this can be done. E.g. the udev
> rule for GSM modem. I have described it in my howto.
The udev rule seems easy to fix: rather than put it in
/media/card/etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules, put it in
>> He also explains what it would take to put 3G in the phones, saying
>> that they'd do it (but the 3G part would be closed) if a customer put
>> in a large enough order (ie 50,000 units).
> You've just convinced me that, unless this changes, no OpenMoko with 3G
> will get my money as far as I'm c
> Regardless of what you produce as Plan B, even if it's a hair
didn't you mean: especially
> straightener, I'll buy one. ;-)
-- Stefan
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> Yeah, I get that much, but what do I put into it? :P
"google swap /etc/fstab" should give you the necessary info.
Stefan
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> From what I understand, mplayer can take over a full window given it's
> id. I don't know how to make mplayer take over part of a window.
IIUC the "window id" passed to mplayer does not have to be
a top-level window.
Stefan
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> It'd also be nice to have an option for automatically "zooming out".
> That is, if I have a bunch of tiles at zoom 15 (downloaded using
> tangogps perhaps) then I want the zoom 14 tiles covering the same area,
> as well as the zoom 13 tiles, and so on all the way up to the top.
> Of course, the
> Would it be possible to have an option which, if set, would
> * answer automatically each incomming phonecall,
> * play a previously save wav file as a "I not here at the moment blabla "
> welcomming message and route it so that the correspondant can hear it
> * record the remote guy until he/she
> i would like to distribute in my rootfs video player that can play
> theora videos in fullscreen mode 320x240.
I'd also like a way to play Theora&Ogg videos fullscreen.
> I was experimenting with mplayer on with fbdev as video output, but
> i was able to play just very small resolution video (1
>> They run Linux on TVs now?? What kind of processing is a TV doing that
>> needs an OS overseeing it?
> I think it started with MHEG engines for DVB, and EPG. Next they
> started adding things like SD and USB with media viewers. This one's
> got an ethernet port that's currently unused, but so
> It's been asked before but I can't find any references to a package
> for Emacs. Does such exist? If not, how can I get Emacs running -
If you run Debian on your FR, then you can just "aptitude install
emacs".
> doesn't need to be xemacs as I'm quite happy to run it either in
> terminal or via
>> It's been asked before but I can't find any references to a package
>> for emacs. Does such exist? If not, how can I get emacs running -
>> doesn't need to be xemacs as I'm quite happy to run it either in
>> terminal or via a remote session.
> I install joe which includes jmacs an emacs-li
>>> It's been asked before but I can't find any references to a package
>>> for Emacs. Does such exist? If not, how can I get Emacs running -
> Use vim in stead!
It's been a long time since I last looked at it, but AFAIK Vim's
emulation of Emacs is at best very poor.
Stefan
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What are we supposed to do to get Mokomaze to run as a non-root user?
Stefan
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> debian-gta02:~# apt-get-file install
> http://projects.openmoko.org/frs/download.php/575/ledclock_0.6_all.ipk
> trap: 26: ERR: bad trap
> Any clue ?
The script uses /bin/sh but actually relies on bashisms, so if your
/bin/sh is actually something else (like dash, according to my crystal
ball),
> For me, I think you've hit the nail on the head. We're trying something
> new with gta02-core, and by working on the small changes we've proposed
> we can focus on the tools that we use, the organisation of individual
> contributors and the stages we need to go through to get functional
> hardwa
> As far as I know most (all?) distributions for FR use root account to
> run phone application and to access device via ssh. To my mind this
> introduce great security risk.
The Debian distribution works with a non-root user.
Stefan
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> After nearly 5 months development, I'm happy to announce the first alpha
> release of omgps.
Looks like a great alternative to TangoGPS. I like the ability to write
on the map and save it as a screenshot. But I would even prefer a way
to take notes via the microphone and/or the keyboard, autom
>> Also, I know everyone loves X, but is it really the best choice for a low
>> powered device that needs a responsive UI?
X used to be a resource hog. But that was when processor speed was
measured in MHz and with a single digit (and RAM was measured in MB and
also with a single digit).
For the
> Is there a problem if i flash my neo too many times? because i have done
> around 20 times in a week time..
Be careful: at this rhythm, your flash will only last ... another 1000
weeks (or maybe 1 if you're lucky).
Stefan
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>> The correct solution is to decide that "dpi" means "pixels per
>> apparent inch." Because we look at the FR from much closer than we
>> do a desktop screen, the dpi that we set in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
>> should be somewhat less than the physical pixels per inch.
>>
>> I estimate that I see a d
> i don't know if this topic was already a discussion, but i think, if
> openmoko could change to axfs, i belive, it's a great performance-step.
Problems with it:
- axfs is read-only, so you'd need to use a setup similar to OpenWRT
with a axfs filesystem containing "the base system" plus a jffs
> And I'm not sure that multi touch is really so important and the low res
I do not know if it's important, but being restricted to events of the
form mouse-1-down, mouse-1-up, and mouse-move is problematic in
my experience.
So if we can't have multi-touch sensitivity, we need some other source
> Me too, high-res is all good.. But high-res does NOT preclude the use of
Actually, the high-res is one of the highlights of the FR for me. So,
while I don't need 280dpi, I wouldn't settle for less than 200dpi for
a gadget I hold so close to my eyes.
Stefan
__
> You can of course install Debian stable on your FreeRunner, but it won’t
> contain any OpenMoko-specific software.
I'm running fso-pkg (unstable) alongside plain Debian testing.
Stefan
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> deb http://ftp2.de.debian.org/debian testing main
> deb http://ftp2.de.debian.org/debian unstable main
> deb http://pkg-fso.alioth.debian.org/debian sid main
More like
deb http://ftp2.de.debian.org/debian testing main
deb http://pkg-fso.alioth.debian.org/debian unstable main
Stefan
> [1] - which is ironic given that they were invented to encourage people to
> publish their ideas rather than keep them secret.
Actually, not so ironic: it basically means that rather than keeping
them as internal secrets, they get to lock them in
a government-provided vault.
IIRC, the history
>> It looks now like that:
>>
>> auto lo
>> iface lo inet loopback
>>
>> # freerunner
>> auto usb0
>> allow-hotplug usb0
>> iface usb0 inet static
>> address 192.168.0.200
>> netmask 255.255.255.192
>> post-up /etc/network/freerunner start
>> pre-down /etc/network/freerunner stop
> You should on
> I need to check how much mA does it takes, any ideas how can I do that?
cat /proc/bus/usb/devices should give you that info.
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> 1) Improved responsiveness, especially with regard to starting the
> next song in a play list.
> 2) Lowered processing overhead during main update loop.
> 3) Tweaked the GUI. Most notably, the buttons are larger.
> 4) Read ID3 tag info at play list load time using python ID3 library.
> 5) Optiona
> Anyway, I'm also inclined for FAT, mostly for the simplicity (thus "less
> susceptibility to corruption") and universality of the fs. I'm just left
I'd stay away from FAT: its simplicity makes it less susceptible to
software bugs, maybe, but still susceptible to corruption.
The general recommen
> I am still in the process of making changes, but I have some packages
> if anyone wants to try it. This version has the option of using a
> gstreamer back-end (the default with the packaged config file) instead
> of mplayer. By using gstreamer, CPU and memory load have been reduced,
> and I was a
> 2) I would have liked to use mpd, but I have never been able to find a
> package for it for arm. It is not feasible to stream from a server,
> since I listen to music in my car.
Hmm I'm under Debian where I just "apt-get install mpd".
But `mpd' is packaged for OpenWRT and AFAIK there's also
> In my experience, MPD is a pain to set up.
Hmm... that's probably something we can improve.
I had no trouble with it but then it wasn't the first time I set it
up: could you give us some hint what was difficult?
Stefan
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> Ahh, just when I want a media player, the last thing I usually want to do is
> edit conf files.
The only thing that should need specifying in this file should be the
directory where the songs are kept. What else did you have to edit?
> Then, I had to find a client, and perhaps I got a bad one
> done on the FR. Therefore, I'll edit the page with "opinions are
> divided" regarding reliability and "no objective comparisons yet for
> other criteria".
It'd be much easier to just punt on the whole issue and say "same rules
apply as for any other Linux system".
Stefan
___
> Before, mplayer took 40%-50% of cpu according to top.
> Now, pythm-bin uses 48%-49% instead. This when playing stereo .ogg
Still sounds much too high. Even my home router (266MHz MIPS) decodes
.ogg with less than 30% of CPU. Usind `mpd', my FR shows significantly
less than 20% CPU decoding .o
> files. All that was required was a frontend for it! I know pythm is just
> that, but my Neo uses more than 30% CPU with it. It could be a minor bug -
I'll just remind people here that pythm also works with MPD. If you use
the MPD backend, it works very efficiently (probably the same as what
you
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