Re: [OT] combined forum and mailinglist (Re: Why not use forum?)

2008-06-13 Thread Ortwin Regel
We also came upon this idea a year ago. There are a few problems with
it. Mail gets sent once. The advantage of a forum is that you can
edit, merge, move and delete things.

Ortwin

On 6/13/08, Arnout Engelen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 02:48:27PM -0400, Kevin Dean wrote:
 Some people REALLY like mailing lists and some people REALLY like
 fora and never the twain shall meet. :P

 Personally, I don't believe this: to me, it sounds entirely feasible to
 create a 'discussion thread respository' which can be accessed with a
 web forum interface, a mailinglist interface or an NNTP client. I fail
 to see the fundamental difference.

 (of course, there's already gatewaying software like GMANE, some forums
 already have quite extensive mail features and some mailinglist
 softwares have added some interactivity to their 'archive'. I don't feel
 I've seen it 'done right' yet, though, with a central 'message
 repository' and several interfaces which are all 'first class citizens'.

 As a hobby project, I started implementing this. I'm currently thinking
 of a Java web app with a Hibernate database (postgres/mysql), and
 Subethamail serves as an inspiration. This is *way* pre-alpha, but if
 anyone would like to cooperate, drop me a note :).


 Arnout

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Re: Dual SIM?

2008-06-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
No, because you don't have access to everything in a sim card and thus
can't copy it.

Ortwin

On 6/12/08, Bumbl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 would it, in theory, be possible to emulate a 2nd sim-card which was
 inserted and saved on the flash memory before
 and switch between it and the inserted one?

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Re: Why not use forum?

2008-06-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php
Haven't been there in a while, though. It seems like those weird
hardcore Linux people simply prefer mailing lists... _

Ortwin

On 6/12/08, Leonti Bielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi!
 I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community?
 It's much  better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the
 topics you want and etc.
 The main
 Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable
 and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum?
 Can anyone explain to me why we can't install

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Re: Why not use forum?

2008-06-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
Pah, mailing lists are for old people. :P

On 6/12/08, Esben Stien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Leonti Bielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community?

 Because web forums are a pain. I'm over 250 mailing lists. Imaging the
 unbearable pain of having to go to all those web forums.

 Web forums are also extremely bad for a structured discussion. Web
 forums is a kids thing, basically;).

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 (was something about yummy CPU-GPU combos!)

2008-06-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
Who are these weird people that think window transparency on an
underpowered phone is a good idea?! What functionality does THAT give
us? I'd like to see some justification, if not from you then from
whoever is responsible for these ideas. I've lived without window
transparancy on all my PCs and handhelds up to now. I've seen it on my
brother's Vista PC and it was kind of funny for all of five minutes.

Ortwin

On 6/11/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:07:40 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 babbled:

 Am Di  10. Juni 2008 schrieb Carsten Haitzler:
  On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:16:06 +0800 Wilkinson, Alex
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
 
   0n Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 01:43:08PM +0800, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
  
   we are in a world where to get gfx support to run such high
 resolutions
   means we need to have closed drivers. and that is not
  
   Curious, why is that ?
 
  graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to do in
  terms of
  processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and trust me
  -
  everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it already)
  the

 No, I won't trust you here! I give a SH*T on soft shadows, even on my
 desktop. I switch off animation because I think it's annoying waste of
 time
 to see the same movie over and over. Alpha blending? Eeew! Useless.

 the day the design mockups for the ui i see stop having alpha transparency
 is
 the day i make this unimportant. until that day, your i don't care about
 this
 is the kind of opinion that i also am not interested in, because i am being
 shown ui designs hat REQUIRE it in the long run between windows, and in the
 short term is being faked with software within windows. i am just trying to
 make something possible that is being requested, and has been for a long
 time.
 not just say i don't care.

 Every single argument been mentioned multiple times here. Redundance.
 GTA03 has VGA - period!

 things can change - unlikely to be, but can. i have said it many times
 already.

 04 even better i'd bet on it. 05 virtually no-one even thinking of now,
 not
 to mention sourceability of parts when it's coming to real.

 And now I'm definitely stopping to feed this tro.. er, thread, which btw
 seems nobody is looking on the weird subject any more :-/
 ETX
 jOERG



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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
Your calculations may well be correct for the awful situation in the
USA. In other parts of the world, this is drastically different!
Please keep that in mind.

Ortwin

On 6/11/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Robert Taylor wrote:
 Just compare equal things.

 We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of equal.

 Hear me out:

 By my calculations below, a consumer buying an iPhone or a Freerunner,
 and using ATT for a voice/data plan, is going to spend about $2600 over
 two years no matter which phone they buy.

 Jorge's original posting in this thread said the following:
   the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will
   cost only $199 USD
 and
   now the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms
   of price.

 He was asking about straight out-of-pocket expense, not about subsidies.
 The end consumer is only going to see the price tag on the phone itself.

 The consumer will look at the iPhone and see a price of $199.
 Then they'll look at the Freerunner and see a price tag of $399.

 If they choose the $199 iPhone, they get locked into a two year
 contract, likely paying $100 per month for a voice/data plan. Over 24
 months, their total cost is going to be about $2600.

 If they choose the $399 Freerunner, they aren't locked into a minimum 2
 year contract, but they'll still need monthly service for the same
 24-month period. As I mentioned in a previous message, a plain
 voice/data plan with ATT is still going to cost $90 or more depending
 on the plan you pick. After 24 months, they've still paid $2600.

 That looks pretty 'equal' to me, and *I* believe the average consumer
 will feel the same way. If you don't agree with that, then you and I
 simply don't agree on it, but that still doesn't warrant calling
 someone's communication nonsense simply because you don't agree with them.

 The Freerunner would perhaps be cheaper if the consumer buys pay as you
 go minutes/data instead of a monthly plan.
 The Freerunner would *definitely* be cheaper if they buy the iPhone and
 start buying applications through iTunes for their phone.

 If you want to compare the total cost, compare the total cost of buying
 the new iphone UNLOCKED at retail cost (you can't) plus the data package
 and THEN we can talk.

 But the consumer isn't asked to pay the full unlocked price of the
 iPhone. Just because ATT subsidizes the phone by lessening the profit
 they make on the $100/month you'll pay them for using their service, the
 consumer isn't paying more for the phone since they'd still have to
 pay for the same voice/data service to use a Freerunner. It just means
 ATT makes more profit on the voice/data plan because they haven't
 subsidized anything.

 And you still haven't followed up with how you calculated the iPhone to
 cost 'twice' as much as the Freerunner.

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Re: Landscape keyboard

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
Interesting idea. There are some problems I see with it:
-The screen is very small so typing with two thumbs and trying to see
what you type gets difficult.
-When you type with two fingers, you happen to touch the screen with
both at once sometimes and with our resistive touchscreen that
registers a touch somewhere between the two touchpoints. Probably not
that much of a problem, though, because you get used to avoiding this.
I think it's something that should be tried, especially for a number
pad. For a full sized keyboard, the buttons get too small for thumbs.
I think the solution for full text input is one-finger-sliding.
(Quickwriting)

Ortwin

On 6/9/08, Steven Milburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Chris Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ...The keyboard itself has very minimal needs in terms of resolution, but
 it
 steals about a third of the screen in portrait mode, more in landscape
 -- 640x480 is probably a bare minimum.


 Chris's comment about the keyboard in landscape mode popped an image into my
 head.  Maybe it's been mentioned already, but I don't recall.  The keyboard
 for landscape mode could be split in two and have half on the right, and
 half on the left.  I think that may make it more suitable for thumb typing
 and take less area away.

 Someone will probably ask me to mock it up, but I'm a HW guy, so you really
 don't want me to try :)

 --Steve M


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GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
There has been all this fruitless talk about resolution. Well, what is
really limiting the Neo's screen right now is not resolution
(obviously), not speed (at least not on the GTA01, no idea how messed
up the 02 situation is. I'd guess it's faster most of the time.) but
size! If the GTA03 get's a new case design, please consider making the
screen twice as big! Then we are finally at a size were
two-thumb-typing starts to make sense and even people with bad eye
sight can benefit from the high resolution (although I'm not convinced
that second point is a positive one... _). The device wouldn't even
have to be bigger for this because so much space was wasted in the
original Neo design. The only handheld I have owned where the screen
could be called big enough was the Tapwave Zodiac (RIP). If you shave
off the gaming controls and make it a little thicker, you get a very
decent phone.
Also, I suggest concentrating more on the horizontal usage. For
example, bring the stereo speakers back but add one below and one
above the display so that they are left and right in landscape. You
can get a pretty good stereo effect at that distance.

Ortwin

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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
What the hell?! Seems like a lot of people STILL don't get it:
The iPhone does NOT cost 199$.
It's a marketing lie. The actual price is 199$ + a two year contract.
That makes it probably closer to 1000$. The Neo is still very very
cheap compared to that, especially considering how few Neo phones are
being made at the moment.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Jorge . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello everyone,

 I dont pretend to start a flamewar of FreeRunner vs iPhone. Everyone knows
 their advantages and disadvantages and at least for me the main reason to
 buy an openmoko is the freedom.

 But the new iPhone 3G price was announced, and the 8 Gigas version will cost
 only $199 USD and it automatically makes the OpenMoko phone expensive,
 because they have similar characteristics... this could discourage many
 possible buyers, for purely economical reasons.

 I dont know if the FreeRunner price can be changed at this moment, but now
 the FreeRunner is less competitive than the iPhone in terms of price.


 Best wishes



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Re: Free Runner price vs iphone 3G price

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
There are cheaper contracts if you don't get a phone with them in
Germany. No idea what the situation in the US is. (It's probably
godawful... :-/) Personally, I use a prepaid SIM card so I pay no
monthly fees at all. Much cheaper for me than any contract. So for me
the price advantage over an iPhone is very real.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, ian douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Robert Taylor wrote:
 You pay through the nose for it because you HAVETO sign up for a 2 year
 contract minimum.

 Granted, the Apple and ATT partnership greatly subsidizes the cost,
 because of the $960 ($40/mo unlimited data plan for 2 yrs) to $2400
 ($100/mo unlimited voice/data for 2 yrs) that you'd spend with ATT also
 helps cover the hidden cost of the hardware.

 And while I personally don't care much for the iPhone, you also have to
 sign up for a voice/data plan to use the Freerunner... You're still
 paying the $960-$2400 over two years, but there's not offset of cost of
 the hardware to the consumer. The monthly fees you pay that doesn't pay
 for the actual use of the cell network is 100% profit to ATT instead of
 going to Apple to help pay for the hardware.

 Same with TMobile, and I imagine any other carrier who offsets the price
 of their phones to lock you into a contract.

 Just my $0.02.

 What you're paying the extra money for, for the Freerunner, is the
 freedom of doing whatever you want with your phone. Sure, the iPhone has
 their SDK released, but all applications still have to go through Apple
 to operate on your phone -- I don't know if the SDK even allows you to
 build an application just for your own iPhone to test it. Also, their
 mobile OS is closed source -- you have no access to hack or tweak it to
 do *exactly* what you want it to. You can't change the applications that
 come with the phone, you can't do a lot of things. Sure, they have lots
 of eye candy and some solid-looking applications, but once we as a
 community port applications to the Freerunner hardware to run on
 OpenMoko, we'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the iPhone software.

 That, to me, is worth the extra purchase price.

 -id

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Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
For the record: I was talking about the gaming controls of my Tapwave
Zodiac. I realize that this was probably not all that clear from the
context and apologize.

I think branching into multiple devices starts making sense with the
switch to a new SoC. As it is, it looks like GTA03 is supposed to be
the Neo camera edition. I can't think of too much other popular uses
that should be realized with the current configuration. Maybe a keypad
would be popular (though I personally hate it) but that would either
require relatively complex mechanics (and maybe patent issues) or it
would be awful...

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Roland Häder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the market
 asks for this:

 - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is
 mentioning as subject for removal.

 - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the
 gameing
 controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the
 software
 shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires the
 gaming controls.

 Any further ideas? :)

 Roland

 On Tuesday, 10. June 2008, Ortwin Regel wrote:
 There has been all this fruitless talk about resolution. Well, what is
 really limiting the Neo's screen right now is not resolution
 (obviously), not speed (at least not on the GTA01, no idea how messed
 up the 02 situation is. I'd guess it's faster most of the time.) but
 size! If the GTA03 get's a new case design, please consider making the
 screen twice as big! Then we are finally at a size were
 two-thumb-typing starts to make sense and even people with bad eye
 sight can benefit from the high resolution (although I'm not convinced
 that second point is a positive one... _). The device wouldn't even
 have to be bigger for this because so much space was wasted in the
 original Neo design. The only handheld I have owned where the screen
 could be called big enough was the Tapwave Zodiac (RIP). If you shave
 off the gaming controls and make it a little thicker, you get a very
 decent phone.
 Also, I suggest concentrating more on the horizontal usage. For
 example, bring the stereo speakers back but add one below and one
 above the display so that they are left and right in landscape. You
 can get a pretty good stereo effect at that distance.

 Ortwin

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Re: QVGA V/s VGA for GTA03 - product management, features assumptions

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well said.

Ortwin

On 6/10/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 9 Jun 2008, at 01:56, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 ... i am asked by product management to do
 things that are just not possible in vga (to do sanely/fast).
 ... in the end if product management want X they get X. and
 if for X to happen we go QVGA, then so be it. you guys lose. i need
 a very very
 very strong argument against going to qvga - and that means product
 management
 need to drop a feature.


 On 10 Jun 2008, at 11:55, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 ... graphics is the most intensive thing your device is likely to
 do in terms of
 processing. if you want soft drop shadows, alpha blending (and
 trust me -
 everyone is drooling for it out there - the iphone is doing it
 already) the
 sheer memory bandwidth and cycles needed to do that stuff at a
 smooth framerate
 is astounding. sure - if your life is plain with still images/
 content and
 everything is plain solid rectangles, you don't. but i am being
 shown designs
 wanted that REQUIRE compositing - REQUIRE alpha blending and all
 that snazz.
 this is coming to me and i need a way to accommodate it in the long
 run
 ... cpu alone can't do it all - unless you really cut down the
 workload. that means too
 bad - no alpha ...


 On 6 Jun 2008, at 08:45, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
 ... if we want to play the my specs are better than your specs
 game right now, we will lose.
 ... if all you measure a device on is dpi and pixel
 count, you are being silly. how it looks matters even more. dpi
 helps there,
 but so does compositing, translucency, smooth animation etc. in
 fact these
 probably have a much greater buy me effect. by far more. i'll put
 money on
 that bet actually (this is just speaking from having done eyecandy
 for over a
 decade - on linux, and having seen what it can do to attract
 people). to make
 things like compositing fast, smooth and nice, you must lower
 resolution to do
 it, or increase graphics power grunt. so given that graphicws grunt
 is not
 changing, cpu is not, the only 2 things that can change are screen
 resolution
 or the eyecandy has to remain toned down. so does vga buy you
 more sales for
 the average joe than a sexy bit of eyecandy at qvga? i'm leaning to
 qvga +
 eyecandy myself.


 Reading these posts of the last few days it has just occurred to me
 that it's not Carsten we should be beating up on here.
 Who the heck asked for translucency and flashy animations?

 Management seem to be asking for this alpha bleeding rubbish, and
 it seems to me that we users need to be telling management that we
 don't care a heck for it.

 Sure, I know the iPhone does this now, but that doesn't mean Openmoko
 has to do it. Do we really want Openmoko to be just another iPhone
 clone? I know we see a fair number of posts on here about the iPhone,
 but surely that's just a result of the current buzz - is UI animation
 really a *necessity* in the long-term (or medium-term) future of the
 mobile phone market?

 DISCLAIMER: I haven't used an iPhone, and I'm not terribly interested
 in it. I do use a Mac as my main desktop, but that's not for the
 animation, it's because I want something that just works when I sit
 down at my computer. All us Mac fans found Expose to be a *massive*
 UI improvement when it was released, but that's because virtual
 desktops have always been rubbish on a Mac - with so many windows on
 a single desktop *some* way of finding the bottom-most one was
 required. The other day I was talking to a Linux developer who turned
 off compiz on his desktop because it slowed down his productivity -
 you simply don't need Expose if you have virtual desktops (which
 admittedly are not suitable for my granny).

 It seems to me that, whilst the iPhone's animation may wow people,
 what really distinguishes the iPhone is the same attention to UI
 simplicity that Apple have always brought to their products. It does
 a FEW things amazingly well, and that's where it separates itself
 from the majority of phones on the market, none of which *quite* suit
 the mass-market of users. Most users don't want to understand the
 filesystem on their mobile phone, so Apple do away with it; Apple
 have made it spectacularly easy (so much so that one must include in
 the discussion the word intuitive) to email a photo taken on the
 camera or grabbed from a webpage, but they make it impossible to
 email attachments under many other circumstances. The majority of
 users don't want to copy  paste text on their mobile phones, so
 Apple just got rid of it - other manufacturers muddy up the phones
 they aim at girls and little old ladies (excuse me) by including the
 ability to copy  paste; Apple have realised that only a minority of
 business-phone users want or need that.

 The Neo  Freerunner have both been smartphones, and that's surely
 the interest that draws Linux users to this list. We want to be able
 to shell into our unix servers, 

Re: GTA - Two models? Was: GTA03: New case? Bigger screen!

2008-06-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
I wonder: Might it be useful/possible to add a connector for Bug
modules to a future Openmoko phone?

On 6/10/08, Robert Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Roland Häder wrote:
 My suggestion here is that OpenMoko may design another phone - if the
 market
 asks for this:

 - An OpenMoko for younger people who need the gaming controls Ortwin is
 mentioning as subject for removal.

 - Another OpenMoko for professionals/business/older people without the
 gameing
 controls but bigger screen. Maybe there is one available? Surely the
 software
 shipped with this OpenMoko doesn't need include software which requires
 the
 gaming controls.

 Any further ideas? :)

 Roland


 Yes.  I propose a modular approach.  1 phone many external similar to
 this idea: http://www.icontrolpad.com/

 Additionally, there is a certain cool factor to having a single unit but
 many docking stations if done right, for example:

 Quick preview:  http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3871478989.html

 Their overbearing website:  http://www.buglabs.net/products

 Buglabs is doing something really cool, but you gotta code in java and
 it doesn't fit into a pocket (well it does fit in a really big pocket).

 It's pretty clear Mokos core group of users are very demanding, and
 something like that would allow for everyone to be happy.

 However, why I really think this could be a really great approach for
 the moko is the 'Hey Cool!' factor.

 Can you picture the conversation when you meet up with  a buddy hey
 whats that on your moko? oh it's my new gamepod.  COL!  can i try it
 on my moko?  sure  ... *CLICK*  ... here you go.   COOL!

 It also reduces the dev costs for moko, it allows it to remain a
 smartphone and not move from that niche, reduces the number of formats
 that people will be demanding the moko be made in and will start to
 establish a hardware addon ecosystem beyond what is already being developed.

 What the moko manufacturers then can pull is a NIKE.  Instead of relying
 purely on sales of the moko, they can turn them selves into an RD and
 marketing company and not only produce their own hardware if they want
 to, but also licence officially supported modules and addons to control
 quality and get a cut of each sale.

 Also when usb3 comes along you can offload all sorts of stuff to that,
 such as gfx co-porcessing if you want so all of a sudden you can get ati
 into the picture with their completely documented processors and really
 start something interesting.


 Just some brianstorming ...

 Rob

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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

2008-06-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
a realistic possibility!

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Breakable [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I would propose to take a look at this before any case design:
 http://www.icontrolpad.com/
 Basically its a dock for IPhone.
 So the idea is to allow the case to be integrated with other electronics.
 This allows for many cool applications, where Neo can be a brain of some
 system, that has
 additional controls, more power, external interfaces, body of a robot... etc
 ;)

 Regards,
 Breakable


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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

2008-06-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
the buttons to the phone.

On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
 Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
 made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
 selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
 this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
 a realistic possibility!

   Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely available,
 he
 wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
 potentially make it a *proper* case :)

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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

2008-06-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
The number I heard was a first run of 3000... ;) (and 100 prototype
devices before that)

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Gabriel Ambuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sunday 08 June 2008 14:23:29 Carsten Haitzler wrote:
 500k+ are the order sizes. often in multi-millions. that is what they
 start dealing with. it's like going to cost-co who sell beer by the case
 and going but we only want 1 bottle! (sorry - buy the case, or go
 somewhere else). :)

 So there are half a million Pandora consoles in the making right now?



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Re: Is case design changing for GTA03?

2008-06-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well, with Bluetooth it would have to have it's own power source (or
be connected to one) so USB sounds most reasonable. It might even
contain an USB hub and expose a number of full size USB ports, maybe
including Y-cable functionality for charging while being host.

Ortwin

On 6/8/08, Ulrik Rasmusen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Through the USB interface maybe? Or maybe via bluetooth, then there
 would be no need to worry about a dangling usb cable.

 On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 07:31:13PM +0200, Ortwin Regel wrote:
 lol, I almost forgot that... The only open question is how to connect
 the buttons to the phone.

 On 6/8/08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Sunday 08 June 2008 Ortwin Regel wrote:
  Wow, that's quite awesome! I read around a little and it seems to be
  made by CraigX who is also behind the Pandora and is interested in
  selling Openmoko phones in the UK. So getting him to make a variant of
  this design for future (or present?) Openmoko phones might actually be
  a realistic possibility!
 
Well, seeing as though the schematics for the case are freely
  available,
  he
  wouldn't even need to make it hook onto the existing case, he could
  potentially make it a *proper* case :)
 
  --
  ..Dan // Leinir..
  http://www.leinir.dk/
 
Co-
  existence
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  existence
 
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Re: resolution preferences??

2008-06-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 6/6/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
convince me vga is incredibly more useful than qvga. convince me
 you
 all have amazing eyesight! :) i am doing this because i am trying to listen
 to
 the community and if given a choice - choose the right way based on what you
 guys think, but PLEASE, be practical, and honest. be honest with yourselves.
 this is not a my screen is higher dpi than your screen competition. it's
 about making a nice and usable device you want.

 if you ask for vga, but you really can't see the difference between qvga and
 vga, you're not being honest. you're just playing the spec numbers game.

I have good eye sight and I believe many other people do, too. You
don't need very good eye sight to see the difference but I guess you
need it to fully make use of the high resolution.

What do we not need VGA for?
-Videos. The phone won't do VGA videos anyway and resolution isn't
that important when watching videos. (See the popularity of
YouTube...)
-Finger applications. Displaying huge buttons in high resolution is
beautiful but not useful.

What do we need VGA for?
-Ebook reading. I read Cory Doctorow's Someone Comes to Town, Someone
Leaves Town in very tiny font on my Neo. It was a great experience.
But even fonts that are a little bigger still profit a lot from the
high resolution.
-Web browsing. There are a lot of tricks to display web pages at low
resolutions. I haven't seen anything that works well, though. VGA is
the smallest resolution to do web browsing well.
-Other things that use text (word processor, speadsheet, calendar,
...) and stylus applications in general.
-Games. Not necessarily 3D games but things like OTTD. RTS on a
handheld becomes usable at 480*320 and fun at 640*480. Since we don't
have buttons, those are the games that are possible on current Neos.
-Maps. The tiny map portions you can fit into 320*240 aren't really useful...
-Comics. Again, 640*480 is the smalles resolution most comic pages
become readable at.
-Pictures. They can be displayed at QVGA but only at VGA they look
perfect, because it's hard to see the individual pixels. Not being
able to see the individual pixels is pretty much the point of the high
resolution!
-The text console. The terminal app is bad enough with the huge font
it is set to at the moment. Way back it had a very tiny font that
worked great. Can you imagine it at 320*240? I can't.

What future OpenMoko devices need is a bigger screen area. Making the
problem worse by decreasing the resolution to a quarter is not a good
idea. 480*320 is the lowest resolution I could live with but I'd much
rather have 800*480. When I get my Pandora, that's what I'll get used
to.

Ortwin

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Re: Yummy new CPU/GPU combo

2008-06-06 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 6/5/08, Ken Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:

 quick question - would you prefer a qvga lcd (save a bit of cost)
 since we'e going to need to software-drive all graphics - the fewer
 pixels you have to fill, the better for speed. i'm really tossing up if
 the speed of qvga is worth the loss of resolution. i'm just not sure.

 Please, please, please, please, please don't drop to a QVGA LCD on
 future OM phones.   The beautiful full VGA screens on the neo and
 Freerunner are just about the only piece of hardware they have which
 is better than what you find on a typical smart phone.

 Ken Young


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I couldn't stand going back on resolution after having seen this
screen. 640*480 is beautiful. Decreasing the resolution to increase
speed is not worth it.

Ortwin

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Re: on screen keyboard enhaced

2008-05-30 Thread Ortwin Regel
Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it.
I guess it needs to be prototyped.

Ortwin

On 5/29/08, George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200
 christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which
 enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg

 What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko?

 I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try
 to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner
 port it to OpenMoko.


 How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks
 like a good idea.

 solar.george

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Re: on screen keyboard enhaced

2008-05-30 Thread Ortwin Regel
On the actual screen that keyboard is very small. Even if you use a
stylus, you need to keep a steady hand. I don't think sliding over
fields that small would be comfortable or fast. It would be unusable
on a bus/train.

Ortwin

On 5/30/08, christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ortwin Regel wrote:
 Yeah, somewhat, but I think our screen might be a little small for it.
 I guess it needs to be prototyped.

 Ortwin


 http://sudharsh.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/screenshot-1.png

 Here is a screenshot of one of onscreen keyboard. And I don't think its
 so small.

 And it could be bigger if special characters (,$,€, {,} etc.) were
 hiden. Maybe a gesture that startes at part of the screen gets you to
 special characters.

 I will try this in this weekend. Just mockup app. And than actual porting.

 On 5/29/08, George Brooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Thu, 29 May 2008 22:42:41 +0200
 christooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 One of selected projects in google android is Writing pad which
 enables writing one word per stroke with on screen keyboard

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBOyGp25sSg

 What do you think. Could this be useful on OpenMoko?

 I think its really inovative usage of on screen keyboard. I could try
 to implement it on desktop machine and than when I get Freerunner
 port it to OpenMoko.


 How about this (http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html) looks
 like a good idea.

 solar.george

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Re: early experince Freerunners w/ ASU load, vs. thousnads of Freeruners

2008-05-29 Thread Ortwin Regel
As far as I can tell everything in the article was already mentioned
on the list. Nothing new to comment on...

Ortwin

On 5/29/08, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 steve wrote:
 Yes mass pro will start soon. There is another batch of a few hundred
 or so phones being built tomorrow.
 I'll  Know more after tomorrows build.

 Thanks for the news Steve!
 I'm waiting for a better ones tomorrow... :P

 In this Linuxtag report [1] (google translated here [2]) there are not
 so good news about production :/
 Can you share with us something more Steve?

 Bye

 [1] http://tinyurl.com/6rs6j2
 [2] http://tinyurl.com/643y64

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Re: Barometric altimeter on 'future' Freerunner ?

2008-05-20 Thread Ortwin Regel
I can see exotic applications for this but certainly not enough to put
it into the phone. If you need it, add it via USB host, that's what
we've got it for. (Same is true for the railgun. ;) )

Ortwin

On 5/18/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 17 May 2008, at 22:17, Philippe Guillebert wrote:
 Matthias Schulze wrote:
 I am wondering about applications possible with the Freerunner
 (connected via usb) or later phone models, if a barometric altimeter
 would be included.

 Hi,

 Err, doesn't GPS give us a pretty accurate altitude already ?

 lol.

 No.

 Event if the precision is something like +/- 20 meters, I believe
 it's got a better accuracy than a barometric altimeter that you've
 got to calibrate to the meteorological conditions all the time.

 GPS altitude precision is more like +/- 200 metres. Even cheap
 electronic altimeters are accurate to a few feet. That they need
 daily calibration makes them only of use to people who actually
 _need_ to know their height - an altimeter built into a digital
 watch, for instance, is usually no more than a gimmick, but a hang-
 glider pilot can simply hold down the zero button on his £100
 altimeter for 3 seconds and then knows his height accurately for the
 duration of the day's flying.

 Stroller.

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Re: Accellerometer spin

2008-05-20 Thread Ortwin Regel
The problem is the same as with linear acceleration: You get an
increasing deviation over time.

Ortwin

On 5/18/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Instead of adding a compass to the device to be able to read spin about the
 gravitational axis, would it not be easier to offset one of the
 accellerometers from the centre of the device?

 That way, the roll is uneffected and the yaw and pitch can be calculated by
 accounting for the known offset in the equ.

 Just a thought
 Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless handheld

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Re: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API

2008-05-14 Thread Ortwin Regel
Afaik yes

On 5/14/08, Vinc Duran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Ron,
 Is the Dash in the blog the same as the Dash Express on the dash.net site?
 Vinc

 On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 11:14 PM, Ron K. Jeffries [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 Dash GPS  personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API

 It's sorta funny, but nobody here says a word about Dash,
 the Freerunner's red-haired step-sister device, OEM'd
 from FIC as I understand things.

 Latest Dash news:
 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/13/dash-opens-up-apis-for-its-gps-device-to-outside-developers/



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Re: Questions about Freerunner: Phone Usability, Battery Life, Shipping Date

2008-05-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
That was usually called HXD8 IIRC. I wonder about GTA03, too...

Ortwin

On 5/11/08, JW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 or gta03 was the board for that gps (DASH) thing

 hence next phone is gta04

 JW


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Re: mobile gps gaming

2008-04-30 Thread Ortwin Regel
We'd need a compass for a working 3D world window. Else the phone
can't be certain (though it could estimate) where it is facing.

I am very interested in GPS games. A PacMan-like game that
automatically generates a level based on the surrounding Open
Streetmap data would be awesome. :) A Snake game would also be great.
Lots of possibilities probably.

Ortwin

On 4/30/08, Crane, Matthew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yea, I'm excited too.  I was thinking it would be possible to use the
 accelerometer + GPS to make the phone act like a window into the game
 world.  Where you can look around in 3d.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
 Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:53 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: mobile gps gaming


 Robin Paulson wrote:
  i just listened to an interesting piece on the bbc about gps gaming on
  mobile phones:


 There was a group of people in some major American city a year or so ago

 that played a city-wide game of PacMan using GPS-enabled phones...
 teammates would lead the 'ghost' characters to where the PacMan
 character was, and so on. Got a fair bit of press.

 I'm excited at what the Freerunner will be capable of in this regard, as

 it would be FAR easier to write/play GPS games with an open phone.

 -id

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Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC)

2008-04-27 Thread Ortwin Regel
What makes you think the Wii accellerometers are inaccurate? They feel
pretty precise as far as I can tell...

Ortwin

On 4/27/08, David Murrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Wait a minute...

 /me backs up the metaphorical truck...

 Just _how_ accurate are these accelerometers?

 Are we talking the sorta half second delay with exagerated drunk movements
 required to operate the nintendo wii, or precise movements that can catch my
 cat doing the sideways wiggle in realtime before she jumps at something if I
 was to strap it to her?
 (Yes, I realise that attaching a phone to a cat is like trying to pin the
 tail on a live donkey, you get one chance, and then its all pain, but I
 digress)

 TTFN,
 David

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming Richter
 Mikkelsen
 Sent: Sunday, 27 April 2008 5:56 a.m.
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: OpenMoko Remote Controller (SoC)

 On 4/26/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It would be nice if we can choose between input.
  Sometimes it is nice to use the touchscreen as a mice, while other
  times I would prefer the accelerometers (e.g.
  if you want to use the display to something else at the same time).

 ... and if you use the accelerometers, you can actually move the device just
 like if it was a mice:) That would be very cool. Tilting is also an
 alternative and should be implemented before this regular mice behavor
 thing, since it is a lot more easy to code.

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Re: Do we REALLY need a phone?

2008-04-21 Thread Ortwin Regel
The problem with small handheld devices is that most of the time it's
cheaper to put everything into the device than to create variants.
Modularity causes problems with design and space and is also
expensive.
I also still need a GSM modem and will for a few years. Sure, I'd like
to use WLAN, Bluetooth and UMTS whenever possible but these networks
don't cover the whole country / most of the planet. When there is no
other network, I need GSM to get onto the internet, even if it's slow.

Ortwin

On 4/20/08, Stefano Cavallari [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 (sorry for the length of this message)
 I was thinking today about how the phone system is quite dead without no one
 noticing it. We are paying unreasonable tariffs for just sending data which
 happens to be voice. The whole motivation behind having a number is no
 longer
 existent as with portability and roaming you don't do switching anymore.
 So you don't want to access the telephone network, you want to access the
 Internet, then do whatever you want from there.
 Yes in the meantime you may still want to do normal calls but the focus is
 in
 doing VoIP and IM.
 Because of this I think the next moko should be designed around this and be
 mainly a handheld. With no included GSM module so you can focus in the
 interesting part of the product and don't bet on the next mainstream
 communication technology (mobile wimax? UMTS? EDGE? CDMA something?) and
 just
 provide the one you are sure they will be supported for much time (wifi,
 bluetooth).
 Then you just provide some module to access the chosen network, like a SDIO
 card (probably with a big external part like most wifi ones).
 I was thinking of a beast like a bluetooth UMTS dongle. There are already
 USB
 UMTS dongle right now which emulates a serial port. So it's a no brainer to
 take an existing design, strip the usb-serial chip and put a
 bluetooth-serial
 chip and a battery (the usual nokia one which most GPS and the Neo uses).
 This gives the advantage of not having a powerful antenna attached to the
 ear
 (when talking) or anyway near you (when messaging, browsing).
 You can put it near a window and get better signal, and so on.
 Of course some may find the SDIO more appealing or not. Anyway if you keep
 this component separated you let the user choose whether they really need
 GSM, you can develop the hardware WAY faster and most important, you don't
 have to wait for the comm. modules to be functional to start selling, and if
 a comm. module happens to be a total market/design/whatever failure you
 still
 have the main product (the handheld) selling well.

 Just my (long) 2 ¢
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Re: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner

2008-04-21 Thread Ortwin Regel
Yes, I'm pretty sure there will only be the pure black color scheme.

On 4/21/08, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yeah, they're pretty big, although the camera seems to be pretty bad.

 Btw I was under the impression that the freerunner case was black with
 grey, like the 1973 on this picture:
 http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/boxNextTo1973.jpg . Is the
 shipped version going to be all black?

 Ivo

 On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:53 PM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  too small? They don't fit on my 20 iMac (running linux btw). What kind of
  monitor do you have? :O
 
   I cannot belive my eyes! I'm just too happy for watching this!
 
   Thanks Michel Shiloh
 
   Cheers!
 
   Kosa
 
   - Un mundo mejor es posible -
 
 
 
   Richard Reichenbacher escribió:
 
 
 
   The pictures are too small.  Can you make post up bigger ones?
  
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
 Shiloh
   Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:38 PM
   To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
   Subject: photographs of box and POSSIBLE contents of Neo Freerunner
  
   Remember, Steve is still deciding what to include in the box. These are
  just a bunch of stuff that fit, from which he is making decisions:
  
   http://quickstart.openmoko.org/photographs/
  
   If someone with more skills than me at web page design would like to
 turn
  this into a nice web page with thumbnails etc. I would welcome the
  assistance. I have to get back to upgrading GTA01 firmware, testing GTA02
  samples, and shipping all of these items. You don't need my permission -
  download these photographs, they are direct copies of my originals, and
  create what you want.
  
   Michael
  
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Re: Charging Neo Freerunner via USB port

2008-04-19 Thread Ortwin Regel
That's also something I'd like to know as my Minty Boost supposedly
does up to ~250 mA and I'd like to use that much if possible.
The Neo 1973 doesn't have the necessary hardware to detect chargers,
though, or does it?

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Hans L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Great summary Michael, and a good discussion.  It would be nice to see
 the ability to support other fast chargers in the future.  That is one
 of my pet peeves about cell phones is that it seems every single
 company(and often even every model made by that company) has it's own
 specific charger which is incompatible with anything else.

 Michael Shiloh wrote:
   In summary, the Neo can charge at 3 different rates: 100mA, 500mA, and
 1A.

 Just to be absolutely clear, are these 3 rates hardwired into the
 circuitry?  Or might it be possible in the future to support(through
 only software changes) some charger that has for example a max rating
 of 750mA, and get the maximum output from it.
 The discussion up to this point seems to indicate that the best that
 could be done with this theoretical charger would be 500mA.  I suppose
 it doesn't make a huge difference, but something I'd like to know for
 sure.

 - Hans Loeblich

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Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes

2008-04-19 Thread Ortwin Regel
Sounds like an awesome idea! :D

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized the
 potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes.  What this
 is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the
 Freerunner.  From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect and
 measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1]  If the Freerunner's
 accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed
 ground,
 we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload
 accelerometer data to a database.  Many different devices running this could
 provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least fairly
 accurately), pinpoint an epicenter.  This data could become useful to
 researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster than
 almost any news network would provide.

 Thoughts?

 [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html

 --
 
 Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://onedollarlinux.com
 BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/

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Re: Freerunner and Earthquakes

2008-04-19 Thread Ortwin Regel
Yes, AFAIK GPS requires accurate time to function.

Ortwin

On 4/19/08, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sat April 19 2008 5:29:50 pm Richard Guest wrote:
  Yeah, it's an interesting idea.
  I read something similar on Evil Mad Scientist
  http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/seismometry2
 
  The detection/pinpointing part requires both accurate detection of shaking
  and timing - obviously the timing is critical for triangulation.
 
  I think the *cool* factor for something like this would be the ability to
  measure a persons actual physical experience of an earthquake. There are
  *lots* of existing seismometers that will do the *fixed* point detection a
  whole lot better, but none (that I know of) that will be (relatively)
  unobtrusive to the users daily life and still give an actual measurement
 of
  physical shaking intensity.
 
  You shouldn't have to wait that long for e/q info... In New Zealand the
  news media mostly regurgitate what we post on http://www.geonet.org.nz/
  There's near-realtime shaking info on the front page, and if there's
  actually an earthquake people can submit a Felt Report to tell us how
  they experienced it.
  It would be really cool to see how a personal accelerometer trace
  correlates to the fuzzy-logic of the felt report!
 
 
  End thoughts...
 
  --
  Rich
 
  On 20/04/2008, Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   After recently having a 5.2 earthquake here in the Midwest, I realized
   the potential in the Openmoko for detecting/pinpointing earthquakes.
   What this
   is mostly dependant on is the accuracy of the accelerometers in the
   Freerunner.  From what I've read, Macbooks' accelerometers and detect
 and
   measure earthquakes fairly accurately. [1]  If the Freerunner's
   accelerometers are precise enough and it could be attached to a fixed
   ground,
   we could use GPS to retreive an accurate location and record and upload
   accelerometer data to a database.  Many different devices running this
   could
   provide intensity levels at many different locations and (at least
 fairly
   accurately), pinpoint an epicenter.  This data could become useful to
   researchers and would provide information about an earthquake faster
 than
   almost any news network would provide.
  
   Thoughts?
  
   [1] http://www.suitable.com/tools/seismac.html
  
  
   --
   
   Brandon Kruger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://onedollarlinux.com
   BLOG - http://onedollarlinux.com/personal/
  
   Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
   See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
  
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 Wouldn't GPS provide an accurate time?  I thought GPS sends its own official
 time, like an atomic clock.  I could be wrong.  Anyone know more about this?

 --
 
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 http://onedollarlinux.com
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Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, GTA 03?

2008-04-15 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well, it would mean that the casing changes significantly. That means
lots of work and cost so it's not a trivial change. I don't think it's
worth doing this (or even reasonably possible in time) before the next
hardware revision.

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Subject: Re: Unofficial poll: Do you want 3G in the proposed successor, 
 GTA
 03?
   Date: Mon 14 Apr 08 08:55:41PM -0500

 Quoting Jae Stutzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

  I vote for current GTA02 features plus 3G and USB2.0!

 I warmly suggest that FIC produce a GTA02.2 - same hardware, but with
 a QWERTY keyboard... Form-factor similar to nokia e61. This should not
 require such a long and difficult development process.

 Carlo


 --
   * Se la Strada e la sua Virtu' non fossero state messe da parte,
 * K * Carlo E. Prelz - [EMAIL PROTECTED] che bisogno ci sarebbe
   *   di parlare tanto di amore e di rettitudine? (Chuang-Tzu)

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Ortwin Regel
I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a
1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to
be in black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime
green and pink but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants
that...

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)

 Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

 steve schrieb:
 | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
 | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most
 | are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
 | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | My daughter requests pink.
 |
 | Maybe the only one.
 |
 | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so
 | you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's
 content.
 |
 | Half jokingly,
 | Michael
 |
 | steve wrote:
 | Ok,
 |
 |   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
 | get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
 | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
 | innards and not the cosmetics.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
 | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | Robin Paulson wrote:
 | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 |  I also would like to have - may be separately:
 |  - Stylus
 | personally, i'd want:
 | *a modified charger (if one is made)
 | *a pouch
 | included, and that's it
 |
 | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have.
 | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm
 | sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh
 | well), but include *something*.
 |
 | -id
 |
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Re: Mini jack 2.5mm?

2008-04-15 Thread Ortwin Regel
Space reasons. I've been told that most phones use 2,5mm today for that reason.

On 4/15/08, Alexander Frøyseth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hei
 I just wonder why it is 2.5mm and not 3.5mm mini jack.
 After what I know 3.5mm is what is normaly used inn headsets

 Alexander Frøyseth

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Re: DHL has a package for me!

2008-04-15 Thread Ortwin Regel
Naja, wirklich korrekt wäre:
Ihren Ausweis, bitte!
;)

On 4/15/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, April 15, 2008 17:09, Kevin Dean wrote:
  Ihre Ausweis!
 
  Korrekt:

 Ihren Ausweis Bitte!


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Re: PVT Update.

2008-04-14 Thread Ortwin Regel
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
Still, poor Freerunners... :'(

On 4/14/08, Michele Renda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 One minute of silence for the dead freerunner, death to ensure a product
 free of defects :)

 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
 
The last of DVT testing is I think complete. These are destructive
  tests.
  Where we try to break the phone.
 


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Re: LCD protector

2008-04-13 Thread Ortwin Regel
A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for
the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has
the same case and screen dimensions):
http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247
They are a little too big but work well nonetheless. It's difficult to
attach them without bubbles, though. However, you get 18 of them so
you can practice a lot. I can't remember whether the instructions that
came with it were in German or in English... It amounts to slowly
attaching the protector millimeter for millimeter while all the time
rubbing out the bubbles. I've heard this works best in a wet
environment. Obviously there shouldn't be much dust around and you
should clean your screen properly.

Ortwin

On 4/12/08, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello,

 A friend of mine who owns an iPhone purchased an LCD protector.  It is a
 sheet of clear material cut to the dimensions of the LCD screen.  When
 affixed to the screen, it doesn't affect touch screen operation.
 However, it resists scratching and fingerprints can simply be wiped off.

 Is this something that will be needed on the Freerunner?  Or does the
 Freerunner come with a scratch resistant screen/coating?  If a protector
 is needed, will there be an option to purchase it?

 My friend told me that one needs to be careful when affixing the
 protector, or ``bubbles'' will result.  It would be great if
 instructions could be included with the protector on the best technique
 to affix it.

 Thanks.

 Ajit



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Re: LCD protector

2008-04-13 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well, maybe if you ask nicely he will ship to the US anyway.

On 4/13/08, Ajit Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A German ebay seller has some that are advertised as being made for
  the Neo 1973 (and should thus work fine on the Freerunner as it has
  the same case and screen dimensions):
 
 http://cgi.ebay.de/18x-Schutzfolie-Computer-Neo-1973-Tuch_W0QQitemZ290145736835QQihZ019QQcategoryZ38950QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

 Thanks.

 This eBay seller says:

 Versand nach: Deutschland

 which translates to ``ship to: Germany'' according to the online German
 - English dictionary.  I presume this means that the seller will not
 ship outside Germany.  I am in the U.S., so this won't work :( .

 Ajit

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Re: Smart LCD birght/dim...

2008-04-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
Exactly my thoughts: This sounds way too complicated to actually be
useful. I'd rather adjust my brightness manually.

On 4/12/08, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Marco Trevisan (Treviño)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Since Freerunner won't have an hardware light sensor to set its LCD
  brightness, I got some ideas about smartly changing the luminance of the
  GTA02 screen to save its battery (still with an unknown life time :/).
   Of course they aren't and never will be precise as an hardware sensor is,
  but it's the only thing we have:
 
   1) Setting the brightness following the hour of the day: also if the
 phone
  can't know if it's sunny or cloudy, neither if you're indoor or outdoor,
  it's clear that just knowing the hour of the day, the date and your
 latitude
  (to be set once via GPS) the phone can easily know when the sun will rise
  and set, and so it will be possible increasing or reducing the LCD
  brightness.
   Also if you're indoor, I guess that when the sun is gone you won't need
  so much luminance...
 
   2) Using personal profiles that follow your habits: you could define, for
  each hour of each week day the presumed luminance, using something like
 a
  calendar. I mean, if on working-days I generally stay indoor every day
 from
  8:30 to 13:00 and from 15:00 to the 19:00 I figure that on these intervals
 I
  don't need all the LCD power, so I'll set in my calendar that on such
  interval I'll be indoor...
   I guess that many of you would follow a routine durning the week, why
 don't
  educate your phone for it!?
 
   3) Setting the luminance following the weather. Of course I've no light
  sensors, neither a barometer :P, but if I've a working connection
 available
  I could use the weather data downloaded every few minutes (60, for
 example)
  from internet to change my screen brightness (of course merging these
  informations with points 1 and 2)
 
   What do you think about them?
   I do think that they are really simple to implement, and that also if
 they
  won't guarantee a perferct result, they could be a smart workaround.
 
   --
   Treviño's World - Life and Linux
   http://www.3v1n0.net/
 


 Or you could just... dim it after a few seconds and go blank after a
 minute like every other phone does. If we try to solve this by complex
 heuristics we're
 1) going to get it wrong
 2) going to end up wasting more battery in doing the computations than
 we save by them.


 -Nick

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Quikwriting

2008-04-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
Quikwriting is the best input method for finger input on a small
touchscreen like the Neo's that I have come across.
http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/demos/quikwriting.html
There have been positive comments towards it on the list before.
Does anyone have the time, motivation and ability to implement this on
Openmoko? It would be very useful for me. :)

Ortwin

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Re: accelerometer thought

2008-04-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
Good idea as long as it's easy to turn it off.

On 4/11/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Friday 11 April 2008 03:12:45 Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
  It occurred to me as I was thinking about use cases that a setting in
  which the phone would be on vibrate while vertical (as in clipped to
  my belt) and ring when horizontal (as in lying on a table) would suit
  my typical use about 99% of the time.

 Hehe, that's amazing. So simple and effective. Same here -- what do the
 others
 think?

 :M:

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Re: Wireless charger for Neo

2008-04-01 Thread Ortwin Regel
Why not simply use standard wireless USB chargers?

On 4/1/08, Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello!

 Some mobile phone vendors are now looking into wireless charging. A
 wireless charger technology is more user-friendly than the traditional
 wired phone chargers. However, users will only truly benefit from the
 interoperability between chargers for different phones if the vendors
 agree on a common protocol; otherwise, we'll have the same situation as we
 have now with wired chargers: every phone vendor makes their own charger
 incompatible with the others.

 In fact, an open protocol for transfer of electricity over IP has existed
 since 2002: RFC 3251 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3251.txt. After DVE
 (Discrete Voltage Encoding), the electric current can be quickly and
 securely transmitted to one or more devices over WiFi or Bluetooth in an
 MPLampS infrastructure. A consumer device can then decode the voltage and
 use it to recharge its battery.

 Will OpenMoko, with its openness, be the first to implement MPLampS?


 --
 Alexey Feldgendler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [ICQ: 115226275] http://feldgendler.livejournal.com

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Re: TomTom on Openmoko?

2008-03-27 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/27/08, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Thu, March 27, 2008 1:33 pm, Christ van Willegen wrote:

  Have you seen the progress that's been made in The Netherlands?
 
  i.e.:
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.375lon=5.24898zoom=17layers=B0FT
  (yes, there are houses on there...)

 It is very good. Presumably data from a Dutch publicly funded mapping
 agency has been uploaded into the OSM databases.

 By comparison if you zoom out an scroll south until you get to the border
 with Belgium, the situation is very different. Major towns are just dots
 on the map with perhaps the road thought the center but nothing else. The
 situation for France appears to be even worse. The motorway network
 appears to be complete, but much of the national trunk road network is
 missing, let alone most towns and local roads. If you attempted to use an
 OSM based satellite navigation system for a journey across France you
 would not get very far.

 What I am saying is that the OSM project looks promising and is a great
 idea, but without major contributions from big publicly funded databases
 it is only ever going to be a collection of small areas with good detail
 separated by vast areas where just major roads are shown. Unlike a
 software project like Linux the contributions from a few hundread talented
 developers will never be enough. Unless a public body pays for it, The
 only way for a particular town to get mapped is for an OSM enthusiast
 _in_that_town_ to spend a lot of their time recording routes along every
 street, and then editing it all together. I just don't think there will be
 enough enthusiasts do do that outside major university towns.

 --
 David Pottage

 Error compiling committee.c To many arguments to function.


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I disagree. At the moment, very few people have GPS equipped devices.
This will change rapidly in the future as GPS chips become the next
thing being put into every mobile phone. I am sure that Open Streetmap
will start to grow as fast as Wikipedia, then, and soon be unbeatable
in being up-to-date and complete. Just look at how fascinated people
were and are with Google Earth! If it's pretty easy for them to
contribute, many will.

At this point I don't worry about how complete OSM is. I worry about
how I can contribute to make it more complete! Sounds like it's
already possible to gather data for it with the Neo. I'll start asap.

Ortwin

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Re: Openmoko strives for openness

2008-03-19 Thread Ortwin Regel
What would be interesting to know: What is the next thing Openmoko
wants to do? A GTA03  Neo device with some changes in functionality
but keeping the general design? An entirely new device with possibly
other/revolutionary design goals? Multiple devices at the same time?

How about a TI OMAP3 as SoC? They seem to somewhat support open source
 Linux though I'm not sure to what extent and if they can be pushed
further in the right direction.
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbusplashcontent.tsp?templateId=6123contentId=4752
http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/gencontent.tsp?contentId=36915
http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/omap3530.html
Pandora ( http://www.openpandora.org/ ) uses the OMAP 3530. I'd like
to see a similarly powerful, similar form factor Openmoko device.
Maybe a cooperation with the Pandora guys would be possible, adding
Bluetooth and phone functionality to it?

Putting the rootfs on an internal microSD card sounds like it would
make sense. I'd like to have a second SD slot though, that is easier
to access. Full SD would be nice for that but microSD probably more
practical in a phone.

I don't have much of a clue about these things but here is what the
boot mechanism should make possible:
The first part starting the system has to be permanent and only
flashable with some effort (debug board). It should never need a
reflash. This part has to check if the user wants to start up normally
(power button) or wants to reflash the internal memory (power + aux).
The internal memory would contain everything that can change, such as
the boot loader and the OS. Flashing needs to be possible over USB. So
what needs to change is that flashing the internal memory isn't a
function of the bootloader, which sits in internal memory, but rather
something put into a part that boots up first and can't be changed
without the debug board and thus not destroyed by a virus or software
failures. The need of a debug board for repairing messed up software
would vanish.

Ortwin


On 3/19/08, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I wanted to point out to you something that has been happening quietly
 for awhile now.

 Often discussions start on Openmoko internal mailing lists. Suddenly we
 realize the discussion is important and that there is no reason for it
 to remain internal.

 There is a constant trend of moving these discussions from internal
 lists to public lists. Many Openmoko employees do this, but I'd
 particularly like to publicly thank Wolfgang Spraul for championing this
 and for setting up a culture that encourages everyone to think in these
 terms.

 I realize that often you, the world outside, see these discussions
 appear on the external lists and perhaps don't realize that this is a
 deliberate action on our part to hold as much discussion as possible in
 public rather than private forums.

 Regards,
 Michael

  Original Message 
 Subject: Post- GTA02
 Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:27:47 +
 From: Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Hi folks -

 We had some internal talk about how to go post GTA02 and Wolfgang wants
 us to make it external.

 We have a choice about basing on S3C2443 or S3C6400. A lot of the info
 is confidential but not these high level things which are public domain
 on Samsung's site.

 S3C2443 is an 130nm incremental improvement over the 2442 in GTA02 with
 480Mbps USB Device (not OTG) and better clock scaling. It can accept
 x16 DDR memory.

 S3C6400 is 90nm and has 480Mbps USB2 OTG, 667MHz max clock, some 2D
 acceleration and can accept x32 DDR memory.

 http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229partnum=S3C6400
 http://www.samsung.com/global/system/business/semiconductor/product/2007/8/21/661267ptb_s3c6400_rev15.pdf

 I like the 6400 better but information is a bit scarce right now and it
 can go either way.

 Some other concepts kicked around:

 - Merge the debug board function on to the phone, perhaps with internal
 micro USB used for debricking and hacking. No write-once memory.

 - Discard U-Boot, minimal bootloader direct to kernel

 - Focus on SD Card rootfs rather than internal memory

 - Add a small lowpower MPU like TI MPS430 to manage everything
 seamlessly when main CPU is down. Stuff like motion sensors, wake
 sources, battery management, maybe touchscreen, leds so there is an
 always-on guiding hand in the phone that is consistent and reliable

 To be clear though -- GTA02 is soon going to actually exist, and this is
 just future talk right now. But because of that, if you have any ideas
 about future arch, now is the time to throw them in and they will at
 least get the time of day.

 - -Andy
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 Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

 iD8DBQFH4OqjOjLpvpq7dMoRAldNAJ4kDtEv4ktKAVdw9UlW1G9+fEUMvgCfdH1e
 

Re: OpenMoko and accessories design

2008-03-13 Thread Ortwin Regel
How about using Bluetooth? Yeah, it would be a little strange but
think of it like this: You could take your phone out of the cradle
when it has finished charging and it would continue playing music
while you'd read the next chapter of your ebook in your bed.
With WLAN and Bluetooth, the only thing you really need a physical
connection for is charging.

Ortwin

On 3/12/08, Etienne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hello all,

 I know that what I'm gonna ask for is coming in quite late regarding the
 state
 of the design of the Neo, but still, I have to ask.

 I can see quite an opportunity for the Freerunner to be a device around
 which
 anybody can design additionnal accessories, thanks to the open philosophy
 around it. I especially would like to see (or design myself) some kind of
 base
 station like the ones existing for the iPod with high-quality loudspeakers.
 Something like that would obviously provide a mean to recharge the phone
 battery, but could also be designed to provide conference-call features
 around
 the Freerunner.

 However, from a mechanical point of view, I can see a major show-stopper,
 being
 the fact that the Freerunner connectors are positionned on both sides of the
 device, which leads to no solution to easily drop the device on a base
 station.
 I know I'm asking for a big change, but is there any chance the layout can
 be
 re-arranged so that the on/off button and the audio connector switch
 positions
 in the Freerunner ?

 Regards,

 --
 Etienne

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Re: Multi-touch: Many questions to one desire....

2008-03-04 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/4/08, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi guys,

 I have thought a bit about multitouch and its possible usecases and the
 longer
 I think about it the less exciting I find it on a mobile phone.

 The technology per se is great and I'm sure it will allow for great
 innovation
 among UI's on large monitors, tablets, and even desks.

 However, on small screen systems such as the Neo (or even the iPhone) --
 what
 do you want to do with it? The ubiquitous zooming and rotating examples are
 not convincing me at all. With some clever state logic you can zoom and
 rotate very efficient on unitouch systems.

 So... where are those usecases that apply to a phone?

 :M:


If there will ever be a dedicated OpenMoko gaming device, it needs a
multitouch screen. However, with a phone, even if it is a fully
featured pocket computer, I can't think of many things where it would
be useful, either. Zooming and rotating should be very doable with one
finger and some thinking. In fact, much of this thinking was already
done on this list months ago.

When multitouch screens become cheap and easy to get, of course one
should be included in every Openmoko device. For now it seems like a
very low priority thing. We haven't even begun to explore the
potential of a unitouch screen!

I don't want much right clicking on my phone. However, if it ever
becomes useful/necessary somewhere, you can always assign it to
AUX+tap.

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Re: iphone-haptic

2008-03-03 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/3/08, Gilbert Hartmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Does anyone know how this compares to the feedback on the Wii when using the
 keyboard? It sounds fairly similar (save for the Wii's lack of a
 touchscreen)

 - --Bert

It should be similar but there is a major difference: On the Wii you
get vibration feedback all the time while you are pointing at the
screen. On the Neo you only get vibration feedback when touching the
screen and touching the screen already means that you are pressing a
button. (On a standard touchscreen keyboard at least.)


To make vibration feedback with a tapping-keyboard more useful, the
force of the vibration could indicate whether you hit a key right in
the middle or more to the rim (and thus maybe hit the wrong key). I'm
not sure how much the force of a short vibration can be tuned on the
Neo but this is certainly something worth finding out.

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Re: iphone-haptic

2008-03-02 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/2/08, Andrea Debortoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 what about this??

 http://code.google.com/p/iphone-haptics/

 it would be very useful to have on FreeRunner too!!!


I have doubts about the usefulness of vibrator feedback. It can't help
you find a button or tell you whether you pressed the right one. All
it does is tell you that you pressed a button at all. That might be a
little better than no feedback at all but it can't replace much of the
visual or audible feedback. To make this more useful, interaction with
the touchscreen would need to include more sliding motions and less
tapping because with a sliding motion you can give constant vibration
feedback.

Ortwin

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Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...

2008-03-01 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
  On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
 
Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering
if you already examined the following Wiki-Link?
We had a very extensive discussion about text input running
on the community list several months ago.
Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki:
   
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input
   
My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even
a java demo available) and another text input (although
it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like
implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ).
   
If I remember correctly, all participants of the discussion
came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not
sufficient no matter how clever you pimp it, due to
restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen
space.
 
  i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use
  of it
  disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is
  disagreeing.
  users of that code are disagreeing.

 I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their
 QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the
 Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel
 keyboard on the market now. Bar none.

 Sean


Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text
input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone
else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with
it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input
method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to.

We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't
exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of
alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as
well as making it easy for the user to install more of them.

Some options I can think of that would find an audience:
-Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary,
closeness, combination, none)
-Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if
patent issues can be avoided)
-Dasher
-A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't
really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one.

The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options:
-Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still
visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and
some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work
with a stylus.
-Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close
the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device
for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big
as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't
need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two
lines of the text I last typed.
For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available.


Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method:
The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by
starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a
3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares
drawn in the right direction.
Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter
you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply
continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter
combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos
sliding motion.
There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should
be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special
characters-combination.
The character layout shouldn't follow any alphabet or QWERTY logic but
instead be entirely based on language. The reason is that it would
require learning from the ground up anyway so it should be as fast as
possible once you have learned it.
The small version for only taking up 1/3 of the screen would be
perfect in 2*5 which would also result in 44 combinations (again, if I
counted them right...).
Feedback and actual implementation of this would be very welcome! In
fact, I offer 30 Paypal €uros to the first person to make this work on
my Neo (meaning it has to come with simple installation instructions).

Ortwin

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Re: Virtual QWERTY Keyboards to be used with Fingers...

2008-03-01 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 3/1/08, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 3/1/08, Sean Moss-Pultz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 3/1/08 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote:
   On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 08:47:31 +0100 Karsten Ensinger
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
  
 Sorry to jump into the thread this late, but I am wondering
 if you already examined the following Wiki-Link?
 We had a very extensive discussion about text input running
 on the community list several months ago.
 Nearly all proposals were documented on the following Wiki:

 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Text_Input

 My personal favourites are the Quickwriting (there is even
 a java demo available) and another text input (although
 it seems to be another implementation of this more moko-like
 implementation: http://www.micropp.se/openmoko/splash.html ).

 If I remember correctly, all participants of the discussion
 came to the conclusion, that a regular qwerty keyboard is not
 sufficient no matter how clever you pimp it, due to
 restriction of precision of finger typing and lack of screen
 space.
  
   i disagree. reality of the qtopia predictive keyboard and actual use
   of it
   disagrees. talk and theory is fine - actual code that works is
   disagreeing.
   users of that code are disagreeing.
 
  I have to agree with Raster here. Trolltech did an amazing job on their
  QWERTY (onscreen) keypad. I highly recommend you trying it out on the
  Neo if you haven't already. Personally, I think it's the best touchpanel
  keyboard on the market now. Bar none.
 
  Sean
 

 Maybe it is. I still hate it and any other form of predictive text
 input I have used so far. That doesn't mean I want to prevent anyone
 else from having it. I can understand that some people are happy with
 it and it would probably be a good idea to use it as the default input
 method. What I want is an alternative I can very easily switch to.

 We don't want the perfect input method because it probably doesn't
 exist. Let's agree on disagreeing and try to figure out a base set of
 alternative input mechanisms that should be included in Openmoko as
 well as making it easy for the user to install more of them.

 Some options I can think of that would find an audience:
 -Predictive QWERTY, maybe with different prediction modes (dictionary,
 closeness, combination, none)
 -Multitap 3*4 standard phone layout (maybe with optional prediction if
 patent issues can be avoided)
 -Dasher
 -A sliding method. My favorite, even though I never used one and don't
 really know which of the ideas floating around will be the best one.

 The next thing to consider is size. There are basically two options:
 -Use about 1/3 of the screen so that the running program is still
 visible. The problem with this is that the space is very small and
 some of the methods above would not work at this size or only work
 with a stylus.
 -Use pretty much the whole screen while inputting something and close
 the input method afterwards. This worked very well on my Palm device
 for two thumb landscape QWERTY input but that screen was twice as big
 as the Neo's. It is my prefered way of doing input because I don't
 need to see the program while typing. I only need to see about two
 lines of the text I last typed.
 For all methods where this makes sense, both sizes should be available.


 Last, let me describe my imaginary perfect input method:
 The input area is divided in 3*3 squares. A letter is written by
 starting on a defined square and moving over one square to end in a
 3rd square. So every letter is a combination of 3 adjacent squares
 drawn in the right direction.
 Now here is what makes this fast and thus great: If the next letter
 you want to draw starts on the square you just ended on, you simply
 continue your slide and add two squares. This way, many letter
 combinations and even whole words could be written in one continuos
 sliding motion.
 There are 44 possible combinations (if I counted right) which should
 be plenty if we plan for a shift-combination and a numbers/special
 characters-combination.
 The character layout shouldn't follow any alphabet or QWERTY logic but
 instead be entirely based on language. The reason is that it would
 require learning from the ground up anyway so it should be as fast as
 possible once you have learned it.
 The small version for only taking up 1/3 of the screen would be
 perfect in 2*5 which would also result in 44 combinations (again, if I
 counted them right...).
 Feedback and actual implementation of this would be very welcome! In
 fact, I offer 30 Paypal €uros to the first person to make this work on
 my Neo (meaning it has to come with simple installation instructions).

 Ortwin


Well, so I can't count. If you consider that valid 3 square motions
are also moving to another square and then moving back to the old one
(which I didn't above) you end up with 68 for 3*3 and 70 for 2*5.
However, it might make

Re: Idea of a voice mail application

2008-03-01 Thread Ortwin Regel
And people just accept paying for incoming connections?! I still can't
get over how US phone contracts work... O.o

On 3/2/08, Mark Haury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 29 Feb 2008, at 17:34, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 
  siaPeter Trapp ha scritto:
  Hi everybody,
  I thought about the possibility of a voice mail installed on the
  neo.  The idea is to let the application decide if you are
  reachable for the caller or not. The decision will be done on
  profiles (time, who is calling, what to do (let it ring or answer
  directly) ). Eg: Saturday 10:00pm and your boss is calling (and
  you have a signal)
  Neo is aware that it is weekend and who is calling. It just
  turns on the voice mail... Dear Boss, actually it is weekend and I
  just don't want to get some work right now. Sorry, my neo will not
  even inform me that you've called. So don't try again later. It
  would not help until Monday 9am! Have a nice weekend
--- without the possibility to leave a message  ;)
 
 I would like this feature also, and really I assumed it would become
 a commonplace usage on OpenMoko.
 
  Cool, but your caller will pay for this.. So maybe it won't be so
  happy :P
 
 Stuff the caller. I carry a mobile phone so I can make outgoing calls
 when I'm away from home, not so I can be interrupted in the middle of
 a conversation. If someone is calling me they assume that they're
 going to incur the cost of a call, anyway, so I don't see that the
 cost of a call to voicemail is a large imposition (it is probably
 better than me answering my phone to say stuff you, at least).
 
 Stroller.

 In the USA, the originator of the call is irrelevant. It charges against
 your plan minutes regardless of whether you are making or receiving a
 cellular call. So if software on your phone is picking up the line and
 your phone itself is acting as the answering machine, it will use up
 your minutes as well as costing the caller minutes. Actually, if they're
 using a landline and you are a local call for them, it won't cost the
 caller anything, while it uses your minutes regardless.

 The exception is that often if the caller and the recipient are both on
 the same network, neither is charged. I know that's true of T-Mobile.

 Another issue is that this function will only work if your phone is both
 turned on and in service. Of course, maybe this functionality is only
 needed in that situation anyway (e.g. you are in service and want
 to receive calls from certain people and not certain others.)

 That said, I still think it's an extremely useful function for the phone
 to have by virtue of its power and flexibility. If it could do things like
 give different outgoing messages based on who's calling, or forward the
 incoming message (maybe even send to email?), or automatically send a text
 message and that kind of thing, it would be really cool. The suggestions
 of real-time screening (like you can do with a home answering machine) and
 sending calls from specific numbers (or all but specific numbers) directly
 to the provider's system voicemail are great too.

 Mark


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Re: Booting from SD

2008-02-28 Thread Ortwin Regel
The problem might be your u-boot version. Try this one:
http://buildhost.automated.it/u-boot-good-for-sd-boot-r13_0_2632_0.bin
It's what I've been using successfully. I never could get it to work
with other u-boot versions I tried.

Ortwin

On 2/28/08, Emre Turkay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi folks,

 I've downloaded the Feb.20.2008 images from
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/neo1973/deploy/glibc/images/neo1973/?C=M;O=D
 ,
 formatted the SD card as ext3, and prepared the SD for Boot as described in
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD. When I selected boot from
 sdcard option from the boot menu I've got a long list of errors (I couldn't
 read them) just before I was about to give up I've got the text login:
 screen. The sshd was not working either.

 What's wrong and I wonder did anybody successfully use the boot from sd card
 option?

 Thanks,

 Emre Turkay


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Re: Unbutu mobile

2008-02-26 Thread Ortwin Regel
Where do you draw the line? The Freerunner should be at least at the
lower end of that spectrum.

On 2/26/08, Nils Faerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dean Collins schrieb:
  http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
  Any thoughts?

 Different target:
 Leveraging the MID

 MIDs typically have the following features and attributes:

 * Small size/form factor
 * 4 to 7 inch touch screen
 * Physical and/or virtual keyboard
 * Wi-Fi, 3G, Bluetooth, GPS, WiMAX
 * 2GB to 8GB Flash or disk storage, 256MB+ memory/512MB+ recommended
 * OpenGL 3D
 * USB, camera, head phone jack, speakers, microphone
 

 Ubuntu mobile is targetting UMPC class devices, not mobile phones or PDAs.

  Regards,
  Dean Collins
 Cheers
   nils faerber

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Re: Interview with Raider Realm

2008-02-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
It sounds like Michael was talking about GSM in general. The area not
covered by that indeed does seem negligible in the US. You have got a
different issue. From what I picked up, it is not reasonably possible
to change the hardware in a GTA01 to support the 850 Mhz band. The
best option you have is probably to sell your GTA01 and get a GTA02
that supports 850 Mhz when they become available.

Ortwin

On 2/12/08, Christopher Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I read the Raiders Realm interview with Michael Shiloh Here is the excerpt I
 will am talking about

 RR: So is all of the hardware you have for this FCC certified and ready to
 use on different networks?

 MS: Yup.  Absolutely.  Now it is a GSM based phone, both models, which means
 they both use a sim card and the GSM network which is pretty common here in
 the states, but much more common in the rest of the world.  But there are
 some areas in the states that don't have coverage for that.  But that's
 pretty small.  In fact, I think it's virtually negligible.

 My question is of the 'Negligibility' of this issue. I do not know . nor do
 I claim to know, the number of GTA01s sold in the united states, and the
 ratio of those phones which found homes in GSM 850 areas. I would like to
 request a confirmation that this issue is being seriously addressed. I have
 sent three separate emails this month and not one person can tell me if I
 will EVER be able to send my GTA01 in for repair. I will cover the cost of
 shipping. Unfortunately I was one of the sorry bastards to get my device
 before this was a known issue. Im not asking for anything for free, nor do I
 wish to cause anyone a hassle. I only wish that the apparent few of us whom
 live in a GSM 850 Dominate state can get their devices repaired, at our
 shipping cost. If the answer is  I dont know,maybe in a few months or
 somthing like that, fine. I just want to know IF I can count on OpenMoko/FIC
 to rectify this issue now or in the future.



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Re: Schematics, circuit diagrams

2008-02-10 Thread Ortwin Regel
How about a different deal: We collect donations to get you a new
phone and you make your findings public under a free license?

On 2/10/08, joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi hardware-hackers!
 Anybody interested in my story?
 How i completely disassembled my GTA01, put everything on a
 needlebed-tester,
 and checked the parts
 (including reconstructed schematics)

 Paperprint only, about 5 pages DIN-A2. No digital data.
 $79,90
 Sorry for this price, i have to buy a new GTA, for obvious reasons ;-) Old
 one
 didn't do it anymore.
 Orders will be stacked and shipped all at same day when order volume is
 sufficient.



 coming soon: how i disassembled my GTA02...
 Eagle-files

 free your phone!
 ;-)
 jOERG

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Re: 2007.11 snapshot available

2007-12-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
Tilting is an awful control method for almost anything. The main reason
being that you move the screen around while tilting. Other problems are that
it's exausting and lacks feedback. Even tilting to automatically switch the
screen orientation can be annoying if you're lying on your side in your bed
reading an ebook. I can not imagine any useful contribution of tilting to
text input.

Ortwin

On Dec 5, 2007 2:52 PM, Joseph J. McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 What if you could tilt the Neo to switch keyboards instead. Or, perhaps,
 instead of multi-tap you tilt and press 2 to get B instead of hold
 horizontal and tap 2 to get A.

 It seems that the accelerometers could be used to make the keyboard
 easier to use.

 Now that I am typing perhaps the coolest, would be to have something
 like a full qwerty with keys that are too big to fit the whole keyboard
 on the screen, but you tilt it to access the off-screen ones (you tilt
 left and the keyboard slides over so that you can get to the L key).

 Just some thoughts.

 Joe

 Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
 
  Wiadomość napisana w dniu Dec 5, 2007, o godz 10:14 AM, przez Thomas
 Wood:
 
 
  On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 09:20 +0100, Krzysztof Kajkowski wrote:
 
 
  For me it's also finger-usable keyboard - just like the one in Qtopia.
  With that you can operate your phone without stylus (in most cases).
 
  Chris has worked on a multi-tap input method:
 
  http://chrislord.net/blog/Software/multitap-pad.enlighten
 
 
  That's wonderful news! What I also like in Qtopia's keyboard is ability
  to switch between number, symbol and letters keyboard by moving you
  finger down or up on keyboard.
 
  Obviously T9 will not be implemented due to patent issues. I will ask
  him if the source is available anywhere.
 
 
  T9 is not necessary important (i.e. I do not use english on my phone so
  probably I would need to hack it to include polish T9 database). It is
  useful in SMSes but not on writing URLs or console ;)
 
  cayco
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 William Kepler Whiteford Faculty Fellow
 Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering
 University of Pittsburgh
 1249 Benedum Hall Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15261
 Ph. 412-624-7362; Fax 412-624-9639
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Re: need someone to develop this....

2007-12-03 Thread Ortwin Regel
On Dec 1, 2007 4:35 AM, Nkoli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Nov 30, 2007 3:34 PM, Michael Shiloh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  If Bob (or Alice) hands his (or her) phone to the other, then if both
  phones are shaken in the same hand, the acceleration pattern might
  provide an extremely unique yet similar signature, not unlike exchanging
 
  an encryption key.
 
  So if you want to establish a trusted relationship with another Neo
  user, the two phones are shaken together until the software indicates
  that you have generated a complex enough pattern that has been
  recognized on the other.
 
  Once this has been established, they can exchange one of the standard
  encryption keys.
 
  All without pressing a single key, and without danger of exposing
  anything to other Neo or bluetooth devices within range.
 
 
 You mean... like this...
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktJC0S4_X58


An interesting (though probably not as useful and secure) variation could be
to stack the phones on top of each other and have one phone send a vibration
pattern to the other. One could even exchange data that way at very very low
speeds... B)

Ortwin Regel
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Re: palm apps on linux?

2007-11-25 Thread Ortwin Regel
I NEED this on my Neo, coming from a Tapwave Zodiac... I guess it's up to
Access to do it. I wonder if they've got a deal with Nokia? And if not,
what's the business model? I'd be willing to pay a reasonable sum for a Palm
emulator on my Neo.

Ortwin

On Nov 21, 2007 5:26 AM, Matthew Naftzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I've been wondering about this:  Palm apps on linux, and of course, on
 OpenMoko in particular.  I now see it's been done for the Nokia N-tablets :
 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/Anyway to port something
 like this over?  Is this, or a similar vm already being done?  It would give
 a wealth of apps that people are used to, and tie in with a long standing
 community that is seemingly going to be going away unless Palm has a rabbit
 up its sleeve.

 Matthew Naftzger

 www.worksofman.com



 A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth-Albert
 Einstein






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Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request

2007-11-25 Thread Ortwin Regel
If they suspect you anyway.

Quote: *In some cases, judges have granted the requests without even
requiring the government to demonstrate probable cause that a crime is
taking place or that the inquiry will yield evidence of a crime
*
I wonder how difficult it would be for criminals or the music industry to
obtain that data? In Germany, our bloody joke of a government has just
passed a law that orders companies to keep this data for half a year!

On Nov 26, 2007 1:19 AM, flexd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 If you just obey the law, when will they ever need to track you?


 justin daly skrev:
  http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/23/196229from=rss
  http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/23/196229from=rss
 
  please don't let the rest of the world fall under the same privacy
  stranglehold.
 
  i wholeheartedly support this open platform that gives its users the
  control to turn -any- of its radios on or off at will (of the
  operator...).
 
  thank you fic and openmoko! i can't wait to get some of these for my
  friends...
  justin daly
  
 
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Re: Battery time

2007-11-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
Yeah, PLEASE give us a terminal! I'm a complete noob at all things Linux but
I already don't feel right if I don't have a terminal to mess with... Later
when the Neo is a consumer ready device it might be a good idea to take the
terminal out of the versions for the general public (or at least hide it
well). At this point, though, everybody using the Neo with Qtopia should be
interested in a terminal or at least not confused by it. ;)

Ortwin

On Nov 11, 2007 3:12 PM, Peter A Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  * No terminal. Ugh.
 
  Do you really need a terminal app on a phone?
  Most phones do not have a term on them. besides, it is opensource, so
  anyone could get one working. Any takers?


 I guess most/all here are geeks. I have to admit that the first thing I
 want to know before buying a new smart phone is can I use a terminal/ssh on
 it. pocket putty was a blessing. But I hope much better things will come
 from this project. Maybe I will try to carve out some time in December...

 I'm guessing anyone into Linux is going to want this though :)

 -Pete



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Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons

2007-11-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480,
 it's still tiny)

The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text input but
there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around to solve that.

and the ruggedness of the device

I can't say too much about that but it seems pretty solid to me. I read
about other people's buttons breaking and that sounds like a realistic issue
if you use them a lot. You should get some sort of protector foil for the
screen as the danger of damaging it is always big, especially with
touchscreens.

My requirements are:  640x480 (for suitably transcoded movies),

From my experience with devices, the GTA02 hardware should do that pretty
easily. I have not idea how long it will take until the necessary software
is written/ported, though.


 runs Linux

It obviously does that.

wireless access

 Do you mean WLAN? The GTA02 will have the hardware and probably the
software after a short while.

can make occasional phone calls.

The GTA01 already makes phone calls.

And a general note: Your tone is very agressive and demanding. This does
nothing but annoy people. I'd recommend you try to be more friendly and
tolerant of seemingly unnecessary comments and people will probably be more
friendly to you.

Ortwin
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Re: OpenMoko phone comparisons

2007-11-12 Thread Ortwin Regel
On Nov 13, 2007 1:12 AM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ortwin Regel wrote:
  On Nov 11, 2007 6:33 PM, Peter Naulls [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I have concerns about the screen size (even though it's 640x480,
  it's still tiny)
 
  The screen is small but usable. The biggest problem I see is text
  input but there are some interesting projects and ideas flying around
  to solve that.
 How about in terms of viewing movies or graphics - is that sensible; the
 pixels are surely minuscule?

It's quite hard to see the individual pixels but as far as I'm concerned
this is a good thing. Things look very sharp. Of course, some pictures and
videos might have to be scaled up to fit the screen. The Neo is not the best
virtual picture frame or movie theatre but it should be great for viewing
high res videos and photos (high res for a mobile device) on the go.
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Re: Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?

2007-11-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well, we've got the Aux button to replace that. As far as I understood it
it's a simple button press thing.

On Nov 6, 2007 8:36 PM, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 What are the features of the chumby?
 Wi-fi connectivity • access to the free Chumby Network • 3.5 LCD
 color touchscreen • two external USB 2.0 full-speed ports • 350 MHz
 ARM processor • 64 MB SDRAM • 64 MB NAND flash ROM • stereo 2W
 speakers • headphone output • squeeze sensor • accelerometer (motion
 sensor) • leather casing • AC adapter included

 I think the GTA02 would handle that just fine.  The only thing it's
 missing is the squeeze sensor.

 -Steven

 On 11/6/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software
 on
  OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible?
  Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped
 OpenMoko
  device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while.
 After
  five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically
 and
  displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of
 the
  power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko.
  Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got
 all
  the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make
 sense
  if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the
 house.
  Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though,
 so it
  would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the
 GTA02,
  we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi.
 
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Chumby on OpenMoko/Neo1973?

2007-11-06 Thread Ortwin Regel
Would it be possible to run the Chumby ( http://chumby.com/ ) software on
OpenMoko / the Neo1973? What would it take to make this possible?
Why do I want it? Imagine it like this: Plug your Chumby equiped OpenMoko
device into the USB charging cable (/cradle). Let it sit for a while. After
five minutes of no activity, the Chumby software starts up automatically and
displays flash widgets, just like a Chumby would. With a simple press of the
power button, you get out of Chumby and back into OpenMoko.
Makes sense, doesn't it? Why get another immobile device if you've got all
the hardware to run Chumby software in your Neo? It might still make sense
if you want a permanent Chumby beside your bed or multiple around the house.
Many people probably would not want to get the hardware twice, though, so it
would make sense to make their Neos work as part time Chumbys. In the GTA02,
we should have all the necessary hardware with accelerometers and Wifi.
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Re: HD8X FCC approved

2007-10-31 Thread Ortwin Regel
I hope their awesome fresh software will run on our Neo1973s, too. I'd
gladly pay money for that stuff. :) Would be great if they could keep the
data open, though. Anyone from Dash around who can comment a little more on
what is planned?

Ortwin

On 10/31/07, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  ... I'm assuming that it runs or will run
  Openmoko.

 Tim O'Reilly said so too:

 http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/dash_web2summit_openmoko.html

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Re: Possible to add OpenMoko to the email title

2007-10-18 Thread Ortwin Regel
This discussion has been had before. The conclusion was that you should get
a better email app.

On 10/18/07, David Shanks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi All,

 New to the list and excited about the possibility of a open phone.  Still
 new so i'm mainly lurking for now.

 I suppose this is directed to the list moderators/admins.
 I was wondering if there is a way to have openmoko or some list
 descriptor
 like community added in front of the subject of the emails sent out by
 the
 list.
 It would make sorting my emails much simpler, as right now i'm forced to
 sort my mailbox by hand daily.

 David

 p.s. I'm not really a developer, but would be interested in learning about
 how to develop apps or other modules for openmoko.  I did take some
 programming classes in uni (mainly C++), but I find that if I can get a
 handle of syntax, i can figure out the way programs work.Anyways,
 anyone
 have a recommendation where to start (learn)?


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Re: Some ideas for the accelerometer

2007-10-14 Thread Ortwin Regel
This doesn't work well because the screen moves with the phone. So if you
want to scroll right fast, you'll have trouble to see what's going on on the
screen. Scrolling should rather be done on the touchscreen because that
works really well. However, dragging the map/website as if it was physical
is too slow in most cases. Increasing scrolling velocity by the distance
from the initial touchpoint would probably be a good idea but adjustable
scrolling speed would be great already. Instead of scrolling one screen far
when I move my finger once across the screen, I want to scroll four screens
so that I get where I want quicker. Someone else might only want to scroll
one screen.
Kinetic scrolling can extend this and look/feel awesome but also be very
annoying so it should probably be optional.

Now what do we do with the accelerometer? I like the zooming idea. It
shouldn't require a hardware button press because those are kind of hard to
press. Touching the screen should be enough and it would mean that you can
zoom and scroll at the same time and pretty intuitively.

About the initial idea: Judging from my DS accelerometer (which is different
hardware but should be relatively similar), the sampling frequency will
probably be pretty high. I still doubt that you can reliably differentiate
between walking and hitting the phone. However, it might be possible to
shake it two or three times with a frequency faster than any form of running
and it should be possible to detect this. This probably won't help you if
the phone is hidden in a huge backpack.
It's also important to remember that the motion of picking up your phone
should not lead to denial of the call... ;)

Ortwin


On 10/12/07, David Pottage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Friday 12 October 2007, Oliver wrote:
  I've had similar ideas, but haven't posted them yet. Here's one:
 
  Imagine you're surfing the internet, or checking a map, or something
 like
  that. We don't have a multi-touch screen, so we can't zoom out with our
  fingers like iPhone users. Zooming out, though, is something we really
  should be able to do. So just hold a hardware button and bring the phone
  closer to your face!
 
  The site/image should be shrunk in such a way that you'll think it is
  stationary behind the phone, and the phone screen is a window through
  which you can view this image/site! When you've spotted something you
 want
  to focus on, somewhere else on the page, don't scroll, just keep holding
  the button bringing the phone/window down to that place. If you stop
  holding the button, the image can either stay where it is, or go to it's
  original zoom-level.
 
  Just imagine, if you think of the screen as a window, what incredibly
 fun
  games you could develop for the phone!

 I think a better idea would be to think of the screen as a mirror that you
 are
 using to view a much larger page behind you. That way you can intuitively
 scroll both vertically and horizontally a large page or map by tilting the
 screen, and without using the touchscreen. (Which can be reserved for
 other
 functions).

 A lot of UI ideas here are coppied from other touch screen devices. That's
 fine where appropriate, but the Neo 1973 is the only phone with built in
 accelerometers, and I think we should make use of them where we can. We
 should not just copy the iPhone or whatever, that only uses it's
 accelerometer as a tilt sensor to make the display image the right way up.

 --
 David Pottage

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Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD

2007-10-09 Thread Ortwin Regel
Because I couldn't get booting from SD to work with either Qtopia or
OpenMoko, I tried the other option (
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qtopia_on_Neo_1973#Qtopia_AND_OpenMoko_Option_1).
It doesn't work, either. The gui vanishes and the last few lines
(after
lots of lines related to pressing buttons/touching the screen) are:

FreeFontPath: FPE built-ins refcount is 2, should be 1; fixing.
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs3
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa3

xinit:  unexpected signal 15.
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcs2
PM: Removing info for No Bus:vcsa2

I've got no idea what any of this means. o.o Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Ortwin

On 10/7/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get
 booting from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must
 be missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems
 to suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any
 ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast
 when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on.

 Ortwin

 On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  ian douglas pisze:
  [...]
   So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see
   what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki
   page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this
   going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously
   have already tried Qtopia on the Neo.
  
   Thanks,
   Ian
 
  I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had
  to do
  (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified
  that
  both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still
  don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now.
  Please
  notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have
  downloaded for Openmoko.
 
  [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block
  [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core
  [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0*
  brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0
  brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
  mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005)
  Etykieta systemu plików=
  Typ OS: Linux
  Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0)
  Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0)
  123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków
  24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika
  Pierwszy blok danych=1
  Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152
  61 grup bloków
  8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie
  2032 i-węzłów w grupie
  Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach:
  8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409
 
  Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono
  Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano
  Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano
 
  Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań
  lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez
  tune2fs -c lub -i.
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/
  razem 12
  drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01-
  qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/
  bin  boot  dev  etc  home  lib  lost+found  media  mnt  opt  proc  sbin  
  sys  tmp  usr  var
 
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/boot/
  zImage
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # cp 
  Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/
  [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
  razem 1608
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
  uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage -
  zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
  [root: /media/card/boot] # ln -s 
  uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.binuImage
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
  razem 1608
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  39 wrz 27 20:30 uImage -
  uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
  -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
  uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
  lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage -
  zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] #
  [root: /media/card/boot] # cd
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] # umount /media/card
  [root: ~] #
  [root: ~] #
 
  and that's it...
  Piotr
 
  P.S. sorry for output in polish, but it is nothing important... good
  luck

Looking for debug board near Hildesheim/Germany

2007-10-09 Thread Ortwin Regel
Well, it had to happen sooner or later. I thought it might be a good idea to
try different u-boot versions to get around my little dual boot problem. It
wasn't. My Neo doesn't want to power on anymore. So is there anyone who can
fix my Neo with their fancy debug board reasonably near Hildesheim? I'd
rather drive over personally than send the thing via post if it can be
avoided.
From tomorrow until Saturday I'll be in Frankfurt for the book fair so if
you are in that area you could help me out, too, if you answer fast.
Unfortunately I don't know if I'll have easy internet access down there and
of course I won't have a phone... :P

Please help me!

Ortwin Regel
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Re: rootfs?

2007-10-08 Thread Ortwin Regel
A list of different places:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Repositories

http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/?M=D has updates every few days and
the images are a little customized. It's also got Qtopia images.
http://celtune.morb-design.com/images/fic-gta01/?C=M;O=D updates often, too,
and it's got the archive version you need if you want to boot from SD card.

On 10/8/07, Zalunin Pavel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 where I can get rootfs for OpenMoko? I was tried to download it from
 rapidshare, but we have non-stable internet and this way isn't real for
 belarussian people:)

 best regards, Zalunin Pavel

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Re: still having trouble getting Neo to boot Qtopia from SD

2007-10-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
I tried pretty much exactly the steps you described but I can't get booting
from SD card to work, neither for Qtopia not for OpenMoko I must be
missing something. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD seems to
suggest that you need to use a specially prepared kernel. Is this so? Any
ideas what else could be the problem? Unfortunately the Neo resets so fast
when trying to boot from SD that I can't really read what's going on.

Ortwin

On 9/27/07, Piotr Duda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ian douglas pisze:
 [...]
  So Piotr, could you maybe please post your bash_history for us to see
  what exactly you did, to get this going? I'd be happy to edit the wiki
  page for Qtopia on the Neo for booting from SD if I can just get this
  going -- but experimentation is just frustrating when others obviously
  have already tried Qtopia on the Neo.
 
  Thanks,
  Ian

 I have repeated all the steps once again, and below is everything I had to
 do
 (as I wrote earlier, I didn't have to add uboot menu). I have verified
 that
 both Qtopia from SDcard and Openmoko from nand memory are booting. Still
 don't have working sound in Qtopia and no time to play with it now. Please

 notice that I used kernel not from Qtopia site, but most recent I have
 downloaded for Openmoko.

 [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_block
 [root: ~] # modprobe mmc_core
 [root: ~] # modprobe sdhci
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # ls -l /dev/mmcblk0*
 brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 0 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0
 brw-r- 1 root disk 252, 1 wrz 27 20:08 /dev/mmcblk0p1
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
 mke2fs 1.38 (30-Jun-2005)
 Etykieta systemu plików=
 Typ OS: Linux
 Rozmiar bloku=1024 (log=0)
 Rozmiar fragmentu=1024 (log=0)
 123952 i-węzłów, 495460 bloków
 24773 bloków (5.00%) zarezerwowanych dla superużytkownika
 Pierwszy blok danych=1
 Maksymalna liczba bloków systemu plików=67633152
 61 grup bloków
 8192 bloków w grupie, 8192 fragmentów w grupie
 2032 i-węzłów w grupie
 Kopie zapasowe superbloku zapisane w blokach:
 8193, 24577, 40961, 57345, 73729, 204801, 221185, 401409

 Zapis tablicy i-węzłów: zakończono
 Tworzenie kroniki (8192 bloków): wykonano
 Zapis superbloków i podsumowania systemu plików: wykonano

 Ten system plików będzie automatycznie sprawdzany co każde 33 montowań
 lub co 180 dni, zależnie co nastąpi pierwsze. Można to zmienić poprzez
 tune2fs -c lub -i.
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # ls -l /media/card/
 razem 12
 drwx-- 2 root root 12288 wrz 27 20:17 lost+found
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # tar -C /media/card/ -xzf Download/ficgta01-
 qtopia-developer-rootfs.tgz
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/
 bin  boot  dev  etc  home  lib  lost+found  media  mnt  opt  proc  sbin  sys  
 tmp  usr  var

 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # ls  /media/card/boot/
 zImage
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # cp 
 Download/uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin/media/card/boot/
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # cd /media/card/boot/
 [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
 razem 1608
 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage -
 zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
 [root: /media/card/boot] # ln -s uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.binuImage
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] # ls -l
 razem 1608
 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  39 wrz 27 20:30 uImage -
 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1637614 wrz 27 20:29
 uImage-2.6.22.5-moko11-r2-fic-gta01.bin
 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  22 wrz 27 20:27 zImage -
 zImage-2.6.21.6-moko11
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] #
 [root: /media/card/boot] # cd
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] # umount /media/card
 [root: ~] #
 [root: ~] #

 and that's it...
 Piotr

 P.S. sorry for output in polish, but it is nothing important... good luck

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Re: qtopia flash image update

2007-10-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
With the latest build from http://buildhost.automated.it/OM2007.2/ I can
unlock the phone after inputting my PIN two times but it doesn't want to
register with the network. Also, the phone is very unresponsive and only
registers touch screen input every once in a while. Sounds like this might
be related:
http://www.qtopia.net/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=499forum=4Guess
I'll have to try the ssh thing when I put the next build on my Neo but
it would really help if a terminal app was included in Qtopia...

Ortwin

On 10/2/07, Heilpern, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm seeing the same problems with the new Qtopia image. The device comes
 up locked (with no apparent way to unlock it) -- the touch screen
 controls flash so I know they're registering, but the screen doesn't go
 to the unlock screen. The bottom left soft menu is unlock, but
 touching the screen there doesn't register at all.

 Holding in the power button for a moment provides the restart/shutdown
 menu. Selecting shutdown device puts the clock icon on screen but
 doesn't go beyond that. Instead, it appears that the phone has crashed
 hard; only removal of the battery gets results from here.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of andy selby
 Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 12:42 PM
 To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: qtopia flash image update

 On 02/10/2007, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I have uploaded a Qtopia snapshot version flash image for the Neo.

  a few Known issues:
 
  * suspend/resume not fully working. must restart Qtopia to get modem
 working
  again.
  * inputmethod covers some widgets (bluetooth settings)
  * no modem mux (no gprs)
  * no mms support (no wap stack integrated)
  * bluetooth audio not tested on Neo yet, probably needs work.

 Err.. how about the software is locked as default and shutdown the
 device doesn't work?
 but I'm sure the rest of the software is good, keep up the good work.

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Re: Right-click (as opposed to left-click)

2007-10-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
Right click could be emulated by pressing and holding AUX and then tapping.
Of course that means that other AUX button functionality could only be
activated after releasing the button without touching the screen. Native
apps should never need right clicking, though. It would only be useful for
fast ports.

Ortwin

On 10/7/07, Mikkel Meyer Andersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi,

 Cheers for the tip, but I also mean in general. It would be nice to
 could widen the functionality so that different clicks can be made.
 Maybe just through an icon in the panel (this should work as a setting
 so that the type click could be selected by activating that specific
 panel-item).

 Well, still gonna check you tip later for that specific game :-).

 / Mikkel

 ian douglas skrev:
  On my old Treo, you could press the stylus on a square, and drag up to
  flag it, or drag left to clear a flag. Dunno if the OM version of the
  game does that though. If not, it'd be handy if it did.
 
  -id
 
 
  Mikkel Meyer Andersen wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I've just tried Mines (testing purposes only, of course!), but it's
  kind of hard to win with-out being able to right-click. Does anyone
  know how to perform such an exotic action?
 
  Regards,
  Mikkel
 
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Re: Neo Developer Version

2007-09-26 Thread Ortwin Regel
Pretty sure they are GTA01 as we haven't heard anything about GTA02 being
finalized and it isn't planned before October anyway.

Ortwin

On 9/26/07, Andreas Hennig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello!

 Some more Phase 1 Neo's will be shiped end of september. Does somebody
 now,
 whether they will be GTA02 or GTA01?

 Thanks

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Re: Is neo1973 dual boot possible?

2007-09-21 Thread Ortwin Regel
Seems like it should, with the instructions at
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD . Could someone prepare
binaries ready for putting onto my SD card? And is there a program that can
format cards with different filesystems from Windows?

Ortwin

On 9/21/07, Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  My idea is to have one OS on flash memory and second on SD card. Anybody
 knows if it would work?

 Regards,
 --
 *Bartlomiej Zdanowski*
 Programmer
 Product Research  Development Department
 AutoGuard S.A.

  Place of registration: Regional Court for the Capital City of Warsaw
 Registration no.: 287629
 Share capital: 1 059 000 PLN
 Polish VAT and tax ID no.: PL1132219747
 Omulewska 27 street
 04-128 Warsaw
 Poland
 phone +48 22 611 69 23
 www.autoguard.pl

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Re: stylus alternative

2007-09-11 Thread Ortwin Regel
There is also http://www.comfortstylus.com/ which kind of works. It's
especially well suited for FPS games on the DS, probably not the best thing
for phone navigation, though.
The problem with all the finger attachments is that your finger still pretty
much obstructs the view instead of being replaced by a much thinner stylus.
By the way, if you keep looking around for finger cap styli for the DS, you
can find some really scary looking ones...

Ortwin

On 9/10/07, Robin Paulson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 so, i've been following the discussion on finger-based vs.
 stylus-based apps. and i thought it might be a good idea to come up
 with some ideas for something between the two:
 a short (20-30mm long) piece of kit, attached to the finger end

 it would not be gripped between fingers and thumb but instead would
 slip over the end of one finger. it could either be a metal/plastic
 ring, or a soft, close-fitting cap, such as the rubber types used by
 money-counters. a point would be needed to apply pressure to the
 screen - this could be a short piece of metal/plastic, rigidly
 attached to the ring/cap part of the stylus.

 myself, i would be more likely to carry one (lot smaller than stylus,
 cheap to replace if lost) and if it was well-designed it would be
 virtually unnoticeable by others

 anyone else see my vision? or am i insane?

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Re: Convince me NOT to cancel my order.

2007-08-28 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 8/26/07, Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Why am I not being given the choice to RIGHT NOW to be placed at the
 FRONT
  of the GTA02 sales queue?
 
  Why dont I have a billion dollars?  I really want it and I could really
  use it...
 
 

 Why don't I get respect from a company I'm trying to support at my
 expense?  I really want it and I could really use it.


You are getting respect but not magic.
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Re: mailing list management

2007-08-14 Thread Ortwin Regel
Learn to use Gmail. Also it's relevant for everything where you can only see
the first X letters of a topic in your list of emails. Like pretty much
every mail client and webmail interface out there. So adding the tags to the
end of the subject line is a pretty good idea which I could live with while
adding them to the front would really annoy me.

On 8/14/07, hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oops again. That reply to thing is a bitch.

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: hank williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Date: Aug 14, 2007 4:52 PM
 Subject: Re: mailing list management
 To: Daniel Mewes [EMAIL PROTECTED]



  I
  use pager notification for my e-mails and text paging in Germany has a
  very limited message length.


 Wow. now thats a great target design platform for a mailing list. lol.

 Hank



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Re: Gaming with the Neo

2007-08-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
I'd prefer a Wiimote attached to the Neo with some kind of plastic holder
but this is a nice alterative.

On 8/7/07, Mario Wewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Anyone of you ever saw something like this?


 http://www.amazon.de/Handy-GamePad-Bluetooth-Smartphones-Pocket/dp/B000H8TQSM/ref=sr_1_57/028-7732093-9147747?ie=UTF8s=ce-deqid=1186487069sr=1-57

 I just found this solution on the german Amazon-Page... Seems like a VERY
 CHEAP alternative (~25€) to use the Neo as a gaming-platform... (connected
 to the phone via bluetooth)


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Re: Google Phone is coming...

2007-08-07 Thread Ortwin Regel
I love the rumors... Really hope they are true! :D

On 8/7/07, Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 8/4/07, Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo?
 
  Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the
  completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use
  their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and
  open alike.
 

 Looks like I might end up eating my words:

 There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing
 a gPhone mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech
 Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A
 friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to
 team up with OpenMoko for their gPhone. Google will not be using the
 FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko
 platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through
 HTC, and making a few changes along the way. 

 Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_itempx=NTk1Mw

 J.

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Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?

2007-08-06 Thread Ortwin Regel
I guess you can't have a revolution without breaking some laws... ;)

On 8/7/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 6 Aug 2007, at 23:58, Ortwin Regel wrote:

  Run an open Wifi node.
 

 It's becoming less and less of a good idea to do that these days. You
 are responsible for any activity on your connection, so if someone
 commits a crime you'll have a hard time proving it wasn't you.

 But anyway, on the topic of wifi, is anyone planning any Wifi tools?
 easily sharing data like music, ringtones, browser links, contact
 card etc?


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Re: Finger Graffiti

2007-07-30 Thread Ortwin Regel
Worrying about worrying about the trademark issue is even more irrelevant.
Pointing things like this out early is a good thing. Further discussion
about the trademark issue isn't necessary, though, it's annoying.

Ortwin

On 7/30/07, Jay Vaughan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Rod Whitby wrote:
  Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the Graffiti trademark ..
  Hmm ... someone could just as well say:
  Ah cripes, who freaking *CARES* about the OpenMoko trademark ..
 

 Is someone actually developing something which uses the OpenMoko
 properties?  I don't think so.

  Doesn't sound so good when you say it that way, does it?
 

 I'm not saying don't be trademark-sensitive, I'm saying that
 worrying about the Graffiti trademark is irrelevant, because nobody
 is putting, actually, Graffiti into anything.  There are plenty of
 Graffiti alternatives around .. it just happens that Graffiti is what
 people know finger painting on your PDA to be .. its common enough
 to warrant usage as a word referring to the activity of finger-
 painting symbols for recognition on a devices surface.  Graffiti,
 itself, is useless to us.  Similar techniques which do not violate
 anyones rights are useful; to discuss, to implement, and hopefully to
 use.

  Note that David didn't accuse anyone of breaching trademark rights, he
  simply pointed out that OpenMoko (or anyone else for that matter other
  than the trademark holder) should be careful not to release any
  software
  package with the trademarked term Graffiti in it's name.  And he
  said
  he would only say it once, so as not to annoy people by continually
  harping on it.
 

 It would have been wonderful advice if there is actually some release
 going on.

  Don't forget that OpenMoko is a company too.  You can't favour and
  protect one companies trademarks and not do the same for another.
 

 I don't care about the trademark issue until there is actually
 something to attach a mark to.  So far, there is nothing in this
 direction.  All I care about is that the technical creativity not be
 stifled by legalese so soon in the game ..

 ;

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Re: Java games for openMoko

2007-07-28 Thread Ortwin Regel
Remember that the Neo doesn't have the buttons for games. The touchscreen
can only do one button at a time, so an external gamepad (USB or Wiimote)
would be necessary.

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, John Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello,

 I'm sorry but I'm new to the openMoko system. So my question, is it
 possible to play java games, like for other mobiles, on the openMoko? I
 know, they must be compiled for it. But is it possible to play in the same,
 easy way, some java games?

 Thanks,
 John

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Re: [Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months

2007-07-27 Thread Ortwin Regel
Only Tchibo - Tchibo calls are free, and only for 24 months if you buy
before 2007-08-09. To benefit from this you'd have to get two or more of
this offer and give one to everyone you phone often.
SMS are relatively expensive and I wasn't able to find anything about
data...

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Salve,

 sorry that this is only a tip for OpenMoko people
 in Germany -  there is a quite interesting
 offer since today:

 Prepaid SIM for 5 Euro with free calls to other
 SIMs (users) of this special sold offer for the
 next 24 month. I haven't found a limitation of
 minutes/month.
 http://www.tchibo.de
 :)

 I think there is something like fair-use
 so when you/I use this offer less intensive
 then some teenies


 This offer use the network of O2 and it could
 be that this free calls are only valid inside
 the O2 network in Germany. If the mobil use
 the D1 roaming inside Germany it could be that
 this calls are not for free... (I will check this)
 and realy cool would it be, when datacalls from
 Tchibo-SIM to Tchibo-SIM would be free as well.

 The selling this special Prepaid-cards is anounced
 to run until 9.8.2007.

 See also:
 http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw30/s26634.html


 BTW: the shops have mobils as well, I had the luck to
 get a Nokia 1112 with Prepaid SIM for 20 Euro.
 The battery BL-5CA of this mobil is Neo1973 compatible
 (already tested) and has a charger that could
 help when your are going to buy a stand alone
 battery charger from Nokia or third-party vendor.

 The FIC GTC-01/GTA-01 battery is setting the
 Nokia 1112 into test mode - so this
 20 Euro inc Prepaid-SIM offer is not  realy
 likly to work as Second Battery for the neo,
 Battery Charger and Prepaid-SIM deal


 But the sim itself (with a second sim of this
 offer) would be very interesting to use with
 the neo.

 It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second
 SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so
 cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB
 needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe
 with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo)

 Greetings,
 rob




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Re: Product naming / wiki page naming / restructuring

2007-07-27 Thread Ortwin Regel
On 7/27/07, Harald Welte [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  There might come
 
  Neo1974 or even
  Neo2007

 Yes.  And actually, nijutsu will also tell us about the Neo1907 at some
 point :)


FIC vacuum cleaner? Camera? What about the Neo968? Neo1979?
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Re: What happened to the order?

2007-07-27 Thread Ortwin Regel
I am in the same situation.

Ortwin

On 7/27/07, Asbjørn Sannes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 If I understood correctly orders within the U.S. was shipped first, and
 then international developers would get their phones..

 I have received three e-mails from openmoko: AutoReply: OpenMoko direct
 order, Your OpenMoko direct order (which I replyed to YES_I_DO), and
 Payment received: OpenMoko direct order.

 Since then I have heard nothing, but I can see from the P1 Owners page
 that other higher numbered rts, ordering the exact same thing (Advanced
 kit, B/S), to the exact same location (Oslo, Norway) have received
 shipping notifications.

 Anyone else experienced this? Is my order gone? Am I waiting for
 something that won't happen?
 Is there something that I should have done that I have not?

 Any pointers appreciated :)

 Greetings,
 Asbjørn Sannes


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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

2007-07-26 Thread Ortwin Regel

On 7/26/07, Raphaël Jacquot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I recently read some press article that stated that for younger
people, email was dead, and everything happened on MSN.
well, I, for one, won't be often in those stupid HTML forums either, I
consider those things
* a waste of resources and time
* impossible to search
so they are pretty useless
also, they tend to multiply, which makes searching for relevant
information rather impossible or pointless

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Most forums come with a working search engine.
Don't load the images and you get pretty small pages that probably aren't
bigger than the quote trains lazy top replying (I do it myself) creates.

But why are we even bothering to have this discussion? Web forums aren't
stupid. They are a popular tool for discussion on the internet. If you are
too stupid to use them, that's not my problem. I am obviously too stupid to
use mailing lists with a hundred mails a day, though.
Here's the deal:
-We've got a mailing list, continue using it if you can handle it.
-We've got a temporary forum here:
http://forums.makeopensource.com/index.php Use it if you like forums. I hope
we can move the content over to an official forum once it's created.

There is really no need for further forums vs ML discussion. Both work, in
different ways, parallel. The discussion could be continued in the forum,
then at least the mailing list stays clean of spam.

Ortwin
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Re: email vs forum (was Re: OK, the forum is coming..)

2007-07-26 Thread Ortwin Regel

You are talking about flat, web forum style threading, though. What he wants
is tree style threading like in the ML archives, Slashdot comments etc.

Ortwin

On 7/26/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Um...  That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at
all.  You're
 solution is Just don't use Gmail.  Duh!.  That's not a valid answer to
my
 question.  Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid
response:
 use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via POP.

 I use Gmail.  Accept it.  Now, if you had a Greasemonkey script that
made
 Gmail thread the messages, that would be acceptable.
Threaded view in Gmail client works fine ( running under Firefox 1.5
). There are few messages here and there which jump out of thread.
Maybe you should check your settings or write to google.

regards
VK
PS:- I am also using Gmail.

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Re: email vs forum

2007-07-25 Thread Ortwin Regel

On the other hand, via email you load everything while on a forum you choose
what to view.
The screen size argument also doesn't work too well as the Neo has 640*480
which is plenty and an official forum would obviously make sure to fit well
into that resolution.

How about continuing the discussion in the forum? :P

Ortwin

On 7/25/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not trying to prove something -- trying to give benefit of long
experience
 in similar situations.  Email is substantially more efficient, because
it is
 intrinsically more powerful.  For example:

8) Staying in touch directly with the community from my OpenMoko
phone in a year using an expensive GPRS connection:

- E-Mail: Loading everything via POP3 or even better compressed UUCP
  on my phone, reading with my favorite mail client that suits the
  display. Uses minimum bandwidth and I can cut the connection after
  loading mail. Cheap.
- Web forum: Suffer with the web browser on a forum design not
  suitable to the small display. Using tons of bandwidth for every
  request, staying online all the time. Really expensive.

Sebastian


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Re: Why you won't find me in the forum much

2007-07-25 Thread Ortwin Regel

On 7/26/07, Mathew Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 So there is still no forum solution that I know of that allows me to
 download the full content of all posts I haven't read yet, and read them

 on a random small device (e.g. a Treo650, or a Nokia N800, or a Sharp
 Zaurus) that supports offline email reading and replying.


Sounds like a good nitch to hit.  I would be interested in a program like
that I wonder what it would take to make one?




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A phpBB addon accomplishing that might be useful for quite a few people.
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Re: Re Multitouch

2007-07-24 Thread Ortwin Regel

And how do you scroll?

On 7/24/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote :

 An regardin is multi touch really that awesome?  I
 think yes of course, but maybe not in a so little
 screen and surelly it is not worth the trouble of
 re-coding a lot of stuff to make it work.

It has its uses, the important thing is to design the interface of this
phone to be useable with thumbs. There's interface elements which are too
small at present. I also dislike the Start menu too (too much like Windows
Mobile).

Multitouch is fiddly on the move, you're reliant on being able to hold the
device and use two thumbs or hold in one hand then use two fingers of the
same hand.

Apple mainly use it for zooming photos. You can do similar with one
finger, hold your thumb down on the centre of the touch screen and slide
outwards to zoom in. Do the same but touch edge of screen and slide finger
to middle of screen to zoom out.

The above has the advantage of being possible one handed.

---
G O Jones





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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-23 Thread Ortwin Regel

The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be
another means of communication from the dark times of the internet which
most developers, old people and nerds might love. It wouldn't help in any
way to expand the community, though.
We are NOT looking for a way to replace the mailing list. We want to ADD
another channel of communication that not everyone has to like but would
attract new people.

Ortwin

On 7/23/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


What about creating a google group ?
You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it
as a forum.
Everybody is happy.
Mickael.

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Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?

2007-07-22 Thread Ortwin Regel

On 7/21/07, Mark Eichin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On 20 Jul 2007, at 22:25, Ortwin Regel wrote:

 Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux
 experience was that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to
 something that didn't work and wasn't able to change it back and
 get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need this phone and I need it now.
 It's the phone I've been waiting for for about four years. Pretty
 much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what would happen
 if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if it
 takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to
 wait any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and
 sell my GTA 01 or give it to one of my favourite Palm game
 developers if I'm feeling generous.
 I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)

 Ortwin Regel

 No, you want the phone. :P

 At the moment it's not a fully working device, it will do very
 little. It will be frustrating to have a phone which does nothing. If
 you haven't ever had to flash a phone or use recovery methods to
 repair a bricked phone then you'll end up with a paperweight.

 I've not done much embedded development for a while, my background is
 in C development. I started on the Amiga and wrote some MIDI software
 such as MIDI drivers, audio output plugins. I did embedded
 development for a year, developing firmware for network hardware.
 Trust me, even I am a little nervous about having a Neo and not being
 able to contribute. So if you're not a developer you'll feel even
 more frustrated and impatient.

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This isn't early adopter - this is *pre* adopter - I'd suggest that
the 02 model is going to be early adopter, realistically...

I ordered one because I think I'm ready to do something useful with
it, because
  * I've already done some of the relevant code in python on my Nokia
6630 with an external GPS
  * I've done from-scratch build and installs for the Gumstix
  * embedded gcc/g++ used to be my full-time job (anyone remember Cygnus?
:-)
  * I've written code on an iCreate too
  * I've used an oscilliscope within the last 6 months...

Remember that the one recent live demo we've seen (on youtube, that
user's group meeting) involved several iterations of killing and
restarting daemons from a remote session on a laptop, and answering a
call with AT commands; while we *hope* it's a little more solid than
that, I'm expecting that to be part of the debugging to be done in the
first batch.

Remember also that this one doesn't have 802.11, so until you build
yourself a power+usbwifi lashup, it won't really count as a PDA either
(why yes, after about 2005 if it doesn't have net it's not really a PDA
:-)

(I'm also expecting to pick up a cheap pay-as-you go SIM for operating
the FIC with, since I actually still need to call and SMS people :-)

There's also some gadget-lust going on - I'd probably buy this phone
*without* a software install, if it had sufficiently documented
hardware, just because (esp. as an Amateur Radio operator) it's the
level of control I believe I *should* have of a piece of hardware that
I'm paying for.

It's pretty clear from this list that there are a lot of wildly
varying fantasies built up around the phone, but I don't think
anything we've heard officially that suggests that anyone for whom a
command line is scary is going to get any value out of it...

_Mark_ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Herd Of Kittens

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Don't worry, I know exactly what I'm getting into. I am not absolutely
certain that I can handle it but I'm willing to try.



On 7/21/07, Jeff Rush [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Ortwin, with such strong feelings, I need this phone and I need it now,
you
must have certain specific requirements for putting it to use.  Certainly
we
all have our wish list with lots of far out ideas but what do you need to
phone to do first, to meet these four-year-pent-up demands, from before
the
OpenMoko even existed?  Basically you're speaking as someone frustrated
with
something in particular.

 I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)

Certainly I'll help.  I'm hoping to produce a series of screencasts about
the
phone.  My first, just an overview for those wondering what the heck an
OpenMoko is that I gave last week at the local DFW Unix Users group, can
be
found at:

  http://www.showmedo.com/videos/video?name=104fromSeriesID=104

I'm planning a talk on the hardware, and another on the underlying
software
architecture.  In my mind, I divide the audience into those who

Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-22 Thread Ortwin Regel

I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad
experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date.
What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to
move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers?
Maybe we should try to get a response on how far off an official forum is.
I could do some basic moderating I guess.

Ortwin

On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.

i think is good:

- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations said by other people..

So i'm going to create a forum.

Now, i can set up the forum but i'd need people who want to moderate,
and some graphics suggestions.

Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.

If anyone is doing/wants to do the same thing, please advice me (in ml
or private address); otherwise, who loves forum follows me. i'll wait
some days before start.

Valerio, Italy

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Re: OK, the forum is coming..

2007-07-22 Thread Ortwin Regel

I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a
mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old
school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of
the strong opinion that we should go with a flat forum for accessibility.

Ortwin

On 7/23/07, Henryk Plötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Moin,

Am Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:31:55 + (UTC) schrieb Valerio Bruno:

 I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?!
 Anyway...

Yes, in my (and probably Sebastian's) part of the Internet, phpBB does
not count as a threaded forum.

Based on http://aktuell.de.selfhtml.org/artikel/gedanken/foren-boards/
(sorry, it's in German, but there are clarifying pictures) I'd make a
distinction between a forum, which is inherently threaded (not in the
phpBB-sense), and a board, which is flat (like phpBB).

A thread in a forum captures the more natural way of discussion: someone
says something, multiple people reply, maybe focusing on different
aspects of the original post, the discussion might drift away in more
than one dimension, sub-aspects get discussed, maybe even the topic
changes completely:
(A, B, C are people; 1,2,3... are aspects of the subject)

A says 1, 2, 3
  B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4
C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post)
A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post)
  C responds to 1, brings up 5
A responds to 5
  C responds to 5 (from A's post)
etc...

Graph-theoretically speaking: Real[tm] threads are trees. (Well,
actually, from a real-world point of view they should be directed
acyclic graphs, meaning that one could reply to more than one posting
at a time. But that just adds all sorts of headaches and is difficult
to visualize. It's like multiple inheritance in the programming
language of your choice. But I digress ...)

A 'thread' in a board, like phpBB, is inherently flat, one-dimensional,
restricting. There's always only exactly one subject being discussed,
and it's harder to cherry-pick the aspects that you want to reply to.
Especially if you want to reply to an aspect that has been brought up
several posts ago:

A says 1, 2, 3
B responds to 1, 2, brings up 4
C responds to 1, brings up 5
C responds to 1, 4 (from B's post)
A responds to 5
A responds to 2, 4 (independent of C's post)
C responds to 5 (from A's post)

Trains of thought that ought to belong together are separated by this
structure, and completely unrelated aspects are forced to stand
together.
And now imagine being a new person D and wanting to say something about
aspect 3. That's why phpBB postings basically must make use of these
@poster A forms, and even that doesn't help too much if the posting
being replied to was 30 postings (read: 3 pages) ago.

There's a reason that the 'classical' discussion systems (usenet and
mailing-lists) model real threads.

Oh, and yes, some boards offer proper threads as an optional view. But
that's hard, because replying in a plain-board style loses information
about the intent of the poster. It's easy to transform a forum view
into a board view by just throwing the who responded to
whom-information away, but it's impossible the other way round.

And finally: Should the discussion really be one-dimensional and flat,
well that's just a special case of a tree and no problem at all for
real forums.

--
Henryk Plötz
Grüße aus Berlin
~ Help Microsoft fight software piracy: Give Linux to a friend today! ~

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Re: Replying to digests Was: Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 48

2007-07-20 Thread Ortwin Regel

Seems like we need the right software then. http://gbatemp.net , running IPB
Portal v2 ( http://www.invisionpower.com/ ), does what you describe pretty
reliably as far as I can tell. Don't know if any other board software has
that functionality.

I find the hostality towards forums here pretty astounding... Forums should
not replace the mailing list but complement it. They would take some load
off the mailing list. If the list grows any bigger, I will have to cancel my
subscription, because I can't read through all this stuff anymore. The great
thing about forums is that they designed for selective reading. You only
read what interests you. It doesn't push all the crap to your inbox, you go
and get what you need.

Ortwin

On 7/20/07, Knight Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Thu, Jul 19, 2007 at 05:44:29PM -0400, Jon Radel wrote:
 [Entire digest that has nothing at all to do with the above that both
 you sent out again removed.]

 Spam the whole mailing list?  Ah, at least you're forthright and know
 yourself well...

 Ever occur to you two forum fans that the mailing list would work better
 if you used it right?  Little matters such as:

 * If you're starting a new discussion thread, don't reply to an existing
 e-mail; it throws off the people who use thread-aware MUAs.

 * If you're replying to something in a digest cut out all the stuff
 you're not replying to and fix up the subject line.

 * TRIM!

 * TRIM SOME MORE!

 * If you're sending a Me Too reply, TRIM YET SOME MORE!

 (See Mathew Davis's follow up for a beautiful example of trimming. :-)

I agree. My main problem with a forum is that all the ones I've have
serious deficiencies, the biggest one being that it's really easy to lose
new messages if you don't dedicate a block of time to reading all new
messages (Sometimes in just one forum, sometimes site-wide). I have yet
to see a forum software that doesn't mark them all read if you have an
emergency in the middle and have to come back later. For some people
that's fine, but I prefer that my e-mail box stores a flag in each
message and lets me read on my own time.

As for the rest, I concur. Good netiquette goes a long way. Too bad it's
a dying art.

-KW

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Re: Significant Numbers of Non-Developers?

2007-07-20 Thread Ortwin Regel

Order #1833 here and not a developer at all. My last Linux experience was
that I changed the screen resolution in Suse 9 to something that didn't work
and wasn't able to change it back and get back to the GUI. :P Still, I need
this phone and I need it now. It's the phone I've been waiting for for about
four years. Pretty much since I got my Tapwave Zodiac and wondered what
would happen if it was also a phone. I love to be an early adopter, even if
it takes time for stuff to get usable. This is just too fascinating to wait
any longer. I'll probably buy a GTA 02 in October, too, and sell my GTA 01
or give it to one of my favourite Palm game developers if I'm feeling
generous.
I hope people will help me if I'm stuck in some scary command line. ;)

Ortwin Regel
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Re: community Digest, Vol 36, Issue 45

2007-07-19 Thread Ortwin Regel

Seconded!
Please open a forum.openmoko.org ! I'd love to post some spontaneous ideas,
discuss stuff, ask and answer small questions etc. but I often don't want to
spam the whole mailing list with it.

Ortwin

On 7/19/07, Ryan Lozier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Is there an openmoko forum? I am really sick of reading this mailing list
for the last year to find subjects im interested in. If there is one, please
someone point me to it, and im not talking about the wiki. I mean, where
would someone go if they had a question about a particular function of the
phone or one of the softwares? This mailinglist? If there is no forum yet,
we need one.
ryan.

On 7/19/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Send community mailing list submissions to
community@lists.openmoko.org

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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 You can reach the person managing the list at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of community digest...

 Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Daniel Robinson)
   2. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Peter Trapp)
   3. Re: projects of interest? (Shakthi Kannan)
   4. Operator Acceptance Testing (Shakthi Kannan)
   5. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Ian Stirling)
   6. Re: Possible App - Security (Christian St?ble)
   7. Re: Possible App - Security (Henryk Pl?tz)
   8. Re: Shipping, Billing, etc (Rodolphe Ortalo)


 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To:  community@lists.openmoko.org
 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:15:28 -0700
 Subject: Re: Shipping, Billing, etc
 I had some concerns about this also.  There has been very little info
 coming out from OpenMoko about the number of units of each type that have
 been ordered by developers and how many are available.  Moreover, there
 hasn't been any information about where we are in the queue.  All that has
 been said is that you get one email, then you get another email, then you
 get your dev unit.

 Do they expect me to keep hitting the refresh button like some
 blue-haired lady playing the nickel slots?


 On 7/19/07, Giles Jones  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Benjamin Flanagin  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote :
 
   The limited number of neo's have got me worried that I might not be
  in
   the first batch. Have anyone been charged for the device yet? I'm
  ready
   to learn the ways of Openmoko Ninjitsu.
  
 
  One person has confirmed on the list that their order has been
  processed.
 
  There's a few factors, first there's two colours. Secondly there's two
  kits, the phone only and the phone + dev board kits.
 
  Maybe the white and orange versions will be in more supply?
 
  ---
  G O Jones
 
 
 
 
 
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 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Peter Trapp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To:
 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:39:42 +0200
 Subject: Re: Shipping, Billing, etc
 I'm not concerned about the number of units. It's more about the
 delivery date. On

 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ:

 Are there enough phones for the number of orders? Will FIC produce
 another GTA01 batch if needed?
  Of course. Please note that there is a lead time of four to six weeks.



 I don't want to wait another 6 weeks (~ End of August) to buy GTA02   2
 month later...




 Daniel Robinson wrote:
  I had some concerns about this also.  There has been very little info
  coming out from OpenMoko about the number of units of each type that
  have been ordered by developers and how many are available.  Moreover,
  there hasn't been any information about where we are in the queue.
  All that has been said is that you get one email, then you get another
  email, then you get your dev unit.
 
  Do they expect me to keep hitting the refresh button like some
  blue-haired lady playing the nickel slots?
 
 
  On 7/19/07, *Giles Jones*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Benjamin Flanagin  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote :
 
   The limited number of neo's have got me worried that I might not

  be in
   the first batch. Have anyone been charged for the device yet?
  I'm ready
   to learn the ways of Openmoko Ninjitsu.
  
 
  One person has confirmed on the list that their order has been
  processed.
 
  There's a few factors, first there's two colours. Secondly there's
  two kits, the phone only and the phone + dev board kits.
 
  Maybe the white and orange versions will be in more supply?
 
  ---
  G O Jones
 
 
 
 
 
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