Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-05-05 Thread Marnix Klooster

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Steve, others,

About that 8GB micro-SD card (which someone confusingly called a miniSD
card earlier in this thread), steve wrote once upon a time:

| I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
| Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy
| dance.
|
| He'll be back soon. We will revert on this.

Then David Samblas Martinez wrote on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM:

| I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD

And then quickly steve replied:

| The Happy dance
|
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

And much fun ensued. :-)

However, does this mean that at least one 8GB microSD card has been
tested and verified working?

Thanks!

Groetjes,
~ 
Marnix
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Michael 8gb test (was RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-05-05 Thread steve
I'm not sure if we did this yet. I'll check

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marnix Klooster
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 12:47 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Steve, others,

About that 8GB micro-SD card (which someone confusingly called a miniSD
card earlier in this thread), steve wrote once upon a time:

| I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
| Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy
| dance.
|
| He'll be back soon. We will revert on this.

Then David Samblas Martinez wrote on Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM:

| I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD

And then quickly steve replied:

| The Happy dance
|
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

And much fun ensued. :-)

However, does this mean that at least one 8GB microSD card has been
tested and verified working?

Thanks!

Groetjes,
~ 
Marnix
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=lpFv
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Re: Any compliant headset? (Re: was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-19 Thread Stroller


On 18 Apr 2008, at 23:12, Shawn Rutledge wrote:


I would like to see future devices using a 3.5mm jack.  IMO the
important thing is high-quality music, whereas if you just want to
talk on the phone, Bluetooth headsets are more popular these days.


I haven't found a bluetooth headset which comfortably fits my ear.  
I'd be happy to use an over-the-head headset (like this shape http:// 
www.provu.co.uk/imgs/snom_headset_monaural_new.jpg) if I could find  
one that did bluetooth (in fact, I'd buy at least two) but right now  
I don't consider bluetooth an option.


All I want to do is to be able to use some of the time I spend  
driving to return my customers' phonecalls. If this can be solved  
with a wired pair of earbuds (featuring a microphone on the cable)  
which costs pennies to produce then (to me) this is obviously better  
than experimenting with several bluetooth headsets which, a week or  
two after purchase, start dropping off my ear in the middle of a  
conversation. Right now, all I do when I get in my car is take my  
phone out of my shirt pocket, pick up the earbuds' cable from the  
passenger seat and plug it in; it takes 2 seconds to clip the  
microphone to my shirt collar.


As I said before, each of the last 3 phones I've bought have come  
with a wired headset, but each has use a different proprietary  
connector.
(examples: http://www.e-batteries.com.au/images/B_XAD0005_03.jpg  
http://www.cellexcompany.com/ebay/datacables/datacable.gif)
For this reason I just assumed that one would require a headset  
designed specifically for the Neo.


For those up in arms over paying for my cabled headset because it's  
an accessory they'll never use, I hope that FIC will consider the  
cost-benefit of this - you can undoubtedly buy such headsets,  
properly wired with the appropriate connector, for cents when you are  
buying them by the thousand from a factory in China. If device owners  
must buy them as a separate item then the price must reflect the  
hassle of stocking  shipping them, and will be MUCH increased.


Stroller.


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-19 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

Stroller wrote:

On 13 Apr 2008, at 17:44, steve wrote:

Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory.

The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add 
some

other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
like in the box ...


A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.

I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.

Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay 
extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone 
purchases.


I agree... Btw, I hope it will be possible also to talk while driving 
without the headset, but using hands-free (software) feature.


Simply the phone could increase both its speaker volume and its 
microphone sensitivity.


--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update (Colours)

2008-04-18 Thread Stroller


On 14 Apr 2008, at 19:09, steve wrote:

...
  Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
ratios, then I can easily add colors.


Yellow  blue!!

Stroller.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/18/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 13 Apr 2008, at 17:44, steve wrote:

 Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory.
 
  The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add
  some
  other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.
 
  Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
  like in the box ...
 

 A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.

 I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.

 Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay
 extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone
 purchases.





I agree. We all need a good, wired, stereo handsfree. I don't think Openmoko
designed their own handsfree. It should be possible to buy it somewhere. We
just need to know brand/model.

But since most of us will need to buy one anyway, it would be great if it
was included.
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Stroller


On 13 Apr 2008, at 17:44, steve wrote:


Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory.

The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to  
add some

other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.

Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they  
would

like in the box ...


A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.

I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.

Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly)  
pay extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last  
3 phone purchases.


Stroller.


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update (Colours)

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/18/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On 14 Apr 2008, at 19:09, steve wrote:

  ...
   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
  get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
  ratios, then I can easily add colors.
 

 Yellow  blue!!

 Stroller.




White with blue (instead of orange)  :)

Each answer will be unique. Anyway, I think the current one looks great, and
I really want the hardware... the colour on my dev kit is not important to
me:)
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread joerg
Am Fr  18. April 2008 schrieb steve:
 It's the first one, michale will detail all of these when he posts his
 getting started web page, complete with pictures, diagrams etc
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe
 Guillebert
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:49 PM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
 steve wrote:
 
  USB cable is in.
 
 
 Hello all,
 
 Sorry to keep that up but I see three kind of potential cables and I'm 
 not sure which one you're talking about :
 
 - First is male USB A = freerunner (USB mini AB, I believe) : it is 
 used for charging and using usb slave functions (usb mass storage...). 
 This one is pretty standard and can be found in every shop. I'm guessing 
 you're talking about this one.
 
 - The second is a female USB A = freerunner. It's used for host mode 
 (for example, plugging a usb key or keyboard to the neo. I've got no 
 idea if it is easy to find that one in a shop.
 
 - The third one is the famous Y cable, that is pretty much the same as 
 #2 except it gets an additional male USB A connector in order to provide 
 current to the neo (from any charger) while using host mode.

Plus those notorious 47k ID R, plus 2 x 15K pulldown on data D+ D-. That's the 
*real* magic of the famous Y-cable ;-)


 It doesn't  
 seem very straightforward to use (a three-way cable ?) but covers all 
 the cases of cable #2 (hence it is more universal). 

Clearly spoken it breaks USB-specs when used without external power source, as 
a replacement for cable #2. The 15k pulldowns shouldn't be there because 
Freerunner is doing the pulldown when powering the USB-jack. So with Y-cable 
you get 7.5k pulldown instead of 15k. Probably no problem, just for the 
record.

 It definitively  
 cannot be found in a shop and I guess this involves a cutter and some 
 dirty electronics to make one.

And a rare 5-pin mini-usb-jack to access the ID-pin :-/ (for the 47k)

 
 I hope I'm making this clearer, and wonder what we can expect in the 
 final package ?


/jOERG

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread thomasg
We all? At least not me.
There are a bunch of wired headsets, headphones, I never used one of it.
I also haven't ever seen somebody walking around with a wired headset in the
last 3 years.
Imho that's one of the most useless accesoires that comes with mobiles.
If I want to listen to music, I'll take my good headphones, if I want to do
a call, I use my bluetooth headset.
I can't see a most of us here. Most of us won't need a headset at all,
some will, and some of them don't want it wired.
So get it yourself if you want to pay for it. I don't.
Why do you need a brand? Just get a headset with a 2.5mm plug, it should
work.

On 4/18/08, Flemming Richter Mikkelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 4/18/08, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
  On 13 Apr 2008, at 17:44, steve wrote:
 
  Not sure I understand what you mean by final Inventory.
  
   The STANDARD box contents will be a Phone and Battery. I expect to add
   some
   other goodies, but only for the first few thousand buyers.
  
   Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they
   would
   like in the box ...
  
 
  A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.
 
  I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.
 
  Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay
  extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone
  purchases.





 I agree. We all need a good, wired, stereo handsfree. I don't think
 Openmoko designed their own handsfree. It should be possible to buy it
 somewhere. We just need to know brand/model.

 But since most of us will need to buy one anyway, it would be great if it
 was included.
 --
 Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
 http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

 Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
On 4/18/08, thomasg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 We all? At least not me.
 There are a bunch of wired headsets, headphones, I never used one of it.
 I also haven't ever seen somebody walking around with a wired headset in
 the last 3 years.
 Imho that's one of the most useless accesoires that comes with mobiles.
 If I want to listen to music, I'll take my good headphones, if I want to
 do a call, I use my bluetooth headset.
 I can't see a most of us here. Most of us won't need a headset at all,
 some will, and some of them don't want it wired.
 So get it yourself if you want to pay for it. I don't.
 Why do you need a brand? Just get a headset with a 2.5mm plug, it should
 work.



OK. I was a bit to fast here. Sorry. I should be more careful about what I
write:)
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Gilles Casse

thomasg wrote:

We all? At least not me.
There are a bunch of wired headsets, headphones, I never used one of it.
I also haven't ever seen somebody walking around with a wired headset in 
the last 3 years.

Imho that's one of the most useless accesoires that comes with mobiles.
If I want to listen to music, I'll take my good headphones, if I want to 
do a call, I use my bluetooth headset.
I can't see a most of us here. Most of us won't need a headset at all, 
some will, and some of them don't want it wired.

So get it yourself if you want to pay for it. I don't.
Why do you need a brand? Just get a headset with a 2.5mm plug, it should 
work.




Hello,
I exclusively use the neo1973 with a headset for voice synthesis feedback.
When I lost the original headset, I bought three other ones elsewhere : 
none of them was compliant with the Neo. Thankfully, I retrieved the 
lost original headset...

Gilles



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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread Steven Kurylo
  A headset is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to me.

  I need to be able to talk whilst I drive sometimes.

  Of course, if you make it an optional accessory I will (reluctantly) pay
 extra to purchase it, but a headset has been included in my last 3 phone
 purchases.

You do realize the cost of the headset would be included in the phone
right?  So its either we pay more for a neo, and everyone gets a
headset they might throw into the bin, or everyone pays less for a neo
and those people who need a new headset can buy one.

When you're neo arrived take it to the store.  After showing them how
cool it is, try a few headsets out and buy the one you want.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-18 Thread thomasg
What you wrote, Gilles, is a problem. I can't imagine, that FIC produced
headsets that would fit for the neo only (why should they?), so I strongly
assume that the headset is a standard device. Maybe you should describe what
exactly didn't work, so we can try to figure out what the problem is.
I can only guess: it could be a problem with the alsa settings, or maybe the
impedance of the headsets was just different.

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 thomasg wrote:

  We all? At least not me.
  There are a bunch of wired headsets, headphones, I never used one of it.
  I also haven't ever seen somebody walking around with a wired headset in
  the last 3 years.
  Imho that's one of the most useless accesoires that comes with mobiles.
  If I want to listen to music, I'll take my good headphones, if I want to
  do a call, I use my bluetooth headset.
  I can't see a most of us here. Most of us won't need a headset at all,
  some will, and some of them don't want it wired.
  So get it yourself if you want to pay for it. I don't.
  Why do you need a brand? Just get a headset with a 2.5mm plug, it should
  work.
 
 
 Hello,
 I exclusively use the neo1973 with a headset for voice synthesis feedback.
 When I lost the original headset, I bought three other ones elsewhere :
 none of them was compliant with the Neo. Thankfully, I retrieved the lost
 original headset...
 Gilles




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Any compliant headset? (Re: was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-18 Thread Gilles Casse

thomasg wrote:
What you wrote, Gilles, is a problem. I can't imagine, that FIC produced 
headsets that would fit for the neo only (why should they?), so I 
strongly assume that the headset is a standard device. Maybe you should 
describe what exactly didn't work, so we can try to figure out what the 
problem is.
I can only guess: it could be a problem with the alsa settings, or maybe 
the impedance of the headsets was just different.




Hi Thomas, all,

Publish please urls where a compliant headset (2.5mm, 65 ohms, stereo, 
mic?) can be bought online. If there is no compliant headset, the issue 
will be at least identified, hopefully first step before resolution :-) .


I tried 3 earphones: the first one was unusable, due to low impedance as 
pointed out by Joerg's answer:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/013791.html

I did not find a 2.5mm, 65 ohms stereo earphone, and fall back to check 
two 3.5mm, 65 ohms Sennheiser earphones plus a 3.5/2.5mm adapter. The 
audio volume is correct, but now only one ear has audio.


Gilles


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Re: Any compliant headset? (Re: was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-18 Thread Richard Reichenbacher
I noticed only one headphone getting sound when I was using a 3.5-2.5  
adapter with a motorola phone a while ago.  I would just jiggle the  
connection or reinsert the 3.5 slowly and it would work.  Maybe you're  
experiencing the same thing from a similar crappy adapter.



On Apr 18, 2008, at 2:15 PM, Gilles Casse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


thomasg wrote:
What you wrote, Gilles, is a problem. I can't imagine, that FIC  
produced headsets that would fit for the neo only (why should  
they?), so I strongly assume that the headset is a standard device.  
Maybe you should describe what exactly didn't work, so we can try  
to figure out what the problem is.
I can only guess: it could be a problem with the alsa settings, or  
maybe the impedance of the headsets was just different.


Hi Thomas, all,

Publish please urls where a compliant headset (2.5mm, 65 ohms,  
stereo, mic?) can be bought online. If there is no compliant  
headset, the issue will be at least identified, hopefully first step  
before resolution :-) .


I tried 3 earphones: the first one was unusable, due to low  
impedance as pointed out by Joerg's answer:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/013791.html

I did not find a 2.5mm, 65 ohms stereo earphone, and fall back to  
check two 3.5mm, 65 ohms Sennheiser earphones plus a 3.5/2.5mm  
adapter. The audio volume is correct, but now only one ear has audio.


Gilles


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Re: Any compliant headset? (Re: was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-18 Thread Shawn Rutledge
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 2:54 PM, Richard Reichenbacher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I noticed only one headphone getting sound when I was using a 3.5-2.5
 adapter with a motorola phone a while ago.  I would just jiggle the
 connection or reinsert the 3.5 slowly and it would work.  Maybe you're
 experiencing the same thing from a similar crappy adapter.

I have also had this happen with an adapter I got from Fry's.  It
worked as badly with my Zaurus as it did with phones (and I haven't
tried on the Neo).  The actual Motorola adapter (a short cable with a
2.5mm right-angle plug on one end and 3.5mm jack on the other end)
works much better with the devices I have tried.

I would like to see future devices using a 3.5mm jack.  IMO the
important thing is high-quality music, whereas if you just want to
talk on the phone, Bluetooth headsets are more popular these days.
(And BT is not as good for music because of the lossy compression.)
It's very nice to be able to directly plug in ordinary good-quality
headphones for music.

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Re: Any compliant headset? (Re: was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-18 Thread Bastian Muck

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Gilles,

i got a headset with 2,5mm with my HTC SDA2 (SDAII). Probably you might 
find one when searching with this.


For example here: http://www.mygift.com/htc/htc-SDA-headset.html

Greetings Bastian

Gilles Casse schrieb:
| thomasg wrote:
| What you wrote, Gilles, is a problem. I can't imagine, that FIC 
produced headsets that would fit for the neo only (why should they?), so 
I strongly assume that the headset is a standard device. Maybe you 
should describe what exactly didn't work, so we can try to figure out 
what the problem is.
| I can only guess: it could be a problem with the alsa settings, or 
maybe the impedance of the headsets was just different.

|
|
| Hi Thomas, all,
|
| Publish please urls where a compliant headset (2.5mm, 65 ohms, stereo, 
mic?) can be bought online. If there is no compliant headset, the issue 
will be at least identified, hopefully first step before resolution :-) .

|
| I tried 3 earphones: the first one was unusable, due to low impedance 
as pointed out by Joerg's answer:

| http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-March/013791.html
|
| I did not find a 2.5mm, 65 ohms stereo earphone, and fall back to 
check two 3.5mm, 65 ohms Sennheiser earphones plus a 3.5/2.5mm adapter. 
The audio volume is correct, but now only one ear has audio.

|
| Gilles
|
|
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-17 Thread steve
mini usb to USB. 

 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ivo Anjo
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:32 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

Hi.

Is this the mini-usb (on OM side) -- usb (pc side), or the Y usb cable for
usb host?

Ivo

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:43 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

USB cable is in.

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
Billaudelle
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:41 AM


To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

My opinion:

+ USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice with
a self-made cable...
+ pouch
+ lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...)

- no stylus
- no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive)
- no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...)

cheers
Sebastian

Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: 

 
I totally agree with you, Marco!
But I would like to add two important things:
-The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It
will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it,
because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit.
 
-The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
(depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 
 
Two notices for optional gadgets:
-Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part,
and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)
 
-Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Kevin
 
 
Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan
(Treviño):
 steve ha scritto:
  Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
  like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
  We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
  cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your
feedback
 
 I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
   - AC Charger (better if custom)
   - Headset (with mic?)
   - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
   - Stylus
 
 Optional:
   - MicroSD
   - USB Cable
   - Lanyard
 
 
 
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1. kein ISO Standard sind,
2. bewusst schlecht entwickelt sind und
3. nicht für alle zugänglich sind!

Benutze bitte das Open Document Format - jeder kann es kostenlos öffnen -
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-17 Thread steve
It's the first one, michale will detail all of these when he posts his
getting started web page, complete with pictures, diagrams etc

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe
Guillebert
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:49 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

steve wrote:

 USB cable is in.


Hello all,

Sorry to keep that up but I see three kind of potential cables and I'm 
not sure which one you're talking about :

- First is male USB A = freerunner (USB mini AB, I believe) : it is 
used for charging and using usb slave functions (usb mass storage...). 
This one is pretty standard and can be found in every shop. I'm guessing 
you're talking about this one.

- The second is a female USB A = freerunner. It's used for host mode 
(for example, plugging a usb key or keyboard to the neo. I've got no 
idea if it is easy to find that one in a shop.

- The third one is the famous Y cable, that is pretty much the same as 
#2 except it gets an additional male USB A connector in order to provide 
current to the neo (from any charger) while using host mode. It doesn't 
seem very straightforward to use (a three-way cable ?) but covers all 
the cases of cable #2 (hence it is more universal). It definitively 
cannot be found in a shop and I guess this involves a cutter and some 
dirty electronics to make one.

I hope I'm making this clearer, and wonder what we can expect in the 
final package ?

Thanks

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Hugo Mills
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:05:10PM +0200, David Samblas Martinez wrote:
 Regarding colors, maybe in the massmarket phase being
 able to customice your case as a lot of comercial
 moviles will be a plus to fashion victims ( My female
 work college has his laptop, movile phone and mp3 all
 in hello-kitty pink!!!) but in this stage of the
 process where developers are the target, no matter
 what case neo has, meanwhile it do the job of protect
 their precious inner electronics.
 
 I not agree with the stiker solutions because is
 matter of time than the stiker become ugly rubbished
 and the hole phone become  stiky.
 
 The paint-it-yourself solution if you find a
 combination of case material//markers really permanet
 will be an original and great feature. sure there are
 some aerograph artist within us than can make very
 cool designs.

   Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.

   Hugo.

-- 
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===
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread David Samblas Martinez
Hey 
there is nothing more dearly than a happy developer
dancing after a successfull test. :)

Regarding colors, maybe in the massmarket phase being
able to customice your case as a lot of comercial
moviles will be a plus to fashion victims ( My female
work college has his laptop, movile phone and mp3 all
in hello-kitty pink!!!) but in this stage of the
process where developers are the target, no matter
what case neo has, meanwhile it do the job of protect
their precious inner electronics.

I not agree with the stiker solutions because is
matter of time than the stiker become ugly rubbished
and the hole phone become  stiky.

The paint-it-yourself solution if you find a
combination of case material//markers really permanet
will be an original and great feature. sure there are
some aerograph artist within us than can make very
cool designs.

 

 
--- ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escribió:

 On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
   what you guys actually want to see me dance?
 
 Oh hm... YES! xD
 
 and also some of my female (and even male) friends
 asked about
 coloring: the preferred ones:
 -red
 -pink (yes, really)
 -blue
 -kiwi-green
 
 -- 
 My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Peter Kraker
Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and 
start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.


Bastian Muck pravi:
What about colored stickers? I think it could be cheap to design and 
cut them to fit at the neo. I guess this could be a solution to many 
whishes for special colors. But this feature could be sold by a 
thirdparty-shop. And I guess, that it would be early enough to sell 
them when the massproduction begins. There wont be many female 
developers i think.


ramsesoriginal schrieb:
| On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|  what you guys actually want to see me dance?
|
| Oh hm... YES! xD
|
| and also some of my female (and even male) friends asked about
| coloring: the preferred ones:
| -red
| -pink (yes, really)
| -blue
| -kiwi-green
|



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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Hugo Mills
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:
 Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and 
 start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.

   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more
or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes
involved -- just to see what it would take to do.

   Hugo.

-- 
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===
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Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Steven **
For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com
They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors.

I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of
cases and then reselling them or not.

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
  cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
  making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
  then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
  selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
  idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.

Hugo.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Lowell Higley
Spare the case plastics (create an orderable part number) and have a Trick
out your Neo contest.  Grand prize?  An autographed photo of the Neo Team!
Or perhaps the remains of a Neo after the destructive tests.  If I could
buy an extra case for around US$20 to $30, I'd probably give it a whirl.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 3:05 AM, David Samblas Martinez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hey
 there is nothing more dearly than a happy developer
 dancing after a successfull test. :)

 Regarding colors, maybe in the massmarket phase being
 able to customice your case as a lot of comercial
 moviles will be a plus to fashion victims ( My female
 work college has his laptop, movile phone and mp3 all
 in hello-kitty pink!!!) but in this stage of the
 process where developers are the target, no matter
 what case neo has, meanwhile it do the job of protect
 their precious inner electronics.

 I not agree with the stiker solutions because is
 matter of time than the stiker become ugly rubbished
 and the hole phone become  stiky.

 The paint-it-yourself solution if you find a
 combination of case material//markers really permanet
 will be an original and great feature. sure there are
 some aerograph artist within us than can make very
 cool designs.




 --- ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 escribió:

  On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  
what you guys actually want to see me dance?
 
  Oh hm... YES! xD
 
  and also some of my female (and even male) friends
  asked about
  coloring: the preferred ones:
  -red
  -pink (yes, really)
  -blue
  -kiwi-green
 
  --
  My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Neil Davey




>From the involvement I've had with injection molding the costs of
material (ie the plastic) per piece it not very expensive, it's the
mold tool that is the expensive part.. For one project I'm involved in
I think the mold tool was something like $10KUSD.. This is a production
quality (read high quality) tool... I have heard of cheaper tools out
of china I think (like a few $K), but don't think the quality is as
good..

Just my 2c

Regards
Neil Davey

Hugo Mills wrote:

  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:
  
  
Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and 
start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.

  
  
   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more
or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes
involved -- just to see what it would take to do.

   Hugo.

  
  

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Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Steven Le Roux
Hmm in this goal, why not Openmoko.com to sell blank case, non finished
ones, witout any painting, just to be customized/adapted later ?

I don't think only with painting, but integrate an eye cam or other
expansion pack, or wifi external connectors for example...

Even one water proof why not :)


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Steven ** 
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com
 They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors.

 I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of
 cases and then reselling them or not.

 -Steven

 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
   cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
   making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
   then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
   selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
   idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.
 
 Hugo.

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Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Matt Manjos
I guess people could get it airbrushed if it was a matte plastic case,
maybe shipped with primer already painted on it.

Seems like a lot of work, but it would really fit well with the whole
customization thing.

Maybe FIC could start selling DIY at-home plastic injection molding kits, too ;)

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hmm in this goal, why not Openmoko.com to sell blank case, non finished
 ones, witout any painting, just to be customized/adapted later ?

 I don't think only with painting, but integrate an eye cam or other
 expansion pack, or wifi external connectors for example...

 Even one water proof why not :)



 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Steven **
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com
  They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors.
 
  I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of
  cases and then reselling them or not.
 
  -Steven
 
  On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.
  
  Hugo.
 
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to enable
others to seize these opportunities.
 
So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even
shipped. I think this decision is
underappreciated.
 
The per piece cost of plastic is small.  Go price a pound of plastic. The
risk is tooling. We reduced that
by making CAD data open.
 
Long LONG ago, you had to pay big set up fees to Print a document. That has
come down over time.
 
 I want to enable a world were you can print parts. Trust me, I am not happy
when I tell people
that they cant get pink. If you want pink, you should get pink.  
 
That doesnt entail that I should build pink. I enable people to make it pink
by publishing CAD files.
 
If you think pink, then I'll sell you the electronics that go under those
pink platistics
 
 
  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Davey
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:18 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


From the involvement I've had with injection molding the costs of material
(ie the plastic) per piece it not very expensive, it's the mold tool that is
the expensive part.. For one project I'm involved in I think the mold tool
was something like $10KUSD.. This is a production quality (read high
quality) tool... I have heard of cheaper tools out of china I think (like a
few $K), but don't think the quality is as good..

Just my 2c

Regards
Neil Davey

Hugo Mills wrote: 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:

  

Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files and 

start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.





   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more

or less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes

involved -- just to see what it would take to do.



   Hugo.



  


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Michele Renda

steve wrote:
One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to 
enable others to seize these opportunities.
So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even 
shipped. I think this decision is

underappreciated.
The per piece cost of plastic is small.  Go price a pound of plastic. 
The risk is tooling. We reduced that

by making CAD data open.
Long LONG ago, you had to pay big set up fees to Print a document. 
That has come down over time.
 I want to enable a world were you can print parts. Trust me, I am not 
happy when I tell people

that they cant get pink. If you want pink, you should get pink.
That doesnt entail that I should build pink. I enable people to make 
it pink by publishing CAD files.
If you think pink, then I'll sell you the electronics that go under 
those pink platistics



One of the reasons because I will buy a Freerunner is this openess there 
is in this project. Accondig me it is a so new thing that a lot of 
person don't understand what it mean.

It is a new market, and a realy new street for an hardware producer.

I hope that in the future people will understand the value of this choice :)

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
This is EXACTLY why we freed the CAD files 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hugo Mills
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:58 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 06:32:09PM +0200, Peter Kraker wrote:
 Someone with a knack for business should simply grab those CAD files 
 and start manufacturing replacement cases in gazillion different colors.

   I thought the same. So I've picked an injection moulding firm more or
less at random, and asked them about the costs and processes involved --
just to see what it would take to do.

   Hugo.

--
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===
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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
I love emachineshop.

I thought of approaching them to do some kinda co promotion. Maybe Michael
Shiloh can weigh in here. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They do
injection molding of various plastics in many colors.

I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of cases
and then reselling them or not.

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank  
 cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of  
 making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and  
 then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just  
 selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no  
 idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.

Hugo.

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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
Well, you actualy have to design the case to allow painting.
 
Paint has THICKNESS. So if you look at the clearence for buttons, you would
have one clearence
for a non painted plastic and a bigger clearence for a painted plastic part.
 
I have made this mistake before, when I wanted to change colors at the last
minute and the painted plastic
parts didnt exactly provide the types of clearences ( etc) that you need.
All that said, there are parts on FR
that could be painted without ruining fit and function.  The back cover,
and front cover
 
The middle part which houses the UBS, ext ant, etc etc, is the part I would
worry about painting, because
of the clearence problem for the connectors and buttons that are brought out
through that plane of the device. 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Le Roux
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:04 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


Hmm in this goal, why not Openmoko.com to sell blank case, non finished
ones, witout any painting, just to be customized/adapted later ?

I don't think only with painting, but integrate an eye cam or other
expansion pack, or wifi external connectors for example...

Even one water proof why not :) 



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:02 PM, Steven **
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:


For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com
They do injection molding of various plastics in many colors.

I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of
cases and then reselling them or not.

-Steven

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank
  cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of
  making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and
  then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just
  selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no
  idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.

Hugo.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread Hugo Mills
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:07:18AM -0700, steve wrote:
 One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was to enable
 others to seize these opportunities.
  
 So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has even
 shipped. I think this decision is
 underappreciated.

   From reading this thread, I think you're right.

 The per piece cost of plastic is small.  Go price a pound of plastic. The
 risk is tooling. We reduced that
 by making CAD data open.
 
 Long LONG ago, you had to pay big set up fees to Print a document. That has
 come down over time.
  
  I want to enable a world were you can print parts. Trust me, I am not happy
 when I tell people
 that they cant get pink. If you want pink, you should get pink.  

   I thought exactly the same thing. All these people whinging (sorry
if anyone takes offence, but that's how it came across to me) about
not having different colours, but not realising that *they* could do
their own colours.

   I have no experience at all in manufacturing -- my closest moment
came when I did some work on production scheduling in a flour mill --
but I still thought it was worth finding out what it would cost to do
it. I doubt that I'll have the capital, drive or time to bring this
idea to fruition, but I might as well see what's involved...

 That doesnt entail that I should build pink. I enable people to make it pink
 by publishing CAD files.

   It's much appreciated. Even if I don't know what to do with
it. Yet. :)

 If you think pink, then I'll sell you the electronics that go under those
 pink platistics

   I like either green, or funky patterns. Pink may be a way down the
list if you're buying from carfax.org.uk. :)

   _  
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Davey
 Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:18 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
 
 From the involvement I've had with injection molding the costs of material
 (ie the plastic) per piece it not very expensive, it's the mold tool that is
 the expensive part.. For one project I'm involved in I think the mold tool
 was something like $10KUSD.. This is a production quality (read high
 quality) tool... I have heard of cheaper tools out of china I think (like a
 few $K), but don't think the quality is as good..

   This is the kind of thing I was expecting -- for even an optimistic
(say) 1000 pieces on that kind of pricing, it'd be, say, $12 apiece
plus PP (or $22 if it's $10k per mould -- front and back). That's
going to be UKP 6-11, or E 8-14. How much do other phone covers go
for? (I'm not really familiar with this sort of thing).

   Hugo.

-- 
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===
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RE: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
See what you think. The one issue might be that you have to use their design
Package ( a little funky) and I don't recall being able to get an data base
of your
Design files. So, it's a bit sketchy on the open philosophy side of things.
I havent been to their site in couple years, so lets check it out.

I'm headed up tommorrow. I have FreeRunners! 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:45 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I've never used emachineshop, but I will ask around. Perhaps some of my
friends have.

Michael

steve wrote:
 I love emachineshop.
 
 I thought of approaching them to do some kinda co promotion. Maybe 
 Michael Shiloh can weigh in here.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven **
 Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 9:02 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Colored cases, etc - Was Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT 
 update
 
 For the one off, you could check out http://www.emachineshop.com They 
 do injection molding of various plastics in many colors.
 
 I'm not sure if you could make a profit by having them make a ton of 
 cases and then reselling them or not.
 
 -Steven
 
 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe there's someone out there with the know-how to make blank 
 cases based on the published OM designs? I'd guess it's a matter of 
 making suitable injection-moulded components -- front and back -- and 
 then either ringing the changes with the plastic colour used, or just 
 selling white ones that can then be painted and lacquered.  I have no 
 idea of the economics of injection moulding, though.

Hugo.
 
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-16 Thread steve
Thanks Lon.

 Good comment. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lon Lentz
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:12 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 For quite a while now I've been reading comments from people saying that
this issue or that issue is a deal breaker. I've been reading hardware
requests and demands that stretch the gambit from quaint and interesting to
just down right silly. If this is the environment in which all FOSS is
developed, it's amazing we have a kernel to run it all on. I'm all about
presenting and discussing ideas. But the making of demands in this
environment is extreme.

 FIC and OM have come up with a hardware platform to meet a predetermined
need and market. If someone thinks some major item is missing, create a
competitor. Fork the hardware.

 In all fairness though, I think calling the release of the CAD files under
appreciated is a little premature. Accessories companies are going to wait
to see what the adoption of this phone will be like.
Then they will make business decisions about risk versus benefit. If the
phone does become successful, that is moving enough units to make it
profitable for FIC and the accessories makers, we will see the CAD files be
put to use outside of hobbiests.



On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Hugo Mills [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:07:18AM -0700, steve wrote:
   One goal of freeing the CAD , freeing the flesh of the phone, was 
 to enable   others to seize these opportunities.
  
   So, the CAD files for the FreeRunner are out there, before it has 
 even   shipped. I think this decision is   underappreciated.

From reading this thread, I think you're right.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Jay Vaughan
- The second is a female USB A = freerunner. It's used for host  
mode (for example, plugging a usb key or keyboard to the neo. I've  
got no idea if it is easy to find that one in a shop.




i want this cable so that i can plug in a MIDI interface and use my  
neo as a sequencing platform.


;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Hi.
|
| Is this the mini-usb (on OM side) -- usb (pc side), or the Y usb cable
| for usb host?

Last I heard it is miniUSB - USB A plug only.

- -Andy
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread sebbil
A normal USB cable or a cable for connecting devices to the moko?

 Original-Nachricht 
 Datum: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:43:52 -0700
 Von: steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 An: \'List for Openmoko community discussion\' 
 community@lists.openmoko.org
 Betreff: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 USB cable is in.
 
  
 
  
 
   _  
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
 Billaudelle
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:41 AM
 To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
  
 
 My opinion:
 
 + USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice
 with
 a self-made cable...
 + pouch
 + lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...)
 
 - no stylus
 - no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive)
 - no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...)
 
 cheers
 Sebastian
 
 Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber: 
 
  
 I totally agree with you, Marco!
 But I would like to add two important things:
 -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It
 will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
 no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it,
 because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit.
  
 -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
 about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
 few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
 (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 
  
 Two notices for optional gadgets:
 -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part,
 and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)
  
 -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
 the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
 openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  
 Kevin
  
  
 Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan
 (Treviño):
  steve ha scritto:
   Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they
 would
   like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a
 decision.
   We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based
 on
   cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your
 feedback
  
  I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
- AC Charger (better if custom)
- Headset (with mic?)
- Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the
 time!)
- Stylus
  
  Optional:
- MicroSD
- USB Cable
- Lanyard
  
  
  
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Matt Manjos
The Openmoko Freerunner: MacGyver Edition

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:21 AM, clare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  The pouch is very nice and closes securely with its drawstring.
  Inside it I put a piece of vinyl floor tile; and face the Neo1973
  screen to the tile, so that sharp or hard items in my bag with it are
  less likely to do any damage. There is room for the battery and the
  stylus which is homemade and tied to the phone.
  THe lanyard I did not like as the slipring fastener came undone
  unexpectedly; that is unsafe. I have replaced it with a piece of
  cord tied with a fisherman's knot which tightens if the main cord
  is pulled but is easily undone by pulling the end pieces.


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread David Samblas Martinez
I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD
--- steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB
 version.
 Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and
 then do the happy dance.
 
 He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Marco Trevisan
 (Treviño)
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
 To: community@lists.openmoko.org
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
 Ivo Anjo wrote:
  Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,
 unless you get a 
  really really really good deal, because you can
 buy very high-capacity 
  nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for
 512mb or such on the 
  neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely
 getting one of those 
  myself).
 
 I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the
 maximum capacity actually 
 supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so
 much tests)? I'd like 
 to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...
 
 -- 
 Treviño's World - Life and Linux
 http://www.3v1n0.net/
 
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Ortwin Regel
I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a
1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to
be in black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime
green and pink but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants
that...

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)

 Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

 steve schrieb:
 | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
 | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most
 | are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
 | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | My daughter requests pink.
 |
 | Maybe the only one.
 |
 | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so
 | you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's
 content.
 |
 | Half jokingly,
 | Michael
 |
 | steve wrote:
 | Ok,
 |
 |   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
 | get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
 | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
 | innards and not the cosmetics.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
 | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | Robin Paulson wrote:
 | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 |  I also would like to have - may be separately:
 |  - Stylus
 | personally, i'd want:
 | *a modified charger (if one is made)
 | *a pouch
 | included, and that's it
 |
 | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have.
 | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm
 | sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh
 | well), but include *something*.
 |
 | -id
 |
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread steve
The Happy dance   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD
--- steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
 Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 
 dance.
 
 He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco 
 Trevisan (Treviño)
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
 To: community@lists.openmoko.org
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
 Ivo Anjo wrote:
  Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,
 unless you get a
  really really really good deal, because you can
 buy very high-capacity
  nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for
 512mb or such on the
  neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely
 getting one of those
  myself).
 
 I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 
 actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 
 tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...
 
 --
 Treviño's World - Life and Linux
 http://www.3v1n0.net/
 
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Alexander Frøyseth

wtf?
This is an hocky movie

steve skrev:
The Happy dance   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD
--- steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

  

I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 
dance.


He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco 
Trevisan (Treviño)

Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Ivo Anjo wrote:


Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,
  

unless you get a


really really really good deal, because you can
  

buy very high-capacity


nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for
  

512mb or such on the


neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely
  

getting one of those


myself).
  
I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 
actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 
tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...


--
Treviño's World - Life and Linux
http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread steve
In a harlequin pattern no doubt. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ortwin Regel
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:10 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I do! Well, actually I probably won't get a Freerunner as I have a
1973 and limited amounts of money. However, I'd like my next phone to be in
black with pink parts. B) Even more appreciated would be lime green and pink
but I'm probably the only person in the world who wants that...

Ortwin

On 4/15/08, Bastian Muck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)

 Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

 steve schrieb:
 | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
 | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set 
 | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael 
 | Shiloh
 | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | My daughter requests pink.
 |
 | Maybe the only one.
 |
 | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic 
 | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to 
 | your heart's
 content.
 |
 | Half jokingly,
 | Michael
 |
 | steve wrote:
 | Ok,
 |
 |   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I get 
 | to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
 | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on 
 | the innards and not the cosmetics.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian 
 | douglas
 | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | Robin Paulson wrote:
 | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 |  I also would like to have - may be separately:
 |  - Stylus
 | personally, i'd want:
 | *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's 
 | it
 |
 | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a
must-have.
 | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo 
 | (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 
 | was but oh well), but include *something*.
 |
 | -id
 |
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Vincent
On 4/15/08, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 The Happy dance

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368



Stop that, I've been Rick Rolled enough these days... :P
-- 
Vincent
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Ole Tange
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
 
  Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

 I do! :D (just kidding)

I recently was at a dinner with former colleagues. The subject turned
to OpenMoko and mobile phones. I asked my female former colleague what
her killer feature would be. Without hesitation she said: It has to be
red. That was the ONLY requirement.

When I told the story to my girl friend she said: Can I get one in red, too?

Neither of them cared about about the size of,the phone (which I
personally find a big too large), as they were going to carry it in
their bag.

I think we seriously underestimate that 50% of the population is
female. If painting it red can raise the sales, I would say, go for
it.


/Ole

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread steve
 what you guys actually want to see me dance?

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alexander
Frøyseth
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:53 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update


wtf?
This is an hocky movie

steve skrev: 

The Happy dance   



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368



 



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas

Martinez

Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM

To: List for Openmoko community discussion

Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD

--- steve  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:



  

I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.

Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 

dance.



He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 



-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco 

Trevisan (Treviño)

Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM

To: community@lists.openmoko.org

Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update



Ivo Anjo wrote:



Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,

  

unless you get a



really really really good deal, because you can

  

buy very high-capacity



nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for

  

512mb or such on the



neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely

  

getting one of those



myself).

  

I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 

actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 

tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...



--

Treviño's World - Life and Linux

http://www.3v1n0.net/





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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  what you guys actually want to see me dance?

Oh hm... YES! xD

and also some of my female (and even male) friends asked about
coloring: the preferred ones:
-red
-pink (yes, really)
-blue
-kiwi-green

-- 
My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread steve
Ole.

 Let's do a thought experiment

 I'll sell you all the red phones you care to buy at a deep discount.
 In fact, I will promise never to sell a RedRunner and let you have
 all of the red phone market.

 How many would you buy? 

 Today, they like red, yesterday it was pink, Tuesday will be herringbone.
That is fashion.
Skirts go up. They come down.

 Nothing wrong with that!

  But for now We are choosing a different path. 
 

  

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ole Tange
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:03 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Kosa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
 
  Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

 I do! :D (just kidding)

I recently was at a dinner with former colleagues. The subject turned to
OpenMoko and mobile phones. I asked my female former colleague what her
killer feature would be. Without hesitation she said: It has to be red. That
was the ONLY requirement.

When I told the story to my girl friend she said: Can I get one in red,
too?

Neither of them cared about about the size of,the phone (which I personally
find a big too large), as they were going to carry it in their bag.

I think we seriously underestimate that 50% of the population is female. If
painting it red can raise the sales, I would say, go for it.


/Ole

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Bastian Muck

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

What about colored stickers? I think it could be cheap to design and cut 
them to fit at the neo. I guess this could be a solution to many whishes 
for special colors. But this feature could be sold by a thirdparty-shop. 
And I guess, that it would be early enough to sell them when the 
massproduction begins. There wont be many female developers i think.


ramsesoriginal schrieb:
| On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|  what you guys actually want to see me dance?
|
| Oh hm... YES! xD
|
| and also some of my female (and even male) friends asked about
| coloring: the preferred ones:
| -red
| -pink (yes, really)
| -blue
| -kiwi-green
|

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Michael Shiloh
My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely 
wants one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the 
white-and-markers idea isn't such a bad one, eh?


Michael

Bastian Muck wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)

Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

steve schrieb:
| When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
| I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most
| are set up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
|
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
| Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion
| Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
|
| My daughter requests pink.
|
| Maybe the only one.
|
| I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic markers, so
| you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to your heart's 
content.

|
| Half jokingly,
| Michael
|
| steve wrote:
| Ok,
|
|   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
| get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
| ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
| innards and not the cosmetics.
|
|  |
|
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
| Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion
| Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
|
| Robin Paulson wrote:
| 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
|  I also would like to have - may be separately:
|  - Stylus
| personally, i'd want:
| *a modified charger (if one is made)
| *a pouch
| included, and that's it
|
| I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have.
| Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm
| sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh
| well), but include *something*.
|
| -id
|
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread steve
 Need to figure out how  Cyanea Octopus does it

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070209-octopus-video.html 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:23 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely wants
one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the white-and-markers
idea isn't such a bad one, eh?

Michael

Bastian Muck wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)
 
 Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?
 
 steve schrieb:
 | When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized gold!
 | I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are set 
 | up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael 
 | Shiloh
 | Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | My daughter requests pink.
 |
 | Maybe the only one.
 |
 | I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic 
 | markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to 
 | your heart's
 content.
 |
 | Half jokingly,
 | Michael
 |
 | steve wrote:
 | Ok,
 |
 |   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I get 
 | to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
 | ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on 
 | the innards and not the cosmetics.
 |
 |  |
 |
 | -Original Message-
 | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian 
 | douglas
 | Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
 | To: List for Openmoko community discussion
 | Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 |
 | Robin Paulson wrote:
 | 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 |  I also would like to have - may be separately:
 |  - Stylus
 | personally, i'd want:
 | *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and that's 
 | it
 |
 | I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a
must-have.
 | Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo 
 | (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 
 | was but oh well), but include *something*.
 |
 | -id
 |
 | ___
 | Openmoko community mailing list
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 | http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
 |
 |
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RE: Happy dance (Was FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-15 Thread David Samblas Martinez
Well I hope you do only the celebration part of the video and those black 
things hited by the sticks are not neos 

steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: The Happy dance   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnlOJjC368

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Samblas
Martinez
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:17 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

I wanna see a video of that happy dance xD
--- steve  escribió:

 I think Michael and I were supposed to test the 8GB version.
 Actually Michael tests and I say wow and great and then do the happy 
 dance.
 
 He'll be back soon. We will revert on this. 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marco 
 Trevisan (Treviño)
 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:30 AM
 To: community@lists.openmoko.org
 Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
 
 Ivo Anjo wrote:
  Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off,
 unless you get a
  really really really good deal, because you can
 buy very high-capacity
  nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for
 512mb or such on the
  neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely
 getting one of those
  myself).
 
 I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity 
 actually supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much 
 tests)? I'd like to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...
 
 --
 Treviño's World - Life and Linux
 http://www.3v1n0.net/
 
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-15 Thread Kosa
Here's a youtube link to wich I belive is the same vid (could not see  
the one on natgeo web 'couse a lack of plugin for firefox on my mac)


http://youtube.com/watch?v=5oExwxkuT_c

Amaizing!!!

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -



On 15/04/2008, at 08:15 p.m., steve wrote:


Need to figure out how  Cyanea Octopus does it

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070209-octopus-video.html



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael  
Shiloh

Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:23 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

My daughter is sitting right next to me and says yes, she absolutely  
wants
one in pink. She also wants one multicolored. See, the white-and- 
markers

idea isn't such a bad one, eh?

Michael

Bastian Muck wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Has somebody eaten a clown this morning at breakfast? ;-)

Of course noone really wants a pink freerunner, does someone?

steve schrieb:
| When I did my first MP3 in Aluminum I ran out and had it anodized  
gold!
| I was lucky to find a place that was set up to do gold. Most are  
set

| up for clear, black, red and blue. Guy didn't even charge me.
|
|
|
|
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
| Shiloh
| Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:33 PM
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion
| Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
|
| My daughter requests pink.
|
| Maybe the only one.
|
| I suggest we make them all white and include a pack of magic
| markers, so you can color them any color you wish, or decorate to
| your heart's
content.
|
| Half jokingly,
| Michael
|
| steve wrote:
| Ok,
|
|   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I get
| to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
| ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused  
on

| the innards and not the cosmetics.
|
|  |
|
| -Original Message-
| From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian
| douglas
| Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
| To: List for Openmoko community discussion
| Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update
|
| Robin Paulson wrote:
| 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
|  I also would like to have - may be separately:
|  - Stylus
| personally, i'd want:
| *a modified charger (if one is made) *a pouch included, and  
that's

| it
|
| I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a

must-have.

| Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo
| (and I'm sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01
| was but oh well), but include *something*.
|
| -id
|
| ___
| Openmoko community mailing list
| community@lists.openmoko.org
| http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
|
|
| ___
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Robin Paulson
2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories.

  I agree to Open accessories.

  Thinks I would like to see in the box:
  - Charger
  - USB-Cable
  - Headset

  I also would like to have - may be separately:
  - Stylus
  - Pouch
  - MicroSD

maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards
at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for
80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have
the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may
not be a useful size for me.

there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i
want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if
possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come
back

the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really
necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at
dick smiths, or are unique to the neo

personally, i'd want:
*a modified charger (if one is made)
*a pouch
included, and that's it
anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source
myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Andy Powell
On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote:
 There will be two  products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of
 course)

This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store 
software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks.

The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? 



 So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1.  and yes, this is a always an
 issue in volume sales.


Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like 
that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in 
pricing terms.

-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread ian douglas

Robin Paulson wrote:

2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 I also would like to have - may be separately:
 - Stylus



personally, i'd want:
*a modified charger (if one is made)
*a pouch
included, and that's it



I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. 
Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm 
sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh 
well), but include *something*.


-id

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Erland Lewin
Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?

I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.

I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.

By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?
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Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
   2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
 How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
 normal charger?
 
 If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
 battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
 borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
 enough to fully charge the phone.

There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
to draw 500mA.

It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
around.

So I just can second Steve:
2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

Marcus





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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I RARELY plug
anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture almost never.
The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is
completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer
that consumers would feel similarly.  My expectation of a cell phone (based
on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't
break this precedent with the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle
(connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.

That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on precedent, my
expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking about it now I realize
that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make.

Just my 4 1/2 cents.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
  2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
  normal charger?
 
  If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
  battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
  borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
  enough to fully charge the phone.

 There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
 great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

 I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
 you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
 works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
 whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
 to draw 500mA.

 It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
 home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
 devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
 Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
 around.

 So I just can second Steve:
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

 Marcus





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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Steven Le Roux
if it could work with Weston UM2 :) or any Shure ;)

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
 non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?

 I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
 which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
 because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
 situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
 find one with a suitable impedance.

 I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
 key thing is that standard items really do work well.

 By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass
 audio output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
 on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?


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-- 
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Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Marcus Bauer
Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A USB
charger is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is
simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall
charger or a car charger. 

If you go to ebay and type in usb charger you get plenty of hits
starting from a few dollars.

The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB
protocol and thus can't say hey, you can take as much as you want and
I'll give you as much as I have. They simply offer voltage and current
on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug.

So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no
answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB
standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is
some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more
anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one
from Apple or one from eBay.

best,
marcus


On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote:
 I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I
 RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture
 almost never.  The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer
 to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as
 a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly.  My
 expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall
 charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't break this precedent with
 the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a
 wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.
 
 That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
 modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on
 precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking
 about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to
 make.
 
 Just my 4 1/2 cents.
 
 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
  2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge
 the phone.
2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger
 vs. a
  normal charger?
 
  If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours
 (1200 mAh
  battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that
 is really
  borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge
 won't be
  enough to fully charge the phone.
 
 There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists
 and the
 great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.
 
 I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing
 is that
 you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger
 and it
 works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a
 dialog
 whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if
 you want
 to draw 500mA.
 
 It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers
 for
 home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of
 other
 devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for
 charging.
 Finally there is an end coming to have all these different
 chargers
 around.
 
 So I just can second Steve:
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
 Marcus
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Dirk Deimeke
Hi,

I spoke to my wife (typical end user).

She expects a
- computer independent charger
- headset
- pouch

Best regards

Dirk

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread ramsesoriginal
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
 included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
 one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
 to it), I think it should be included.

 [SNIP]

Now that's a good idea. +1 on this one!

-- 
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Ivo Anjo
It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
to it), I think it should be included.

I also agree with including the charger. As for the pouch and the stylus,
they would be nice, but if needed they can be cut off.

Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a really
really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity nowadays, so
it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the neo, and then buy
a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those myself).

Ivo

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Steven Le Roux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 if it could work with Weston UM2 :) or any Shure ;)

 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Erland Lewin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
  non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?
 
  I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
  which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
  because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
  situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
  find one with a suitable impedance.
 
  I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but
  the key thing is that standard items really do work well.
 
  By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass
  audio output ('Can we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?'
  http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.htmldiscussion
  on kernel list again) won't make it into the Freerunner mass production?
 
 
  ___
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 Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Andreas Kemnade
Hi,

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:56:10 +0100
Ivo Anjo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
 included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
 one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
 to it), I think it should be included.
 
as far as I understand, the Y-cable was needed when you want to power your
neo at the same time you want to connect an external device to it.
So the cable is not needed if you just want to attach an usb device.

Greetings
Andreas Kemnade


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 12:36 +0200, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
  It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for powered usb host was
  included. Since I understand that the cable is kind of custom, and that's
  one of the highlights of the neo (being able to connect usb stuff directly
  to it), I think it should be included.
  
 as far as I understand, the Y-cable was needed when you want to power your
 neo at the same time you want to connect an external device to it.
 So the cable is not needed if you just want to attach an usb device.

AFAIK the Freerunner provides only 100mA. If you want to connect an
external usb-powered harddrive you need another power source.


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread David Samblas Martinez
count on my vote on this one, Y cable must be a must
;)
--- ramsesoriginal [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escribió:

 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:56 AM, Ivo Anjo
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  It would be cool also if the Y-cable needed for
 powered usb host was
  included. Since I understand that the cable is
 kind of custom, and that's
  one of the highlights of the neo (being able to
 connect usb stuff directly
  to it), I think it should be included.
 
  [SNIP]
 
 Now that's a good idea. +1 on this one!
 
 -- 
 My corner of the web: http://blog.ramsesoriginal.org
 
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread thomasg
Well, you'll get used to it :)
USB-Charging is fine. You can use a standard usb-wallcharger as well as any
mini-usb cable or usb-carchargers and so on.
I have some devices that can only be loaded over usb and some who can also
use a proprietary charger. I mostly use usb, because I have a dozend
chargers for that.
I agree that a charger should be included, but at least we have to know if
it will.
Also there's still the fast_cccv issue, means you have to explicitly allow
the device to charge at a high rate if the charger isn't a usb-host.
As there will be no charger included, I think this should be activated in
the official distribution by default to allow charging without hacks. It
should also be clear, that there is warranty for this method of charging, as
there is no officially allowed solution included.

On 4/14/08, Lowell Higley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I RARELY
 plug anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture almost
 never.  The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it
 is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer
 that consumers would feel similarly.  My expectation of a cell phone (based
 on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't
 break this precedent with the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle
 (connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.

 That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
 modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on precedent, my
 expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking about it now I realize
 that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make.

 Just my 4 1/2 cents.

 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
   2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
  
   How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
   normal charger?
  
   If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
   battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
   borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
   enough to fully charge the phone.
 
  There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
  great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.
 
  I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
  you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
  works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
  whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
  to draw 500mA.
 
  It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
  home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
  devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
  Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
  around.
 
  So I just can second Steve:
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Erland Lewin
2008/4/14, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 [...] the
 great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

 I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
 you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
 works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
 whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
 to draw 500mA.


Sounds good, I'm satisfied!
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)

Ivo Anjo wrote:
Finally, the miniSD card, DEFINITELY leave it off, unless you get a 
really really really good deal, because you can buy very high-capacity 
nowadays, so it doesn't make much sense to pay for 512mb or such on the 
neo, and then buy a multi-gb one (I am definitely getting one of those 
myself).


I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually 
supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like 
to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...


--
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread morricone
steve wrote:

 [...] your feedback

Here are my 2 cents:

Must have:
Neo ;)
Stylus

Optional:
Charger (Would be useful, at least for end user, so he's sure he doesn't
stress a normal usb charger too much (500mA))

Not want:
Headset (Most of them are crap and I don't even open the plastic bag
anymore, but unless the hardware gets fixed it probably doesn't matter,
because you want a battery-sucking Bluetooth headset to get hifi sound)
MicroSD (I think everyone has specific needs for his own and personally I
don't want to pay extra for a MicroSD card I will never use)

Things I'd like to purchase separatly:
- Car charger/holder
- Y-USB-Cable for hostmode/charging


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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen
I would say that it must have:
 - the phone
 - the fancy stylus
 - headset

Optionally:
 - extra battery
 - Y-cable

Not:
 - SD card
 - charger
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Custom cable and custom charger (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Michael Shiloh
IIRC, the custom cable is actually part of the charger, i.e. charger 
and cable is one unit.


If you think about it, this makes sense: If the cable were a separate 
unit, you might plug the cable by accident into a charger (or worse, 
your laptop) that could not deliver 1 Amp, the phone would think it was 
hooked up to our custom charger and would start sucking 1 Amp. At best, 
it wouldn't work, worse, it would damage your charger, worse yet, it 
would damage the USB circuitry in your computer, very worst, it would 
start a fire.


So the only safe place to install the custom ID resistor is in a charger 
or charger+cable assembly that is known to be able to safely source 1 Amp.


I will document how to create such a custom cable, and I will provide 
sources and part numbers for the connectors, but users will have to be 
careful that this cable isn't inadvertently used with a charger not 
capable of providing 1 Amp.


Michael

Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:

Lowell Higley ha scritto:

1) include the custom (closed) cable or at least make it an option


I do agree with this... Also if the cable is sold only by Openmoko it 
should be there, since it's a so important thing for using the phone as 
a standard phone (I not always have my PC around, and neither I should 
have electronics knowledge to build my own cable).


If some people doesn't agree with its philosophy, he could simply 
choose not to include it on the pack, or simply, to resell it...

Imho it would be a too closed view, btw!

2) ensure the manual includes that a standard USB cable will work.  Be 
sure to list the limitations of said cable. (I think the wiki has this 
but it needs to be in the docs that go with the phone.)


Ok, this could be a workaround, but just a workaround for me...

3) publish the pinout / construction of the custom cable.  Maybe 
publish the BOM and your source of those items.  Perhaps a 3rd party 
could make a small ebay fortune out of this item.


Of course for keeping up our idea and to help who loves self-making 
you'll have absolutely to publish these informations!




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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Michael Shiloh
I use toothpicks. Free in most restaurants, every Swiss army knife has 
one, and impossible to accidentally shine the laser into your eye.


:-)

steve wrote:


Ha,
 
Dont go encouraging me with wacky ideas I like.


*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *JW

*Sent:* Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:27 PM
*To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
*Subject:* Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 But is the software going to depend on a stylus? If so, it should be
 made very clear when purchasing that the customer will need to get one.
 Even better would be to include a simple cheap one, it would be better
 then nothing.

i think we should include a ten-pack of cocktail sticks plus a groovy 
small rubber stick holder on the back of the phone.disposable 
styli... works for me... i am always losing them anyway...


JW




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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Steven **
I think the only thing in that list I would want with the Freerunner
is the USB cable (as I don't have many mini-USB cables).  I already
have a nice bluetooth headset and MicroSD card.  Any of those included
with the Freerunner would be useless for me and would seem a waste of
money to me, personally.

Obviously this is only my opinion.  I suppose to others, the USB cable
is useless but they really need a headset or something.  Everyone will
have different needs, so I don't think you should even try to make
everyone happy.  I say only include the minimum required for the phone
to be usable.  Everything else can be purchased separately.

-Steven

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Joseph Jon Booker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:13:16 -0700
  I think the issue is that the neo1973 came with some items,
  * Headset
  * Neo pouch
  * Kickass 4-in-1 Stylus
  * Lanyard
  * MicroSD
  * USB Cable
  * Neo Tools (in Advance kit)

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Steven Le Roux
Not providing SD card could take off taxes about private copy or other
bullshits like that from RIAA and friends... as I said in a previous mail.

To me charger should be provided, with stylus, headset and pouch at least.


On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 On ma, 2008-04-14 at 13:29 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
  I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually
  supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like
  to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...

 I have a 8 GB one (Sandisk) in my Neo right now. Well, not mini. Micro.
 Different things.

 The SDHC spec theoretically goes up to 2048 GB, however an arbitrary cap
 of 32 GB has been (at least for now) set by the SD Card Association
 according to Wikipedia. Go figure. Anyway, at least up to the 32 GB mark
 new cards should work, let's see if they'll break the spec again at that
 point to sell new devices...

 --
 Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 University of Helsinki


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-- 
Steven Le Roux
Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Mikko Rauhala
On ma, 2008-04-14 at 13:29 +0200, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote:
 I agree, I'll buy one soon too, but what's the maximum capacity actually 
 supported (I've seen the wiki, but there are no so much tests)? I'd like 
 to buy an 8Gb Mini-SD card...

I have a 8 GB one (Sandisk) in my Neo right now. Well, not mini. Micro.
Different things.

The SDHC spec theoretically goes up to 2048 GB, however an arbitrary cap
of 32 GB has been (at least for now) set by the SD Card Association
according to Wikipedia. Go figure. Anyway, at least up to the 32 GB mark
new cards should work, let's see if they'll break the spec again at that
point to sell new devices...

-- 
Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Helsinki


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FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Jason Self
On Mon Apr 14 12:58:04 CEST 2008 Jay Vaughan wrote:
 But you still have to hack up a cable to make it work.  Thus, it
 should be included in the Freeruner, in my opinion ..

It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All
that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the
software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable
or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory
business.

The only thing that the the custom charger does is include a resistor
that provides GTA0x a way to recognize the charger so that it
automatically draws the full amount and [2] isn't needed.

Opening the accessory business is A Good Thing. Including a charger is
not necessary.


[1] http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11566
[2] http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/thunder/

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Jay Vaughan

It is not necessary to modify a cable to fast charge the device. All
that is needed is something like [1] (which costs US$3) and the
software from [2] and you have fast charging without modifying a cable
or relying upon the folks from OpenMoko to get into the accessory
business.




I want this cable not for charging, but for using USB devices with  
the Freerunner / neo1973 .. so in that instance, it shouldn't be  
included?


I feel its a bit dodgy expecting customers to hack up their own cable  
to use USB devices - unless there is a cable that can be purchased  
out there already that will give us this capability?



;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Kevin Zuber
I totally agree with you, Marco!
But I would like to add two important things:
-The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It
will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it,
because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit.

-The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
(depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 

Two notices for optional gadgets:
-Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part,
and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)

-Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Kevin


Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan
(Treviño):
 steve ha scritto:
  Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
  like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
  We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
  cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback
 
 I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
   - AC Charger (better if custom)
   - Headset (with mic?)
   - Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
   - Stylus
 
 Optional:
   - MicroSD
   - USB Cable
   - Lanyard
 


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What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Bobby Martin
I am one of those crazy people who use the neo 1973 as their everyday phone,
and I NEVER use the pouch.  Does any current every day user use the pouch or
lanyard?

I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant or
something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)

For me, the must have list would be just the charger.

However, to me this seems like a super-simple problem to solve!  By default
(after the 'goodies' release, of course), you just get the phone.  Anything
else may be useless junk to any particular customer, destined for a
landfill.

By default, you just get the phone, but you are given a little list of all
the extras with a checkbox for each to see if you want it in your package.
They are reasonably priced, and shipped in the same packaging as the phone.
There is clear text that you will need a Neo specific charger to
automatically get fast charge, and that only a 2.5 mm headphone compatible
with X mobile phone will work.

Something like this:
Your shopping cart:
1 $399  Neo FreeRunner
Would you like any of the following add-ons?
   [ ] $9.99 Wall charger  (the Neo can only fast charge from a Neo
compatible charger or a computer USB cable)  (*What is this?*)
   [ ] $3.99 USB to mini-A cable  (*What is this?*)
   [ ] $9.99 powered USB host cable  (*What is this?*)
   [ ] $2.99 cool Neo FreeRunner lanyard (*What is this?*)
   ...

Of course, I'm sure other answers seem just as obviously correct to others
:-)

Bobby

Not providing SD card could take off taxes about private copy or other
 bullshits like that from RIAA and friends... as I said in a previous mail.

 To me charger should be provided, with stylus, headset and pouch at least.

 --
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger. It works the same in any country. — Hermann Göring at the
Nuremberg trials
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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Sebastian Billaudelle
My opinion:

+ USB-cable is essentially! I think the nice FreeRunner won't look nice
with a self-made cable...
+ pouch
+ lanyard (this is something Moko-specific like the pouch...)

- no stylus
- no SD-card (1/2 GByte are too small, more are too expensive)
- no headset (some want big ones, others small ones...)

cheers
Sebastian

Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 16:48 +0200 schrieb Kevin Zuber:

 I totally agree with you, Marco!
 But I would like to add two important things:
 -The Pouch is more important than needed for me, it's essential. It
 will always be there, when I'm not using it, I also don't want a
 no-name pouch, because I like that one with the word openmoko on it,
 because it is simply great! I also like this neoprene-outfit.
 
 -The MicroSD is less than optional, because here in germany (don't know
 about other countries) you get an xxSD card really everywhere for just a
 few euros. Another point is, that I can buy that size I want to buy
 (depends on the money I would like to spend on it). 
 
 Two notices for optional gadgets:
 -Lanyard: I don't think one with openmoko on it is a standard part,
 and I like it :) (I also think it's a really cheap but great part)
 
 -Headset: Every ones ears are other ears: small, big... and because of
 the standard port every headset should work. I also thought that the
 openmoko (GTA01) headset has no mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
 Kevin
 
 
 Am Montag, den 14.04.2008, 02:35 +0200 schrieb Marco Trevisan
 (Treviño):
  steve ha scritto:
   Many people have voiced there opinion to me about what EXTRAS they would
   like in the box ( most of them legal) so, the team will make a decision.
   We won't please everybody, but it will be a rational decision, based on
   cost of the extra goodies, availability, and importance, and your feedback
  
  I do think that the needed goodies to have a market-ready device are:
- AC Charger (better if custom)
- Headset (with mic?)
- Pouch (well, I figure our Freerunner will be there most of the time!)
- Stylus
  
  Optional:
- MicroSD
- USB Cable
- Lanyard
  
 
 
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Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Lowell Higley
I think my main concern is I see USB Cable and USB Charger used
interchangeably in these messages.  They are not one and the same.  So which
is that we are talking about?

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Reading your email I wonder if there is a misunderstanding here. A USB
 charger is not a device that gets plugged into a computer but it is
 simply a device that supplies power on a USB-like plug. It can be a wall
 charger or a car charger.

 If you go to ebay and type in usb charger you get plenty of hits
 starting from a few dollars.

 The only and minor issue is that these chargers don't speak the USB
 protocol and thus can't say hey, you can take as much as you want and
 I'll give you as much as I have. They simply offer voltage and current
 on the plus and minus lines of the USB plug.

 So essentially the Neo asks hey, can I have 500mA? and there is no
 answer. The Neo then plays safe and pulls only 100mA as to the USB
 standard. But the Neo can pop-up a dialog asking you hey guy, there is
 some unknown charger, I currently take only 100mA, shall I pull more
 anyway? - and this lets you use *any* USB charger out there. Be it one
 from Apple or one from eBay.

 best,
 marcus


 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 00:57 -0700, Lowell Higley wrote:
  I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I
  RARELY plug anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture
  almost never.  The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer
  to charge it is completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as
  a product marketer that consumers would feel similarly.  My
  expectation of a cell phone (based on precedent) is that I get a wall
  charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't break this precedent with
  the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle (connecting to a system), a
  wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.
 
  That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
  modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on
  precedent, my expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking
  about it now I realize that perhaps that was not a good assumption to
  make.
 
  Just my 4 1/2 cents.
 
  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
   2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge
  the phone.
 2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
  
   How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger
  vs. a
   normal charger?
  
   If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours
  (1200 mAh
   battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that
  is really
   borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge
  won't be
   enough to fully charge the phone.
 
  There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists
  and the
  great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.
 
  I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing
  is that
  you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger
  and it
  works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a
  dialog
  whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if
  you want
  to draw 500mA.
 
  It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers
  for
  home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of
  other
  devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for
  charging.
  Finally there is an end coming to have all these different
  chargers
  around.
 
  So I just can second Steve:
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Dirk Deimeke
Hi,

I think you are right.

There are two main opinions on getting the phone.

The geek way and the end user way.

Geeks have other needs or wishes than end users have.

What about addon packs to a basic phone with charger?

Dirk

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Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Marcus Bauer
On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:

 I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant
 or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)

They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.

For example this one here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ


No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)


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Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Kevin Dean
I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as
well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the
pouch since I took them out of the box.

But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning,
because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part
of the Neo I find it a hinderance.

I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't
have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an
accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is
the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus
is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to
not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty
sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software
won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory.

I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I
think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to
purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would
be passing unneeded expense to the customer.

What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko
branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated.
I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the
Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't
recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would
allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of
options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently
high level of quality.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:

   I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a restaurant
   or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)

  They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.

  For example this one here:

  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ


  No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)




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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
Sorry,

I want to keep things as simple as possible for our shipping folks. So,
that's the current plan. I'll make rational adjustments as time goes
forward. Think about the 10 pack as a bulk product. That's what it is.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Powell
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:30 PM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

On Monday 14 April 2008 00:13, steve wrote:
 There will be two  products. Buy 1 OR buy 10. ( in 850 and 900 versions of
 course)

This seems like an odd decision to me, is it just a limitation of the store 
software you are using? Even OS Commerce can handle price breaks.

The same thing happens at 15, 19 ? 



 So, if you wanted 11 you would buy a 10 +1.  and yes, this is a always an
 issue in volume sales.


Sorry but 10+1 is never an issue in volume sales because no one does it like

that. It's 10+ 100+ 1000+ etc... You don't treat 11 any different from 10 in

pricing terms.

-- 

Andy / ScaredyCat

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
yes,

 I am trying to balance all of these issues and keep the ordering process
and fulfillment process simplified.
 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:33 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   let me know what you think. My inclination is Open accessories.

  I agree to Open accessories.

  Thinks I would like to see in the box:
  - Charger
  - USB-Cable
  - Headset

  I also would like to have - may be separately:
  - Stylus
  - Pouch
  - MicroSD

maybe i'm wrong, but i can't see om being able to source microsd cards
at a competitive price. e.g. i can walk down the road and get 8gb for
80usd. even if they can source the cards cheaply, i'd rather not have
the price pushed up for the sake of including one, which may or may
not be a useful size for me.

there's also warranties; if something other than the handset breaks, i
want to be able to take it down the road to get it fixed/replaced if
possible, not have to post if off and wait for a replacement to come
back

the other items may be more attractive, but only if they're really
necessary and don't put up the price for more than i can get them at
dick smiths, or are unique to the neo

personally, i'd want:
*a modified charger (if one is made)
*a pouch
included, and that's it
anything else, including a generic charger, i'd prefer to source
myself as and if it's needed, to keep the cost low

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Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Tim Shannon
That's a good idea, but for the most part that approved stamp can be
fulfilled through the wiki.  I'm sure there is already list of compatible
hardware / devices that work with the NEO.  I suggest you add your iGo
charger to that list.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as
 well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the
 pouch since I took them out of the box.

 But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning,
 because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part
 of the Neo I find it a hinderance.

 I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't
 have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an
 accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is
 the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus
 is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to
 not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty
 sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software
 won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory.

 I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I
 think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to
 purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would
 be passing unneeded expense to the customer.

 What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko
 branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated.
 I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the
 Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't
 recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would
 allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of
 options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently
 high level of quality.

 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:
 
I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a
 restaurant
or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)
 
   They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.
 
   For example this one here:
 
 
 http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ
 
 
   No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)
 
 
 
 
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
 Good question.

 

  I have copied Michael Shiloh on this mail. He's on travel now. If I tried
to answer your question I would just beclown myself.

 

 So, Michael, can you recap the charger technical details. perhaps an update
on the Wiki.  Charger FAQS. etc.

 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
  2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.


How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a normal
charger?

If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be enough
to fully charge the phone.

I fully sympathise and agree with using easily accessible hardware, but if
standard chargers take this long, perhaps the next hardware generation
should use something like easily available Nokia chargers or similar.

If it were possible to inexpensively construct some adapter cable to
existing commodity chargers to charge the Freerunner at 1 amp, that would of
course be an option too. I realize this wouldn't be ready for the upcoming
developer release.

/Erland

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Re: What should be included in packaging (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread Kevin Dean
I'll add it at some point. The reason I haven't is because right now
the Fast Charge applet isn't part of the Openmoko stack. A default
image of Openmoko doesn't support this charger in fast mode (which is
the ONLY think I'm concerened about, frankly).

And... This might show my own biases, but I can't STAND wiki. The
general consensus among commoners is that, because wiki can be
changed by anyone, they're unreliable. I know this isn't the case, and
i do assume that the vast majority of people are doing things with
good intention, but having OFFICIAL documentation on a wiki is about
as good for the average consumer as having no documentation at all.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:54 PM, Tim Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 That's a good idea, but for the most part that approved stamp can be
 fulfilled through the wiki.  I'm sure there is already list of compatible
 hardware / devices that work with the NEO.  I suggest you add your iGo
 charger to that list.


 On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:15 PM, Kevin Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I'm in the same position as Bobby. I use my Neo as my primary phone as
  well as my digital media player. I haven't touched the lanyard or the
  pouch since I took them out of the box.
 
  But I also don't use my stylus. My stylus was neat in the beginning,
  because I could use it to play with my cats, but as a functional part
  of the Neo I find it a hinderance.
 
  I bring this up because I think it MIGHT be relevant. The Neo doesn't
  have a slot for a stylus. In the discussion of what will be an
  accessory and what will be part of the package, I think the stylus is
  the only one that has an actual impact to the software. If the stylus
  is NOT included in the box, the software should be written in a way to
  not need it. I'd personally be QUITE happy with this but I'm pretty
  sure there are many people who would disagree. But if the software
  won't be thumb oriented, the stylus is NOT an accessory.
 
  I like Bobby's idea, the click here to buy this accessory but I
  think Steve has pretty much ruled that out. Openmoko isn't going to
  purchase and stock items without a profit and if it did that, it would
  be passing unneeded expense to the customer.
 
  What I think is the most prudent method to take is to have an openmoko
  branded Approved stamp. This could be community OR vendor initiated.
  I know that my iGo charger works without issue on the Neo with the
  Check Fast Charge applet. I see no reason that Openmoko couldn't
  recommend this on the site once the product goes mainstream. It would
  allow the customer to make their own decisions, still leave a TON of
  options, let the customer pick the best price and ensure a decently
  high level of quality.
 
 
 
 
  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 10:33 -0500, Bobby Martin wrote:
  
 I lost the stylus (it's way too cool; if you forget it at a
 restaurant
 or something, you don't get a call asking if you want it back :-)
  
They are $3 a piece w/ shipping included if you take ten.
  
For example this one here:
  
  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/10-x-4in1-Red-LASER-Pointer-LED-Torch-PDA-Stylus-PEN_W0QQitemZ220223455957QQihZ012QQ
  
  
No need to buy another Neo to get a new pen ;-)
  
  
  
  
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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
Ok,

  Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
innards and not the cosmetics.

 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:38 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Robin Paulson wrote:
 2008/4/14 Dirk Deimeke [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
  I also would like to have - may be separately:
  - Stylus
 
 
 personally, i'd want:
 *a modified charger (if one is made)
 *a pouch
 included, and that's it


I think for a phone that's heavily touch-based, a stylus is a must-have. 
Doesn't even need to be the fancy one that shipped with the Neo (and I'm 
sad I can't buy another orange/white model like my GTA01 was but oh 
well), but include *something*.

-id

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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
Thanks Erland,

 

  I'm getting more info on the audio performance. I'll have samples arrive
in a couple of days and test the audio myself.

Bass for music was reported as a potential weakspot. So, I have to listen to
it.  Then I have to make my input.

WRT the big CAP. I don't track the passive component changes on the board.
I'm marketing. I track the performance.

So, I'll have a listen and then make my input before we go ahead. 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erland Lewin
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 11:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

 

Regarding a headset, how easy will it be to get a third party (wired,
non-bluetooth) headset with decent sound for the Freerunner?

I believe there was some discussion on the kernel list about impedances,
which made it sound like many standard headsets would not give good audio,
because they have too low an impedance IIRC. I would hate to have a
situation where I would have to buy and discard many simpler headsets to
find one with a suitable impedance.

I reiterate that I am all for OpenMoko bundling 'commodity' items, but the
key thing is that standard items really do work well.

By the way, I guess the big capacitor that was needed to get good bass audio
output ('Can
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002112.html
we fix the audio for A5/A6/A7?' discussion on kernel list again) won't make
it into the Freerunner mass production?

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Ian Darwin
   Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
 get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what 
 ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
 innards and not the cosmetics.

In the days of Henry Ford, it made sense to say You can have any color you
like, as long as it's black. The next year, competitors went wild with colors,
leading to the frenzy of of new-car-year style changes that we put up with 
today. :-)

OTOH, today it does make sense to say it, because the CAD files are
up. And while nobody could afford to build their own Model T, today
many people that can afford a FreeRunner and that want fancy colors
can in fact build a RepRap (see
http://theories.darwinsys.com/2008/03/09/120508800.html) and
make their own cases.

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Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread Kevin Dean
The RapRep doesn't have the precision needed to build a Neo case, and
last I checked, didn't have varied enough base materials to make a
study, opaque, and APPEALING case. Put simply multi-colored cases
are purely a looks thing.

The CAD files are out there and someone who wanted to sell after
market cases and felt that there was sustainable demand to be
profitable doing it, could. I'm willing to bet that in typical mobile
phone fashion there will be a wide variety of stickers and shells for
the device long before there are new case kits.

For a single unit, it would probably be cheaper to buy a spare case
and have an automotive body expert paint it.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Ian Darwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well I apologize for killing the orange/white model.  When I
   get to place where I can figure what colors everyone wants and in what
   ratios, then I can easily add colors. For now, folks are focused on the
   innards and not the cosmetics.

  In the days of Henry Ford, it made sense to say You can have any color you
  like, as long as it's black. The next year, competitors went wild with 
 colors,
  leading to the frenzy of of new-car-year style changes that we put up with 
 today. :-)

  OTOH, today it does make sense to say it, because the CAD files are
  up. And while nobody could afford to build their own Model T, today
  many people that can afford a FreeRunner and that want fancy colors
  can in fact build a RepRap (see
  http://theories.darwinsys.com/2008/03/09/120508800.html) and
  make their own cases.



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RE: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

2008-04-14 Thread steve
Thanks Lowell.

 

The phone will ship with a wall charger. 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lowell Higley
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:58 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Charger? (was: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update)

 

I think I'm going to have to completely disagree on this one.  I RARELY plug
anything into a computer to simply charge it.  I'd venture almost never.
The idea that I HAVE to plug a device into a computer to charge it is
completely ridiculous to me. I'd bet my experience as a product marketer
that consumers would feel similarly.  My expectation of a cell phone (based
on precedent) is that I get a wall charger with my phone.  Even Apple didn't
break this precedent with the iPhone.  You can plug it into a cradle
(connecting to a system), a wall charger, or a vehicle accessory charger.

That being said, I don't know whether this custom charger is just a
modified USB cable or an actual wall charger.  Again, based on precedent, my
expectation was that it was a wall charger.  Thinking about it now I realize
that perhaps that was not a good assumption to make.

Just my 4 1/2 cents.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:25 AM, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-14 at 08:38 +0200, Erland Lewin wrote:
 2008/4/14, steve [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
   1. We have a custom charger that can fast charge the phone.
   2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

 How long will charging the phone take with the fast charger vs. a
 normal charger?

 If a standard USB charger will take on the order of 12 hours (1200 mAh
 battery / 100 mA, probably more due 100% efficiency), that is really
 borderline of what sounds acceptable, if an overnight charge won't be
 enough to fully charge the phone.

There have been plenty of discussions about this on the lists and the
great news is that the Neo can use any USB charger.

I have a Neo 1973 and use it on a daily basis. The great thing is that
you don't need any special charger, you can use any $5 charger and it
works. There is a small program out there that can pop up a dialog
whenever it sees the Neo only charging at 100mA and asking if you want
to draw 500mA.

It really is a non issue. I have a couple of those chargers for
home/office/car/travel and they all work and charge plenty of other
devices too. IMHO a great design decision to use USB for charging.
Finally there is an end coming to have all these different chargers
around.

So I just can second Steve:
2. Standard usb chargers will work just fine.

Marcus





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RE: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

2008-04-14 Thread steve
Ok thanks dirk.

Frankly, some people thought the pouch sucked.  

If I ship a pouch, you have no choice. you get my pouch.

My opinion: it's a phone sock. 

Ideally I would love to have the community
develop this accessory if they want it.



 
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dirk Deimeke
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 1:56 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: FreeRunner Pricing and PVT update

Hi,

I spoke to my wife (typical end user).

She expects a
- computer independent charger
- headset
- pouch

Best regards

Dirk

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