Re: Broken Freerunner - repairable?

[omcomali . rhn]

On Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:45:51 +0200
Patryk Benderz  wrote:

> [cut]
> > True! You have to open it, unplug each internal cable (display unit,
> > maybe something more) and clean everything with alcohol, flux remover or
> > something similar.
> While using alcohol on LCD screen be careful. AFAIR LCD module is
> one-piece type, which means it is not designed for disassembly, so if
> water got between layers of LCD module, it might be difficult to clean
> it. Also LCD is most sensitive for high temperature. First clean all
> electronics, and check if that helps. If not, then start cleaning LCD.
> Just search this list archives. There were many topics about
> disassembling LCD module.
> 

Thanks for the info, I cleaned the little residue that was inside, but it 
didn't help.
I'm going to try alcohol on the mainboard soon, but for the LCD I might go to 
some phone repair shop... Didn't know that LCD was sensitive to temperature, so 
you might have just saved me trouble :)

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Broken Freerunner - repairable?

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 06:43:10 +0200
Hrabosh  wrote:

> omcomali@porcupinefactory.org píše v St 03. 08. 2011 v 19:04 +0200:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > Last week I was unfortunate enough to have my Freerunner submerged in a 
> > lake for a short moment. While I took out the battery immediately, it 
> > doesn't quite work any more.
> > It spent about 10 secs underwater, and after a few days of drying, it seems 
> > to boot properly both from NAND menu and plain power-button method.
> 
> How were you drying it? 
> 
> 
> Hrabosh

I left it on the windowsill with battery removed (but was too afraid to open 
the case). Do yoy think it was enough?

rhn

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Re: Broken Freerunner - repairable?

[omcomali . rhn]

Thanks for your answer, Lukas!

Now I suspect that SHR-Today worked better because it's much darker than Illume 
desktop. Similar things happened to me when working on monochrome LCD displays 
with broken capacitors.

rhn

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:17:07 +0200
Lukas Märdian  wrote:

> Hey!
> 
> As developer of SHR-Today/idle_screen I can say, that idle_screen is
> just a fullscreen window above the illume desktop. =>
> It shouldn't change any mode of the screen/Shouldn't treat the screen
> any other than the illume desktop.
> 
> BR,
> Lukas
> 
> On 03.08.2011 19:56, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> > On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:26:04 +0200
> > Ed Kapitein  wrote:
> > 
> >> On 08/03/2011 07:04 PM, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Last week I was unfortunate enough to have my Freerunner submerged in a 
> >>> lake for a short moment. While I took out the battery immediately, it 
> >>> doesn't quite work any more.
> >>> It spent about 10 secs underwater, and after a few days of drying, it 
> >>> seems to boot properly both from NAND menu and plain power-button method.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is, the screen goes gradually white at some points during 
> >>> boot (but not on the SHR-Today screen, where the screen shows distorted 
> >>> copies of the screen). I tried reflashing a newer SHR version, but 
> >>> apparently the drawing methods are still the same.
> >>>
> >>> There's a video of the boot process here: 
> >>> http://porcupinefactory.org/data/brokenFR.avi (5 MB).
> >>> After the video ends, the screen goes white again. It doesn't show NAND 
> >>> boot menu which works fine.
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone point me to which replaceable part may be broken? Is it the 
> >>> whole screen module that needs to be replaced?
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> rhn
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Openmoko community mailing list
> >>> community@lists.openmoko.org
> >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Hi Rhn,
> >>
> >> It doesn't seem to be that broken, it boots, but it shows no splash screen.
> >> Did you try to leave it on for 10/15 minutes and see what happens?
> >> The freerunner has three (?) splash screens, did you try to reflash them
> >> as well?
> >> [1]
> >>
> >> I hope the FR will come to live again.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Ed
> >>
> >> PS
> >> i was not able to reflash my splash screens, so if it doesn't work as
> >> per wiki, don't dispair. if you are able to reflash the splash screen,
> >> please correct the wiki if it was incorrect.
> >>
> >>
> >> [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen
> > 
> > Hi Ed,
> > 
> > Actually, it boots through the kernel and into Illume. I'm quite sure it's 
> > not related to any splash screens - I could switch between SHR-Today 
> > (visible) and Illume (broken).
> > I suspect that the screen (?) reacts differently to different video modes.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> > 
> > ___
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> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> 
> 

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Re: Broken Freerunner - repairable?

[omcomali . rhn]

On Wed, 03 Aug 2011 19:26:04 +0200
Ed Kapitein  wrote:

> On 08/03/2011 07:04 PM, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Last week I was unfortunate enough to have my Freerunner submerged in a 
> > lake for a short moment. While I took out the battery immediately, it 
> > doesn't quite work any more.
> > It spent about 10 secs underwater, and after a few days of drying, it seems 
> > to boot properly both from NAND menu and plain power-button method.
> >
> > The problem is, the screen goes gradually white at some points during boot 
> > (but not on the SHR-Today screen, where the screen shows distorted copies 
> > of the screen). I tried reflashing a newer SHR version, but apparently the 
> > drawing methods are still the same.
> >
> > There's a video of the boot process here: 
> > http://porcupinefactory.org/data/brokenFR.avi (5 MB).
> > After the video ends, the screen goes white again. It doesn't show NAND 
> > boot menu which works fine.
> >
> > Can anyone point me to which replaceable part may be broken? Is it the 
> > whole screen module that needs to be replaced?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> Hi Rhn,
> 
> It doesn't seem to be that broken, it boots, but it shows no splash screen.
> Did you try to leave it on for 10/15 minutes and see what happens?
> The freerunner has three (?) splash screens, did you try to reflash them
> as well?
> [1]
> 
> I hope the FR will come to live again.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ed
> 
> PS
> i was not able to reflash my splash screens, so if it doesn't work as
> per wiki, don't dispair. if you are able to reflash the splash screen,
> please correct the wiki if it was incorrect.
> 
> 
> [1] http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Splash_screen

Hi Ed,

Actually, it boots through the kernel and into Illume. I'm quite sure it's not 
related to any splash screens - I could switch between SHR-Today (visible) and 
Illume (broken).
I suspect that the screen (?) reacts differently to different video modes.

Cheers,
rhn

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Broken Freerunner - repairable?

[omcomali . rhn]

Hi all,

Last week I was unfortunate enough to have my Freerunner submerged in a lake 
for a short moment. While I took out the battery immediately, it doesn't quite 
work any more.
It spent about 10 secs underwater, and after a few days of drying, it seems to 
boot properly both from NAND menu and plain power-button method.

The problem is, the screen goes gradually white at some points during boot (but 
not on the SHR-Today screen, where the screen shows distorted copies of the 
screen). I tried reflashing a newer SHR version, but apparently the drawing 
methods are still the same.

There's a video of the boot process here: 
http://porcupinefactory.org/data/brokenFR.avi (5 MB).
After the video ends, the screen goes white again. It doesn't show NAND boot 
menu which works fine.

Can anyone point me to which replaceable part may be broken? Is it the whole 
screen module that needs to be replaced?

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1

[omcomali . rhn]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:32:50 +0100
Thomas Zimmermann  wrote:

> Am Dienstag 14 Dezember 2010, 19:15:37 schrieb 
> omcomali@porcupinefactory.org:
> > Fortunately, only root folder's metadata were lost. Everything important
> > was recovered and backed up :)
> > 
> > More tests: the pim database, keyboards and dictionaries worked after I
> > found the correct paths. To replace pim, I stopped phoneui, put it in the
> > right place, started phoneui again, worked great.
> > 
> > After 2 days of uptime, something broke and neither wlan or modem work. I
> > tried disabling and enabling the modem (it was pretty common for it to
> > fail like that with my SIM), but the logs say something about operation
> > not permitted while modem is suspended. When trying to access wifi via the
> > Connectivity dialog or fsoraw the respective program freezes for a few
> > minutes, and I'm getting some DBus timeouts.
> > 
> > That's it for today.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> 
> Can you provide some logs about this issue?
> 
> Regards
> Thomas
> 

Sorry, I didn't save them, since the logfiles I know about had only the few 
entries I told you about. When it happens next time, I'm going to do that.

rhn

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:37:02 +0100
omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> 
> After a reboot, the filesystem on my SD card (4 GB Verbatim class 4) lost its 
> shape, requiring a destructive fsck, so this might be the end of testing for 
> me.
> 
> cheers,
> rhn
> 

Fortunately, only root folder's metadata were lost. Everything important was 
recovered and backed up :)

More tests: the pim database, keyboards and dictionaries worked after I found 
the correct paths.
To replace pim, I stopped phoneui, put it in the right place, started phoneui 
again, worked great.

After 2 days of uptime, something broke and neither wlan or modem work. I tried 
disabling and enabling the modem (it was pretty common for it to fail like that 
with my SIM), but the logs say something about operation not permitted while 
modem is suspended. When trying to access wifi via the Connectivity dialog or 
fsoraw the respective program freezes for a few minutes, and I'm getting some 
DBus timeouts.

That's it for today.

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sun, 12 Dec 2010 14:50:43 +0100
Thomas Zimmermann  wrote:

> Am Sonntag 12 Dezember 2010, 13:54:33 schrieb 
> omcomali@porcupinefactory.org:
> > Hey,
> > The moment I read this email, I forced myself to do a reinstall.
> > So far, so good. The switch from Illume to Illume2 was a bit confusing, but
> > I got used to the interface. The first impression: it's so fast! Scrolling
> > is finally smooth! And it doesn't have problems with my SIM card any more
> > (old shr-testing always complained that no sim card is present but
> > sometimes managed to start GSM). The speed after 1 day of usage is rather
> > good.
> > 
> > Now on to the bugs:
> > TangoGPS was having trouble displaying the correct time from GPS the first
> > time I ran it. It stayed at ~epoch, while position was more or less
> > correct. The top shelf and home screen clocks don't update after resume (I
> > noticed this only today, after the alarm clock set off), until the minute
> > changes. There are some trouble with resizing windows properly when a new
> > window is shown and the keyboard was visible. The keyboard hides, but the
> > new window is not fully sized. Try showing the keyboard and pressing AUX.
> > Eve crashes with illegal instruction.
> > 
> > Soon I will restore my custom settings (PIM, maps, keyboards) and report
> > again.
> > 
> > Thanks for restoring SHR-t to life!
> > 
> > rhn
> 
> The bug with the keyboard resizing is known too, i forgot to mention this. 
> Bug 
> it is just ugly and i don't know if i will switch to a newer E just for this, 
> because newer E means often more new Bugs :)
> 
> For eve and ewebkit i have to take a look there were some more problems and i 
> thought i included the working version :)
> 
> For the other bugs i will have a look too in the next days.
> 
> Thomas
> 

Some more bugs for you.

ventura doesn't install:
r...@om-gta02 /media/card # opkg install ventura
Installing ventura (0.2+svnr16-1.4) to root...
Downloading 
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/ipk//armv4t/ventura_0.2+svnr16-1.4_armv4t.ipk.
Installing edbus (2:0.5.0.060+svnr48935-r1.4) to root...
Downloading 
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/ipk//armv4t/edbus_0.5.0.060+svnr48935-r1.4_armv4t.ipk.
Installing efreet (2:0.5.0.060+svnr48935-r3.4) to root...
Downloading 
http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/ipk//armv4t/efreet_0.5.0.060+svnr48935-r3.4_armv4t.ipk.
Configuring edbus.
Collected errors:
 * check_data_file_clashes: Package efreet wants to install file 
/usr/lib/efreet/efreet_desktop_cache_create
But that file is already provided by package  * libefreet1
 * opkg_install_cmd: Cannot install package ventura.


After a reboot, the filesystem on my SD card (4 GB Verbatim class 4) lost its 
shape, requiring a destructive fsck, so this might be the end of testing for me.

cheers,
rhn

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Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 13:47:16 +0100
Thomas Zimmermann  wrote:

> Hi,
> i want announce the RC1 for the upcomming SHR-testing release in 2011.
> 
> http://build.shr-project.org/tests/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/
> 
> So please test these images and report the bugs so that we can release a 
> really working SHR-testing.
> 
> The image is based on the 2010.12 release of OpenEmbedded and has latest 
> versions of E, SHR and FSO apps.
> 
> Since last testing a lot has changed:
> * Switch to illume2 as illume(1) isn't maintained anymore
> * Switch from ogsmd to much faster fsogsmd
> * Switch to 2.6.34 kernel (without KMS because this causes some problems with 
> SD-cards for some SHR-u users)
> * Everything faster ;)
> * And much more i don't remember
> 
> Known Bugs:
> * There is a problem with the autostart of applications in E, because of that 
> the shr_elm_softkey is not always started.
> * The wizard is only working if you wait until FSO is fully started (When FSO 
> is started the display started dimming). If you don't want to wait that long 
> you can exit the wizard with the "Exit" button and do the configurations in 
> shr-settings afterwards.
> 
> Untested:
> * All feed packages not in the full image.
> * All day usage (so GPRS/GPS after several suspends) 
> 
> Because of a missunderstanding this SHR-testing version was synced to the 
> normal shr-testing feed and some users have already upgraded theire old SHR-
> testing to this version. We reverted this for now and moved the old SHR-
> testing files back in it's place.
> 
> Those and all Tester should change the package feeds from:
> http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/ipk/...
> to:
> http://build.shr-project.org/tests/shr-testing/ipk/...
> to get the corresponding feed packages.
> 
> An upgrade from older SHR-testing seems to be broken, so for first tests you 
> should flash a new image.
> If you backup your homefolder and copy it back then you should remove ~/.e 
> from this backup as the shr-wizard won't run if this folder exists. And the 
> wizard is responsible for the creation of some important files.
> 
> The future plans are to release another RC this year and then release the 
> final 
> image in the first week of 2011.
> 
> I hope that i said everything and a lot of people will test these images :)
> 
> Regards
> Thomas
> 

Hey,
The moment I read this email, I forced myself to do a reinstall.
So far, so good. The switch from Illume to Illume2 was a bit confusing, but I 
got used to the interface. The first impression: it's so fast! Scrolling is 
finally smooth! And it doesn't have problems with my SIM card any more (old 
shr-testing always complained that no sim card is present but sometimes managed 
to start GSM). The speed after 1 day of usage is rather good.

Now on to the bugs:
TangoGPS was having trouble displaying the correct time from GPS the first time 
I ran it. It stayed at ~epoch, while position was more or less correct.
The top shelf and home screen clocks don't update after resume (I noticed this 
only today, after the alarm clock set off), until the minute changes.
There are some trouble with resizing windows properly when a new window is 
shown and the keyboard was visible. The keyboard hides, but the new window is 
not fully sized. Try showing the keyboard and pressing AUX.
Eve crashes with illegal instruction.

Soon I will restore my custom settings (PIM, maps, keyboards) and report again.

Thanks for restoring SHR-t to life!

rhn

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Coto - a clone of openalchemist

[omcomali . rhn]

Hey,

Lately, that evil game took many precious hours of my life again, so I decided 
to refresh an old project of mine to be able to play it on the Freerunner.
3 years ago I wrote a clone of openalchemist in Python + GTK (openalchemist 
used way too much CPU), but it used keyboard only. This week I cleaned up the 
code somewhat and made it compatible with a touchscreen.

I couldn't be bothered making the sizes proper (packing widgets properly), but 
the game itself is playable (but the lack of animations makes it more difficult 
to understand).

The screen is split into 4 parts touch-wise: upper third rotates the pair, 
bottom part drops it, left and right parts move it to the side.
Arrows work, F5 is "undo".

A screenshot of a game that will soon be over:
http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/db5977aa398daa44f52d1e7a3ab87368.png

I hope someone likes it!

Cheers,
rhn


coto.py
Description: Binary data
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Re: When is the next and more powerful openmoko releasing

[omcomali . rhn]

I might be the other person who likes the bezel. It's a little too close to the 
screen, but it prevents the screen from accidental scratches and misclicks. The 
resistive screen is quite soft, and I'd be afraid to put it face-down on uneven 
surfaces or put it in my pocket in fear that the screen changes shape 
permanently.
If it was a capacitative touchscreen, I would prefer no bezel.

To answer the original question: I think I wouldn't buy a phone without a 
physical keyboard again. My main phone use is messages, so tactile feedback 
makes me many times faster and less frustrated.

Cheers,
rhn

On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:14:35 -0400
Benjamin Deering  wrote:

> I would pre-order in the $300 us range.  500 euro is a little steep for 
> a board with no case, speakers, touch screen, etc.
> 
> It seems like the biggest problems on the GTA-02 were all with closed 
> modules (wifi, glamo, calypso).  It sounds like a UMTS module would have 
> to be closed, but if it were loosely coupled to the device (4 usb traces 
> and an antenna) I think we could work with it.
> 
> Since my FR is getting better all the time (2.6.32 speedups have been 
> great, thanks) I can wait quite a while for a replacement.  I can't 
> imaging using a closed phone now.
> 
> I may be the only person who likes the screen bezel on the freerunner.  
> I have taken my phone on canoeing and backpacking trips just wrapped in 
> a dry-bag and only cracked one screen (which is how I ended up with a 
> second phone).
> 
> As for expansion ports, an internal usb hub and some solder pads would 
> probably meet my needs.  I would think the new device would need a 
> second usb controller anyways (one in host mode for UMTS and internal 
> expansion, one in gadget/host mode with an external connector).
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 08/15/2010 06:06 AM, Ed Kapitein wrote:
> > Hi Nikolaus,
> >
> > I would prefer pre orders to finance the next FR.
> > and with a discount for the pre-order i think it is possible to raise
> > the money for the development.
> > lets say 400 Euro with pre-order and 500 euro without pre ordering?
> >
> > I might be one of the people who will preorder.
> > ( or just buy a 50 euro nokia... :-) )
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Ed
> >
> > On 08/13/2010 07:18 PM, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Am 13.08.2010 um 12:35 schrieb Neil Brown:
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> On Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0200
> >>> "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  Am 12.08.2010 um 14:12 schrieb RANJAN:
> 
> 
>   
> > Hi,
> >
> > When is the next and more powerful openmoko (capable of seamless 3D 
> > video and faster processor) is going to be released???
> >
> >
>  Assume, you could get a motherboard upgrade board that fits into the 
>  Freerunner (or Neo1973) case. Based on the TI OMAP3 SoC (OMAP3530 or 
>  DM3730) and UMTS.
> 
>  Let me ask two questions to everybody:
>  * How long could you be willing to wait for it to really become 
>  available?
>  * How much would you think you could afford to pay for such a board?
> 
> 
>   
> >>> Is there a serious possibility of this?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I wasn't open enough, intentionally :) Yes, there is a serious possibility.
> >>
> >> The Openmoko Beagle Hybrid Board is a first step for those who want to be 
> >> early participants of this new era.
> >>
> >> In addition, we (a small project team in Munich, Germany) have mostly 
> >> finished our homework (i.e. doing prototypes and experiments like the OM 
> >> Beagle Hybrid, doing PCB layout) to be sure that it *can* be done. Really 
> >> building such boards will still cost a significant amount of money (for 
> >> paying components, professional PCB manufacturing and SMD soldering) and 
> >> time (therefore: my question how long you would wait).
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> I'm willing to wait a couple of years at least.  And the 500 Euro number 
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>
> >> It will definitively not take several years.
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> people are throwing around seems OK.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> To finance the next phase, we are thinking about asking for donations or 
> >> to hold an auction for the first 5 or 10 prototype units. What would you 
> >> think of such an approach?
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >>> Would this be re-using the case, display and touch screen and replacing
> >>> everything else?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Yes, that is the idea. More information (e.g. complete feature list) and 
> >> openness (as suggested by arne anka) is to come soon. Please watch out for 
> >> announcements in the next couple of weeks...
> >>
> >> Nikolaus
> >> ___
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> >> community@lists.openmoko.org
> >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  
> >
> > ___

Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 17:53:45 +0200
Kevin Zuber  wrote:

> >
> > Well, you can't :)
> >
> > I read your other post. To make it all work, you need to:
> > a) rectify your image - there are services like 
> > http://labs.metacarta.com/rectifier/ , but be careful, they publish your 
> > maps by default. They are open source, but difficult to set up. This will 
> > calibrate the scanned map with OSM overlay.
> > b) find the coordinates of the edges - should not be very hard
> > c) modify my set of scripts to accept the rectified image and edges' 
> > coordinates - I'll have to take a look at it if you need help here
> > d) run the script
> 
> Ok I make progress. What I meant with "gps calibration" is Image
> Rectification[1] as you described but I didn't know about this before
> :).
> 
> Shouldn't be the geo and coordinate information inside the GeoTiff
> Image after rectification? So step b) may be skipped?
> 
> Your script require an osm file or zoom-12, so I just need a way to
> convert a geotiff file to osm, right?
> 
> [1] 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_rectification#Geographic_information_system
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoTIFF
> 

My script doesn't read GeoTIFF, so you still need step b). It takes raw OSM 
data and converts it to image, so it does one step too much. You can't convert 
it the other way round, so the script can't be used without modification. The 
rendering and svg->png conversion must be removed.

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Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 12:31:14 +0200
Kevin Zuber  wrote:

> > I can help you with the splitting part. A few weeks ago I wrote a script to 
> > render OSM data to svg, convert it to png and split the files into 
> > directories. It renders a specific subset of OSM data, but it can be used 
> > to split PNG images.
> >
> > You would probably be interested in the most basic version which contains 
> > only files I made or moified [1], but if you want to see the whole thing 
> > running, check out the version with external tools in it [2].
> >
> > There's a small readme in it, but I'll be happy to help if it's not enough.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> >
> > [1] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/tilerender.tar.gz
> > [2] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/osma+tile-render.tar.gz
> 
> That's really great!
> I'm really overwhelmed that this exist already, so I will have a look
> into this now :).
> Thank you!
> How can I achieve the gps calibration of my file with your script?
> 

Well, you can't :)

I read your other post. To make it all work, you need to:
a) rectify your image - there are services like 
http://labs.metacarta.com/rectifier/ , but be careful, they publish your maps 
by default. They are open source, but difficult to set up. This will calibrate 
the scanned map with OSM overlay.
b) find the coordinates of the edges - should not be very hard
c) modify my set of scripts to accept the rectified image and edges' 
coordinates - I'll have to take a look at it if you need help here
d) run the script

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Create personal Maps for tangogps or similar

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:16:31 +0200
Kevin Zuber  wrote:

> Dear Openmoko Community,
> 
> I want to create some personal maps for viewing on the freerunner GPS
> application (like tangogps).
> 
> All available maps (open streetmap and google maps etc.) does not meet
> my demands, so I want to create one myself.
> The map I need shows the depth of a lake. (In Germany it's called a
> "Tiefenkarte" - "depth map")
> 
> An example can be found here:
> http://www.mueritz-fisch.de/downloads/Tiefenkarten/Müritz.pdf
> or
> http://www.mueritz-fisch.de/downloads/Tiefenkarten/Feisnecksee.pdf
> 
> After looking at the map cache of tangogps, I assume that I need to
> create a picture of the map and then split this pictures into smaller
> ones (.png) and put them into numbered directories in connection with
> the GPS coordinates. I need to do this for different zoom levels.
> 
> I'm very happy about _every_ hint how I can get this done most easily.
> I guess that doing all that manual it would need a very long time.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> Kev
> 
I can help you with the splitting part. A few weeks ago I wrote a script to 
render OSM data to svg, convert it to png and split the files into directories. 
It renders a specific subset of OSM data, but it can be used to split PNG 
images.

You would probably be interested in the most basic version which contains only 
files I made or moified [1], but if you want to see the whole thing running, 
check out the version with external tools in it [2].

There's a small readme in it, but I'll be happy to help if it's not enough.

Cheers,
rhn

[1] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/tilerender.tar.gz
[2] http://porcupinefactory.org/data/osma+tile-render.tar.gz

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Re: T-mobile even more plus

[omcomali . rhn]

On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 11:55:13 +0200
Ed Kapitein  wrote:

> On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 00:07 +0200, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org
> wrote:
> > On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:47:18 +0200
> > Ed Kapitein  wrote:
> > 
> > > On 08/02/2010 09:18 PM, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> > > > Hi Ed,
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations for capturing the beautiful GPS track. Could you share 
> > > > how you managed to do it? Did you wait for the plane to start or did 
> > > > you get on the plane with a GPS fix?
> > > >
> > > > Both times I tried, the Freerunner lost fix just before the start.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > rhn
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:36:23 +0200
> > > > Ed Kapitein  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >   
> > > ><
> > > 
> > > Sure,
> > > 
> > > Actually i took two approaches, on the trip from holland to the USA i
> > > used an external gps receiver [1] and used gpsd  on the FR with an
> > > bluetooth connection.
> > > I did had a fix just prior to take off.
> > > ( i did not hear the announcement "all electronic equipment must be
> > > switched off now", a sudden attack of deafness i guess... ;-) )
> > > The log is simply gpspipe -r > /some/file , nothing fancy there.
> > > I do switch log files every 500Mb, so the files don't get too big for
> > > rsync to be transfered over a not so reliable gprs connection at a later
> > > time.
> > > 
> > > At the very end of our holiday i lost my gps receiver ( i left it in an
> > > rental RV...)
> > > so on the trip from the USA to holland i jammed my fr between the window
> > > and the "shade" ( a plastic curtain that covers the window to make it 
> > > dark )
> > > if you remove the back cover of the FR it fits even better.
> > > I had a fix prior to take off, but i lost it after take off when i
> > > checked the FR.
> > > It seems the FR really needs to be close to the window to obtain and
> > > keep a fix
> > > But it did get a new fix after i put the FR against the window again and
> > > after studying the GPX logs at home is noticed that i had a dgps fix
> > > most of the time, so WAAS or EGNOS are really working on the FR.
> > > 
> > > I also noticed that  the elevation seems to be working too, i was on +/-
> > > 1
> > > meter and that seems right.
> > > ( holland is flat and i never could use the elevation before ;-) )
> > > 
> > > Hope this answers your question?
> > > 
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Ed
> > > 
> > > [1]
> > > http://www.gpsshop.nl/product/49515/haicom-hi-408bt-bluetooth-gps-ontvanger.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > Thanks, this was a really exhaustive reply. I forgot to ask whether it's 
> > possible to get a fix after takeoff, but you answered even that question ;)
> > 
> > It seems that my problem was hiding the Freerunner underneath some cover on 
> > my lap. Next time I'm going to try the shade trick and a deafness strike 
> > (they didn't mind me taking photos, so I guess it's safe). I'll also try to 
> > see if losing the fix is related to the start of the engines.
> > 
> > What program did you use to capture the log files? I'm always using 
> > TangoGPS, and I never saw any DGPS information in it. I didn't even know 
> > SHR (am I guessing right?) supported DGPS!
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> > 
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > 
> The log is simply gpspipe -r > /some/file , nothing fancy there.
> I am using gentoo, with the framework fso-gpsd. the nmea log can be
> converted later with gpsbabel into a gpx format. the gpx file will show
> the kind of fix you have 2d, 3d or dgps.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ed 
> 
> 
Thank you!

I thought gpspipe was only used for external GPS units, that's why I asked.

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: T-mobile even more plus

[omcomali . rhn]

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:47:18 +0200
Ed Kapitein  wrote:

> On 08/02/2010 09:18 PM, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org wrote:
> > Hi Ed,
> >
> > Congratulations for capturing the beautiful GPS track. Could you share how 
> > you managed to do it? Did you wait for the plane to start or did you get on 
> > the plane with a GPS fix?
> >
> > Both times I tried, the Freerunner lost fix just before the start.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > rhn
> >
> > On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:36:23 +0200
> > Ed Kapitein  wrote:
> >
> >   
> ><
> 
> Sure,
> 
> Actually i took two approaches, on the trip from holland to the USA i
> used an external gps receiver [1] and used gpsd  on the FR with an
> bluetooth connection.
> I did had a fix just prior to take off.
> ( i did not hear the announcement "all electronic equipment must be
> switched off now", a sudden attack of deafness i guess... ;-) )
> The log is simply gpspipe -r > /some/file , nothing fancy there.
> I do switch log files every 500Mb, so the files don't get too big for
> rsync to be transfered over a not so reliable gprs connection at a later
> time.
> 
> At the very end of our holiday i lost my gps receiver ( i left it in an
> rental RV...)
> so on the trip from the USA to holland i jammed my fr between the window
> and the "shade" ( a plastic curtain that covers the window to make it dark )
> if you remove the back cover of the FR it fits even better.
> I had a fix prior to take off, but i lost it after take off when i
> checked the FR.
> It seems the FR really needs to be close to the window to obtain and
> keep a fix
> But it did get a new fix after i put the FR against the window again and
> after studying the GPX logs at home is noticed that i had a dgps fix
> most of the time, so WAAS or EGNOS are really working on the FR.
> 
> I also noticed that  the elevation seems to be working too, i was on +/-
> 1
> meter and that seems right.
> ( holland is flat and i never could use the elevation before ;-) )
> 
> Hope this answers your question?
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ed
> 
> [1]
> http://www.gpsshop.nl/product/49515/haicom-hi-408bt-bluetooth-gps-ontvanger.html
> 
> 

Thanks, this was a really exhaustive reply. I forgot to ask whether it's 
possible to get a fix after takeoff, but you answered even that question ;)

It seems that my problem was hiding the Freerunner underneath some cover on my 
lap. Next time I'm going to try the shade trick and a deafness strike (they 
didn't mind me taking photos, so I guess it's safe). I'll also try to see if 
losing the fix is related to the start of the engines.

What program did you use to capture the log files? I'm always using TangoGPS, 
and I never saw any DGPS information in it. I didn't even know SHR (am I 
guessing right?) supported DGPS!

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: T-mobile even more plus

[omcomali . rhn]

Hi Ed,

Congratulations for capturing the beautiful GPS track. Could you share how you 
managed to do it? Did you wait for the plane to start or did you get on the 
plane with a GPS fix?

Both times I tried, the Freerunner lost fix just before the start.

Cheers,
rhn

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 20:36:23 +0200
Ed Kapitein  wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> I just came home from a wonderful trip trough the USA.
> Lots of beautiful scenery and animals.
> I also used my european FR to make calls and to have internet access.
> The "even more plus unlimited data plan" was not available for my SIM
> card, i would have needed a new sim card, but because i was traveling
> this was not an option.
> So i went with the prepaid "sidekick" plan, unlimited internet access
> for 1 dollar per day.
> It worked very well in california and was usable in the other states.
> don't expect miracles, it is gprs and thus a bit slow, and in states
> like nevada, you only have coverage near big cities.
> This might be due to the fact that i have a European FR, i am not sure.
> It worked well enough to send my gps logs back home while i was driving.
> 
> I also used my FR to track my transatlantic flight, from holland to
> San francisco,  see [1] [2]
> (with an external battery pack to cover the ten hour flight)
> 
> Kind regards,
> Ed
> 
> [1] http://www.kapitein.org/thumb/1278065110.jpg
> [2] http://www.kapitein.org/thumb/1278099770.jpg
> 
> 
> On 06/22/2010 11:50 PM, Jim Ancona wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Ed Kapitein  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I want to get a t-mobile "even more plus unlimited data plan" in
> > the USA.
> > Is there anyone with hands on experience with this plan?
> > It says, unlimited web access, does that mean unlimited access to web
> > sites, or can i use ssh/scp/rsync to offload my pictures and videos to
> > my server at home?
> >
> >
> > I have a T-Mobile Even More Plus plan with "Unlimited Web for Phones".
> > I just successfully ssh'd from my phone to an internet host, so they
> > don't block port 22. I know common protocols like POP and IMAP work in
> > addition to web, and with ssh, I guess you could tunnel anything else
> > you might need. If you're going to be rsync'ing your video library,
> > you may want to ask about data caps on a mobile forum site
> > like howardforums.com , but it's hard to
> > imagine you'll have a problem at GPRS speed with the Freerunner.
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org 
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 

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Re: script for batch conversion of tango track log to gpx

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 21:45:37 +0100
Tim Abell  wrote:

> here's one I just wrote
> 
> http://gist.github.com/489870
> 
> Tim Abell
> 

Here's a script to cut/fix invalid data points I wrote some time ago.

rhn



gpslogcrop.py
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Shr-User] [SHR-T] Images from 29th of May

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:45:37 +0300
"Risto H. Kurppa"  wrote:

> Hi there!
> 
> The latest SHR-testing images are available at
> http://build.shr-project.org/tests/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/
> 
> Martin Jansa / JaMa prepared them in the end of May but it wasn't
> announced anywhere - so here you go.
> DISCLAIMER: The images have not actually been tested so if you have a
> working setup & don't want to risk, wait for some others to first test
> these..
> 
> I had something weird happening during the first run wizard, with the
> keylock - I wasn't able to close it. Restarting helped.
> 
> Flashing instructions here:
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner#Flashing_the_Kernel
> 
> We're waiting for spaetz to return..
> 
> 
> 
> r

Are these new images the same as old ones, just with updates from the feed? Or 
do they include something I can't get from the feed?

rhn

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Re: Introducing the Freerunner Navigation Board

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sat, 1 May 2010 13:48:58 +0200
Christoph Mair  wrote:

> Dear community,
> 
> we are proud to release a hardware extension for our beloved Freerunner: a 
> navigation board!
> 
> What is it?
> The Freerunner Navigation Board is a small PCB which is able to measure 
> rotations as well as the magnetic field in 3D respectively (i.e. compass and 
> gyroscopes integrated). The navigation board can be integrated in the 
> existing 
> Freerunner case.
> 
> How can we test it?
> In order to test the functionality of the sensors we developed a monitor 
> application for sensors written completely in Vala. For more detailed 
> information on both, Freerunner Navigation Board and Sensor Monitor, please 
> refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freerunner_Navigation_Board
> 
> What can we do with it?
> No idea. Perhaps someone of you can find an appropriate use :p
> 
> We are looking forward to get feedback and comments.
> 
> Cheers,
>   Christoph & Michele
> 

Great work!

Are you going to distribute it? If yes, what's the price of one? If no, what's 
the cost of the modules needed to assemble one (pardon me if this question is 
stupid)?

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Debian - issues

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:12:17 +0100
Sebastian Reichel  wrote:

> I just guessed he meant the software stack of them because their
> distribution uses openembedded and not *.deb files ;)
> 
> -- Sebastian

That's right, SHR as in the distribution. I hope my other post cleared that up 
;)

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Debian - issues

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:13:37 +0100
Sebastian Reichel  wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 02:04:03PM +0100, omcomali@porcupinefactory.org 
> wrote:
> > I guess I'm going to wait for a new kernel as Timo suggested.
> 
> I guess I will upload one later today. It will require loading more
> modules @ boot time. I hope this will ease migration to the normal
> Debian kernel once it's ready :)
> 
> > By the way, can any of the Debian gurus suggest an easy way to rebuild a 
> > Debian
> > package with different build options? And would a shared library built this 
> > way
> > work on SHR?
> 
> roughly said it can be done like this:
> 
> apt-get source $package
> edit the debian/rules file according to your needs
> dpkg-buildpackage
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by the last sentence. If you change e.g.
> libphone-ui you just have to make sure, that the ABI remains the
> same. Btw. which build options are you talking about?
> 
> -- Sebastian
> 

Thanks, I'm going to give it a try.

Well, I meant mostly the ABI, processor type and possible incompatibilities I 
have no idea about.
The reason behind it: I've had trouble building a package on SHR or 
openembedded cross-toolchain, so I tried to hack the problem away using 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH with Debian /usr/lib, but it resulted in illegal instructions.
I don't know the exact reason (different ABI? incompatible library versions?), 
so I was asking just in case.

The package is mrpt-libs, and the build options are its dependencies on various 
big packages I don't need or want, e.g. OpenCV.

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Debian - issues

[omcomali . rhn]

Thanks for the responses! I thought the debug-disabled kernel gave only ~20% 
speedup, that's a nice surprise!

I guess I'm going to wait for a new kernel as Timo suggested.

By the way, can any of the Debian gurus suggest an easy way to rebuild a Debian 
package with different build options? And would a shared library built this way 
work on SHR?

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: Debian - issues

[omcomali . rhn]

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:35:30 +0200
Timo Juhani Lindfors  wrote:

> omcomali@porcupinefactory.org writes:
> > It's installed on SD card with multiple partitions, but how to mount
> > the other partitions? I couldn't find the relevant device files in
> > /dev, except for mtdX, which are character devices and probably
> > related to builtin NAND anyway.
> 
> uname -r?
> dpkg -l udev?
> zgrep SYSFS /proc/config.gz | grep DEPRECATED?
> 
> My guess is that you have too old kernel which does not work with your
> udev.
Here are the results:

debian> uname -r
2.6.29-20100118.gita15608f2
debian> dpkg -l udev
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   VersionDescription
+++-==-==-
ii  udev   151-2  /dev/ and 
hotplug management daemon
debian> zgrep SYSFS /proc/config.gz | grep DEPRECATED
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED=y
CONFIG_SYSFS_DEPRECATED_V2=y

Doesn't Debian install its own kernel? uname -r on SHR gives 2.6.29-rc3

> 
> > Another issue: wlan. I'm using a 2.6.29 kernel (I don't know if it's
> > the kernel I use on my primary SHR or Debian-installed one). I know
> > there are some WiFi problems with it, but my research suggested
> > people were able to use it sometimes. In my case, the network device
> > is not even present... Can I do something about this?
> 
> We need to first know which kernel you have.
> 
> > Bonus question: why does Debian feel (and compile stuff) so much
> > faster than SHR?
> 
> No idea, you need to come up with some objective benchmarks :-)

The thing I noticed first is the 6MB smaller memory footprint in Debian. As 
openembedded is specifically designed for devices with less memory, I expected 
it to be better...
Compiling a program (peak memory usage during compilation >70MB) took twice the 
amount of time on SHR, but I don't think the swapping alone was the reason.
I can post the "time g++" and "free" output for both systems.

A synthetic benchmark (only the ending for brevity):
shr> openssl speed
  signverifysign/s verify/s
rsa  512 bits 0.023652s 0.00s 42.3450.1
rsa 1024 bits 0.134795s 0.007125s  7.4140.3
rsa 2048 bits 0.884167s 0.025219s  1.1 39.7
rsa 4096 bits 6.15s 0.092828s  0.2 10.8
  signverifysign/s verify/s
dsa  512 bits 0.021685s 0.024925s 46.1 40.1
dsa 1024 bits 0.070863s 0.083551s 14.1 12.0
dsa 2048 bits 0.254737s 0.304000s  3.9  3.3

debian> openssl speed
  signverifysign/s verify/s
rsa  512 bits 0.008735s 0.000819s114.5   1220.9
rsa 1024 bits 0.041125s 0.002088s 24.3478.9
rsa 2048 bits 0.237857s 0.006484s  4.2154.2
rsa 4096 bits 1.604286s 0.022031s  0.6 45.4
  signverifysign/s verify/s
dsa  512 bits 0.007156s 0.007992s139.7125.1
dsa 1024 bits 0.019780s 0.023389s 50.6 42.8
dsa 2048 bits 0.063590s 0.075344s 15.7 13.3

Turns out Debian is over twice as fast as SHR! What's the status of fso and 
shr-apps compared to SHR?

Cheers,
rhn

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Debian - issues

[omcomali . rhn]

Hi,

I just installed Debian to be able to use some packages from the repos, and I 
need help to get it to behave.

It's installed on SD card with multiple partitions, but how to mount the other 
partitions? I couldn't find the relevant device files in /dev, except for mtdX, 
which are character devices and probably related to builtin NAND anyway.

Another issue: wlan. I'm using a 2.6.29 kernel (I don't know if it's the kernel 
I use on my primary SHR or Debian-installed one). I know there are some WiFi 
problems with it, but my research suggested people were able to use it 
sometimes. In my case, the network device is not even present... Can I do 
something about this?

Bonus question: why does Debian feel (and compile stuff) so much faster than 
SHR?

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: [SHR-U] WiFi-related memory leak

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:18:32 -0800 (PST)
vancel35  wrote:

> 
> I don't know if what I saw was the same problem, but I left mine on my wifi
> ovenight and when I woke up, it wasn't responding very quickly, but as far
> as I know, nothing had been killed.
> 
> I didn't even think about the Wifi being the problem.  If it's data-related,
> I probably didn't have enough data passing to cause a problem.
> 
> -Laura

I've had something similar, compiling a big project on the Freerunner with swap 
enabled, wifi on.
Before I started, some RAM was free, after it finished (about 6h), and I closed 
all programs to match the previous state, the system was much less responsive, 
RAM was nearly full and 50MB of swap was used. All programs seemed to have 
normal reserved memory footprints.

The above details are not to be trusted, I could have overlooked something 
important.

Maybe it has something to do with memory fragmentation? Or maybe it's 
sd-related?

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: elm_browser initial release

[omcomali . rhn]

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:49:16 +0100
Patryk Benderz  wrote:

> [cut]
> > Not everyone uses the card all the time, so ~/Downloads would be
> > better. You can symlink that to whatever you wish (like it used to be
> > in TangoGPS).
> Symlink is a good idea - I use it since "ages" but wouldn't ~/Maps
> folder fit better for this?

Sorry, I didn't make it clear: ~/Maps works for TangoGPS, ~/Download would work 
for files downloaded with Ventura.

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: elm_browser initial release

[omcomali . rhn]

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:39:18 +0100
Lars Hennig  wrote:

> Am Sonntag 14 Februar 2010 schrieb Petr Vanek:
> > How about ~ by default but having it as a configurable string? And the
> > downloader perhaps too? "wget". Some might change it to
> > "wget -c"  (continue downloading)
> 
> Even better would be /media/card as there is usually more space...
> 
Not everyone uses the card all the time, so ~/Downloads would be better. You 
can symlink that to whatever you wish (like it used to be in TangoGPS).
Also, wget -c sometimes gives up, I think it was 10 retries.

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: RFC: FSOSHRCON 2010 kickoff

[omcomali . rhn]

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:24:32 +0100
Michael 'Mickey' Lauer  wrote:

> Dear guys,
> 
> I just returned from FOSDEM (*) where we had a mini Openmoko devroom.
> Seeing all the interested people and experiencing the scent of imminent
> breakthroughs wrt. supporting foreign platforms got me really motivated
> to kick off this year's FSOSHRCON. I consider last year being a good
> start, but am 100% sure we can do even better this year.
> 
> Before we go into the detail planning, we have to talk about the rough
> plans. Here are my proposals, please comment.
> 
> =Timeframe=
> 
> I'd like us to meet in summer, i.e. somewhere during the May - August
> timeframe. We have to try to avoid school holidays and summer vacations
> (especially for those of us who have kids) though.
> 
> =Duration=
> 
> I'm afraid it needs to be a weekend, but we should aim to have two fully
> productive days (think about losing at least one day for arrival and
> setup plus cleaning up and departure), so it'd be best if we could
> either add a friday or a monday to the bouquet.
> 
> =Location=
> 
> This largely depends on the scope of this conference. I found last
> year's meeting @ LinuxHotel very pleasant and supercheap. The
> requirements are a big room where we can sit on a round or squared table
> with video and networking equipment.
> 
> =Program=
> 
> Last year we had a strong focus on getting to know each other and giving
> presentations. While that's all good, I'd like to attempt something more
> focused this year. I would love to come there with some concrete goals,
> such as:
> 
> *) Porting SHR to fsogsmd.
> *) Porting FSO & SHR to the HTC Dream.
> *) Porting FSO & SHR to the Palm Pre.
> *) Unbreaking libfso-glib for C users.
> *) Porting SHR-Settings to Vala.
> etc. etc.
> 
> I do think that we can allow for a small amount of presentations, but a
> really limited one. This year we should strive for a more workshop &
> code sprint oriented spirit.
> 
> =Sponsoring=
> 
> Travel costs are always high. We should try to find some sponsors for
> this event.
> 
> That's all that comes to my mind now. I'd love to see all of you in a
> productive environment again, so let's try hard to make this happen.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> -- 
> :M:
> 
> 
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I would be happy to take part in it. Because I haven't been very active in the 
community in the past (limited time: still studying), I feel the need to redeem 
myself and contribute something useful to SHR.

I don't have much experience with working on "real" projects yet, but I do have 
some experience with coding in general - I hope there will be a place for 
people like me on the conference!

Cheers,
rhn

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Re: OT: Re: gender-neutral English usage

[omcomali . rhn]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 23:28:11 +0100
"arne anka"  wrote:

> >> > what exactly has one's value to do with the gender or the pronoun you  
> >> are
> >> > using to refer to him or her?
> >> > your proposition is based on the assumption that one gender is less
> >> > valueable than the other, hence, using the male or female pronoun  
> >> would
> >> > express a judgement.
> > In different situations, I myself assign different values to people of  
> > different genders, yes. This is usually backed up by statistics - for  
> > example, I assume more men than women are capable of heavy lifting ;)  
> > Other people are likely to do the same. Aren't you?
> 
> i don't really see, inhowfar difference necessarily must impose a  
> hierarchy.
> my laptop's screen is certainly different from my parents tv -- but that  
> doesn't mean one is better than the other.
> 
I think you missed my point - it was only to stress that people see and treat 
genders differently. The difference in value I was referring to was suitability 
for some things.

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Re: OT: Re: gender-neutral English usage

[omcomali . rhn]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:30:13 +0100
Krister Svanlund  wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:12 PM, arne anka  wrote:
> >> I think it could be just historical. Nowadays, you should act the same
> >> regardless of the gender of the person you're talking to or about except
> >> in some situations. At least in a perfect world, where a
> >> worker/colleague of either gender is considered the same value.
> >
> > what exactly has one's value to do with the gender or the pronoun you are
> > using to refer to him or her?
> > your proposition is based on the assumption that one gender is less
> > valueable than the other, hence, using the male or female pronoun would
> > express a judgement.
In different situations, I myself assign different values to people of 
different genders, yes. This is usually backed up by statistics - for example, 
I assume more men than women are capable of heavy lifting ;) Other people are 
likely to do the same. Aren't you?

> 
> To me it seems obvious that ones own impression of something is
> heavily based on the language you use (see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity and the Sapir-Whorf
> hypothesis).
> If you make a difference between two persons (by assigning them
> different genders) you will also put values on the difference even if
> it isn't your intention.
> 
That is what I meant. Moreover, I believe that all people impose different 
behavior on themselves depending on whether they're talking to a male or a 
female.
Someone might unintentionally treat women more lightly or try to compete with 
men... these are only guesses, but I think that it's impossible to treat both 
males and females exactly the same in all situations.

As for the influence of language, I think it's not the only influence. Most of 
the contacts people have are personal, and there is no reason not to 
differentiate genders. This should make people approach different genders 
differently regardless of the language they use.

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Re: OT: Re: gender-neutral English usage

[omcomali . rhn]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:55:18 +0100
"arne anka"  wrote:

> > And I can't see
> > the need for gender-specific pronouns at all.
> 
> well, since a lot of (most?) languages have those, there's certainly a  
> need for that :-)
> 
I think it could be just historical. Nowadays, you should act the same 
regardless of the gender of the person you're talking to or about except in 
some situations. At least in a perfect world, where a worker/colleague of 
either gender is considered the same value.
That could push the relationship zone back in the perfect world's internet age, 
though, because it would be the only reason to ask about someone's gender. Some 
people prefer no one to know they are interested in someone. The solution is to 
be gender-specific from the very beginning :)

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Re: OT: Re: gender-neutral English usage

[omcomali . rhn]

On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 12:14:43 +0100
"arne anka"  wrote:

> > AFAIK, German has a neutral gender in addition to masculine and
> > feminine, but I know even less about German than Spanish.
> 
> german neutral pronoun "es" is very similar to english "it" (and not only  
> etymologically), ie it is only used for nouns not being either mal or  
> female (and diminutives like "Mädchen" which is a d'v of "Maid/Magd",  
> girl).
> it certainly is not applicable for the case in question.
> 

I know for sure that Estonian language has a gender-neutral pronoun. In 
exchange, it doesn't have any gender-specific pronouns, what I find strange, 
being used to Polish, in which you can't virtually say anything without being 
gender-specific.

> as in almost any other language the issue of male vs female came up not  
> until the 60s/70s and there's no viable solution (if it is possible to  
> find any).
> we use "er/sie" which equaly "he/she" but german even uses male vs femal  
> in nouns like "Schaffner" (conductor) or "Maurer" (mason) -- which get a  
> suffix "in/innen" (sing/pl) for the female form.
> thus, in most texts paying attention to gender it is written "Maurer/in"  
> or "MaurerIn" (and now, zealots try to dinstinguish themselves by writing  
> "Maurer_in" ... )
> 

It's been an issue in Polish language and culture recently, too - some of the 
functions in society had been traditionally assigned to one or the other 
gender, and some to both. The words not having other-gendered counterparts have 
to be coped with.
"Doktor" is normally male, but can be used as ("implicitly") female, and the 
use is widely accepted. However, most words can be made "explicitly" female - 
"doktor" would become "doktorka".
The most famous example of the latter is "psycholog" and "psycholożka" 
(psychologist), which are accepted by the Polish Language Board, but sound 
extremely cheesy in my opinion.

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Re: Happy New Year from FSO

[omcomali . rhn]

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:31:16 +0100
Michal Brzozowski  wrote:

> 2010/1/14 Michael 'Mickey' Lauer 
> 
> > In the last 6 months, I worked roughly 60 hours per week on FSO2. Thanks
> > to my wife having a full-time-job, I could do this without causing any
> > financial trouble.
> >
> >
> Wow! You are amazing. Thanks for doing this, I'm sure it will pay off in the
> future.
> 

I agree with Michał - your commitment is amazing!

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Re: OT: Where can I meet a female companion with similar interests and personality /in person/?

[omcomali . rhn]

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 23:00:19 +0100
Fabian Schölzel  wrote:

---snip---

> You also said, that he could run into trouble because of the things he writes 
> here. Well, that may be. Myself i think, only people, that are not able to 
> deal with that amount of info and openness, would generate trouble out of 
> this 
> writings. I don't really see, where one can be too open and honest about 
> himself. Is that really possible? We are all human beings, why would we want 
> to hide parts of our existence? Why would we want to let taboos about what to 
> say and what not to say stay? If someone don't want to read some specific 
> stuff, then he should go on and do not read it. If someone (in 10 years for 
> example) will make decisions or estimations on the basis of Brolins writings 
> here and now - well, as i said, that may happen. Often people say "imagine 
> they google you and don't give you a job". I would say: "Gladly, Brolin don't 
> have to work and talk with people, who are just lost in the age of 
> information."
> 

I approach this in a slightly differrent manner.
I believe that one should not be completely open to strangers and should leave 
some knowledge about him/her only to people he/she cares about. Being able to 
know someone more than others do is a gift you could give your colleagues (they 
know more then a stranger), your friends (you know some of your thoughts), your 
relatives (they know your daily life) and so on. I personally find it nice if 
someone shows that I'm important to her/him by sharing more of that knowledge 
with me.

That are also a few other reasons to not talk about oneself that I won't share 
with Google's caches as Google is not someone I know ;)

Cheers,
rhn

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