Re: WTB: Openmoko, WTS: Wikireader
Hi Folks, sorry for my previous email. In deed it was intended for Christoph Pulster as response to his request for GTA02-devices. Best Regards thomas On Friday 02 November 2012 13:50:04 Patryk Benderz wrote: > Dnia 2012-11-02, pią o godzinie 13:04 +0100, Thomas Otterbein pisze: > > Hallo Christoph, > > > > ich habe einen GTA02, schon mit 1024-Rework (durch Golden Delecious, die > > auch > [cut] > Hi Thomas, > I suppose your message was intended for Christoph only. If not, please > use English language on this ML. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WTB: Openmoko, WTS: Wikireader
Hallo Christoph, ich habe einen GTA02, schon mit 1024-Rework (durch Golden Delecious, die auch einen Extra-Akku dazu gepackt haben), den ich praktisch nicht benutzt habe. Meine Versuche mit verschiedenen Distributionen waren eher bescheiden und so tief einsteigen konnte ich aus zeitlichen Gründen nicht. Ich mußte erkennen, daß ich, obwohl mit Leib und Seele Programmierer, mit meinem Telefon doch hauptsächlich telefoniere und kaum "spiele". :-) "Lieferumfang": - Originalverpackung - GTA02 - Ersatz-Akku Schöne Grüße aus Köln Thomas On Friday 02 November 2012 10:46:00 Christoph Pulster wrote: > Hi, > > I am Chris from Openmoko Shop www.pulster.eu > > We sell now the OM Wikireader for 49 eur. Shipping worldwide. > Besides we still stock all Freerunner accessories and also give away > free debug boards, screen protectors etc. > > For a customer we need some more GTA02 units. Please feel free to email > me in case you want to sell yours. Price offers 100-200 eur depending on > condition. email: openm...@pulster.de > > thanks, > Chris > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko v18 - based on 2.6.32
Hi Radek, > > Hi Thomas, > sure, i can modify xorg.conf. My configuration can be found in this > document: > > http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/blob/master/doc/txt/debian_rootfs_howto.txt > > But i dont understand where to put the "void". In you case it would go into line 333: Driver "mouse" would be replaced with Driver "void" HOWEVER: > Maybe i dont understand it correctly, but i thought that touchscreen is > different from mouse and should not appear in /dev/input/mice because it > generates absolute screen coordinates while mouse generates relative > coordinates. But that is just my impression, i havent read any docs about > it yet :) I'm also not a real expert on Touchscreen but until now I was responsible to make 4 different Touchscreens from 3 different vendors work on our embeded Debian system. It all comes to a point where the device is supported by the kernel, either by default (maybe 2.6.32 is such a case for the ts in the neo?), by external (kernel-)modules or by some service started during boot. All this leads to X detecting the Touchscreen as a HID (Human Interface Device (== keyboard, mouse, touchpad, tablet, etc.). Nowadays the less you specify the more X detects itself and usually makes perfect use of it. Typical you enter either /dev/input/mice or you leave the option out and the later will become the default. Bus this causes trouble, at least with any touchscreen I had to configure until now. You have to be more precise about what device is referenced on what input. To do this you have to set Option "Device" for the mouse and/or for the Touchscreen. Here are two typical configuration we use at our machines: 1. No mouse, Touchscreen replaces the mouse Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "void" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "elo" Driver "elo" Option "Device" "/dev/input/elo" Option "SendCoreEvents" "true" EndSection 2. Mouse and Touchscreen in paralel Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mouse1" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Touchscreen0" Driver "gentouch" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mouse2" EndSection Anyway, the NEO will usually not have a mouse attached. I'm therefore not exactly sure what to do on the neo. My first guess would be to check out the /dev/input directory, see if there there are multiple mice listed (mouse0...mouseN) or if another device is present indicating the Touchscreen. If you find such a device you could simply try to add "Option "Device" "/dev/input/mouseX" to the InputDevice-Section. If that is not enough, play Hope my lengthy explanation is not complete bullshit... ;-) Regards thomas > > Regards > > Radek > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko v18 - based on 2.6.32
Hi Radek, is it possible to modify the xorg.conf file? At my company we run our system on All-in-One Desktop Machines equipped with Touchscreen. To turn of the mouse enter "void" as the mouse driver instead of "mouse" or "auto". Even if the corresponding module "xserver-xorg-input-void" (i.e. void_drv.so) is not present this will lead to X ignoring the mouse events. BTW. /dev/input/mice is a placeholder to make X read all kinds of mice at once. It is supposed to simplify the configuration as you could replace your PS/2 mouse with a USB one, a touchpad or even a good old serial mouse. But if you know the concrete input of the Touchscreen (cat /proc/bus/input/devices) you can enter this one into the xorg.conf. Regards thomas On Sunday 07 March 2010 22:08:32 Radek Polak wrote: > I wrote: > > - X server and X apps: the touchscreen generates bogus events. E.g. when > > typing on virtual keyboard it often presses wrong keys. If you use X > > applications often, then i dont recomend this image yet. > > I have found the cause of the problem. It seems that /dev/input/mice > generates touchscreen events with 2.6.32. X server then opens both > /dev/input/event1 and /dev/input/mice and gets all event twice. > > You can test it by doing: > > cat /dev/input/mice > > 2.6.29 will not produce any output, while 2.6.32 reacts to touching the > touchscreen. > > For now i have workaround to delete /dev/input/mice during startup [1] > > Btw i have one WSOD report. Anyone else hit it? Is that reproducible? I am > asking because i havent hit any WSOD yet and i would prefer to not release > something that does not work for others. > > Regards > > Radek > > [1] > http://github.com/radekp/qtmoko/commit/fe13cea0647fd9e09e91ef91e6401df2b80f > 8106 > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[ALL] Freerunner GTA02v5 for Sale in Hungary
Dear all, after month and month of trying and always failing at one point I finally gave up on my Freerunner. I've got to admit that I prefer my phone to be unfree, but working (well mostly) right away. For those of you who stay with the FR I've got to offer: - A buzz-fixed GTA02v5, that I bought in November 2008 in Germany. - A second battery that I got during buzz-fix - The Power Adapter - The nice black box it came in I'll keep the parts that are bug-free, that is the Mini-USB, the Stylus, the SD and the Pouch. ;-) The FR is in good condition since I've never really used it as my daily phone. Every try lasted only for a couple of days until it did not answer calls anymore, did not wakeup from suspend, lost SMS etc. - you know... I'd like to receive 100,- EUR for it + Shipping Cost that may apply. I'm located in Hungary (Budapest). Best Regards thomas -- Thomas Otterbein ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QtMoko v15
> I just created another installer-image, Yesterday I had a problem with the original image from Radek. It just ignored my SIM contacts if they started with lower case characters. I reported that on IRC and Radek confirmed that he sees the same effect. However, I've just installed the installer image and the problem is gone. So thank you for doing what ever you did to solve this issue. :-) Best Regards thomas -- Thomas Otterbein ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Congratulation, Wikireader! 7th in Amazon TOP 100
On Thursday 29 October 2009 14:35 Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: > Thomas Otterbein writes: > > On Wednesday 28 October 2009 22:08:00 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172594/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_ > > >e_1_ 3_last > > > > > > Wow, just wow! > > > > > > It's an interesting device, not for me, but quite interesting. > > > > > > What I never expected is such a success. > > > > > > Quite a comparison to the Freerunner's success :) > > > > > > Congratulations, guys! > > > > > > Rui > > > > Hmm, a lot of devices made by Palm, some of them already stone old, > > are the Bestsellers at Amazon? Where is their own Kindle? > > The Kindle is listed as a best-seller, but in a different subcategory > of `electronics'. Actually, it occupies multiple spots in the top-10 > listing in the *overall* `electronics' category, while WikiReader is > #4 in a much more restricted category. Not to downplay whatever > success the WikiReader is seeing, though--I got one, myself, and I'm > very impressed by and happy with it; a few of my technically-minded > friends have remarked critically, merely on a conceptual basis, but > those who have actually seen it (especially the `normal people') have > responded very positively. I do not doubt the value of the device, though it's of no use for me until I get a international version (Hungarian, German), for my kids - or even better a version supporting images, for myself. :-) However I find it a bit miss-placed between the other "PDAs" as they have very little in common, beyond the ability to display pages from Wikipedia. And I'm still under the impression that the other devices are fairly outdated. There are 8 devices produced by Palm between the first 25. And there is also a "Siemens Flip Phone" (i doubt it's PDA capabilities). Siemens sold it's mobile business to BenQ ages ago and even BenQ abandoned it for a couple of years now. Again, this is not criticism on the Wikireader but rather questioning the Amazon Bestseller List as such. However Sean has already mentioned in this thread that the sales numbers are huge, so a high ranking in whatever list is most likely appropriate. ;-) Best Regards thomas -- Thomas Otterbein ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Congratulation, Wikireader! 7th in Amazon TOP 100
On Wednesday 28 October 2009 22:08:00 Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/172594/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_e_1_ >3_last > > Wow, just wow! > > It's an interesting device, not for me, but quite interesting. > > What I never expected is such a success. > > Quite a comparison to the Freerunner's success :) > > Congratulations, guys! > > Rui Hmm, a lot of devices made by Palm, some of them already stone old, are the Bestsellers at Amazon? Where is their own Kindle? Or devices from HTC? Does HP still procude Handhelds at all? Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [all] Don't answer a call by turning FR upside down..
On Friday 28 August 2009 09:48 Niels Heyvaert wrote: > > Shouldn't be very hard but it'd be extremely cool. Integration to a > > distro (SHR maybe :) might be a bit more of a hack (adding GUI to > > enable/disable this feature etc) though.. > > Yes, it does sound like a cool feature, as long as it is turned off by > default :-). > > Question is, is this the right time to add these type of features? > Right, but it's more like an idea yet. However that reminds me of a list of "features" that could be maintained, showing a list of things the phone knows already, does not know yet, are not implemented yet, needs testing, etc. Something like this: Feature| SHR-U | Debian | H1 | Android | ... - Suspend -- ? x ! Deny-call-by-acc +x ? - ! Do-phonecalls pp p p p Legend: + Works reliably - Works with limitations/problems/fridays-only x Not supported ? Unknown ! Test and report please p Planned for the future Of course a history should be kept who has tested a feature on what platform and when, so everyone can decide if the information may be outdated. Something like this: Editor Comments Suspend, SHR-U, 2009-08-28, Tested with Daily build from 2009-08-08. Wifi gone after resume Suspend, Debian, 2009-08-26, Works only two times. Afterwards the FR is frozen. Deny-call-by-acc, Debian, . And so on. Any volunteers? ;-) Regards thomas -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Showroom hosting , roadmap draft & design
On Thursday 27 August 2009 11:16 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Thomas Otterbein wrote: > > Wouldn't it be better to use Debian for the first start? > > - Az Martinez said it does not need any adoption on the distro-side > > - Az Risto said neiter SHR-U nor SHR-T would -at the moment- be > > appropriate for the purpose of the showroom > > http://doodle.com/sd2c8d8snr23eeqq > > I'm not sure if Debian is a smart choice: using official debian repos > will bloat the whole system to cover all 15000+ packages.. And using > only http://pkg-fso.alioth.debian.org/debian/ is not much of use - as I was referring to that repo. Mostly because it's not crowded with too many applications in an "undefined" state. Please don't misunderstand me. I also feel that SHR is the way we'll all be going sooner or later. I love Debian but I use Kubuntu as it provides much more functionality in a much easier to use way. But I'm a developer myself and as such had my share of experience on how long it takes from the first enthusiastic steps until a piece of software runs reliably enough for the people you aim (too) with this. Not to mention our overall experience with stuff from and for OpenMoko. ;-) > most of the packages are at debian repositories already. Ok, openbmap > and pypennotes, mokomaze, remoko are the only ~popular/famous apps in > this repository). > > I really don't know, I let the devels decide what's best. > > r -- Thomas Otterbein ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Showroom hosting , roadmap draft & design
On Thursday 27 August 2009 10:23 Risto H. Kurppa wrote: > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:38 AM, David Reyes Samblas > > Martinez wrote: > > As next stept for the next version, I will say: > > Including Debian(no mod needed) as distro and see how we can > > share/discriminate info of same apps for diferent distros > > (descriptions, pics, vids, comments, packages) > > > And yes, I agree that first to set up it working for one distro first > and then start improving it from there, supporting other distros too. > > I think the question is what distro should be first. SHR yes but > testing or unstable? Wouldn't it be better to use Debian for the first start? - Az Martinez said it does not need any adoption on the distro-side - Az Risto said neiter SHR-U nor SHR-T would -at the moment- be appropriate for the purpose of the showroom I believe using Debian for the basic implementation of the showroom would cut down the amount of work a bit. And since I don't expect the showroom to be working perfectly from the first start (it's software) it might be better to work on a distro that is not evolving as fast as SHR (i think). I mean, data (urls, version numbers, etc.) that has been put into the showrooms database for testing yesterday is most likely still valid tomorrow - if it's about Debian. Best regards thomas -- ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) against HTML e-mail X www.asciiribbon.org / \ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bicycling with OpenMoko
> FR is designed to withstand a droptest of 80cm (iirc) to concrete. There > are no moveable parts inside except battery (which might be a good idea to > add a *thin* layer of foam to fix it for good) and vibrator (and speaker > membranes). > I don't think bicycle vibrations / impact is a big issue. How about motorcyling? I heard that GPS devices designed for motorcyles are not just waterproof but also more robust inside, due to the permanent vibrations a motorcyle produces. However I have occasionally used my old HTC P3300 (Artemis) for navigation and it did not seem to take any harm. To attach it I used stuff from a Medion PNA, that came with an "outdoor kit", namely a "showerproof case" and a holder for bycicles (that fit on my motorcycle too). Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: USB Kernel problem with latest SHR unstable
On Friday 24 April 2009 15:16:38 Nelson Castillo wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 5:42 AM, Thomas Zimmermann > > wrote: > > Am Freitag 24 April 2009 12:20:00 schrieb Robin Paulson: > >> 2009/4/24 Ben Thompson : > >> ok, i'm confused now. why do i want to run this on my host? the > >> problem's with the phone, isn't it? > > > > I don't know why, but the interface name on my host changed. For me it's > > now eth1. > > Check: > > http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/devel/2009-April/005384.html > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community On my Ubuntu 8.10 the shr-unstable behaves exactly as described in the link. The X depends on your number of network cards. I use a notebook which has a cable and a Wifi ethernet adapter named eth0 and eth1. However the Neo becomes eth3 as it connects. I collected the information from the Wiki about USB Networking in a script, which i use until I managed to integrate the Neo better into Ubuntu and it's various network configuration mechanisms. The script has a variable for the interface as the first line. Adapt it to your needs and run it after you have connected your Neo to the USB port. I use "ifconfig" to check out the known network cards and their configuration. Regards thomas No Neo: eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:15:00:22:c5:db inet6 addr: fe80::215:ff:fe22:c5db/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:117175 errors:141 dropped:141 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:9346 errors:0 dropped:5 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:3955 (3.9 KB) TX bytes:4599 (4.5 KB) Interrupt:21 Memory:c840-c8400fff loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) TX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) Neo connected: eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:15:00:22:c5:db inet6 addr: fe80::215:ff:fe22:c5db/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:131173 errors:141 dropped:141 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:10491 errors:0 dropped:5 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:3955 (3.9 KB) TX bytes:4599 (4.5 KB) Interrupt:21 Memory:c840-c8400fff eth3 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1f:11:01:2e:ee inet6 addr: fe80::21f:11ff:fe01:2eee/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:13 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:1564 (1.5 KB) TX bytes:580 (580.0 B) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) TX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) Neo configured with frnet.sh eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:15:00:22:c5:db inet6 addr: fe80::215:ff:fe22:c5db/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:133181 errors:141 dropped:141 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:10667 errors:0 dropped:5 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:3955 (3.9 KB) TX bytes:4599 (4.5 KB) Interrupt:21 Memory:c840-c8400fff eth3 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:1f:11:01:2e:ee inet addr:192.168.0.200 Bcast:0.0.0.0 Mask:255.255.255.0 inet6 addr: fe80::21f:11ff:fe01:2eee/64 Scope:Link UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:46 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:57 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:5546 (5.5 KB) TX bytes:10629 (10.6 KB) loLink encap:Local Loopback inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1 RX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:48 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) TX bytes:2560 (2.5 KB) frnet.sh Description: application/shellscript ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists
Re: FreeRunner, most used distributions
On Friday 13 March 2009 11:06:37 Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: > Hello, I was wondering: anyone has an idea or stats about which > distributions are used by the FreeRunners out there? Something like: > > === > Om 2007.x: 50% > Om 2008.x: 20% > SHR: 10% > [...] > Other hacks: 5% > === > > > Regards, > Juan Lucas I created a survey once: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p2ZQdcRSVg9XfYLwBVsZicg and a Map with FR-Locations, so a potential buyer could have a look at it before buying one: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=115352610340426907999.000461ec26b35ac3fad63&z=7 Both, the survey and the map are freely available to anyone and of course also to the bad guys that may be using the given data to send you offers for other mobile phones. :-) Which may be the reason why participation did not reach a level in any way comparable to responses on some postings on the mailing list. So it might not representative at all. For example it seems that there is only one FR sold to the US while not even one is available around Taipeh. ;-) To take part in the survey use this link: http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=p2ZQdcRSVg9XfYLwBVsZicg I believe after taking part you get a nice summary, showing pretty graphs with percentages. At least I can see it but I couldn't manage to share it to anyone not logged in with a Google account. However I could print it to a file and publish it here if someone is interessted. Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [All] FR survey and locations
> > To take part in the survey click here: > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=p2ZQdcRSVg9XfYLwBVsZicg > > I can't answer the question "What band does your provider use", > because mine uses both 900 and 1800. But the FR uses only one of them at the same time, doesn't it? And of course you could add two records. I mean in case the answers to the other questions would change depending on the band you use. Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[All] FR survey and locations
Dear all, questions about buying a FR now or later, waiting for this or that software and using this or that distribution arrive on a regular basis on this list. I read them all although I'm usually quite unhappy with the answers that happen to arrive on such a mailing. IMHO they represent -naturally- rather the authors personal liking of a certain distro than a neutral perspective on the most common issues (buzz, echo, battery, etc.). I understand that it depends a lot on the concrete device (revision) one uses and the circumstances (location, provider, gsm band, etc.) it's used in and -of course- on the personal expectations. So here's my approach to get the most urgent questions answered by a large group of users while allowing to take the decession on a most neutral base of data. I created a survey with the most important questions - at least to me but I'm happy to "optimize" it to make it usefull for a larger group of people. The questions are: What revisions of the FR are are out there and in use? What distro is used at the most? How many are (still) suffering from buzz/echo? Is there any indication that these problems are located or more frequent in certain corners of the world? The survey is a simple Google-Form. You can see the any entered records as a sheet here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p2ZQdcRSVg9XfYLwBVsZicg To take part in the survey click here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=p2ZQdcRSVg9XfYLwBVsZicg I also created a Google-Map where everyone can enter the location of his or her FR, so people, who would like to see and/or touch it before buying their own, could find the closest FR-owner http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=115352610340426907999.000461ec26b35ac3fad63&z=7 The Google-Form offers a kind of summary too, which may show some usefull statistics if enough FR-owners take part in the survey. However it cannot, for whatever reason, be made public. If someone is interessted I'll publish the summary somewhere else then. Thanks in advance for your support! Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Questions about the usability of GTA02
> Maybe we could setup some kind of map where you could register, so if > someone wants to try a FR it would be easier to find someone close? Here it is: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=115352610340426907999.000461ec26b35ac3fad63&z=17 I've already entered the daily location of my FR including it's version and distro. Everyone is allowed to view and edit it. Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Conflict when several apps use the accelerometers?
> Fully exclusive access is not a solution. It just defeats the purpose of > multitasking. Actually I think the window manager should dispatch > accelerator events, like it dispatches the mouse events. Only focused Okay, that's basically what I meant with "deamon". A piece of software that's responsible for reading the input of a device and forward pre-computed information as events to whoever might be concerned. Side-effect: If the accelerometer get's replaced by another model only this part has to be rewritten and not all software using the feature. While writing these lines: I think Gestures (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gestures) may do exactly this already. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Conflict when several apps use the accelerometers?
> How about running two apps then, if they're both using accelerometers and > each requires its own orientation? Perhaps a "Accelero-Deamon"? Applications could register for receiving, probably even already pre-processed, events. And an application could also request exclusive access in which case the others would just not receive further events. So, problem's solved! Could we please get a working demo by tomorrow? ;-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Conflict when several apps use the accelerometers?
Hi all, > > I plan to have a toggling script for use in the desktop icon, instead of > > a starter script. > > This is the sort of thing that might be useful to have on the illume top > shelf. autototate on/off, and "rotate now" when auto is off. > > Rotation is useful with maps. It depends on what the region look like. > Also, it is easier to but the phone down on the long edge in a car. > I can see how autorotation would be a problem in a game. Pingus works > in either orientation, but several guys walk of the cliffs while the > screen repaints. to my opinion the default auto-rotation software should have some signaling mechanism that keeps it from doing it's job while a certain software is active. You can experience this with the later versions of MPlayer. It tells the Screensaver not to activate during movie playback. I figure the screensaver modules of Desktop-Manager must have appropriate interfaces to accomplish that behaviour. For example if a program would like to gain exclusive control over the accelerometers it could create a certain file (e.g. /var/run/donotrotate_illdoitmyself). The default rotation software checks for this file and while the file exists it loosen it's grip of the meters. This would solve the issue of concurrent access too. As far as I know the file could be created in a way so that even when the software crashes completely it is removed and therefore allow the original rotation-software to reactivate reliably. Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid networking question
> only sense when a usb networking capable device is plugged in -- so > allow-hotplug seems the only sensible option, to me, that is. Yes, but you both leave the OpenSource-Factor out. The (K)Ubuntu NetworkManager does not accept the allow-hotplug as a sign to keep it's fingers out of the interface configuration. The author has only considered "auto" as a possible option (at least I guess it's that simple). So sensible, correct or useless - it's the solution to the issue "The FR cannot be used under KDE with running NetworkManager" which seems to be a quite common problem. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid networking question
> You should only use "auto usb0" or "allow-hotplug usb0" but not both at > the same time. For me it only works with auto and not hotplug but don't > ask why. ;) Yes but it seems that entering both does not do any harm. The networking configuration uses the latest statement (allow-hotplug) while stupid NetworkManager only looks for "auto" to release his grip on the devices. So both get what they need to work properly and everyone is happy. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid networking question
> Which version of Kubuntu are you running ? 8.10 > > I seem to remember some people commenting that with Intrepid (8.10) that > stopped working, though I've not attempted to use this on my Intrepid > laptop yet (I just do the ifconfig by hand). yes I had the same issue but the described method solved it, at least for me. However I just got tired of continously running a whole bunch of commands just to get my phone -trying to avoid the term "expensive brick" here ;-) - connected to the internet and ready to receive updates. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stupid networking question
FYI: On my kubuntu (ubuntu with KDE installed by default) using the KDE NetworkManager I followed the advices on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Debian.2C_Ubuntu_and_others but insereted "auto usb0" into /etc/network/interfaces as suggested by arne. It looks now like that: auto lo iface lo inet loopback # freerunner auto usb0 allow-hotplug usb0 iface usb0 inet static address 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.192 post-up /etc/network/freerunner start pre-down /etc/network/freerunner stop After a reboot (NetworkManager did not want to play well i.e. did not adopt to the changes) I get "Device usb0: unmanaged" and everything works as expected: My FR get's configured by /etc/network/freerunner and my (W)LAN-connections a correctly handled by NetworkManager. I guess this solution solves the issue for Ubuntu and all it's derivates too. Probably for all KDE-Installations as it seems that the key is to make the NetworkManager ignore the usb0-Interface. Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Default IP Address on All Distributions
Hi Helge, I largely agree with you. Yes of course every needs to be widely configurable. To me the phone be able to be confiured to a range starting from fixed IP and just sitting there waiting for it's masters orders to booking automatically into known WLANs and downloading updates without any user interaction. Between these two extremes there are numerous layers of asking for permission/confirmation, just notifying me of something, etc., which of course should also be configurable. Probably a standard for "convenience levels" would help to describe what the phone should do or not do. Or usage scenarios like "I'm just a user on holiday, trying to find the next free wifi hotspot" or "I'm the companies administrator and believe me I know what I'm doing". Applications or the phone as such could adhere to this and behave appropriate. Regards thomas On Tuesday 06 January 2009 12:03 Helge Hafting wrote: > Thomas Otterbein wrote: > > Now when it comes to "real users" I believe the discussion about the best > > fixed IP-Number or a pool of dynamic numbers is far too short-sighted. As > > a true linux user by hard for many year now I have no problem in running > > a couple of commands to connect my Freerunner to my machine and configure > > it's internet connection to get some updates. However on the long run, if > > I will have to continue doing it like that I consider it a confession of > > failure. > > Sure. The default should "just work". And there should be > configurability for those with different needs. Such as updating 30 > company phones all connected to the same usb hub... > > > M$ and Apple are successful with their devices because users do not have > > to care at all about IP-Numbers or editing /etc/resolv.conf. Neither do > > today's > > And they "fail" because you usually can't do anything out of the > ordinary. Connect just one phone to the PC at a time, please. Connect > two phones to each other with a usb cable? Why would anyone want that? > A networked phone game that doesn't need to call into one of our servers > - where is the money in that . . . > > > Linux-Users as the vast majority is using DHCP on their > > DSL-(WiFi)-Routers They plug it in or move into a certain location and > > things just happen as expected. > > > > Believe me I don't like the side effects that come with all this > > automatisms, which is why I bought the freerunner so I have the freedom > > to change it. However as I sit in front of my desktop day by day already > > strangling with a more or less constant level of "configuration problems" > > (network gone, faulty acpi, xorg update broke screen resolution, etc.). I > > would really love to have my phone "just work" sometime in the relatively > > near future. > > I agree that it should "just work" as far as possible. And the expert > user can always make changes precisely because this is linux. > > Still, the way to "just works" is to use existing standards as > much as possible. A fixed IP address is a last resort. Use that only if > we have to. If this phone (or the next one) makes it to mass markets, > then there will be families with several phones. It may be convenient > to charge & update them at the same time from the same PC. Your friend > with the same phone might visit. You may want to surf the net at the > same time. It'd be nice if all this "just works" too, > and it won't when all phones share a fixed address. > > Running DHCP on the PC's usb interface is one way to make this case > "just work". Combining link-local addresses with NAT is perhaps another > way. A fixed address won't do the trick. > > Either way, some software has to be set up on the PC. But that is OK, > even windows people are used to installing a "driver CD" in order > to connect their new phone to the computer. If this software then > allows plugging in all your phones at the same time, so much the better! > > > For example a user friendly but still linux-like phone could ask me: > > "Hey, while you already have decided to go on the internet (via usb or > > wifi or gprs, it's my decision and not limited by design flaws) shouldn't > > I download the latest updates in the background?" > > or > > "Um, I sense your bluetooth-enabled desktop is nearby. Shall I quickly > > sync your appointments and contacts with your favourite OpenSync-enabled > > PIM-Suite (or even with nasty Outlook)?" > > Do this or don't do this. Make it a setup option. > But please - don&
Re: Default IP Address on All Distributions
> wrote: > > fla...@correo.ugr.es wrote: > >>> Sure. And if we go that way, why not use the proper way of setting a > >>> link-local address? > >>> * Pick a random address > >>> * check that it is free (arp, ping,...) > >>> * take it. > >>> > >>> That has a good chance of working, even for those who > >>> routinely connect two phones to the same pc at the same time. > >>> > >>> Helge Hafting > >> > >> I'm not sure to have fully understood you, but I like having the phone > >> always on the same address. > > > > There was a suggestion of using link-local addresses. > > If we do that, then we had better do it properly, because you > > aren't supposed to grab the same link-local address every time. If that > > is a problem, the solution is to not use link-local addresses. > > > > As long as you have one phone, a fixed IP address works well. If you > > have two or more, it is better if they are different or resolves the > > colission automatically. And then we might as well use existing > > standards. But perhaps there aren't that many people > > managing several phones from one pc. > > > > Helge Hafting > > Certainly there will be far less, proportionally, with Openmoko success. > If Openmoko succeeds - which I presume we all want - then we, the linux > hackers, will be the minority of users. The community as it exists right > now cannot be considered the long-term target userbase. The more things > deviate from 'just works' the more Joe Smartphone-user will consider broken > when he can't figure it out. I'm not saying "dumb it down", just > reiterating my mantra of "simple working defaults". > > I think we need to set a default IP pair in a /30 subnet or at least > designate a subnet NOT commonly used, and UI network controls can allow to > alter them at need. (or for those who perversely eschew UIs on a > touchscreen phone, you can edit the config :) For 'backward-compatibility' > (read: our convenience ;) I suggest 192.168.0.202/30 on the FR, .201 on > host - machines with .200 can still communicate on this subnet. But my gut > tells me we need a clean break and a clean subnet, like 10.19.73.0/24 or > 10.79.77.0/24... ;) > > Something that works for a linux hacker works for us, something that works > for the average smartphone user works for Openmoko. But by virtue of who > and where we are, we can influence this and hopefully end up with something > that just works. > > j Now when it comes to "real users" I believe the discussion about the best fixed IP-Number or a pool of dynamic numbers is far too short-sighted. As a true linux user by hard for many year now I have no problem in running a couple of commands to connect my Freerunner to my machine and configure it's internet connection to get some updates. However on the long run, if I will have to continue doing it like that I consider it a confession of failure. M$ and Apple are successful with their devices because users do not have to care at all about IP-Numbers or editing /etc/resolv.conf. Neither do today's Linux-Users as the vast majority is using DHCP on their DSL-(WiFi)-Routers They plug it in or move into a certain location and things just happen as expected. Believe me I don't like the side effects that come with all this automatisms, which is why I bought the freerunner so I have the freedom to change it. However as I sit in front of my desktop day by day already strangling with a more or less constant level of "configuration problems" (network gone, faulty acpi, xorg update broke screen resolution, etc.). I would really love to have my phone "just work" sometime in the relatively near future. For example a user friendly but still linux-like phone could ask me: "Hey, while you already have decided to go on the internet (via usb or wifi or gprs, it's my decision and not limited by design flaws) shouldn't I download the latest updates in the background?" or "Um, I sense your bluetooth-enabled desktop is nearby. Shall I quickly sync your appointments and contacts with your favourite OpenSync-enabled PIM-Suite (or even with nasty Outlook)?" Sorry for pouring out all that stuff here but I felt the urgent need to try to refocus on the efforts. I know it's a lot of work to which I haven't contributed much (yet), but if the Freerunner is supposed do revolutionize the mobile world it needs to do things better or smarter or at leased as good but with more freedom than it's competitors (Windows Mobile, IPhone, Blackberry from my point of view). Regards thomas ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenVibe is out
> A completely new era for telephone sex :-) What a pity that the FR doesn't have a camera module (yet)... Come to think of it an apache web server would be useful too, so users of the FR could serve their clients on the run. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
