Re: GTA02, FSO in debian/sid: buttons do not work, led neither
Hi Arne, please try this config aux should suspend device and LEDs light when charging with adapter indeed, the new rules.yaml looks quite different (and while looking at it i dimly recall those parts). i moved even the *conf files in place. suspend works now, that phoneui-quick-settings throws the error to be expected (command missing). but LEDs still do not really do anything. when resuming, the PWR button shortly glows orange and that's it. no orange nor blue when on usb -- how do i configure blue to be lit as long the freerunner is awake? last but not least: - is there a reason why those files are not included in the debian packages? - what are fsotdld.conf and fsodatad.conf for? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA02, FSO in debian/sid: buttons do not work, led neither
Hi Arne, please try this config aux should suspend device and LEDs light when charging with adapter Rico[frameworkd] # indicates this configuration version, do not change version = 1 # the default log_level, if not specified per subsystem or module # available log levels are: DEBUG, INFO, WARNING, ERROR, CRITICAL log_level = ERROR # the global log_destination. Uncomment to enable log_to = file #log_to = file #log_to = syslog # if logging to a file, specify the destination log_destination = /var/log/frameworkd.log # persistance format, one of "pickle", "yaml" persist_format = pickle rootdir = ../etc/freesmartphone:/etc/freesmartphone:/usr/etc/freesmartphone [odeviced] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 [odeviced.kernel26] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # poll capacity once every 5 minutes # (usually, you do not have to change this) capacity_check_timeout = 300 # set 0 to disable FB_BLANK ioctl to blank framebuffer # (if you have problems on Openmoko GTA02) fb_blank = 1 [odeviced.audio] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # set directory where the alsa audio scenarios are stored scenario_dir = /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios # set default scenario loaded at startup default_scenario = stereoout [odeviced.idlenotifier] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # don't read from accellerometers for GTA02 ignoreinput = 2,3 # configure timeouts (in seconds) here. A value of 0 # means 'never fall into this state' (except programatically) idle = 10 idle_dim = 20 idle_prelock = 12 lock = 2 suspend = 0 [odeviced.input] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # don't read from accellerometers for GTA02 ignoreinput = 2,3 # format is ,,, report1 = AUX,key,169,1 report2 = POWER,key,116,1 report3 = USB,key,356,0 report4 = HEADSET,switch,2,0 [odeviced.powercontrol-neo] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # disable accelerometer since it uses LOADS of CPU resources [odeviced.accelerometer] disable = 1 accelerometer_type = gta02 [ogsmd] # set log_level to INFO for ogsmd to avoid a bug log_level = INFO # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # choose your modem type, available types are: ti_calypso, freescale_neptune, singleline, muxed4line, option, ... modemtype = ti_calypso # if you have a ti_calypso, you can choose the deep sleep mode. Valid values are: never, adaptive (default), always ti_calypso_deep_sleep = adaptive # if you have a ti_calypso, you can choose the dsp mode for audio enhancement. Valid values are: #"short-aec": Short Echo Cancellation (max) #"long-aec": Long Echo Cancellation (max) #"long-aec:6db": Long Echo Cancellation (-6db) #"long-aec:12db": Long Echo Cancellation (-12db) #"long-aec:18db": Long Echo Cancellation (-18db) #"nr": Noise Reduction (max) #"nr:6db": Noise Reduction (-6db) #"nr:12db": Noise Reduction (-12db) #"nr:18db": Noise Reduction (-18db) #"aec+nr": Long Echo Cancellation (max) plus Noise Reduction (max) [default] #"none": No audio processing. ti_calypso_dsp_mode = aec+nr # choose your muxer, available types are: gsm0710muxd [default], fso-abyss #ti_calypso_muxer = fso-abyss [ogpsd] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 1 # possible options are NMEADevice, UBXDevice, GTA02Device, EtenDevice device = GTA02Device # possible options are SerialChannel, GllinChannel, UDPChannel, FileChannel channel = SerialChannel # For UDPChannel the path defines the port to listen to path = /dev/ttySAC1 [ousaged] # set 1 to disable a module # you need to disable ousaged if you want to use the new implementation: fso-usaged disable = 1 # choose whether resources should be disabled at startup, at shutdown, always (default), or never. sync_resources_with_lifecycle = always [ousaged.generic] [opreferencesd] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 0 log_level = WARNING [opreferencesd.opreferences] [oeventsd] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 0 log_level = WARNING [oeventsd.oevents] [onetworkd] [onetworkd.network] [ophoned] disable=1 [ophoned.ophoned] [opimd] # set 1 to disable a module disable = 0 #contacts_default_backend = CSV-Contacts #messages_default_backend = SQlite-Messages #calls_default_backend = SQLite-Calls #dates_default_backend = SQLite-Dates #notes_default_backend = SQLite-Notes #tasks_default_backend = SQLite-Tasks #contacts_merging_enabled = 1 #messages_default_folder = Unfiled #messages_trash_folder = Trash #sim_messages_default_folder = SMS rootdir = ../etc/freesmartphone/opim:/etc/freesmartphone/opim:/usr/etc/freesmartphone/opim [opimd.opimd] [otimed] disable = 1 # a list of time/zone sources to use or NONE timesources = GPS,NTP zonesources = GSM # use an ip address here, otherwise DNS resolution will block ntpserver = 134.169.172.1 [otimed.otimed] rules.yaml Description: application/yaml ### # FSO Data Daemon Configuration File -- for SYSTEM INTEGRATORS only ##
GTA02, FSO in debian/sid: buttons do not work, led neither
hi, a) both in my own installation with install.sh and timo's (j.) minimal installation the power button has no effect -- no suspend or even gracefull shutdown is initiated. although the button press ist recognized in dmesg, no fso*log nor frameworkd.log shows anything (everything set to DEBUG). in the configurations nothing about buttons is really to be found (except that stanza in frameworkd.conf or fsodevicd or so, don't have the device active right no since suspend does not work) and the options are as arcane and undocumented as ever ... b) LEDs, despite being configured in rules.yaml, do not work. there's an occasional flashing but nothing of the expected (and configured) behaviour. i am absolutely sure, it is not a hardware issue, but has to do with FSO. does anybody else see those issues? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Top-shelf buttons in SHR (was Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1)
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 08:30:23PM +0100, Daniele Forsi wrote: > 2010/12/26 : > > > after installing shr-theme-neo everything works really fine and is in > > "neo-look". > > But after a reboot, the old default-theme gets active and in the top-shelf > > the Buttons "< X >" are not shown anymore after pressing at the expected > > location of the display. > > the buttons disappeared also after the first reboot after a fresh install see http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/1105 and please try proposed bash wrapper -- Martin 'JaMa' Jansa jabber: martin.ja...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Top-shelf buttons in SHR (was Re: [ANNOUNCE] release candidate 1 for new SHR-testing 2011.1)
2010/12/26 : > after installing shr-theme-neo everything works really fine and is in > "neo-look". > But after a reboot, the old default-theme gets active and in the top-shelf > the Buttons "< X >" are not shown anymore after pressing at the expected > location of the display. the buttons disappeared also after the first reboot after a fresh install > Another possibility to get the "< X >"-button back to life after rebooting: > - choosing the Default profile in "Settings > Profiles" > this revives this usefull button. thanks for mentioning this, I wasn't able to change profile with the GUI (apparently nothing happened and enlightenment_remote -default-profile-get was still showing illume2-shr) but the following command changed it, surviveing to reboot: enlightenment_remote -default-profile-set default -- Daniele Forsi ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR-U] [Navit] Buttons/icons broken
On Fri, 2010-02-05 at 08:35 +0100, Christ van Willegen wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm running the latest SHR-U with Navit installed. > > On the map screen, the zoom_in and zom_out buttons are not displayed > at all. Also, when using it for navigation, I only get the distance to > the next navigational item, but not what I'm supposed to do there (it > only shows a square). svg seem not suported(maybe bad compilation option). Try to change from svg to png for the zoom butons(that worked for me). Denis. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[SHR-U] [Navit] Buttons/icons broken
Hello all, I'm running the latest SHR-U with Navit installed. On the map screen, the zoom_in and zom_out buttons are not displayed at all. Also, when using it for navigation, I only get the distance to the next navigational item, but not what I'm supposed to do there (it only shows a square). Any libraries that I missed? I think I have the relevant '*svg*' packages installed, but I may have missed one... $ opkg list_installed | grep svg evas-loader-svg - 2:0.9.9.060+svnr45765-r5.4 librsvg-2-2 - 2.26.0-r1.4 librsvg-2-gtk - 2.26.0-r1.4 librsvg-2-static - 2.26.0-r1.4 rsvg - 2.26.0-r1.4 Can anyone shed some light on this issue? Anything I missed? Christ van Willegen -- 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [any] formatting text in python elementary buttons
On Tue, Dec 08, 2009 at 10:09:17AM -0500, Josh Thompson wrote: > I'm converting a small app I wrote in python-gtk to use python-elementary. I > had some buttons where I was using set_use_markup on a button's label to do > things like setting the font color and background. I can't find a way to do > that with python-elementary. Is there a way to do so? If there is, where > should I look for more info on it? I've been using the source control > browsing for python-elementary[1] and looking at shr-settings as a guide so > far. Have you tried text ? Perhaps it's all you need. Rui ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [any] formatting text in python elementary buttons
Josh Thompson wrote: > I'm converting a small app I wrote in python-gtk to use python-elementary. I > had some buttons where I was using set_use_markup on a button's label to do > things like setting the font color and background. I can't find a way to do > that with python-elementary. Is there a way to do so? If there is, where > should I look for more info on it? U need to write an edje data collection. look in enlightenemnt wiki for edje. if you want to see an implementation (although in C) look at the phoneui apps of current shr unstable. also ffalarms uses custom EDCs for led clock > I've been using the source control > browsing for python-elementary[1] and looking at shr-settings as a guide so > far. > > Thanks, > Josh > > [1] > http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/BINDINGS/python/python-elementary/elementary/ > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[any] formatting text in python elementary buttons
I'm converting a small app I wrote in python-gtk to use python-elementary. I had some buttons where I was using set_use_markup on a button's label to do things like setting the font color and background. I can't find a way to do that with python-elementary. Is there a way to do so? If there is, where should I look for more info on it? I've been using the source control browsing for python-elementary[1] and looking at shr-settings as a guide so far. Thanks, Josh [1] http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/browser/trunk/BINDINGS/python/python-elementary/elementary/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Nicola Mfb wrote: [...] > About my experiments I just discovered that some applications simply > refuse to process XSendEvents for security reasons. This is bad, as > using X you may differentiate virtual injected keys events based on > the destination applications, so AUX may trigger "enter" to one, "F11" > to another and so on. > As of that I think we need to filter events at input lever layer > (other ideas or solutions are welcome of course). I just found XTestFakeKeyEvent, it should work, so another solution may be a daemon that grabs Aux and Power buttons, handle them and injects key events. The daemon may ask the WM for the active window, retrieve it's displayed name and differentiate key injection according to a configuration file. > Il try to contact Theodoros Kalamatianos, the author of actkbd [1] to > ask him for the support for such complex key shortcut, as it's daemon > already has keyboard event injection and use 2.6 linux event > interface. Theodoros has no time actually, but he's interested in such improvements and promised to give a try in few weeks. Regards Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 14:20, Michal Brzozowski wrote: > > > 2009/6/12 Paul Fertser >> >> > Thanks! Is there a daemon that I can -HUP or do I need to restart >> > for the changes to take effect? >> >> Restart frameworkd. > > r...@om-gta02:~# ps -A | grep frameworkd > r...@om-gta02:~# It's python script, so it lives in "python" process. Use just /etc/init.d/frameworkd restart. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Michal Brzozowski wrote: [...] >> That's called E keybinding configuration. > > Does it have actions like show/hide keyboard? Does it detect double, triple, > etc keypresses? The actual problem is that if you use E keybinding for example to "simple lock" the screen when press the aux button you cannot use it in applications. So we should have smart E keybinding, "long aux", "long power", but when you press/release buttons applications receive these events too. That's why I suppose E (and at most other alternatives) cannot handle that and we need a smart daemon to filter/inject events. About my experiments I just discovered that some applications simply refuse to process XSendEvents for security reasons. This is bad, as using X you may differentiate virtual injected keys events based on the destination applications, so AUX may trigger "enter" to one, "F11" to another and so on. As of that I think we need to filter events at input lever layer (other ideas or solutions are welcome of course). Il try to contact Theodoros Kalamatianos, the author of actkbd [1] to ask him for the support for such complex key shortcut, as it's daemon already has keyboard event injection and use 2.6 linux event interface. Nicola [1] http://users.softlab.ntua.gr/~thkala/projects/actkbd/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
2009/6/12 Paul Fertser > > Thanks! Is there a daemon that I can -HUP or do I need to restart > > for the changes to take effect? > > Restart frameworkd. r...@om-gta02:~# ps -A | grep frameworkd r...@om-gta02:~# > > > > Going back to the original point. It would be best if there was a > > config file where one could specify all the different keypress > > events (short AUX, short power, long AUX, double AUX, power-AUX, > > etc) and bind actions to them. The actions would be: suspend, > > shutdown, lock, close app, show/hide keyboard, send a custom signal > > to app, etc. > > That's called E keybinding configuration. > Does it have actions like show/hide keyboard? Does it detect double, triple, etc keypresses? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
Michal Brzozowski writes:
> But have another question though :-), is it possible to create
> custom actions, for example run a script? It would be nice if you
> could add some vibration or led flash to some actions.
There's already an example in rules.yaml:
actions: Command('amixer -d sset "Amp Spk" mute')
--
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercer...@gmail.com
___
Openmoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
2009/6/12 Michal Brzozowski > > Thanks! Is there a daemon that I can -HUP or do I need to restart for the > changes to take effect? > I will answer this myself, it's dbus-daemon. But have another question though :-), is it possible to create custom actions, for example run a script? It would be nice if you could add some vibration or led flash to some actions. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
Michal Brzozowski writes: > 2009/6/12 Paul Fertser > Michal Brzozowski writes: > > Speaking about this, how to change the default behavior of the > > buttons in Om2009? I know that both of them come as X events and can > > be observed using xev, but the power button suspends the device even > > if you're not running X, so its action is probably controlled by > > power management. > > That's oeventsd, part of FSO. You can change the behaviour by editing > rules.yaml. > > Thanks! Is there a daemon that I can -HUP or do I need to restart > for the changes to take effect? Restart frameworkd. > Going back to the original point. It would be best if there was a > config file where one could specify all the different keypress > events (short AUX, short power, long AUX, double AUX, power-AUX, > etc) and bind actions to them. The actions would be: suspend, > shutdown, lock, close app, show/hide keyboard, send a custom signal > to app, etc. That's called E keybinding configuration. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
2009/6/12 Paul Fertser > Michal Brzozowski writes: > > Speaking about this, how to change the default behavior of the > > buttons in Om2009? I know that both of them come as X events and can > > be observed using xev, but the power button suspends the device even > > if you're not running X, so its action is probably controlled by > > power management. > > That's oeventsd, part of FSO. You can change the behaviour by editing > rules.yaml. > Thanks! Is there a daemon that I can -HUP or do I need to restart for the changes to take effect? Going back to the original point. It would be best if there was a config file where one could specify all the different keypress events (short AUX, short power, long AUX, double AUX, power-AUX, etc) and bind actions to them. The actions would be: suspend, shutdown, lock, close app, show/hide keyboard, send a custom signal to app, etc. Michal ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
Michal Brzozowski writes: > Speaking about this, how to change the default behavior of the > buttons in Om2009? I know that both of them come as X events and can > be observed using xev, but the power button suspends the device even > if you're not running X, so its action is probably controlled by > power management. That's oeventsd, part of FSO. You can change the behaviour by editing rules.yaml. -- Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software! mailto:fercer...@gmail.com ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
Speaking about this, how to change the default behavior of the buttons in Om2009? I know that both of them come as X events and can be observed using xev, but the power button suspends the device even if you're not running X, so its action is probably controlled by power management. But APM doesn't seem to allow changing the behavior like ACPI does. Any hints? Michal 2009/6/11 Nicola Mfb > Hi! > I apologize if this is an old topic and was discussed many time before. > I tried hackable:1 some days ago, and I found that AUX/POWER buttons > is handled very nice. I suppose that it cames from 2007.2 neod, but I > was aware of it as I flashed my freerunner with ASU ASAP when it > arrived in my hands last year. > First of all the aux button is used to bring up the virtual keyboard, > and this is good as I hate to use touchscreen to open it with > application not "e" based that does not bring up it automagically when > text widgets get focus, while holding it brings up a menu that let you > rotate the screen, switch fullscreen mode and so on, and this is very > nice as if you go fullscreen with "e" AFAIK there is no possibility to > restore normal size or switch to other windows. > Second the power button let you close an application (this is nice > too!), and holding it brings up a menu to change power management, > screen light and turn on/off gps/wifi/bt/gsm and the entire device. > While experiencing with general not embedded oriented linux apps and > developing mines I feel all these features has to be restored together > with new ideas. > So for a couple of days I'm thinking on how implement and improve it > especially for FSO based distros. > The first enhancement I thought is to give to applications the > possibility to handle 4 cases: > *) aux press > *) power press > *) hold aux, then press power > *) hold power, then press aux > The second is to have holding aux, power or both for a long time > bringing system wide tasks (power menu, auxiliary menu, keyboard and > so on). > All that should be transparent to applications, e.g a special daemon > should grab the input and simulate the 7 events as 7 different keys, > so you may use the 1-4 directly in applications for their needs, and > 5-7 for global shortcut handled for example by the windows manager or > some sort of background daemon to show system menus. > Actually I thinked at two solution: > 1) a neod like daemon that grabs X events (XGrabKeyboard), handle key > presses and forward with XSendEvent the 7 different strokes to > applications or windows manager. > 2) a daemon that grabs /dev/input/event* device in exclusive mode, > handle key events and emulate a new keyboard with uinput capable of 7 > keys. > > I like very much the second idea as it should be totally transparent > to the system, and may be used without X too while the first should be > more portable on different devices, and may be installed and used by a > non privileged user too. > I tryied to code a prototype for the first solution on my desktop, but > I got some problems as I do not know X at lower level, so I used > XGrabKeyboard to receive all key events and XSendEvent to forward them > to other windows, but not all apps are compatible with that, for > example Firefox does not accept text input in the navigation bar while > the grabbing is active. The second problem is that using X atom on the > wm to retrieve the last active window give me a short number (203, 31, > 91 etc.), while XSendEvent wants some sort of different windows ID > (0x301f), so some help for experienced X developer is welcome :) > In the next days I'll try to implement a prototype for the second, > hoping that I'll encounter less problems :) > In the meaning I'd like to have comments about all that, and above all > I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time while similar solutions are > being developed underground :) > > Best regards > >Nicola > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Better handling of AUX and POWER buttons
Hi! I apologize if this is an old topic and was discussed many time before. I tried hackable:1 some days ago, and I found that AUX/POWER buttons is handled very nice. I suppose that it cames from 2007.2 neod, but I was aware of it as I flashed my freerunner with ASU ASAP when it arrived in my hands last year. First of all the aux button is used to bring up the virtual keyboard, and this is good as I hate to use touchscreen to open it with application not "e" based that does not bring up it automagically when text widgets get focus, while holding it brings up a menu that let you rotate the screen, switch fullscreen mode and so on, and this is very nice as if you go fullscreen with "e" AFAIK there is no possibility to restore normal size or switch to other windows. Second the power button let you close an application (this is nice too!), and holding it brings up a menu to change power management, screen light and turn on/off gps/wifi/bt/gsm and the entire device. While experiencing with general not embedded oriented linux apps and developing mines I feel all these features has to be restored together with new ideas. So for a couple of days I'm thinking on how implement and improve it especially for FSO based distros. The first enhancement I thought is to give to applications the possibility to handle 4 cases: *) aux press *) power press *) hold aux, then press power *) hold power, then press aux The second is to have holding aux, power or both for a long time bringing system wide tasks (power menu, auxiliary menu, keyboard and so on). All that should be transparent to applications, e.g a special daemon should grab the input and simulate the 7 events as 7 different keys, so you may use the 1-4 directly in applications for their needs, and 5-7 for global shortcut handled for example by the windows manager or some sort of background daemon to show system menus. Actually I thinked at two solution: 1) a neod like daemon that grabs X events (XGrabKeyboard), handle key presses and forward with XSendEvent the 7 different strokes to applications or windows manager. 2) a daemon that grabs /dev/input/event* device in exclusive mode, handle key events and emulate a new keyboard with uinput capable of 7 keys. I like very much the second idea as it should be totally transparent to the system, and may be used without X too while the first should be more portable on different devices, and may be installed and used by a non privileged user too. I tryied to code a prototype for the first solution on my desktop, but I got some problems as I do not know X at lower level, so I used XGrabKeyboard to receive all key events and XSendEvent to forward them to other windows, but not all apps are compatible with that, for example Firefox does not accept text input in the navigation bar while the grabbing is active. The second problem is that using X atom on the wm to retrieve the last active window give me a short number (203, 31, 91 etc.), while XSendEvent wants some sort of different windows ID (0x301f), so some help for experienced X developer is welcome :) In the next days I'll try to implement a prototype for the second, hoping that I'll encounter less problems :) In the meaning I'd like to have comments about all that, and above all I'd like to know if I'm wasting my time while similar solutions are being developed underground :) Best regards Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: illume keyboard - only navigate buttons
Thanks! I modified it for my purpose (left only left/right/up/down/page_up/page_down buttons). Is there any way to shrink the keyboard? I mean I have now only one line of buttons but it takes the same amount of space. Is it possible to make the "container" of buttons smaller? Leonti On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Pander wrote: > see also > http://www.opkg.org/package_144.html > > Leonti Bielski wrote: >> Thanks! >> It's even better than I expected to find! >> Valuable info. >> Leonti >> >> On 2/26/09, Helge Hafting wrote: >>> Leonti Bielski wrote: >>>> Some time ago on scap.linuxtogo.org I've seen illume keyboard only >>>> with navigate buttons - right, left, up, down and some others. >>>> >>>> I would like to use it for navigation in browsers - right know I use >>>> terminal keyboard to navigate through web-page in links-x11. >>>> Does anyone know where I can find it? >>> A custom keyboard isn't that difficult to make. >>> An illume keyboard is just a textual list of keys: >>> Coordinates for where the key is, how big it is, what function (letter >>> or cursor key) it performs. So you can copy the terminal keyboard file, >>> >>> /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Terminal.kbd >>> >>> Then you simply delete the keys you don't need from the copy. >>> Finally, make the remaining keys bigger by adjusting their >>> coordinates. >>> >>> To use your new keyboard, save the new file as: >>> /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Navigation.kbd >>> Bring up the illume keyboard, press the little qwerty icon >>> in the upper right corner, and select your special keyboard >>> from the list. It will be there if you saved the file to the correct folder. >>> >>> Helge Hafting >>> >>> ___ >>> Openmoko community mailing list >>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >>> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: illume keyboard - only navigate buttons
see also http://www.opkg.org/package_144.html Leonti Bielski wrote: > Thanks! > It's even better than I expected to find! > Valuable info. > Leonti > > On 2/26/09, Helge Hafting wrote: >> Leonti Bielski wrote: >>> Some time ago on scap.linuxtogo.org I've seen illume keyboard only >>> with navigate buttons - right, left, up, down and some others. >>> >>> I would like to use it for navigation in browsers - right know I use >>> terminal keyboard to navigate through web-page in links-x11. >>> Does anyone know where I can find it? >> A custom keyboard isn't that difficult to make. >> An illume keyboard is just a textual list of keys: >> Coordinates for where the key is, how big it is, what function (letter >> or cursor key) it performs. So you can copy the terminal keyboard file, >> >> /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Terminal.kbd >> >> Then you simply delete the keys you don't need from the copy. >> Finally, make the remaining keys bigger by adjusting their >> coordinates. >> >> To use your new keyboard, save the new file as: >> /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Navigation.kbd >> Bring up the illume keyboard, press the little qwerty icon >> in the upper right corner, and select your special keyboard >> from the list. It will be there if you saved the file to the correct folder. >> >> Helge Hafting >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: illume keyboard - only navigate buttons
Thanks! It's even better than I expected to find! Valuable info. Leonti On 2/26/09, Helge Hafting wrote: > Leonti Bielski wrote: >> Some time ago on scap.linuxtogo.org I've seen illume keyboard only >> with navigate buttons - right, left, up, down and some others. >> >> I would like to use it for navigation in browsers - right know I use >> terminal keyboard to navigate through web-page in links-x11. >> Does anyone know where I can find it? > > A custom keyboard isn't that difficult to make. > An illume keyboard is just a textual list of keys: > Coordinates for where the key is, how big it is, what function (letter > or cursor key) it performs. So you can copy the terminal keyboard file, > > /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Terminal.kbd > > Then you simply delete the keys you don't need from the copy. > Finally, make the remaining keys bigger by adjusting their > coordinates. > > To use your new keyboard, save the new file as: > /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Navigation.kbd > Bring up the illume keyboard, press the little qwerty icon > in the upper right corner, and select your special keyboard > from the list. It will be there if you saved the file to the correct folder. > > Helge Hafting > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: illume keyboard - only navigate buttons
Leonti Bielski wrote: > Some time ago on scap.linuxtogo.org I've seen illume keyboard only > with navigate buttons - right, left, up, down and some others. > > I would like to use it for navigation in browsers - right know I use > terminal keyboard to navigate through web-page in links-x11. > Does anyone know where I can find it? A custom keyboard isn't that difficult to make. An illume keyboard is just a textual list of keys: Coordinates for where the key is, how big it is, what function (letter or cursor key) it performs. So you can copy the terminal keyboard file, /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Terminal.kbd Then you simply delete the keys you don't need from the copy. Finally, make the remaining keys bigger by adjusting their coordinates. To use your new keyboard, save the new file as: /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/keyboards/Navigation.kbd Bring up the illume keyboard, press the little qwerty icon in the upper right corner, and select your special keyboard from the list. It will be there if you saved the file to the correct folder. Helge Hafting ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
illume keyboard - only navigate buttons
Some time ago on scap.linuxtogo.org I've seen illume keyboard only with navigate buttons - right, left, up, down and some others. I would like to use it for navigation in browsers - right know I use terminal keyboard to navigate through web-page in links-x11. Does anyone know where I can find it? Thanks. Leonti ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] how to add buttons to illume's launcher?
Am Donnerstag 27 November 2008 schrieb Joel Newkirk: > On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:20:54 +0100, Marcel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Am Thursday 27 November 2008 21:44:32 schrieb Robin Paulson: > >> 2008/11/28 Joerg Lippmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> > After some updating, my tangogps start button is gone from shr's > > > > Illume. > > > >> > But tangogps is still there. How can I create a new start entry? > > Especially the categories are important here, some of them (don't ask me > > which) are not being displayed by illume by default. > If you see "application" change it to "applications". Hey guys! I got it back on the map by setting Categories=GTK;Network; just like in midori.desktop. That's fine for me. Thanks for your help! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] how to add buttons to illume's launcher?
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 22:20:54 +0100, Marcel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am Thursday 27 November 2008 21:44:32 schrieb Robin Paulson: >> 2008/11/28 Joerg Lippmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> > After some updating, my tangogps start button is gone from shr's > Illume. >> > But tangogps is still there. How can I create a new start entry? >> >> does shr have the same launcher as 2008.9? if so, then a .desktop in >> /usr/share/applications will show up on the front page >> >> or reinstall tangogps >> >> if there is a .desktop, but it doesn't show in the launcher, some of >> the settings in it may be wrong - it can be edited with a text editor; >> try looking at some of the others that do work > > Especially the categories are important here, some of them (don't ask me > which) are not being displayed by illume by default. > > -- > Marcel If you see "application" change it to "applications". j ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] how to add buttons to illume's launcher?
Am Thursday 27 November 2008 21:44:32 schrieb Robin Paulson: > 2008/11/28 Joerg Lippmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > After some updating, my tangogps start button is gone from shr's Illume. > > But tangogps is still there. How can I create a new start entry? > > does shr have the same launcher as 2008.9? if so, then a .desktop in > /usr/share/applications will show up on the front page > > or reinstall tangogps > > if there is a .desktop, but it doesn't show in the launcher, some of > the settings in it may be wrong - it can be edited with a text editor; > try looking at some of the others that do work Especially the categories are important here, some of them (don't ask me which) are not being displayed by illume by default. -- Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SHR] how to add buttons to illume's launcher?
2008/11/28 Joerg Lippmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > After some updating, my tangogps start button is gone from shr's Illume. But > tangogps is still there. How can I create a new start entry? does shr have the same launcher as 2008.9? if so, then a .desktop in /usr/share/applications will show up on the front page or reinstall tangogps if there is a .desktop, but it doesn't show in the launcher, some of the settings in it may be wrong - it can be edited with a text editor; try looking at some of the others that do work ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[SHR] how to add buttons to illume's launcher?
Hi! After some updating, my tangogps start button is gone from shr's Illume. But tangogps is still there. How can I create a new start entry? Thanks! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Less bulky would be nice. KB would be nice. To be able to phone with it would also be nice. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 01:56:26PM +0100, arne anka wrote: > > Quoth Wikipedia -- > > so, wikipedia is the source of TRUTH(TM) now? No, but it's an excellent cache for it. Try to find a better verified one with comparable levels of accessibility and breadth. > btw, if you read correctly you would have noticed that the machine being > prone to jam was a distinctly different concept than thos we know today. Which is why pike called it 'legacy'. If you haven't called something you basically agree with 'nonsense' I probably wouldn't have bothered with the quote. > all i am saying is: if you don't like qwert[y|z] don't use it -- it's a > pure matter of taste, not some sinister plot to cripple users ... Not a plot but a de facto standard that is hard to avoid. You can't assume users to be familiar with anything else or to habituate themselves to a new input method. On the FR I plan to use the Twiddler chording keyboard (see http://handykey.com), but like most people who already know qwerty and need to use other people's computers occasionally, the initial effort of learning a better method and the ongoing price of having to continuously switch between them are simply excessive. Yair. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> Quoth Wikipedia -- so, wikipedia is the source of TRUTH(TM) now? btw, if you read correctly you would have noticed that the machine being prone to jam was a distinctly different concept than thos we know today. all i am saying is: if you don't like qwert[y|z] don't use it -- it's a pure matter of taste, not some sinister plot to cripple users ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 11:05:53AM +0100, arne anka wrote: > > With the risk of being completely OT - you all > > know that the QWERTY keyboard was designed for > > the specific purpose of not having the hammers > > of the typewriter clash if you type too fast ? > > There's nothing very ergonomical about them. > > In that perspective, qwerty layouts have been > > legacy since the 70s. > > that's totally nonsense -- and it doesn't get any less preposterous by > permanently repating that myth ... Quoth Wikipedia -- The QWERTY keyboard layout was devised and created in the early 1870s by Christopher Sholes, a newspaper editor and printer who lived in Milwaukee. With the assistance of his friends Carlos Glidden and Samuel W. Soule he built an early writing machine for which a patent application was filed in October 1867.[3] His "Type Writer" had its printing point located beneath the paper carriage, and so was invisible to the operator. Consequently, the tendency of the typebars to clash and jam if struck in rapid succession was a particularly serious problem, in that the mishap would only be discovered when the typist raised the carriage to inspect what had been typed.[4] Sholes struggled for the next six years to perfect his invention, making many trial-and-error rearrangements of the original machine's alphabetical key arrangement in an effort to reduce the frequency of typebar clashes. Eventually he arrived at a four-row, upper case keyboard approaching the modern QWERTY standard. Yair. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 15:51, Dareus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > #1 no frame around the screen. The same, #1 without frames, like iPhone Levy 'Lewis' S. Google Talk! [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ 12913566 MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
#1 no frame around the screen. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/GTA03---buttons-or-touchscreen-tp1376109p1383464.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 8:39 PM, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 In the order of preference - (3), (1). But, sure, only when normal interface for finger use will appear for FR. -- Regards, Alexander Chemeris. SIPez LLC. SIP VoIP, IM and Presence Consulting http://www.SIPez.com tel: +1 (617) 273-4000 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Another option could be a simple flip phone with the standard telephone keypad. Also, the demographic on the mailing list may be different from the demographic of openmoko's target market(s), so this vote might not be useful for them. Despite that, I vote #3 and I would like a 'right click' ability too. The combination would facilitate straight ports and standard window managers. On Saturday 25 October 2008 12:39:18 you wrote: > > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Daniel Benoy http://daniel.benoy.name ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> important than the 'click' feeling. A key has edges, and the feel of the > key under your finger means you don't have to be looking at the keyboard > to be able to type. Again, a soft keyboard can never achieve this. How about having the keyboard on one side and the screen on the other? Since you don't have to look at the keyboard to use it, that should be fine. Stefan "Who incidentally still needs to look at his keyboard" ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a consequence of > the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use as a screen AND a > keyboard at the same time, I think) > No I just prefer real keyboards over touch screen keyboards (by about 1000X). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Dale Maggee wrote: > definitely 3) qwerty + touchscreen > > This shouldn't be too hard to do, I don't think it's too much to ask of > OM - surely the keyboard could be a built-in USB keyboard, which would > mean that all the software etc is already there. All we'd need is a way > to disable the on-screen keyboard, something we'll want for > bluetooth/USB keyboards on the GTA02 anyway... Illume already does this. IIRC if anything appears as a keyboard under hal the onscreen keyboard is not shown. It certainly works for bluetooth and usb keyboards. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
3 JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Jelle De Loecker wrote: > > Dale Maggee schreef: >> Jelle De Loecker wrote: >> >>> I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a >>> consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to >>> use as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) >>> >>> Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, >>> I think the iPhone proved it can work this way. >>> >>> For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone >>> which I really do not want. >>> >>> /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ >>> >>> *Jelle De Loecker* >>> Kipdola Studios - Tomberg >>> >>> >> The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a >> keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can >> feel it click down when you press it. Tactile feedback makes typing >> both faster and more accurate. These are things which a soft keyboard >> can never hope to provide. >> > > That's very true, and I did take it into consideration. > (It also made me think of some technology which WOULD supply tactile > feedback through touchscreens, something I read about a while ago and > found again here: http://www.redferret.net/?p=9533 ) > > Anyway, I understand why you would prefer a keyboard, but I do not > believe it can be made big enough for the GTA03 while not hindering > the aesthetics of the device. > That's an interesting article you pointed me to, but unfortunately it's only half way there - the ability to feel the key is probably more important than the 'click' feeling. A key has edges, and the feel of the key under your finger means you don't have to be looking at the keyboard to be able to type. Again, a soft keyboard can never achieve this. example: http://www.imate-shop.com/images/MOB0450a.jpg granted, we have a bigger screen, but there's no reason why the keyboard couldn't fold out from somewhere. I'm not really interested in what it looks like, I'll take functional over asthetically pleasing any day. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> With the risk of being completely OT - you all > know that the QWERTY keyboard was designed for > the specific purpose of not having the hammers > of the typewriter clash if you type too fast ? > There's nothing very ergonomical about them. > In that perspective, qwerty layouts have been > legacy since the 70s. that's totally nonsense -- and it doesn't get any less preposterous by permanently repating that myth ... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Sunday 26 October 2008 pike wrote: > Hi > > > The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a > > keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can > > feel it click down when you press it. > > With the risk of being completely OT - you all > know that the QWERTY keyboard was designed for > the specific purpose of not having the hammers > of the typewriter clash if you type too fast ? > There's nothing very ergonomical about them. > In that perspective, qwerty layouts have been > legacy since the 70s. Yup, acutely aware of this, and also of the fact that i personally find it much more difficult to move one finger a short distance than i find it to press two fingers in sequence. So... yeah, the guys that designed the qwerty keyboard with slowing people down in mind kinda shot themselves in the feet on that one ;) (que the responses from the dvorak crowd ;) ) ..Dan // Leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 if (SizeOf(GTA03->screen) > SizeOf(GTA02->screen) && !hasHigBorders(GTA03->cover)) vote(1); else vote(3); ;) -- Treviño's World - Life and Linux http://www.3v1n0.net/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Dale Maggee schreef: Jelle De Loecker wrote: I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, I think the iPhone proved it can work this way. For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone which I really do not want. /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ *Jelle De Loecker* Kipdola Studios - Tomberg The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can feel it click down when you press it. Tactile feedback makes typing both faster and more accurate. These are things which a soft keyboard can never hope to provide. That's very true, and I did take it into consideration. (It also made me think of some technology which WOULD supply tactile feedback through touchscreens, something I read about a while ago and found again here: http://www.redferret.net/?p=9533 ) Anyway, I understand why you would prefer a keyboard, but I do not believe it can be made big enough for the GTA03 while not hindering the aesthetics of the device. /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ *Jelle De Loecker* Kipdola Studios - Tomberg ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Hi > The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a > keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can > feel it click down when you press it. With the risk of being completely OT - you all know that the QWERTY keyboard was designed for the specific purpose of not having the hammers of the typewriter clash if you type too fast ? There's nothing very ergonomical about them. In that perspective, qwerty layouts have been legacy since the 70s. We have new tools, now we need new ways of writing. I'm very curious how quikwriting will evolve, or gestures ... my vote: QWO around the corners of the screen. typing input changes focus to qwo, so you can scratch all over the screen, and when you're done focus returns to the application. no screen estate lost :-) ehm, make that GTA09. $2c, *-pike ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:43:12 +0100, Jelle De Loecker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a consequence > of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use as a screen > AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) > > Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, I > think the iPhone proved it can work this way. > > For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone which I > really do not want. > Agreed. Although I realize it would NOT appeal to many, my ideal FreeRunner would be at most half as thick but with a 4"-5" diagonal screen, touchscreen-only with hardware keyboard (as now) possible via USB or bluetooth. (but replace aux button with a wheel or a touchstrip) A pocket tablet or slate, if you will. But it's vital to keep in mind that GTA04 (GTA03 design is apparently pretty well set now, AFAIK, at least at the level of keyboard/nokeyboard) will quite possibly be targeted to a more consumer-level user, meaning that the average participant on this list is NOT the target buyer. (IOW, you're probably asking the wrong people ;) j ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Jelle De Loecker wrote: > I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a > consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use > as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) > > Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, I > think the iPhone proved it can work this way. > > For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone which > I really do not want. > > /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ > > *Jelle De Loecker* > Kipdola Studios - Tomberg > The reason I want a physical keyboard is because I much prefer a keyboard with tactile feedback - you can feel the button, and you can feel it click down when you press it. Tactile feedback makes typing both faster and more accurate. These are things which a soft keyboard can never hope to provide. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > I vote (1) touchscreen. It would also be nice to change the AUX button into a jog dial. In addition to being pressed like the current AUX button, a jog dial could also be used to volume control in phone calls and media playback (also play/pause), scrolling through lists, and a host of other things. -Charles ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
I wonder if most people's need for a physical keyboard is a consequence of the GTA02's small screen. (Well, it's too small to use as a screen AND a keyboard at the same time, I think) Just make the screen big enough to use the virtual keyboard easily, I think the iPhone proved it can work this way. For me, adding a keyboard will just add more bagage to the phone which I really do not want. /Met vriendelijke groeten,/ *Jelle De Loecker* Kipdola Studios - Tomberg JW schreef: Ok Community, vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to buy now!] 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 *** Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. *** For myself my vote is 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now ciao JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
big touchscreen without borders and a few hw buttons ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
2008/10/26 Radek Bartoň <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Big enough touch screen (for finger-friendly keyboard) + some more buttons > (for menu navigation or games) - like on HP iPAQs. This is basically 2). > +1 as this will help in using the device with only one hand, actually is it not so easy with only the ts. Nicola ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Big enough touch screen (for finger-friendly keyboard) + some more buttons (for menu navigation or games) - like on HP iPAQs. This is basically 2). > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve -- Ing. Radek Bartoň Faculty of Information Technology Department of Computer Graphics and Multimedia Brno University of Technology E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://blackhex.no-ip.org Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:39 AM, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 Definitely 1, maximise screen space, remove bevel on edges cheers Denis ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Hi all, my vote - number one; and in order of preference; 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball On 26/10/2008, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:37:45AM +0100, Marcel wrote: >> Am Sunday 26 October 2008 11:26:48 schrieb William Kenworthy: >> > (and how I wish I could permanently disable that @##$$% dictionary >> > rubbish) >> >> You're so right! If it only had some german dictionary, now I'm somehow >> forced >> to name my calendar entries in english... *g* > > Get a german wordlist with frequency data: > > word1 2343 > word2 123 > ... > > Put it into a text file called: German.dic into > /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts > > Rui > > -- > All Hail Discordia! > Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 7th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 > + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown > + Whatever you do will be insignificant, > | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi > + So let's do it...? > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- Russ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 11:37:45AM +0100, Marcel wrote: > Am Sunday 26 October 2008 11:26:48 schrieb William Kenworthy: > > (and how I wish I could permanently disable that @##$$% dictionary rubbish) > > You're so right! If it only had some german dictionary, now I'm somehow > forced > to name my calendar entries in english... *g* Get a german wordlist with frequency data: word1 2343 word2 123 ... Put it into a text file called: German.dic into /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts Rui -- All Hail Discordia! Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 7th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 07:26:48PM +0900, William Kenworthy wrote: > While some things like the terminal keyboard (and how I wish I could > permanently disable that @##$$% dictionary rubbish) could be fixed in > software, its the softkey approach thats flawed. Replace with a better one, create a new one (which I did for Portuguese)... http://blog.1407.org/2008/10/13/portuguese-dictionary-for-openmokos-illume-keyboard/ ... or simply remove the rubish files from... /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/illume/dicts Understanding how it works is also good, I hated it before I understood how it works, and now I almost love it :) Hope this helps! Rui -- Pzat! Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 7th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Am Sunday 26 October 2008 11:26:48 schrieb William Kenworthy: > (and how I wish I could permanently disable that @##$$% dictionary rubbish) You're so right! If it only had some german dictionary, now I'm somehow forced to name my calendar entries in english... *g* -Marcel ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Think of it this way - buttons or softkeyboards or touchscreens are just another input method - which we already have a choice of and methods to change so the only real impact on the coders should be the expansion of options. The real concern is cost - things like a treo keyboard are not cheap Having used a treo for the last 3 years, the freerunner is the first complex touchscreen phone I have used and its basicly a failure in relative terms compared to input on a smartphone. While some things like the terminal keyboard (and how I wish I could permanently disable that @##$$% dictionary rubbish) could be fixed in software, its the softkey approach thats flawed. BillK On Sun, 2008-10-26 at 11:15 +0100, David Pottage wrote: > On Saturday 25 October 2008 17:39:18 JW wrote: > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > As others have said, lets not complicate the situation for software authors > by > radically changing the input methods. For this reason, I think the touch > screen has to stay. Having said that I think input would be a lot easier if > we had a few extra hardware buttons. > > In order of preference > > Option 1: Touchscreen. > It would be nice though if we had a few extra buttons though. I suggest a > joystick or mini trackball below the screen and a couple of soft keys on > either side. > > Option 3: Touchscreen + Mini qwerty. > The problem with this idea is that a small query is very hard to type on, and > a big one will take a lot of screen real estate. The way I see it the only > way a query keyboard can be incorporated into a future Openmoko device > without compromising the screen is to make it slide out from the back like > the Nokia N810. The problem with that is it will increase the bulk and cost > by to much. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a small numeric keypad > that won't take much room. > > Option 2: Mini Qwerty, no Touchscreen > I HATE this idea, because it will make all existing Openmoko software > incompatible. Please don't take this route. > -- William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Saturday 25 October 2008 17:39:18 JW wrote: > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 As others have said, lets not complicate the situation for software authors by radically changing the input methods. For this reason, I think the touch screen has to stay. Having said that I think input would be a lot easier if we had a few extra hardware buttons. In order of preference Option 1: Touchscreen. It would be nice though if we had a few extra buttons though. I suggest a joystick or mini trackball below the screen and a couple of soft keys on either side. Option 3: Touchscreen + Mini qwerty. The problem with this idea is that a small query is very hard to type on, and a big one will take a lot of screen real estate. The way I see it the only way a query keyboard can be incorporated into a future Openmoko device without compromising the screen is to make it slide out from the back like the Nokia N810. The problem with that is it will increase the bulk and cost by to much. Perhaps a better solution would be to have a small numeric keypad that won't take much room. Option 2: Mini Qwerty, no Touchscreen I HATE this idea, because it will make all existing Openmoko software incompatible. Please don't take this route. -- David Pottage ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On 2008.10.25.14.44, Ian Stephen wrote: | In order of preference; | | 3) combo : if it's a slide out with big keys ie HTC Touch Pro | 1) touchscreen : not quite as deep set as GTA02 | 2) qwerty & tracker ball : I'd rather not physically reduce screen space Same here. Though continued evolution of the current setup (#1) sounds pretty good. --Brock ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 Mostly touchscreen with a slide out keyboard sounds good. Also the touchscreen would be well served by a couple extra buttons. Stefan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:39:18 + (UTC) JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled: hate to drape a wet cloth over the party - but you do know that these kind of changes are not going into GTA03... because it's too late - 6-9 months ago would have given it a chance (though om have their own plans so you have to first utterly convince om that their ideas already arse total codswallop :) and u'd have to have done it a long time ago). BUT... you're in with a chance for GTA04 i'd bet. > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> 1) no, the FR is the best reason why this sucks really bad 2) No, too limited 3) Yes, when I compare the FR to my 3 yr old Palm treo - the palm wins easily in almost every way -- William Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Home in Perth! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 9:39 AM, JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 Would prefer 3, touchscreen plus KB, but only if it doesn't make the phone bulky. Otherwise touchscreen only is good enough. Should plan on switching to multi-touch rather than resistive as soon as chips to do that become available. It's important to keep the high-res touchscreen. And it would be nice to also have more buttons, e.g. green and red buttons (hangup/esc and answer/dial). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
3) (Please! I'd buy a thumbpad entry anyway) 1) Not 2. JW-2 wrote: > > > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available > to buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU > want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are > better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/GTA03---buttons-or-touchscreen-tp1376109p1376962.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
I was undecided but Stroller really hit the point for me, so I vote 1) On Sat, Oct 25, 2008 at 08:09:56PM +0100, Stroller wrote: > > On 25 Oct 2008, at 17:39, JW wrote: > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is > > available to buy > > now!] > > > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > > > *** > > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one > > YOU want. > > *** > > Hi JW, > > You're not posting from an @openmoko address, so does this vote have > an actual benefit? > > Do we get to influence the final design of the GTA03? > Or is this just an exercise in filling up our email boxes? > > I apologise for asking this if I've failed to realise that you're > famously Openmoko's hardware design manager. > > I would personally vote for touchscreen just like the Freerunner, so > that there is less risk of divergence in the input methods of > important software whilst Openmoko-based software stacks are > establishing themselves. Adding options for different input methods > and dealing with the bugs that may introduce by supporting them is not > beneficial at this time - once the stack is solid & stable, then they > can be added. > > (Actually, having looked at the other options, I would vote for > touchscreen-only in any case. I might potentially find a trackball, d- > pad or a couple extra programmable buttons useful, but I don't want > space taken up by a keyboard that will be too small to use, anyway. > Just maximise the screenspace!) -- Keep the Lasagna flying! Today is Pungenday, the 6th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3174 + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown + Whatever you do will be insignificant, | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi + So let's do it...? ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On 25 Oct 2008, at 17:39, JW wrote: > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is > available to buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one > YOU want. > *** Hi JW, You're not posting from an @openmoko address, so does this vote have an actual benefit? Do we get to influence the final design of the GTA03? Or is this just an exercise in filling up our email boxes? I apologise for asking this if I've failed to realise that you're famously Openmoko's hardware design manager. I would personally vote for touchscreen just like the Freerunner, so that there is less risk of divergence in the input methods of important software whilst Openmoko-based software stacks are establishing themselves. Adding options for different input methods and dealing with the bugs that may introduce by supporting them is not beneficial at this time - once the stack is solid & stable, then they can be added. (Actually, having looked at the other options, I would vote for touchscreen-only in any case. I might potentially find a trackball, d- pad or a couple extra programmable buttons useful, but I don't want space taken up by a keyboard that will be too small to use, anyway. Just maximise the screenspace!) Stroller. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Am Saturday 25 October 2008 19:08:28 schrieb Paul: > Thorben Krueger wrote: > > 1) or 2) could then keep the software stack more minimal -> no > > software keyboard necessary, so us geeks can run some ncurses/terminal > > based minimal UI and freak people out. > > Ah-yeah! I am so with you!! :-) THAT would be really srsly geeky! :D ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
My preferences, in order: 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
2008/10/25 JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > Absolutely 1 Davide ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Quoting JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > In order of preference; 3) combo : if it's a slide out with big keys ie HTC Touch Pro 1) touchscreen : not quite as deep set as GTA02 2) qwerty & tracker ball : I'd rather not physically reduce screen space IanS ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Saturday 25 October 2008 19:55:53 Dylan McCall wrote: > Something that could be interesting to ponder, with regards to the > combo layout, is Sony's keypad add-on. It is designed so that one can > run his finger over the keys and use it as a track pad, presumably via > some kind of touch sensitive surface. It's a very cool idea and could > be a useful control mechanism. > This way, the tracker ball thing could be implemented without taking > up exra space. > and being sony, is probably patented 7 ways to sunday... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Saturday 25 October 2008 18:39:18 JW wrote: > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 technically the G1 has a trackball as well, but i got to say, i have a fondness for slideout keyboards. that is, if the buttons are of the right size (those found on the sonyericsson SX1 is a bit small for my taste). ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Something that could be interesting to ponder, with regards to the combo layout, is Sony's keypad add-on. It is designed so that one can run his finger over the keys and use it as a track pad, presumably via some kind of touch sensitive surface. It's a very cool idea and could be a useful control mechanism. This way, the tracker ball thing could be implemented without taking up exra space. Bye, -Dylan ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
definitely 3) qwerty + touchscreen This shouldn't be too hard to do, I don't think it's too much to ask of OM - surely the keyboard could be a built-in USB keyboard, which would mean that all the software etc is already there. All we'd need is a way to disable the on-screen keyboard, something we'll want for bluetooth/USB keyboards on the GTA02 anyway... -Dale JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
I like option 1 and agree the the screen should be more flush with the border. -Jason On Sat, 2008-10-25 at 18:50 +0200, arne anka wrote: > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > 4) 5-way-rocker switch (maybe with two softkeys left and right) -- palm pda > > the only thing i miss right now (maybe someone figures out a hardware mod > to th freerunner -- internal usb or bluetooth? it could live where the > lanyard hole is) > > smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Saturday 25 October 2008 Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen wrote: > Saturday 25 October 2008 JW wrote: > > Ok Community, > > > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available > > to buy now!] > > > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > 3) The touch screen already works, and the addition of a small form factor > qwerty keyboard underneath a smaller screen* would add functionality, make > it more geek-friendly, and also force the developers of the different UIs > to think resolution independence, which is good for the whole reference > framework thing that OpenMoko also does. > > * This has already been aired by people like rasterman - hvga or the like > is sufficient for the iPhone's, so why not us? > > ..Dan // Leinir.. > http://leinir.dk/ A small extra note: If this would push the release of the phone back three or even six months compared to the other two options, i believe the end product would be worth the wait. :) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Number 3 ) Combo shawn sullivan wrote: > > I vote for option 3 (everything else on the market is now a touch > screen, we can't take a step back) > > JW wrote: >> Ok Community, >> >> vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone >> >> [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available >> to buy >> now!] >> >> 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone >> 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve >> 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 >> >> *** >> Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU >> want. >> *** >> >> For myself my vote is >> >> 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are >> better) >> 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible >> 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now >> >> ciao >> JW > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/GTA03---buttons-or-touchscreen-tp1376109p1376267.html Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
#3 for sure. On October 25, 2008, JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU > want. *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are > better) 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Gabriel A. Devenyi B.Eng. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
I vote for option 3 (everything else on the market is now a touch screen, we can't take a step back) JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
In order of preference: Combination keyboard + qwerty Keyboard + trackball Touchscreen (Preferably with a few extra physical buttons though) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Thorben Krueger wrote: > 1) or 2) could then keep the software stack more minimal -> no > software keyboard necessary, so us geeks can run some ncurses/terminal > based minimal UI and freak people out. > Ah-yeah! I am so with you!! :-) ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Touch Screen only but without borders - like in Iphone. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:39:18 + (UTC) JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now -- Armin ranjbar , System Administrator ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
2) or 3) could then keep the software stack more minimal -> no software keyboard necessary, so us geeks can run some ncurses/terminal based minimal UI and freak people out. (forget my previous mail, nasty brainfart there) 2008/10/25 Thorben Krueger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 1) or 2) could then keep the software stack more minimal -> no > software keyboard necessary, so us geeks can run some ncurses/terminal > based minimal UI and freak people out. > > 2008/10/25 Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >>> 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve >>> >> >> Would be my option. >> >> Paul >> >> -- >> Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. >> -Publius Syrus >> >> http://www.nlpagan.net >> Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04 >> >> >> ___ >> Openmoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
1) or 2) could then keep the software stack more minimal -> no software keyboard necessary, so us geeks can run some ncurses/terminal based minimal UI and freak people out. 2008/10/25 Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > >> 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve >> > > Would be my option. > > Paul > > -- > Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. > -Publius Syrus > > http://www.nlpagan.net > Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04 > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Combo would be great (maybe some kind of these slide-display-sideways things). TS only would work too, if a combo is too much. Am 25.10.2008 18:39, JW schrieb: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
3) Definitely keyboard and touchscreen. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
> 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > Would be my option. Paul -- Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it. -Publius Syrus http://www.nlpagan.net Running on Mandriva Linux 2008 and Ubuntu 8.04 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Best: Combo Could also live with: TS only -Marcel Am Saturday 25 October 2008 18:39:18 schrieb JW: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU > want. *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are > better) 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
On of the: > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Saturday 25 October 2008 JW wrote: > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 3) The touch screen already works, and the addition of a small form factor qwerty keyboard underneath a smaller screen* would add functionality, make it more geek-friendly, and also force the developers of the different UIs to think resolution independence, which is good for the whole reference framework thing that OpenMoko also does. * This has already been aired by people like rasterman - hvga or the like is sufficient for the iPhone's, so why not us? ..Dan // Leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen
Wiadomość Oryginalna Od: JW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Do: community@lists.openmoko.org Data: 25 października 2008 18:39 Temat: GTA03 - buttons or touchscreen > Ok Community, > > vote and tell OM what you want for the next phone > > [also realise this is still a long time away and Freerunner is available to > buy > now!] > > 1) touchscreen (no qwerty buttons) - freerunner, HTC Orbit, iphone > 2) qwerty keyboard and tracker ball - blackberry curve > 3) combination touchscreen plus qwerty - G1 > > *** > Please don't write endless pages about why - just indicate which one YOU want. > *** > > For myself my vote is > > 1) no, my HTC orbit experience was horrible (yes, i realise there are better) > 2) yes, my preferred user input method - intuitive, fast, flexible > 3) no, i think combo is too much to ask from OM right now > > ciao > JW > > > ___ > Openmoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community In order of preference: combo keyboard touchscreen Tactile feedback doesn't need so much focus on the things done and is also more accurate in the most common phone use cases. Not all, though. I think you should also specify whether it'd be a qwerty keyboard and multitouch screen. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
