Neo 1973 For Sale

2009-02-20 Thread Kevin Dean
Hey guys.

I'm selling a Neo1973 on eBay and thought some people here might be
interested in snagging it up.

The listing can be found at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=270347654193

It says US, Canada and Europe but I'm actually willing to ship
anywhere in the world. Please see the listing for more info and if
there are any questions feel free to ask either here or on eBay.
Thanks.

-Kevin Dean

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Neo 1973 For Sale

2009-02-20 Thread Kevin Dean
That's a great question. :P I'll check when I get home tonight and post here.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote:


 Which board revision is it ?

 Angus


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Neo 1973 For Sale

2009-02-20 Thread Kevin Dean
Thanks for the patience. :) This is a GTA01Bv4. It was a unit sold
during the 1973's public sale.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Kevin Dean ke...@foreverdean.info wrote:
 That's a great question. :P I'll check when I get home tonight and post here.

 On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 3:30 PM, Angus Ainslie nyt...@openmoko.org wrote:


 Which board revision is it ?

 Angus


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What is the right place to discuss Qtopia on Openmoko?

2008-07-11 Thread Kevin Dean
Plugging a Freerunner up via USB to a Debian system while running this
image doesn't appear to charge. Is this a purely visual thing, or is
Qtopia unable to charge a Freerunner? I'm assuming that since the
other software can, this is a Qtopia thing?

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Randy S. wrote:
 Because it seems to make the FR the closest to actually usable, I am
 using the Qtopia v4.3.2 image and have run into some issues. Where is
 the proper place to discuss these things?  Here in this forum, or in a
 Qtopia forum? Thx!

 I think here is fine. otherwise there is a qtopia-interest mailing list:
 http://lists.trolltech.com/qtopia-interest/
 or there are qtopia forums at qtopia.net



 --
 Lorn 'ljp' Potter
 Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What is the right place to discuss Qtopia on Openmoko?

2008-07-11 Thread Kevin Dean
Attempting to launch the media player caused Qtopia to restart. Three times.

Mp3 files on SD don't appear in the media player's lists, but they DO
appear in Documents. Clicking on a mp3 file gives a media engine not
configured error.

The POWER button being held activates the Reset/Restart menu, but
releasing the button causes it to close. I need to hold down POWER and
press the button I want.

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:55 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Valerio Valerio wrote:
 Hi Lorn,

 great work with Qtopia image, it works fine in my Freerunner, but I
 found some problems:

 1- I don't get the call sound in the speaker;
 What do you mean by 'call sound'?


 2 - The Bluetooth keyboard seems to not input data to the applications
 (I test it in sms and in notes).

 Keep the good work :)



 Cheers,
 --
 Valério Valério

 http://www.valeriovalerio.org


 

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 --
 Lorn 'ljp' Potter
 Software Engineer, Systems Group, Trolltech, a Nokia company


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Number of GTA02s ordered as of 10 Jul 2008

2008-07-10 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 12:36 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My gut says OpenMoko first mass production run was approx
 1,000 to 1,500.


I think you're dramatically low-balling it. You're basing that on the
number of phones ordered, but aren't factoring in the number shipped
to resellers who have the item in stock but haven't sold it to a
customer yet, the number in transit to those retailers and the
distribution centers (one can assume that they're producing are a rate
faster than they're shipping to customers), the number put into
people's hands as test equipment for major media outlets,
universities and the like. I'm willing to bet that, like Koolu, there
are people or organizations with devices that aren't in end-user hands
yet - an Android based Freerunner like the W.E. Phone (for instance)
doesn't exist yet, but it's safe to say they're developing it on some
form of hardware.

Realistically speaking, the number of people with Freerunner's in
their hands don't matter too much. The only reason I care at all about
how many devices Openmoko fabricated is to know if they're generating
revenue to be secure in a future product line. The number of devices
produced doesn't correlate the the number of community members (one
can assume there are device owners who will never join the OM
community and that there are members without devices) and the number
of users with devices doesn't correlate to Openmoko's profitability.
Openmoko earns profit on devices that end up in closets and warehouses
just the same.

And... A bit more bluntly... I think there's a reason that the sales
figures haven't been released. :)

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: [qtopia on freerunner] - What files do I have to download?

2008-07-10 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Get the Qtopia flash image for FIC Neo Freerunner (gta02) file instead.
 http://www.qtopia.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=6


That image is the one that contains a tar.gz image of the rootfs, not
a jffs2 image.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Reviews?

2008-07-10 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:52 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Are you saying a neo1973 is more reliable then a freerunner?

As of this moment, I have never Qtopia on my Freerunner. Lorn says
there are Qtopia images for Freerunner, but I haven't seen them.
Because, for my use, there is no reliably functioning software for the
Freerunner but there IS for the 1973, yes, as of this moment and those
conditions, I prefer the 1973 for daily use.

IF (and that's a pretty hefty caveat) I were given a working Qtopia
image for Freerunner, my opinion would change. There's nothing wrong
with the Freerunner hardware, in fact I prefer it for the fade effect
and improved battery life. The problem is ENTIRELY that the GTK
2007.02, ASU and FSO images (100% of the software I've seen running on
Freerunner) doesn't meet my needs of decently reliable phone calls and
media player capability for podcasts.

The Freerunner is better hardware. Qtopia is better software.

 Is qtopia on GTA01 more stable than on GTA02?

I've never used Qtopia on the Freerunner, but if it worked as well or
better, the 1973 would find itself buried under a pile of papers and
beer bottles on my desk, except for testing of images. Qtopia on
Freerunner would rock, until one of the other images started working
and tapping the wealth that is the broader Linux community.

 If so I'll put off buying a freerunner for the time being.
 I use qtopia aswell and my neo1973 is my primary phone.
 There's life in the old device yet.

The 1973 is a nice device. The problems 1973 users might face come
from what seems to be an abandonment by Openmoko Inc. There's the
power controller firmware that doesn't seem to have been corrected,
and the fact that the ASU developers don't seem to be developing on
1973. There are community projects, like the FSO and the SHR that will
be targeting the 1973 and Freerunner both, and there's Qtopia which,
for the moment, I've only see functioning on 1973 (I'd like to rectify
this... seriously!) so 1973 users aren't screwed at all.


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: questions about our mailinglists

2008-07-08 Thread Kevin Dean
Not everyone uses Gmail, but that said, most modern mail clients offer
the same kind of sorting.

Personally, I like modularlity. I'm subscribed to every Openmoko list
except the kernel devel one, but I can see very compelling reasons why
someone might be interested in say, not being on community but
subscribing to device-owners.

As far as the tags in the subject... I think it's a bad idea. If there
is need of distinguishing which part of the list a specific message
is part of, it really should have it's own list.

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Dustin Knie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 FWIW I prefer the mailing list subject lines as they are.

 [openmoko-users] preppended to the subject line just adds clutter and
 reduces the useful description of the subject that can be used in
 that line. Only so much fits in the list of messages in the mail-
 client's window and [openmoko-users] isn't as useful as Bug with
 libfoo.so.1 and SMS sent from Nokia 800. Endianness problem?

 Prefixing [openmoko-users] or whatever can cause quite a bit of mess
 if messages are cross-posted between lists or redirected from one
 list to the other (this shouldn't be on -dev, so I'm replying to -
 users).

 I'm of the same feeling.  Using GMail for lists and setting up rules to
 auto-label incoming mail removes the need for that entirely, and would
 further clutter up stuff. It's a annoying to see openmoko-community
 [openmoko-community] Subject ...

 Just my 2 cents.

 Dustin

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: T-Mobile with ASU on GTA01?

2008-07-08 Thread Kevin Dean
I've not used the ASU on a 1973, but I know I've never been able to
place calls using the ASU on Freerunner and I use T-Mobile in the USA
with the exception of the first image released.

I've always assumed ASU just didn't work.

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Chris Hessing [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 Hopefully I get my terminology right.

 Late last year there were some issues with the T-Mobile SIMs and the
 GTA01.  I got side-tracked on my GTA01 efforts and never sent my phone
 in for the firmware update.  A few days ago I tried an OpenMoko build
 from late April, and found it worked with the T-Mo SIM.  For fun, I also
 played with the FSO image, and had no problem.

 When I flashed a current ASU image (if my terminology is correct, the
 ASU image is the Qt/X11 image), it didn't work.  The signal strength
 indication would change from time-to-time, but when I dialed it just
 said dialing, and the phone on the other end didn't ring.  (There was
 also no indication that the phone had registered with the T-Mobile network.)

 Has anyone seen this?  Should I even be expecting it to work?

 Thanks!

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Reviews?

2008-07-07 Thread Kevin Dean
Yeah, I learned a hard lesson. :(

Speaking very honestly, I don't use my Freerunner in daily use but I
use my 1973 with Qtopia since it's pretty stable and functional. There
are several ways to get involved with Openmoko development without a
Freerunner, like in Qemu or Xepher or whatnot. I'm sure Openmoko would
be happy to take your money in a few months just as they'd take it
today.

Today, the Freerunner is intended for developers not daily use, but
it'll get there in one of several forms over the next few months. :)

On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 7:55 PM, nickd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Looks like his server hosting the images suffered a hard-drive failure:
 http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/This-Site-Broken-Articles-And-Learning-Python.html

 Milos Mandaric wrote:
 Have look at this one
 http://www.monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner-1.html
 from Kevin Dean. I am not sure why the photos are missing.


 On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 16:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi all,

 Does anyone know if there are any good reviews floating around for the
 FreeRunner yet?  (And if not, does someone who already has theirs want
 to write one?)  I'm a college student so money's very tight and I'm
 trying to justify purchasing one, but I want to know exactly what I'm
 getting first (in terms of functionality).  Specifically, I'm
 wondering about:

 Cell phone functionality:  Is full cellphone functionality (i.e.
 sending and receiving calls/SMS) currently working stably?

 Internet connectivity:  At what stage of development is internet
 connectivity, both through wifi and the cellular network?  Is there a
 decently functional browser yet?

 SSH:  Related to above, is SSH working?

 Audio:  How functional is the FreeRunner as a PMP?  OGG support is a
 must and mp3 and FLAC would be good.

 Development  portability:  How easy is it to develop/compile new
 programs for the platform and how easy is it to port existing
 applications?

 Misc:  Battery life for normal usage?  Is there a JVM yet?
 Ruggedness?  Compatibility with ATT SIMs?

 If anyone has any input on these, it's greatly appreciated.  Feel free
 to e-mail me privately if you don't feel it'd be interesting to anyone
 else on the list.

 Thanks,
 Evan
 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Assassin visiting the morgue...

2008-07-06 Thread Kevin Dean
How about Morbid and Macabre?

On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 Some recent projects names are a little bit 'haloweenistisc': assassin,
 morgue. Using them all along the year, on a dark device, argh...

 If this vein is pursued, please note that Alzheimer, Ebola, JackTheRipper
 are already reserved at sourceforge.

 What a chance :-)

 Gilles


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: rationale for ASU (and change from GTK to Qt)

2008-06-27 Thread Kevin Dean
http://gettingstartedopenmoko.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/openmoko-software-update

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Can someone explain the rationale for the decision
 to switch from the original GTK based OpenMoko
 to QT based version known as April Software Update (ASU)?

 As an observer, it's my impression that ASU
 represents a significant architectural change
 that somehow, Wham! Bang! just happened.

 Transparency is a virtue. g

 Ron K. Jeffries
 http://www.retaggr.com/Card/rjeffries




 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Heller versus DC

2008-06-26 Thread Kevin Dean
My apologies, auto-completion took the wrong li.

That was not meant for the list. I really need to stop using Gmail. :(

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:58 PM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 though i don't understand how this is related in any way the use of om
 phones, the first thing crossing my mind was: finally.
 anyway, i think it is _ totally_ off topic

 On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:52:54 +0200, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 The Supreme Court made a ruling today on the Heller versus DC case and
 affirmed for the first time since 1791 when the second amendement
 passed - the right to own guns is an INDIVIDUAL right of all
 Americans. Of course, it wasn't super special, since it did make it
 clear that some prohibition is acceptable. :(

 The scary part... The ruling was 5-4. The second amendement, which
 says pretty damn clearly shall not be infringed was interpreted by 5
 people (who beat 4) as meaning can be infringed, as long as it's not
 totally infringed. Once more vote for No and the second amendment
 would have been abolished.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: FR with embedded projector and LASER keyboard

2008-06-26 Thread Kevin Dean
I strongly doubt that future versions will have a laser keyboard and
projector. That said, the laser keyboard exists and you can buy a
Bluetooth one.

And since when did the freerunner run Mac OS X? :P

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Atilla Filiz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Seemed fake to me.

 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Francesco Cat [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 ?? Is this the first fork of an open hardware project???

 if it is a fork, what about implementing laser keyboard and projector
 in the next GTA? :P


 2008/6/26 Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  http://koolu.com/WE-Phone/GET-YOUR-FREE-W.E.-SMART-PHONE.html
  The current generation of the phone does not include the laser
  keyboard or built in projector. The Laser keyboard is sold separatey.
  The next generation of the phone will incorporate the laser keyboard
  and tiny LED projector built in.
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 --
 -
 Bu mesaj UTF-8 ile kodlanmıştır
 -
 Atilla Filiz
 Technische Universiteit Eindhoven
 Embedded Systems, Master's Programme
 
 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

2008-06-26 Thread Kevin Dean
It's interesting... Your pictures are on a wood background too. :)

I'm jealous... I didn't get a green band around my box... It's so
fitting with the ASU theme. :)

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:49 PM, Simon Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Peter Strapp wrote:
 I sure hope it's for sale as I have a UPS tracking number from Truebox
 (UK Openmoko Distributor) that says that it has been collected from
 them. I'm hoping it will be in my hands tomorrow.

 Their website also states that the first batch of Freerunners have been
 sent to customers
 (https://www.truebox.co.uk/trueboxportal/index.php?wk=Openmoko).

 First boot!
 (sorry, I couldn't resist)

 I received my FreeRunner from Truebox today :)

 A few very quick pictures here:
 http://www.snmoore.net/openmoko/pictures/freerunner/

 Cheers,
 Simon

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Best Image to run on the neo1973 these days?

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
ScaredyCat's images are probably the most functional of all of them at
this point, especially since they will auto-detect the gllin .ipk if
it's installed on your device and it includes TangoGPS.

I don't use GPS on my Neo and what I personally run is Qtopia because
it's media player can fast forward, though I think they've pulled
their image down from their site.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:05 AM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi folks,

 What do you recommend I should run on my neo1973 these days, image-
 wise?  I've been usually lagging way behind with keeping up to date
 with Scaredycats releases, but I'm aware there are other images out
 there making the rounds .. so what are your guys' experience with this
 so far?  Is the ASU the one to run, for GPS and phone-call making, or
 is there something better?

 Right now I'd be very happy if I could get GPS working, for good, and
 as well use the phone for calls .. mostly I've had it around to do
 development work, but it seems that the image makers out there might
 be pushing things in interesting territories already .. so how about
 it folks, got a recommendation?

 ;
 --
 Jay Vaughan





 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: ATT SIM problems

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:26 AM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That sounds like yes to me...  This would be a very important issue for
 me, as I'm definitely going to have to use ATT.

 On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:01 PM, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 11:41 AM, Daniel Dadap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Sorry if this question has been asked before, but I have noticed that
  there seem to be issues with ATT SIM cards and the Neo1973.
  (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=666)
 
  Have they been resolved in the FreeRunner?
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 

 It looks like there's more information on this bug here
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates, scroll down to
 Delivery of a GSM firmware update for the 3G SIM bug. From this I'd
 think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would know more.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: warranty

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
Sounds pretty final to me.

14 day DOA on individual units.
28 day DOA on 10-pack purchases.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is this the final word on warranties or are you still trying to work that
 out?

 On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, steve wrote:

 10 pack is a 28 day DOA.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ajit Natarajan
 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:41 PM
 To: community@lists.openmoko.org
 Subject: warranty

 Steve/Michael,

 Sorry to be a bother, but could you update us on the U.S. warranty situation
 for the FR?  I understand that there is a 14-day DOA warranty.
  Is that it?  Or will we getting a 1-year or some such?

 Please let us know if there will be a difference in warranty between the 10
 pack and individual unit purchases.

 Thanks.

 Ajit

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: warranty

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
Realized that looked confrontational. :) I should have phrased it
There didn't seem to be any indicaiton that this would or has
changed, do you have reason to doubt that this policy is the official
one?

-Kevin

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sounds pretty final to me.

 14 day DOA on individual units.
 28 day DOA on 10-pack purchases.

 On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Dave O'Connor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Is this the final word on warranties or are you still trying to work that
 out?

 On Wed, 25 Jun 2008, steve wrote:

 10 pack is a 28 day DOA.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ajit Natarajan
 Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 1:41 PM
 To: community@lists.openmoko.org
 Subject: warranty

 Steve/Michael,

 Sorry to be a bother, but could you update us on the U.S. warranty situation
 for the FR?  I understand that there is a 14-day DOA warranty.
  Is that it?  Or will we getting a 1-year or some such?

 Please let us know if there will be a difference in warranty between the 10
 pack and individual unit purchases.

 Thanks.

 Ajit

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
The rumors of the Freerunner being on sale have been greatly exagerated.

From what I've heard, SOME distributors have been notified that
Freerunner devices are being shipped to those retailers. Retailers
need to have a product in stock in order to sell it on the day it is
released, that is what is happening now. The Freerunners are being
shipped to them.

For the end user, absoluely nothing has changed since yesterday.

The reason the Openmoko web store hasn't been updated yet is because
the Freerunner isn't for sale yet. :)

That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of
that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of
anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype
going...

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 nerdyH writes Openmoko has begun shipping its Linux-based, open source Neo
 Freerunner phone to five newly announced distributors, in Germany, France,
 and India, says the company.

 /me checks Gmail and finds nothing on the announce list so heart
 recommences beating.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: warranty

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Arne Zachlod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 in Germany (or the whole EU) every reseller has to give a warranty for
 private customers from 2 years. i can't imagine that any reseller will
 sell only one unit if there is no longer warranty option.

That's why I think resellers in Europe outnumber resellers in other
areas. By using retailers, Openmoko doesn't have to inflate the cost
to the rest of the world. That way, only the people in the EU have to
bear the extra costs that such warranties incur. This is just my
speculation, of course. the great thing about the free market is that
if people want longer warranties, they're free to purchase from a
reseller who provides that. :)

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: FSO Image gets it right

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 4:50 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Graeme Gregory wrote:

 Well I have seen the future and the future is FSO.

 For the first time I have been able to make and receive phone calls on a
 gta02 without hassle. GTK+ software could no do this, qtopia software
 cannot do this.

 ermmm.. Qtopia makes calls just fine on both devices.


Excellent! I already know the answer, but where can I get a Qtopia
image for the Freerunner? :P Sorry, just have to poke at you on that
one. :) I run Qtopia on my 01 and kinda leave the freerunenr on my
home desk since I can't be seperated from my Podcasts. :)

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: ATT SIM problems

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
Actually, this bug has been closed as far as ATT SIMS. There was a
firmware update that corrected the issue (had to be done by an
Openmoko employee). The bug is still open because it's a more generic
3G cards don't work and there are some problems with 02 and
Vodaphone cards.

The last I've heard from American ATT customers, the firmware update
corrected the problem.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Daniel Dadap [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks, Vinc. What worried me was the fact that the trouble ticket
 isn't closed yet, and there's no positive confirmation that ATT SIMs
 work now that I have found. I e-mailed Michael; hopefully he'll have
 the answers.

 (Also, sorry to everybody for posting twice. For whatever reason my
 message didn't go through when I posted it the first time. I re-posted
 several hours later, only to discover that my original message made it
 several hours after that.)

 From: Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 It looks like there's more information on this bug here
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates, scroll down to
 Delivery of a GSM firmware update for the 3G SIM bug. From this I'd
 think [EMAIL PROTECTED] would know more.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the
device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is
VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer
grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is
intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko
platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will
be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner
before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't
there because this stage is intended for people writing those
features.

That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around
at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early
stage too. :)

Point by point:

**
old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station,
eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me
if they (openmoko) got the chips for free, as they are so ancient - no
EDGE, GPRS w/ 2KB/s. Openmoko is likely the last buyer.
**

This may actually be truish. From what I understand, 3G GSM modules
are essentially 100% closed, non-free or restrictive. Take your
pick. Openmoko's goals are openness and the current landscape doesn't
allow that to be met with 3G. This is why there's a potentially
ancient system. The Model T got people around. :) This ancient GSM
module makes calls and sends SMS messages just fine.

The battery thing is being dealt with, it's a matter of the software.

***
audio quailty on the headphone is lousy due to a hardware bug - as mp3
player useless
***

A bug I reported (http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1377) means it
fails at being a personal audio player for now. The headset that came
in the box with the 1973 and the Freerunner aren't particularly good,
but that's ENTIRELY a subjective thing. I connect my 1973 to my car's
AUX input and it sounds just fine. The issue he has is with the
headset, not the jack. Either way, his assessment is true - headset
quality and audio issues make using the Freerunner as a DAP impossible
today.

***
headphone only mono. i.e. only one side works
***

This is wrong, mmontour corrected it it on Slashdot.

***
headphone unusable for making phone calls due to EM-interferences
***

Not sure if it's EM interference, but all the software I've used
simply couldn't route the GSM stuff to the headset. I'm assuming it's
a software issue but this is true in my experience, the included
headset can't be used to make calls.

***
no bluetooth headset support
***

Again, a software issue. There is a bluetooth profit to play audio
through headsets, I'm assuming that can work on Openmoko hardware but
hasn't been adapted to do that yet.

***
no bluetooth keyboard support (dropped since last version)
***

Software issue. ScaredyCat's images do it quite easily. But the ASU
(latest version) and the FSO do not.

***
graphics sluggish and even slower than Neo 1973 despite 2D accel chip
***

Fact.

***
GPS has 10 minutes TTFF - yes, in 2008 where every cheapo GPS gets a
fix in 45secs
***

I've not gotten a fix EVER on the GPS - it's a software issue, I
assume because I've gotten the GPS hardware to respond while poking at
it.

***
developer community alienated by Lauer  Co. GNOME knew why they
kicked Rasterman out.
***

Actually, this one might be trolling. I don't know about social
politics, and frankly don't care. True or not, it's not relevant to
the hardware sucking or being amazing.

***
so called ASU software is pre-alpha and reinventing the wheel once again
***

Fact.



On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 6:17 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That said, Openmoko is getting a lot of attention right now because of
 that article, so it's probably a very good thing to have some form of
 anticipation building message or teaser product there to keep the hype
 going...

 Not all of it good, If anyone has mod points on slashdot can they mod
 this guy down? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=595147cid=23939209
 He's obviously registered that account just now to troll on the project.


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Slashdot post but no web store?

2008-06-25 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 7:08 PM, Yorick Moko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It states in the wiki (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner)
 clearly:
 The Neo FreeRunner is a GNU/Linux based touch screen smart phone aimed at
 general consumer use as well as GNU/Linux desktop users and GNU/Linux
 software developers.


The Freerunner is indeed the device aimed at both consumers and devs.
I'm not saying it is not. What I am saying is that this release, the
one that will happen within a matter of weeks, is intended for
developers. There was a problem in the beginning about how the media
reported (and I'll say that Openmoko not correcting this was a problem
too) that the 1973 hardware would be developer only but reported that
the Freerunner, once released, would be a mass market device and THIS
IS NOT TRUE. The Freerunner + software WILL be released as a mass
market device at some point but there was no intention, statement or
plan to release a FUNCTIONAL Freerunner the moment there was a
Freerunner.

The marketing plan (as the wiki reflects) is that The Freerunner will
be a device marketed to the general public. What the author, and MANY
people assumed is Since this device is intended for the mass market,
it will be fully functional if I can buy it.


 I agree it is not yet ready for the masses, but I do expect the hardware
 to be capable and sufficient once the software has been taken care of. The
 neo1973 hardware was for developers. The FreeRunner is for developers AND
 users.

I agree as well. As an owner of both devices, I'm pretty darn sure
it's a good deal. :) The problem, as I noted in most of those cases,
is missing hardware - the author assumed he should be able to do
everything and he cant. What goes on sale soon is the FreeRunner
hardware not, A Freerunner running software that gives it
functionality.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here. :) I love Openmoko and
the project's directives. I like that there's a company building Free
Software powered phones and I'm willing to pay to support the
continuation of that. :) However, I think that by hyping Openmoko
when it's not ready will lead a LOT of people to be disappointed, as
that author was. This is obviously because of false assumptions, but
valid or not, that author's opinion was read by some people which may
make them question a future purpose. I just want to make sure that
people understand what is happening. Freerunner is a hardware device
and it goes on sale soon. Openmoko is a software stack for embedded
devices. Freerunner is ready, Openmoko is not. People who don't get
that shouldn't be mislead into thinking somethign else is the case -
moderating that guys comments would have been (in my eyes) doing that
since what he said isn't actually inaccurate, just based on

 I expect that in due time the gsm (call, sms, mms), gps, wifi and Bluetooth
 will be fully functional and I want a smooth UI on a phone with a medium
 battery lifetime. I do realise that it will take some time and I will be
 patient. But if that is never going to happen, then Openmoko should have
 informed his intended users better.

This will happen. There is no hardware reason why it can't happen. All
of the shortcomings the guy mentioned are, as far as we know, a
problem that the software isn't ready. The headphones silencing the
speakers thing, I think, is because there's no ALSA setting for
headset. The lack of bluetooth audio is because the Bluetooth Audio
profile hasn't been ported yet.

That's kind of my point though - you and I understand that the
HARDWARE is on sale now, but the author didn't. What he said is true -
those things do not work right now. His premise, not the hardware, was
flawed.


 I have not yet read a anything that said these goals could not be reached
 (with a sufficient amount of time and effort).

 Have a little faith ;-)

Faith has little to do with it. There's a passionate community and
I'll put a lot of stock into that.


 y


 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In all fairness, I don't think he's a troll, it just appears that the
 device doesn't meet his needs. Let me put something out there that is
 VERY VERY clearly stated. The Freerunner is not ready for a consumer
 grade device today. The hardware that will be available soon is
 intended for DEVELOPERS to build their applications on the Openmoko
 platform so that when the device is launched to end-users, there will
 be a wide selection of usable applications. If you buy a freerunner
 before the mass market launch, do not feel upset that a feature isn't
 there because this stage is intended for people writing those
 features.

 That said, advanced Linux users, or people who just like poking around
 at cool things can have a ton of fun with these devices at this early
 stage too. :)

 Point by point:

 **
 old TI GSM modem, recamping once a minute(!) to the mobile station,
 eating battery like crazy and very unreliable. A TI engineer asked me

Re: upgrade memory card

2008-06-24 Thread Kevin Dean
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,
 I have a question about the miniSD card in the FreeRunner. If I want
 to install a larger card at some point is it any easier to already
 have the new card in hand before I even turn on the FR and just
 install it when I get the FR? I'm wondering if the card comes blank or
 does it have important stuff on it already when the FR arrives. Also
 wondering if when I turn on the device will it start using the card in
 a big way by itself?

The card is 100% optional. The 512 MB card that comes with it is
blank. All of the important system information is stored in Flash
itself. THe SD card is simply mounted once the device is booted, so to
install a bigger card all you have to do is physically insert it and
turn the device on. Freerunner will function just fine without any
card at all but there are obvious benefits to having one. :)

 I'd like to avoid having to ask for help after breaking the phone for
 instance by yanking out the card after the OS puts something important
 there.

Nothing system-side is put on it. IIRC, older Qtopia snapshots on the
1973 put user data on the card if it were there, but it's possible
that was me playing with a symlink too. :P Assuming for a moment it
DID put the data on the card, removing it would simply make you start
fresh as if you have booted for hte first time. Not something
horrible, since you can reinsert the card, and you'll probably back up
your card if you're upgrading anyway.


 I checked the wiki
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_microSD_cards for ideas on
 what larger cards might work. I'm hoping those folks who have their
 hands on FR's and have experimented with other cards will keep the
 list updated. The last update to that page was in May.

 Thanks,
 Vinc

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


MokoMakefile Build Issues

2008-06-19 Thread Kevin Dean
I'm attempting to build an ASU image from the asu.stable branch on a
Debian Etch system (AMD64 arch) using MokoMakefile. I've edited the
makefile to echo gta02 to local.conf instead of 01 and changed
GIT_BRANCH to asu.stable.

I've also followed the wiki instructions for building an image but
there is the first error for me. Running make update gives me the
following error:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/moko$ make update
( cd bitbake  \
  ( git branch | egrep -e ' bitbake-om$'  /dev/null || \
git checkout -b bitbake-om --track origin/bitbake-om ))
( cd bitbake  \
  git checkout bitbake-om  \
  git fetch  \
  git rebase origin/bitbake-om )
fatal: Needed a single revision
invalid upstream origin/bitbake-om
make: *** [update-bitbake] Error 1


When building openmoko-qtopia-x11-image it seems to work properly up
until it attempts to build qtopia-phone-x11 which throws the errors
found at http://pastebin.com/m362d7e90

I've followed the wiki instructions, including cleaning the failed
package and trying thrice before complaining. :)

I'd really like to build my own images, since it appears the images on
the official buildhost are constantly out of date. Any help in
resolving these issues would be greatly appreciated!

-Kevin Dean

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Enough already (too many posts about forum vs. mail lists)

2008-06-19 Thread Kevin Dean
You really should post that on the forum. :)

-Kevin

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 People,

 It's time to end the infinite string of emails about
 using a forum vs not using one. NOW!

 For $diety's sake, don't those interested in the world's
 first completely open mobile phone/portable computer
 have something of substance to chat about?

 How about discussing the mechanics and schedule for
 getting OpenMoko so-called ASU
 to released, stable software?

 enough already.

 [smile]

 Ron K. Jeffries



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-18 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The root/user separation is the most fundamental part of a security
 policy and here is why.  Root is by its nature not only unrestricted but
 unrestrictable (I think I just made up a new word). A non-root user can
 only destroy the data that user owns. Now while the conventional
 desktop, user johndoe owns all his MP3s and pr0n and thus can delete
 and otherwise destroy them; on the Moko platform, the extensive use of
 DBus makes destruction of the most important part more difficult.

 What I'm saying is that (Where possible) a daemon holds the important
 data (PIM data, calendar data, etc) and is capable of restricting what
 the user can do with it.  The user account communicates with this daemon
 (via DBus or whatever) and gets the data the user wants while protecting
 the same. Both being normal users, they are not allowed to step on each
 other, but if the user is root, then someone with malicious intents can
 exploit that user account to step on the guardian account, either
 causing a DoS (crash) or actually manipulating/destroying data.

Actually, I think you've just sold me. I'm thinking about Openmoko a
lot like I think of a desktop system (having looked at the way the
data is on Om currently) that holds everything is a file and while
it may be true, from an action perspective passing information through
a non-root, non-user daemon exposes that information to the user in a
way that's more than simply dealing with a file. That's the goal of
the ASU/zhone and it's a management case I wasn't even thinking of.

Tradition bit me in the ass, thanks for spelling that one out for me,
I like it a lot. :)


 I guess what I'm actually saying is that moving from an unrestricted
 account (root) to a restricted account (user) won't automagically buy us
 protection from all data-loss possibilities, but the mindset of moving
 to a normal user account is a core principle of a real security
 architecture.

 Ideally, something like an SELinux policy would be able to restrict
 capabilities without requiring different user accounts to do it (e.g.
 anything running as browser_r cannot talk to anything running as sms_r
 even though they're the same user).

 And if you're worried about deleting random data, a fairly simple
 chown/chmod will protect against that. That stuff doesn't work if the
 user you're guarding against is root.

 That's correct if the data is encrypted but encryption isn't what's
 being tossed around here. If all your data is stored in the clear, and
 an intruder has physical access to the device, the distinctions
 between root and non-root user don't matter. That's what I'm saying.

 That also depends on how long the malicious user has physical access and
 how fast the malicious user works. If the malicious user has only a few
 minutes and isn't proficient in cracking OM devices, the changes of
 damage are less.  If the user can't keep good physical control of the
 device, then yes, they'll get pwn3d eventually, but no one I know of is
 that careless with their phones anymore. Even the non-geeky don't let
 their phones out of their sight for more than a few minutes.

 Now I'm not saying that such careless users don't exist, just that
 physical access and the root/user differentiation are not the same
 problem, and one should not override the other.

 Encryption is another matter, and one I will want addressed before too
 long. I've got some ideas on how it can be done, but I'll need to see
 more of the OM system live before I can begin to decide if my ideas
 are feasible or if they need changing.

 -KW


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU

2008-06-17 Thread Kevin Dean
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 2:34 PM, Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm glad Raster joined up w/Moko for this.  What's that slider view
 for (the one with three panels)?  The equations, zoomed text, giant
 icon, etc?

It's an application launcher. Each application is in a category, and
each box on that screen is a category. You can slide each box left and
right to have the image fade in and out (you can see mid-slide in one
of the screenshots) to change the application and then tap it to
launch it. The images are just blown up versions of the icons that
you'd see in grid mode.


 I'm guessing something goes in there, but I have no idea what.

 --
 H. Lally Singh
 Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
 Virginia Tech

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-16 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:23 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin Dean wrote:

 In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's
 data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv
 seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact
 that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk
 still.



 This is nonsense.

You dispute that the user data is the most important part of the
mobile device experience?


 Encrypt the data and have it backed up via policy/service/etc.

My previous e-mail has been clear - I WANT security on the device.
However, I simply don't beleive that the root/user seperation is the
most important consideration in that regard. You tossed out some great
security ideas, onces I'd personally put time into doing on my own
device, but with all due respect, you're saying my statements are
nonsense and then offering solutions that (while they work) aren't
what I was saying. Protecting user data is key so encryption and a
built-in, fully automated backup system is somethign I think would be
a GREAT thing to have. But it doesn't refute my point at all - a
non-root user can destroy the most critical part of the system and
doesn't need root to do it. Implimenting a root/user seperation itself
doesn't mitigate this risk. I agree that this risk needs to be
mitigated, I simply don't believe that the root/user split does much
to lessen the risks.


 You cannot separate security from a device this powerful.  Hell you
 cannot separate security from even crappy devices.  Hell we now live in
 an age where frickin printers come with full webservers with
 ssh/ftp/telnet and are now a security risk as much as any desktop.

 Despite the common belief, PHYSICAL access to a device DOES NOT
 GUARANTEE physical access to data.

That's correct if the data is encrypted but encryption isn't what's
being tossed around here. If all your data is stored in the clear, and
an intruder has physical access to the device, the distinctions
between root and non-root user don't matter. That's what I'm saying.


 A good enough key with a proper authentication scheme will keep the
 frickin NSA busy for 10's of thousands of years.

 Let's not kid our selves.  Security is of the utmost importance
 ESPECIALLY IN A WIRELESS WORLD.

I agree.


 If you think Bluejacking was nothing, just wait until you start owning
 these puppies during a walk by - hell, I have plans for making a
 carrying bag with a full spectrume of equipment and antennas that does
 nothing BUT sniff out wireless devices in an attempt to own them just
 for fun.

 How long do you think an root priviledged device like this would last
 under such circumstances?

 The world is getting MORE HAZARDOUS not less, with the full power of
 laptops only 10 years old or less in our pockets how can anyone think
 this is not a serious consideration?

 Rob

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: When it will be possible to buy OpenMoko?

2008-06-16 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Andy Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 There was a post on engadget mobile that suggested some have been
 released.

 I cant find it, you got a link?

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/06/11/openmoko-freerunner-gets-reviewed-early/

I didn't get this as part of a university release though.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU

2008-06-16 Thread Kevin Dean
Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of
the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing
all of the options on a given application. But others are
interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications.

I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog
post. That post can be read at
http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html.

I hope people enjoy!

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog: Photo Tour Of The ASU

2008-06-16 Thread Kevin Dean
I was informed that the images on the buildhost (which is what I took
all the screenshots of) are out of date. Please use the images as a
glimpse into the ASU but not as a status report on it.

I'll see if I can follow up once I get a more current build running.

On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Charles Edward Pax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks for the post. I love screenshots.

 -Charles

 On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi everyone. Over the weekend I took perhaps 50 or so screenshots of
 the ASU on a Freerunner. A lot of them are repetitive, simply showing
 all of the options on a given application. But others are
 interesting and show some new or under-reviewed applications.

 I've taken those best of images and put them together in a blog
 post. That post can be read at

 http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Photo-Tour-of-the-ASU.html.

 I hope people enjoy!

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-15 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:25 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 will tell you that having those kind of permissions systems when the
 INTRUDER has physical access to the device is next to pointless.

 the om is connected via wlan or bluetooth -- thus allowing hacking into it
 (if it is not posiible right now it will some day).
 thus the user does not necessarily notice if there's an intruder.
 second: what ways to boot the om _without_ destroying all data? if you
 need to hack the password for the root account to be able to manipulate
 existing data, there's another fence to jump.


 What benefit does havign things like OPKG SUID give us that having
 opkg run as root doesn't?

 only opkg is run, not everything possible.
 logging in as root opens a world of ways to harm your data, either by
 accident or deliberately.
 expoliting suid requires a bug in the program suid'd.


 User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf
 /* because...?

 see above.
 you can configure which commands/programs may be run with sudo.
 and user john is not every user -- a user able to run sudo needs to belong
 to a specific group, configurable as well.

 If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT
 EVER be able to run privaledged commands.

 see above.

 have various roles. This assumption doesn't exactly hold when the
 entire filesystem is small enough to be put in one's pocket.

 the om represents a device more powerfull than the computer linux was
 developed on.

 i am not sure i understand you correctly, but for me it sounds like you
 saying user/group separation is meaningfull for servers only (and only
 because physical access can be prevented), for end user computers, laptops
 specifically, it is a waste.
 if so, you are pretty much alone with this understanding.

 what bothers me: as far as i understand the vast majority of applications
 is ported from existing linux distributions or just recompiled -- so, why
 would one disable the user/group principle the apps obey on their native
 platform?
 ubuntu for one works rather well with that wheel/sudo way and even on
 non-ubuntu systems users are able to run a lot of root applications such
 as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. w/o beeing root all the time.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-15 Thread Kevin Dean
Firstly, sorry for the blank reply. Accidentally double clicked and
send is in the same spot. :P

On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 4:25 AM, arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 only opkg is run, not everything possible.
 logging in as root opens a world of ways to harm your data, either by
 accident or deliberately.
 expoliting suid requires a bug in the program suid'd.

I understand how and why permission seperations exist. :) What I'm
saying is that if we sit back and evaluate how this device is going to
be used in the vast majority of cases, you'll realize that unlike a
desktop or server system, the data that a non-root user can delete is
as bad, or perhaps even WORSE than destroying the system integrity
itself.

I'm not saying we should abandon security as a concern. But
realistically speaking, a mobile device DOES have different concerns
than a desktop or a server. Focusing on system internals on Openmoko
while ignoring the fact that remote users can destroy vital, NON root,
important data is just busy work.


 User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf
 /* because...?

 see above.
 you can configure which commands/programs may be run with sudo.

I understand this. Take a step back for a second and really evaluate
the device's marketed purpose though. The point of sudo and the like
are to ensure that a non-root user can't hose the system, right? A
non-root user might need to be able to install a printer so you can
give that user access to CUPS commands. In the traditional UNIX file
system, having /usr destroyed is signifigantly bigger of an issue than
having /tmp destroyed in most cases. In a network environment, you
defend the important stuff dearly, and accept a certain level of
risk with every little blurb you give to a non-root user.

In the mobile world, there is NOTHING more important than the user's
data. Nothing. And in the mobile world, you can impliment root priv
seperations till the cows come home, but it doesn't eliminate the fact
that the most vulnerable part of the system is being put at risk
still.

Please understand I'm not saying Ignore security, I'm a big fan of
security. :) I'm simply trying to look at this in a way that's suited
to the use cases rather than tradition.

 If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT
 EVER be able to run privaledged commands.

 see above.

Perhaps I needed to make this distinction. When I said  a user in
this case, I don't mean a line in /etc/passwd but a flesh and blood
person. You running sudo some-command is a user running a privaledged
command. Sudo is a way to allow users to have SOME of the powers of
root, while limiting them from using others. If UNIX user john has
sudo permissions to remove packages, and that UNIX account is
comprimised, it is AS bad as of root itself had a shell on the box -
the intruder on the system can hose it.


 i am not sure i understand you correctly, but for me it sounds like you
 saying user/group separation is meaningfull for servers only (and only
 because physical access can be prevented), for end user computers, laptops
 specifically, it is a waste.
 if so, you are pretty much alone with this understanding.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm quite happy that I can log in a
kevin and not root on my desktop system. I AM saying, however,
that on a mobile device the value of each chunk of the filesystem is
different than on a desktop workstation, a laptop and CERTAINLY a
server. And taking into account traditional things because they're
traditional isn't always the most suited solution to the environment.


 what bothers me: as far as i understand the vast majority of applications
 is ported from existing linux distributions or just recompiled -- so, why
 would one disable the user/group principle the apps obey on their native
 platform?

Because the system they obey is designed for an environment where
protection of the system is more important than protection of non-root
data.

 ubuntu for one works rather well with that wheel/sudo way and even on
 non-ubuntu systems users are able to run a lot of root applications such
 as rdate, power off, opkg, etc. w/o beeing root all the time.

If you check the Ubuntu mailing lists back to the days of Warty you'll
see that there were people objecting to the use of sudo for the same
reason that people are calling for root/user split. Allowing a
comprimised non-root user to have access to system internals was
heresy! Objectivly speaking, no system on a public network is secure
- security is simply the amount of risk you're willing to take for the
sake of access. Ubuntu chose to open up the sudo risk (and as I said,
even though it's common, it's a procedure that still spark
controversy) because, in the end, it was deemed that that amount of
risk had acceptable gains. The reason that those gains were acceptable
on a desktop and not a server is the same arguement I'm making here -
the use case puts user data (which is still at risk when controlled by
a non-root 

Re: OT: Nokia expects open source developers to accept things like DRM, commercial IP rights, and SIM locks.

2008-06-13 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:50 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Considering English is not his native language... I am sure something
 did not come through as he intended.

 I think what he means is this:
 Businesses are not yet ready to fully embrace open source as the
 community see's it. He also means that the open source community should
 learn WHY things are the way they are. You don't have to agree with
 those ideas, but knowledge about it doesn't hurt anybody and could
 benefit by enabling us to help change things.

 Remember, Nokia might be one company, but it is made by individuals. A
 lot of them. Who have differing ideas about things.

Thanks for the sanity reminder, Lorn. While I can see why this would
be alarming, even if a certain company isn't ready to embrace a
philosophy, they ARE writing and releasing software that is free
software (open source, if that's your moniker) for the time being and
usually Actions speak louder than words.

There are companies much worse - still totally unwilling to embrace
different paradigms. Nokia might be dropping setting up minefields,
but at least they're saying There are minefields!'. Free Software
works better in developement and ethics and some naysayers haven't
stopped free software before so don't lend too much weight to this. ;)

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: moko running everything as root

2008-06-13 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My opinion is averse. There's no valid reason to abandon the very simple
 concept of users, groups, and permissions, just to have an easy start on
 development (fixing apps later on is a PITA). If you don't care from
 beginning, you'll end up where Vista is right now.
 Where is the problem to chmod any file in /dev, /sys, etc. to do rdate, power
 off, opkg etc (ok, for opkg I myself would prefer to be asked for root pw).

The difference, as I see it, is we can be sure that a user has the
capacity to physically disable the device. Having user seperations
makes sense when you have some restricted users and some root users.
Anybody who has dealt with security in a mission critical situation
will tell you that having those kind of permissions systems when the
INTRUDER has physical access to the device is next to pointless.

 Or make apps SUID! Do we really have to repeat this annoyance yet *another*
 time?

What benefit does havign things like OPKG SUID give us that having
opkg run as root doesn't? The reason for seperation of privaledges is
to prevent an unauthorized person from ruining the system (a
seceretary deleting anything ending in .conf because she doesn't use
those files on a network server...) by an unprivaledged user.

If you look at studies on why Linux isn't hit by viruses you'll see
the root/user seperation featured as #1. #2 reason is diversity - A
virus undetected on  Red Hat might not be invisible on Debian and the
work needed to ensure that was the case is about equal to ensuring
that every device driver ever written for Windows was bug free (i.e
next to impossible)

 If the user *really* wants to run these apps in the way you assumed (being
 pissed off to relogin as root), why not use ageold mechanisms like sudoers,
 wheel etc?

User John running sudo rm -rf /* is better than root running rm -rf
/* because...? If you want security, unprivaledges users must NOT
EVER be able to run privaledged commands. In a corporate environment,
it is safe to assume that all of the people using the filesystem will
have various roles. This assumption doesn't exactly hold when the
entire filesystem is small enough to be put in one's pocket.


 To me it seems this is an *extreme* inattentiveness of developers, even worse
 a ridiculous one.

As I see it, it's being realistic when using technology designed with
restrictions to suit a multi-user environment in a situation where
only a single user. In a networked and shared environment, the
deletion of a single user's browser preferences isn't too important as
long as the integrity of the majority of the network exists. In a pure
single user situation, the integrity of the user's data IS network
integrity.

Feel free to ask an iPhone user what would be worse, the entire
dataset of their device being erased, or only their phone numbers,
pictures, music, settings and so on. in both cases, that user would
NEVER use another device from that company. When the user is more
important than integrity there is NO way that traditional UNIX file
system permissions add a layer of security.

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-12 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 12 Jun 2008, at 03:19, Kevin Dean wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one.

 Walk into T-Mobile or ATT and  buy a phone and sign up for a
 contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in
 your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same
 contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll
 see they're the same.

 I think your replies to this thread started when I said OMG!
 WTF!?!?!? in reply to a statement like that.

 Here in the UK the prices would certainly NOT be the same.

 Checking ATT's website it does indeed seem the situation is
 different in the US. I went to the website, clicked the shop for
 tariffs (shop for plans?) link and was unable to complete the
 checkout process without selecting a handset. To a European, this
 seems about as antiquated as being required to rent your landline
 handset from the phone company (which indeed was the case when I was
 a child, 25 years ago).

I'm surprised that ATT doesn't list that on their site. I honestly
haven't checked their (or T-Mobile, my provider of choice) website for
being able to do that. The thing is, people frequently go Cell
carriers are doing this abusive thing! and that gets me a bit
annoyed. It is more common to buy the phone/service bundle, but it's
not the ONLY way to. I went to T-Mobile this weekend to purchase a SIM
card for my Freerunner and the only question asked was Is it
unlocked (ensuring it's compatible). There was a SNAFU there
because this was a newly opened store who didn't have the activation
kits, but it was a service they clearly offered and even have
pamphlets in their holders.


 You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're
 arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit
 someone else's company is able to make on transactions.

 Hmmmn... IMO you're taking Mr Pfeiffer's should a bit literally here.

 Certainly from my point of view, I am astounded at the opportunity
 the US carriers appear to be missing out on. They could easily
 advertise got a handset from your old contract? Save 25% on you
 monthly bills - try our new SIM-only tariffs! Think of how the
 customers would come flocking to them.

There are other logistical issues to that, and while it's slowly
changing, it's not possible to ignore them. In most of Europe, GSM is
standard. In the US, two of the four largest cellular providers use
CDMA so for most people making that claim would come with so many
caveats that it would be hard to handle even in the best case. In
Verizon's case, for instance, they will be transitioning to GSM from
CDMA soon. It would be a bit counter productive for them to
encourage people to bring their existing phones over to a network when
they're phasing down that very technology.


There's also the fact that most people are in a contract. There would
have to be SIGNIFIGANT savings to justify most of that for customers.
Typical early termination fees are between $150 and $300 per handset.
A 25% monthly savings on my plan would save me very little money in
the long run ($150 cancellation fee per handset and my plan is a
family plan where my wife and I share minutes. To cancel that service,
I'd need to terminate 2 phones, costing me $300 for a two year savings
of $360).

There's also the consumerist mentality here. I'm not sure if it exists
in the UK, or if so, how strongly, but it is common (especially among
the younger demographic) to change phones frequently to have the
latest and greatest. It's the same reason the iPhone 2 is going to
sell despite the fact that the iPhone is still functional and even
still leading the pack in terms of appeal.


 The scenario you describe means that whenever one finishes one's
 contract the old mobile phone is garbage. It's chucked away and
 becomes landfill. I can't see how this benefits anyone except the
 foreign manufacturers of phones. The carriers have to stock,
 inventory  finance handset stock, and the consumer ends up paying
 more. It just seems insane to me, and that's what surprised me.

As I said above, in many many many cases it is the phone, NOT the
cellular service, that gets people interested in service. ATT wasn't
particularly appealing but the iPhone WAS. There are some pragmatic
people who buy a phone and use it until it dies. A large chunk upgrade
their phones before their contracts expire for some new or improved
feature, or because it comes in a new color. Even when two carriers
have the same phone models, there are often exclusives - Verizon had
a pink RAZR for a year before anyone else did for instance.


 (OTOH: I now understand that the iPhone truly does only cost $199, if
 one prefers monthly billing to PAYG SIM cards).

Perhaps that's another difference that matters. Trying to buy my SIM
this past weekend, even though

Re: Why not use forum?

2008-06-12 Thread Kevin Dean
It's interesting how much divide this issue causes, I think. :) I'm
personally a fan of fora, but I don't really care too strongly either
way. Some people REALLY like mailing lists and some people REALLY like
fora and never the twain shall meet. :P

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Richard Reichenbacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 We went over this right around the same time last year.  The general
 consensus was that forums are the devil, mailing lists are good and
 anyone that thinks otherwise is a complete moron.  Oh and prepare to
 get torn a new one for having a differing opinion.

 On Jun 12, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Leonti Bielski wrote:

 Hi!
 I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community?
 It's much  better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the
 topics you want and etc.
 The main
 Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable
 and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum?
 Can anyone explain to me why we can't install

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Wireless providers in the US

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 1:03 PM,  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Could those of you in the US, who have the prior phone,and who plan to get
 the new one, share what providers you are using?

T-Mobile. Been with them 5 or 6 years and zero complaints.

 Also, any details would
 be great.  I am going to be leaving Sprint, and ditching my Treo 650 for
 the new phone.

Dropped Motorola RAZRs for a Neo 1973 and Neo Freerunner.

  It is very exciting, but I am a little lost as to what all
 my options are.

I'm assuming for a moment you're planning on purchasing an Openmoko
phone since that's what this list is about. Any cellular carrier that
uses GSM works with the Freerunner and 1973. This pretty much means
anything BUT Sprint or Verizon (and Verizon will be transitioning to
GSM in 2009 in the metro DC area, from what I've heard). Assuming the
mobile companies don't restrict phones they're not familiar with,
every contract plan or prepaid plan should work.

 It is further complicated by the way in the US everyone
 seems to offer regionally based plans, rather than having the same plans
 available throughout the country.

I have to say I disagree unless you're interested only in a small,
local based provider which Sprint is NOT. T-Mobile and ATT both offer
nationwide plans and the plans are the same coast to coast.

  I am in the D.C. area.

A friend of mine lives in northwest and T-Mobile doesn't work well for
her (though Verizon is starting to fail in her building too). I get
excellent service in Frederick, Alexandria, Gaithersburg, Reston,
Herndon, Sterling. Come to think of it... Other than being in like the
Baltimore tunnel, I don't think I've ever NOT had service and I drove
out to Jersey a few months ago to buy my car.


 Thanks

 P.S.  My intended uses are as a phone, as a modem or tethering device for
 my laptop,

I support Openmoko but let me give my realistic opinion - the decision
to use 2G and include wifi isn't the best for Americans in metro
areas. From what I gather, data over cellular is still pretty
expensive in Europe so the inclusion of Wifi benefits the most people
there. In the USA where unlimited data plans are quite affordable,
where people commute signifigantly longer distances and cellular
coverage is more reliable and more readily available than wifi
coverage lack of 3G sucks really REALLY badly.

If you're tethering for cellular data connection, a Freerunner will
disappoint you. The fact that there's not a cellular connection fast
enough to support streaming audio on my daily commute is serious
enough that I questioned if I'd pay money for a Freerunner.

 as a web browser when I am on the road, for calendar and such,
 for texting.  I am interested in GPS features as well.

A Freerunner would work well for all of those, and with the GPS being
tacked on, I'm not sure I can think of many devices that would combine
all of those features.



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Dual SIM?

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
The Freerunner has a single SIM slot.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Adilson Oliveira
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi.

 I'm quite sure the answer is no but as I didn't find any definitive
 answer for that I decided to ask: does the openmoko hardware support 2
 SIM cards?

 []s

 Adilson.
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFIUBYZ2cB5Bt7H7YARAranAJ42l1mQeDd8z/HlYC9bcqTptAI1UgCgoJZC
 XRsqcU6XHall3sYaq42jgcs=
 =tW0/
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Stroller writes:

On 11 Jun 2008, at 15:44, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

 Did you get a lower price on your contract than you would have with a
 phone?  Yes, they would have let me pay for a subsidized phone without
 giving me the phone...

Where the heck are you?

To the British it is quite *obvious* that a contract without a phone
is cheaper.

 US.  To me, it's quite obvious that a contract without a phone
 *should* be cheaper, but that's a long way from is (it actually
 worked out for the best, since I've had a working phne all these
 months as a result).

I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it obvious
that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service
(cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no
matter what phone you have.

In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of
PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the
service contract doesn't.



The most obvious example of this is that one can choose how much to
pay up front - on can choose the phone for free with one set of
tariffs, or pay £75 on purchase and get the same number of minutes
for £10 a month less (on an 18-month contract, for example). One can
also get much cheaper contracts when no phone purchase is involved.


Not sure if you're confusing cause and effect here or if Brits just
look at cellular service differently than Americans. You are
implying that the contract is the monthly service of voice/data
connectivity and a handset. In the US, ONLY the monthly service of
voice/data connectivity is contracted. It seems to me that what you're
ACTUALLY doing when you make your purchase is purchasing a phone at
some price, agreeing to a service level (monthly voice/data) and then
financing the cost of that device through your monthly bill. By paying
the £75 up front you're simply paying for the phone and NOT paying the
cost of it in installments monthly.

But from how I see it the service that is purchased (voice/data
connectivity) remains the same price.

 I haven't seen anything like that here.  The plan costs what it costs;
 you can pay varying amounts up front for different phones.

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Wireless providers in the US

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 4:09 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ian douglas wrote:
 ... but not at ATT plans are available coast-to-coast.

Got it! This was something I wasn't aware of. I've lived in several
states over the past handful of years and the plans I've had have all
been the same? I would think it's actually HARDER not to offer some
plan in other areas. Every plan offered on the website have been
offered in stores.

I've seen smaller carriers (like Bluegrass Wireless in Kentucky) offer
plans that didn't cover the nation, but never large carriers offer
geographically limited plans. How odd, thanks for pointing that out.


 at = all

 Lack of sleep = typos. My bad.

 -id

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:41 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin Dean wrote:
 I'm an American and your statement confuses me. Why is it obvious
 that a contract without a phone should be cheaper? The service
 (cellular connectivity for voice and/or data) is the same service no
 matter what phone you have.

 In the US, the price of service contracts doesn't change. The price of
 PHONES does when you agree to commit to a service contract but the
 service contract doesn't.


 Which part of a portion of the contract pays for you phone ... phone
 ISN'T FREE, YOU ARE FINANCING THE PURCHASE OF THE PHONE VIA THE
 CONTRACT is hard to understand?

I understand that statement ENTIRELY. Now that we're done beating down
straw men, where have I ONCE mentioned anything about a free phone
(with the exception of the use of quoting a previous poster, in
responce to his use of the term) ?

I have not.

The average person walks into a cellular retailer, purchases a phone
(A phone that is clearly marked as costing, say $199) signs up for the
two year contract and recieves a discount on the phone and begins a
service subscription.

To say that he's getting a free phone is stupid - he got a $199 phone
as a bonus for signing up for a contractual service (a voluntary
service, by the way!). Did he pay for the phone? No. What he did was
reduce the phone company's profit margin by making them expend more
money in order to gain him as a customer of the recurring subscription
for vioce/data services.

If I walk into a retail outlet for my mobile service provider, I can
pay for a phone WITHOUT service - I get no credits or refunds from the
cellular provider. I pay for the phone.

I can also have my OWN phone and walk into a cellular service provider
and sign up for a contract of video/data service. The price I pay for
that service is the same as the price paid by the person who took the
discount on the phone. I am simply creating a higher profit revenue
for that company in the process.

-Kevin




 Why do americans have such a hard time grasping this?

 Rob

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Because the price of the free phone is bundled into the price of the
 contract.

I don't think so. The only thing that changes in the deal is the
profit margin of the company. The costs of the mobile carrier also
indirectly include the costs of electricity but if I said I'm not
buying electricity from you so I shouldn't pay the mark up from
electricity I would just sound really really stupid. I'm well aware
that the mobile providers pays for the phone and as a cost of doing
business, charges more for their products.

  If I don't get a phone, I shouldn't have to pay for one.

Walk into T-Mobile or ATT and  buy a phone and sign up for a
contract. Write down how much you pay. Walk out, put that phone in
your car and walk back into the store and sign up for the same
contract without a phone. Write THAT price down. Compare and you'll
see they're the same.

You're not arguing you shouldn't have to pay for a phone, you're
arguing that you should be allowed to dictate the level of profit
someone else's company is able to make on transactions.

 Not quite -- you're also committed to pay the inflated price long
 enough to pay for the phone,

And as long as that company pays taxes. And as long as that company
advertises. And as long as that company complies with minimum wage
laws.

I am aware that when a company spends money, in order to be profitable
they will reclaim those costs they will increase the price of their
products. I have no problem with a company making profit. In fact, I
would strongly PERFER it because companies that provide me services
tend to vanish when they don't make money.

 or pay for the phone under the guise of
 an early termination fee.

You entered into the contract of your own free will. Entering into
that contract is merely claiming that your word has value. Why do you
complain about agreeing to something and then being held to that
agreement? The terms are stated up front, if you find them
disagreeable negotiate the terms. If you can't, don't enter into the
agreement.

The termination fee covers the loss to the company's profit margin
when you fail to complete your payment agreement. They do this so that
it's easier for customers to get cellular service. The cost of putting
up towers, hiring support staff, providing them with bathrooms,
purchasing computers, hiring programmers and engineers and all of that
is not small. To recoup that cost, they need to make a certain amount
of money. Putting a phone in the hands of people who don't have phones
ALSO costs money, and they need to ensure that if that customer fails
to generate profit for them, they will not face a loss from doing
business with that customer.


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Robert Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh okay so its semantics then.

In the USA, the contract is for the service ONLY. That's why I asked
in the beginning if we had a different definition of what it meant to
contract. It's a lot like a grocery store that offers buy one get one
free kind of sales, they create incentive to purchase by providing
another product. The price of the service (video/voice) doesn't change
depending on those incentives. You can still buy ONE product (in some
areas... he he. Most people comply with laws and different areas
interpret buy one get one free differently) at the same price even
though by taking them up on the offer you gain more in the end if you
do.

It's a semantic issue perhaps. English has no word for Umami, the
kind of taste sensation you feel when biting into a piece of cheddar
cheese. Prior to the assymilation of the term deja vu from French,
there was no term for the sensation of having done the same thing
before. Mere words goes a LONG way towards understanding; sometimes
nuances matter.


 *NOD*

 :)

 Rob

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: SIM cards for Freerunner (was Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price)

2008-06-11 Thread Kevin Dean
Please note this is an OFF LIST reply, since it is off topic for
Openmoko mailing lists.

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If I make an observation.. I am an American by birth but have lived all over
 the world.. In the middle of the Pacific, Korea, and now Europe (again).
 One of the things I have noticed is that the laws in Europe tend to protect
 the consumer whereas the laws in the US tend to protect big business.

Why do you instantly assume there two sides are opposed to each other?
Now, let me say I agree that corporations (definition: a legal entity
recognized by the government for the purpose of shielding the
individual for personal responsibillity for their actions) are in
general a bad thing since it means if a person does something bad
while conducting business they don't suffer penalties. If, however, a
person running an honest business manages to be big, I see nothing
wrong at ALL with them.

Businesses (big AND small) provide services and products to people.
They don't use violence to get what they want (even Microsoft doesn't
send the police or military to your house for refusing to buy their
licenses). If people said I don't like how you conduct business and I
refuse to give you my money! those businesses (large and small) would
stop doing that thing because they want to stay in business!

 I could give many examples but I think this whole contact vs. no contract
 discussion is a perfect example. imho.

I was raised as a liberal Democrat. That said, I can sit back and
(with the best of them) argue the liberal perspective about how big
business takes advantage of the little guy/working class.

I was also raised to believe that I should question everything and not
accept what other people tell me without some proof. In EVERY
arguement against big business there is one key factor - the
government. How big might Microsoft be if the government (which
funds every government school and university in just about every
nation of the world) didn't pick teachers who demanded their
assignments be submitted in .doc format? How many business might exist
worldwide if the government didn't mandate licenses and zoning and all
kinds of other things that prevent people (who create wealth by simply
existing!) who have very little money from starting honest businesses
and earning money by providing services and goods to people? How many
deaths might be avoided if the government let people and their doctors
determine if a medication was safe enough for their specific
situation?


 Just a personal observation... shoot me down if you like.

I don't mean to shoot you down. I just find it disconcerning how many
people attack business owners, demand regulation which forces up
prices and reduces control and than blame businesses for increased
prices and decreased control. Hopefully some people will critically
evaluate things...



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Cleared to start Mass production

2008-06-05 Thread Kevin Dean
Excellent! Thanks for the update!

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 11:12 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The latest update I have from the factory indicates that mass Production (
 that means running the SMT line without stopping to check stuff every two
 seconds) has been CLEARED TO START.






 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis
 Wollersheim
 Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:16 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: OpenMOKO availbility

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 It will be available soon (within one month would be my guess).  Does anyone
 else have a better guess?

 You cannot book an order at present.  I reckon they will be able to ship to
 Pakistan.

 Cheers
 Dennis

 Masoom Alam wrote:
 Hi every one,

 I wanted to ask, that when the latest version of the openmoko will be
 available (seems a stupid question, as we can see a lot of posts on
 the mailing list :)).
 Actually, I dont want to wait for one year this time, therefore asking
 this question.

 Plus, is there is any possiblity at the moment to book an order for me
 in advance now?

 Plus, I want to ship the latest version to Pakistan, any
 recommendation in this regard?

 Regards,
 MM Alam




 --
 --

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

 - --
 - ---
 Dennis Wollersheim
 Lecturer, Health Information Management
 La Trobe University
 Bundoora Victoria 3086
 Room HS1:110
 (03) 9479 1763 (bh)
 0414 529 454 (mobile)
 http://homepage.cs.latrobe.edu.au/dewoller
 - ---
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with MultiZilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFIRMWF41ROt9TlFkoRAhFTAJ9DvMdVl2bbtGUHJFG2nR8Dde9mOgCg/KlF
 E4wU+XXesXAVFoo0dvnJLck=
 =GOB0
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

2008-06-03 Thread Kevin Dean
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:51 AM, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) skrev:
 On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 23:12:30 -0400 Lally Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 the day nvidia comes with open drivers for this... we can begin to take an
 interest :)


 To be honest, (i myself do not really care if the drivers are open or
 not, i do not have the require level of geekyness to change them :p) i
 couldnt care less if the drivers are open or not.

I'm not a programmer, but I have to fully disagree with you. Carsten
IS a hacker, and I trust that if the source code where devouring
children that he'd make it public. If not him then Zeke, or if not
him... Me not being able to program it doesn't mean that someone else
who cares can't. That's a level of trust that I gain from Free
Software, and I'd not change that.


 Aslong as we/someone could run a opensource OS on it, such as OM, i'd
 love it!

 I want the ability to change everything, but having a different cpu/gpu
 driver isnt exactly a high priority. Ofcourse this would be great, but a
 closed driver will do fine if my phone can have specs as good as that!

I think about that more and more (I traded a quad core Opteron system
with 10 GB of RAM for an Intel Core 2 Duo with 4 so that I could use
the GPLed Intel 3D driver (before I leanrned that GLX was technically
non-free). The more I think on it, the more I realize that a non-free
firmware on the system mainboard actually scares me a bit MORE than a
non-free application in userspace. Not only that, but how in the HELL
can you call a project Openmoko with a tagline of Free your phone
and then turn your back on openness and freedom?



 Regards

 Kristoffer

 Seen this?

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7430768.stm
 http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/02/nvidia-launches-tegra-hopes-to-change-the-smartphone-mid-game/

 The Tegra line will be all-in-one, integrated systems on a chip,
 containing an 800MHz ARM CPU, GeForce GPU, image processor, HD video
 processor, and controllers for all other aspects of core operations
 (memory, USB ports, communication) -- in a package about the size of a
 dime.

 The range will come in two varieties to start -- the Tegra 600 and the
 Tegra 650. Both chips can run games like Quake 3 with full filters and
 anti-aliasing at rates of more than 40 FPS, and will support 1080p
 HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD or CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV outs.

 It's still ARM based, so it should work with OM.  It'll run Android if
 you want, and may end up with a slightly smaller phone, as it
 integrates the GPU.

 --
 H. Lally Singh
 Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
 Virginia Tech

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: FoxyTag

2008-06-02 Thread Kevin Dean
If you're speeding, you're already breaking the law. Good people have
an ethical imperative to ignore and oppose unjust law.

I'd love to see a Trapster[1] app on Openmoko. I was made aware of
this project because of the Dash GPS-device which was made in
association with FIC/Openmoko, so I've got my fingers crossed.

[1] http://www.trapster.com/

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Pawel Kowalak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 2008-06-02, at 18:47, Bastian Muck wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 Be careful with such software. In germany e.g. such Software is
 forbidden.

 Are you sure about that? According to FAQ:

 Laws usually prohibit radars detectors and system that perturb their
 functions. But FoxyTag is not a radar detector. It simply gives
 information according to your current position.

 For example in Poland radar detectors are also forbidden, but almost
 every GPS navigation system has speed cameras database.

 BR, Pawel

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Question about future devices (GTA03,04)

2008-06-02 Thread Kevin Dean
This is GTA03 - http://walkingice.twbbs.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=715

On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Sergey Volkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello, openmoko community.

 I have a question regarding future products of Openmoko. Wiki says
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA that GTA03 is actually HXD8, a car
 navigation system. This claim is based on a post by Michael Lauer,
 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/017061.html.

 But IMHO that inference is not obvious:

 Martin Bernreuther writes:
 looking at the Wiki, there're also speculations about another Neo-like 
 device:
   http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
 This seems not to correspond to the GTA04. (Maybe  HXD8==GTA03?)
 Is there a more complete roadmap about the Neo-Productline somewhere?

 And Michael Lauer replies:
  device: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8
 This cat is long out of the box. It's the Dash Express device.

 For me the actual question of GTA03 vs. GTA04 remains unanswered.

 Also, Michael Lauer recently posted
 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/003020.html
 following on the openmoko-kernel list:

 I don't want to talk too much about future products, but I would vote against
 going away from NAND for 03 -- there's too many business risks. 03 is about
 evolution. 04 is revolution.

 This makes the issue completely unclear, esp. GTA03 part. AFAIK (my
 opinion stems from
 the discussion which took place in May on the hardware list) GTA04 is
 a brand new
 device based on a more advanced SoC. But it's very hard to find any info on 
 03.

 Could anybody unveil the GTA03 mystery? What are the hardware specs, will the
 shared-slow-videoRAM-bus issue be fixed (for me it's the main reason
 to wait for the
 next device)?

 Any comments from openmoko employees are especially welcome ! (:

 PS don't kick me too hard, it's my first post to this list (;

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Freerunner test

2008-05-31 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Mike Montour [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin Dean wrote:

 Unscientific testing, yes. The echo is still there. :)

 s/)/(/

 Can you please add a note about this to bug #1267? How bad was the echo -
 enough that a normal person would complain about it, or something that would
 only be noticed if they listened carefully?

I've updated that bug. :)


 I'm getting
 annoying GSM buzz on the Freerunner when using certain SIM cards (I
 need to confirm this with more SIM cards).

 A note about this on bug #883 would also be good.

I'd like to reconfirm this before reporting, or at least kill my
theory before reporting on it and creating a false lead. It seems that
the SIM itself is important. Sitting at my computer desk and switching
the card in my 1973 for the one in my Freerunner causes the Freerunner
to buzz but doesn't affect the 1973. Now, it's possible there's
something else (perhaps my wireless mouse, my speaker system, my
monitor) actually causing this, so I'd like to test the same in
different environments and buy a 4th SIM card to another control.



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Freerunner test

2008-05-30 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 4:35 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yorick Matthys wrote:

 I don't know how to post on the mailing list (shame on me, I know...)
 although i read every mail that gets posted on them, so I write it directly
 to your e-mail address.

 If you're subscribed to the mailing list, just address messages to
 community@lists.openmoko.org and everyone will get a copy.

 could you also give an indication for how long it takes to get a gps fix
 (cold/warm start) ? Or about the audio quality with a standard headset?
 I understand completely if you can't be bothered with these questions, if
 so, please excuse me; it's just I'm so damn anxious to get my hands on a
  freerunner :-).


 I haven't done any audio or GPS tests on my Freerunner yet. Have any of the
 other Freerunner testers done anything in this regard?

Unscientific testing, yes. The echo is still there. :) I'm getting
annoying GSM buzz on the Freerunner when using certain SIM cards (I
need to confirm this with more SIM cards). It sounds as if the
Freerunner has the capability to be louder but calls seem quieter
(though this is configurable).

I've done nothing with GPS since the ASU doesn't have a functional GPS
app yet but I might poke at it with a 2007.02 image and TangoGPS this
weekend.


 If not, I'll try some testing this weekend if I can figure out how to get
 the GPS working.

 Ian

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My experience with the Freerunner

2008-05-27 Thread Kevin Dean
Yeah, there are GTA01 images for the ASU, I've tested them.

Not too much to report, ASU is almost totally non-functional but it
gives a good view of it's potential.

I planned on doing video over this weekend but I got sick for the
first time in almost three years. *growls*

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 steve wrote:

 Ian got a phone with the Apps based on GTK. everyone will.

 However, I wanted to let the community see the NEXT STEP.
 So the next step ( ASU) is now public. you need a GTA02 to appreciate it.
 and even then it's a raw first look at pre alpha software.

 Actually, I believe they started making images for gta01 as well.
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/

 They are the Openmoko-openmoko-qtopia-x11-image files.

 Be sure to also update your kernel.




 --
 Lorn 'ljp' Potter
 Software Engineer, Systems Group, MES, Trolltech

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: software load for first mfg run of Freerunner? Is ASU what ships?

2008-05-25 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am NOT asking if mass production has started.

 I am asking if OpenMoko has frozen a release to
 load into the microSD cards. It seems to me that the unit can come off
 the line, and that one of the final steps before packing would be to load
 the
 software.

Firstly, yes, the software has been chosen. It's one of the older
versions of the 2007.2 stack, the one you're used to if you have a
1973 or if you've toyed with Qemu in the past year. This will get you
basic phone calls, SMS, a limited media player and so on.

Secondly, and while this is nit-picky, the software isn't on the
microSD card (though you CAN boot software installed on the SD card)
its in NAND Flash. The reason I mention this is because both the
Freerunner and the 1973 include a microSD card of 512MB, a size most
people would find to small for everyday use once you start using it
as a digital music player, a storage device for pictures et cetera.

You can install a microSD of your own into it without having to do any
software copying before you boot it the first time. :)


 Is ASU the* ship[ping s/w load?

 yes I know people can and will download new s/w.
 but you'd hope that the Freerunner as shipped would not
 require an immediate s/w reload.

The software that ships to developers will not be the software that
mainstream users will have installed. For a mainstream device,
making the user install the software is dumb. That said, between the
developer release and mainstream release the software (ASU) will be
developed and improved upon so rapidly that it's possible that by the
time the device is actually in your hand that the ASU would have also
become usable enough to move to and poke at and report bugs on.


 Or maybe I'm being too old skool ???
 --
 Ron K. Jeffries
 http://blog.eronj.com




 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: sales tax on freerunners

2008-05-25 Thread Kevin Dean
There's no American tax. I was chatting with a friend from Croatia
who was confused by how American sales tax works because apparently
it's more common elsewhere (or particularly in Europe) to roll the
sales tax (VAT?) into the advertised price of the good. In America,
each state has it's own sales tax laws (not all states have sales tax)
which only applies to goods sold within the state. Americans  suffer
no sales taxes on the national level (yet...).

Furthermore, when I bought my Neo 1973 it appeared on my debit card as
a purchase from FIC's Taiwan headquarters and NOT the California
location where it shipped from so I wasn't charged a direct tax for
that purchase. Of course, somewhere along the line, the price was
inflated as some government skimmed off the top of commerce, but
that's factored into the quoted price, and I'm sure you're asking only
about taxes applied directly to the end consumer (in this case, you).

On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 while i was looking up the gst/duty i'll have to pay for importing my
 freerunner, this occurred to me - is american/californian/whatever
 sales tax included already in the price of the phone? will i be taxed
 twice, or will your local tax only be applied for local purchases?

 this might seem like a dumb question, but i've bought plenty of stuff
 from another country where the seller included tax even though it's
 being shipped abroad

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Qtopia Vs. GTK or both?

2008-05-24 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 10:59 AM, Marcel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Am Samstag 24 Mai 2008 14:47:03 schrieb rakshat hooja:
 I am not to sure how many  people have seen the Neo software stack diagram
 on the wiki but after looking at it there really should not be a GTK Vs
 Qtopia argument any more. But I do wonder how Android fits in?

 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoSoftwareStack


 Rakshat

 Isn't this diagram outdated?

Yep.

http://www.vanille-media.de/images/OpenmokoFramework.png


 -Marcel

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

2008-05-24 Thread Kevin Dean
Having had a chance to briefly poke around at the ASU, I think that's
a great choice. :)


On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 2:10 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 All of the initial phones that ship from Openmoko.com are planned to ship
 with the legacy version of the Openmoko Stack and it's GTK applications.

 The base set of applications, dialer, SMS, and contacts, have been released
 to manufacturing.  So anyone who wants to take this release and build on it
 is free to do so.

 We will also make available for download a new set of applications and
 QTopia. I don't have a final release date or gold master date on those
 applications, but what we have shown people in the ASU is definitely pre
 alpha.

 Until the new software is ready for manufacturing release the phones will
 ship with the familiar old stack.



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean
 Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 12:10 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

 On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Awesome! Thank you very much.

 No problem. :)


 What about the software? Did it came with QTopia?

 It actually came installed with an older version of the Openmoko
 Stack, with the familiar GTK applications. It didn't work very well
 and it's since been erased. :) I am under the impression that the
 version shipped once it's on sale will have a small set of Qtopia
 based applications working and that updates will be released shortly
 after that to add functionality.

 So, what came installed on the one I have probably won't be installed
 on the ones purchased from Openmoko.com or from a reseller.

 And sorry if I'me getting it wrong (my english is
 not very good) but first you wrote no accesories
 and next you wrote it came with a headset and the
 laser/led/pens stylus. Ain't those accesories?

 I wrote The Freerunner doesn't come without accessories, however.
 which is probably a bit confusing. :) My apologies. This means it DID
 come with some. It is not lacking accessories is probably a more
 clear way to phrase that.



 Well, I have a lot of questions, but I think I'll
 better let those who know how to ask make them.

 You're doing well enough. :) Any questions you have might help me
 decide what ends up in the reviews I write, so I'd appreciate the
 input. :)


 Thanks again

 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible-

 Kevin Dean escribió:

 I recieved my Openmoko Freerunner sample this morning via DHL, and
 like I did with the Neo1973, I took lots of pictures and blogged about
 it.

 Some of the pictures aren't the greatest (poor lighting in my bedroom
 and a photographer I am not!) but they get the idea across. The write
 up also gives a few tidbits of opinion on some of the changes that
 seem to get overlooked.

 Anyway, the writeup can be read at:



 http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunn
 er.html

 -Kevin Dean

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Re[2]: Video of production device?

2008-05-24 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 4:04 PM, t3st3r [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Original Message-
 From: Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion community@lists.openmoko.org
 Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 18:51:00 -0600
 Subject: Re: Video of production device?

  Is there video of the production FreeRunner in use? I found
  http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi posted by Kevin
  Dean on May 19th. Is that video of shipping software or just a concept
  video?
 If someone cares I dislike such UI.Even on video playback it can be seen that 
 sometimes some sliding effects are somewhat slow.And, what is slightly worse, 
 UI has too few items per screen and over-uses this nasty sliding.So on this 
 video I can see just a permanent nasty scrolling and sliding.IMHO such UI is 
 neither well optimized for stilus- or finger-driven UI nor comfortable in 
 sense that there should be as few levels of nested menus as possible.

It's actually well optimized for the stylus and finger. Openmoko's
2007.2 stack is HORRIBLE for finger based usage, and while Qtopia is a
bit better, it's still pretty bad. The ASU makes selection (via
sliding) easy. Text is also pretty big and easy to select.

From video it looks like dealing with such menu system is a real PITA.

Much easier than hitting a tiny square with my finger.

Sliding is great effect and looks great and I like it.If it's not overused as 
here in this example.

You can still use the icon based app selection screen (ala Qtopia or
iPhone) and is infact the default. Illume is shown off because it's
actually creative.


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Qte or Qt?

2008-05-24 Thread Kevin Dean
Qt has been adapted for X11. This is why GTK apps will still be supported.

On Sat, May 24, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Bin Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 As ASU switched to Qt, to ensure the coexistence of GTK+ and QT, the
 backend should be chosen to X11. As I know, QTE only support
 framebuffer backend, so OM use desktop QT but not QTE?

 Thanks.
 Bin

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

2008-05-23 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Awesome! Thank you very much.

No problem. :)


 What about the software? Did it came with QTopia?

It actually came installed with an older version of the Openmoko
Stack, with the familiar GTK applications. It didn't work very well
and it's since been erased. :) I am under the impression that the
version shipped once it's on sale will have a small set of Qtopia
based applications working and that updates will be released shortly
after that to add functionality.

So, what came installed on the one I have probably won't be installed
on the ones purchased from Openmoko.com or from a reseller.

 And sorry if I'me getting it wrong (my english is
 not very good) but first you wrote no accesories
 and next you wrote it came with a headset and the
 laser/led/pens stylus. Ain't those accesories?

I wrote The Freerunner doesn't come without accessories, however.
which is probably a bit confusing. :) My apologies. This means it DID
come with some. It is not lacking accessories is probably a more
clear way to phrase that.



 Well, I have a lot of questions, but I think I'll
 better let those who know how to ask make them.

You're doing well enough. :) Any questions you have might help me
decide what ends up in the reviews I write, so I'd appreciate the
input. :)


 Thanks again

 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible-

 Kevin Dean escribió:

 I recieved my Openmoko Freerunner sample this morning via DHL, and
 like I did with the Neo1973, I took lots of pictures and blogged about
 it.

 Some of the pictures aren't the greatest (poor lighting in my bedroom
 and a photographer I am not!) but they get the idea across. The write
 up also gives a few tidbits of opinion on some of the changes that
 seem to get overlooked.

 Anyway, the writeup can be read at:


 http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner.html

 -Kevin Dean

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

2008-05-23 Thread Kevin Dean
Hrm... I've been having issues off and on too.

I'll tranfer the site to a new server when I get to work, hopefully
that will help.

-Kevin

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:14 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin Dean wrote:

 Anyway, the writeup can be read at:

 It's about a day (since it has been posted on planet) that I can't connect
 to your site! :(

 --
 Treviño's World - Life and Linux
 http://www.3v1n0.net/


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Video of production device?

2008-05-23 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Vinc Duran wrote:

 Is there video of the production FreeRunner in use? I found
 http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi posted by Kevin
 Dean on May 19th. Is that video of shipping software or just a concept
 video?

 That's a video about a first Illume implementation by Rasterman, it has been
 posted on illume project page [1] some months ago.

Illume works. It's real code that you can download and compile
yourself. ;) There have been changes, of course, and the real thing
doesn't appear as polished as that video does but this is still
relatively new in terms of being functional.


 It would be great if Ian or someone with a production unit could video
 typical usage of the three main ready applications. Dialer, contacts,
 and sms if I remember.

 I agree!
 Anwyway also few screenshots on scap.linuxtogo.org would be enough for me
 :P.

I poked around briefly yesterday and didn't see a way in ASU to take
screenshots. (I did discover one of my neighbors has an unsecured wifi
access point) so for the time being I'll have to either make bad
quality video or find out what screenshot app is on the 2007.2 images
and install that.



 [1] http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/

 --
 Treviño's World - Life and Linux
 http://www.3v1n0.net/


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

2008-05-23 Thread Kevin Dean
My VPS provider was upgrading the hardware and decided to upgrade my
plan because of the interruption. I thank you for the offer, but I
don't think it'll be needed, it seems stuff is loading again now. :)

-Kevin

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Kevin, David, Marco, Bastian,

 I just clicked the link again and I got the page nice and easy.
 If you want me to mirror it somewhere else just let me know.

 Kevin, I have a nice server if you want to use it. It'll be an
 honor to host your stuff.

 Cheers

 Kosa

 - Un mundo mejor es posible -

 Bastian Muck escribió:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I have the same Problem. :-(

 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) schrieb:
 | Kevin Dean wrote:
 | Anyway, the writeup can be read at:
 |
 | It's about a day (since it has been posted on planet) that I can't
 connect to your site! :(
 |

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
 Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFINtpPlYiDScJJ+7QRAkNAAKCJvUe2yBhbPjgN5WRiSaz7PGijvwCeILCm
 fHERRfdNQiWmbK/MDpuJXJQ=
 =QcBV
 -END PGP SIGNATURE-


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: GTA01 battery charge circuit: ID pin?

2008-05-23 Thread Kevin Dean
Wurp wrote an applet that adds a LOT of functionality to the 1973.
Install the applet on you phone and then force it to fast charge when
connected to a charger and you're golden. Charge on the go, using a
wall charger or a car charger. :)

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/CheckFastCharge-script

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Major A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 I have a GTA01 and want to use it even when I don't carry a computer
 with me. I read that the battery charge circuit of the GTA02 will
 switch to high current if a 48k resistor is present between the
 mini-USB ID pin and ground. Does this also apply to the GTA01, i.e.,
 is it worth hacking up a cable for that model?

 Thanks,

  Andras

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


My blog, Freerunner FIrst Impressions and some pics

2008-05-22 Thread Kevin Dean
I recieved my Openmoko Freerunner sample this morning via DHL, and
like I did with the Neo1973, I took lots of pictures and blogged about
it.

Some of the pictures aren't the greatest (poor lighting in my bedroom
and a photographer I am not!) but they get the idea across. The write
up also gives a few tidbits of opinion on some of the changes that
seem to get overlooked.

Anyway, the writeup can be read at:

http://monochromementality.com/index.php/blog/show/Day-One-Openmoko-Freerunner.html

-Kevin Dean

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions

2008-05-20 Thread Kevin Dean
ASU is literally the April Software Update. Three letter acronyms
give it more geek cred. :)

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Richard Reichenbacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 What does ASU stand for anyways?  It makes me nervous knowing that the
 phones software shares the same initials with my rival University.

 Richard

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions

2008-05-19 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I have been using a FreeRunner for a few days with a pre-pre-alpha
 snapshot of the ASU software.

I've done Daily Snapshot Reviews since January. I enjoy bug hunting
and communication. Where can I get this image? Does it run on a
Neo1973?

 For those who have been off-list for a
 while, or who have not been looking at the Wiki much, the April
 Software Update switches the Window Manager from matchbox to
 Enlightenment (E17) and the main applications from the GTK-based apps
 (developed by OpenMoko and OpenedHand) to QTopia (but using X11, of course).

 The new phone is in the same case, so it looks and feels a lot like a
 GTA01. I think the partition numbers for dfu-util have changed; newer
 versions of dfu-util allow you to use the partition names instead of the
 numbers. Beware.

 The Home Page (aka Launcher) can now be displayed either in an Icon Grid
 (conventional cell phone style, e.g., Blackberry, and the traditional
 QTopia format) or a slider style (the latter demonstrated by MokoNinja
 here: http://people.openmoko.org/ninjutsu/freerunner1.4.swf (flash
 required).

For those without Flash, here's a video of the same concept.
http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/illume-vv-01.avi


 The small home/current-apps menu has been replaced by a larger
 slide-down top panel, listing the current apps, and containing the time,
 battery panel, GSM on/off, qwerty keyboard on/off, Configuration, and
 the Enlightenment menu.

 Neither of the above is, AFAIK, cast in stone.

 I must admit I have mixed feelings about the switch from OM/GTK apps to
 QTopia.

I personally had those reservations as well. From a non-technical
standpoint, I think Openmoko did right by me. I know nothing about
hackability on a code level, but I know my previous dislike of Qtopia
was because of the lack of flexbility from not running on X11. I also
had doubts... Qtopia has been around for a while and never made waves
but Openmoko held promise. I felt making the switch to Qtopia was a
comprimise on that.

However, I don't think so now. The work done to port Qtopia to Xorg
created a LOT of opportunity for the Open part of the Openmoko
mission statement to be true. Third part developers have just as much
ability to hack as they do with the 2007.1 stack (arguably more so)
now that the base includes Qtopia but allows for other languages and
toolkits. I think this will be made even easier with the service-based
approach that will expose functionality cleanly across those
toolkits/languages.

However, I recognize the need to get something finished in a
 reasonable time and I infer Sean et al felt the need to go this way;

Sometimes people forget that Openmoko Inc. can't make hackable phones
unless they SELL hackable phones. Hardware isn't free. Staffing,
advertising, fabrication, procurement, shipping, design (et cetera)
costs money. I think everyone here can truly respect that, if not like
it. I'm happy that Openmoko was able to make a decision that will
generate revenue more quickly without comprimising the objectives in
the first place.

 in hindsight, building the whole thing from scratch is a daunting task,
 and something that QTopia has been honing for several years.

Free Software projects have one major strength - the ability to share.
I don't see collaboration and adaptation to be a bad thing at all. I'm
actually kind of glad that Qtopia will be an included part of
Openmoko. Including it doesn't diminish the ability for someone to
write the application they would have liked to see as Openmoko but
it does give people who aren't writing apps some more functional
applications.


 The QTopia apps do have a somewhat more conventional cell phone
 feel to them (see my screenshot of the Contacts Overview page here:
 http://www.darwinsys.com/tmp/contacts1.png).

This is good for a mass market product, I think. Having a hackable
phone aimed at end users is a good way to go. For the users who never
want to tweak, let it be familiar. For users who are fine hacking,
give them the power to. With the expansions of Qtopia by the Om dev
team, I think that balance it being struck.


 So, I think we're in good hands here. On to the experience.

 Short form: functionally, it works.  Among other things, the phone wakes
 up reliably on incoming rings (assuming it's booted and suspended, of
 course), and GSM voice works after a resume.

 There are still some minor glitches. I hope I'm not out of line
 reporting these here, given how pre-pre my software is, but Steve has
 been asking me to report on this list since my FreeRunner arrived. I
 remind everybody reading this to remember that this is PRE-PRE-RELEASE
 software. None of this intended as criticism of those who worked under time
 deadline to make this early release ready for the show I was presenting OM
 at!  Nonetheless these are things that I would not like to have fall through
 the cracks.

 1) Incoming calls do wake up the phone, 

Re: ASU software - pre-pre-release impressions

2008-05-19 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Fredrik Wendt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Travis Tabbal [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Carlo E. Prelz wrote:

 Those apps are the heart of the phone, and I would not want to have
 C++/QT versions running on my phone.

 I really don't understand the sentiment there. If the app works well and gets
 the job done, why does it matter what language it's written in or what widget
 toolkit it uses?

 Language DOES matter. We use English on this list. I doubt that 50 % of those
 involved and interested in this wonderful project have English as their mother
 tounge.

Programming language. :) Openmoko's new software stack is language
agnostic. A Python app works cleanly with a C++, for instance.


 We're all just interacting with and describing the same physical world, yet
 there are so many different ways to go about it and, basically, people tend to
 not be as fluent in more than one or two languages. Hence, if you want people 
 to
 get up to speed and act naturally with as few obstacles as possible in the 
 way
 - then you'll want to choose language(s)/environment used carefully.

 My two euro cents.

 / Fredrik


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: microSD support

2008-05-09 Thread Kevin Dean
It's also worth noting that the 32GB limit is also artificial. 2048GB
is the technical limit for SDHC, if I recall correctly.

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Stefan Misch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Crane, Matthew wrote:

 The SD card association has limtied the size of sdhc to 32gb, the max
 size of a fat32 system.

 I just want to give a short note that this is not true. Fat32 supports
 partition size of up to 2TiB. Microsoft artificially limited Windows 2000
 and following to be able to create Fat32 partitions of max 32GiB. Using
 other tools to create them (such as mkfs.vfat) it's still possible to
 create those partitions. And Windows reads and writes to them.

 Of course now that there's a reasonable stable NTFS access from Linux it
 doesn't matter that much anymore but a few years back this was quite a pain
 in the ass.

 just my 0.02€
 Stefan


  No doubt there's a lot of crappy SD cards out there that don't comply
 well to standard interfaces though, but unless you're really really
 skimping there's likely nothing to worry about with any common microsd
 cards.
  You could even support larger cards because we aren't limited to fat32
 on a linux phone.
  But has anybody found an SD card that doesn't work with existing
 hardware??   I only wish I had hardware so I can't test the few cards I
 have..  Matt

  

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Tabbal
 Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 9:52 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: microSD support


 I think he's asking if the phone will support SDHC, which is required
 for larger cards and many older devices do not support. Or perhaps if
 8GB in particular has been tested. It would be nice to know exactly what
 is supported, as those 8GB cards are getting cheap lately. We might have
 to wait for the first phones to ship to know for sure what will or will
 not work. Right now, only the OM dev team at FIC could test it for sure,
 and they are kind of busy getting mass production going. I think I'd
 rather have them do that and test the microSD size limits later.


 On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:



From wikipedia entry on current sd cards:

Memory capacity = (C_SIZE+1) * 512 K = (222-1+1) * 512 K =
 (4194304-1+1)
* 512K = 2147483648 K = 2048 GB

So you're probally good.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
 Giorgio M.
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 6:53 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: microSD support


I know that freerunner will support MicroSD memory.

I want know wich capacity it will support?can i use 8GB
 microSD??

what is the limit?

thanks


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community






 

 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


 ___
 Openmoko community mailing list
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Wiki distorted in Firefox 3?

2008-05-05 Thread Kevin Dean
Iceweasel 3 shows the sidebar moved to the bottom.

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:20 PM, MartinG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 5/5/08, Tomas Gustavsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I'm running Firefox 3 Beta 5 in Ubuntu 8.04 and the OpenMoko wiki menu
(the one to the left) is placed a long way down (instead of at the
top). Is this a Firefox bug or a css problem?
 
  Same goes for the Opera browser [1] - the menu comes after the rest of
  the text, down to the right. I think it has been like this for a long
  time, and for many versions of opera (9.x). I now use 9.50 Beta 2, and
  the problem persists.
 
  I think the problem was there also when the wiki was bug free (see
  validator.w3.org).
 
  best,
  MartinG
 
 
  [1] http://www.opera.com
 
 
 

 hmm :)

 I use swiftfox in 3 series since month and I was believing it was normal :)

 Looking it  with iceweasel 2* show me the menu on top effectively


 --
 Steven Le Roux
 Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

2008-05-01 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you
  could do this.

Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm
subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even
considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to
wade through.

Thanks!


  --
  Steven Kurylo



  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

2008-05-01 Thread Kevin Dean
That's quite useful, thanks!

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think this is what  you're looking for:

  http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html



  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread.
  
  
  
   On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
   
  If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you
  could do this.
   
Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm
subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even
considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to
wade through.
   
Thanks!
   

  --
   
   
   
  Steven Kurylo



  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

   
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
   
  
  
  
  
   --
   Geoff Ruscoe
   Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
   ___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  
  

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Shipping Specs for Freerunner (Was: Group Sales: U.S. Midwest area)

2008-05-01 Thread Kevin Dean
Okay, so I just did some number crunching using the information Steve
gave and honestly, there's no reason at all the 10-packs need to be
broken up by region.

It costs $14.40 to ship a 10-pack from Fremont, CA to Frederick, MD
where I live (which is pretty close to across the country).

$3,690 + $14.40 = 3704.4 delivered or $370.44 per phone before shipping.

Here's the beautiful thing. Shipping a single unit (from a 10 pack)
back, from Frederick, MD to Fremont, CA is $9.95 by UPS Ground which
would bring the total cost per unit to $380.39.

Assuming that Openmoko's Fremont shipping place is NOT getting a
volume discount then the savings over a single unit would be $28.56 if
shipped ACROSS COUNTRY both ways.

For fun, I decided what it would cost to ship the unit from home to
work (as might be done if buying regionally) in Alexandria, VA. The
diffrerence in shipping is barely noticable, that a shipment of less
than 60 miles makes it less than $2 cheaper.

The point is, I horribly overestimated UPS shipping costs and there's
actually quite a bit of savings from going in on a 10-pack. That said,
I also discovered that doing regional purchases doesn't save much
money over doing national purchases. Guys in groups falling short
could easily pick up a small group across the country and cash in on
the bulk savings. People picking up their phones (perhaps at a LUG
meet) can even score an extra $8 to $10 savings over having it
shipped.

Neat. :)

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's quite useful, thanks!



  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Tomas Di Domenico [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I think this is what  you're looking for:
  
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/016379.html
  
  
  
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Its on community for April ... Not sure I remember which thread.



 On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 5:27 PM, Steven Kurylo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
If you search the archives, Steve already gave us the specs so you
could do this.
 
  Can you drop any more hints on where specifically to find this? I'm
  subscribed to all of the Openmoko lists except kernel-dev and even
  considering that I know it came from Steve, that's a lot of crap to
  wade through.
 
  Thanks!
 
  
--
 
 
 
Steven Kurylo
  
  
  
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 




 --
 Geoff Ruscoe
 Sigma Visions Computer Consulting
 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


  
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Group Sales, distribution model

2008-05-01 Thread Kevin Dean
Hi Dale,

I just made a post to that other list and broke it down. It's good
news in general, even shipping it there's about a $28 savings. There's
even a decent savings if you combine groups anywhere in the country.
Mostly coast to cost single unit shipment is about $10 and shipping
locally (i.e. about 50 miles) is about $8.50 so shipping from Austin
to Dallas isn't MUCH cheaper than shipping Austin to Duluth. Certainly
doing that would save you money over not buying a 10-pack.

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-May/016671.html

-Kevin

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Dale Schumacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 As Kevin notes, the marginal savings on a 10-pack is pretty thin.  For
 planning purposes size and weight details are useful, but I thought they
 were posted previously.

 Currently there are 4 people showing interest in Austin, TX and 1 in Dallas,
 TX.  This does not include the 2 current Neo1973 owners, who have not
 expressed a desire to be part of this 10-pack.  If we get enough interest
 for a 10-pack, I am assuming that people will either pick up their device in
 person, or pay for additional shipping, at their option.  If that is not
 cost effective for them, and it very well may not be in the case of
 re-shipping, then they should order directly.  I will be ordering directly
 if there is not sufficient local interest.  The individual in Dallas may
 have reason to visit Austin, or other means of obtaining cost-effective
 transportation for his device.  If not, then I'm sure he will also order
 directly.

 Clearly details like these must be worked out for each local group, but
 should be done OFF LIST.  I've described my expectations as simply an
 example of the choices to be made.

  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ...
 
  Are there any size or weight dimensions known about the Freerunner
  packages? How much will the 10-pack weigh? How much will a single
  using weight?
 
  ...
 
  Openmoko guys! Can you give us the specs so that those interested in
  bulk purchases can figure out the logistics of shipping versus
  individual sales and then factor that into the regions that will be
  used to organize bulk purchases?
 
  Thanks.
 


 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: 10 PACK UPDATE!!!

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean
I've not had ANYONE comment it's ugly but just about everyone I've
handed it to said It's HUGE.

I personally LOVE it, I'm huge too. :)

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It was the GTA01.. the first pics I saw of the GTA02 was last week.  I
 showed both colors of the GTA01.  I got the impression was it was the shape
 that was a turn off but I am not sure because I never asked for that kind of
 detail.  Although I do have to admit I'd never heard it called a buttplug
 before.  That's an interesting observation.

 If I were to make three recommendation for GTA03 (or whatever the consumer
 version is going to be), it would be focus group, focus group, focus
 group.

 L



 On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
   Nine out of ten typical consumers I show it to think it's ugly and
 wouldn't buy it because of looks alone.
  
 
  Are you showing them a black one?  Its a lot sexier than the gta01 in my
 opinion.
 
  But, that doesn't matter: the most common feedback I get is that, in spite
 of external appearances, even the GUI is horrendously ugly too ..
 
  ;
  --
  Jay Vaughan
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 


 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Kentucky / Indiana Group Order

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean
I figured that the person who started a KY/IN group would be from
Louisville or New Albany and not from Indy, Fort Wayne or Lexington.

Keep in mind when forming the groups that if it still needs to be
shipped (as opposed to physically delivered) there isn't much savings.
You're saving $30 by buying in groups - if you spend $20 in shipping
or gas, you're not really getting that great of a deal.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri April 25 2008 3:30:13 pm Geoff Ruscoe wrote:
   Louisville, KY
  
   On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Joseph Jon Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   wrote:
On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:16:09 -0400
   
Geoff Ruscoe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Anyone from around here interested in getting a group order together?
   
Where in IN/KY are you guys? Is Chicago too far away for this group?
   
--
Joseph Booker

  I'm in Kokomo, pretty much right between you both.  It's up to you guys 
 wether
  you want to all meet in Indiana or have separate groups for each state.



  --
  
  Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://onedollarlinux.com
  BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

  Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
  See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

2008-04-25 Thread Kevin Dean
Using Bobby's application the iGo charged fast charges my Neo1973 and
it doesn't set fire to my Element. That's good enough in my book. :)

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 6:10 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I just plug it in and see if smoke comes out.


  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Dean

 Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:07 PM
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
  Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?



 So... Here's the magical question. How would an average user like
  myself find that out without buying equipment to test it if the
  manufacturer didn't include actualy numbers (or in my case, if the
  manufacturer specifies a range of possibilities)?

  On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
   My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA
  
-id
  
  
  
  
  
For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but
  I
   didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.
   
-id
   
  
  
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: GTA03 wish list (was: What US plans are people using?)

2008-04-24 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Steven **
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't think the games were ported.  I thought they were just a
  simply cross-compile to show that they would work on Openmoko.

  I think the intention is that you should be able to do most things
  without a stylus.  It says essentially that on
  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications#Overview

  That said, this is opensource!  You can't force every developer to
  design their program for finger operation.

A point of clarification... I'm not referring to every app, I'm
referring specifically to the applications that Openmoko will be
releasing. Perhaps this is an incorrect assumption, but I am under the
impression that Openmoko Inc. will be writing and releasing software
to do the things their hardware devices are advertised as being able
to do. They say GPS Navigation and I assume Openmoko Inc. will
provide customers with a GPS navigation application. Same for dialer
(since the device is advertised as being able to make phone calls) and
so on. the device isn't advertised as a home automation remote
control, but it MIGHT be if the user decided to go beyond what the
consumer device is being sold to do.

Someone can write an application in Qt 4.4 and SAY it's a Gnome
application, but it's not. Likewise, if it doesn't conform to the
guidelines specified for Openmoko it's not really an Openmoko app,
if that makes sense.

  Some app just might not be
  usable without a stylus and that's up to the developer.  If you don't
  like it, modify the source and change the GUI.

Keep in mind that Freerunner is designed to be a mass market product.
That's very true that this can be done but making that action a
REQUIREMENT for consistant applications is directly opposite the ideas
of a mass market device.


  The one thing I've written[1] was specifically designed to be
  finger-friendly as I don't intend to carry a stylus around with me
  either.

  -Steven

  [1] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/moko-sudoku/


  On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   One of the objectives of openmoko is to no need to use the stylus
   at all ...  When devels talk about mokofy (port to openmoko) some
   aplication one of the chalenges is to use it with out stylus.
  
Either this is NOT a real goal of Openmoko or the developers suck at
it. There are SEVERAL applications on Openmoko that require a stylus
(many of the games, for instance). As far as I know, the criteria
Openmoko apps must be usable with fingers has never been set.



 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

2008-04-24 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:47 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 my razr charger draws 850.

  I haven't check my igo charger, Kevin is the IGO usb  100ma or 500ma?


This may be a trick question... I don't have an AC iGo, I have a DC
iGO car charger.

http://info.igo.com/mobility/datasheets/auto8.pdf


  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
  Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
  Subject: Re: Freerunner AC adaptor

  Just as a comparison, since my workplace just got me a Blackberry World
  Phone (8830), here's a photo of the power adapters that come with it,
  which I guess connect to the standard American power plug.

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/2435261066/

  For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but
  I didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.

  -id


  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Freerunner AC adaptor.. Kevin dean you there?

2008-04-24 Thread Kevin Dean
So... Here's the magical question. How would an average user like
myself find that out without buying equipment to test it if the
manufacturer didn't include actualy numbers (or in my case, if the
manufacturer specifies a range of possibilities)?

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 3:59 PM, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My new Blackberry 8830 charger draws 500mA

  -id





  For what it's worth, the Blackberry charger also ends in a USB plug, but I
 didn't check the wall plug portion to see how many mA it draws.
 
  -id
 


  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: What US plans are people using?

2008-04-22 Thread Kevin Dean
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Travis Tabbal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks for the info. T-Mobile seems to have good coverage here. It sounds
 like the Total Internet plan is the way to go. I'm looking forward to the
 release of Freerunner. I love being able to add/change software on my phone.
 I've been waiting to buy a new phone for Freerunner. Has the 850Mhz issue
 been resolved?

That issues actually confuses the hell out of me. :)

Per the wiki Will a modification to my Neo 1973 (GTA01bv4) be
possible? As of Feb 08, it has been confirmed by OpenMoko that this is
not possible 
(http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/US_850_band_users_wanting_to_sell_Neo)

This implies that a GTA01bv4 can NOT use 850 mhz. But my Neo1973 works
PERFECTLY in the USA, which means either it DOES support 850mhz OR
that the LACK of 850mhz is irrelevant.




 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Progress on GTA01 power management issues !

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Fredrik Markström
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Still no official comments on this issue ?

  Until this is resolved I advice newcomers to be careful before
  spending $399 on another piece of potentially
  useless hardware (GTA02).

If you think your GTA01 is useless, I'll buy it from you for $5 USD...
I'd love to have a spare battery for mine. I use the Neo1973 as my
primary phone and digital audio player. Furthermore, it's powered by
Free Software except for the bits that I'm explicitly informed are
NOT. Respecting my property rights is quite valuable IMO. The device
is functional enough to be used for me.

I'd advise ANYONE making value judgements to look at the definition of
value. It's inherently different for everyone, which is why the
ideas of commerce and sale and free markets work - because the
value of a good is different for one person than another and when that
exchange of values benefits BOTH parties, it is a good sale.

Power management issues are well known on GTA01 and there are people
who still think the device is a good value, myself included.  People
should evaluate their own uses and decide from themselves. Keep in
mind that without selling the Freerunner, there won't BE an improved
device.

 From my point of view openmoko might be as
  silent and unresponsive, using busy
  with nextgen hardware as an excuse with any future hardware revision.

As opposed to every other device manufacturer? I've never had Nokia or
Motorola or Samsung or anyone else fix my problems right away. One the
flip side, Openmoko is pretty clear about what's happening.
Furthermore, they were also pretty clear when I entered my credit card
information into the online storefront that there WOULD be issues with
the device and that it was a developer's edition.


  The iPhone is not open but at least useful, and also $399 !

And yet, this is the Openmoko community list, full of people who are
interested in Openmoko products. Some of us don't care one iota about
the iPhone because (again, that value thing) it's not worth our money.
For me, I'd not pay to be in Apple's golden cage - I'm sure others
fell the same way. For other people, iPhone is a social cliche -
useless because it's popular. If the iPhone is better than a product
offered by Openmoko, spend your money on an iPhone instead.


  /Fredrik

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: 99

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
For the record, my tip a programmer thing was almost pure sarcasm. I
find this discussion to be amusing by the level of absurdity in it.

On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:57 AM, ramsesoriginal
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ok, so first, i also would like to see 400$ instead of 399$, because
  it's simply a matter of being honest.

How is Openmoko charging $399 dishonest?  Do you REALLY believe there
are people on the planet who are such consumer sheep that they'd part
with $399 but would be able to resist a $400 product?

I could PERHAPS see your arguement if Openmoko's advertising said
something like Affordably priced under four-hundred dollars I'd
think that MIGHT (and even that hesitantly) be misleading. This hasn't
been said. The FreeRunner will ship from Openmoko.com at $399. is
what was said, a simple statement of fact.

In the end, the price is $399. If you want to pay that, cool. Do so.
If you have a problem with that price, don't buy it. It is a decision
EVERY potential buyer will have to make based on their own criteria.
No human being can think for another.


  Then the bounty for code: i would rather see bountyes for bugfixes:
  everyoen likes to implement new features, but nobody lieks maintaining
  code. Another way of Bounty for developers that I really would like
  is that the developers put there hoem adress somewhere in the wiki,
  and then the user who like the feature can send him a postcard/thank
  you card. A bit like Linus Torvalds originally made for Linux. That's
  something that really would push me, as a developer, to do more. Maybe
  it would help even more then a sporadic 5$ on my paypal account.

  And for the openmoko subscription/club/frequent buyers: This coul be a
  really great idea. A yearly membership fee, but for three
  recommendations you get it for free (so if I recommend the phone to
  three people i get the membership for free), and members get access to
  a membership card, a pouch and a special homepage, where they can
  browse all openmoko community created products and maybe get a 10%
  discount or something like that. And at the yearly OpenmokoCon (and we
  sure are going to make it, aren't we?) the members get reserved places
  at the talks :D

  Jsut my two EuroCents

  --
  My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org



  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Openmoko sounds, Motto

2008-04-21 Thread Kevin Dean
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Georg Michelitsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Concerning the soundset (if I understood right you meant something like a
 standard sound for the phone-startup as a lot of other companies pratice) I
 think a human voice saying Openmoko - Open mobile communication would be a
 nice alternation to Free your phone or open. mobile. free .. Even if I
 like the last two better as a motto I think that the first one suits better
 for some kind of system sound..

I personally think a human voice is a bad choice. There's NO point in
making a universal sound if it won't be universally understood.
Openmoko's uses may well extend beyond those we think of right now
which may extend into areas that wouldn't recognize (or worse, would
find offensive) a human voice. I recall someone once raising the
question of Would a south east asian rice farmer understand the
meaning of the house icon, given that his house looks nothing like
it?


  cu, Georg




  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: 99

2008-04-20 Thread Kevin Dean
I'm happy paying $399 for all ye who feel the need to pay $400 to make
it even. :P Though, I'll hop on the even bandwagon if it's dropped as
long as Openmoko makes profit. :)

If you really want to pay more, you could set up a Tip a Developer program...

-Kevin

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 7:13 PM, Daniel Selinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:11:59 +0200
  Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
   The prices for GTA02 and the debug board are $399 and $99,
   respectively. While there's nothing wrong with charging exactly 99
   dollars for something, the practice of reducing a round price by one
   dollar, AKA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_pricing is
   often associated with cheap marketing tricks, trying to make the
   price look less than it is and so on. In my opinion, admitting that a
   hundred is a hundred and charging $400 and $100 for GTA02 and the
   debug board would fit better into the OpenMoko spirit of openness and
   transparency. Especially when most of the other prices out there end
   with 95 or 99, a round price tag will send a message: We're honest
   with you and aren't messing with your mind like others do.
  
  

  nice thought
  /sign



  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Terminology (was: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port)

2008-04-19 Thread Kevin Dean
On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 2008/4/19, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  Feature phones only differ between talk time and standby time.
  For us, it's a bit more complicated, since we have more modes.
 
  Can we agree on the following:
 
  usage time = CPU is powered on, lots of peripherals have power and you're
  actually talking and doing lots of things.
 
  standby time = CPU is powered on, but the display and most peripherals are
 off
  to save power. You are doing something that requires the CPU to be on
 though.
 
  suspend time = CPU is powered off. only gsm (and RTC and some other wakeup
  sources) are listening for events.

 Why can't we keep the existing terminology?

As you're going to state here, not everyone agrees on what the
existing terminology means. You can call it whatever you want as
long as everyone using the term understands what the terms mean.
Mickey's terms clear up the ambiguity.


 I think what you refer to as 'suspend time' should really be called 'standby
 time', since it is how most people think of it - how long will the battery
 last when the phone is not being used.

That makes assumptions that we can't be sure of yet. We should work to
clear up those assumptions first.


 What you call 'usage time' I think we could keep calling 'talk time', since
 it seems to me to be the same thing, and is in common use.

Broadcasting a GSM signal uses more power than playing Sudoko so the
times will be different. I don't think either term here really clears
that up.

How much talk time does the Freerunner currently get? This means while
broadcasting GSM signal. How much usage time can the Freerunner get,
for instance playing sudoku? What is the frame in between? Could
someone expect 10 hours of sit on my desk while I sleep and have the
phone do nothing? Does this drop to 6 hours when playing music via a
bluetooth headset (since it's processing audio and broadcasting over
BT). What battery life could someone expect while making a call from
full charge to battery death while using a Bluetooth headset?

Perhaps a battery life FAQ might make more sense... I'll see if I
can't start one.


 What you call 'standby time' doesn't seem like a very important state to me,
 I would think that for most people the phone would either be used (what you
 call 'usage time'), or in your pocket or whatever, when you want maximum
 battery time, what you call 'suspend time'.

There's a critical difference, but exactly how requires more
information. The GTA01 currently can't accept incoming calls while in
suspend, so for the average person suspend is useless since
suspending does NOTHING except essentially decrease boot time - it has
the same functionality as turning the device off and uses more power.

Can the Freerunner resume on incoming call? If so, someone could
suspend the device and toss it in their pocket/purse, reap maximum
battery life AND keep the primary functionality intact. If it can't
resume on incoming call, I'd agree it's essentially useless.

 Maybe we could call it 'music
 playback time', since that seems to be one usage of this mode.

 /Erland


 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: which applications are usable

2008-04-18 Thread Kevin Dean
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1

  To this i have a little question. I didn't find the ESC-key (which is
 essentially in vi(m)) and i also didn't find the CTRL-key. Whithout this a
 simple tail can make you to kill the hole window.

The current keyboard in the Openmoko images is not the keyboard that
will be shipped. The full QWERTY keyboard had a bug that broke
important functions, so the multi-tap input was dropped in as a
replacement. Because this doesn't have a (-) or a CTRL or a / key,
it's essentially useless for terminal.

Raster is working on a replacement keyboard. When it ends up in the
images is unknown.


  Greetings Bastian

  Flemming Richter Mikkelsen schrieb:


  | On 4/18/08, *Eildert Groeneveld* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL 
 PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  |
  | On Friday 18 April 2008, Tim Shannon wrote:
  |  I love that the terminal is one of the requisite applications.
 This is
  |  definitely a phone I'm looking forward to.
  |
  | Indeed, just imagine running vi on a phone!! The ultimate!
  | Eildert
  |
  |  | At least if you use an external keyboard!
  | And use vim (vi improved) instead of vi so you get the added
 functionality (e.g. code completion is nice when you don't have an external
 keyboard) and syntax highlighing (since it can be difficoult to detect
 typo's) :)
  | --
  | Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
  |
  | Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
  | URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774
  |
  | -

  |
  | ___
  | Openmoko community mailing list
  | community@lists.openmoko.org
  | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

  -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
  Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

  iD8DBQFICMSFlYiDScJJ+7QRAoY7AKDEAyoBpY1ZPrSFx9o/zc/q3Z3bqQCglfJj
  otnJQ3ntO/AkmbRnBcxg0/Y=
  =E696
  -END PGP SIGNATURE-




  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework

2008-04-18 Thread Kevin Dean
I have to say, I'm baffled by that sentiment. GTA02v5 is fully
functional, the only problem is that it's not as efficient as it
could be, just like every other product on the planet.

For those saying wait another month I've got a different arguement -
let's NOT hire people to make the changes, purchase the equipment
needed to do it. If a missing transistor is really upsetting someone
that much, the open nature of Openmoko works in your favor because you
can wait until the units you consider defective are sold out. I, for
one, don't want to pay the costs (and I will, if Openmoko decides to
wait and add the transistor for goodwill) that will be incurred and
spread over the rest of the product line. I'm QUITE happy to take a v5
and go along on my merry way.

It is quite possible to make your statement by NOT purchasing a v5
unit and waiting for a v6. Choosing to wait yourself, without passing
the delay and costs onto everyone else is the most ethical, polite way
to solve the problem.

-Kevin

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I totally agree with you.

 I understand everybody is happy to see the neo coming, but don't forget the
 goal :) : to provides the best free phones.

 It wouldn't be pleasant for us to by a phone, knowing there is a known issue
 with optimisation of  power consumption and LED stuff..

 I understand the rush ;) but we can wait...



 On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 
 
  OpenMoko team:
 
  It's crazy to consider shipping the GTA02v5 without the rework
  to solve the current leakage issue.
 
  Yes, people are REALLY anxious to get this phone. But shipping
  a few thousand of units that do not meet spec on standby time
  is a Bad Idea.
 
  pull up your socks and do the rework
  if that delays launch by 30 days so be it.
  besides the firmware will be better by then as well. ;)
 
  -ron jeffries.
 
  CONTEXT:
  -- Forwarded message --
  From: Shawn Rutledge [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 community@lists.openmoko.org
  Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:30:59 -0700
  Subject: Re: Freerunner will be GTA02v5 or GTA02v6? (was: Fwd: Future
 Button and LED software spec)
  On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   It sounds to me as the problem is easy for those of us that knows a
 little
   electronics. If I get one that leaks current, I will start soldering!
  
  
   Does anybody know if the fix Werner is talking about, will be done for
 all
   GTA02v5 PCB's? If it really will be a fix for it, it will not be any
 problem
   at all.
 
  Yes maybe it can be fixed.  But is the fix documented yet?
 
  Another way to look at it: if the fix can be done without a PCB
  change, then why not get the factory to do the rework (swapping
  transistors or whatever) before they are shipped?  How much would it
  cost to get that done in China?
 
  --
  Ron K. Jeffries
  http://blog.eronj.com
  http://twitter.com/RonKJeffries
 
 
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 
 



 --
 Steven Le Roux
 Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Our new Main page of wiki

2008-04-17 Thread Kevin Dean
The table colors have too little contrast, I think.  It's readable,
but I have to force myself to do so.

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Just a vote: I like the old one more.

  Am 17.04.2008 um 12:58 schrieb Ivo Anjo:



  Hi.
 
  Personally, I liked the old one better, and the colors on this one (mainly
 the background color of the tables) are pretty agressive.
 
  Ivo
 
  On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Brenda Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  Hi, all:
  Here is the  new  main page of our  wiki.
  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Test_main_page
  It will switch to Main page soon.
  Please feel free to give us your feedback .
 
  Regards
 
  Brenda
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 


  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: which applications are usable

2008-04-17 Thread Kevin Dean
I do reviews using the GTA01 and will begin doing reviews on the GTA02
as soon as I have it.

Currently, I use the Neo1973 (GTA01) as my primary phone. Call quality
is decent. There are some stability issues that come and go as the
code is tweaked and such. Just about everything in a default image
that works on the GTA01 works on Freerunner, from what I hear.

Sending and receiving SMS messages works fine. Incoming calls work
fine. Outgoing calls work fine. You can save contacts to your address
book and recall them. You can play some basic games. You can set
reminders in the calendar, use the calculator. Listen to music (mp3
and Vorbis are the only I've tested, but probably others too).

Again, I've not gotten my hands on a Freerunner yet, so assuming
there's not some massive bug and an internal conspiracy to conceal it,
that should be about the same on Freerunner. :)

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:41 AM, Eildert Groeneveld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello List

  with the Freerunner approaching I wonder which applications are currently
  in a usable status? Apparently, Steve's managed to make a phone call.
  What about SMS or addressbook? Is there a list somewhere? or does the current
  qemu download give an impression (its so slow its not really useful)

  greetings

  Eildert

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: which applications are usable

2008-04-17 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Marcus can you please inform me of how long the battery lasts on your neo
 1973? on average ...

Not Marcus but I have an answer. :) Using the Dim first, don't lock
mode which dims the screen after a few seconds and then turns off the
backlight, it's about 5 hours on standby. Less than that if you're
actually using the device.





 On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 
  On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 16:41 +0200, Eildert Groeneveld wrote:
 
   with the Freerunner approaching I wonder which applications are
 currently
   in a usable status? Apparently, Steve's managed to make a phone call.
   What about SMS or addressbook? Is there a list somewhere? or does the
 current
   qemu download give an impression (its so slow its not really useful)
 
  Adding to what Kevin said I can say that GPS work very well too. I hae
  been playing a bit with the software stack and being a great fan of
  openstreetmap I developed a little mapping software using these maps.
 
  If you want to check it out, there are packages for your desktop too,
  i.e. for Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, Fedora and eeePC.
 
  The homepage is http://www.tangogps.org/
 
  And I fully agree with Kevin that the Openmoko team has done a good job
  in bringing a usable set of apps to us: I use my neo 1973 without major
  probs on a daily basis. Actually I love the web browser links in
  graphical mode. Beats everything out there ;-)
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
 
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 


 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: which applications are usable

2008-04-17 Thread Kevin Dean
On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:56 PM, Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanx kevin, that's no good, when does it start warning about low battery?,
 or does it even do that?

It doesn't. This is perhaps my single BIGGEST complaint. I don't
really mind that the battery dies in 5 hours, because I can plug it up
within that window. What bothers the hell out of me is that the phone
runs itself into the ground to the point where it can't even be turned
on without an hour of slow charging. :( I understand this is a
firmware issue and that at least this last part has been corrected in
the Freerunner.




 On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Flyin_bbb8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Marcus can you please inform me of how long the battery lasts on your
 neo
   1973? on average ...
 
  Not Marcus but I have an answer. :) Using the Dim first, don't lock
  mode which dims the screen after a few seconds and then turns off the
  backlight, it's about 5 hours on standby. Less than that if you're
  actually using the device.
 
 
 
 
 
  
  
  
   On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   wrote:
  
   
On Thu, 2008-04-17 at 16:41 +0200, Eildert Groeneveld wrote:
   
 with the Freerunner approaching I wonder which applications are
   currently
 in a usable status? Apparently, Steve's managed to make a phone
 call.
 What about SMS or addressbook? Is there a list somewhere? or does
 the
   current
 qemu download give an impression (its so slow its not really useful)
   
Adding to what Kevin said I can say that GPS work very well too. I hae
been playing a bit with the software stack and being a great fan of
openstreetmap I developed a little mapping software using these maps.
   
If you want to check it out, there are packages for your desktop too,
i.e. for Ubuntu, Debian, Suse, Fedora and eeePC.
   
The homepage is http://www.tangogps.org/
   
And I fully agree with Kevin that the Openmoko team has done a good
 job
in bringing a usable set of apps to us: I use my neo 1973 without
 major
probs on a daily basis. Actually I love the web browser links in
graphical mode. Beats everything out there ;-)
   
Marcus
   
   
   
   
   
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
   
  
  
   ___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  
  
 
  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 


 ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community



___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: 3G? What about CDMA?

2008-04-16 Thread Kevin Dean
GSM is essentially an international standard. With some exceptions,
CDMA isn't used much.

Furthermore, even in the USA, Verizon will be deploying a GSM network
soon (next few years). So a Freerunner WILL work on Verizon in the
near future.

Don't count on a CDMA device, using a relatively closed network
doesn't meet the aims of the Openmoko project.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Steven **
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I talk with friends and co-workers about OpenMoko and the Neo
  Freerunner all the time.  Inevitably, they say something like That's
  cool.  Will it work with Verizon? or That's cool.  Will it work with
  Sprint?.  And of course, the answer is no...  I don't think any of my
  friends are with att (even though they're supposedly the largest
  wireless carrier in the US) or any other GSM provider.  They're all on
  Sprint or Verizon.  I myself was originally on Verizon and switched to
  att solely for the Neo.  But most people aren't willing to do that
  (and most are locked into contracts with a $250+ early termination
  fee).

  So, have you considered making a CDMA version of the Neo?  I think
  that'd about double your sales in the US.

  -Steven

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: openmoko roadmap

2008-04-16 Thread Kevin Dean
Speaking realistically, it's impossible for Openmoko to reveal that
information and no have it hurt sales, for EXACTLY the reason you
mentioned. As a support (and Neo1973 owner) I debated with this
myself. Why pay for a phone today when I KNOW the newer model is
around the corner?

At the same time, Openmoko walked right into this since NOT revealing
this is going to levy charges of You're not being open like you said
you would.

Frankly, I want a phone powered by Free Software. If Openmoko needs to
conceal future product plans to ensure that, so be it.

In a little bit of a less objective based answer and a more reality
based answer:

Openmoko Inc. is a young company. So far they've not released their
debut product to the market they intend to. In a very real way, how
well Freerunner does will deterime what, if ANYTHING, happens to
future products that Openmoko kicks out. If they make 100x more units
than they sell, there won't BE a next time.

Simple, concise and efficient answer: If you want a GTA03, buy a
GTA02. Failure to do so is failure to ensure there will be a future
model.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:45 PM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Wednesday 16 April 2008 20:20:44 Peter Abplanalp wrote:
   with the release of the freerunner coming up, i'm wondering about the
   roadmap and future for openmoko and additional phones.  i'm an advanced
   linux user but have no experience with openmoko or the cell phone platform
   and thus i'm wondering if the the freerunner is the phone for me or not
   seeing as how what i've read on this list is that the freerunner is still
   an advanced user phone.  does anyone at openmoko know when we might
   expect the next phone after the freerunner?  if it is going to be more than
   a year or so, i think i want to get a freerunner but if the next phone
   would be a year or less away, i may wait.

  I don't think Om Inc. will take the risk of repeating the potential Osborne
  effect. Last time it already did enough damage.

  :M:

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: 3G? What about CDMA?

2008-04-16 Thread Kevin Dean
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Steven **
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I don't see how GSM is much less closed of a network protocol than
  CDMA (the interchangeable SIM cards being the big difference).

Stop thinking in terms of the technology itself and think in terms of
a userbase. In the majority of the world, a CDMA phone would be a
restriction on the number of carriers you can use and where. In the
US, it's Sprint and Verizon (and even that is only true short term).
There are some Japanese carriers that are also CDMA. Everywhere else
uses GSM. GSM is in every European market, and there are a LOT of
potential customers in Europe.

Openmoko is about openness, not just about open source. Even the
model being used to sell the devices tries to break away from the Go
to your carrier's store and buy the device to use on their network
paradigm. Buy your phone, powered by Free Software, and pick any of
the carriers who use the most common cellular technology on the
planet.


  The
  GSM chip is the most locked down hardware on the Neo.  A CDMA chip
  would be no different.

Even if that doesn't work for you, it's a dumb investment to NOT aim
for the largest market possible. By making a CDMA-based phone,
Openmoko only captures a small percentage of the total number of
worldwide cellular users. As a fledgling brand it isn't feasible to
make BOTH a CDMA and a GSM based product in a debut offering - the
expense is too high with the unknown to big a variable.


  As far as the aims of the Openmoko project, I don't see how CDMA
  conflicts with that.  I thought one of the aims of Openmoko was to
  show people the benefits of opensource, mobile computing.  It seems
  odd to give people choices over everything but the service provider.

Lack of choice is the #1 complaint Verizon got from their customers.
Verizon Exclusive phones that they couldn't use off the Verizon
network. Phones they owned from their other carrier that couldn't be
used on Verizon.

Because of this market pressure, Verizon is switching their networks
to GSM so that they can seamlessly compete with GSM providers (which
is the majority of the market). It's in the interest of Verizon AND
the customers to standardize on a single set of technology and GSM is
that standard. It is possible that by the time Verizon's GSM network
is up (2009, from what I heard) the Freerunner will be mass market.
In that case, the only network that it won't work on is Sprint's. You
can debate over who is exactly at fault in that situation; all the
handset makers worldwide or Sprint.


  -Steven



  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:14 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   GSM is essentially an international standard. With some exceptions,
CDMA isn't used much.
  
Furthermore, even in the USA, Verizon will be deploying a GSM network
soon (next few years). So a Freerunner WILL work on Verizon in the
near future.
  
Don't count on a CDMA device, using a relatively closed network
doesn't meet the aims of the Openmoko project.
  
  
  
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Steven **
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I talk with friends and co-workers about OpenMoko and the Neo
  Freerunner all the time.  Inevitably, they say something like That's
  cool.  Will it work with Verizon? or That's cool.  Will it work with
  Sprint?.  And of course, the answer is no...  I don't think any of my
  friends are with att (even though they're supposedly the largest
  wireless carrier in the US) or any other GSM provider.  They're all on
  Sprint or Verizon.  I myself was originally on Verizon and switched to
  att solely for the Neo.  But most people aren't willing to do that
  (and most are locked into contracts with a $250+ early termination
  fee).

  So, have you considered making a CDMA version of the Neo?  I think
  that'd about double your sales in the US.

  -Steven

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

  
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
  

  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: Trading in €uros ?

2008-04-15 Thread Kevin Dean
The figure in USD is as innacurate as anything else. You're not
actually paying $399 USD, you're paying the number of New Taiwan
Dollars that can be exchanged for $399 USD.

Rebasing the price in ANY currency means absolutely nothing since
(assuming you aren't paying exchange premiums) it's the same price. Of
course, they could say 399 Euros, in which case it would be getting
more expensive for EVERYONE.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Didier Raboud [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Didier Raboud wrote:

   Hi,
  
   Just wondering. With the actual fall of the U$D, why not setting the Neo's
   prices in €uros ? (Which is actually pretty strong.) (or ¥ens, ...)
  
   This would imply a rising price (with time) for American customers instead
   of a falling one for European ones.
  
   Actually, the actual situation is good for me if the U$D continues to go
   down : my future Neo will cost less to me. :)
  
   Regards,
  
   OdyX, aka Didier Raboud

  Just to precise my thoughts...

  The idea is not to have a rise of the price for American customers, but to
  protect the value of the future Neo against a fall of the U$D. If the U$D
  continues to fall, the real income back to FIC will fall with time. FIC
  will then have to augment its prices which is not desirable...

  Well... I'm not that much in Finance, so don't give my thoughts too much
  value.

  Regards, Didier




  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community

___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


Re: DHL has a package for me!

2008-04-15 Thread Kevin Dean
Ihre Ausweis!

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:57 AM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My samples arrived!

  I'm in customs hell. They want me to prove I am an american. So I have to
  send them a copy of
  My social security card or my taxes.



  ___
  Openmoko community mailing list
  community@lists.openmoko.org
  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


  1   2   >