Re: Wiki editors

[BrendaWang]

+0.75
I am not quite agree the no. 4
In the typical Chinese company, everything we need supervisor's 
permission. Supervisor always make the decision , them, we just follow it.
If our supervisor doesn't make the devision, one thing you can do , is 
GUESS or remind him. But most of Chinese like guess than remind.
:-D

Brenda




Marek Lindner ??:
> On Thursday, 17. July 2008 20:34:40 digger vermont wrote:
>   
>>> - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the
>>> Eastern style.
>>>   
>> I'm curious, what would be the Eastern style?
>> 
>
> Eastern people try to avoid all public discussions for various reasons:
> - They don't want make other people loose their face. 
> - They are educated not no say what they think.
> - They are afraid that they get fired (Openmoko one of the few exceptions 
> here).
> - Often they have the feeling that their supervisor should make the decision 
> and not them. So they wait in front of the problem, ignore it and hope it 
> goes away.
>
> In contrast to that rumors and guessing is very popular here.  :-)
>
>
> Marek
>
> PS: All that is a bit extreme but should you give a feeling.  ;-)
>
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Re: Wiki editors

[Marek Lindner]

On Thursday, 17. July 2008 20:34:40 digger vermont wrote:
> > - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the
> > Eastern style.
>
> I'm curious, what would be the Eastern style?

Eastern people try to avoid all public discussions for various reasons:
- They don't want make other people loose their face. 
- They are educated not no say what they think.
- They are afraid that they get fired (Openmoko one of the few exceptions 
here).
- Often they have the feeling that their supervisor should make the decision 
and not them. So they wait in front of the problem, ignore it and hope it 
goes away.

In contrast to that rumors and guessing is very popular here.  :-)


Marek

PS: All that is a bit extreme but should you give a feeling.  ;-)

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Re: Wiki editors. Citation needed?

[Brenda Wang]

Yes, I agree with you .


Steven ** wrote:
> Again, probably something for the wiki mailing list, but...
>
> I'd say categories would be a simple way to accomplish at least some
> of this.  I think every application page should have one or more
> category tags that specify which distro it works with.  So, someone
> running OM2007.2 could just go to the OM2007.2 category to see
> software that is related to that distro.
>
> -Steven
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Stroller
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> Likewise I think there should be a template for software entries
>> which indicates which firmware images - ASU, 2007.2 &c - the page
>> applies to. Just as the Wikipedia entry for the Lotus Elise has an
>> inset which states it to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive, each
>> software page should say whether the article is *about* one of the
>> core firmwares, whether it is steps that can be applied to firmwares
>> FSO & ASU (but not to 2007.2, because that one is incompatible with,
>> say, gpsd) or whether it's software that can be *installed* on the
>> FSO & ASU images (but is preinstalled on 2007.2).
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise
>> 


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Re: Wiki editors. Citation needed?

[BrendaWang]

Stroller ??:
>
> On 17 Jul 2008, at 08:24, BrendaWang wrote:
>> ...
>> 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the video
>> on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I like
>> to have this.
>
> I'm unclear why an extension is needed - can't YouTube videos simply 
> be embedded using HTML? - and don't see *massive* benefits to YouTube 
> videos on the wiki.
>
> But I don't see any disadvantages to having YouTube videos on the 
> wiki, either. Go for it.
Actually , I had ask our IT do this already, let wait for a while, they 
need to evaluate it.
For example , if this will affect security or anything else.

>
>> I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many
>> people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is useful
>> or not.
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating
>
> This is a great idea!
>
>
Thanks for the feed back.
> Also:
>
> Does the current wiki software allow for templates, like Wikipedia? 
> Sorry if this is obvious - perhaps the Openmoko wiki uses exactly the 
> same software as Wikipedia?
>
> For instance, sentences in many Wikipedia articles are marked with the 
> words "citation needed" - I see from a little searching that this 
> superscript is added when someone edits the page to include the tag 
> {{cn}} or {{fact}}. Presumably there is a page automatically generated 
> somewhere (I can't immediately find this) which shows all pages using 
> that tag and this one can easily see all pages requiring fact-checking.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fact
>
> I feel that a similar feature would be useful for the Openmoko wiki - 
> it should probably display "fact check?" rather than "citation needed" 
> and new users should be encouraged to mark any sections they are 
> unsure of or any steps in the HOWTOs that don't work when they follow 
> them.
>
> Likewise I think there should be a template for software entries which 
> indicates which firmware images - ASU, 2007.2 &c - the page applies 
> to. Just as the Wikipedia entry for the Lotus Elise has an inset which 
> states it to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive, each software page 
> should say whether the article is *about* one of the core firmwares, 
> whether it is steps that can be applied to firmwares FSO & ASU (but 
> not to 2007.2, because that one is incompatible with, say, gpsd) or 
> whether it's software that can be *installed* on the FSO & ASU images 
> (but is preinstalled on 2007.2).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise
>
> Perhaps I'm horribly confused, but if my horrible confusion over the 
> different images at least has the correct basis then this would be 
> very beneficial to users.
>
> Stroller.
>


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Re: Wiki editors

[BrendaWang]

+1
:-)

Brenda

Michael Shiloh ??:
>
>
> Marek Lindner wrote:
>> On Thursday, 17. July 2008 08:25:54 Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>>> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time 
>>> for it?
>>
>> Happy to see that you bring that point up. I had a long and healthy 
>> discussion with her. The bottom line is:
>>
>> - She really appreciates your wish to help and gladly accepts it.
>> - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the 
>> Eastern style.
>> - Next to the cultural difference a flood of mails in English is a 
>> problem. A list would be less an issue if the list language would be 
>> Chinese or any other similar language as Japanese, Hongkongnese, etc 
>> (which is not realistic but should show the point). ;-)
>> - Probably she will read the list but never post anything unless you 
>> directly address her (again cultural differences).
>>
>> My suggestion: Create your favorite communication channel. She 
>> probably will follow it but not become an active part in it. Once you 
>> have finishd your discussion send the result to her directly.
>> We still try to help the Eastern people to understand and accept 
>> Western behaviour. That needs time. Meanwhile try to understand and 
>> support them.
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Marek
>
> Thanks for your insight Marek.
>
> I plan on being actively involved in this experiment and will actively 
> seek the best way to help our wiki maintenance volunteers, Brenda, the 
> company at large, and the community at large move towards a more 
> useful wiki.
>
> Suggestions accepted :-)
>
> Michael


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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[BrendaWang]

Hi,
I would like to let you know , how this Index page formed.
At the very beginning, I just use the Special Page's function , All page 
's function.
Name space :Main
Then put every link into Index page.
Because of wiki is a system , anyone can edit and create a new page . It 
growing up everyday.
So, after this , my routine job is check the "Recent Change " everyday , 
then ,
put the new page , into Index page.

I can tell you what the way I used, to make most of page organized.
But I don't think I can arbitrary judge these pages is outdated .
I 'd rather say, some are popular and others are not.

Brenda

Scott Derrick ??:
> It appears that th index is already out of date.
>
> I was just looking at this locker program
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock
>
> looked under software and Nada!
>
> Are we aware it is out of date? How many other pages aren't listed? 
> This is a big problem
>
> Scott
>
> BrendaWang wrote:
>> I am wiki full time editor now.
>> Here is the what I done these month.
>>
>> 1. Openmoko wiki system is Media wiki 1.2, since we upgrade our wiki 
>> system, month ago , I start to ask our IT put the extension on wiki.
>> For example, category tree extension.
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree
>> Now , everyone can use the tag, like this
>> Category name
>> 2.About read wiki offline (dump), actually , I already ask our IT do 
>> this since 4, July. I will push them. This function is very useful .
>> 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the 
>> video on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion 
>> , I like to have this.
>> 4. I admit that , to the beginner , it is not easy to know how much 
>> useful page , they can find on wiki . So, I make a page name Openmoko 
>> official Index page.
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page
>> 5. Then , I classify every pages of wiki , put the category on them,
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Categories_Index_Page
>>
>> 6.It's great that have many people help me to maintain wiki page. In 
>> fact , Too many page, hard to verify if this page is out of date? 
>> Even , I use google analytic , it just can tell which page is popular 
>> , but can't tell if the content is correct or not.
>> I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many 
>> people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is 
>> useful or not.
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating
>>
>> 7.I would like to have a page like for developer, everyone who is the 
>> beginner , want to join and develop software, and use this page to 
>> get every material they want .
>> It just like a book , and has catalog like this:
>>
>> Part I Choose your software develop tool
>> Part III Running your program
>> Part IV Program sharing
>> Part V Install
>> Part VI Tools used on Openmoko
>>
>> Here is the page
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_developer_guide
>>
>>
>> Actually , 6,7 is my plan now, have more people edit the wiki page, 
>> make content become more correct and useful , will be great help .
>>
>> Brenda.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ian douglas ??:
>>> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>>> I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely 
>>>> set up a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I 
>>>> will also make myself more immediately available to the wiki 
>>>> editors, so that questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.
>>> Hiya Michael,
>>>
>>> Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?
>>>
>>> http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
>>>  
>>>
>>> This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
>>> employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
>>> certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
>>> trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a 
>>> hand to
>>> what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
>>> information.
>>>
>>> Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
>>> wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
>>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML
>>>
>>> One of my ow

Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Scott Derrick]

OK, I understand...

thanks, Scott

Stroller wrote:
> The purpose of user pages is generally for users to tell readers  
> about themselves.
> 
> "Hi, my name is Bob and I've been an Openmoko user for 2 years. I  
> have a PHd in technical writing and I enjoy contributing to the wiki  
> in my spare time."
> 
> Just look at some of the Wikipedia user pages for fuller examples -  
> there they often display "awards" for number of edits made, the  
> user's country of origin (even countries they've travelled to!)  
> spheres of wiki interest and probably even hobbies!
> 
> It is right and logical that user pages shouldn't be indexed.
> 
> It is wrong (and "illogical") that zedlock should be listed only on  
> Quicksand's user page - it should have a proper page to itself.
> 
> I am reminded of my previous post over a reluctance by users to edit  
> the wiki - perhaps Quicksand was being modest in not creating a new  
> page for his own software, perhaps he didn't wish to create a new  
> page because he felt that the wiki "belongs" to Openmoko or to  
> Brenda. Whatever, that information should probably be moved to a new  
> page (although I have to admit to being reluctant myself to edit  
> someone else's userpage!!).
> 
> Stroller.
> 
> 
> On 17 Jul 2008, at 16:31, Scott Derrick wrote:
> 
>> to me a site index is a site index.  If its not complete it should  
>> state
>> so at the top in bold print.
>>
>> It makes no sense to only show some of the Wiki, isn't the point of  
>> this
>> thing to provide full access to the community?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Steven ** wrote:
>>> That's a user page.  I can understand why that wouldn't show up in  
>>> the
>>> index.  Make the zedlock section a real page first.  And tag it with
>>> the "Software" category.
>>>
>>> However, I can't imagine a hand-edited index to ever be accurate for
>>> more than a day.  I'd stick with the auto-generated index pages like
>>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Software
>>>
>>> -Steven
>>>
> 
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warned from time to time that its people preserve the spirit of resistance.

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Re: Wiki editors. Citation needed?

[Steven **]

Again, probably something for the wiki mailing list, but...

I'd say categories would be a simple way to accomplish at least some
of this.  I think every application page should have one or more
category tags that specify which distro it works with.  So, someone
running OM2007.2 could just go to the OM2007.2 category to see
software that is related to that distro.

-Steven

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Stroller
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Likewise I think there should be a template for software entries
> which indicates which firmware images - ASU, 2007.2 &c - the page
> applies to. Just as the Wikipedia entry for the Lotus Elise has an
> inset which states it to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive, each
> software page should say whether the article is *about* one of the
> core firmwares, whether it is steps that can be applied to firmwares
> FSO & ASU (but not to 2007.2, because that one is incompatible with,
> say, gpsd) or whether it's software that can be *installed* on the
> FSO & ASU images (but is preinstalled on 2007.2).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise

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Re: Wiki editors. Citation needed?

[John Reese]

Stroller wrote:
> On 17 Jul 2008, at 08:24, BrendaWang wrote:
>> ...
>> 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the  
>> video
>> on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I  
>> like
>> to have this.
> 
> I'm unclear why an extension is needed - can't YouTube videos simply  
> be embedded using HTML? - and don't see *massive* benefits to YouTube  
> videos on the wiki.
> 
> But I don't see any disadvantages to having YouTube videos on the  
> wiki, either. Go for it.
> 
>> I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many
>> people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is  
>> useful
>> or not.
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating
> 
> This is a great idea!
> 
> 
> Also:
> 
> Does the current wiki software allow for templates, like Wikipedia?  
> Sorry if this is obvious - perhaps the Openmoko wiki uses exactly the  
> same software as Wikipedia?

The Openmoko wiki uses MediaWiki, which is largely the basis of what 
Wikipedia is driven by (it was created for Wikipedia, but by default 
lacks some of the special features, which are available as addons).

> 
> For instance, sentences in many Wikipedia articles are marked with  
> the words "citation needed" - I see from a little searching that this  
> superscript is added when someone edits the page to include the tag  
> {{cn}} or {{fact}}. Presumably there is a page automatically  
> generated somewhere (I can't immediately find this) which shows all  
> pages using that tag and this one can easily see all pages requiring  
> fact-checking.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fact
 >
> I feel that a similar feature would be useful for the Openmoko wiki -  
> it should probably display "fact check?" rather than "citation  
> needed" and new users should be encouraged to mark any sections they  
> are unsure of or any steps in the HOWTOs that don't work when they  
> follow them.
> 
> Likewise I think there should be a template for software entries  
> which indicates which firmware images - ASU, 2007.2 &c - the page  
> applies to. Just as the Wikipedia entry for the Lotus Elise has an  
> inset which states it to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive, each  
> software page should say whether the article is *about* one of the  
> core firmwares, whether it is steps that can be applied to firmwares  
> FSO & ASU (but not to 2007.2, because that one is incompatible with,  
> say, gpsd) or whether it's software that can be *installed* on the  
> FSO & ASU images (but is preinstalled on 2007.2).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise

Templates are a core feature of MediaWiki, so it should just be a matter 
of creating appropriate templates, and then going through the massive 
effort of adding them wherever needed.  This was something I was 
planning to address as part of the wiki@ mailing list when it comes online.

> Perhaps I'm horribly confused, but if my horrible confusion over the  
> different images at least has the correct basis then this would be  
> very beneficial to users.

One major thing I noticed is missing is the ability to automatically 
generate footnotes like you can on Wikipedia.  That would certainly be a 
good addon to have Brenda install whenever she gets the chance.

-- 
John Reese
LeetCode.net

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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Steven **]

I have no reservations.  :-D  Edited.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Zedlock

-Steven

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:43 PM, John Reese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Stroller wrote:
>> The purpose of user pages is generally for users to tell readers
>> about themselves.
>>
>> "Hi, my name is Bob and I've been an Openmoko user for 2 years. I
>> have a PHd in technical writing and I enjoy contributing to the wiki
>> in my spare time."
>>
>> Just look at some of the Wikipedia user pages for fuller examples -
>> there they often display "awards" for number of edits made, the
>> user's country of origin (even countries they've travelled to!)
>> spheres of wiki interest and probably even hobbies!
>>
>> It is right and logical that user pages shouldn't be indexed.
>>
>> It is wrong (and "illogical") that zedlock should be listed only on
>> Quicksand's user page - it should have a proper page to itself.
>
> Definitely agreed.
>
>> although I have to admit to being reluctant myself to edit
>> someone else's userpage!!.
>
> Same here, as that's the one area of a public wiki that I still feel
> someone else has "ownership" of;  rare exceptions include
> objectionable/inappropriate content/spam.  However, I should think it
> would not be out of line to copy the content to it's own page, and then
> place a short message/link on the user's page to the new location.
>
> --
> John Reese
> LeetCode.net
>
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Re: Wiki editors. Citation needed?

[Stroller]

On 17 Jul 2008, at 08:24, BrendaWang wrote:
> ...
> 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the  
> video
> on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I  
> like
> to have this.

I'm unclear why an extension is needed - can't YouTube videos simply  
be embedded using HTML? - and don't see *massive* benefits to YouTube  
videos on the wiki.

But I don't see any disadvantages to having YouTube videos on the  
wiki, either. Go for it.

> I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many
> people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is  
> useful
> or not.
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating

This is a great idea!


Also:

Does the current wiki software allow for templates, like Wikipedia?  
Sorry if this is obvious - perhaps the Openmoko wiki uses exactly the  
same software as Wikipedia?

For instance, sentences in many Wikipedia articles are marked with  
the words "citation needed" - I see from a little searching that this  
superscript is added when someone edits the page to include the tag  
{{cn}} or {{fact}}. Presumably there is a page automatically  
generated somewhere (I can't immediately find this) which shows all  
pages using that tag and this one can easily see all pages requiring  
fact-checking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fact

I feel that a similar feature would be useful for the Openmoko wiki -  
it should probably display "fact check?" rather than "citation  
needed" and new users should be encouraged to mark any sections they  
are unsure of or any steps in the HOWTOs that don't work when they  
follow them.

Likewise I think there should be a template for software entries  
which indicates which firmware images - ASU, 2007.2 &c - the page  
applies to. Just as the Wikipedia entry for the Lotus Elise has an  
inset which states it to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive, each  
software page should say whether the article is *about* one of the  
core firmwares, whether it is steps that can be applied to firmwares  
FSO & ASU (but not to 2007.2, because that one is incompatible with,  
say, gpsd) or whether it's software that can be *installed* on the  
FSO & ASU images (but is preinstalled on 2007.2).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise

Perhaps I'm horribly confused, but if my horrible confusion over the  
different images at least has the correct basis then this would be  
very beneficial to users.

Stroller.


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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[John Reese]

Stroller wrote:
> The purpose of user pages is generally for users to tell readers  
> about themselves.
> 
> "Hi, my name is Bob and I've been an Openmoko user for 2 years. I  
> have a PHd in technical writing and I enjoy contributing to the wiki  
> in my spare time."
> 
> Just look at some of the Wikipedia user pages for fuller examples -  
> there they often display "awards" for number of edits made, the  
> user's country of origin (even countries they've travelled to!)  
> spheres of wiki interest and probably even hobbies!
> 
> It is right and logical that user pages shouldn't be indexed.
> 
> It is wrong (and "illogical") that zedlock should be listed only on  
> Quicksand's user page - it should have a proper page to itself.

Definitely agreed.

> although I have to admit to being reluctant myself to edit  
> someone else's userpage!!.

Same here, as that's the one area of a public wiki that I still feel 
someone else has "ownership" of;  rare exceptions include 
objectionable/inappropriate content/spam.  However, I should think it 
would not be out of line to copy the content to it's own page, and then 
place a short message/link on the user's page to the new location.

-- 
John Reese
LeetCode.net

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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Stroller]

The purpose of user pages is generally for users to tell readers  
about themselves.

"Hi, my name is Bob and I've been an Openmoko user for 2 years. I  
have a PHd in technical writing and I enjoy contributing to the wiki  
in my spare time."

Just look at some of the Wikipedia user pages for fuller examples -  
there they often display "awards" for number of edits made, the  
user's country of origin (even countries they've travelled to!)  
spheres of wiki interest and probably even hobbies!

It is right and logical that user pages shouldn't be indexed.

It is wrong (and "illogical") that zedlock should be listed only on  
Quicksand's user page - it should have a proper page to itself.

I am reminded of my previous post over a reluctance by users to edit  
the wiki - perhaps Quicksand was being modest in not creating a new  
page for his own software, perhaps he didn't wish to create a new  
page because he felt that the wiki "belongs" to Openmoko or to  
Brenda. Whatever, that information should probably be moved to a new  
page (although I have to admit to being reluctant myself to edit  
someone else's userpage!!).

Stroller.


On 17 Jul 2008, at 16:31, Scott Derrick wrote:

> to me a site index is a site index.  If its not complete it should  
> state
> so at the top in bold print.
>
> It makes no sense to only show some of the Wiki, isn't the point of  
> this
> thing to provide full access to the community?
>
> Scott
>
>
> Scott
>
> Steven ** wrote:
>> That's a user page.  I can understand why that wouldn't show up in  
>> the
>> index.  Make the zedlock section a real page first.  And tag it with
>> the "Software" category.
>>
>> However, I can't imagine a hand-edited index to ever be accurate for
>> more than a day.  I'd stick with the auto-generated index pages like
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Software
>>
>> -Steven
>>

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

not yet. i'll announce when it is.

by the way, i'm not going to add anyone. i'll announce its creation, 
then anyone interested (including all you volunteers) has to manually join.

m

Josh Monson wrote:
> Is the wiki-editors list been created?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Shiloh
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:44 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: Wiki editors
> 
> 
> 
> Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>> I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list
> and
>>> move on.
>>>
>>> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with
> the
>>> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement
>>> (or not) on the following list:
>> I agree.
>> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time
> for it?
> 
> Yes; I asked Brenda privately but have not heard back (or have lost her 
> reply in the recent torrent of email :-)
> 
> M
> 
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RE: Wiki editors

[Josh Monson]

Is the wiki-editors list been created?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Shiloh
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:44 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Wiki editors



Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list
and
>> move on.
>>
>> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with
the
>> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement
>> (or not) on the following list:
> 
> I agree.
> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time
for it?

Yes; I asked Brenda privately but have not heard back (or have lost her 
reply in the recent torrent of email :-)

M

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

Marek Lindner wrote:
> On Thursday, 17. July 2008 08:25:54 Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
>> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time for it?
> 
> Happy to see that you bring that point up. I had a long and healthy 
> discussion 
> with her. The bottom line is:
> 
> - She really appreciates your wish to help and gladly accepts it.
> - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the Eastern 
> style.
> - Next to the cultural difference a flood of mails in English is a problem. A 
> list would be less an issue if the list language would be Chinese or any 
> other similar language as Japanese, Hongkongnese, etc (which is not realistic 
> but should show the point).  ;-)
> - Probably she will read the list but never post anything unless you directly 
> address her (again cultural differences).
> 
> My suggestion: Create your favorite communication channel. She probably will 
> follow it but not become an active part in it. Once you have finishd your 
> discussion send the result to her directly.
> We still try to help the Eastern people to understand and accept Western 
> behaviour. That needs time. Meanwhile try to understand and support them.
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> Marek

Thanks for your insight Marek.

I plan on being actively involved in this experiment and will actively 
seek the best way to help our wiki maintenance volunteers, Brenda, the 
company at large, and the community at large move towards a more useful 
wiki.

Suggestions accepted :-)

Michael

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list and
>> move on.
>>
>> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with the
>> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement
>> (or not) on the following list:
> 
> I agree.
> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time for it?

Yes; I asked Brenda privately but have not heard back (or have lost her 
reply in the recent torrent of email :-)

M

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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Scott Derrick]

to me a site index is a site index.  If its not complete it should state
so at the top in bold print.

It makes no sense to only show some of the Wiki, isn't the point of this
thing to provide full access to the community?

Scott


Scott

Steven ** wrote:
> That's a user page.  I can understand why that wouldn't show up in the
> index.  Make the zedlock section a real page first.  And tag it with
> the "Software" category.
> 
> However, I can't imagine a hand-edited index to ever be accurate for
> more than a day.  I'd stick with the auto-generated index pages like
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Software
> 
> -Steven
> 
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It appears that th index is already out of date.
>>
>> I was just looking at this locker program
>>
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock
>>
>> looked under software and Nada!
>>
>> Are we aware it is out of date?   How many other pages aren't listed?
>> This is a big problem
>>
>> Scott
> 
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Re: Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Steven **]

That's a user page.  I can understand why that wouldn't show up in the
index.  Make the zedlock section a real page first.  And tag it with
the "Software" category.

However, I can't imagine a hand-edited index to ever be accurate for
more than a day.  I'd stick with the auto-generated index pages like
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Software

-Steven

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Scott Derrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It appears that th index is already out of date.
>
> I was just looking at this locker program
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock
>
> looked under software and Nada!
>
> Are we aware it is out of date?   How many other pages aren't listed?
> This is a big problem
>
> Scott

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Re: Wiki editors

[digger vermont]

On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 10:38 +0800, Marek Lindner wrote:
> On Thursday, 17. July 2008 08:25:54 Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> > BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time for it?
> 
> Happy to see that you bring that point up. I had a long and healthy 
> discussion 
> with her. The bottom line is:
> 
> - She really appreciates your wish to help and gladly accepts it.
> - Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the Eastern 
> style.

I'm curious, what would be the Eastern style?

digger  



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
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Wiki Index was Re: Wiki editors

[Scott Derrick]

It appears that th index is already out of date.

I was just looking at this locker program

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Quicksand#zedlock

looked under software and Nada!

Are we aware it is out of date?   How many other pages aren't listed? 
This is a big problem

Scott

BrendaWang wrote:
> I am wiki full time editor now.
> Here is the what I done these month.
>
> 1. Openmoko wiki system is Media wiki 1.2, since we upgrade our wiki 
> system, month ago , I start to ask our IT put the extension on wiki.
> For example, category tree extension.
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree
> Now , everyone can use the tag, like this
> Category name
> 2.About read wiki offline (dump), actually , I already ask our IT do 
> this since 4, July. I will push them. This function is very useful .
> 3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the video 
> on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I like 
> to have this.
> 4. I admit that , to the beginner , it is not easy to know how much 
> useful page , they can find on wiki . So, I make a page name Openmoko 
> official Index page.
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page
> 5. Then , I classify every pages of wiki , put the category on them,
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Categories_Index_Page
>
> 6.It's great that have many people help me to maintain wiki page. In 
> fact , Too many page, hard to verify if this page is out of date? Even , 
> I use google analytic , it just can tell which page is popular , but 
> can't tell if the content is correct or not.
> I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many 
> people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is useful 
> or not.
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating
>
> 7.I would like to have a page like for developer, everyone who is the 
> beginner , want to join and develop software, and use this page to get 
> every material they want .
> It just like a book , and has catalog like this:
>
> Part I Choose your software develop tool
> Part III Running your program
> Part IV Program sharing
> Part V Install
> Part VI Tools used on Openmoko
>
> Here is the page
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_developer_guide
>
>
> Actually , 6,7 is my plan now, have more people edit the wiki page, make 
> content become more correct and useful , will be great help .
>
> Brenda.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ian douglas ??:
>   
>> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up 
>>> a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also 
>>> make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that 
>>> questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.
>>> 
>>>   
>> Hiya Michael,
>>
>> Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?
>>
>> http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
>> This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
>> employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
>> certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
>> trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to
>> what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
>> information.
>>
>> Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
>> wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML
>>
>> One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an
>> offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on
>> the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg
>> documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with "opkg update &&
>> opkg upgrade" being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone.
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about 
>>> openmoko-wiki-editors?
>>> 
>>>   
>> Since "openmoko" is already in the domain name, perhaps just
>> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" would be sufficient?
>>
>> -id
>>
>>
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>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>   
>> 
>
>
> _

Re: Wiki editors

[Jay Vaughan]

> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with  
> the
> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement
> (or not) on the following list:
> Jay Vaughan
>

AGREE.

;
--
Jay Vaughan





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Re: Wiki editors

[BrendaWang]

I am wiki full time editor now.
Here is the what I done these month.

1. Openmoko wiki system is Media wiki 1.2, since we upgrade our wiki 
system, month ago , I start to ask our IT put the extension on wiki.
For example, category tree extension.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:CategoryTree
Now , everyone can use the tag, like this
Category name
2.About read wiki offline (dump), actually , I already ask our IT do 
this since 4, July. I will push them. This function is very useful .
3. I would like to put the Youtube extension , then we can see the video 
on wiki. I would like to know if this useful ? Personal opinion , I like 
to have this.
4. I admit that , to the beginner , it is not easy to know how much 
useful page , they can find on wiki . So, I make a page name Openmoko 
official Index page.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Official_Index_Page
5. Then , I classify every pages of wiki , put the category on them,
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_Wiki_Categories_Index_Page

6.It's great that have many people help me to maintain wiki page. In 
fact , Too many page, hard to verify if this page is out of date? Even , 
I use google analytic , it just can tell which page is popular , but 
can't tell if the content is correct or not.
I plan to put the rating function on wiki. Perhape it can help many 
people who visit wiki , know how other people think this page is useful 
or not.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:JSKitRating

7.I would like to have a page like for developer, everyone who is the 
beginner , want to join and develop software, and use this page to get 
every material they want .
It just like a book , and has catalog like this:

Part I Choose your software develop tool
Part III Running your program
Part IV Program sharing
Part V Install
Part VI Tools used on Openmoko

Here is the page
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openmoko_developer_guide


Actually , 6,7 is my plan now, have more people edit the wiki page, make 
content become more correct and useful , will be great help .

Brenda.






ian douglas ??:
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>   
>> I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up 
>> a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also 
>> make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that 
>> questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.
>> 
>
> Hiya Michael,
>
> Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?
>
> http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
> This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
> employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
> certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
> trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to
> what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
> information.
>
> Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
> wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML
>
> One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an
> offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on
> the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg
> documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with "opkg update &&
> opkg upgrade" being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone.
>
>   
>> Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about 
>> openmoko-wiki-editors?
>> 
>
> Since "openmoko" is already in the domain name, perhaps just
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" would be sufficient?
>
> -id
>
>
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>   


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Re: Wiki editors

[Marek Lindner]

On Thursday, 17. July 2008 08:25:54 Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time for it?

Happy to see that you bring that point up. I had a long and healthy discussion 
with her. The bottom line is:

- She really appreciates your wish to help and gladly accepts it.
- Mailing list fit into the Western style of communication not in the Eastern 
style.
- Next to the cultural difference a flood of mails in English is a problem. A 
list would be less an issue if the list language would be Chinese or any 
other similar language as Japanese, Hongkongnese, etc (which is not realistic 
but should show the point).  ;-)
- Probably she will read the list but never post anything unless you directly 
address her (again cultural differences).

My suggestion: Create your favorite communication channel. She probably will 
follow it but not become an active part in it. Once you have finishd your 
discussion send the result to her directly.
We still try to help the Eastern people to understand and accept Western 
behaviour. That needs time. Meanwhile try to understand and support them.


Greetings,
Marek

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Re: Wiki editors

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hello,

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Michael Shiloh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list and
> move on.
>
> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with the
> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement
> (or not) on the following list:

I agree.
BTW, has anyone asked Brenda if she wants in on this? And have time for it?
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

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Re: Wiki editors

[matt joyce]

I'm not interested in any moderated list.
In my view it should be open to all, anyone who cares enough to join and 
post, should be able to.
I'd be happy with just wiki@, and if someone feels a thread on another 
list contains info which should be on the wiki, they can flick an email 
to wiki@ as an fyi to wiki maintainers.

I'd love to think lots of people will join such a list, however the 
reality will be quite different, so moderation is somewhat moot.

Josh Monson wrote:
> Thanks Michael...
>
> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
> community list as you state.
>
> .02
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
> Shiloh
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:14 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: Wiki editors
>
>
>
> Vijay Vaidyanathan wrote:
>   
>> On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:42 PM, ian douglas wrote:
>>
>>  >Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>  >>+1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  >
>>  > +1 here
>>
>> Okay with me too ... but I also like the idea that another poster
>> 
> made: 
>   
>> i.e. we have a separate group for wiki-maintainers. That way, everyone
>> 
>
>   
>> else doesn't get bogged down with our organizational/task management
>> 
> emails.
>
> Hmm. Not sure I want to create more lists. Sean just tried to reduce the
>
> number of lists.
>
> I envision the "wiki" list being used primarily for maintainers to 
> coordinate amongst themselves, and for the community to suggest ideas, 
> changes, etc.
>
> I don't expect the volume to be terribly high. I expect most community 
> members will not subscribe, only those concerned with how the wiki 
> looks. I expect wiki comments to come up on the community list and I 
> will encourage those discussions be moved to the wiki list.
>
> Perhaps if a community member suddenly gets involved in a wiki page, 
> he/she might joing the wiki list while that is being organized, and then
>
> unsubscribe once their contribution is in place.
>
> Do the wiki maintainers have a different view of this wiki list?
>
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Re: Wiki editors

[Stroller]

On 16 Jul 2008, at 20:09, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> ...
> IIRC these are the volunteers. My apologies if I left anyone off -
> please add yourself:
>
> Josh Monson
> John Reese
> Torfinn Ingolfsen
> Ian Douglas
> Jay Vaughan

I will certainly subscribe & contribute if this is an unmoderated  
list. I'm not going to make a massive time commitment, but would like  
to contribute where I see a need.

Stroller.


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Re: Wiki editors

[Michele Renda]

I will try to take care of the italian version of the wiki.

Please add me to the ML

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RE: Wiki editors

[Josh Monson]

Agreed, let's get rolling :)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:40 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Wiki editors

i think the word "minimum" in this context applied to the number of 
lists, not the list content or the number of people on the list.

if the list has a tight focus i feel very comfortable telling people to 
move unrelated conversations elsewhere. i'm happy to enforce this, but i

prefer to keep the list unmoderated.

Josh Monson wrote:
> I was thinking moderated to keep noise down on the wiki list, so that
> it's clean and efficient communication between the editors so we can
> coordinate what we are doing. A lot of people blanket send to all
lists,
> or send irrelevant information. The input from the community would be
> taken from the community list, etcbut either way I suppose we'll
get
> the job done. 
> 
> There was talk about someone at OM already trying to minimize the
lists,
> so I figured keeping the wiki-editors list to a minimum may help with
> that.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Reese
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:56 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: Wiki editors
> 
> Josh Monson wrote:
>> Thanks Michael...
>>
>> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination
only
>> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
>> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
>> community list as you state.
> 
> I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the
point
> 
> of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
> think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
> pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the

> topic from community members.
> 

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Re: Wiki editors

[John Reese]

Michael Shiloh wrote:
> If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with the 
> title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement 
> (or not) on the following list:
> 
> IIRC these are the volunteers. My apologies if I left anyone off - 
> please add yourself:
> 
> Josh Monson
> John Reese
> Torfinn Ingolfsen
> Ian Douglas
> Jay Vaughan

The full list of individuals is on the wiki here:
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wiki_Maintainers

-- 
John Reese
LeetCode.net

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

i think the word "minimum" in this context applied to the number of 
lists, not the list content or the number of people on the list.

if the list has a tight focus i feel very comfortable telling people to 
move unrelated conversations elsewhere. i'm happy to enforce this, but i 
prefer to keep the list unmoderated.

Josh Monson wrote:
> I was thinking moderated to keep noise down on the wiki list, so that
> it's clean and efficient communication between the editors so we can
> coordinate what we are doing. A lot of people blanket send to all lists,
> or send irrelevant information. The input from the community would be
> taken from the community list, etcbut either way I suppose we'll get
> the job done. 
> 
> There was talk about someone at OM already trying to minimize the lists,
> so I figured keeping the wiki-editors list to a minimum may help with
> that.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Reese
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:56 AM
> To: List for Openmoko community discussion
> Subject: Re: Wiki editors
> 
> Josh Monson wrote:
>> Thanks Michael...
>>
>> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
>> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
>> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
>> community list as you state.
> 
> I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the point
> 
> of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
> think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
> pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the 
> topic from community members.
> 

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RE: Wiki editors

[Josh Monson]

Thank you for getting this going.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:09 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Wiki editors



John Reese wrote:
> Josh Monson wrote:
>> Thanks Michael...
>>
>> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination
only
>> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
>> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
>> community list as you state.
> 
> I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the
point 
> of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
> think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
> pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the

> topic from community members.

Exactly my thought. Anyone is welcome to join, but they should expect 
the content to be focused quite sharply on wiki maintenance issues. 
Discussions that stray out of this topic will be encouraged to move 
elsewhere.

I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list and 
move on.

If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with the 
title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement 
(or not) on the following list:

IIRC these are the volunteers. My apologies if I left anyone off - 
please add yourself:

Josh Monson
John Reese
Torfinn Ingolfsen
Ian Douglas
Jay Vaughan

We at Openmoko really appreciate the community helping in this way. The 
wiki is extremely visible to the public yet our engineers simply have 
not been able to dedicate to it the time it needs. On the other hand, 
the wiki is one example of where the community can have a profound
impact.

We really appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Michael

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RE: Wiki editors

[Josh Monson]

I was thinking moderated to keep noise down on the wiki list, so that
it's clean and efficient communication between the editors so we can
coordinate what we are doing. A lot of people blanket send to all lists,
or send irrelevant information. The input from the community would be
taken from the community list, etcbut either way I suppose we'll get
the job done. 

There was talk about someone at OM already trying to minimize the lists,
so I figured keeping the wiki-editors list to a minimum may help with
that.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Reese
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:56 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Wiki editors

Josh Monson wrote:
> Thanks Michael...
> 
> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
> community list as you state.

I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the point

of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the 
topic from community members.

-- 
John Reese
LeetCode.net

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

John Reese wrote:
> Josh Monson wrote:
>> Thanks Michael...
>>
>> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
>> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
>> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
>> community list as you state.
> 
> I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the point 
> of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
> think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
> pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the 
> topic from community members.

Exactly my thought. Anyone is welcome to join, but they should expect 
the content to be focused quite sharply on wiki maintenance issues. 
Discussions that stray out of this topic will be encouraged to move 
elsewhere.

I think we're pretty close to consensus here. Let's set up the list and 
move on.

If each of the original volunteers agree I will request a list with the 
title "wiki" to be set up. Please each of you indicate your agreement 
(or not) on the following list:

IIRC these are the volunteers. My apologies if I left anyone off - 
please add yourself:

Josh Monson
John Reese
Torfinn Ingolfsen
Ian Douglas
Jay Vaughan

We at Openmoko really appreciate the community helping in this way. The 
wiki is extremely visible to the public yet our engineers simply have 
not been able to dedicate to it the time it needs. On the other hand, 
the wiki is one example of where the community can have a profound impact.

We really appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Michael

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Re: Wiki editors

[John Reese]

Josh Monson wrote:
> Thanks Michael...
> 
> I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
> amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
> membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
> community list as you state.

I'm not sure it should be a moderated list.  That goes against the point 
of a community effort to improve and maintain the wiki.  That said, I 
think that the wiki@ list should only be for planning and discussion 
pertaining to wiki maintenance, but should always welcome input on the 
topic from community members.

-- 
John Reese
LeetCode.net

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RE: Wiki editors

[Josh Monson]

Thanks Michael...

I agree with your vision of this list being used for coordination only
amongst ourselves. This list may need to be moderated as far as
membership goes, with input from the community entering via the
community list as you state.

.02

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael
Shiloh
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:14 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Wiki editors



Vijay Vaidyanathan wrote:
> 
> On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:42 PM, ian douglas wrote:
> 
>  >Michael Shiloh wrote:
>  >>+1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  >
>  > +1 here
> 
> Okay with me too ... but I also like the idea that another poster
made: 
> i.e. we have a separate group for wiki-maintainers. That way, everyone

> else doesn't get bogged down with our organizational/task management
emails.

Hmm. Not sure I want to create more lists. Sean just tried to reduce the

number of lists.

I envision the "wiki" list being used primarily for maintainers to 
coordinate amongst themselves, and for the community to suggest ideas, 
changes, etc.

I don't expect the volume to be terribly high. I expect most community 
members will not subscribe, only those concerned with how the wiki 
looks. I expect wiki comments to come up on the community list and I 
will encourage those discussions be moved to the wiki list.

Perhaps if a community member suddenly gets involved in a wiki page, 
he/she might joing the wiki list while that is being organized, and then

unsubscribe once their contribution is in place.

Do the wiki maintainers have a different view of this wiki list?

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

Vijay Vaidyanathan wrote:
> 
> On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:42 PM, ian douglas wrote:
> 
>  >Michael Shiloh wrote:
>  >>+1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>  >
>  > +1 here
> 
> Okay with me too ... but I also like the idea that another poster made: 
> i.e. we have a separate group for wiki-maintainers. That way, everyone 
> else doesn't get bogged down with our organizational/task management emails.

Hmm. Not sure I want to create more lists. Sean just tried to reduce the 
number of lists.

I envision the "wiki" list being used primarily for maintainers to 
coordinate amongst themselves, and for the community to suggest ideas, 
changes, etc.

I don't expect the volume to be terribly high. I expect most community 
members will not subscribe, only those concerned with how the wiki 
looks. I expect wiki comments to come up on the community list and I 
will encourage those discussions be moved to the wiki list.

Perhaps if a community member suddenly gets involved in a wiki page, 
he/she might joing the wiki list while that is being organized, and then 
unsubscribe once their contribution is in place.

Do the wiki maintainers have a different view of this wiki list?

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Re: Wiki editors

[Torfinn Ingolfsen]

Hi,

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 7:42 AM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> +1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> +1 here

Yes, this gets my vote too.
-- 
Regards,
Torfinn Ingolfsen

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Re: Wiki editors

[Vijay Vaidyanathan]

On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:42 PM, ian douglas wrote:

>Michael Shiloh wrote:
>>+1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> +1 here

Okay with me too ... but I also like the idea that another poster made: i.e.
we have a separate group for wiki-maintainers. That way, everyone else
doesn't get bogged down with our organizational/task management emails.

- VV

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Re: Wiki editors

[ian douglas]

Michael Shiloh wrote:
> +1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

+1 here

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Re: Wiki editors

[Michael Shiloh]

Matt Joyce wrote:
> Michael Shiloh wrote:

>  > Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about
>  > openmoko-wiki-editors?
> 
> Since "openmoko" is already in the domain name, perhaps just
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" would be sufficient?
> 
> -id
> 
> 
> Just [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
> wiki-editors sounds like an official title and that may dissuade people 
> from joining.
> Also, surely this list would not exclude wiki-reviews, 
> wiki-graphic-designers, wiki-proofreaders, etc.

... and wiki-maintainers, as someone already posted

I second Matt's observation

+1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

consensus from those of you who volunteered?

M

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Re: Wiki editors

[Matt Joyce]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:54 AM, ian douglas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Michael Shiloh wrote:
> > I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up
> > a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also
> > make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that
> > questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.
>
> Hiya Michael,
>
> Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?
>
>
> http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
> This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
> employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
> certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
> trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to
> what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
> information.
>
> Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
> wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML
>
> One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an
> offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on
> the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg
> documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with "opkg update &&
> opkg upgrade" being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone.
>
> > Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about
> > openmoko-wiki-editors?
>
> Since "openmoko" is already in the domain name, perhaps just
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" would be sufficient?
>
> -id


Just [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wiki-editors sounds like an official title and that may dissuade people from
joining.
Also, surely this list would not exclude wiki-reviews,
wiki-graphic-designers, wiki-proofreaders, etc.

Matt
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Re: Wiki editors

[ian douglas]

Michael Shiloh wrote:
> I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up 
> a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also 
> make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that 
> questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.

Hiya Michael,

Quick question: what exactly is Brenda's role?

http://openmoko.markmail.org/search/?q=brenda#query:brenda%20date%3A200802%20+page:1+mid:cancdihaeug2s7x2+state:results
This leads me to believe it's Brenda's full-time job (as in,
employment), to be the wiki editor, organize the articles, etc., so we
certainly would value her insights and opinions. We certainly aren't
trying to muscle in on her territory, but just willing to lend a hand to
what is a daunting, gigantic challenge of finding and editing a LOT of
information.

Secondly, Michael can you coordinate with whoever is in charge of the
wiki software to include the plugin I mentioned last night:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML

One of my own agenda points as a wiki editor is to get an
offline-capable version of the wiki available for download to install on
the SD card -- perhaps we could even build it up as an opkg
documentation bundle or something. That'd be slick, with "opkg update &&
opkg upgrade" being able to upgrade the documentation on the phone.

> Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about 
> openmoko-wiki-editors?

Since "openmoko" is already in the domain name, perhaps just
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" would be sufficient?

-id


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Wiki editors (was: In the press)

[Michael Shiloh]

Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Well thats definitely a very nice proposal, but I would like to hold
>> off a bit on recreating a whole new wiki .. what I had in mind was
>> more of a blog/feed style site, not necessarily another wiki setup ..
> 
> As have been said before in this thread: what we (the Openmoko
> community) need is a wiki editors group.
> Any volunteers?
> The wiki editors group would help each other (and other contributors)
> to improve the wiki, by creating information management, writing and
> style guidelines, guiding and teaching wiki contributors, and editing
> the wiki itself.
> 
> Initially, the group could consist of the people most active in
> editing the wiki already. Further recruitment could be based on
> quality and quantity of contributions to the wiki.
> 
> Of course the Wiki editors would have a "hall of fame" page on the
> wiki that would describe the tasks that the group do, list the names
> of the editors (and perhaps what period they acted in that role?) and
> so on

(Please change the subject line to reflect the topic)

As Curtis said in a previous mail, we are a small company, and we need 
your help in maintaining the wiki. I think Torfinn's suggestion is an 
excellent one, and I appreciate his suggestion and the immediate 
volunteering of some 5-6 people.

I will help support you in any way I can. Yes, we can absolutely set up 
a mailing list for you to coordinate amongst yourselves. I will also 
make myself more immediately available to the wiki editors, so that 
questions can be answered as rapidly as possible.

Wiki editors, do you have a request for the list name? How about 
openmoko-wiki-editors?

This is very exciting. Many of us are frustrated by the wiki, but have 
lacked the time to fix it. I applaud you all.

Michael

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