>Let's look at this as a great opportunity. Presumably, all of these
>phones will have a working linux kernel and drivers that are available
>for them, whither the Android platform is truly open or not, surely
>this is a big with for the OSS-phone community.
This is exactly how I've been viewing t
There has been some serious effort trying to get Android to run on the
Neo:
http://benno.id.au/blog/2007/11/21/android-neo1973
It was at the point where he started writing code to emulate ARMv5
instructions on an ARMv4 that I was thinking "If anyone can get it
running, it's going to be this guy".
>Why does the world need yet another mobile Linux knitting circle? Just
>because you can buy a domain name doesn't mean you should mint new .orgs.
It doesn't. There are SO MANY wikis, blogs, news groups, websites, forums etc.
set up around android. Why? MONEY! Most of the sites I've seen have b
>For someone to claim to "write a C android app", what would be required
>would be for the app to communicate with the "Surface Manager" and
>display a GUI, and/or communicate with the android databases (phone
book,
>call log, whatever), and/or communicate with the device drivers (eg,
make
>a c
>Currently, Android sucks big time, IMO. Google has no announced plans
>for allowing developers to write any C/C++ applications.
Well I've managed to get a native C "hello world" running under the
android emulator, so it is possible to run native C/C++ applications.
"All" we need to do is work o
>But why joined TAT on the 5 november, the day of the press release?
>isn't this a little bit late or just another reason to believe they use
>TAT, cause they don't wanted to spoil the whole thing with TAT oh their
>list even earlier?
Good question... I had assumed 5th November is just when the
an
>> 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all
>> 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K
>> 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine
>> 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's
>> website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/d
Sorry to bring up the whole google phone thing again, but...
I read the arm-linux Mailing list. Yesterday, Brian Swetland ("Linux
Kernel Lead, Android Project, Google") posted, announcing the public git
tree for the Qualcomm MSM7K.
This could just be the platform the android guys have been using
>When you look at "real" smart phone sales - i.e. the 20m number, a
>very significant number of those are sold in the US. This is just
I think Nkoli's point was that if you are going to say something like "A very
significant number", it might be better to back it up with a reference to some
stat
>Its really hard to imagine a company building a phone that didnt think
>through what frequencies were needed. More interestingly, that it took
>a trip from Michael to Taiwan to get anyone to focus on it. If this
>substantially sets back the development effort, it really is a major
>blow to the pro
>http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/05/live-coverage-of-googles-android-gphone-mobile-os-announcement
>looks like google are announcing an open-source linux based phone OS,
>supported by a lot of big names in the hardware industry
Look at the smaller names tho. One court my eye, I remember stumblin
>Oh yeah, welcome Rasterman!!
>So e17 also on openmoko phone? :D
>Wow!! I'm sooo excited!
E17 is already running on the neo (in a fashion):
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8294545513.html
FancyPants is based on E17 - more info at
http://linuxdevices.com/files/article078/fst-fancypants-celf2007
>I've created a wiki page to consolidate the current status, and provide
>a place for you to add questions and topics you'd like to see
addressed.
I've added a section on the SMedia 3362. Most of my questions have been
answered off-list by OpenMoko people (thanks!): There will be no 3D on
the GTA
In a previous e-mail it was confirmed that the driver for the SMedia
accelerator found in the GTA02 will take the form of a KDrive driver.
(Correct?)
Given that the chip is OpenGL ES 1.2 compliant and the SMedia datasheet
(At least for the 3370, no datasheet for the 3362) claim "Embedded
Linux" so
>I've just tried Mines (testing purposes only, of course!), but it's kind
>of hard to win with-out being able to right-click. Does anyone know how
>to perform such an exotic action?
In Windows Mobile & Windows XP Tablet, you can emulate right click by holding
down the stylus for >0.5 secs. Soun
Hi All,
I'm also trying to get the USB Host working on the neo. I've got a kernel
running (2.6.22.5-r3) with the USB host patch. I'm logging in over bluetooth
(as suggested in the wiki page) and have done an ifdown on usb0 (also
recommended on the wiki page). When I echo "host" to usb_mode, I g
>>> So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is
>>> ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/
>>> bar.
>>
>> I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for.
>> But people want to be able to take awful quality photos of their
>> mates & family doing
>So there's no way a tiny sensor in a phone is
>ever going to be useful for much more than drunken shots in a pub/bar.
I agree, and I'm sure that's what most phone cameras are used for. But people
want to be able to take awful quality photos of their mates & family doing
stupid things, spur of
>You appear to only be focusing on one group that share a common
>interest. Keep in my that the OpenMoko/Neo 1973 is not necessarily designed
>for teenagers or kids who's sole focus is the text messaging and the camera.
I thought it was aimed at non-techy people, I guess I was wrong. My point is
>> >A survey on The Register (UK site) had camera at the lowest required
>> >feature with about 25% of people saying they need one and 25% saying
>> >the couldn't care less.
>>
>> Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it. Also, The Register's readers
>> are hardly representative of the mobile ph
>Needless to say there won't be a camera as standard since the case
>tooling can't be altered at this stage.
Then (IMO) the neo is going to be a failure in the market.
>If every design change requested were to be incorporated then the Neo
>would be the since of a laptop and would be ready in
I've been following OpenMoko for nearly a year now and the thought has only
just struck me - There's no camera!
Even the GTA02 seems to be missing a camera. Surely if this is intended to be
aimed at consumers a camera is a must?
If you look on Nokia's website they have 35 phones listed. Filter
Pretty sure this list isn't the right place for this but...
There's a bug on bugzilla (#747) which I've also encountered and fixed.
First, I think this may be a bug in upstream qmake 4.3.1 as I've been
developing a lot with Qtopia outside OpenMoko. Every time I run qmake -project
I have to man
>So for me it would make perfect sense to use the LiPS APIs and bring
>some flexibility to the applications.
I've just read through the LiPS API. I think it's a step in the right
direction, but it looks like it's got a long way to go before it's usable. :-(
I guess my main issues with it are:
>Yes, with the LiPS approach both sides could be satisfied... the LiPS
>PIM API is devided into an upper layer service API for applications to
>use and a lower layer Enabler API for connecting backends.
Yes, sorry, I should have been clearer in my initial post. I meant that we use
something like
>I guess my only comment is that while I don't really care which
>interface people use on their phones, it seems like the data interfaces
>should be the same... If I open up qtopia phone edition and look at my
>contacts or maybe even edit them and then close it down and open up my
>OM interface an
>Can we please end this back and forth C vs. C++, Qt vs. Gtk, X11 vs
>no-X11, Openmoko vs Qtopia. I think most of us have seen plenty of these
>debates over the years and nothing constructive ever comes of them.
As far as I'm concerned, this should have ended last week. The original
question as
>Two complete distributions you can install and run on the same hardware?
>Both free? (not counting Sun since I can't get my paws on that one...)
>That's the real revolution here, and I would say this proves Sean's
>point of doing this in the first place...
Can't agree more, the whole idea of a ha
>After the docs come out, it should be possible to write a Mesa driver
>right? My impression is OpenGL ES is just a subset of regular OpenGL;
>it's not so different that Mesa APIs would not work. Then the whole
>X/GLX/Mesa/driver/DRI stack could be used.
Writing a 3D graphics driver is a big pro
>And there are already plans for someone to do the necessary XRender
>coding to support GTA02.
That's fantastic news! Why on earth did Harold say that the fact that an
accelerated kdrive was being written couldn't be disclosed? What's the problem
in telling the community? Not that it matters rea
>X provides an OpenGL API. So if you want to do fancy stuff like
>Compiz, you do it with OpenGL.
X does not however provide an OpenGL ES API, neither does GDK. Qtopia on the
other hand does allow OpenGL ES integration. In fact Beryl/Compiz-type effects
and composition is already avaliable on
>> >Firstly, Sato is not a mobile phone framework in any sense at all. It
>> >does not include any applications or services that would make a mobile
>> >phone useful. Sato is simply a visual style.
>>
>>
>> Strange, the description on http://www.pokylinux.org/ says:
>>
>> "Sato is our experiment
>Firstly, Sato is not a mobile phone framework in any sense at all. It
>does not include any applications or services that would make a mobile
>phone useful. Sato is simply a visual style.
Strange, the description on http://www.pokylinux.org/ says:
"Sato is our experimental reference/example GTK
>As long as X11 renders to FB, that's true. However, with the GPU in GTA02 that
>may not be true at all as in fact, Mickey mentioned on IRC yesterday that fb
>operations may well be *slower* on GTA02 than on GTA01.
>
>I don't know enough about the differences between Qt and Qtopia (aside of the
>My thoughts that competition has it's advantages and both of the
>technologies will find their fans. But Trolltech and Openmoko should
>cooperate with each other first of all in terms of integration of PIM
>data. Do you really need dual-booting (or other possibility to start
>either Qtopia or Open
>Would you really say either gnome or is wasted effort and should be
>discontinued? Or vim/gnome,linux/bsd,gecko/webkit/mysql/postgres...
Yes, it's my personal belief that these projects all represent wasted effort
and that if they cooperated they'd achieve more. I always get a nice warm fuzzy
>Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With
>openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application
>to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of
>major sections of the code.
Also, one possible solution to this would be to run an x serve
>Very simple, i would think it is about compatibility of code. With
>openmoko, it is a small difficulty to port a normal linux application
>to openmoko. With Qtopia, it would probably involve a rewrite of
>major sections of the code.
So you're saying Qtopia makes it harder to port desktop applic
Has anyone seen these benchmarks:
http://zrusin.blogspot.com/2006/10/benchmarks.html
It compares Cairo (what GTK+ uses) against QT. When it comes to rendering, I
believe Qtopia & QT use the same code. So ignoring X,
"Qt was respectively 7, 5 and 6 times faster. Than Cairo in those plain tests."
>In short: Qtopia is going to be fully GPL'd (telephony applications
>included, which weren't) and is being ported to Neo1973.
Fantastic news! What works? Looking at the youtube videos, it appears that the
phone, SMS, bluetooth & power management are all working? Can you actually
place and recie
>I'd like to introduce Michael Shiloh and Joachim "Roh" Steiger -- two
>new members of the OpenMoko team. Their primary responsibility will be
>to support you, the OpenMoko community developers. I'm sure you'll all
>agree this is an extremely important (and too often neglected in this
>project) rol
>What exactly will the "driver" actually be? As far as I can tell there
>are several options:
>1) A DRI/DRM kernel module & associated mesa module
>2) A hacked up KDrive with accelerated driver
>3) An xorg EXA/XAA driver
>4) A DirectFB kernel module
>5) A bog-standard Linux frame buffer device
Do
>> So are you claiming the open source drivers that we are writing are
not
>> open source, merely by the fact that we are writing them? Using this
>> argument, the entire openmoko software stack would not be open
source,
>> because we are writing it.
So are you going to release the source code to
> Be careful that you look at exactly what is covered under that GPL
> licensing. In order to gain access to the phone stack for the Greenphone
> (a must for my purposes) you have to pay them almost $5K for a commercial
> license.
I think Qtopia Core is what's covered under the GPL. Qtopia core i
>One big question out there regarding the viability of other platforms
>on neo remains: how much effort is FIC putting into pushing changes
>upstream? There's a lot of reinvention required if they don't. (Even
>reinvention within FIC having to forward port patches endlessly)
In terms or wheel re-
Hi all,
Personally, I intend to use Qtopia for my homebrew phone (because of lots of
reasons, but mostly because of the OpenGL ES acceleration). I'm certain
OpenMoko will never switch to Qtopia as so much effort has been put in already.
I suspect, however that Qtopia may one day find itself ru
Hello all,
Over at the SVHMPC, we have been benchmarking application processors.
The main drive for this is that I have been working on a Freescale
i.MX31 processor (based on an ARM11 core) and wanted to see how it
performs compared to the competition. So far we have benchmarks for a
400Mhz PXA255
Ok, there seems to be 2 other possibilities, a rocker switch and a scroll wheel.
Rocker switch: Have you ever used a cheap mouse with a rocker switch instead of
a scroll wheel? If you have then you know how limited they are. They simply do
not offer the same amount of control a scroll wheel or
Q: Does anyone know which 3D accelerator the GTA02 will have?
The application processor doesn't contain a built-in processor so I
assume this is to be a companion device. From one of the presentations I
saw on YouTube, I got the impression that the drivers/library for the 3D
accelerator will be o
Hi All,
I've added a new item on the hardware wishlist:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Side-Mounted_Touch_St
rip
Add a "touch strip" sensor onto the side of the phone which can be used
to scroll. By having it on the side you can use your thumb to scroll
comfortably while hold
Hi All,
I've read through several threads on this list, and others, which
discuss the use of Google Maps for mobiles. It has been mentioned
several times that Google doesn't allow map tiles to be cached. I've
read through the Google Maps API "Terms of Use" and I can't seem to find
any mention of c
I work for BT, who have been trying to get WIFI VoIP working for _YEARS_. It's
very, very difficult and has lots of problems:
1) As several other people have mentioned, the first problem is coverage. A
typical access point will only have 50m - 100m of coverage.
2) There's no guaranteed RF bandw
The specs for the NEO say it boasts a 2.8" 640x480 display. From my
calculations this is 285 dpi, which is just awesome... In fact it's so
good that I almost don't believe it. What LCD is actually in the phone
(Make&Model?). I've searched all the LCD manufactures I can think of and
none of them hav
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