Re: [OT] combined forum and mailinglist (Re: Why not use forum?)
We also came upon this idea a year ago. There are a few problems with it. Mail gets sent once. The advantage of a forum is that you can edit, merge, move and delete things. Ortwin On 6/13/08, Arnout Engelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 02:48:27PM -0400, Kevin Dean wrote: Some people REALLY like mailing lists and some people REALLY like fora and never the twain shall meet. :P Personally, I don't believe this: to me, it sounds entirely feasible to create a 'discussion thread respository' which can be accessed with a web forum interface, a mailinglist interface or an NNTP client. I fail to see the fundamental difference. (of course, there's already gatewaying software like GMANE, some forums already have quite extensive mail features and some mailinglist softwares have added some interactivity to their 'archive'. I don't feel I've seen it 'done right' yet, though, with a central 'message repository' and several interfaces which are all 'first class citizens'. As a hobby project, I started implementing this. I'm currently thinking of a Java web app with a Hibernate database (postgres/mysql), and Subethamail serves as an inspiration. This is *way* pre-alpha, but if anyone would like to cooperate, drop me a note :). Arnout ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dual SIM?
No, because you don't have access to everything in a sim card and thus can't copy it. Ortwin On 6/12/08, Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: would it, in theory, be possible to emulate a 2nd sim-card which was inserted and saved on the flash memory before and switch between it and the inserted one? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not use forum?
http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php Haven't been there in a while, though. It seems like those weird hardcore Linux people simply prefer mailing lists... _ Ortwin On 6/12/08, Leonti Bielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. The main Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum? Can anyone explain to me why we can't install ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not use forum?
Pah, mailing lists are for old people. :P On 6/12/08, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leonti Bielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? Because web forums are a pain. I'm over 250 mailing lists. Imaging the unbearable pain of having to go to all those web forums. Web forums are also extremely bad for a structured discussion. Web forums is a kids thing, basically;). -- Esben Stien is [EMAIL PROTECTED] s a http://www. s tn m irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact sip:b0ef@ e e jid:b0ef@n n ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)
Who are these weird people that think window transparency on an underpowered phone is a good idea?! What functionality does THAT give us? I'd like to see some justification, if not from you then from whoever is responsible for these ideas. I've lived without window transparancy on all my PCs and handhelds up to now. I've seen it on my brother's Vista PC and it was kind of funny for all of five minutes. Ortwin On 6/11/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:07:40 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Am Di 10. Juni 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler: On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:16:06 +0800 Wilkinson, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: 0n Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 01:43:08PM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote: we are in a world where to get gfx support to run such high resolutions means we need to have closed drivers. and that is not Curious, why is that ? graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to do in terms of processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and trust me - everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it already) the No, I won't trust you here! I give a SH*T on soft shadows, even on my desktop. I switch off animation because I think it's annoying waste of time to see the same movie over and over. Alpha blending? Eeew! Useless. the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha transparency is the day i make this unimportant. until that day, your i don't care about this is the kind of opinion that i also am not interested in, because i am being shown ui designs hat REQUIRE it in the long run between windows, and in the short term is being faked with software within windows. i am just trying to make something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long time. not just say i don't care. Every single argument been mentioned multiple times here. Redundance. GTA03 has VGA - period! things can change - unlikely to be, but can. i have said it many times already. 04 even better i'd bet on it. 05 virtually no-one even thinking of now, not to mention sourceability of parts when it's coming to real. And now I'm definitely stopping to feed this tro.. er, thread, which btw seems nobody is looking on the weird subject any more :-/ ETX jOERG -- Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different! Please keep that in mind. Ortwin On 6/11/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: Just compare equal things. We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal. Hear me out: By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner, and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over two years no matter which phone they buy. Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following: the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost only $199 USD and now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms of price. He was asking about straight out-of-pocket expense, not about subsidies. The end consumer is only going to see the price tag on the phone itself. The consumer will look at the iPhone and see a price of $199. Then they'll look at the Freerunner and see a price tag of $399. If they choose the $199 iPhone, they get locked into a two year contract, likely paying $100 per month for a voice/data plan. Over 24 months, their total cost is going to be about $2600. If they choose the $399 Freerunner, they aren't locked into a minimum 2 year contract, but they'll still need monthly service for the same 24-month period. As I mentioned in a previous message, a plain voice/data plan with ATT is still going to cost $90 or more depending on the plan you pick. After 24 months, they've still paid $2600. That looks pretty 'equal' to me, and *I* believe the average consumer will feel the same way. If you don't agree with that, then you and I simply don't agree on it, but that still doesn't warrant calling someone's communication nonsense simply because you don't agree with them. The Freerunner would perhaps be cheaper if the consumer buys pay as you go minutes/data instead of a monthly plan. The Freerunner would *definitely* be cheaper if they buy the iPhone and start buying applications through iTunes for their phone. If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package and THEN we can talk. But the consumer isn't asked to pay the full unlocked price of the iPhone. Just because ATT subsidizes the phone by lessening the profit they make on the $100/month you'll pay them for using their service, the consumer isn't paying more for the phone since they'd still have to pay for the same voice/data service to use a Freerunner. It just means ATT makes more profit on the voice/data plan because they haven't subsidized anything. And you still haven't followed up with how you calculated the iPhone to cost 'twice' as much as the Freerunner. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Landscape keyboard
Interesting idea. There are some problems I see with it: -The screen is very small so typing with two thumbs and trying to see what you type gets difficult. -When you type with two fingers, you happen to touch the screen with both at once sometimes and with our resistive touchscreen that registers a touch somewhere between the two touchpoints. Probably not that much of a problem, though, because you get used to avoiding this. I think it's something that should be tried, especially for a number pad. For a full sized keyboard, the buttons get too small for thumbs. I think the solution for full text input is one-finger-sliding. (Quickwriting) Ortwin On 6/9/08, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...The keyboard itself has very minimal needs in terms of resolution, but it steals about a third of the screen in portrait mode, more in landscape -- 640x480 is probably a bare minimum. Chris's comment about the keyboard in landscape mode popped an image into my head. Maybe it's been mentioned already, but I don't recall. The keyboard for landscape mode could be split in two and have half on the right, and half on the left. I think that may make it more suitable for thumb typing and take less area away. Someone will probably ask me to mock it up, but I'm a HW guy, so you really don't want me to try :) --Steve M ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
What the hell?! Seems like a lot of people STILL don't get it: The iPhone does NOT cost 199$. It's a marketing lie. The actual price is 199$ + a two year contract. That makes it probably closer to 1000$. The Neo is still very very cheap compared to that, especially considering how few Neo phones are being made at the moment. Ortwin On 6/10/08, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to buy an openmoko is the freedom. But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost only $199 USD and it automatically makes the OpenMoko phone expensive, because they have similar characteristics... this could discourage many possible buyers, for purely economical reasons. I dont know if the FreeRunner price can be changed at this moment, but now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms of price. Best wishes _ Stop squinting -- view your photos on your TV. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/default.mspx?deepLink=photos ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me the price advantage over an iPhone is very real. Ortwin On 6/10/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Taylor wrote: You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year contract minimum. Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost, because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400 ($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with ATT also helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware. And while I personally don't care much for the iPhone, you also have to sign up for a voice/data plan to use the Freerunner... You're still paying the $960-$2400 over two years, but there's not offset of cost of the hardware to the consumer. The monthly fees you pay that doesn't pay for the actual use of the cell network is 100% profit to ATT instead of going to Apple to help pay for the hardware. Same with TMobile, and I imagine any other carrier who offsets the price of their phones to lock you into a contract. Just my $0.02. What you're paying the extra money for, for the Freerunner, is the freedom of doing whatever you want with your phone. Sure, the iPhone has their SDK released, but all applications still have to go through Apple to operate on your phone -- I don't know if the SDK even allows you to build an application just for your own iPhone to test it. Also, their mobile OS is closed source -- you have no access to hack or tweak it to do *exactly* what you want it to. You can't change the applications that come with the phone, you can't do a lot of things. Sure, they have lots of eye candy and some solid-looking applications, but once we as a community port applications to the Freerunner hardware to run on OpenMoko, we'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone software. That, to me, is worth the extra purchase price. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!
For the record: I was talking about the gaming controls of my Tapwave Zodiac. I realize that this was probably not all that clear from the context and apologize. I think branching into multiple devices starts making sense with the switch to a new SoC. As it is, it looks like GTA03 is supposed to be the Neo camera edition. I can't think of too much other popular uses that should be realized with the current configuration. Maybe a keypad would be popular (though I personally hate it) but that would either require relatively complex mechanics (and maybe patent issues) or it would be awful... Ortwin On 6/10/08, Roland Häder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the market asks for this: - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is mentioning as subject for removal. - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the gameing controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the software shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires the gaming controls. Any further ideas? :) Roland On Tuesday, 10. June 2008, Ortwin Regel wrote: There has been all this fruitless talk about resolution. Well, what is really limiting the Neo's screen right now is not resolution (obviously), not speed (at least not on the GTA01, no idea how messed up the 02 situation is. I'd guess it's faster most of the time.) but size! If the GTA03 get's a new case design, please consider making the screen twice as big! Then we are finally at a size were two-thumb-typing starts to make sense and even people with bad eye sight can benefit from the high resolution (although I'm not convinced that second point is a positive one... _). The device wouldn't even have to be bigger for this because so much space was wasted in the original Neo design. The only handheld I have owned where the screen could be called big enough was the Tapwave Zodiac (RIP). If you shave off the gaming controls and make it a little thicker, you get a very decent phone. Also, I suggest concentrating more on the horizontal usage. For example, bring the stereo speakers back but add one below and one above the display so that they are left and right in landscape. You can get a pretty good stereo effect at that distance. Ortwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- (GNU) PGP ID: 0x4D385570 Weblog: http://blog.mxchange.org ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 - product management, features assumptions
Well said. Ortwin On 6/10/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9 Jun 2008, at 01:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ... i am asked by product management to do things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast). ... in the end if product management want X they get X. and if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i need a very very very strong argument against going to qvga - and that means product management need to drop a feature. On 10 Jun 2008, at 11:55, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ... graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to do in terms of processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and trust me - everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it already) the sheer memory bandwidth and cycles needed to do that stuff at a smooth framerate is astounding. sure - if your life is plain with still images/ content and everything is plain solid rectangles, you don't. but i am being shown designs wanted that REQUIRE compositing - REQUIRE alpha blending and all that snazz. this is coming to me and i need a way to accommodate it in the long run ... cpu alone can't do it all - unless you really cut down the workload. that means too bad - no alpha ... On 6 Jun 2008, at 08:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: ... if we want to play the my specs are better than your specs game right now, we will lose. ... if all you measure a device on is dpi and pixel count, you are being silly. how it looks matters even more. dpi helps there, but so does compositing, translucency, smooth animation etc. in fact these probably have a much greater buy me effect. by far more. i'll put money on that bet actually (this is just speaking from having done eyecandy for over a decade - on linux, and having seen what it can do to attract people). to make things like compositing fast, smooth and nice, you must lower resolution to do it, or increase graphics power grunt. so given that graphicws grunt is not changing, cpu is not, the only 2 things that can change are screen resolution or the eyecandy has to remain toned down. so does vga buy you more sales for the average joe than a sexy bit of eyecandy at qvga? i'm leaning to qvga + eyecandy myself. Reading these posts of the last few days it has just occurred to me that it's not Carsten we should be beating up on here. Who the heck asked for translucency and flashy animations? Management seem to be asking for this alpha bleeding rubbish, and it seems to me that we users need to be telling management that we don't care a heck for it. Sure, I know the iPhone does this now, but that doesn't mean Openmoko has to do it. Do we really want Openmoko to be just another iPhone clone? I know we see a fair number of posts on here about the iPhone, but surely that's just a result of the current buzz - is UI animation really a *necessity* in the long-term (or medium-term) future of the mobile phone market? DISCLAIMER: I haven't used an iPhone, and I'm not terribly interested in it. I do use a Mac as my main desktop, but that's not for the animation, it's because I want something that just works when I sit down at my computer. All us Mac fans found Expose to be a *massive* UI improvement when it was released, but that's because virtual desktops have always been rubbish on a Mac - with so many windows on a single desktop *some* way of finding the bottom-most one was required. The other day I was talking to a Linux developer who turned off compiz on his desktop because it slowed down his productivity - you simply don't need Expose if you have virtual desktops (which admittedly are not suitable for my granny). It seems to me that, whilst the iPhone's animation may wow people, what really distinguishes the iPhone is the same attention to UI simplicity that Apple have always brought to their products. It does a FEW things amazingly well, and that's where it separates itself from the majority of phones on the market, none of which *quite* suit the mass-market of users. Most users don't want to understand the filesystem on their mobile phone, so Apple do away with it; Apple have made it spectacularly easy (so much so that one must include in the discussion the word intuitive) to email a photo taken on the camera or grabbed from a webpage, but they make it impossible to email attachments under many other circumstances. The majority of users don't want to copy paste text on their mobile phones, so Apple just got rid of it - other manufacturers muddy up the phones they aim at girls and little old ladies (excuse me) by including the ability to copy paste; Apple have realised that only a minority of business-phone users want or need that. The Neo Freerunner have both been smartphones, and that's surely the interest that draws Linux users to this list. We want to be able to shell into our unix servers,
Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!
I wonder: Might it be useful/possible to add a connector for Bug modules to a future Openmoko phone? On 6/10/08, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Roland Häder wrote: My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the market asks for this: - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is mentioning as subject for removal. - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the gameing controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the software shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires the gaming controls. Any further ideas? :) Roland Yes. I propose a modular approach. 1 phone many external similar to this idea: http://www.icontrolpad.com/ Additionally, there is a certain cool factor to having a single unit but many docking stations if done right, for example: Quick preview: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3871478989.html Their overbearing website: http://www.buglabs.net/products Buglabs is doing something really cool, but you gotta code in java and it doesn't fit into a pocket (well it does fit in a really big pocket). It's pretty clear Mokos core group of users are very demanding, and something like that would allow for everyone to be happy. However, why I really think this could be a really great approach for the moko is the 'Hey Cool!' factor. Can you picture the conversation when you meet up with a buddy hey whats that on your moko? oh it's my new gamepod. COL! can i try it on my moko? sure ... *CLICK* ... here you go. COOL! It also reduces the dev costs for moko, it allows it to remain a smartphone and not move from that niche, reduces the number of formats that people will be demanding the moko be made in and will start to establish a hardware addon ecosystem beyond what is already being developed. What the moko manufacturers then can pull is a NIKE. Instead of relying purely on sales of the moko, they can turn them selves into an RD and marketing company and not only produce their own hardware if they want to, but also licence officially supported modules and addons to control quality and get a cut of each sale. Also when usb3 comes along you can offload all sorts of stuff to that, such as gfx co-porcessing if you want so all of a sudden you can get ati into the picture with their completely documented processors and really start something interesting. Just some brianstorming ... Rob ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?
Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be a realistic possibility! Ortwin On 6/8/08, Breakable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would propose to take a look at this before any case design: http://www.icontrolpad.com/ Basically its a dock for IPhone. So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics. This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some system, that has additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc ;) Regards, Breakable ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?
lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect the buttons to the phone. On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote: Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be a realistic possibility! Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available, he wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could potentially make it a *proper* case :) -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://www.leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo
The number I heard was a first run of 3000... ;) (and 100 prototype devices before that) Ortwin On 6/8/08, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote: 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they start dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case and going but we only want 1 bottle! (sorry - buy the case, or go somewhere else). :) So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?
Well, with Bluetooth it would have to have it's own power source (or be connected to one) so USB sounds most reasonable. It might even contain an USB hub and expose a number of full size USB ports, maybe including Y-cable functionality for charging while being host. Ortwin On 6/8/08, Ulrik Rasmusen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Through the USB interface maybe? Or maybe via bluetooth, then there would be no need to worry about a dangling usb cable. On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 07:31:13PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote: lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect the buttons to the phone. On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote: Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be a realistic possibility! Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available, he wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could potentially make it a *proper* case :) -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://www.leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: resolution preferences??
On 6/6/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: convince me vga is incredibly more useful than qvga. convince me you all have amazing eyesight! :) i am doing this because i am trying to listen to the community and if given a choice - choose the right way based on what you guys think, but PLEASE, be practical, and honest. be honest with yourselves. this is not a my screen is higher dpi than your screen competition. it's about making a nice and usable device you want. if you ask for vga, but you really can't see the difference between qvga and vga, you're not being honest. you're just playing the spec numbers game. I have good eye sight and I believe many other people do, too. You don't need very good eye sight to see the difference but I guess you need it to fully make use of the high resolution. What do we not need VGA for? -Videos. The phone won't do VGA videos anyway and resolution isn't that important when watching videos. (See the popularity of YouTube...) -Finger applications. Displaying huge buttons in high resolution is beautiful but not useful. What do we need VGA for? -Ebook reading. I read Cory Doctorow's Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town in very tiny font on my Neo. It was a great experience. But even fonts that are a little bigger still profit a lot from the high resolution. -Web browsing. There are a lot of tricks to display web pages at low resolutions. I haven't seen anything that works well, though. VGA is the smallest resolution to do web browsing well. -Other things that use text (word processor, speadsheet, calendar, ...) and stylus applications in general. -Games. Not necessarily 3D games but things like OTTD. RTS on a handheld becomes usable at 480*320 and fun at 640*480. Since we don't have buttons, those are the games that are possible on current Neos. -Maps. The tiny map portions you can fit into 320*240 aren't really useful... -Comics. Again, 640*480 is the smalles resolution most comic pages become readable at. -Pictures. They can be displayed at QVGA but only at VGA they look perfect, because it's hard to see the individual pixels. Not being able to see the individual pixels is pretty much the point of the high resolution! -The text console. The terminal app is bad enough with the huge font it is set to at the moment. Way back it had a very tiny font that worked great. Can you imagine it at 320*240? I can't. What future OpenMoko devices need is a bigger screen area. Making the problem worse by decreasing the resolution to a quarter is not a good idea. 480*320 is the lowest resolution I could live with but I'd much rather have 800*480. When I get my Pandora, that's what I'll get used to. Ortwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo
On 6/5/08, Ken Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost) since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if the speed of qvga is worth the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure. Please, please, please, please, please don't drop to a QVGA LCD on future OM phones. The beautiful full VGA screens on the neo and Freerunner are just about the only piece of hardware they have which is better than what you find on a typical smart phone. Ken Young ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I couldn't stand going back on resolution after having seen this screen. 640*480 is beautiful. Decreasing the resolution to increase speed is not worth it. Ortwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: on screen keyboard enhaced
Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it. I guess it needs to be prototyped. Ortwin On 5/29/08, George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200 christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko? I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner port it to OpenMoko. How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks like a good idea. solar.george ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: on screen keyboard enhaced
On the actual screen that keyboard is very small. Even if you use a
stylus, you need to keep a steady hand. I don't think sliding over
fields that small would be comfortable or fast. It would be unusable
on a bus/train.
Ortwin
On 5/30/08, christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ortwin Regel wrote:
Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it.
I guess it needs to be prototyped.
Ortwin
http://sudharsh.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/screenshot-1.png
Here is a screenshot of one of onscreen keyboard. And I don't think its
so small.
And it could be bigger if special characters (,$,€, {,} etc.) were
hiden. Maybe a gesture that startes at part of the screen gets you to
special characters.
I will try this in this weekend. Just mockup app. And than actual porting.
On 5/29/08, George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200
christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which
enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg
What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko?
I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try
to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner
port it to OpenMoko.
How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks
like a good idea.
solar.george
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Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners
As far as I can tell everything in the article was already mentioned on the list. Nothing new to comment on... Ortwin On 5/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: steve wrote: Yes mass pro will start soon. There is another batch of a few hundred or so phones being built tomorrow. I'll Know more after tomorrows build. Thanks for the news Steve! I'm waiting for a better ones tomorrow... :P In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not so good news about production :/ Can you share with us something more Steve? Bye [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2 [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64 -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Barometric altimeter on 'future' Freerunner ?
I can see exotic applications for this but certainly not enough to put it into the phone. If you need it, add it via USB host, that's what we've got it for. (Same is true for the railgun. ;) ) Ortwin On 5/18/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17 May 2008, at 22:17, Philippe Guillebert wrote: Matthias Schulze wrote: I am wondering about applications possible with the Freerunner (connected via usb) or later phone models, if a barometric altimeter would be included. Hi, Err, doesn't GPS give us a pretty accurate altitude already ? lol. No. Event if the precision is something like +/- 20 meters, I believe it's got a better accuracy than a barometric altimeter that you've got to calibrate to the meteorological conditions all the time. GPS altitude precision is more like +/- 200 metres. Even cheap electronic altimeters are accurate to a few feet. That they need daily calibration makes them only of use to people who actually _need_ to know their height - an altimeter built into a digital watch, for instance, is usually no more than a gimmick, but a hang- glider pilot can simply hold down the zero button on his £100 altimeter for 3 seconds and then knows his height accurately for the duration of the day's flying. Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Accellerometer spin
The problem is the same as with linear acceleration: You get an increasing deviation over time. Ortwin On 5/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Instead of adding a compass to the device to be able to read spin about the gravitational axis, would it not be easier to offset one of the accellerometers from the centre of the device? That way, the roll is uneffected and the yaw and pitch can be calculated by accounting for the known offset in the equ. Just a thought Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless handheld ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API
Afaik yes On 5/14/08, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ron, Is the Dash in the blog the same as the Dash Express on the dash.net site? Vinc On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API It's sorta funny, but nobody here says a word about Dash, the Freerunner's red-haired step-sister device, OEM'd from FIC as I understand things. Latest Dash news: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/13/dash-opens-up-apis-for-its-gps-device-to-outside-developers/ -- Ron K. Jeffries Twitter @RonKJeffries mobile 805 567 4670 http://blog.eronj.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date
That was usually called HXD8 IIRC. I wonder about GTA03, too... Ortwin On 5/11/08, JW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or gta03 was the board for that gps (DASH) thing hence next phone is gta04 JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mobile gps gaming
We'd need a compass for a working 3D world window. Else the phone can't be certain (though it could estimate) where it is facing. I am very interested in GPS games. A PacMan-like game that automatically generates a level based on the surrounding Open Streetmap data would be awesome. :) A Snake game would also be great. Lots of possibilities probably. Ortwin On 4/30/08, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yea, I'm excited too. I was thinking it would be possible to use the accelerometer + GPS to make the phone act like a window into the game world. Where you can look around in 3d. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:53 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming Robin Paulson wrote: i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on mobile phones: There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones... teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press. I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone. -id ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC)
What makes you think the Wii accellerometers are inaccurate? They feel pretty precise as far as I can tell... Ortwin On 4/27/08, David Murrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wait a minute... /me backs up the metaphorical truck... Just _how_ accurate are these accelerometers? Are we talking the sorta half second delay with exagerated drunk movements required to operate the nintendo wii, or precise movements that can catch my cat doing the sideways wiggle in realtime before she jumps at something if I was to strap it to her? (Yes, I realise that attaching a phone to a cat is like trying to pin the tail on a live donkey, you get one chance, and then its all pain, but I digress) TTFN, David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter Mikkelsen Sent: Sunday, 27 April 2008 5:56 a.m. To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC) On 4/26/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice if we can choose between input. Sometimes it is nice to use the touchscreen as a mice, while other times I would prefer the accelerometers (e.g. if you want to use the display to something else at the same time). ... and if you use the accelerometers, you can actually move the device just like if it was a mice:) That would be very cool. Tilting is also an alternative and should be implemented before this regular mice behavor thing, since it is a lot more easy to code. -- Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Join the FSF as an Associate Member at: URL:http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774 Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?
The problem with small handheld devices is that most of the time it's cheaper to put everything into the device than to create variants. Modularity causes problems with design and space and is also expensive. I also still need a GSM modem and will for a few years. Sure, I'd like to use WLAN, Bluetooth and UMTS whenever possible but these networks don't cover the whole country / most of the planet. When there is no other network, I need GSM to get onto the internet, even if it's slow. Ortwin On 4/20/08, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (sorry for the length of this message) I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no longer existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore. So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the Internet, then do whatever you want from there. Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is in doing VoIP and IM. Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and just provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi, bluetooth). Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones). I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already USB UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a bluetooth-serial chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses). This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the ear (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing). You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on. Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you still have the main product (the handheld) selling well. Just my (long) 2 ¢ -- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
Yes, I'm pretty sure there will only be the pure black color scheme. On 4/21/08, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad. Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with grey, like the 1973 on this picture: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the shipped version going to be all black? Ivo On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind of monitor do you have? :O I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this! Thanks Michel Shiloh Cheers! Kosa - Un mundo mejor es posible - Richard Reichenbacher escribió: The pictures are too small. Can you make post up bigger ones? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions: http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/ If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to turn this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02 samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission - download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and create what you want. Michael ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port
That's also something I'd like to know as my Minty Boost supposedly does up to ~250 mA and I'd like to use that much if possible. The Neo 1973 doesn't have the necessary hardware to detect chargers, though, or does it? Ortwin On 4/19/08, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Great summary Michael, and a good discussion. It would be nice to see the ability to support other fast chargers in the future. That is one of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own specific charger which is incompatible with anything else. Michael Shiloh wrote: In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and 1A. Just to be absolutely clear, are these 3 rates hardwired into the circuitry? Or might it be possible in the future to support(through only software changes) some charger that has for example a max rating of 750mA, and get the maximum output from it. The discussion up to this point seems to indicate that the best that could be done with this theoretical charger would be 500mA. I suppose it doesn't make a huge difference, but something I'd like to know for sure. - Hans Loeblich ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes
Sounds like an awesome idea! :D Ortwin On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized the potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes. What this is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the Freerunner. From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect and measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1] If the Freerunner's accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed ground, we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload accelerometer data to a database. Many different devices running this could provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least fairly accurately), pinpoint an epicenter. This data could become useful to researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster than almost any news network would provide. Thoughts? [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes
Yes, AFAIK GPS requires accurate time to function. Ortwin On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat April 19 2008 5:29:50 pm Richard Guest wrote: Yeah, it's an interesting idea. I read something similar on Evil Mad Scientist http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/seismometry2 The detection/pinpointing part requires both accurate detection of shaking and timing - obviously the timing is critical for triangulation. I think the *cool* factor for something like this would be the ability to measure a persons actual physical experience of an earthquake. There are *lots* of existing seismometers that will do the *fixed* point detection a whole lot better, but none (that I know of) that will be (relatively) unobtrusive to the users daily life and still give an actual measurement of physical shaking intensity. You shouldn't have to wait that long for e/q info... In New Zealand the news media mostly regurgitate what we post on http://www.geonet.org.nz/ There's near-realtime shaking info on the front page, and if there's actually an earthquake people can submit a Felt Report to tell us how they experienced it. It would be really cool to see how a personal accelerometer trace correlates to the fuzzy-logic of the felt report! End thoughts... -- Rich On 20/04/2008, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized the potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes. What this is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the Freerunner. From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect and measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1] If the Freerunner's accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed ground, we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload accelerometer data to a database. Many different devices running this could provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least fairly accurately), pinpoint an epicenter. This data could become useful to researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster than almost any news network would provide. Thoughts? [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Wouldn't GPS provide an accurate time? I thought GPS sends its own official time, like an atomic clock. I could be wrong. Anyone know more about this? -- Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onedollarlinux.com BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/ Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?
Well, it would mean that the casing changes significantly. That means lots of work and cost so it's not a trivial change. I don't think it's worth doing this (or even reasonably possible in time) before the next hardware revision. Ortwin On 4/15/08, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Subject: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03? Date: Mon 14 Apr 08 08:55:41PM -0500 Quoting Jae Stutzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I vote for current GTA02 features plus 3G and USB2.0! I warmly suggest that FIC produce a GTA02.2 - same hardware, but with a QWERTY keyboard... Form-factor similar to nokia e61. This should not require such a long and difficult development process. Carlo -- * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte, * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe * di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a 1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to be in black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime green and pink but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants that... Ortwin On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-) Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone? steve schrieb: | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold! | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most | are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | My daughter requests pink. | | Maybe the only one. | | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so | you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's content. | | Half jokingly, | Michael | | steve wrote: | Ok, | | Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model. When I | get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the | innards and not the cosmetics. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM | To: List for Openmoko community discussion | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update | | Robin Paulson wrote: | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: | I also would like to have - may be separately: | - Stylus | personally, i'd want: | *a modified charger (if one is made) | *a pouch | included, and that's it | | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm | sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh | well), but include *something*. | | -id | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | | | ___ | Openmoko community mailing list | community@lists.openmoko.org | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community | -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIBCfNlYiDScJJ+7QRAh9tAJ4/Tqqr+PTRj5NVw0VaaltWG0wF9wCgmzk5 WNMr/UUpVHULk2q7y+KeGbM= =MhoO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Mini jack 2.5mm?
Space reasons. I've been told that most phones use 2,5mm today for that reason. On 4/15/08, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hei I just wonder why it is 2.5mm and not 3.5mm mini jack. After what I know 3.5mm is what is normaly used inn headsets Alexander Frøyseth ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: DHL has a package for me!
Naja, wirklich korrekt wäre: Ihren Ausweis, bitte! ;) On 4/15/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, April 15, 2008 17:09, Kevin Dean wrote: Ihre Ausweis! Korrekt: Ihren Ausweis Bitte! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: PVT Update.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Still, poor Freerunners... :'( On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product free of defects :) 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive tests. Where we try to break the phone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has the same case and screen dimensions): http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 They are a little too big but work well nonetheless. It's difficult to attach them without bubbles, though. However, you get 18 of them so you can practice a lot. I can't remember whether the instructions that came with it were in German or in English... It amounts to slowly attaching the protector millimeter for millimeter while all the time rubbing out the bubbles. I've heard this works best in a wet environment. Obviously there shouldn't be much dust around and you should clean your screen properly. Ortwin On 4/12/08, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector. It is a sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen. When affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation. However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off. Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner? Or does the Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating? If a protector is needed, will there be an option to purchase it? My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the protector, or ``bubbles'' will result. It would be great if instructions could be included with the protector on the best technique to affix it. Thanks. Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: LCD protector
Well, maybe if you ask nicely he will ship to the US anyway. On 4/13/08, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has the same case and screen dimensions): http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247 Thanks. This eBay seller says: Versand nach: Deutschland which translates to ``ship to: Germany'' according to the online German - English dictionary. I presume this means that the seller will not ship outside Germany. I am in the U.S., so this won't work :( . Ajit ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...
Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually. On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/). Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is, but it's the only thing we have: 1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the phone can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor, it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your latitude (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD brightness. Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is gone you won't need so much luminance... 2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for each hour of each week day the presumed luminance, using something like a calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day from 8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals I don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my calendar that on such interval I'll be indoor... I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why don't educate your phone for it!? 3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection available I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for example) from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these informations with points 1 and 2) What do you think about them? I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if they won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a smart workaround. -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex heuristics we're 1) going to get it wrong 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than we save by them. -Nick ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Quikwriting
Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across. http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html There have been positive comments towards it on the list before. Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :) Ortwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: accelerometer thought
Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off. On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote: It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit my typical use about 99% of the time. Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the others think? :M: ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wireless charger for Neo
Why not simply use standard wireless USB chargers? On 4/1/08, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Some mobile phone vendors are now looking into wireless charging. A wireless charger technology is more user-friendly than the traditional wired phone chargers. However, users will only truly benefit from the interoperability between chargers for different phones if the vendors agree on a common protocol; otherwise, we'll have the same situation as we have now with wired chargers: every phone vendor makes their own charger incompatible with the others. In fact, an open protocol for transfer of electricity over IP has existed since 2002: RFC 3251 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3251.txt. After DVE (Discrete Voltage Encoding), the electric current can be quickly and securely transmitted to one or more devices over WiFi or Bluetooth in an MPLampS infrastructure. A consumer device can then decode the voltage and use it to recharge its battery. Will OpenMoko, with its openness, be the first to implement MPLampS? -- Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: TomTom on Openmoko?
On 3/27/08, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, March 27, 2008 1:33 pm, Christ van Willegen wrote: Have you seen the progress that's been made in The Netherlands? i.e.: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.375lon=5.24898zoom=17layers=B0FT (yes, there are houses on there...) It is very good. Presumably data from a Dutch publicly funded mapping agency has been uploaded into the OSM databases. By comparison if you zoom out an scroll south until you get to the border with Belgium, the situation is very different. Major towns are just dots on the map with perhaps the road thought the center but nothing else. The situation for France appears to be even worse. The motorway network appears to be complete, but much of the national trunk road network is missing, let alone most towns and local roads. If you attempted to use an OSM based satellite navigation system for a journey across France you would not get very far. What I am saying is that the OSM project looks promising and is a great idea, but without major contributions from big publicly funded databases it is only ever going to be a collection of small areas with good detail separated by vast areas where just major roads are shown. Unlike a software project like Linux the contributions from a few hundread talented developers will never be enough. Unless a public body pays for it, The only way for a particular town to get mapped is for an OSM enthusiast _in_that_town_ to spend a lot of their time recording routes along every street, and then editing it all together. I just don't think there will be enough enthusiasts do do that outside major university towns. -- David Pottage Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community I disagree. At the moment, very few people have GPS equipped devices. This will change rapidly in the future as GPS chips become the next thing being put into every mobile phone. I am sure that Open Streetmap will start to grow as fast as Wikipedia, then, and soon be unbeatable in being up-to-date and complete. Just look at how fascinated people were and are with Google Earth! If it's pretty easy for them to contribute, many will. At this point I don't worry about how complete OSM is. I worry about how I can contribute to make it more complete! Sounds like it's already possible to gather data for it with the Neo. I'll start asap. Ortwin ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Openmoko strives for openness
What would be interesting to know: What is the next thing Openmoko wants to do? A GTA03 Neo device with some changes in functionality but keeping the general design? An entirely new device with possibly other/revolutionary design goals? Multiple devices at the same time? How about a TI OMAP3 as SoC? They seem to somewhat support open source Linux though I'm not sure to what extent and if they can be pushed further in the right direction. http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbusplashcontent.tsp?templateId=6123contentId=4752 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/gencontent.tsp?contentId=36915 http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html Pandora ( http://www.openpandora.org/ ) uses the OMAP 3530. I'd like to see a similarly powerful, similar form factor Openmoko device. Maybe a cooperation with the Pandora guys would be possible, adding Bluetooth and phone functionality to it? Putting the rootfs on an internal microSD card sounds like it would make sense. I'd like to have a second SD slot though, that is easier to access. Full SD would be nice for that but microSD probably more practical in a phone. I don't have much of a clue about these things but here is what the boot mechanism should make possible: The first part starting the system has to be permanent and only flashable with some effort (debug board). It should never need a reflash. This part has to check if the user wants to start up normally (power button) or wants to reflash the internal memory (power + aux). The internal memory would contain everything that can change, such as the boot loader and the OS. Flashing needs to be possible over USB. So what needs to change is that flashing the internal memory isn't a function of the bootloader, which sits in internal memory, but rather something put into a part that boots up first and can't be changed without the debug board and thus not destroyed by a virus or software failures. The need of a debug board for repairing messed up software would vanish. Ortwin On 3/19/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, I wanted to point out to you something that has been happening quietly for awhile now. Often discussions start on Openmoko internal mailing lists. Suddenly we realize the discussion is important and that there is no reason for it to remain internal. There is a constant trend of moving these discussions from internal lists to public lists. Many Openmoko employees do this, but I'd particularly like to publicly thank Wolfgang Spraul for championing this and for setting up a culture that encourages everyone to think in these terms. I realize that often you, the world outside, see these discussions appear on the external lists and perhaps don't realize that this is a deliberate action on our part to hold as much discussion as possible in public rather than private forums. Regards, Michael Original Message Subject: Post- GTA02 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:27:47 + From: Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks - We had some internal talk about how to go post GTA02 and Wolfgang wants us to make it external. We have a choice about basing on S3C2443 or S3C6400. A lot of the info is confidential but not these high level things which are public domain on Samsung's site. S3C2443 is an 130nm incremental improvement over the 2442 in GTA02 with 480Mbps USB Device (not OTG) and better clock scaling. It can accept x16 DDR memory. S3C6400 is 90nm and has 480Mbps USB2 OTG, 667MHz max clock, some 2D acceleration and can accept x32 DDR memory. http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229partnum=S3C6400 http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/8/21/661267ptb_s3c6400_rev15.pdf I like the 6400 better but information is a bit scarce right now and it can go either way. Some other concepts kicked around: - Merge the debug board function on to the phone, perhaps with internal micro USB used for debricking and hacking. No write-once memory. - Discard U-Boot, minimal bootloader direct to kernel - Focus on SD Card rootfs rather than internal memory - Add a small lowpower MPU like TI MPS430 to manage everything seamlessly when main CPU is down. Stuff like motion sensors, wake sources, battery management, maybe touchscreen, leds so there is an always-on guiding hand in the phone that is consistent and reliable To be clear though -- GTA02 is soon going to actually exist, and this is just future talk right now. But because of that, if you have any ideas about future arch, now is the time to throw them in and they will at least get the time of day. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH4OqjOjLpvpq7dMoRAldNAJ4kDtEv4ktKAVdw9UlW1G9+fEUMvgCfdH1e
Re: OpenMoko and accessories design
How about using Bluetooth? Yeah, it would be a little strange but think of it like this: You could take your phone out of the cradle when it has finished charging and it would continue playing music while you'd read the next chapter of your ebook in your bed. With WLAN and Bluetooth, the only thing you really need a physical connection for is charging. Ortwin On 3/12/08, Etienne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I know that what I'm gonna ask for is coming in quite late regarding the state of the design of the Neo, but still, I have to ask. I can see quite an opportunity for the Freerunner to be a device around which anybody can design additionnal accessories, thanks to the open philosophy around it. I especially would like to see (or design myself) some kind of base station like the ones existing for the iPod with high-quality loudspeakers. Something like that would obviously provide a mean to recharge the phone battery, but could also be designed to provide conference-call features around the Freerunner. However, from a mechanical point of view, I can see a major show-stopper, being the fact that the Freerunner connectors are positionned on both sides of the device, which leads to no solution to easily drop the device on a base station. I know I'm asking for a big change, but is there any chance the layout can be re-arranged so that the on/off button and the audio connector switch positions in the Freerunner ? Regards, -- Etienne ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....
On 3/4/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the longer I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone. The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great innovation among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks. However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) -- what do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and rotate very efficient on unitouch systems. So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone? :M: If there will ever be a dedicated OpenMoko gaming device, it needs a multitouch screen. However, with a phone, even if it is a fully featured pocket computer, I can't think of many things where it would be useful, either. Zooming and rotating should be very doable with one finger and some thinking. In fact, much of this thinking was already done on this list months ago. When multitouch screens become cheap and easy to get, of course one should be included in every Openmoko device. For now it seems like a very low priority thing. We haven't even begun to explore the potential of a unitouch screen! I don't want much right clicking on my phone. However, if it ever becomes useful/necessary somewhere, you can always assign it to AUX+tap. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
On 3/3/08, Gilbert Hartmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Does anyone know how this compares to the feedback on the Wii when using the keyboard? It sounds fairly similar (save for the Wii's lack of a touchscreen) - --Bert It should be similar but there is a major difference: On the Wii you get vibration feedback all the time while you are pointing at the screen. On the Neo you only get vibration feedback when touching the screen and touching the screen already means that you are pressing a button. (On a standard touchscreen keyboard at least.) To make vibration feedback with a tapping-keyboard more useful, the force of the vibration could indicate whether you hit a key right in the middle or more to the rim (and thus maybe hit the wrong key). I'm not sure how much the force of a short vibration can be tuned on the Neo but this is certainly something worth finding out. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: iphone-haptic
On 3/2/08, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about this?? http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/ it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!! I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. All it does is tell you that you pressed a button at all. That might be a little better than no feedback at all but it can't replace much of the visual or audible feedback. To make this more useful, interaction with the touchscreen would need to include more sliding motions and less tapping because with a sliding motion you can give constant vibration feedback. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering if you already examined the following Wiki-Link? We had a very extensive discussion about text input running on the community list several months ago. Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even a java demo available) and another text input (although it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ). If I remember correctly, all participants of the discussion came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not sufficient no matter how clever you pimp it, due to restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen space. i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use of it disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is disagreeing. users of that code are disagreeing. I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel keyboard on the market now. Bar none. Sean Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to. We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as well as making it easy for the user to install more of them. Some options I can think of that would find an audience: -Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary, closeness, combination, none) -Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if patent issues can be avoided) -Dasher -A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one. The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options: -Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work with a stylus. -Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two lines of the text I last typed. For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available. Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method: The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a 3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares drawn in the right direction. Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos sliding motion. There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special characters-combination. The character layout shouldn't follow any alphabet or QWERTY logic but instead be entirely based on language. The reason is that it would require learning from the ground up anyway so it should be as fast as possible once you have learned it. The small version for only taking up 1/3 of the screen would be perfect in 2*5 which would also result in 44 combinations (again, if I counted them right...). Feedback and actual implementation of this would be very welcome! In fact, I offer 30 Paypal €uros to the first person to make this work on my Neo (meaning it has to come with simple installation instructions). Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...
On 3/1/08, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering if you already examined the following Wiki-Link? We had a very extensive discussion about text input running on the community list several months ago. Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even a java demo available) and another text input (although it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ). If I remember correctly, all participants of the discussion came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not sufficient no matter how clever you pimp it, due to restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen space. i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use of it disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is disagreeing. users of that code are disagreeing. I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel keyboard on the market now. Bar none. Sean Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to. We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as well as making it easy for the user to install more of them. Some options I can think of that would find an audience: -Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary, closeness, combination, none) -Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if patent issues can be avoided) -Dasher -A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one. The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options: -Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work with a stylus. -Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two lines of the text I last typed. For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available. Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method: The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a 3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares drawn in the right direction. Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos sliding motion. There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special characters-combination. The character layout shouldn't follow any alphabet or QWERTY logic but instead be entirely based on language. The reason is that it would require learning from the ground up anyway so it should be as fast as possible once you have learned it. The small version for only taking up 1/3 of the screen would be perfect in 2*5 which would also result in 44 combinations (again, if I counted them right...). Feedback and actual implementation of this would be very welcome! In fact, I offer 30 Paypal €uros to the first person to make this work on my Neo (meaning it has to come with simple installation instructions). Ortwin Well, so I can't count. If you consider that valid 3 square motions are also moving to another square and then moving back to the old one (which I didn't above) you end up with 68 for 3*3 and 70 for 2*5. However, it might make
Re: Idea of a voice mail application
And people just accept paying for incoming connections?! I still can't get over how US phone contracts work... O.o On 3/2/08, Mark Haury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29 Feb 2008, at 17:34, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: siaPeter Trapp ha scritto: Hi everybody, I thought about the possibility of a voice mail installed on the neo. The idea is to let the application decide if you are reachable for the caller or not. The decision will be done on profiles (time, who is calling, what to do (let it ring or answer directly) ). Eg: Saturday 10:00pm and your boss is calling (and you have a signal) Neo is aware that it is weekend and who is calling. It just turns on the voice mail... Dear Boss, actually it is weekend and I just don't want to get some work right now. Sorry, my neo will not even inform me that you've called. So don't try again later. It would not help until Monday 9am! Have a nice weekend --- without the possibility to leave a message ;) I would like this feature also, and really I assumed it would become a commonplace usage on OpenMoko. Cool, but your caller will pay for this.. So maybe it won't be so happy :P Stuff the caller. I carry a mobile phone so I can make outgoing calls when I'm away from home, not so I can be interrupted in the middle of a conversation. If someone is calling me they assume that they're going to incur the cost of a call, anyway, so I don't see that the cost of a call to voicemail is a large imposition (it is probably better than me answering my phone to say stuff you, at least). Stroller. In the USA, the originator of the call is irrelevant. It charges against your plan minutes regardless of whether you are making or receiving a cellular call. So if software on your phone is picking up the line and your phone itself is acting as the answering machine, it will use up your minutes as well as costing the caller minutes. Actually, if they're using a landline and you are a local call for them, it won't cost the caller anything, while it uses your minutes regardless. The exception is that often if the caller and the recipient are both on the same network, neither is charged. I know that's true of T-Mobile. Another issue is that this function will only work if your phone is both turned on and in service. Of course, maybe this functionality is only needed in that situation anyway (e.g. you are in service and want to receive calls from certain people and not certain others.) That said, I still think it's an extremely useful function for the phone to have by virtue of its power and flexibility. If it could do things like give different outgoing messages based on who's calling, or forward the incoming message (maybe even send to email?), or automatically send a text message and that kind of thing, it would be really cool. The suggestions of real-time screening (like you can do with a home answering machine) and sending calls from specific numbers (or all but specific numbers) directly to the provider's system voicemail are great too. Mark ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Booting from SD
The problem might be your u-boot version. Try this one: http://buildhost.automated.it/u-boot-good-for-sd-boot-r13_0_2632_0.bin It's what I've been using successfully. I never could get it to work with other u-boot versions I tried. Ortwin On 2/28/08, Emre Turkay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi folks, I've downloaded the Feb.20.2008 images from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D , formatted the SD card as ext3, and prepared the SD for Boot as described in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD. When I selected boot from sdcard option from the boot menu I've got a long list of errors (I couldn't read them) just before I was about to give up I've got the text login: screen. The sshd was not working either. What's wrong and I wonder did anybody successfully use the boot from sd card option? Thanks, Emre Turkay ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Unbutu mobile
Where do you draw the line? The Freerunner should be at least at the lower end of that spectrum. On 2/26/08, Nils Faerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dean Collins schrieb: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile Any thoughts? Different target: Leveraging the MID MIDs typically have the following features and attributes: * Small size/form factor * 4 to 7 inch touch screen * Physical and/or virtual keyboard * Wi-Fi, 3G, Bluetooth, GPS, WiMAX * 2GB to 8GB Flash or disk storage, 256MB+ memory/512MB+ recommended * OpenGL 3D * USB, camera, head phone jack, speakers, microphone Ubuntu mobile is targetting UMPC class devices, not mobile phones or PDAs. Regards, Dean Collins Cheers nils faerber -- kernel concepts GbRTel: +49-271-771091-12 Sieghuetter Hauptweg 48Fax: +49-271-771091-19 D-57072 Siegen Mob: +49-176-21024535 -- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Interview with Raider Realm
It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02 that supports 850 Mhz when they become available. Ortwin On 2/12/08, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I will am talking about RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to use on different networks? MS: Yup. Absolutely. Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in the states, but much more common in the rest of the world. But there are some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that. But that's pretty small. In fact, I think it's virtually negligible. My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our shipping cost. If the answer is I dont know,maybe in a few months or somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC to rectify this issue now or in the future. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Schematics, circuit diagrams
How about a different deal: We collect donations to get you a new phone and you make your findings public under a free license? On 2/10/08, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi hardware-hackers! Anybody interested in my story? How i completely disassembled my GTA01, put everything on a needlebed-tester, and checked the parts (including reconstructed schematics) Paperprint only, about 5 pages DIN-A2. No digital data. $79,90 Sorry for this price, i have to buy a new GTA, for obvious reasons ;-) Old one didn't do it anymore. Orders will be stacked and shipped all at same day when order volume is sufficient. coming soon: how i disassembled my GTA02... Eagle-files free your phone! ;-) jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
Tilting is an awful control method for almost anything. The main reason being that you move the screen around while tilting. Other problems are that it's exausting and lacks feedback. Even tilting to automatically switch the screen orientation can be annoying if you're lying on your side in your bed reading an ebook. I can not imagine any useful contribution of tilting to text input. Ortwin On Dec 5, 2007 2:52 PM, Joseph J. McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if you could tilt the Neo to switch keyboards instead. Or, perhaps, instead of multi-tap you tilt and press 2 to get B instead of hold horizontal and tap 2 to get A. It seems that the accelerometers could be used to make the keyboard easier to use. Now that I am typing perhaps the coolest, would be to have something like a full qwerty with keys that are too big to fit the whole keyboard on the screen, but you tilt it to access the off-screen ones (you tilt left and the keyboard slides over so that you can get to the L key). Just some thoughts. Joe Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: Wiadomość napisana w dniu Dec 5, 2007, o godz 10:14 AM, przez Thomas Wood: On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 09:20 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote: For me it's also finger-usable keyboard - just like the one in Qtopia. With that you can operate your phone without stylus (in most cases). Chris has worked on a multi-tap input method: http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten That's wonderful news! What I also like in Qtopia's keyboard is ability to switch between number, symbol and letters keyboard by moving you finger down or up on keyboard. Obviously T9 will not be implemented due to patent issues. I will ask him if the source is available anywhere. T9 is not necessary important (i.e. I do not use english on my phone so probably I would need to hack it to include polish T9 database). It is useful in SMSes but not on writing URLs or console ;) cayco ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Joseph J. McCarthy, Associate Professor and William Kepler Whiteford Faculty Fellow Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering University of Pittsburgh 1249 Benedum Hall Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15261 Ph. 412-624-7362; Fax 412-624-9639 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://granular.che.pitt.edu ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: need someone to develop this....
On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging an encryption key. So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been recognized on the other. Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard encryption keys. All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range. You mean... like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58 An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low speeds... B) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
If they suspect you anyway. Quote: *In some cases, judges have granted the requests without even requiring the government to demonstrate probable cause that a crime is taking place or that the inquiry will yield evidence of a crime * I wonder how difficult it would be for criminals or the music industry to obtain that data? In Germany, our bloody joke of a government has just passed a law that orders companies to keep this data for half a year! On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 AM, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you just obey the law, when will they ever need to track you? justin daly skrev: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/23/196229from=rss http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/23/196229from=rss please don't let the rest of the world fall under the same privacy stranglehold. i wholeheartedly support this open platform that gives its users the control to turn -any- of its radios on or off at will (of the operator...). thank you fic and openmoko! i can't wait to get some of these for my friends... justin daly ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Battery time
Yeah, PLEASE give us a terminal! I'm a complete noob at all things Linux but I already don't feel right if I don't have a terminal to mess with... Later when the Neo is a consumer ready device it might be a good idea to take the terminal out of the versions for the general public (or at least hide it well). At this point, though, everybody using the Neo with Qtopia should be interested in a terminal or at least not confused by it. ;) Ortwin On Nov 11, 2007 3:12 PM, Peter A Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * No terminal. Ugh. Do you really need a terminal app on a phone? Most phones do not have a term on them. besides, it is opensource, so anyone could get one working. Any takers? I guess most/all here are geeks. I have to admit that the first thing I want to know before buying a new smart phone is can I use a terminal/ssh on it. pocket putty was a blessing. But I hope much better things will come from this project. Maybe I will try to carve out some time in December... I'm guessing anyone into Linux is going to want this though :) -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons
On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480, it's still tiny) The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text input but there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around to solve that. and the ruggedness of the device I can't say too much about that but it seems pretty solid to me. I read about other people's buttons breaking and that sounds like a realistic issue if you use them a lot. You should get some sort of protector foil for the screen as the danger of damaging it is always big, especially with touchscreens. My requirements are: 640x480 (for suitably transcoded movies), From my experience with devices, the GTA02 hardware should do that pretty easily. I have not idea how long it will take until the necessary software is written/ported, though. runs Linux It obviously does that. wireless access Do you mean WLAN? The GTA02 will have the hardware and probably the software after a short while. can make occasional phone calls. The GTA01 already makes phone calls. And a general note: Your tone is very agressive and demanding. This does nothing but annoy people. I'd recommend you try to be more friendly and tolerant of seemingly unnecessary comments and people will probably be more friendly to you. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons
On Nov 13, 2007 1:12 AM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ortwin Regel wrote: On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480, it's still tiny) The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text input but there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around to solve that. How about in terms of viewing movies or graphics - is that sensible; the pixels are surely minuscule? It's quite hard to see the individual pixels but as far as I'm concerned this is a good thing. Things look very sharp. Of course, some pictures and videos might have to be scaled up to fit the screen. The Neo is not the best virtual picture frame or movie theatre but it should be great for viewing high res videos and photos (high res for a mobile device) on the go. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?
Well, we've got the Aux button to replace that. As far as I understood it it's a simple button press thing. On Nov 6, 2007 8:36 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What are the features of the chumby? Wi-fi connectivity • access to the free Chumby Network • 3.5 LCD color touchscreen • two external USB 2.0 full-speed ports • 350 MHz ARM processor • 64 MB SDRAM • 64 MB NAND flash ROM • stereo 2W speakers • headphone output • squeeze sensor • accelerometer (motion sensor) • leather casing • AC adapter included I think the GTA02 would handle that just fine. The only thing it's missing is the squeeze sensor. -Steven On 11/6/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software on OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible? Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped OpenMoko device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while. After five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically and displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of the power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko. Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got all the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make sense if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the house. Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though, so it would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the GTA02, we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?
Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software on OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible? Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped OpenMoko device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while. After five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically and displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of the power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko. Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got all the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make sense if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the house. Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though, so it would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the GTA02, we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: HD8X FCC approved
I hope their awesome fresh software will run on our Neo1973s, too. I'd gladly pay money for that stuff. :) Would be great if they could keep the data open, though. Anyone from Dash around who can comment a little more on what is planned? Ortwin On 10/31/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... I'm assuming that it runs or will run Openmoko. Tim O'Reilly said so too: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/dash_web2summit_openmoko.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title
This discussion has been had before. The conclusion was that you should get a better email app. On 10/18/07, David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone. Still new so i'm mainly lurking for now. I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins. I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list descriptor like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by the list. It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to sort my mailbox by hand daily. David p.s. I'm not really a developer, but would be interested in learning about how to develop apps or other modules for openmoko. I did take some programming classes in uni (mainly C++), but I find that if I can get a handle of syntax, i can figure out the way programs work.Anyways, anyone have a recommendation where to start (learn)? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer
This doesn't work well because the screen moves with the phone. So if you want to scroll right fast, you'll have trouble to see what's going on on the screen. Scrolling should rather be done on the touchscreen because that works really well. However, dragging the map/website as if it was physical is too slow in most cases. Increasing scrolling velocity by the distance from the initial touchpoint would probably be a good idea but adjustable scrolling speed would be great already. Instead of scrolling one screen far when I move my finger once across the screen, I want to scroll four screens so that I get where I want quicker. Someone else might only want to scroll one screen. Kinetic scrolling can extend this and look/feel awesome but also be very annoying so it should probably be optional. Now what do we do with the accelerometer? I like the zooming idea. It shouldn't require a hardware button press because those are kind of hard to press. Touching the screen should be enough and it would mean that you can zoom and scroll at the same time and pretty intuitively. About the initial idea: Judging from my DS accelerometer (which is different hardware but should be relatively similar), the sampling frequency will probably be pretty high. I still doubt that you can reliably differentiate between walking and hitting the phone. However, it might be possible to shake it two or three times with a frequency faster than any form of running and it should be possible to detect this. This probably won't help you if the phone is hidden in a huge backpack. It's also important to remember that the motion of picking up your phone should not lead to denial of the call... ;) Ortwin On 10/12/07, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 12 October 2007, Oliver wrote: I've had similar ideas, but haven't posted them yet. Here's one: Imagine you're surfing the internet, or checking a map, or something like that. We don't have a multi-touch screen, so we can't zoom out with our fingers like iPhone users. Zooming out, though, is something we really should be able to do. So just hold a hardware button and bring the phone closer to your face! The site/image should be shrunk in such a way that you'll think it is stationary behind the phone, and the phone screen is a window through which you can view this image/site! When you've spotted something you want to focus on, somewhere else on the page, don't scroll, just keep holding the button bringing the phone/window down to that place. If you stop holding the button, the image can either stay where it is, or go to it's original zoom-level. Just imagine, if you think of the screen as a window, what incredibly fun games you could develop for the phone! I think a better idea would be to think of the screen as a mirror that you are using to view a much larger page behind you. That way you can intuitively scroll both vertically and horizontally a large page or map by tilting the screen, and without using the touchscreen. (Which can be reserved for other functions). A lot of UI ideas here are coppied from other touch screen devices. That's fine where appropriate, but the Neo 1973 is the only phone with built in accelerometers, and I think we should make use of them where we can. We should not just copy the iPhone or whatever, that only uses it's accelerometer as a tilt sensor to make the display image the right way up. -- David Pottage ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD
Because I couldn't get booting from SD to work with either Qtopia or OpenMoko, I tried the other option ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973#Qtopia_AND_OpenMoko_Option_1). It doesn't work, either. The gui vanishes and the last few lines (after lots of lines related to pressing buttons/touching the screen) are: FreeFontPath: FPE built-ins refcount is 2, should be 1; fixing. PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs3 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa3 xinit: unexpected signal 15. PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs2 PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa2 I've got no idea what any of this means. o.o Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Ortwin On 10/7/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get booting from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must be missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems to suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on. Ortwin On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ian douglas pisze: [...] So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously have already tried Qtopia on the Neo. Thanks, Ian I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had to do (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified that both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now. Please notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have downloaded for Openmoko. [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0* brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0 brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1 [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005) Etykieta systemu plików= Typ OS: Linux Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0) Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0) 123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków 24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika Pierwszy blok danych=1 Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152 61 grup bloków 8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie 2032 i-węzłów w grupie Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach: 8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409 Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez tune2fs -c lub -i. [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/ razem 12 drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01- qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls /media/card/ bin boot dev etc home lib lost+found media mnt opt proc sbin sys tmp usr var [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls /media/card/boot/ zImage [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # cp Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/ [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/ [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l razem 1608 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage - zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11 [root: /media/card/boot] # ln -s uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.binuImage [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l razem 1608 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 wrz 27 20:30 uImage - uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage - zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11 [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # cd [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # umount /media/card [root: ~] # [root: ~] # and that's it... Piotr P.S. sorry for output in polish, but it is nothing important... good luck
Looking for debug board near Hildesheim/Germany
Well, it had to happen sooner or later. I thought it might be a good idea to try different u-boot versions to get around my little dual boot problem. It wasn't. My Neo doesn't want to power on anymore. So is there anyone who can fix my Neo with their fancy debug board reasonably near Hildesheim? I'd rather drive over personally than send the thing via post if it can be avoided. From tomorrow until Saturday I'll be in Frankfurt for the book fair so if you are in that area you could help me out, too, if you answer fast. Unfortunately I don't know if I'll have easy internet access down there and of course I won't have a phone... :P Please help me! Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: rootfs?
A list of different places: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D has updates every few days and the images are a little customized. It's also got Qtopia images. http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D updates often, too, and it's got the archive version you need if you want to boot from SD card. On 10/8/07, Zalunin Pavel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: where I can get rootfs for OpenMoko? I was tried to download it from rapidshare, but we have non-stable internet and this way isn't real for belarussian people:) best regards, Zalunin Pavel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD
I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get booting from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must be missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems to suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on. Ortwin On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ian douglas pisze: [...] So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously have already tried Qtopia on the Neo. Thanks, Ian I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had to do (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified that both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now. Please notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have downloaded for Openmoko. [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0* brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0 brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1 [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005) Etykieta systemu plików= Typ OS: Linux Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0) Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0) 123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków 24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika Pierwszy blok danych=1 Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152 61 grup bloków 8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie 2032 i-węzłów w grupie Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach: 8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409 Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez tune2fs -c lub -i. [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/ razem 12 drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01- qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls /media/card/ bin boot dev etc home lib lost+found media mnt opt proc sbin sys tmp usr var [root: ~] # [root: ~] # ls /media/card/boot/ zImage [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # cp Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/ [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/ [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l razem 1608 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage - zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11 [root: /media/card/boot] # ln -s uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.binuImage [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l razem 1608 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 wrz 27 20:30 uImage - uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage - zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11 [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # [root: /media/card/boot] # cd [root: ~] # [root: ~] # [root: ~] # umount /media/card [root: ~] # [root: ~] # and that's it... Piotr P.S. sorry for output in polish, but it is nothing important... good luck ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: qtopia flash image update
With the latest build from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ I can unlock the phone after inputting my PIN two times but it doesn't want to register with the network. Also, the phone is very unresponsive and only registers touch screen input every once in a while. Sounds like this might be related: http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=499forum=4Guess I'll have to try the ssh thing when I put the next build on my Neo but it would really help if a terminal app was included in Qtopia... Ortwin On 10/2/07, Heilpern, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go to the unlock screen. The bottom left soft menu is unlock, but touching the screen there doesn't register at all. Holding in the power button for a moment provides the restart/shutdown menu. Selecting shutdown device puts the clock icon on screen but doesn't go beyond that. Instead, it appears that the phone has crashed hard; only removal of the battery gets results from here. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andy selby Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:42 PM To: List for OpenMoko community discussion Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo. a few Known issues: * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem working again. * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings) * no modem mux (no gprs) * no mms support (no wap stack integrated) * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work. Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the device doesn't work? but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community NOTE: The information in this message is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s) named above. To the extent the recipient(s) is/are bound by a non-disclosure agreement, or other agreement that contains an obligation of confidentiality, with AuthenTec, then this message and/or any attachments shall be considered confidential information and subject to the confidentiality terms of that agreement. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient named above, you are notified that you have received this document in error, and any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document in error, please delete the original message and notify the sender immediately. Thank you. AuthenTec, Inc. http://www.authentec.com ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Right-click (as opposed to left-click)
Right click could be emulated by pressing and holding AUX and then tapping. Of course that means that other AUX button functionality could only be activated after releasing the button without touching the screen. Native apps should never need right clicking, though. It would only be useful for fast ports. Ortwin On 10/7/07, Mikkel Meyer Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Cheers for the tip, but I also mean in general. It would be nice to could widen the functionality so that different clicks can be made. Maybe just through an icon in the panel (this should work as a setting so that the type click could be selected by activating that specific panel-item). Well, still gonna check you tip later for that specific game :-). / Mikkel ian douglas skrev: On my old Treo, you could press the stylus on a square, and drag up to flag it, or drag left to clear a flag. Dunno if the OM version of the game does that though. If not, it'd be handy if it did. -id Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote: Hi, I've just tried Mines (testing purposes only, of course!), but it's kind of hard to win with-out being able to right-click. Does anyone know how to perform such an exotic action? Regards, Mikkel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo Developer Version
Pretty sure they are GTA01 as we haven't heard anything about GTA02 being finalized and it isn't planned before October anyway. Ortwin On 9/26/07, Andreas Hennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello! Some more Phase 1 Neo's will be shiped end of september. Does somebody now, whether they will be GTA02 or GTA01? Thanks ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is neo1973 dual boot possible?
Seems like it should, with the instructions at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD . Could someone prepare binaries ready for putting onto my SD card? And is there a program that can format cards with different filesystems from Windows? Ortwin On 9/21/07, Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My idea is to have one OS on flash memory and second on SD card. Anybody knows if it would work? Regards, -- *Bartlomiej Zdanowski* Programmer Product Research Development Department AutoGuard S.A. Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw Registration no.: 287629 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747 Omulewska 27 street 04-128 Warsaw Poland phone +48 22 611 69 23 www.autoguard.pl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: stylus alternative
There is also http://www.comfortstylus.com/ which kind of works. It's especially well suited for FPS games on the DS, probably not the best thing for phone navigation, though. The problem with all the finger attachments is that your finger still pretty much obstructs the view instead of being replaced by a much thinner stylus. By the way, if you keep looking around for finger cap styli for the DS, you can find some really scary looking ones... Ortwin On 9/10/07, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so, i've been following the discussion on finger-based vs. stylus-based apps. and i thought it might be a good idea to come up with some ideas for something between the two: a short (20-30mm long) piece of kit, attached to the finger end it would not be gripped between fingers and thumb but instead would slip over the end of one finger. it could either be a metal/plastic ring, or a soft, close-fitting cap, such as the rubber types used by money-counters. a point would be needed to apply pressure to the screen - this could be a short piece of metal/plastic, rigidly attached to the ring/cap part of the stylus. myself, i would be more likely to carry one (lot smaller than stylus, cheap to replace if lost) and if it was well-designed it would be virtually unnoticeable by others anyone else see my vision? or am i insane? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.
On 8/26/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the FRONT of the GTA02 sales queue? Why dont I have a billion dollars? I really want it and I could really use it... Why don't I get respect from a company I'm trying to support at my expense? I really want it and I could really use it. You are getting respect but not magic. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
Learn to use Gmail. Also it's relevant for everything where you can only see the first X letters of a topic in your list of emails. Like pretty much every mail client and webmail interface out there. So adding the tags to the end of the subject line is a pretty good idea which I could live with while adding them to the front would really annoy me. On 8/14/07, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oops again. That reply to thing is a bitch. -- Forwarded message -- From: hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Aug 14, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: Re: mailing list management To: Daniel Mewes [EMAIL PROTECTED] I use pager notification for my e-mails and text paging in Germany has a very limited message length. Wow. now thats a great target design platform for a mailing list. lol. Hank ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gaming with the Neo
I'd prefer a Wiimote attached to the Neo with some kind of plastic holder but this is a nice alterative. On 8/7/07, Mario Wewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone of you ever saw something like this? http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8s=ce-deqid=1186487069sr=1-57 I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected to the phone via bluetooth) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
I love the rumors... Really hope they are true! :D On 8/7/07, Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/4/07, Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo? Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and open alike. Looks like I might end up eating my words: There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing a gPhone mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to team up with OpenMoko for their gPhone. Google will not be using the FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through HTC, and making a few changes along the way. Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_itempx=NTk1Mw J. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
I guess you can't have a revolution without breaking some laws... ;) On 8/7/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6 Aug 2007, at 23:58, Ortwin Regel wrote: Run an open Wifi node. It's becoming less and less of a good idea to do that these days. You are responsible for any activity on your connection, so if someone commits a crime you'll have a hard time proving it wasn't you. But anyway, on the topic of wifi, is anyone planning any Wifi tools? easily sharing data like music, ringtones, browser links, contact card etc? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Finger Graffiti
Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant. Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying. Ortwin On 7/30/07, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Rod Whitby wrote: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark .. Hmm ... someone could just as well say: Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark .. Is someone actually developing something which uses the OpenMoko properties? I don't think so. Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it? I'm not saying don't be trademark-sensitive, I'm saying that worrying about the Graffiti trademark is irrelevant, because nobody is putting, actually, Graffiti into anything. There are plenty of Graffiti alternatives around .. it just happens that Graffiti is what people know finger painting on your PDA to be .. its common enough to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger- painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface. Graffiti, itself, is useless to us. Similar techniques which do not violate anyones rights are useful; to discuss, to implement, and hopefully to use. Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any software package with the trademarked term Graffiti in it's name. And he said he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually harping on it. It would have been wonderful advice if there is actually some release going on. Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too. You can't favour and protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another. I don't care about the trademark issue until there is actually something to attach a mark to. So far, there is nothing in this direction. All I care about is that the technical creativity not be stifled by legalese so soon in the game .. ; ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Java games for openMoko
Remember that the Neo doesn't have the buttons for games. The touchscreen can only do one button at a time, so an external gamepad (USB or Wiimote) would be necessary. Ortwin On 7/27/07, John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I'm sorry but I'm new to the openMoko system. So my question, is it possible to play java games, like for other mobiles, on the openMoko? I know, they must be compiled for it. But is it possible to play in the same, easy way, some java games? Thanks, John ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months
Only Tchibo - Tchibo calls are free, and only for 24 months if you buy before 2007-08-09. To benefit from this you'd have to get two or more of this offer and give one to everyone you phone often. SMS are relatively expensive and I wasn't able to find anything about data... Ortwin On 7/27/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salve, sorry that this is only a tip for OpenMoko people in Germany - there is a quite interesting offer since today: Prepaid SIM for 5 Euro with free calls to other SIMs (users) of this special sold offer for the next 24 month. I haven't found a limitation of minutes/month. http://www.tchibo.de :) I think there is something like fair-use so when you/I use this offer less intensive then some teenies This offer use the network of O2 and it could be that this free calls are only valid inside the O2 network in Germany. If the mobil use the D1 roaming inside Germany it could be that this calls are not for free... (I will check this) and realy cool would it be, when datacalls from Tchibo-SIM to Tchibo-SIM would be free as well. The selling this special Prepaid-cards is anounced to run until 9.8.2007. See also: http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw30/s26634.html BTW: the shops have mobils as well, I had the luck to get a Nokia 1112 with Prepaid SIM for 20 Euro. The battery BL-5CA of this mobil is Neo1973 compatible (already tested) and has a charger that could help when your are going to buy a stand alone battery charger from Nokia or third-party vendor. The FIC GTC-01/GTA-01 battery is setting the Nokia 1112 into test mode - so this 20 Euro inc Prepaid-SIM offer is not realy likly to work as Second Battery for the neo, Battery Charger and Prepaid-SIM deal But the sim itself (with a second sim of this offer) would be very interesting to use with the neo. It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring
On 7/27/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There might come Neo1974 or even Neo2007 Yes. And actually, nijutsu will also tell us about the Neo1907 at some point :) FIC vacuum cleaner? Camera? What about the Neo968? Neo1979? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What happened to the order?
I am in the same situation. Ortwin On 7/27/07, Asbjørn Sannes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I understood correctly orders within the U.S. was shipped first, and then international developers would get their phones.. I have received three e-mails from openmoko: AutoReply: OpenMoko direct order, Your OpenMoko direct order (which I replyed to YES_I_DO), and Payment received: OpenMoko direct order. Since then I have heard nothing, but I can see from the P1 Owners page that other higher numbered rts, ordering the exact same thing (Advanced kit, B/S), to the exact same location (Oslo, Norway) have received shipping notifications. Anyone else experienced this? Is my order gone? Am I waiting for something that won't happen? Is there something that I should have done that I have not? Any pointers appreciated :) Greetings, Asbjørn Sannes ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I recently read some press article that stated that for younger people, email was dead, and everything happened on MSN. well, I, for one, won't be often in those stupid HTML forums either, I consider those things * a waste of resources and time * impossible to search so they are pretty useless also, they tend to multiply, which makes searching for relevant information rather impossible or pointless ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Most forums come with a working search engine. Don't load the images and you get pretty small pages that probably aren't bigger than the quote trains lazy top replying (I do it myself) creates. But why are we even bothering to have this discussion? Web forums aren't stupid. They are a popular tool for discussion on the internet. If you are too stupid to use them, that's not my problem. I am obviously too stupid to use mailing lists with a hundred mails a day, though. Here's the deal: -We've got a mailing list, continue using it if you can handle it. -We've got a temporary forum here: http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php Use it if you like forums. I hope we can move the content over to an official forum once it's created. There is really no need for further forums vs ML discussion. Both work, in different ways, parallel. The discussion could be continued in the forum, then at least the mailing list stays clean of spam. Ortwin ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)
You are talking about flat, web forum style threading, though. What he wants is tree style threading like in the ML archives, Slashdot comments etc. Ortwin On 7/26/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um... That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at all. You're solution is Just don't use Gmail. Duh!. That's not a valid answer to my question. Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid response: use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via POP. I use Gmail. Accept it. Now, if you had a Greasemonkey script that made Gmail thread the messages, that would be acceptable. Threaded view in Gmail client works fine ( running under Firefox 1.5 ). There are few messages here and there which jump out of thread. Maybe you should check your settings or write to google. regards VK PS:- I am also using Gmail. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: email vs forum
On the other hand, via email you load everything while on a forum you choose what to view. The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480 which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well into that resolution. How about continuing the discussion in the forum? :P Ortwin On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long experience in similar situations. Email is substantially more efficient, because it is intrinsically more powerful. For example: 8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection: - E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after loading mail. Cheap. - Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every request, staying online all the time. Really expensive. Sebastian ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much
On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying. Sounds like a good nitch to hit. I would be interested in a program like that I wonder what it would take to make one? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community A phpBB addon accomplishing that might be useful for quite a few people. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Re Multitouch
And how do you scroll? On 7/24/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : An regardin is multi touch really that awesome? I think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work. It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows Mobile). Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the same hand. Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger to middle of screen to zoom out. The above has the advantage of being possible one handed. --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be another means of communication from the dark times of the internet which most developers, old people and nerds might love. It wouldn't help in any way to expand the community, though. We are NOT looking for a way to replace the mailing list. We want to ADD another channel of communication that not everyone has to like but would attract new people. Ortwin On 7/23/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about creating a google group ? You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it as a forum. Everybody is happy. Mickael. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
On 7/21/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 20 Jul 2007, at 22:25, Ortwin Regel wrote: Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling generous. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Ortwin Regel No, you want the phone. :P At the moment it's not a fully working device, it will do very little. It will be frustrating to have a phone which does nothing. If you haven't ever had to flash a phone or use recovery methods to repair a bricked phone then you'll end up with a paperweight. I've not done much embedded development for a while, my background is in C development. I started on the Amiga and wrote some MIDI software such as MIDI drivers, audio output plugins. I did embedded development for a year, developing firmware for network hardware. Trust me, even I am a little nervous about having a Neo and not being able to contribute. So if you're not a developer you'll feel even more frustrated and impatient. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community This isn't early adopter - this is *pre* adopter - I'd suggest that the 02 model is going to be early adopter, realistically... I ordered one because I think I'm ready to do something useful with it, because * I've already done some of the relevant code in python on my Nokia 6630 with an external GPS * I've done from-scratch build and installs for the Gumstix * embedded gcc/g++ used to be my full-time job (anyone remember Cygnus? :-) * I've written code on an iCreate too * I've used an oscilliscope within the last 6 months... Remember that the one recent live demo we've seen (on youtube, that user's group meeting) involved several iterations of killing and restarting daemons from a remote session on a laptop, and answering a call with AT commands; while we *hope* it's a little more solid than that, I'm expecting that to be part of the debugging to be done in the first batch. Remember also that this one doesn't have 802.11, so until you build yourself a power+usbwifi lashup, it won't really count as a PDA either (why yes, after about 2005 if it doesn't have net it's not really a PDA :-) (I'm also expecting to pick up a cheap pay-as-you go SIM for operating the FIC with, since I actually still need to call and SMS people :-) There's also some gadget-lust going on - I'd probably buy this phone *without* a software install, if it had sufficiently documented hardware, just because (esp. as an Amateur Radio operator) it's the level of control I believe I *should* have of a piece of hardware that I'm paying for. It's pretty clear from this list that there are a lot of wildly varying fantasies built up around the phone, but I don't think anything we've heard officially that suggests that anyone for whom a command line is scary is going to get any value out of it... _Mark_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Herd Of Kittens ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm getting into. I am not absolutely certain that I can handle it but I'm willing to try. On 7/21/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ortwin, with such strong feelings, I need this phone and I need it now, you must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use. Certainly we all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before the OpenMoko even existed? Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated with something in particular. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Certainly I'll help. I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about the phone. My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can be found at: http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104fromSeriesID=104 I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying software architecture. In my mind, I divide the audience into those who
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date. What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers? Maybe we should try to get a response on how far off an official forum is. I could do some basic moderating I guess. Ortwin On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad. i think is good: - can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers) - following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler - it can have email notification for reply - could be a central point for developers too! - other motivations said by other people.. So i'm going to create a forum. Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate, and some graphics suggestions. Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former. If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait some days before start. Valerio, Italy ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OK, the forum is coming..
I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of the strong opinion that we should go with a flat forum for accessibility. Ortwin On 7/23/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moin, Am Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:31:55 + (UTC) schrieb Valerio Bruno: I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?! Anyway... Yes, in my (and probably Sebastian's) part of the Internet, phpBB does not count as a threaded forum. Based on http://aktuell.de.selfhtml.org/artikel/gedanken/foren-boards/ (sorry, it's in German, but there are clarifying pictures) I'd make a distinction between a forum, which is inherently threaded (not in the phpBB-sense), and a board, which is flat (like phpBB). A thread in a forum captures the more natural way of discussion: someone says something, multiple people reply, maybe focusing on different aspects of the original post, the discussion might drift away in more than one dimension, sub-aspects get discussed, maybe even the topic changes completely: (A, B, C are people; 1,2,3... are aspects of the subject) A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 1, brings up 5 A responds to 5 C responds to 5 (from A's post) etc... Graph-theoretically speaking: Real[tm] threads are trees. (Well, actually, from a real-world point of view they should be directed acyclic graphs, meaning that one could reply to more than one posting at a time. But that just adds all sorts of headaches and is difficult to visualize. It's like multiple inheritance in the programming language of your choice. But I digress ...) A 'thread' in a board, like phpBB, is inherently flat, one-dimensional, restricting. There's always only exactly one subject being discussed, and it's harder to cherry-pick the aspects that you want to reply to. Especially if you want to reply to an aspect that has been brought up several posts ago: A says 1, 2, 3 B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4 C responds to 1, brings up 5 C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post) A responds to 5 A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post) C responds to 5 (from A's post) Trains of thought that ought to belong together are separated by this structure, and completely unrelated aspects are forced to stand together. And now imagine being a new person D and wanting to say something about aspect 3. That's why phpBB postings basically must make use of these @poster A forms, and even that doesn't help too much if the posting being replied to was 30 postings (read: 3 pages) ago. There's a reason that the 'classical' discussion systems (usenet and mailing-lists) model real threads. Oh, and yes, some boards offer proper threads as an optional view. But that's hard, because replying in a plain-board style loses information about the intent of the poster. It's easy to transform a forum view into a board view by just throwing the who responded to whom-information away, but it's impossible the other way round. And finally: Should the discussion really be one-dimensional and flat, well that's just a special case of a tree and no problem at all for real forums. -- Henryk Plötz Grüße aus Berlin ~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~ ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replying to digests Was: Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 48
Seems like we need the right software then. http://gbatemp.net , running IPB Portal v2 ( http://www.invisionpower.com/ ), does what you describe pretty reliably as far as I can tell. Don't know if any other board software has that functionality. I find the hostality towards forums here pretty astounding... Forums should not replace the mailing list but complement it. They would take some load off the mailing list. If the list grows any bigger, I will have to cancel my subscription, because I can't read through all this stuff anymore. The great thing about forums is that they designed for selective reading. You only read what interests you. It doesn't push all the crap to your inbox, you go and get what you need. Ortwin On 7/20/07, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 05:44:29PM -0400, Jon Radel wrote: [Entire digest that has nothing at all to do with the above that both you sent out again removed.] Spam the whole mailing list? Ah, at least you're forthright and know yourself well... Ever occur to you two forum fans that the mailing list would work better if you used it right? Little matters such as: * If you're starting a new discussion thread, don't reply to an existing e-mail; it throws off the people who use thread-aware MUAs. * If you're replying to something in a digest cut out all the stuff you're not replying to and fix up the subject line. * TRIM! * TRIM SOME MORE! * If you're sending a Me Too reply, TRIM YET SOME MORE! (See Mathew Davis's follow up for a beautiful example of trimming. :-) I agree. My main problem with a forum is that all the ones I've have serious deficiencies, the biggest one being that it's really easy to lose new messages if you don't dedicate a block of time to reading all new messages (Sometimes in just one forum, sometimes site-wide). I have yet to see a forum software that doesn't mark them all read if you have an emergency in the middle and have to come back later. For some people that's fine, but I prefer that my e-mail box stores a flag in each message and lets me read on my own time. As for the rest, I concur. Good netiquette goes a long way. Too bad it's a dying art. -KW ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?
Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling generous. I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;) Ortwin Regel ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45
Seconded! Please open a forum.openmoko.org ! I'd love to post some spontaneous ideas, discuss stuff, ask and answer small questions etc. but I often don't want to spam the whole mailing list with it. Ortwin On 7/19/07, Ryan Lozier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there an openmoko forum? I am really sick of reading this mailing list for the last year to find subjects im interested in. If there is one, please someone point me to it, and im not talking about the wiki. I mean, where would someone go if they had a question about a particular function of the phone or one of the softwares? This mailinglist? If there is no forum yet, we need one. ryan. On 7/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send community mailing list submissions to community@lists.openmoko.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of community digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Daniel Robinson) 2. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Peter Trapp) 3. Re: projects of interest? (Shakthi Kannan) 4. Operator Acceptance Testing (Shakthi Kannan) 5. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Ian Stirling) 6. Re: Possible App - Security (Christian St?ble) 7. Re: Possible App - Security (Henryk Pl?tz) 8. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Rodolphe Ortalo) -- Forwarded message -- From: Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: community@lists.openmoko.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:15:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Shipping, Billing, etc I had some concerns about this also. There has been very little info coming out from OpenMoko about the number of units of each type that have been ordered by developers and how many are available. Moreover, there hasn't been any information about where we are in the queue. All that has been said is that you get one email, then you get another email, then you get your dev unit. Do they expect me to keep hitting the refresh button like some blue-haired lady playing the nickel slots? On 7/19/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Benjamin Flanagin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : The limited number of neo's have got me worried that I might not be in the first batch. Have anyone been charged for the device yet? I'm ready to learn the ways of Openmoko Ninjitsu. One person has confirmed on the list that their order has been processed. There's a few factors, first there's two colours. Secondly there's two kits, the phone only and the phone + dev board kits. Maybe the white and orange versions will be in more supply? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Forwarded message -- From: Peter Trapp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:39:42 +0200 Subject: Re: Shipping, Billing, etc I'm not concerned about the number of units. It's more about the delivery date. On http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ: Are there enough phones for the number of orders? Will FIC produce another GTA01 batch if needed? Of course. Please note that there is a lead time of four to six weeks. I don't want to wait another 6 weeks (~ End of August) to buy GTA02 2 month later... Daniel Robinson wrote: I had some concerns about this also. There has been very little info coming out from OpenMoko about the number of units of each type that have been ordered by developers and how many are available. Moreover, there hasn't been any information about where we are in the queue. All that has been said is that you get one email, then you get another email, then you get your dev unit. Do they expect me to keep hitting the refresh button like some blue-haired lady playing the nickel slots? On 7/19/07, *Giles Jones* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Benjamin Flanagin [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote : The limited number of neo's have got me worried that I might not be in the first batch. Have anyone been charged for the device yet? I'm ready to learn the ways of Openmoko Ninjitsu. One person has confirmed on the list that their order has been processed. There's a few factors, first there's two colours. Secondly there's two kits, the phone only and the phone + dev board kits. Maybe the white and orange versions will be in more supply? --- G O Jones ___ OpenMoko community mailing list
Re: Support for Left handers
Shouldn't the spinner thing replace scrollbars, though? What else would it be for? On 7/14/07, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Adding left hand support shouldn't be too hard. We would just add a config option that is read by the ui library and then everyone that uses the standard ui library would automatically have a left handed application. So the main question is what all do you want moved(I am right handed)? The scroll bar is the obvious one, would you like the spinner thing and the button on the bottom switch as well. (seems like that would be the best way to keep the scroll seperate). Also what about the top and bottom status bars and such. I think someone should edit some of the screen shots to how they would like a lefty screen to look and post it somewhere in the wiki for discussion. On 7/14/07, Edwin Lock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am left-handed too. And I noticed on my nokia 770 a lot of interaction is needed on the right side, not only the scrollbar but also the exit button etc. Maybe there would be a way to just turn the window around, left side to the right, and vice versa? Should be a pretty basic thing to implement, in the framework? Would be very great because that may also be another marketing point, openmoko being adjusted to left-handers :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Support for Left handers
All finger buttons should be easily usable with a stylus. We are not the iPhone. On 7/14/07, Clare Johnstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have noticed some suggestions for managing the touchscreen which would be difficult for people lacking part of an important finger. Arthriticky tendencies in those remaining wont help either sigh Hoping for easy stylus management... clare On 7/14/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I'm new here, I have an OpenMoko on order and hope to do some development. I'll contribute ideas and bug reports at the least. I'm not sure I've ever used a touch screen mobile device that caters for left handed people. On the whole there aren't many issues with using devices left handed, so adding the support is easy. The main problem is scrollbars, when they're on the right dragging the scrollbar left handed results in your hand covering the screen so you can't see what you are doing. So having the option of scrollbars on the left would be useful. Ideally if you implement such features in the interface and not per application then it will all be transparent and less work will need to be done. Comments? Giles. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
