subject:"Re\: Battery Lifetime"

 What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no  
 longer
 than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?

the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place  
where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it will  
never suspend.
btw: are there hooks to actions to be done on suspend/resume and a way to  
determine if the resume was caused by phone/pwrbutton or something else?

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Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
| longer
| than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
|
| the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
| where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
will
| never suspend.

Touchscreen is not a wake from suspend source, so as you suggest it
didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
goes to your bag.

| btw: are there hooks to actions to be done on suspend/resume and a way
to
| determine if the resume was caused by phone/pwrbutton or something else?

cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason

as I mentioned gives you the resume reason easily enough if you have
current U-Boot.  I think Carsten plans to have it done by D-Bus to talk
to this daemon.  But I am a bit doubtful this userspace-centric way is
going to be enough.

- -Andy
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Re: Battery Lifetime

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Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:
|
|
http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644
| bfdc4d7c03707a979e
|
| That's good to hear, thanks. Will this be in the latest daily build
along with
| the SD fix?

Yes although how much of fix the SD patches are is uncertain.  We have
reason to believe SD_CLK is implicated and that should help, but reports
from folks trying the patches are unclear about it.  I have another more
aggressive and uglier way to come at it if it isn't actually helping.
Anyway today's distribution build should have all that in FWIW.

| If you need this testing then point me at the images and let me know
what you
| need doing. My cell reregistrations seem to do a fair job of provoking
resume
| problems within a few hours on all the images I've tried so far.

I added some really nice diagnostic code in case of OOPS in resume it
will spew dmesg buffer down debug console regardless of resume state
(ie, it doesn't need serial driver resumed) so you can capture the OOPS
trace and resume context.  But nobody saw it triggered yet except me
when I tested it.  (BTW I added another recent patch so if we PANIC, we
flash the top LED, that doesn't happen either.)  So it seems somehow we
deadlock somewhere.  If I can reproduce it, I can debug it using very
gritty methods like moving around printk(); force OOPS or lighting LEDs
at different points... that's not really end user debug technique :-)
But thanks for the offer.

- -Andy
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Roland Mas

Andy Green, 2008-07-18 10:29:54 +0100 :

 Somebody in the thread at some point said:
 | What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
 | longer
 | than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
 |
 | the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
 | where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
 will
 | never suspend.

 Touchscreen is not a wake from suspend source, so as you suggest it
 didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
 world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
 goes to your bag.

The scenario, as I understand it, is this:
1. Freerunner gets into suspend (either manually or after some time);
2. Freerunner is put into bag;
3. GSM ping gets the phone out of suspend;
4. Freerunner is still in the bag (and you're walking to/from work),
so its touchscreen prevents further suspends.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Qu'est-ce qui est petit, jaune et vachement dangereux ?
Un canari avec le mot de passe de root.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Steven **

It seems I was a little too ambitious with this test.  I ran apm -s
and then went to bed.  I woke up to a spiffy dead battery less than 6
hours later.  :-/

-Steven

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 11:11 PM, Adam Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/

 Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
 every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
 wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
 Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
 will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
 only one who can get these numbers ;-)
 -Adam


 On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
 I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
 dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
 say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
 showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
 desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
 minutes or so).  apm showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
 apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
 standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.

 -Steven

 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  How are you doing this?
 
  If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
  nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
  Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
  to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
  suffer from this?
 
  I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
  What are you using?

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Re: Battery Lifetime

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Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Andy Green, 2008-07-18 10:29:54 +0100 :
|
| Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| | What's wrong with 100's of resumes / day, as long as each one takes no
| | longer
| | than 2~3sec, and is on low power profile?
| |
| | the screen becomes senstive to tapping -- and if your fr is in a place
| | where taps to the screen might occur frequently (say in your bag) it
| will
| | never suspend.
|
| Touchscreen is not a wake from suspend source, so as you suggest it
| didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.  Answer for that is in the X
| world, giving an easy way to get into suspend immediately if you know it
| goes to your bag.
|
| The scenario, as I understand it, is this:
| 1. Freerunner gets into suspend (either manually or after some time);
| 2. Freerunner is put into bag;
| 3. GSM ping gets the phone out of suspend;
| 4. Freerunner is still in the bag (and you're walking to/from work),
| so its touchscreen prevents further suspends.

You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.

- -Andy
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Re: Battery Lifetime

 You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
 GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
 Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.


is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom actions  
into? then, as a workaround, we could check what caused the resume and put  
it back to sleep immediately or at least disable the screen.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
  Touchscreen is not a wake from suspend source, so as you suggest it
  didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.
 
 not sure i understand you correctly, but several times i experience that  
 the fr, while seemingly in suspended state, answers to a screen tap  
 showing several console messages (whihte font, black background) and then  
 switching to the lock screen.
 
 otoh, what i meant was: when the fr frequently wakes up the screen becomes  
 sensitive and any tap would prevent the fr from going back to suspend --  
 so if in one of these moments of short resumes the screen ist tapped and  
 again and again the fr would never resume thus draining the battery  
 quickliy.

And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when we see 
a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC, 
powerbutton...)?
/j


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
  You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
  GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
  Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
 
 
 is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom actions  
 into? then, as a workaround, we could check what caused the resume and put  
 it back to sleep immediately or at least disable the screen.

That's what Carstens daemon is all about! ;-)
/j


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Re: Battery Lifetime

 And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when  
 we see
 a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC,
 powerbutton...)?


my question exactly.



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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Roland Mas

arne anka, 2008-07-18 15:09:01 +0200 :

 is there a way to detect when it wakes? a hook to plug custom
 actions into? 

You might try sticking a script in /etc/apm/resume.d, at least as a
first approach.

Roland.
-- 
Roland Mas

Certains disent que les vrais hommes ne font pas de backups.
Mais ils disent aussi que même les vrais hommes pleurent parfois.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Pomeroy Lab

I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my inbox 
each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been part of a lot of 
mailing lists and this one is too much.

Mathieu Rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
 Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
 eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
 silently once the wake reason was serviced.
should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
eg: echo 0  /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen 

maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy me 
for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
 


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Re: Battery Lifetime

 I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my  
 inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been  
 part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.

please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which  
both provide a forum-like gui.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen

Friday 18 July 2008 arne anka wrote:
  I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my
  inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been
  part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.

 please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
 else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which
 both provide a forum-like gui.

  Or, you know, use an email client which filters stuff and threads it... ;)

-- 
..Dan // Leinir..
http://www.leinir.dk/

  Co-
existence
  or no
existence

  - Piet Hein

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
 GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
 Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.

waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU and
being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake right now
regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)

do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Pomeroy Lab
[EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my inbox
 each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been part of a lot
 of mailing lists and this one is too much.

no - this has been discussed. we are not switching to forums - forums wont
REDUCE the traffic - it just puts the same content in a web page. it has also
been noted that MANY people will cease to participate if they now have to load
up a web browser and log into a forum and click away repeatedly waiting for
page reloads just to participate here. enable threading in your mail client and
use filters to filter out mail per mailing list into different inboxes to help
you cope. :(

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:12:45 +0200 Joerg Reisenweber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:

 Am Fr  18. Juli 2008 schrieb arne anka:
   Touchscreen is not a wake from suspend source, so as you suggest it
   didn't get to suspend to make this trouble.
  
  not sure i understand you correctly, but several times i experience that  
  the fr, while seemingly in suspended state, answers to a screen tap  
  showing several console messages (whihte font, black background) and then  
  switching to the lock screen.
  
  otoh, what i meant was: when the fr frequently wakes up the screen becomes  
  sensitive and any tap would prevent the fr from going back to suspend --  
  so if in one of these moments of short resumes the screen ist tapped and  
  again and again the fr would never resume thus draining the battery  
  quickliy.
 
 And what is it that stops us from disabling ts, just reenabling it when we
 see a valid wake-source to stay in user-land (e.g. inbound call, RTC, 
 powerbutton...)?

no kernel mechanism to power down ts (like you can power down bluetooth
for example)? :)

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
|
| You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
| GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
| Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
|
| waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
ASU and
| being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
right now
| regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
|
| do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)

Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
down /sys.

- -Andy

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Re: Battery Lifetime

 waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU  
 and
 being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake  
 right now
 regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)


how toolkit specific is that daemon?
i do use 2007.2 and would like to get that daemon, too.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:29:32 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Somebody in the thread at some point said:
 | On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
 |
 | You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
 | GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
 | Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
 |
 | waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
 ASU and
 | being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
 right now
 | regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
 |
 | do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)
 
 Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
 tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
 down /sys.

aaah - then it must be my forcing bl to on anyway (even tho its on) to keep
behavior if/when you change it... let me check.. when my build finishes.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Joachim Steiger

arne anka wrote:
 I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my  
 inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been  
 part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.
 
 please, check the archives and the wiki -- there are fora already.
 else you could follow the list through gmane or markmail (i think), which  
 both provide a forum-like gui.

please also test http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html

its a first test.
it allows browsing and searching
also it allows users which have an account at nabble and are subscribed
to the list also to post from there (haven't tested that yet)


this is not an extra forum but an additional view onto 4 of the
mailinglists:
- openmoko-community
- support
- devel
- hardware

if you like it, please speak up.


-- 

Joachim Steiger
Openmoko Central Services

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:34:05 +0200 arne anka [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

  waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in ASU  
  and
  being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake  
  right now
  regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
 
 
 how toolkit specific is that daemon?
 i do use 2007.2 and would like to get that daemon, too.

its a back-end dameon u talk to via dbus. it has no gui. i did use ecore and
libedbus to write it though... so it'll suck in parts of EFL as dependencies.

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

 please also test http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html

that's great -- another step towards an one-stop.
in opera it is rendered as an iframe to small to fit so the content needs  
scrolling -- but with firefox3 it is no iframe but simply cut off if the  
window is too small.
resizing the window and reload fixes it but the nabble javascript should  
be smart enough to check the size of the window and register resizing.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 00:36:53 +1000 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:29:32 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  Somebody in the thread at some point said:
  | On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:01:59 +0100 Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
  |
  | You and Arne are quite right, suspend is subject to random wakes from
  | GSM world too at the moment and that can lead to the same result.
  | Carsten wants to deal with wakes in his daemon so we're waiting on that.
  |
  | waiting on backlight to be left alone. daemon is done and already in
  ASU and
  | being used by both illume and qtopia. backlight will come on on wake
  right now
  | regardless until ompower (the daemon) changes its policy (code). :)
  |
  | do i detect a deadlock? (you wait for me,. i wait for you?) :)
  
  Are you sure?  Patch for this has been in stable for several days, and I
  tested it by setting level to 32 before and seeing 32 both visually and
  down /sys.
 
 aaah - then it must be my forcing bl to on anyway (even tho its on) to keep
 behavior if/when you change it... let me check.. when my build finishes.

yup. it's in. cool. now if resume reason worked... i'd be able to start being a
little smart on resume... :) (yes - i updated my u-boot last week or so). is
there some magic u-boot environment i need?

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Anders Bo Rasmussen

On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Pomeroy Lab wrote:
 I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up
 my inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've
 been part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.

You can read this mailing list through gmane.org with any newsreader you
like.

-- 
41 6E 64 65 72 73 


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Split the List was Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-18 Thread Scott Derrick

I agree, I think it should be split, its getting out of hand.

Hardware
Software Applications
Software Kernel/Boot
Administrator

etc

Scott

Pomeroy Lab wrote:
 I'm thinking of getting out of this mailing list because it fills up my 
 inbox each day. Can someone please create a forum instead. I've been 
 part of a lot of mailing lists and this one is too much.
 
 */Mathieu Rochette [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:
 
 
 
 On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace
 that should
 eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
 silently once the wake reason was serviced.
 
 
 should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
 eg: echo 0  /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen
 
 maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't
 annoy me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Ken Restivo

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:33:18AM -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
 dimlock != suspend   :-)
 If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
 down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
 ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
 the GMS modem, and ram. 
 



[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dbus-send --system --print-reply 
--dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer 
org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Suspend int32:0
Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Hal 
was not provided by any .service files

OK, what is the equiavelent to this for the ASU image?

-ken

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Kalle Happonen

Hi,
I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it 
does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes. 
Someone earlier wrote:

That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use suspend. It 
resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another chance to 
fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to reliably 
resume makes it an unreliable phone.


So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up 
from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know 
it's under development, just curious.

Cheers,
Kalle


Adam Talbot wrote:
 I am currently using the 20080716 build, from:
 http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200807/

 Try running the apm -s  That will suspend to ram. I do this by hand
 every time I want the phone to suspend. The power button, or a call will
 wake it.  Please keep in mind, suspend to ram is currently unstable.
 Just give it a 12~100 hour test, let me know. apm with out any arguments
 will give you the battery status.  None of this is any good if I am the
 only one who can get these numbers ;-)
 -Adam


 On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 21:35 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
   
 I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
 dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
 say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
 showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
 desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
 minutes or so).  apm showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
 apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
 standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.

 -Steven

 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 How are you doing this?

 If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
 nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
 Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
 to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
 suffer from this?

 I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
 What are you using?
   
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread arne anka

 Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
 to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else

dim+lock is supposed to wake only when you touch the power button, imo.

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Christoph Anton Mitterer

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 20:12 -0600, Scott Derrick wrote:
 you got a SD card plugged in?
Nope (due to our GPS issue ;) )


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Adam Talbot

apm -s
???
-Adam


On Thu, 2008-07-17 at 01:09 -0700, Ken Restivo wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:33:18AM -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
  dimlock != suspend   :-)
  If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
  down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
  ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
  the GMS modem, and ram. 
  
 
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~# dbus-send --system --print-reply 
 --dest=org.freedesktop.Hal /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer 
 org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Suspend int32:0
 Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.Hal 
 was not provided by any .service files
 
 OK, what is the equiavelent to this for the ASU image?
 
 -ken
 
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Re: Suspend Mode, was Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Hi,
|
| Am Mittwoch, den 16.07.2008, 13:17 -0600 schrieb Scott Derrick:
| Will the phone answer calls in suspend mode?  Get text messages?
|
| If I suspend I haven't turned it into a dumb brick right?
|
| I have successfully put my phone to sleep and then see it wake up by an
| incoming call that I could accept – so that works. I haven’t tested it
| often enough to say anything about reliability.

Just to give an idea of where the battery goes (this is current at battery):

~ ~190mA  running normally with backlight fully on
~  ~90mA  running normally with backlight off
~  10mA (typical avg over several seconds) suspend / GSM modem listening

- -Andy
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Q2gAn2ARNp35aV7rlUyX6AFZBiLiNCEJ
=rqlN
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:
| Hi,
| I just installed script, and made a menu command for it to see what it
| does to my battery. However, the phone wakes up inside a few minutes.
| Someone earlier wrote:
|
| That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use
suspend. It
| resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another
chance to
| fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to
reliably
| resume makes it an unreliable phone.
|
|
| So is the cell registration the problem? Is it normal that it wakes up
| from susped this often, which pretty much voids any benefits atm. I know
| it's under development, just curious.

In there kernel we can mark interrupt sources as capable to wake, but
there is no API at the moment to manage what happens to the waking
session.  I added a wake reason /sys file that if you have recent
U-Booy you can check like this:

cat /sys/devices/platform/neo1973-resume.0/resume_reason

Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
silently once the wake reason was serviced.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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15gAnjorEeW1rFROAq0EPwddf/7YpQS+
=Vb7h
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Andy Green

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Somebody in the thread at some point said:

| Subject to wakeups caused by cell reregistration this is true. This
isn't a
| complaint - keep reading ;-) It does a wake to full backlight too,
which is
| distracting and wastes power

Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:

http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644bfdc4d7c03707a979e

| Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
| does not solve.

Suspend per se is actually really quite stable (I sat here a few weeks
ago doing 100 in a row with no trouble) except for one issue, something
to do with certain GSM wakes getting in there first and deadlocking it
somehow in resume time. Unfortunately not for want of trying I can't
reproduce it here using my normal setup... which is why I know suspend
is otherwise really pretty stable on current kernels. I'll be looking
at it again very soon.

| That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use
suspend. It
| resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another
chance to
| fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to
reliably
| resume makes it an unreliable phone.

Yes, it's an issue. But it seems pretty certain this is just
software. Once we fix whatever the remaining issue is with
GSM-provoked (and that much is known, if you turn off GSM before suspend
you don't die in resume any more) resume deadlock and there is the wake
daemon this should eventually be OK.

- -Andy
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkh/smIACgkQOjLpvpq7dMpycwCdF1XBALEYeCqOp3GhRzmmGXYF
lmoAoJT7eL7w89qkdJFxWQLnc0O0k/xz
=204a
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Mathieu Rochette

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
 eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
 silently once the wake reason was serviced.


should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
eg: echo 0  /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen

maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy
me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Al Johnson

On Thursday 17 July 2008, Andy Green wrote:
 Somebody in the thread at some point said:
 | Subject to wakeups caused by cell reregistration this is true. This

 isn't a

 | complaint - keep reading ;-) It does a wake to full backlight too,

 which is

 | distracting and wastes power

 Backlight should be fixed for a couple of days now:

 http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commitdiff;h=db07519c1dfe916bcf9644
bfdc4d7c03707a979e

That's good to hear, thanks. Will this be in the latest daily build along with 
the SD fix? 

 | Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
 | does not solve.

 Suspend per se is actually really quite stable (I sat here a few weeks
 ago doing 100 in a row with no trouble) except for one issue, something
 to do with certain GSM wakes getting in there first and deadlocking it
 somehow in resume time.  Unfortunately not for want of trying I can't
 reproduce it here using my normal setup... which is why I know suspend
 is otherwise really pretty stable on current kernels.  I'll be looking
 at it again very soon.

If you need this testing then point me at the images and let me know what you 
need doing. My cell reregistrations seem to do a fair job of provoking resume 
problems within a few hours on all the images I've tried so far.

 | That's currently the crux of the problem, and why I don't yet use

 suspend. It

 | resumes on cell registration messages, and each resume is another

 chance to

 | fail. It also has to resume to accept a call, and not being able to

 reliably

 | resume makes it an unreliable phone.

 Yes, it's an issue.  But it seems pretty certain this is just
 software.  Once we fix whatever the remaining issue is with
 GSM-provoked (and that much is known, if you turn off GSM before suspend
 you don't die in resume any more) resume deadlock and there is the wake
 daemon this should eventually be OK.

That was the impression I had got from looking at the list archives, but it's 
nice to hear it confirmed. 

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-17 Thread Joerg Reisenweber

Am Do  17. Juli 2008 schrieb Mathieu Rochette:
 On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Andy Green [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
  Carsten has started on a daemon to handle wakes in userspace that should
  eventually parse this and figure out if it can go back to suspend
  silently once the wake reason was serviced.
 
 
 should it be possible to disable a reason prior to suspend?
 eg: echo 0  /sys/somewhere/reasons/touch_screen
 
 maybe there will still be some case that can't be handled (eg: don't annoy
 me for 2 hours) but I think that could cover mosts.
 

Of course this could be handled: just use RTC to resume after 2h of DND, and 
block all resume reasons you don't want to see FR wakes on during that time 
(or handle them stealth mode with the upcoming deamon Carsten is about to 
write).
/j


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Scott Derrick

Ken,

I'm looking for possible solutions or areas to investigate. 

When my FR's arrive I was going to investigate this area, but wondered 
how easy it would be without a debug board..

Scott

Ken Restivo wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 08:19:38PM -0600, Scott Derrick wrote:
   
 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people 
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll 
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far 
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see 
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!  
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of 
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept 
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't 
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is 
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?

 

 I wasn't sure if you were looking for solutions or just wanted to vent, but 
 yeah, the battery lifetime is pretty anemic.

 I was going to ask what was the duty cycle of that USB connector on the 
 phone, since I find myself constantly plugging it in and unplugging it. Kind 
 of like I used to do with my old Palm III back a decade ago, because if you 
 let the battery wear down then you lost all your data (talk about design 
 flaws... that was an awful one...).

 Another thing I noticed was that when I pull the phone out of its little 
 neoprene condom, it almost always is lit up and not in sleep mode, and it 
 also almost always has the Diversity app running (I have no idea why). 
 Apparently the touchscreen is getting bumped and keeps waking it up when its 
 trying to sleep. 

 But one of the solutions may be possible to do in software: make the lock 
 (aux?) button dim the screen AND put the thing into low-power standby, and do 
 NOT allow any stray rubbing up against the touchscreen to wake up the phone 
 from sleep.

 Any ideas how hard it might be to do that, or where in the software it'd need 
 to happen (i.e. userspace, kernel, uboot, etc.)?

 -ken

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Scott Derrick

Wow thats fantastic!  First I have heard.

Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry.

Scott

Adam Talbot wrote:
 This is all with my FreeRunner.
 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
 like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
 out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
 management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
 many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
 a working SIM to test wake up on call.

 Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
 module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?

 On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 22:26 -0500, Steven ** wrote:
   
 Last I read, they were getting like 100 hours standby with the new
 suspend/resume functionality.  I don't know if there's an image that
 has those changes available though.  It's not a hardware issue...

 -Steven

 On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime people
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?

 Scott

 --

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Re: Battery Lifetime

This is how I do it.
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 14:50 +0200, arne anka wrote:
  Wow thats fantastic!  First I have heard.
 
  Gladly I will admit to raising a non-issue, sorry.
 
 i absolutely don't think it is a non-issue -- on the contrary!
 besides tony tu from openmoko he is the only one claiming to get a  
 lifetime of 100h or more.
 i'd pretty much like to know how he does that.
 
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread arne anka

 This is how I do it.
 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata

read it already, but that should basically be the same as dimlock,  
shouldn't it?

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Re: Battery Lifetime

dimlock != suspend   :-)
If the screen is off, the system is still fully running, and sucking
down power.  When you suspend, all running processes are cashed into
ram, then the rest of the hardware is turned off, with the exception of
the GMS modem, and ram. 

Check out the S3 state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface
-Adam



On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:15 +0200, arne anka wrote:
  This is how I do it.
  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User:Nomeata
 
 read it already, but that should basically be the same as dimlock,  
 shouldn't it?
 
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread arne anka

 dimlock != suspend   :-)

i learned yesterday that

dimlock == suspend

and the messages scrolling over the screen before the lock screen comes  
back when [pressing pwr | incoming call | fr wakes up frequently] prove  
that imho.

dim!lock != suspend



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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Kalle Happonen

thomasg wrote:
 Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
 Complete bullshit.
Which of this? I agree with Scott, well, in a more understanding, and 
smiling way but still. I took the phone from the charger this morning, 
and it's almost dead now at the end of the workday, without me having 
used it at all. But I know there's work on improving this, and some nice 
results too, and I'm ok with this now. For real use, the current battery 
life just doesn't work in most cases.

As for the other stuff in the mail, people have been fighting with sim 
cards, gsm (o/), gps (o/).

But not to worry, improvement is on the way, and the speed that this 
moves on with the openmoko team and the community, I'm pretty sure this 
(and most other issues) will be solved sooner than later.


 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery lifetime
 people
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit to
 accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I seriously
 can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using software?

 Scott

 --

 -
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will
 within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do
 not add within the limits of the law, because law is often but
 the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of
 the individual.

Thomas Jefferson


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Re: Battery Lifetime

I am not sure what you are referring to as bullshit.  I have a
FreeRunner, and am getting about 7 days of run time from it.  In the
last 10days, sense I got it, I have only needed to charge it once. If
you think this is crap, then prove me wrong!  Log into your FR and
execute an 'apm -s'.  Give it 24 hours then hit the power button.  It
should come up in about 2 seconds, then check you battery health.  If
you want exact numbers run 'apm'.   I open this challenge up to every
one.  What are your number for a 24 hours suspend?  Battery
before/after.

Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
does not solve.
-Adam
P.S.  Stop complaining and start helping.

On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:51 +0200, thomasg wrote:
 Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
 Complete bullshit.
 
 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery
 lifetime people
 are seeing?
 
 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large
 poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1
 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want
 to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.
 
 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of
 standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8
 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.
 
 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit
 to accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I
 seriously can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery
 life.
 
 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in
 that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using
 software?
 
 Scott
 
 --
 
 -
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our
 will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of
 others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because
 law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
 violates the rights of the individual.
 
Thomas Jefferson
 
 
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Yorick Moko

my freerunner will arrive this week, but don't worry, i'm a true believer :)

maybe it would help if there was standard a button to click on to
suspend the phone (maybe label it Suspend(Bèta)) because it seems most
people are not aware of something other than dimlock


On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 5:09 PM, Adam Talbot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure what you are referring to as bullshit.  I have a
 FreeRunner, and am getting about 7 days of run time from it.  In the
 last 10days, sense I got it, I have only needed to charge it once. If
 you think this is crap, then prove me wrong!  Log into your FR and
 execute an 'apm -s'.  Give it 24 hours then hit the power button.  It
 should come up in about 2 seconds, then check you battery health.  If
 you want exact numbers run 'apm'.   I open this challenge up to every
 one.  What are your number for a 24 hours suspend?  Battery
 before/after.

 Yes, suspend is unstable, it does not always wake, but nothing a reboot
 does not solve.
 -Adam
 P.S.  Stop complaining and start helping.

 On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 16:51 +0200, thomasg wrote:
 Where ever you think you might have heard this: it's bullshit.
 Complete bullshit.

 On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Scott Derrick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 I'm amazed that more isn't being said about the battery
 lifetime people
 are seeing?

 I just read an article in Information Week that cited a large
 poll
 concerning users of mobile devices.  What was the number 1
 issue, far
 and above any other issue people are concerned about and want
 to see
 improvement.  Yes, battery life.

 The times I've seen posted here are pathetic!  8 hours of
 standby!
 Christ, my MotoQ has almost 8 hours of active phone time!  8
 hours of
 standby makes the FR a toy at best.

 I realize that a lot of people are just trying to get the unit
 to accept
 a sim card, or make a call,  get a gps fix, etc..  But I
 seriously can't
 use it as anything but a desk toy with that kind of battery
 life.

 Is there an ACPI or some other kind of power monitor built in
 that is
 granular enough for somebody to work on this problem using
 software?

 Scott

 --

 -
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our
 will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of
 others. I do not add within the limits of the law, because
 law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it
 violates the rights of the individual.

Thomas Jefferson


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 community@lists.openmoko.org
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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread ian douglas

Yorick Moko wrote:
 maybe it would help if there was standard a button to click on to
 suspend the phone (maybe label it Suspend(Bèta)) because it seems most
 people are not aware of something other than dimlock


If someone's going to get into adding buttons:
Our group last night agreed having a 'reboot' button would be nice too,
instead of just the 'shutdown' button and having to manually re-power
the phone.

-id

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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Scott Derrick

Chris,

you got a SD card plugged in?

Scott

Christoph Anton Mitterer wrote:
 How are you doing this?

 If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
 nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
 Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
 to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
 suffer from this?

 I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
 What are you using?

 On Tue, 2008-07-15 at 21:29 -0700, Adam Talbot wrote:
   
 This is all with my FreeRunner.
 144 hours, to be exact. Or, about 6 days of stand by time.  Something
 like 4 hours of active talk time. Looks like you could get 8 days and 5
 of talk, but I like every thing turned on. I have GPS running, but with
 out an SD card ;-).  Currently using the built in APM for power
 management. Keep in mind suspend/resume is unstable.  As I have seen
 many times.  Still working on squashing the bugs. Currently do not have
 a working SIM to test wake up on call.

 Is there a way to stop the screen bumping issue?  Perhaps unload the
 module that runs the touchscreen until there is a wake event (Auk key)?
 
 

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-- 

-
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits 
drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add within the limits 
of the law, because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it 
violates the rights of the individual.

Thomas Jefferson 


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Re: Battery Lifetime

2008-07-16 Thread Steven **

I too am using the 2007.2 image upgraded.  But I have no problem with
dim+lock.  I haven't had my FreeRunner for long enough to definitively
say how long the battery will last.  But I had it at work today,
showing it off several times.  The remaining time it mostly sat on my
desk with dim+lock (I picked it up and played with something every 30
minutes or so).  apm showed 61% at the end of the work day.  Perhaps
apm isn't accurate, but it would imply I could get quite a lot of
standby time if I truly left the Freerunner alone.

-Steven

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:24 PM, Christoph Anton Mitterer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 How are you doing this?

 If I fully charge my GTA02 battery before I go to bed,.. it will be
 nearly empty when I wake up (I seep 7-8 hours),...
 Dim+nolock is choosen, as dim+lock seems to crash the device and I have
 to remove the battery to reboot (nothing else works). Does anybody else
 suffer from this?

 I'm using the 2007.2 image with everything upgraded...
 What are you using?

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Re: Battery Lifetime